Palm Opens European Smartphone R&D Centre

If the WinMob Treo busts open the gates as I expect it to in early '06, the coffers may finally be full enough for them to get down to some serious R&D.

BTW, I STILL think that whatever "big thing" Hawkins was hinting at earlier this year in that interview is either:
A. The LifeDrive B. Vaporware

I also don't expect any big announcements for the remainder of '05 other than possibly the LD ROM update and a final Treo 650 update(s). I think the TX with its "affordable wi-fi" was THE big announcement for late '05.

At any rate, the opening of this R&D center is obviously a step in the right direction. European tech tastes can be drastically different from US preferences. It's time Palm starts to pay attention to the nuances of different markets worldwide.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

What on earth are you talking about? Certainly not the story. :)

> "...If the WinMob Treo busts open the gates..."

Yeah, like Palm needed wince in order for Treo to become the dominant smartphone platform. I mean, duh! :)

> "...the opening of this R&D center is obviously a step in the right direction. European tech tastes can be drastically different from US preferences..."

Duh. It's got nothing to do with tastes. When Palm acquired Treo it bought a huge warehouse like building filled with hundreds of people who's job is to manage US carriers and the phone-to-market process. This is a big and complex process and most companies cannot do this. Palm do not have that capability in Europe, which has allowed Symbian to proliferate in that market.

Now that Palm absolutely dominates smartphone in the US, they have taken the battle to Symbian's home ground. That's all this story is about. Nothing more. Not the next big thing. Not a new Linux OS. Not about European tastes. Sigh.

Now that wince has been whupped in the US, Palm is taking the battle to Symbian in Europe. :)

Oh, you didn't know? WinMob is going to be obsoleted in favor of a new XP Mobile OS, sometime in the next 12-18 months. All the signs are there... no M$ investment in the wince division, no innovation among wince device manufacturers, regrouping of wince division with other loser m$ divisions, Intel demonstrating Axim-sized mobile device with XP derivative and 6 hour battery life... Look for smart wince coders making the move to Palm long before that happens. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Palm could certainly make an effort to try and survive ENTIRELY on their own without PalmSource at all. Other than the nasty issue of being locked in as a licensee until, what, '09, what's to stop them from reinventing the wheel all over again.

Say what you will, the current POS Treos are not exactly setting the world on fire feature-wise.

If this is ONLY about European logistical operations then why, pray tell, the *R&D* part in the title? As in Research & Development?

The LONG-AWAITED Treo 200 (or whatever) lowend device that TVoR & I have been pleading for Palm to release could actually be cooked up in a European environment in no time flat. I could even see Palm making the boneheaded decision to only release their entry-level Treo for European and Asian markets...or some such nonsense. That's the same king of logic that drove Sony to release the TH55 in both American & Euro flavors.

Instead of fooling around with airport kiosks, gold plated styli and a harddrive in a PDA, Palm should have done something like this two years ago...and, of course, recruited some ex Handera & Sony engineers to make some REAL PDAs.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Surur

Oh, you didn't know? WinMob is going to be obsoleted in favor of a new XP Mobile OS, sometime in the next 12-18 months. All the signs are there... no M$ investment in the wince division, no innovation among wince device manufacturers, regrouping of wince division with other loser m$ divisions, Intel demonstrating Axim-sized mobile device with XP derivative and 6 hour battery life... Look for smart wince coders making the move to Palm long before that happens. :)

Get help, Kirvin/"Dr Opinion".

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

HEY! I think you discovered what "big thing" Jeff Hawkins was hinting at earlier this year in that interview!!!

...or it could have been the removal of vibrating alarms we've been clamoring for them to get rid of because we want everyone in the theatre to hear how important we are...

Well, clearly you're wrong, because Palm Treo's are the dominant smartphone platform, and every wince-powered phone has been a disaster. We don't need to debate: the Treo has already set the world on fire -- at least, as far as the buying public is concerned. Get over it! :)

> "...The LONG-AWAITED Treo [...] lowend device that TVoR & I have been pleading for Palm to release..."

Do you really think Palm would in some way benefit from the strategic suggestions of a couple of microsoft shills on a Palm message board? Bearing in mind that (1) Palm is *already* the dominant smartphone platform and the buying public is *already* buying loads of Treos, and (2) you guys shill for m$ and hate everything about Palm.... Now really. What possible value could your suggestions have? :)

I mean, duh! :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

No way is the Treo dominant in the UK - for a start Orange UK, a mobile carrier, never seems to order enough to give to customers - not to mention that they limit stocks to their business centres only . Could it be that Orange prefers promoting its relabelled (i.e. HTC ODM) WinMob devices at the Treo's expense?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

What possible value could your suggestions have?
Companies ignore customers at their peril.

Besides, what possible value do you think your comments have here?

You contradict yourself, on the one hand you say that Palm pays no attention to what's posted here yet you accuse others of being paid by Microsoft to post nasty things about Palm devices. If people here were influential then Palm would sit up and take notice; if those who browsed PIC had no influence then Microsoft wouldn't waste its money seeking influence here.

So which one is it, Dr Opinion?
Incidentally, just what are you a doctor of?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

contrast to his response regarding Treos not being dominant in the UK:

I'm sure Palm's new Irish R&D center will be focused on remedying these "problems"

Phew, so you do have some grasp of reality after all, unless you're implying that the UK and Europe are out of this world!

:-)

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

A little slow today, are we? Actually I corrected someone who'd claimed that "...the current POS Treos are not exactly setting the world on fire feature-wise...", pointing out that "Palm Treo's are the dominant smartphone platform". :)

Of course, like most Americans, I'm referring only to the US market when I make generalizations. :)

Sure. Symbian has done OK in Europe, merely because Palm hasn't been putting the boot in. Palm OS is clearly superior to Symbian (and wince, of course) in any dimension you care for: features, install base, developers, versatility, applications. :)

The combination of the new Europe R&D center to push Treo's into the channel, and the new Palm Linux OS, spells death for Symbian. Case closed. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

You know, the level of paranoia here gets really tiring and ridiculous. I've seen conversations with less spin and misinformation on Fox News. At this point, the apologists are more of a disruption than the critics--sticking their noses into every thread and attacking anybody who doesn't meet with the official Palm Politburo standards for goose-step loyalty.

By the way, what's the relevance of the Tx to a story about smartphones?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'd rather hear the uncomfortable truth than live in happy delusion, but you may be different. There's a website for people like that, called 1src.com

Otherwise, if you think some supposed fact is false, challenge it and ask for evidence. Don't support "counter-lies" instead.

Surur

but also acknowledged that Treos aren't dominant in the UK.
(http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8179#114562)

He also said Of course, like most Americans, I'm referring only to the US market when I make generalizations.
in an article refering to the European R&D centre.

Dr Opinion chides hkklife for telling the truth about Treos and states Treos are the dominant smartphone platform (setting the world on fire) yet acknowledges that they don't dominate in the UK and Europe.

A little slow today, are we?
If there's anyone here who's slow, it's you Dr Opinion, who seems to change his opinions all the time.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Adama, it might be uncomfortable for you, but what you are witnessing is the Palm community regulating the behavior of lying professional shills. Your reasons for disliking this process can remain yours: for the rest of us, it is a beautiful thing. :)

> "...in an article refering to the European R&D centre..."

No. I corrected someone who'd claimed that "...the current POS Treos are not exactly setting the world on fire feature-wise...", in a post that had nothing to do with Europe. Try to keep up. :)

In the US market, Palm OS is the dominant smartphone platform. This is indisputable. Palm is now taking the battle to Symbian's home turf. :)

Symbian has certainly done well in Europe, but Palm OS is clearly superior to Symbian (and wince, of course) in any dimension you care for: features, install base, developers, versatility, applications. The writing is on the wall for Symbian. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

hkklife's post was relevant to Europe - it's there for all to see except for yourself.
He's right when it comes to the Treo 650 being lacklustre in the features department. When you compare the Sony Ericsson K750 phone to the Treo650 it has almost all the features of the Treo 650:
- Bluetooth
- send and receive e-mail via POP3 or IMAP4 protocols
- syncs PIM with Outlook on your PC or iCal/Address Book on your Mac
- music player

the K750 even surpasses the Treo in some areas:
- A decent 2 Megapixel camera with flash compared to Treo's 0.3 Megapixel.
- 38Mb of memory compared to the Treo's 32MB
in a physically smaller space than the Treo 650
yet the K750 isn't even regarded as a smartphone!

Now compare the Treo 650 with other smartphones released at the same time, one of which was the SonyEricsson P910. That came with every feature of the Treo 650 but with 96MB of memory (64MB to the user) compared to the Treo's 32MB.

So why should it be a surprise that the Nokia and SonyEricsson Symbian smartphones are doing well in Europe? Palm opening up the R&D centre in Ireland is a sign that they recognise just how much catching up they need to do in Europe.

Let's wait and see what Palm has to offer for 2006. The P990 is only one of many smartphones which Palm's future Treo will be up against.

Announced for Q1 2006, the Sony Ericsson P990 comes with:
- quad band 3G cellular radio
- 80Mb of user memory
- the same 2 Megapixel from the K750i with flash
- wi-fi (802.11b)
- Handwriting recognition
and of course email, PIM etc etc.

Now who's going to be the first to accuse me of being a Symbian/Nokia/Sony Ericsson shill? It'll make a change from Microsoft...

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

1. incredibly immature, naive, and stupid

2. a teenager

3. all of the above

Which is it?

I assume you're still angling for a job at Palm. Face it, Kirvin: you have no qualifications. Palm has no need for a two bit hack that used to blog about using a PDA to write with.

In recent weeks, the Palmyannas seem to have gone on the offensive at Palminfocenter, apparently under the delusion that they can "counterstrike" and "take back" Palminfocenter from the critics of Palm/PalmOS. What the Palmyannas don't seem to understand is that they are unarmed and the critics are locked and loaded with a variety of weapons ranging from rifles, grenades + machine guns to nukes. The Palmyannas are getting picked off like ducks in a shooting gallery.

If anyone wants to try and defend Palm/PalmOS, the first thing they need to understand is that they have to be honest in what they say. Posting lies in an effort to support Palm/PalmOS only undermines the platform. THINK about it.

TVoR

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

DR O is entitled to an opinion. It may be a little whacky at times - but at least he's enthusiastic unlike the handful of monotonous trolls that too often contribute cruddy remarks here.

But I am getting hacked-off that a smartphone related posting has fallen into the same old trap of "my platform is better than yours".

Who gives a sh*t about this kind of infantile wrangling?

I myself am glad that Palm are at last recognising the importance of the European market, within which I am an active consumer. I would hope that their Dublin-based R&D centre will be well funded and will help to bring some much needed innovation to a market plagued with crappy Euro-Asian feature phones, pushing expensive MMS services that do not appeal to someone with my demanding tastes and requirements.

It's always safe to hide behind the big names, like Microsoft, Nokia, Symbian, etc but really interesting change often comes from outsiders. Palm are certainly outsiders in the Euro smartphone market... but things change and the recent publicity surrounding LifeDrive, Treo with WinMob and The TX is all good news that will continue to raise Palm's profile on my side of the Atlantic (e.g. the side with the larger proportion of the World's total population). Euro shoppers seem to research their purchases quite carefully, so Palm have always faired well in UK PDA sales.

So scoff all you want Palm critics - there might still be life in this here dog yet! Remember that for years, the Mac has trailed the specs of conventional PC hardware - yet today it is returning to a position of enviable strength. I'm not saying that Palm are Apple, but sometimes despite the odds, David can at least survive an encounter with Goliath!

KultiVator

Palm Pilot Pro|Palm IIIc|Tungsten T|Tungsten T3
Considering the prospect of life with a TX

(1) Palm is the dominant smartphone manufacturer. Treo's sell *extremely* well, are well received by the carriers and buying public. Treos have a huge and vibrant developer community. In fact, Treos are supported by a thriving third-party electronics consumer product community also, similar to the iPod. There is no concern about Treo "features". Hkklife was wrong. Of course, we're talking about the US market here. Not the Easter Island market. Not the Singapore market. Not the Bognor Regis Market. Try to keep up. :)

(2) In Europe Symbian has done well, since it's only committed competitor was wince, and lets face it, wince is *shocking* as a smartphone platform. No wince device has ever been well received by consumers. There are many reasons we could go into here, lack of stability, lack of applications, clumsy brick-like devices, but lets move on. :)

(3) Palm's new Smartphone R&D center in Europe will be focused on pushing Treo's into the carrier channel. Not inventing a smartphone OS. Not creating a new Linux distro. Not building RTOS feature phones. Not building wince-powered T|Xs. You guys would have to be total wads to come up with stuff like that. Hmmm. :)

OK. Now, one more time, what were you saying? :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

The Palm Treo rules the world!
The smartphones from those infidels Nokia, RIM and Microsoft have all dropped dead like rabid dogs!
There are no WinMob or Symbian devices to be seen anywhere!
Those cowardly WinMob and Symbian developers have witnessed the bravery of the mighty Palmsource and have committed suicide at its feet - there are no WinMob or Symbian developers left alive, anywhere!
Be assured, PalmSource and Palm are safe, protected!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

You want to talk about the US market because you're unable to face the fact that Treos don't dominate the European market. You tell us to try to keep up but we're not the ones referring to the US market in an article about how Palm intends to accelerate the delivery of next-generation smartphones to European mobile operators and their customers

In Europe Symbian has done well, since it's only committed competitor was wince
There are Treos in Europe as well, Treos have been at least in the UK since Handspring was a separate company. If Handspring/Palm weren't committed to the European market then they only have themselves to blame.

Palm's new Smartphone R&D center in Europe will be focused on pushing Treo's into the carrier channel That's marketing and distribution, not research and development. My inference is that they'll be designing smartphones specific to the European market and making changes to whatever OS will be running on the Treos so that they better suit the European carriers' requirements.

You guys would have to be total wads to come up with stuff like that. Hmmm.
You should know, what's the old saying, it takes one to know one?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

I want to talk about the US market, because that's where I live, idiot! Palm OS Treos dominate the US market. :)

Treo's don't dominate Europe. Symbian owns the market there. This is simply because Palm has not focused on that market until now. Now that there is a Palm R&D center focused on the European smartphone market, Symbian will be crushed. Easy! You sound stupid when you keep whining on about this. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Now isn't that just charming and ironic, Comical Ali/Dr Opinion calls me an idiot and stupid because he wants to talk about the US market when the article's about Palm's European R&D centre and how it'll speed up the delivery of its smartphones into the European market.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, he wants to live within his delusions. Let's hope Dr Opinion/Comical Ali isn't close to any highways or railway lines - the paramedics have enough to do as it is, it's not fair on them.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

"I want to talk about the US market, because that's where I live, idiot! Palm OS Treos dominate the US market. :)"

But, this is an article about 'Palm Opens European Smartphone R&D Centre'. Treos have been here since Handspring released them 2 years ago, mine here has the little cross logo on it. The fact of the matter is Treos did not sell well in the Euro markey because they looked terrible compared to other phones. Anyone who saw mine phone went 'oh, lots of keys' then went 'Why has it got that massive aerial?'.

Having read your posts Dr O. I can only guess that you are laughing your arse off as you write them since no-one could possible believe some of the things you say unless they have been kidnapped by an elite squad of Palmistas and brain washed to believe utter crap......

Fish

Symbian has done OK in Europe, merely because Palm hasn't been putting the boot in.

becomes

Symbian has certainly done well in Europe, but Palm OS is clearly superior to Symbian (and wince, of course) in any dimension you care for: features, install base, developers, versatility, applications. The writing is on the wall for Symbian. :)

becomes

In Europe Symbian has done well, since it's only committed competitor was wince, and lets face it, wince is *shocking* as a smartphone platform. No wince device has ever been well received by consumers. There are many reasons we could go into here, lack of stability, lack of applications, clumsy brick-like devices, but lets move on. :)

becomes

Treo's don't dominate Europe. Symbian owns the market there. This is simply because Palm has not focused on that market until now.

Is this the FICTION you were planning on writing now that you've supposedly given up your role as a PDA commentator, Kirvin?

Are you still working at the CompUSA in Denver?

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

2- Unicode/multilingual support. After living in London and Slovakia, I have family, friends and associates from France, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic, Sweden, Slovakia etc all with characters extra to the English alphabet. My position is by no means uncommon in Europe, it's not unknown for people to even commute daily between countries as part of their work.
It'll be nice to have a Treo which handles several European languages and characters without any system hacks. Therefore Unicode support in the Treo will be ideal. There are many who are bilingual or multilingual by necessity in Europe.

3- Time zone support in Calendar - yes, even Europe crosses a couple of time zones but this feature would benefit the American market too. Let's say you set an appointment for 2pm New York time then travel to Los Angeles and set your Treo to LA time. Your appointment reminder should then ring at 11am Los Angeles time.

And of course it'll have to have vibrating alert and voice recording. :-)

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

rumour has it that kirvin is now holed up in his apartment in Denver surrounded by nothing but dirty clothes, empty scribbled-on pizza boxes, and non-working computer parts. most if not all of the utilities were cut off weeks ago.

i understand that MikeCon is suffering a similiar fate.

I don't post here in order to advertise - I don't have an axe to grind or a barrow to push*. However, sometimes I can't help responding to the more innane or malicious comments made at PIC.

* with one exception - I despise the attitude that every Palm unit must have every imaginable 'feature' regardless of the cost and regardless of form factor. I think it's important that Palm continues to make basic units which don't have all the bells and whistles, so that consumers are given a choice in what they pay for.

Don't forget the classic: those dogs at Palm will roast their stomachs at the gates of Redmond; they are all doomed.

Sounds like my place (ie, 'she who must be obeyed' is away on a business trip again) :^)

Don't say that too loudly, Geeko, or Voice-of-Dumbness might get a fixation about your ass. That seems to happen anytime people disagree with him. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Don't be a sucker, Gekko. Read his posts and you'll see for yourself. Ryan can also confirm this independently:

Dr Opinion = Jeff Kirvin

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823