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Sony Demoing Palm OS 5 (Updated)

Sony is putting on in Tokyo this week a show called Dream World, designed to show off its latest technology. Included in this is a demonstration of a handheld running Palm OS 5. PC Watch, a Japanese website, has a picture. Unfortunately, no other details are available.

Update: A Sony spokesperson emphasizes that this is more of a demonstration of the capabilities of Palm OS 5 on an ARM-based processor than a sneak peak of a future hardware release. According to him, it is premature to draw any conclusions about the hardware features of future handhelds based on this.

This display model is running a video side-by-side with a NR70V to demonstrate the improved multimedia capabilities of an ARM-based processor when compared with a Dragonball one. It also shows that Sony has successfully added hi-res+ support to OS 5.

Sony is still keeping a tight hold on information about its plans for OS 5-based handhelds. This isn't an official announcement of a new model. Sony doesn't give its display model a name or even suggest when or even if it will be available.

Since PalmSource completed work on Palm OS 5 in June and sent it on to its licensees, there has been tremendous anticipation for the first devices using the new operating system. Quite a bit of information has been leaked about an OS 5 device from Palm, rumored to be called the Tungsten, but little has surfaced on anything from Sony.

Thanks to Kevin Harrison for the tip and Eugene for his help with the translation. -Ed

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Hmmmm, clie

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 6:58:50 PM #
Sweet, good to see OS5 devices materialising.
where is it!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:01:26 PM #
I want it,I need it, and I can't wait much longer...........................

I want one!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:02:02 PM #
I want one, I want one, I want one!!!
RE: Hmmmm, clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:07:50 PM #
humm, materialising...until in the hand...
WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:10:43 PM #
I WANT IT!!!!
ED
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:43:58 PM #
I LOVE YOU!!!! Nothing else to say :)
HAPPY!
kempokaraterulz @ 9/11/2002 8:00:37 PM #
Im so happy i cant even think of something smart to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW!

_______________________________________

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

RE: Hmmmm, clie
Ed @ 9/11/2002 10:32:50 PM #
Sorry, I'm going through these threads trying to keep people's hopes from outrunning what this article really says. Sony has not announced that its OS 5 handheld will have the same shape as a NR70V. Instead, it is demonstrating OS5's multimedia capabilities.

I'm also not saying Sony won't release an OS 5 model with a clamshell shape and a hi-res+ screen. I hope they are, but I don't know. If I did know, I'd tell you.

I just don't want you all from getting the wrong idea from this article. Please take it for what it is: Sony has hi-res+ and full-screen video running under OS 5. That's good news, even if it isn't the complete product announcement you are hoping for.

---
News Editor

RE: Hmmmm, clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 9:59:58 AM #
I understand that. However, as you can see, the reactions of these posts is favorable to the Nr70V formfactor with ARM and OS5. You better believe that Sony knows this and if they can fit all of the bells and whistles into the casing of the old NR70V, the form will be very close....probabbly better.

Also, with 320x480, Palm is in deep doo-doo if they release a 320x320.

RE: Hmmmm, clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 4:23:29 PM #
I am suspicious. They way the demo unit is displayed surrounded by that frame, I am guessing that only the screen is showing because that box/frame behind it is filled with misc. guts too big to fit in the case.
RE: Hmmmm, clie
cybertek @ 9/12/2002 11:12:59 PM #
hey, look at me!!! i'm an easily lead automiton....I LOOOOOOOVE SONY!!

give me a break! you guys are drooling over sony's scraps, this product is never going to see production. and when a product w/ os5 finally comes out its going to have crap that no one needs...i mean really, virtual graphity is all nice in theory, but you'd figure sony has engineer's smart enough that can get the entire screen from refreshing w/ the launch of any app.

...and before all you die-hard sony fans jump to some futile arguement, lemme save you the trouble - this problem isn't caused by the palm os.

RE: Hmmmm, clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2002 12:15:11 AM #
Of course it's not caused by Palm OS, this feature doesn't exist on Palm OS so how could it be Palm OS's fault.

And refreshing the whole screen including the virtual grafitti area is not really such a big deal.

RE: Hmmmm, clie
cybertek @ 9/14/2002 2:35:32 AM #
yes you anonymous coward, its clearly not palm os's fault why its flickering, i was simply stating this so you morons wouldn't blame palm os.

RE: Hmmmm, clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2002 4:01:02 AM #
lol and you are not Anonymous just so you can look stupid with your real name ?? O no it's just a nickname/handle ... You are as anonymous as anybody here ...

os5 device from sony

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:06:42 PM #
i made a comment to our sony rep at work about them releasing 8 pdas this year and asked how many they'd have for the year... he just kinda laughed and said a dozen. i said he had to be kidding, but then he reminded me that os5 is coming and said that it would be a dozen for the year. i'd guess a nr70, nr70v, t665, and a t615 replacement (yes i know the sj30 replaced the t615 - but not likely that the sj30 would disappear *that* quickly)

Wait a minute!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:24:50 PM #
I love the NR70v shape and did not buy because it was OS4 and now you telling me they might release OS5 in that same spectacular shape as well as some different bodies?
Ohhhh I love September!
Everything starts moving in September!

Funds allocated for the NR70v have just been
re-allocated.

RE: Wait a minute!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2002 9:16:16 AM #
Take it easy, troll!

Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!

abosco @ 9/11/2002 7:41:57 PM #
This is amazing!!! I was just talking to Alex (Texskater) about when the NR90 will be seen and he said it'll probably be seen sometime later on this week. BOY WAS HE RIGHT ABOUT THIS!!! I was anticipating something around October, but something like a demo of this unit is just what the industry needed!

This is the news we have all been waiting for! An actual unit is coming out with Palm OS 5! Ed, I wish you the best of luck gathering as much information as possible about this. This is a HUGE development, as everybody knows.

I'm so excited, I'm shaking! The NR90 IS HERE!!!

I'm going to buy this the day it comes out! What do you guys think the pricetag will be for this (suspecting this is the NR90)? I'm guessing $800, which is what I am willing to pay!

God bless America, this brightened my day... long live free enterprise!!!

---
I apologize for wasting 30 seconds of your life.

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
kempokaraterulz @ 9/11/2002 8:02:16 PM #
Im guessing 600-700, probably simalar to the nr70 and nr70v when they came out

_______________________________________

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 8:14:47 PM #
I thought "NR 90" is referring to a T665 form factor + Virtual Graffiti?

This is a "NR 70v" with OS 5. Not sure what the name is.

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
Token User @ 9/11/2002 8:17:25 PM #
Sony is putting on in Tokyo this week a show called Dream World, designed to show off its latest technology. Included in this is a demonstration of a handheld running Palm OS 5.

I want one too, but this is a demonstration unit. It is as real as the Oslo was/is.

Until it hits retail channels we still don't have a released OS5 device - and still don't have a clear picture from Sony or Palm what they will look like.

Still, gotta love the rumours. who will be first to market Sony or Palm (or Toshiba ;).

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
TexSkater9140 @ 9/11/2002 8:20:54 PM #
it was pretty cool, eh alex?
i hadnt even seen the site, cuz i had said it like 5 mins before this post.
i mentioned my so called "insider info" and went to check the forums when i saw that pic. it was SO cool. not that i am gonna get one, im content with what i got now, but it is cool.
have fun
-alex

---------------------------------------
Check out my site:
http://home.attbi.com/~ajramos/
Best viewed with Internet Explorer
RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
abosco @ 9/11/2002 8:27:52 PM #
"I thought "NR 90" is referring to a T665 form factor + Virtual Graffiti? This is a "NR 70v" with OS 5. Not sure what the name is."

There were two rumors about this.

One was that there would be a T665c running Palm OS 5 and with virtual graffiti, and another was a clamshell pda (like the NR70v) with a video camcorder, but not running Palm OS!

Weird... but if this thing ends up being an NR70v with OS 5.0 and a video camcorder, I'm all over it!

---
I apologize for wasting 30 seconds of your life.

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
mentalsrule @ 9/11/2002 10:14:16 PM #
Well im glad sony might have the upper hand on this, and with at least pictures, it seems that there finally IS hope of a really kick butt OS5 device!..

i know im gonna get it as soon as it comes out!

____________________
Boycott the RIAA
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/

Not a Product Announcement
Ed @ 9/11/2002 10:18:39 PM #
I hate to throw cold water on all this enthusiasm but, like I said in the article, this ISN'T a product announcement. I just talked with a Sony spokesperson who asked me to emphasize that his company is demonstrating the power of OS 5 and the ARM processor, NOT the hardware it runs on.

Unfortunately, you have to be there to see how great the video looks on the ARM-based processor; naturally, that doesn't come across in a static image.

So don't go off thinking that Sony has announced that its next handheld will be a NR70V with OS 5. It hasn't said anything of the sort.

But you don't have to go away empty handed. Sony has OS 5 running well on whatever ARM-based processor it chose. That includes hi-res+ support, and full-screen video. I know, it isn't an announcement that the model will be out next week, but it is at least good news.

---
News Editor

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 10:21:10 PM #
Well, if this ISNT the NR70 series replacement, id really like to get a NR70. (anyone wanna trade for a prism)

Bring on the $800 Palms
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 11:49:27 PM #
"I'm going to buy this the day it comes out! What do you guys think the pricetag will be for this (suspecting this is the NR90)? I'm guessing $800, which is what I am willing to pay!"

$800?!?! I don't know what I'm more stunned about, that you think an OS 5 Clie would be $800 or that someone would be willing to pay that much for one. I think you need a cold shower.

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
abosco @ 9/11/2002 11:56:06 PM #
"$800?!?! I don't know what I'm more stunned about, that you think an OS 5 Clie would be $800 or that someone would be willing to pay that much for one. I think you need a cold shower."

Ok, considering the NR70v was priced retail at $600, I think it is safe to say that a device like the NR90 would cost $800. Remember, for $200 extra dollars, you are getting a processor that is three times as fast as the NR70v's and a digital video camcorder. Now, considering that an MP3 player puts an average of $100 extra onto a device, wouldn't a processor three times faster and a digital camcorder cost $200 extra? And don't forget about the possibility of being more RAM in the device. My guess is that it will have 32 mb, which should be more than satisfying for ANYBODY'S needs out of the Palm OS, but it could be something totally unexpected, like 64 mb.

And Ed, yes, I understand that you are saying the NR90 hasn't officially taken off. I understand that it's just a demo unit, but a demo unit of an NR70v with OS 5 is DEFINITELY a good thing. It means that Sony is thinking towards putting OS 5 in an NR clamshell, which is a VERY good thing. But I'm just planning for the future with the NR90. If it does make its appearance, I will be happy to shell out $800 for this, and if it might be lower in price like some people say, then all the more power to Sony.

From the perspective I'm looking at this, Sony is making progress, progress we thought was dormant in Sony's interest in building an OS 5 machine. I'm just happy they are telling us about their current vision and thoughts and I'm just generally happy that we are so close to a release of an OS 5 device. Can't wait to see the first wave hit store shelves soon!

---
I apologize for wasting 30 seconds of your life.

The NR90 is not here
Ed @ 9/12/2002 9:29:31 AM #
I think $800 is unrealistic. While the OS 5 models are much faster, the hardware isn't significantly more expensive. Maybe I'm letting my optomistic side take control, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony release their first OS 5 model at $600 at the most, and that's only if it has the hi-res+ screen and the built-in camera. Keep in mind, this OS 5 model won't be a big improvement over the NR series, which already offers many of the new multimedia features in OS 5, like MP3 playback.

On the other hand, I expect Palm's first model to be more expensive than an m515 because it will be a big jump in features. It will add a hi-res screen, MP3 playback, and possibly even voice recording. Palm will be able to justify charging a premium for these new features, where Sony can not.

> Remember, for $200 extra dollars, you are getting a processor that is
> three times as fast as the NR70v's and a digital video camcorder.

abosco, you need to be realistic about this digital camcorder. For one thing, it is still a rumor. And for another, (if it is real) it will almost certainly have the same image quality as the camera on the NR70V. In short, it will be a fun toy but not something you are going to record your daughter's birthday party with and save for posterity.

---
News Editor

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 11:51:31 AM #
"Remember, for $200 extra dollars, you are getting a processor that is three times as fast as the NR70v's and a digital video camcorder."

By that statement a new 2.1Ghz PC's should cost around $1,000,000 because my original Comodore 64 was $595. I can see a Sony hi-end unit selling for $600, with the current "king of the hill" dropping in price. That's the way things work. If Sony thinks they can get $800 for one I'd have to tell them good luck. I'll wait another year or two.

--Dave

maybe,...... just maybe..
bobes @ 9/12/2002 12:11:11 PM #
they'll put a better camera in the new unit. I'd say 1 megapixel should be sufficient.

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
Bartman007 @ 9/12/2002 4:35:16 PM #
"Remember, for $200 extra dollars, you are getting a processor that is three times as fast as the NR70v's... wouldn't a processor three times faster and a digital camcorder cost $200 extra?"

Of course you are assumming that Sony will use a 180-200 mhz processor.

And I have a feeling that Sony is just using the NR series clamshell for now as a demo chassis. I personally this that some of the hardware is hidden inside the frame display case, from the picture I can't tell how thick that display is.

I also have a feeling that Sony will tweek the NR series case if they are going to release an OS 5 model based on it.


Peace,
-Bartman007


P.S. Please excuse this post if it makes no sence. I have gotten a total of 13 hours sleep in the last week =(

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 6:04:17 PM #
This is a demo. But it is a more real demo
than Sony's demo ( it probably can't be called a demo)
at PalmSource last Feb.


RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 6:14:26 PM #
"they'll put a better camera in the new unit. I'd say 1 megapixel should be sufficient"

to support a higher resolution camera would require better optics. don't see it happening

RE: Dream come true... the NR90 is here!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2002 8:15:22 AM #
Better optis are now readily available. take a look at the plethora of micro digital cameras making thier way to the market. In particular the Casio Exilim S1 and M1 and the soon to be released S2/M2 these models support 1.3 and 2.1 mega pixels. in a tremendously small form factor. they are both only slightly larger than a stack of 5 credit cards (or was it 7? eh either way thats tiny) he point is the technology to implement a 1 megapixle camera into the body of a palm device is out there they ust need to use it and find it at the right prce point to make it worth thier while. Im not saying it is gunna happen but it could and it definatly would be great. right now all these built in digital cameras are just doodads without much use (yes tiny 640x480 snaps are nice to put a face with a name in your phone book but they print the size of postage stamps), hopefully they will soon reach the 2megapixle level where normal 4x5 prints are reasonable. btu i dont see that happening for another 1.5-2 years. but hey thats the thign about technology if u can wait there is always something better around the corner :o)

There is a chance...

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 7:45:34 PM #
...that that is a fake display meant for Sony to demo the ARM CPU while not giving away its new form factor. My guess is that Sony's OS5 will not be EXACTLY the same size/shape as the NR70. Sony's usually strict about new stuff not showing up in public (well, the NR70 at the conference is one exception.)

Anyway, If that is Sony's OS5 form-factor, believe me- I'll be glad.... But I doubt the first generation of a new CPU will be as small, thin, etc. as seemingly nearly a decade of small-ization has done for Dragonball palms.

RE: There is a chance...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 8:08:53 PM #
Why would you say that? The ARM doesn't take much (if any) more space than the dragonball. I'd expect similar thin and small device forms from Sony.

BTW, I'll take one!!!

RE: There is a chance...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 2:12:42 PM #
Cooling, ARM processors run much hotter than dragnoballs (although WAY cooler than say, a pentium), but they tend to need a little more thickness for a beefier heatsink or some other cooling device.
RE: There is a chance...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2002 8:16:17 AM #
where is your cpu-problem?

look at the ARM based Toshiba Pocket PC e310.
nearly the same form factor like the Palm m5xx-Series!

so:
it works... ;-)


Thomas W. Geuting

RE: There is a chance...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2002 12:12:19 AM #
Not Bigger. Look at the datasheets. Most of the ARM processors in the Palm Ready program are in packaged the same size or *smaller* packages (12x12mm BGA's) than the DragonballVZ (20x20mm TQFP & 13x13mm MBGA), and consume around the same power (V*A, which turns into heat) or many cases even less (when running native ARM OS code out of cache). The bigger problem is that the printed circuit board for such tiny surface mount chips is a non-trivial multi-layer design, fabrication, and assembly process.

Anyone remember the PalmSource meeting where a Sony representative said that the NR70V lookalike shown during a powerpoint presentation was only a non-functional mockup? Hmmm....

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