Microsoft Using Monopoly Power to Hurt Palm

In papers filed in support of the government's proposal to break up Microsoft, the Justice Department said Microsoft is using its monopoly power to hurt other makers of PDAs, specifically mentioning Palm Inc. The government said that on July 11, 1999, "Bill Gates wrote an e-mail directing that Microsoft redesign its software to harm competitors" who make PDAs.

"We were surprised to learn about that today," said Jim Adamson, director of media relations at Palm Inc. "We are looking into the matter and beyond that, because it's part of pending litigation, we can't really comment any further."

Microsoft spokesman Jim Cullinan said the e-mail in question did not talk about "harming" Palm, but instead asked how Microsoft could make its handheld products better than its rival's.

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Huh?

PDA Boy @ 4/29/2000 1:33:39 PM #
Exactly how has Microsoft used it's 15% market share to hurt Palm? If any one company has a monopolist hold on the PDA market...it's Palm!
RE: Huh?
Ervino @ 4/29/2000 3:57:51 PM #
Hey, GATES-boy, please be so kind to go licking M$ boots in some other place.

Many anticipated thanks.

Ervino

RE: Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/29/2000 4:17:29 PM #
Try little things like altering win2000's IR to suddenly not work with palms? The monopoly they are abusing is the desktop os, nothing to do with the Pocket PC.
RE: Huh?
PDA Boy @ 4/29/2000 7:17:28 PM #
Exactly how am I a M$ boot licker if I am both a Palm and Mac user???

Just because your ignorant doesn't mean everyone else is.

RE: Huh?
Bryan @ 5/2/2000 10:53:08 AM #
Looks like someone let the trained monkeys at the DOJ send out another press release. Let's see - MS has an itty bitty share of the handheld market, while Palm and it's licensees control the rest. So clearly we must conclude MS has used it's mind-bending monopoly powers to completely corner the PDA arena. Righty-o.

FWIW, I've been using various pre-release version of Windows 2000 back since Beta 2 and never once had any problem with my Palm devices syncing, except for the new USB drivers that Handspring hadn't even written until recently. I actually gave up on my Casio WinCE device and took an old PalmPilot Pro out of mothballs because I couldn't get the Casio work right under Win2K--but the Pilot worked just fine.

MS has had an uphill struggle against Palm, and it's clearly resulted in a big improvment in the WinCE/Pocket PC devices over the last few years. And their existence undoubtedly hurried up the introduction of more expandable devices like the Visor, the TRG Pro, and the color Palm IIIc. That is exactly how competition is supposed to work.

-Bryan

RE: Huh?
Bryan @ 5/2/2000 10:53:08 AM #
Looks like someone let the trained monkeys at the DOJ send out another press release. Let's see - MS has an itty bitty share of the handheld market, while Palm and it's licensees control the rest. So clearly we must conclude MS has used it's mind-bending monopoly powers to completely corner the PDA arena. Righty-o.

FWIW, I've been using various pre-release version of Windows 2000 back since Beta 2 and never once had any problem with my Palm devices syncing, except for the new USB drivers that Handspring hadn't even written until recently. I actually gave up on my Casio WinCE device and took an old PalmPilot Pro out of mothballs because I couldn't get the Casio work right under Win2K--but the Pilot worked just fine.

MS has had an uphill struggle against Palm, and it's clearly resulted in a big improvment in the WinCE/Pocket PC devices over the last few years. And their existence undoubtedly hurried up the introduction of more expandable devices like the Visor, the TRG Pro, and the color Palm IIIc. That is exactly how competition is supposed to work.

-Bryan

MS Willing to Change Office to Hurt Palm

Ed @ 4/29/2000 5:39:53 PM #
Here is a quote from yet another story on the Dept. of Justice's plan to break up Microsoft:

Paul Romer, a Stanford professor and government expert, said in a filing the company ``indicated a willingness to change the details of its Office applications to favor devices that run Windows operating systems, even if doing so disadvantages its customers who now rely on the Palm Pilot.''

RE: MS Willing to Change Office to Hurt Palm
PDA Boy @ 4/29/2000 7:32:23 PM #
Palm could easily counteract this by adding Quicksheet and SmartDoc with every handheld to it's corporate clients. But I really doubt that simply adding Pocket Excel and Pocket Word is going to convert legions of Palm users over to Microsoft's side.

Even though I am a Palm user, this argument does sound like the DOJ doesn't understand this market. They seem to think that Microsoft ALREADY has a monopoly in handhelds. The truth is they are struggling for their life. I didn't really mean to say that Palm is a monopoly! I was simply stating a fact that Palm has, far and away, the largest market share, and no one is investigating them. Since I am a Mac user, I can't use a Pocket PC anyway, but I do like competition in the handheld space. Competition translates into new features and lower prices. And let's face it...Palm hasn't exactly lit the world on fire lately with features.

Some facts FYI, PDA Boy...
Ervino @ 4/29/2000 9:30:08 PM #
Fact 1) The competition in the Palm field is fierce. Handspring, IBM, TRG, Symbol, Qualcomm are all producing PalmOS machine targeted at various audience. And even if Palm own the PalmOS I have no infos about "forced" incompatibility between Palm software/hardware and other producer hardware/software. M$ instead has done this with a certain constance.

Fact 2) Please learn better the laws of your own country (I assume u're american). The DoJ argument against M$ is NOT the fact the thay are a "de facto" monopoly, but that they use they predominat position to blackmail they partner to act against M$ conpetitors (i.e. "ABUSE of dominant position"), distort they products feautures to damage competitors, destroy indipendent innovation (re)producing for free what start-up companies build with effort, and so on.

Fact 3) M$ products are the epitome of bad and infleted coding. An every-day-life example? It tooks to 95 (ninty-five!) minutes to transfer my mail from OE 4.5 to OE 5.0 for Mac!!!

Should I go on?

Ervino

Three cheers for Ervino (nt)
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/29/2000 10:04:09 PM #
Right on!
RE: MS Willing to Change Office to Hurt Palm
PDA Boy @ 4/29/2000 11:38:53 PM #

You need not argue with me on this issue Ervino, Your preaching to the choir here, I for one can't stand MS. My point is that the DOJ has no clue as to what's best for the computing industry as a whole. I remember back in 98 when this trial began, Ralph Nader made a statement to the press that his solution to this case is to immediately ban Windows and require all PC makers to install Linux on their PCs! Yeah right! And if that were to actually happen, the entire PC computing world would instantly become Mac users! This proves my point. A technology world shaped by the DOJ is, in my opinion, even more terrifying than one dominated by Microsoft.

And if Microsoft does take the fall, what's left? Larry Ellison and his greedy dream of network computing? Or maybe Scott McNealy and his vision of Java thin clients in every home?

What does the future hold? Only Janet Reno and thomas "pinhead" Jackson knows....that thought alone has me pissing my pants!

RE: MS Willing to Change Office to Hurt Palm
George @ 4/30/2000 11:04:05 PM #
Who cares? Back in '96 they said they had 'Palm squarely in sights' referring to the then release of CE 1.0. Looks like they need some sharp shooting lessons as they have, so far, missed the target TWICE. This is just more of Reno's henchmen trying to rally the troops. They (MS) need to be watched, but let's not get bent out of shape: the better platform will remain on top.
RE: MS Willing to Change Office to Hurt Palm
Sandokan @ 5/1/2000 4:29:07 PM #
Again, what I see here is a lot of bickering on what is political and what is not political. The last time I checked, the American dream was Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. making a ton of money is not a crime here. Letting and huge company pay you a truck load of money to buy you out is not a crime. Trying to crush your competitors to make more money is not a crime. Allowing our government employees to punish the will to succeed SHOULD BE A CRIME. I cannot get upset at Gates wanting to be the best and make bank at the same time. Hey, my hat's off to you. I dislike more MS products than I like them. There are only a few that I use not including the OS. The OS does what I want it to do when I want it. And it gives me no grief. No reason for me to go to a competitor. I was not, however, happy with CE which is why I 'm here. CE is a poorly designed os for 1/2-ass laptops. Inefficient desktop, or bloated palmtop? Palm IIIc does what I want it to do, for now. That's why the market sways to Palm (even though they have really, really poor accounting and customer departments). Once people decide to stop letting a bunch of 2-year-olds run our country, we will be much better off. Like I said before, if this country and government was so pissed off at monopolies, why do we still have Unions and the United States Postal (so-called) Service?
RE: MS Willing to Change Office to Hurt Palm
hared_crucol@hotmail.com @ 5/1/2000 4:43:50 PM #
To all the people who say M$ should be allowed to do anything it wants in a free market, what are you going to do when they re-write Office and Exchange so that your Palm can't access it? Or rewrite Windoze so that you can't HotSync at all. You'll either buy a Pocket PC or do without. Or you could get your whole company to switch Operating Systems so you can use your handheld (right!).

A separate company that owns Office might write a version of Pocket Word or Excel for the Palm. They certainly will work hard to make sure their applications are available on as many platforms as possible. The current M$ never will.

Best on Top? Hmmm...

Ervino @ 5/1/2000 5:33:50 AM #
I wish you were right. Unfortunately the best palmtop platform (Apple Newton) has already been killed once at the beginning of 1998 thanks to the unholy agreement between Mr. "Genius" Jobs and his evil(er) twin, Dr. "Ruler of the World" Gates. Quality alone didn't always win (think at Philips Video2000 or Sony Betamax destiny too).

Ervino

Absolutely!

Eddie Willers @ 5/1/2000 5:47:42 AM #
I was in CompUSA checking out the new Palm IIIc's (of which I eventually bought one), when I overheard some disturbing comments from a customer who was researching CE devices. When the sales clerk mentioned the superiority of the Palm devices, the customer (who owns a V), stated that his company was upgrading to 'Windows 2000 and it doesn't support Palm devices, so I am forced to get one of THESE! The associate then suggested waiting for the upcoming PocketPC devices. This is exactly why breaking up the Gates machine is critical to the survival of its competitors.
RE: Absolutely!
Dave Carter @ 5/1/2000 7:59:46 AM #
My organization is also upgrading to Win2000. I just purchased a Palm IIIxe around six weeks ago, and I cannot get it to synch reliably with my Win2000 machine. It is constantly losing the connection. I have not been able to come up with a solution yet. I'm curious as to what other problems the person you oeverheard may be aware of. In the meantime, I'm hanging for on dear life to an NT Server box I've got on my desk for R&D. It's the only thing I can use to synch my Palm.
No sync problems here
Brian Meehan @ 5/1/2000 8:53:56 AM #
I have absolutely no problem synching my Palm V with Outlook 2000 on my Windows 2000 Server machine. I'm running the latest version of HotSync, and Palm OS 3.5. It's not bad at all...
RE: Absolutely!
Sandokan @ 5/1/2000 4:55:03 PM #
Problem #1:

A CompUSA employee that knows something. This is setting yourself up for failure. There is no way that MS can control everything outside of their own sandbox. I currently use IntelliSynch for EVERYTHING. Mail, To Do, Dates, etc..., and I custom design templates for everything else. There is no way that CE is going to allow me the power to combat what I can do with a Palm. I own a IIIc as well. Windows 2000 is a hybrid 98/NT OS that pretty much does the same thing as 98, but looks prettier. I have yet to make one of my software packages crash it. The only problem I have had with W2000 is VPN. Aside from that, pretty solid piece of work. I don't trust it 100%, but I haven't benched it to my full satisfaction, yet.

Problem #2

A company (bigger than 2 employees) upgrading the entire infrastructure to W2000. Any company bigger than that is not going to upgrade everyone in a company to a new operating system right out of the gate (no pun intended). They're going to beat on it as much as they can to make it fail first. That's what they like to do, blow up crap. Another thing about this is the executive level never gets excited about having to replace a ton of equipment with a ton of "like" equipment. (Unless they don't have the committment of being profitable, that is.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, having the right tolls for the Palm makes it total omnipotent (sp?). Even for a IIc for being as new as it is, it works with everything I want it to, seamlessly. CE cannot offer me that. Even communicating with its' own Outlook 2000, Palm and IntelliSynch win, hands down.

Sandokan

RE: Absolutely! (to Brian Meehan)
Dave Carter @ 5/2/2000 8:39:39 AM #
Brian, exactly what version of HotSynch Manager are you using? If I look in the "About" box on mine, it says 3.1.0 (it's what came on the CD with my IIIxe (OS 3.5). I am also using Win2000 build 2195.

Another item of interest is that I have multiple 500K+ DOC files on my Palm and one that 1MB+. Where it always seems to hang is when it's trying to back up all these extra files (although I did have it hang on me once during an AvantGo channel synch). It usually makes through the Calendar, Contacts, etc. OK and gets hung up after that. If I set my HotSynch Manager to skip the backing up of the databases, it will usually make it through the synch OK (although not always), but I know it's not any specific document that is corrupt because I have tried several times to delete the largest files and it still gets hung up at various points during the database backup. Furthermore, the same set of documents, databases, etc. back up flawlessly on NT4 and on Win95.

I spoke with Palm Tech Support last night, and, after waiting on hold for 20 minutes, the guy walked me through several setting changes (which I had already tried several times myself) only to end up telling me that he didn't know what the problems was and that he couldn't help me.

I'm just praying that I can find someone who had been through this and solved it before I get stuck in Win2000-only workplace (which is going to happen within the next 2-3 months)!

Here we go again!
Sandokan @ 5/2/2000 11:41:10 AM #
Hi Dave,

I hate to put it this way, but please refer to my article on Palm Tech Support. Forums are your best bet in this case. I made a note for your problem as I continually look for problem solutions. I will try to get some information on this as soon as I can.

Good Luck!

Sandokan

It's a Dell Problem!
Dave Carter @ 5/2/2000 1:20:52 PM #
After doing some searching of several newsgroups, I found that there is a consistent problem synching Palms under Win2000 on Dell Latitude laptops. I'll give you one guess as to what system I've got! Well, after communicating with one of the folks who had talked with Palm, Microsoft, and Dell about the issue, I found out that the only currently available workaround is to disable the IR port on the laptop. I tried it, and now I'm in HotSynch heaven! Of course, I pity the poor fool who needs to synch his Palm AND use his IR port. Hopefully, they will fix this problem in the near future!

Palm is benefiting from MS!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2000 1:45:14 AM #
Without MS's WindowsCE (and now PocketPC) do you really belive that 3com would have developed any new products after Palmpilot 1?

Without MS there would be no color Palm today.

MS, keep the pressure on so we get better Palms.

RE: Palm is benefiting from MS!
Sandokan @ 5/2/2000 3:20:19 AM #
Excellent point. Nothing brings out raw talen than gut-wrenching dissatisfaction with another product.
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