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Does Palm Need Android?

Palm AndroidA newly posted editorial article has been published at Fortune entitled "Why Palm needs Android." The piece attempts to make the case that Palm would be better off going with Google's Android OS instead of forging ahead with its own longstanding Palm OS Nova plans. Mainly, the author feels that the "old reasons" for developing a mobile OS - "cool factor, pricing power and influence don't carry the weight they used to" and that Palm is too small of a company to challenge its more powerful competitors.

It would certainly be an extremely risky strategy for Palm and would mark a complete turnaround from their own publicly stated plans. Personally I feel the argument here is a weak one, however the author does make one good point in the conclusion, "Palm needs bold moves, and it doesn't have much room for error."

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Been saying this for years

craigf @ 10/1/2008 12:49:55 PM # Q
Ever since Google announced the OHA and Android, my position has been that Palm should have dropped its in-house efforts and focused on being a prime partner in the OHA. Android is everything Palm OS II/Nova was supposed to be, with the exception of a Palm OS compatibility layer, but that can be easily coded up or obtained from ACCESS (who has it already).

RE: Been saying this for years
wilcox1976 @ 11/15/2010 11:16:35 AM # Q
Used a Treo 600 for years. Thought I would try out an Samsung Intercept Android. I used it for 2 weeks on Virgin Mobile. Try as I may I thought the droid Phone was very clunky and could not understand how it would ever be possible to get used to it. For a windows world my Palm seemed to have more in common with window then the droid did. Yeah the android had lots of bells and whistles but for the day to day stuff, Palm seemed so much easier to use. I really wanted it to work out. I know the 600 is way dated.

Maybe some of you Palm users can tell me too. What happened to Datebook command: Journal (Menu J) and Floating events (menu i) on later Palms? I bought a 650 but returned it because it seemed like instead of adding features they started removing them.

Reply to this comment

palmdroid

Gekko @ 10/1/2008 1:02:49 PM # Q

i agree with the editorial. i think palmdroid makes sense.

1. palm can customize it with their own special sauces - GUI, look, and programs to differentiate and make it zen / palmos-like. maybe they can offer an emulator?

2. android is free.

3. android is open - developers can develop for palmdroid.

4. keep selling winmob as needed.

5. nova is DOA and time is running out.



RE: palmdroid
Gekko @ 10/1/2008 2:27:43 PM # Q

funny that nobody mentions ALP as a viable alternative. in theory, it should be. thoughts?

RE: palmdroid
Gekko @ 10/1/2008 3:02:01 PM # Q

p.s. he's still out there... waiting.... watching....

---

Do we now deal with too much technology?

11-22-2007, 11:53 PM 148117 in reply to 147799

* e-tellurian is not online. Last active: 09-27-2008, 4:48 PM e-tellurian
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* Top 25 Contributor
* Joined on 02-07-2007
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* Posts 1,271

The motor cycle and car replaced the horse yet these same people no longer want to ride a horse to work. The baby boomers had much support for their ideas good thing that thinking has followed them into their aging years.

New thoughts does not = no choices. i worked with a guy that used to offer technical solutions in the plastic enabled e-com and later in telecommunications data industry. Then while working on the next generation of e-com well we-com choices his crew got asked to offer solution for peace as a consequence of people not having the choice for peace. Now this guy is working on some old fashioned thing called Atlantis this mobile village concept that will be in international waters where we can do what we want including having peace while interacting with our we-com technology of choice. Offering more space for people on land may offer more peace too. Funny thing tellurian = person from Earth yet most of our planet is water.

Well thank goodness for good old ingenuity. No need to battle for space when we can make our own. Eh we could fly the proposed Vinland flag on Atlantis eh we could re-name Atlantis Vinland and fly the Vinland flag here and all the Raven (Research Advanced Virtual electronic Nation) people could meet here for gatherings of festive joy and peace.

Peace,

E-T

http://communities.canada.com/shareit/forums/2/117875/ShowThread.aspx

RE: palmdroid
scstraus2 @ 10/2/2008 11:43:51 AM # Q
If it's not glaringly obvious by now, Palm is a completely rudderless company that has ruined every opportunity they have had to right the ship.

They could have gone kept Palmsource and kept working on PalmOS. They could have gone with Cobalt. They could have gone with ALP. They could go with android. But they will continue their stubborn pursuits to make a new OS, and when and if it comes out it will be about 4 years behind the competition.

Palm=Commodore.

Palm Pilot 5000->Palm Pilot Professional->Handspring Visor->Handspring Visor Prism->Handspring Visor Neo->Handspring Treo 180->Handspring Treo 270->Palm Treo 600->Tapwave Zodiac 2->Palm Treo 650->Palm Treo 680->...

Samsung i780!

Goodbye Palm

RE: palmdroid
hkklife @ 10/2/2008 1:02:53 PM # Q
Palm=Atari as well. Must be somethin' poisoning the waters there in Sunnyvale!

Don't worry, Palm is never going to release Nova or adopt ALP or Android. They're going to continue to trot out a few more mildly revamped WinMob Treos & flog the existing Centro in every color under the rainbow like they've flogged their final three PDAs. Then sometime in a year or so they'll quite announce a strategic refocusing as a "wireless solutions" company and spin off the hardware line. Or they'll just end up being acquired for pennies on the dollar by a hungry competitor (perhaps HTC) just for their IP & carrier agreements.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: palmdroid
joad @ 10/4/2008 7:20:30 PM # Q
OPTIMISTS! ALL of you!


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.
RE: palmdroid
freakout @ 10/5/2008 6:40:20 AM # Q
Palmdroid would be a bad call. Unlike WinMob, Android doesn't already have a pre-existing market of enterprise customers to sell to, and it's yet to be proven in the consumer space. Since nobody outside of Palm has seen actually seen what's cooking with Nova (and lived to tell about it), who's to say that Palm didn't already check Android out and decide their homegrown alternative was going to be better?

(waits for the laughter to die down)

(waits longer)

...anyways, I'm still interested to see what they come out with. There's better business potential in inventing your own delicious secret sauce, rather than bottling someone else's.

RE: palmdroid
SeldomVisitor @ 10/5/2008 8:25:56 AM # Q
> ...Android doesn't already have a pre-existing market of enterprise
> customers to sell to, and it's yet to be proven in the consumer space...

Not to nit a pick but...you know...Nova hasn't really been proven anywhere, either.


RE: palmdroid
freakout @ 10/5/2008 9:15:23 PM # Q
^^ Which is my point, really. Since we don't know anything about it, it's a bit early to be chastising Palm for not jumping on the Android bandwagon - especially considering Android also has yet to be blooded.
RE: palmdroid
Gekko @ 11/15/2010 1:34:43 PM # Q

hmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnn............

what a difference 2 years makes.....................

Reply to this comment

Sleeping with the enemy

PacManFoo @ 10/1/2008 1:05:04 PM # Q
Palm long ago sold it's soul to Microsoft. They couldn't adopot Android now even if they wanted too. Even developing a new OS is somewhat risky for Palm. Microsoft sort of controls Palm's fate if their new OS looks at all promising then Microsoft could make things hard on their Treo line. The best thing for Palm would be to get out of the phone buisness and create Internet Tablets, gaming devices, dare I say it..PDA's, and maybe even Universal Remotes. Deversify their products until their big enough to really put on their big boy pants.

The last known classic PDA user.
I've recently upgraded from a PLAM TX to a Newton MP2000!
http://newtonpda.googlepages.com
RE: Sleeping with the enemy
Gekko @ 10/1/2008 1:13:23 PM # Q

>Internet Tablets, gaming devices, dare I say it..PDA's, and maybe even Universal Remotes.

yes, low margin commodity markets and dead markets are the keys to profitability.

RE: Sleeping with the enemy
PacManFoo @ 10/1/2008 1:16:21 PM # Q
There you have it. Even Gekko agrees with me!

Just for that he gets a free NHL Schedule Tinybyte!

The last known classic PDA user.
I've recently upgraded from a PLAM TX to a Newton MP2000!
http://newtonpda.googlepages.com

RE: Sleeping with the enemy
tompi @ 10/5/2008 5:08:59 AM # Q
yes, low margin commodity markets and dead markets are the keys to profitability.

Phones aren't exactly high margin anymore.

(Well, unless you're Apple, but Apple could sell the iLoo for 10x the price of a regular toilet.)

Reply to this comment

Like they need a bullet in the head.

JonAcheson @ 10/1/2008 2:14:10 PM # Q
Android will be Palm's death, not its salvation. By the time Nova gets to market, it will be competing against second- or third-generation Android devices. Once Access starts selling their software on the Android store, it's all over. The good news is, there might one day be an upgrade path for us PDA users who Palm has kicked to the curb.

Yeah, Palm could jump on board the Android bandwagon, but unless they buy Access, they will be stuck making their own compatibility layer, again, this time out of Java. So that's another start from scratch situation. And in the meantime, Android will be killing the Treo market dead. Without their one basket full of eggs, Palm is not likely to be around long enough to try and finish yet another new version of Palm OS 6.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
bbtkd @ 10/1/2008 2:43:27 PM # Q
All I would need to have in order to jump ship right now would be an Android phone equipped like the Treo Pro (keyboard, touchscreen, camera, etc) and including a program to easily import my calendar and contacts from my Centro - and I'm there. I've been a Palm fanboy for years, having started with a Palm III, but I just don't see Palm being around in another two years once Android infests the market. They don't make their own phones, one of their OS's is widely available Windows, and their other OS is outdated and by the time they get Nova to market they will be two years too late and will have to try to compete with Android. They are so screwed.

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
SeldomVisitor @ 10/1/2008 2:54:34 PM # Q
Someone has to grab and shake Dmitry-whoever and get him to install Android on a Treo Pro.

Probably have it done before year end...giggle.

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
LiveFaith @ 10/1/2008 8:05:19 PM # Q
**Without their one basket full of eggs**

Make that 'one basket full of rotten eggs'. Barring the Pro, everything Palm has looks like an "egg" left out of the fridge too long and beginning to stink. Four years of moving like a glacier can do that.

Now that being said, the article says that it's "risky" for Palm to develop it's own OS. Well folks, risky is better than guaranteed death. That's what Palm will get if they try to go head to head with other hardware manufacturers using a the same OS. Palm has proven for years that it has neither the will nor the ability to be on the cutting edge of hardware tech. Their "just enough to make it" hardware philosophy (m5xx, T|W, T|C audio, Treo650 32mb, T|T5, missing WiFi, inching Treo upgrades etc.) will be a joke in the long run even if the Android platform becomes profitable.

Now, I hold about a 15% chance that Nova actually ships on any device. But even if I happened to be accurate, I would still roll the dice with it. Something radically productive that others cannot easily duplicate is Palm's only hope. They did it with the Pilot and they did it with the Treo (they?), but they have not excelled at retaining leads. From a historical standpoint, they either innovate a "new" and needed solution, or they die. Taking the risk of Nova is no risk in my book.

Pat Horne

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
PadOPaper @ 10/1/2008 9:18:42 PM # Q
"Now, I hold about a 15% chance that Nova actually ships on any device."

I'd love to bet against you with those odds.

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
SeldomVisitor @ 10/2/2008 3:14:00 AM # Q
> ...Something radically productive that others cannot easily duplicate
> is Palm's only hope...

Too late - Microsoft already demonstrated it!

- http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/01/microsoft-research-codex-project-tries-two-screens-on-for-size/

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
Poopie @ 10/3/2008 1:01:00 PM # Q

The good news is, there might one day be an upgrade path for us PDA users who Palm has kicked to the curb.

The final Palm killer app.

Double entendre intended...

RE: Like they need a bullet in the head.
tompi @ 10/5/2008 3:21:21 AM # Q
"Yeah, Palm could jump on board the Android bandwagon, but unless they buy Access, they will be stuck making their own compatibility layer, again, this time out of Java. So that's another start from scratch situation"

Android is a Linux-based system; Palm could have easily put their own software on it, along-side the Java based applications.

I think they missed the boat, though. As a first mover, they could have made a name for themselves again. As is, HTC, Motorola, and Samsung would kill them with better and cheaper hardware.

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ALP might've been palm's answer

flareon @ 10/1/2008 8:50:46 PM # Q
I was saddened when Palm decided not to use the ACCESS Linux Platform. I had hoped that this was going to be the first widespread cross-platform open source mobile OS in this country. It should've been what android has turned out to be.

It's a slick system which has a ton of customization and app development potential. The core suite of apps are very tight and polished (if you've ever used the Netfront browser you know exactly what i'm talking about).

I don't understand palm's desire to continue locking down their OS. It's not like they've produced a bulletproof hardware/software ecosystem on any of their phones (or put together a to die for hardware platform - they always miss the mark slightly).

I think that i feel the same way as many other people about palm: i'm willing to give them one more chance, but that's it. Palm's incremental enhancements to the OS aren't getting it done. As mentioned above, it's time for a totally new direction. If they haven't put something together for next year which is at least as good as ALP (and bears minimal resemblance to Garnet) i know i'll be walking. I can imagine i won't be the only one.

The initial implementation of android isn't going to kill palm or anyone else...it's just not that sophisticated and polished. I don't expect that to last for long though. Palm should be hearing yet another set of footsteps behind/beside them...i just hope that they're innovative enough to deal with it.

RE: ALP might've been palm's answer
JonAcheson @ 10/2/2008 8:31:33 AM # Q
It certainly would have put them in a better position than they are in today.

If we're going for the road not taken, though, the real mistake was in ever splitting off the OS from the hardware company. It did absolutely nothing for them, and crippled OS development.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: ALP might've been palm's answer
Gekko @ 10/2/2008 9:17:50 AM # Q
RE: ALP might've been palm's answer
joad @ 10/4/2008 7:29:45 PM # Q
Yeah, Access Mobile Linux was demo'ing what - 2 years ago? They didn't have the radios fully functioning and other stuff was left to do, but it was pretty far along. They had it running some legacy PalmOS apps just fine. WTF has been happening since?

Between Palm's seeming ineptitude at releasing something the past few years worth buying that runs PalmOS apps and Sprint's inability to bill in accordance with the agreement their representatives make, I'm nearly ready to go back to a Daytimer and land line.


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.

RE: ALP might've been palm's answer
tompi @ 10/5/2008 3:22:56 AM # Q
Palm should have switched to Linux in 2000; I said so here on PIC.

Internationally, Linux and Symbian split the phone OS market, by the way. Windows Mobile, Palm, Blackberry, and others are mostly US phenomena.

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Google should buy Palm

palmdoc88 @ 10/2/2008 5:39:52 PM # Q
That way, perhaps the best of Nova and Android's features can be incorporated into a next gen Android.
RE: Google should buy Palm
SeldomVisitor @ 10/3/2008 3:33:37 AM # Q
There are no known features of Nova...suggesting it has somethign better than Android is beyond sily.

From what I've seen online-video-wise, Android has plenty of capabilities NOW and Coming-Soon and, again from those eyeballings, lacks only shocking speed of actions. Google could put up a small billboard across from Palm HQ saying they're looking for someone who has experience in optimizing phone software to work for megabucks part-time and could probably solve that one pretty fast...

RE: Google should buy Palm
joad @ 10/4/2008 7:31:12 PM # Q
Short drive between the 2 companies. I'd rather have Google stock options, myself.


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.
RE: Google should buy Palm
tompi @ 10/5/2008 5:10:05 AM # Q
Google buys companies for either talent, or unique technology, or both. Which does Palm have?

Reply to this comment

Before Palm Adopts Android...

bhartman34 @ 10/2/2008 10:32:47 PM # Q
...shouldn't it be established that Android is successful in the first place? So far, there's only one confirmed Google Android phone, and even that hasn't been released yet.

Granted, Android is obviously farther along than anything that Palm may or may not have in the works, but before Palm goes on another search for the next big thing, they should probably first establish that the thing actually is big..,

RE: Before Palm Adopts Android...
SeldomVisitor @ 10/3/2008 3:30:09 AM # Q
> ...So far, there's only one confirmed Google Android phone...

I thought there were many confirmed Android devices with one ready for release any day now.


RE: Before Palm Adopts Android...
bhartman34 @ 10/3/2008 12:36:53 PM # Q
I thought there were many confirmed Android devices with one ready for release any day now.

I think it's only been HTC and Motorola that have even announced plans, with HTC being the one to confirm an actual phone.

It probably wouldn't be that hard for any Linux device to run Android, theoretically. My only point was that Palm might want to wait to see how Android does "in the wild" to see if it's going to catch on.

RE: Before Palm Adopts Android...
SeldomVisitor @ 10/3/2008 1:57:08 PM # Q
Dmitry-whomever really has to put Android on the Treo Pro...he'd get done before Nova is released.

RE: Before Palm Adopts Android...
hkklife @ 10/3/2008 4:36:35 PM # Q
Just something to keep in mind: that single HTC handset running Android is still more than the combined total of all the Cobalt, ALP and Nova-powered handsets on the market.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p
RE: Before Palm Adopts Android...
Gekko @ 10/3/2008 5:12:19 PM # Q

"They've (Google) got one handset maker, we've got 55. They're available through one operator, we've got 175." - Steve Ballmer, Microsoft



RE: Before Palm Adopts Android...
Gekko @ 10/3/2008 5:13:48 PM # Q

"It's (Android) version one... and it looks like version one." - Steve Ballmer, Microsoft


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