Bug With Adjusting the m515 Sidelight?

Posted By: Ed Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:44:55 AM

As part of adjusting the sidelight on an m515, the user opens a dialog box that covers the lower half of the screen. Unfortunately, it seems that Palm programmers forgot to include a "refresh" command after closing this box. Many programs do it themselves, however many others don't. This means that after tapping the "Done" option, the top half of the screen will still display the original application, while the lower half, where the sidelight box was, is white.

A bit of research found that this problem occurs in Handmark Monopoly, Qualcomm's Eudora, and others.

The screen can be refreshed by tapping on another app -- the clock for example -- and returning to the original screen.

Thanks to Adam Zeit from Palmi for discovering this bug and doing the research. -Ed

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Can Not Duplicate

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:02:24 AM #
I have that Software on a M515.
I can not duplicate the problem

RE: Can Not Duplicate
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:04:56 AM #
What do you mean by "that Software"? Monopoly?

RE: Can Not Duplicate
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:38:11 AM #
Hmmm...can't duplicate this bug using Monopoly.

RE: Can Not Duplicate
PDA @ 3/20/2002 11:20:29 AM #
Add my m515 and Monopoly to the list that work just fine with the Brightness dialog.

RE: Can Not Duplicate
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 11:31:13 AM #
The same happens with MegaLauncher and others.

RE: Can Not Duplicate
Altema @ 3/20/2002 11:33:55 AM #
Ditto here. Have M515 and Handmark Monopoly. No problem. Matter of fact I've never had any problem with any app, even interrrupting movie clips and images.

RE: Can Not Duplicate
Rolando @ 3/20/2002 11:51:36 AM #
Seems like a report like this should have been confirmed by forum users before posting it here on the main page, as "News."

Obviously, there's more to the story than initially reported, but since it's posted as "News" folks might read the headline and never move on to the comments, where, so far, no one can repeat the problem.

That was a really long sentence, huh? Whew!

Anyway, those are my feelings on the subject.

Thank you for listening...

Rolando
Sony N610C owner

RE: Can Not Duplicate
SPtheALIEN @ 3/20/2002 1:38:04 PM #
Actually, while I do not own the m515 (I own a Clie 760), I can vouch for Monopoly lacking a refresh feature. When I operate my PDA in forced-hi res mode, Monopoly's card pieces overlap in the top left corner and upon completion, leave a blank white spot in the corner.

Anyway, this is still news. When it affects people (no matter the number), it should be publicized. If it doesn't affect you--that's cool. If it does, then thank PalmInfocenter for bringing it in the spotlight where people can hopefully make workarounds now that it has been publicized.

RE: Can Not Duplicate
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 3:17:15 PM #
Uh, did you ever think that Monopoly doesnt run in 320x320 mode?

These programs have to be programmed to be compatable with 320x320. Disable monopoly in the enable high res feature and see what happens.

AND as a N760C owner, let me tell all of the other Sony color handheld owners to bail out of this discussion.

We have no business here.

RE: Can Not Duplicate
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 4:02:31 PM #
Wait, I thought this is the M515 issue, not any other Palm-based devices, right?

RE: Can Not Duplicate
Ed @ 3/20/2002 4:09:18 PM #
> Seems like a report like this should have been confirmed by forum users
> before posting it here on the main page, as "News."

We tried to get feedback on it in the forums and failed. Adam posted a topic on it yesterday and it immediately went off topic. No one either confirmed or denied it.
www.palminfocenter.com/forum/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=4199

It was definitely happening on the the devices Adam tested so I decided to go with it. Obviously it doesn't happen to everyone but it is to some, which is the way bugs work sometimes.

---
News Editor

Sounds like an application error to me..

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:18:37 AM #
Theres two ways this can be; either the OS doens't send a form-update to the applications after it closes the brightness, or the applications don't have a form-update event. Since it works with some applications, but not others, I would bet its an application error. Something like Monopoly grabs most of the events for itself, so it probably doesn't expect new events.. like a brightness control.

So its probably nothing to do with Palm.. just shoddy programming by the application developer.

RE: Sounds like an application error to me..
JeffL @ 3/20/2002 2:34:32 PM #
I have to agree here, this is shoddy programing. The programmer(s) of the game should know to refresh the screen even if a hack or something pops over the screen tries to refresh the running apps screen itself. In other words, an alarm will not leave the white space because when you press ok the PalmOS calls a refresh to the app, but the app should still refresh anyway. It may not be efficient but there are ways to work around that, but of course this isn't a programming forum...

-------
Jeff L.

Could it be...

PIC mobile user @ 3/20/2002 10:44:18 AM #
...that this could indicate that some M515s out there could be faulty?
RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:55:43 AM #
Could be...because I've tried this several times using Monopoly and it's refreshing just fine.

RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 11:18:42 AM #
Could it be that one of them is faulty?

RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 11:39:27 AM #
But it happens with a few apps, some of them behave well which makes me think it´s not an OS issue.

RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 12:00:42 PM #
could it be a problem with one person's Palm? How much research into this was done? Maybe an installed Hack is causing the problem.

Unless there are multiple instances of this "problem", this shouldn't be posted as a news story.

RE: Could it be...
Liljeberg @ 3/20/2002 12:21:15 PM #
Well, I have it in Eudora, Bejeweled and some other applications. Haven't bothered me much yet...I don't change the backlight very often.

RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 12:32:26 PM #
"Well, I have it in Eudora, Bejeweled and some other applications."


Does this problem also occur with the Find dialog? (Also a non-application system dialog).

RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 12:48:17 PM #
Could it be that those of you saying it shouldn't be posted did not notice the question mark at the end of the headline?

RE: Could it be...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 1:24:10 PM #
Ed-

Did you edit the article since it was first published this morning, taking out the part, with something to the effect of, "Palm will have to release a patch for this?"

I thought I saw that at the end of the article this morning. It just seemed like after such a bold article, which finished with Palm having to release a patch, that the article has now morphed into this potential-bug-description-without-as-much-research-as-Adam Zeit-thought er something.

It's no big deal I guess. That's why we come to the site; To read what's happenin. Major news sources incorrectly tallied states during the last election, and then withdrew, so...it happens to the best of em.


No such problem on my m515.

dúnadan @ 3/20/2002 12:22:31 PM #
> 100 different apps run and never had that problem.

www.CLIEsource.com

The reason this only shows up on some devices

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 1:06:55 PM #
This is only speculation, as I haven't seen the bug either, but I would guess that the applications which are affected aren't properly handling the form-update event sent by the system.
The reason this only affects some devices is because the form-update event is only sent under certain conditions:
Normally, when the system puts up a dialog, it saves the portion of the screen that is obscured, and restores it automatically when the dialog goes away - it doesn't bother to send the form-update because the screen's already been redrawn. If the system can't allocate the memory to save the obscured screen area, only then will it send a form-update event to the application, to let it know it must manually redraw the screen.
I suspect that the people who've seen this bug may have hacks or system patches installed - while the patches aren't a problem by themselves, when they are run with applications which use up alot of their own memory (such as these graphics-intensive games) which also don't handle the form-update event, the redraw problem will occur.

Why it doesn't always happen

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 3:28:24 PM #
I agree that the problem appears to be that the application isn't handling frmUpdateEvent properly. One reason why you don't always see it is because of available memory - if there is enough memory, the OS will make a copy of the covered portion of the screen and restore it after the dialog goes away. With the m515's 16-bit display, it takes more memory to make this copy, and there may not be enough free space to do so when running large applications like Monopoly.

Backlighting for graffiti space?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 3:59:52 PM #
I recently replaced my m505 with a m515. I noticed that the m515 no longer has the backlighting under my grafitti section! Did anyone else find this as well?

RE: Backlighting for graffiti space?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 4:16:44 PM #
Yes, one of the ways they made the backlight brighter was by moving it up to the top of the grafitti area.

Wow! My *Sony Clie* doesn't do that!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 5:21:54 PM #
sorry... couldn't resist ;-)

Some failing apps

IanJD @ 3/20/2002 6:48:59 PM #
Can't speak for Monopoly, but I have this problem on my EFIGS m515 on a few apps, including Avantgo, Eudora Mail, Lemmings, PalmVNC, Omniremote 1.2 beta, McFile 1.12, and Route. More irritating than problematic, though.

Stuck Pixel

PIC mobile user @ 3/21/2002 12:17:54 AM #
I have a new 515 as of last week and noticed a pixel out, it is replacing my 505. The dead pixel is in the middle. Is there anything I can do? Or should I trade it in for another at Best Buy? Other than that the speed, extra RAM, and brightness are fantastic compared to my 505.
RE: Stuck Pixel
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/21/2002 6:43:03 AM #
This is just a quality control fault. Get it replaced.

m515 Sidelight setting turns to "off' unexpectedly

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/21/2002 6:41:21 AM #
Anyone else notice that the m515 Sidelight setting turns to "off' unexpectedly by itself sometimes when you pull it off of the cradle?? Strange but no big deal.

RE: m515 Sidelight setting turns to
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/21/2002 9:20:52 AM #
I have seen that same behaviour with my m515. Odd, but not critical given all the other advantages.

Demand for retraction in it's *own headline*

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/21/2002 9:31:22 AM #
Usually you guys do a really great job reporting news, but this is most definately not news. It's not even a bug in PalmOS.

As stated in other comments, this is most likely a problem with applications, not PalmOS.

As such, being posted with such a scathing headline, I demand that a retraction or correction be printed, *as it's own news item*. A correction to something like this deserves it's own headline, as a lot of people just scan the headlines. A little "update: i guess we were wrong" in the bottom of the article won't cut it.

If it's a rumor or unverified news, fine, post it, just don't post stuff like this with such a damning headline, *especially* since it wasn't verified by anyone else.

RE: Demand for retraction in it's *own headline*
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/21/2002 9:43:43 AM #
Here's a few of the comments you must have missed:

> The same happens with MegaLauncher and others

> Well, I have it in Eudora, Bejeweled and some other applications.

> I have this problem on my EFIGS m515 on a few apps, including Avantgo,
> Eudora Mail, Lemmings, PalmVNC, Omniremote 1.2 beta, McFile 1.12, and
> Route.

Just because you don't have a bug, doesn't mean a bug doesn't exist. By that arguement, I can say that there is no USB problem with the m505 because I've never had it happen to me.

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