Pre 2 Now Available in Canada From Rogers

palm pre 2 unlocked Coming in as a very pleasant holiday surprise to our Canadian friends, the Pre 2 is now available from Rogers. This move is not entirely unexpected, as last month we discussed the arrival of Pre 2 dummy units in Rogers retail stores. Interestingly enough, as of this writing, Palm Canada's website makes no reference to Pre 2 availability, though the Rogers' Pre 2 page is now live and HP Canada mentions the Rogers Pre 2. This launch marks the first time a carrier-supported and subsidized Pre 2 has been made available in North America.

Spec-wise, this Pre 2 is identical to the existing SFR and unlocked GSM versions, with pricing for the Rogers Pre 2 Rogers at $99.99 Canadian on a 3-year contract, $349.99 on a 2-year contract and $399 on a one-year contract. Interestingly, device is also $399.99 on a contract-free, month-to-month plan as well.

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VampireLestat @ 12/21/2010 11:26:18 PM # Q
That was quick!
RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/21/2010 11:27:49 PM # Q
Wait a second here... what's this 399$... contract month by month... checking.
RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/21/2010 11:34:38 PM # Q
and of course, already run into a problem:
Rogers site is only allowing me to choose between their 99$ 3 year contract and their349$ 2 year contract.

So where did PIC find the 449$ (just buy the phone) deal?

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/21/2010 11:39:46 PM # Q
hey this is strange, ealier on my first verification I saw alongside the 2 contract plans, a mention "no contract 449$ cdn" (it was not clickable). But now, that reference is completely gone.

Are they simply updating the site right now at 2h30 or is Rogers planning not to sell it without a contract.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/21/2010 11:47:14 PM # Q
Palm USA site shows in network specs:
"Unlocked. Dual-band UMTS/HSDPA (850/1900 MHz)Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)"

Palm Canada shows:
"Network specs GSM"

This phone is not even unlocked! :(

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/22/2010 12:01:31 AM # Q
From what I can tell, the Pre2 in Canada is a Rogers "subsidy lock" phone.

Well that's it for me folks. My quick reconsideration of Palm is yet again over. And since I can't even "smuggle" an unlocked pre 2 into Canada via (they ban shipping outside US), "It's over Johnny".

The People have to pass legislation to put a stop to these oligopoly phone carrier practices.

Gekko, I am now shopping for an Android. You were right after all.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/22/2010 12:03:15 AM # Q
and to Palm AND HP, I hate you BOTH now.
RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/22/2010 8:23:23 AM # Q

who is your preferred wireless carrier?

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/22/2010 11:58:23 AM # Q
I only use a cell for emergency calls and for times like when I go on a trip. So I only use a 10$ Fido prepaid monthly service.

Fido is GSM and owned by Rogers now I think.
But even if Im forced into using Rogers indirectly, the point is that locking a device is wrong. Allowing that sends a message to other companies that it is OK to bypass competition rules. For the end user, we end up with phones that are harder to resell, we end up in situations were we forced to renew with the same carrier for fear of having to buy a new phone, people who travel end up having to pay expensive roaming fees.

Carriers need to be forced to split up. They are too strong, and this Pre 2 "subsidy-lock" test the waters kind of phone has to be struck down right away.

Why would Palm and HP even allow this? I don't see how much subsidization this Pre 2 could have gotten as the full 449$ price with a sim-lock monthly plan is even more expensive than the un-subsidized USA phone.

No, this is a classic case of market abuse.

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/22/2010 2:32:56 PM # Q

unless you want to pay $50/month for a smartphone voice + data package - maybe your best bet is just to simply buy a new iPod Touch and use it on WIFI which will at least bring you into the current decade albeit kicking and screaming.

otherwise - maybe get the Samsung Galaxy S Captivate from Rogers for $99 with the minimum $50/month voice + data plan.

ubiquitous data is a beautiful thing - if not a necessity - today.

RE: Shock
richf @ 12/22/2010 2:55:46 PM # Q
Vam--welcome to the real world. Adapt and survive. Under the current conditions big corporations are allowed to rob and screw the middle class for all they're worth. I know it's not right but its been that way all the time I've been on this crooked earth.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
RE: Shock
hkklife @ 12/22/2010 9:20:42 PM # Q
Vamp, Gekko's advice is sound. iPod Touch is the "safe" bet but you cannot rule out an Android-based non phone device.

Advantages of iPod Touch:
-Great screen resolution
-Great build quality
-Fast performance and up to 64gb internal storage
-TONS of add-on apps, peripherals, community support etc.
-Guaranteed OS updates and stability from Apple
-Good (not great, but decent) native PIM apps

Cons (The usual Apple product woes):
-No expandable storagem, especially at that resolution
-3.5" screen is a joke in 2010 and 2011
-The usual reliance on iTunes and Apple's walled garden
-Fixed battery (not user-replacable)
-Camera still image quality & resolution leaves much to be desired

Another option would be something like the Archos 43 "Internet Tablet" (essentially a 4.3" PDA or smartphone without cellular connectivity).

Advantages of the Archos:
-Expandable storage
-HDMI output
-USB host port
-Access Software's Graffiti software is available for Android (though it may not run on this kind of unsupported hardware)
-MUCH more hackable/tweakable than iOS devices. Endless possibilities for OS updates/custom ROMs etc if the hacker community rallies around this device
-Cheaper than any iPod Touch
-Better codec/file format support than iOS devices
-More cloud-centric due to Android, no mandatory desktop software component
-USB mass storage plug & play. Drag & drop your files without any silly DRM or iTunes foolishness
-Better quality still images (2mp)

Cons of the Archos:
-Flimsy build quality
-Resistive screen & no multitouch
-Questionable support in the future from Archos
-Quality of touchscreen, LCD, audio outpu etc not up to par with iPod Touch
-Android 2.x is less polished, less intuitive, and less stable and buggier than iOS 4.x
-Horrible native PIM apps
-Incompatible with some Android smartphone apps
-No official compatibility with Android Market or Google apps
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/22/2010 10:14:50 PM # Q
Actually I already own the new 4th gen ipod Touch.
I bought it with with 64GB and had it engraved on the back with "Star Trek"

I love it.

I considered the Pre 2 because it has GPS and I would like to have the cell for emergency calls just in case.

Anyway, back to my old way, I will keep on using my iTouch, TX and Treo 680. I have a few days off around Christmas so I will use those day to surf the web and see if I can find an unlocked GSM Android.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/22/2010 10:16:43 PM # Q
thanks for the details pros and cons list.
RE: Shock
ChiA @ 12/25/2010 5:59:27 AM # Q
Vamps is there someone you can arrange with south of the border to receive/purchase the unlocked Pre2 and then you collect or they forward it on to you? Is it worth your using one of those forwarding companies? True, it's extra hassle but it's a way around the Palm Canada's shortcomings.
RE: Shock
ChiA @ 12/25/2010 6:09:35 AM # Q
Vamps I thought I'd go straight to the horse's mouth and look on HP Canada's website where I found a tantalising link:

Couldn't see any means of purchasing though.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/25/2010 2:22:52 PM # Q
Hi cHia,

Thanks for the tip. Definitely an interesting development.
The price of 520.55$ implies a non-Rogers phone.
I will wait a little longer before deciding on a device (Android vs wOS).
I can see how Palm would be forced into carrier slavery, but I find it hard to believe HP would also be in that position with all its retail shelf space. If HP wanted to they could just sell sell unlocked GSM phones at any retailer (BestBuy, FutureShop, etc).

If the Pre 2, because of deals already signed with Rogers, cannot be unlocked in Canada, then perhaps the next HPalm device will be unrestricted.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/25/2010 2:31:36 PM # Q
under the specifications tab it shows:
"Service Provider Rogers"

So chances are it will never be unlocked.

ps. 3rd party resellers to ship a USA Pre 2 to Canada is a hassle and my take is that if HP does not want to or cannot sell an unlocked mobile device in Canada, then I should simply not buy anything from them. A smartphone is a luxury not a necessity. I will either buy from some other product which is unlocked, or I will simply hand onto my 1000$ and earn interest on it at the bank.

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/25/2010 4:44:53 PM # Q

why would you want to be trapped on some closed, tiny, proprietary, dying, barren island all by yourself? are you a masochist?

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/25/2010 11:25:27 PM # Q
I think
1) I used to like Palm, still use Palm. The Pre2 looks nice, has the hw I want.
2) I always had good experiences when buying HP products.
3) I am unfamiliar with android.
4) 1000$ (taxes, shipping, extras) is a lot of $ and I don't want to risk high by going with a new OS I have never touched before, and buying from Samsung/HTC, companies I never bought from before. Before I do, I will be scared that there are little hardware problems for which the only way I can learn about is reading a lot on various forums; which means using my time studying (con).

That being said, the GSM not being locked is a "no go" for me. Question for me now is, do I wait for the next HPalm device, or jump into Android in January, even if blindly.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/25/2010 11:27:47 PM # Q
My leaning right now is
~80% Android
~20% Next HPalm device
RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/25/2010 11:38:24 PM # Q
Another thing holding me back from Android is that Gingerbread has features I want and no device has Gingerbread installed. And it is not clear to me if all devices can be easily and openly be flash upgraded to Ginger.

If the OS is hardcoded/tied to device, and its not like Linux/Windows, then that is a con. HP offered the WebOS 2 upgrade to everyone, I don't know the Android culture of OS upgrades. Back in the old Palm days I seem to recall we could flash upgrade our devices regularly, I want that back.

Less vendor control and more for us.

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/25/2010 11:41:47 PM # Q
Notice how in 2010 devices are often not upgradable, and if it is, the carrier can dictate the when and what of the OS upgrade; phones are locked, contracts pushed, and even the online app stores are a form of control.

I don't like it.

RE: Shock
abosco @ 12/26/2010 7:11:55 AM # M Q
If you're worried about obsolescence, then Android may not be your best bet. I still advocate the iPhone - predictable upgrade cycles and the most support of all smartphones.

As far as contracts go, Americans have shown great demand for subsidized phones. The original iPhone was $600 with a $20 monthly data plan including text. The next year, the iPhone 3G was subsidized and cost $300 with a $30 monthly data charge PLUS another text plan. The subsidized phone was cheaper, but people didn't care. They thought it was a price drop because they had to pay $600, and now it's only $300.

The telecoms don't have to be broken up. There are more than enough options out there for smartphones from the big four companies in the US, plus tons of prepaid and value wireless companies. More government is not the answer.

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/26/2010 12:09:35 PM # Q

V.B. -

1. what are you talking about $1,000? that Samsung you posted looks to be about $569.

2. most if not all of the newer Android phones will get Gingerbread. what are the Gingerbread features that you want so bad? you could always get the Nexus One or the Nexus S true "Google" phone which immediately get the new update upon release but you are obviously limited by the compatibility with Canadian carriers as well as availability. Eclair and Froyo are not slouches. i mean - come on! you're coming from a friggin Palm Pilot!!!

3. if you already have an iPod Touch - so you already know the devil you're dealing with. but what are your personal reasons for not considering an iPhone?

bosco - IMO - if you want choice, freedom, openness, and the ability to customize and tweak your phone any way you like it - you choose Android. this means size, form factor, carrier, manufacturer, software, ecosystem, settings, etc.

RE: Shock
hkklife @ 12/26/2010 2:32:39 PM # Q
Gingerbread will be a nice interim upgrade (basically addressing most of Froyo's glaring bugs) but Honeycomb and beyond, IMHO, is when we will really start seeing Android to be a polished-looking OS.

Your best bet of avoiding obsolesence is to buy the newest, highest-end unlocked GSM Android handset from HTC come 2011. I am thinking something announced at CES and widely available a few months later will be your ticket.

As far as migrating from Palm OS, well, I was in a similar boat as you in November of 2009. I was using a Moto RAZR2 flipphone + a Treo 755p (data service only). I moved my main voice line to a Moto Droid on launch day, but kept the Treo for email & PIM purposes. I carried those 2 devices together until April or so, when I finally cut the Palm OS cord completely and dropped the 2nd line and went with the Droid as my only device. I then upgraded to a Droid X a few months ago. It's still far from perfect but it's "good enough". I still have my two Palm TXs around for legacy PIM/PIC purposes, plus the occasional game of Bejeweled 2 or Rook's Revenge or whatnot.

In hindsight, I almost wish I had just blown up all of my old contacts and started fresh from scratch. The vast majority of my Palm OS Calendar events didn't transition to Google Calendar and lots of my contact fields became corrupted. Additionally, the shitty Moto Blur layer denies you the VERY BASIC step of sorting contacts by last name, first name. Hello? I've done this on Palm OS since 1996! And even more bizarrely, stock Froyo on my Droid 1 allows this but Motorola has seen fit to remove this option.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Shock
richf @ 12/26/2010 3:19:01 PM # Q
I agree with all you guys but I think you're overlooking my most important feature of Android. Since Graffiti came to Android this makes it the best all around os. There is no better, bar none, input method than Graffiti.

Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus

RE: Shock
VampireLestat @ 12/27/2010 4:53:32 AM # Q

Grafitti requires a classic high density screen (not like today's iPhone low density for finger swipes).

Do all Android phones have high density (don't confuse with hires) screens capable of using a stylus?

RE: Shock
richf @ 12/28/2010 12:20:09 PM # Q
Vam, you don't need a stylus. Graffiti for Android is finger input and works as well as a stylus with a Palm. I think it is great. If you should get an Android device you should at least try it. It will out perform a device keyboard, virtual or hardware. Just make sure it is the Access generated one.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/28/2010 6:12:36 PM # Q

Graffiti is an ancient, slow, and inferior technology that is clung on to by nostalgia-loving dinosaurs. if you want an alternative to a traditional keyboard - Swype is the way to go.

i just use the regular keyboard because i'm not out there trying to save the world.


RE: Shock
gmayhak @ 12/28/2010 7:29:23 PM # Q
Gekko, as usual, you're so FOS. How the hell do you think rubbing your finger around on a keyboard is superior to easy to learn handwriting? Can you do that without looking? That isn't new technology, it was available for Palms and it sucked.
Just thought I'd chime in, go ahead with the grandpa cuts, sonny ;-)

Tech Center Labs

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/29/2010 4:08:27 AM # Q

it's faster to use, grandpa. if Graffiti was superior, everyone would be using it.

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/30/2010 11:38:27 AM # Q

i would like to see a rundown of the old PIC gang and to see what everyone is using now. my guess is -

45% - Android
45% - iPhone
9% - PalmOS

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/30/2010 11:40:03 AM # Q

1% PalmOS and "Other"

RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/30/2010 11:40:56 AM # Q

damn it - i meant -

1% webOS and "Other"


RE: Shock
BaalthazaaR @ 12/30/2010 12:15:50 PM # Q
Sorry to disappoint, but I'm still using my GarnetOS Palm TX. Very close to switching to a Droid X, I just can't seem to stop carrying the TX.
RE: Shock
Gekko @ 12/30/2010 1:22:28 PM # Q

you're not disappointing here. you're falling right into my 9% foolish-nostalgic-masochist-dinosaur demographic.

RE: Shock
hkklife @ 12/30/2010 1:34:32 PM # Q
Primary phone/platform: Motorola Droid X (Android 2.2)

Primary non-phone device: iPod Touch 8gb (iOS 4.2) Basically for comparing iOS versions of apps to Android apps, iOS-exclusive apps/games and testing Ryan's latest stuff.

Secondary non-phone device: Palm TX (for PIM/PIC/nostalgia purposes)

Tertiary non-phone device: iPod Classic 160gb. Used for music and ONLY music playback.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Shock
gmayhak @ 12/30/2010 8:17:47 PM # Q
Congrats on the Touch Kris! Here's my list...
Primary phone: landline
Primary non-phone device: toss-up between iPad and iPod Touch (retina display is amazing). Use for app development / testing, netflix, radio, youtube, music and almost everything else.
Nostalgic devices: Centro, TX, a dozen NOS PVx (black IBM version). Use to test hardware and play with my old apps.
Tech Center Labs
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Soon to be law

VampireLestat @ 12/22/2010 12:48:42 AM # Q
On June 17, 2010, Member of Parliament Bruce Hyer (Thunder Bay-Superior North) introduced Private Member's Bill C-560,[15] called the Cell Phone Freedom Act, which would prohibit carriers from selling SIM locked phones in Canada without first informing the consumer of the existence of such a lock. C-560 bill additionally mandates that phone companies selling new phones must unlock customer phones, without charge, at the end of contract or upon purchase of phone outright, when requested by the customer.

On December 15, 2010, Rogers Communications announced they would start offering to unlock all customers handsets (including the iPhone) for a flat fee of $50, in response to public pressure on the issue. The other two major national carriers, Bell and Telus, have yet to respond.

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