Rumor: Sony Clie NX70V & NX60 Revealed

As I understand it, 3rd-party developers cannot create purely ARM-native Palm OS apps and have them run under OS 5. OS 6 will be needed for that. Thus OS 5 is a sort of stop-gap OS and surely any PDA developer using it knows this and has plans to go to OS 6 ASAP.

Or do I misunderstand this issue?

no he doesn't misunderstand. OS 5 will not allow 100% pure ARM applications, although it will allow from "armlets" or bits of key parts of the program to be written for ARM. while it gives you most of the benefits of a pure ARM program as the armlets will target performance portions of the program, ie. graphics calls etc. it is by no means total and some parts will always run in emulation. OS 6 will allow for pure ARM applications while still I believe having emulation as the backup rather than primary means of operation.

that said both Sony and Palm have had flash upgrades in the past for their units to higher OS numbers. clearly Palm has lead the way with this though and often didn't charge for the upgrade something Sony always has. neither company has by any means promised a upgrade could be offered or will be offered to OS 6, although many believe that likely. buyer beware.

If there is no printed promise, assume it is not upgradable. How many time has Sony weasel out of upgradability? (plus there is no mention anywhere the 16mb are flashable)

I'd say the biggest factor is the ROM size. OS6 is supposed to add things like a real file system, custom fonts, multitasking and support for native ARM code for apps. OS5 still fits in a 4MB ROM. If they are shipping these new devices with a 4MB ROM and OS6 has a 5MB or bigger footprint, unless Palm can provide a "light" upgrade that fits in 4MB, then you couldn't upgrade. By light, I mean leave things out or put some in RAM like the Pocket PC 2002 ROM upgrade did for iPAQs - WMP, Terminal Server, Reader Messenger were RAM updates and Spellchecking and Pocket IE WAP support was left out entirely.

> OS6 is supposed to add things like a real file system, custom
> fonts, multitasking and support for native ARM code for apps

The Palm OS already has a real file system. Supporting multitasking and native ARM code, mainly means opening up and making official existing APIs by providing header files and specifying the binary format. Custom fonts would be the only "new" thing in that list. Fonts are usually one of the bigger items in many OS's, so it could be an issue. Still, you could do a minimal release that only includes a few fonts and it depends on how sophisticated the font system is.

Of course, given that you had no clue in 3/4 of what you said, I wouldn't place much value on any of it.

Hey wait a sec, some days ago we where all very excited about the palm OS5 debut... now we are all discussing about OS 6? kinda to ahead in time for me. Lets wait until we get a grip on some OS 5 device and then we will have a lot of things to say about OS 6...

>> The Palm OS already has a real file system
>Does it?

What do you mean "does it"? Are we in a time warp here? I can create, read, write, modify, etc. files in a hierarchical directory structure (and modify that too). It's been available on Palm OS for over a year now. What planet have you been on?

Is it ego that makes people take things so personally?

It's a little silly to argue the point. Both of you need clues. Technically, a filesystem is a type of database (in which the data records are the files and the directories). But a Palm handheld with no card in the slot (that's 90+% of them) only has databases in the storage heap, so that's what the PalmOS runs off of for persistant storage. It's true that some launchers permit running apps off of memory cards, but these apps and the launcher itself are databases (prc databases, which are a variant type of pdb database) which must be in the storage heap at run-time. You can't run an app that's flat 68k or ARM machine code in a VFS file directly from the launcher. You can't sync (via a conduit) a database that's been flatted onto a memory card, or that has any record > 64k. So, currently, VFS is a second class citizen, even in OS5. Flat unsegmented code much bigger than 65k is something for which they need to enhance the OS and API's.

Oh, no...not again....

Dragonball MX1 processor - 200Mhz or a StrongARM processor at 206Mhz or a Intel PXA210 X-Scale processor at 200Mhz - I am putting my money on MX1

I read about a new 300mhz Intel XScale that is dubbed faster than other versions. Is this processor included in the Palm Ready program assuming Intel manfuacturers this new Xscale processor?

> XScale = ARM
> DragonBall mx1 = ARM
> StrongARM = ARM
> TI OMAP = ARM

> ...these are ALL ARM cpus

Actually not technically correct. These are not just CPUs. These are all controller chips that *contain* a CPU (or two), *plus* a bunch of other stuff (caches, serial ports, clocks & timers, PWM audio, possibly USB, slot, memory and display controllers, etc.) The OMAP throws in a 200 MHz DSP and local RAM.

The TI OMAP and Motorola MX1 contain ARM, Inc. designed CPU cores (ARM 9T variants). The DEC (now Intel) StrongARM and Intel XScale contain ARM architecture compliant CPU's (execute the same instructions, but with different pipeline and cache arrangements, sort-of like the difference between various Athlon, P3 and P4 ia32/x86 implementations.)

I think all of you guys are missing the point. My guess of what happened to XScale is that Sony has produced their own processor. I know that Sony as an ASIC divison and is making their own chips. The only question is do they have a partnership with ARM? If so, then it would seem to make sense that they would put together their own version. This would allow them to add things that can set them ahead of everyone else. I suspect that they put a mpeg4 engine on the same chip. So who wants to buy one of these and tear it appart and let us know what chips are inside?

If it is XScale *and* Sony is not advertising it,
then I would humbly suggest that Sony plans on using
more than one vendor for its Clie line.

That means Sony will offer both Motorola MX1 and
XScale in their lineup.

XScale performance is poor. Intel won't have Palm
support in their new Beta released compiler until
November. If it is XScale, then it doesn't have
the optimized compiler. Existing ADS 1.X tools
do a poor job with Intel's XScale variant.

It would be foolish to go this early with XScale.

By Merriam-Webster's definition:

"an often small mechanical or electronic device with a practical use but often thought of as a novelty"

In my thinking, a gadget is a small device that has one or more features, period, and this thing packs more useful and advanced features into 8 oz. than anything, ever (at least until the next model).

I haven't been a big buyer of Sony gear over the years, but it looks like that's about to change big-time. I love my current Clie N760C, but it's looking to be time to upgrade!

Let me preface this posting with a few statements:

I LOVE my Clie N760C...it is the best PalmOS device I've ever owned (and I've owned 7 devices in the last 4 years...all Palm branded, except for the N760C). I have become quite a big fan of Sony and their PalmOS strategy, despite the fact that my one-year-old N760C is about 3 generations old by now. They have pushed the PalmOS to heights that none of us could have imagined, regardless of OS version.

OK, here is my problem...Toshiba, T-MObile, HP/Compaq. I do not see myself abandoning the PalmOS for PPC, but I am afraid if the current hardware trends continue, we may finally see the significant erosion of the PalmOS market share, in favor of PPC, that has been forecast for years. The new generation of PPC devices have some very compelling feature sets and much improved form factors.

I had the opportunity to play with the T-Mobile PPC smartphone, and just on form factor alone, it is a beautiful device. It looks nicer than any PalmOS based phone I've seen, including the upcoming Tungsten W, the Treo line, Samsung, and Kyocera (I've used/owned both the Samsung and Kyocera models). This is one place where we could really see Palm take it in the teeth, since a cell phone buyer will often consider form, but not always be so concerned with what OS is embedded.

I have also been pretty impressed with the Toshiba PPC models. The e740 has built-in WiFi, plus TWO expansion slots (CF and SD/MMC), all in a reasonable (albeit kind of plain) form factor. The battery life is not too good, but neither is the reported battery life for the NX70V...but the Toshiba has a user-accessible battery compartment. I think Palm made a strategic error when they refused to sell Toshiba a PalmOS license. They were afraid to lose more market share on their more lucrative hardware side...well unfortunately, they will probably still lose market share to Toshiba, despite the fact that they are running the PPC OS.

My biggest issue is the capability for wireless connectivity. I am a bit concerned with the strategy that Sony has adopted here. By limiting CF choices, and by not including Bluetooth, I am not quite ready to just jump on this device as soon as it is available. I think Palm did a great thing by including Bluetooth, but really missed on the rest of the new Tungsten T (ugly, awkward form factor, no virtual graffiti).

I am hoping that the next Sony device running OS5 will be as thin as the T655C, with buttons like my N760C, built-in bluetooth, and pack the new features and software of the NX60 (since I doubt it will have a camera).

Maybe I'll be waiting for the crop of OS6 devices....sigh...