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Intellisync To Be Acquired By Nokia

Intellisync Corporation announced today that Intellisync has signed a definitive agreement to be acquired by Nokia. Intellisync stockholders will receive USD 5.25 per share in cash for each Intellisync common share making the deal worth about $430 million.

This acquisition, which is subject to customary regulatory approvals and the approval of Intellisync’s shareholders, underscores Intellisync’s position in the mobile industry and its leadership in the carrier and enterprise markets in providing multi-device, multi-platform wireless software, mobile applications and synchronization. The acquisition of Intellisync supports Nokia’s goal to be the leader in enterprise mobility and enhances the ability of its customers to connect devices to data sources, applications and networks.

Intellisync has been at the forefront in enterprise mobility applications and device mobility with its wireless messaging software and delivers some of the largest deployments of wireless email and mobile software over the widest array of devices and application platforms across enterprises and carrier networks all over the world. Intellisync technology allows for synchronization of data and files with high levels of accuracy and security across some of the most complex software applications. Over the past few years Intellisync has created a leading brand in the mobile software market with an award-winning wireless portfolio.

Building on the recent launch of Nokia Business Center, a software solution enabling push email and other collaborative business applications, this acquisition underscores Nokia’s commitment to be the leader in enterprise mobility. With Intellisync, Nokia will be able to offer its customers the ability to connect practically any device to any data source, application, or network, empowering companies as they make mobility a de facto way of doing business.

“This agreement recognizes the key roles that Intellisync and our people play in the mobile market, and reflects the power of our brand, our products, our team and our technology,” said Woodson ‘Woody’ Hobbs, president and chief executive officer of Intellisync. “Our combined teams will present the most compelling mobility offering to enterprises and carriers all over the world. With a platform-independent and device-agnostic mobile software offering, Intellisync has long been committed to delivering on the mobility needs of wireless carriers and enterprises, and we’ve built a leadership brand in the mobile marketplace. Intellisync’s market leadership in platform-independent push email, device and systems management, mobile application deployment, integrated messaging, data and file synchronization, and mobile security is validation of the company’s success with carriers and enterprise customers alike.”

The acquisition is expected to be completed within three to four months, pending regulatory approval, other customary closing conditions and the approval of Intellisync’s shareholder.

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More Valuable than Palmsource

LiveFaith @ 11/16/2005 2:11:41 PM # Q
Put's the Access deal into some perspective. Palmsource was considered a bit rich at $18.50 is only 2/3 the value of the Intellisync sale. Perspective gained.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
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This sucks for PalmOS users! What about PDAapps now?

gfunkmagic @ 11/16/2005 2:39:29 PM # Q
YUK! If you recall, PDAapps wo are the makers of applications like Verichat was recently acquired Intellisync themselves! That means popular apps like Verrchat are now owned by friggin NOKIA!?!!

Having Nokia own so many important palmos applications cannot be good for the palmos economy...

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: What about PDAapps now?
Sam H @ 11/16/2005 4:21:11 PM # Q
They get ported to maemo?
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Nokia still ramping up.

sr4 @ 11/16/2005 3:28:38 PM # Q

This agrees with my earlier thesis, that Nokia is still in the early phase of making their devices suitable for business use. Imagine if Palm only bought Hotsync or MS introduced Activesync (yes, bugs, I know) at this late stage. Nokia still has far to go to be a serious business contender (2 years maybe?)

Surur

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Wireless Sync Held Hostage?

Gekko @ 11/16/2005 3:38:13 PM # Q

Many corporate users who have Verizon, Sprint, Cingular as their provider use the ROM-included "Wireless Sync" App to sync to their corporate email servers. I hope Nokia doesn't hold it hostage.



RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
cervezas @ 11/16/2005 5:45:56 PM # Q
Gekko has a point. Intellisync has become the 800lb gorilla of enterprise synchronization in part by covering all the platforms: Palm, Windows Mobile and Symbian. They are RIM's top competitor in this area. This acquisition effectively takes Intellisync out of Palm's enterprise data sync and push email ecosystem.

It was getting a little crowded there anyway, what with Visto, ExtendedSystems, Consilient and others providing similar capabilities for Palm devices, but Intellisync has done a lot to keep the Treo competitive with the push email and PIM available on the BlackBerry. There are a lot of big deployments out there that are now probably now going to have to be revisited with an eye toward finding replacement technologies.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
AdamaDBrown @ 11/16/2005 8:04:41 PM # Q
It would be incredibly stupid of Nokia to restrict Intellisync to their own devices... but then this is Nokia we're talking about. Sometimes smart doesn't enter the equation.

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
Scott R @ 11/16/2005 8:41:20 PM # Q
Why would it be stupid of Nokia to do this? Do you mean from a financial standpoint? If so, I'd imagine that Nokia can get by without the money and could be smart to withhold it for competitive reasons. IMO, it has been far dumber of Palm, Sony, et al to keep much of their proprietary software exclusive to their devices when they could have made some coin selling it as 3rd party apps to owners of other Palm OS devices (e.g., Blazer 4.0, the sketchpad Memo/Notepad app, etc.).

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
cervezas @ 11/16/2005 9:30:03 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown wrote:
It would be incredibly stupid of Nokia to restrict Intellisync to their own devices

It won't matter whether they do or not. What will matter is the perception on the part of enterprise customers that non-Nokia devices will be second-class citizens with regard to the Intellisync products. There's not much Nokia can do about that perception, so from here on out Intellisync will be regarded as a primarily a Symbian product.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
truffle1234 @ 11/16/2005 10:10:05 PM # Q
I just want to clarify one thing that nokia is not way behind Palm and Pocket PC in the business devices, and even the devices are running on slow processors they are more stable and eating less battery...

And as they bought the Intellisync, that is to compliment the business phones 9500, 9300, as these devices already have blackberry, and remote database access, so now Intellisync will go one step further.

I was a palm user since Palm Pilot and my last palm was T3, and as now i am using 9500 with Blackberry, i do not think i can go back to the PDA, as i am hooked to the keyboard, and wide screen of 9500. And the battery life is good and the Wifi is built in. The sync to the PC is seamless.

So guys I understand all those palm fan who do not want any other device but palm... I think they should try different things in the market, but if you all need a toy to entertain you then you should stick to the Palm PDA...


Palm Pilot, Palm V, Sony Clie T600, Palm T3, Nokia 9500

It's A Question of Perspective
ChiA @ 11/17/2005 2:46:16 AM # Q
truffle1234 said if you all need a toy to entertain you then you should stick to the Palm PDA...

Palm OS (and PocketPC) has lots of useful, relevant software for medics and healthcare professionals; there's nothing worthwhile for Nokia's Symbian devices - one of the reasons I stick to the Palm OS.

Next time you're at the clinic or even taking a tablet, be grateful that the Palm PDA 'toy' has contributed to keeping you alive and in good health.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
Gekko @ 11/17/2005 8:36:47 AM # Q

I'm seeing more and more WM/PPC ***PDAs*** in these "Niche" sectors like Health Care, Financial, Industrial, etc. than I'm seeing any PalmOS devices. I think WM/PPC has won the Enterprise PDA niche market. I don't see this changing as the power of MSFT to leverage their existing technology and relationships in this matured PDA market. Also, FrankenGarnet just can't keep up anymore with WM/PPC in these industrial PDA applications.

As far as Smartphones, I see lots and lots of Treos - and for now PalmOS is still winning because of the success of the Treo. I predict this will start to change once the WM Treo hits the streets and you will see a rapid loss of market share for PalmOS in the smartphone market too.

PalmLinux? Don't hold your breath. If and when ACCESS decides to create/release such an animal, it will take at least ONE YEAR for Palm to release a device running it. A year is a lifetime in this business. TOO LATE.



What's that smell?
cervezas @ 11/17/2005 8:53:24 AM # Q
Gekko's gratuitous daily "Palm is dead" shtick finds its way into every topic of discussion like a fart in the room, doesn't it?

He wrote: I'm seeing more and more WM/PPC ***PDAs*** in these "Niche" sectors like Health Care, Financial, Industrial, etc. than I'm seeing any PalmOS devices. I think WM/PPC has won the Enterprise PDA niche market.

Health care is still PalmOS-dominated, so I think you're just wrong on that one. Also, you may see a lot of different WM PDAs from various vendors, but the Palm Tungsten's (and "T") are still by far the most popular single line of PDAs.

As for Palm OS for Linux coming too late, I think you should explain this to the wireless operators and device vendors who are pushing so hard for a Linux phone platform and helping to found industry groups like the Linux Phone Standards Forum. You obviously know something that they don't.

Not.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
Gekko @ 11/17/2005 8:58:38 AM # Q

"In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone." - Bill Gates



RE: It's A Question of Perspective
T. @ 11/17/2005 9:23:55 AM # Q
truffle1234 said ...if you all need a toy to entertain you then you should stick to the Palm PDA...

I now have switched to a TX but utilized my T3 for almost two years.

During a typical day I would scan the production facility and enter status information into my program schedules using Natara's Proj@Hand. When I got back to my office, I would sync it into MS Project 2003 and have a updated schedule available for review and a staus meeting scheduled for later in the day.

Just then my phone rang. There is a differential GPS positioning system in Saudi Arabia and the reference station is not operating properly. The engineering team works to determine if the problem can be solved locally. I verify the configuration and firmware information for the particular site using SmartList ToGo on my T3 which is synchronized with a larger database on the corporate network.

After a concerted effort to solve the problem remotely it is determined that a site visit will be required to run some diagnostic code and take additional data. Because of the politically charged nature of the problem it is determined that I should go. Since a visa is required, I drive to the consulate to expedite obtaining it. I obtain the address of the consulate using Verichat and a predefined BuddyMark on my T3. I enter that information into SA2005HH on my T3 which is bluetoothed to a Delorme GPS to quickly find the consulate.

On the plane, I continue to review the problem by going through old correspondence and problem reports loaded on my SD card using Docs To Go. The flight to Saudi is long but my PTG sleds let me run the T3 nonstop. I occasionally listen to MP3s or watch movies but there is too much to review.

At a one night stay in Riyadh, I download the latest code that the engineering team had continued to work on while I was in transit. I use the Palm WiFi card and a 3Com 11g Travel Access Point to hook up to the cabled network in the hotel room.

After a four hour drive to the site, I take the SD card out of the T3 and use a KingMax SD/MMC Card Reader to load the code onto the systems embedded processor. I monitor system activity and control the update using pTelnet terminal emulation software on my T3 talking over bluetooth to a Free2Move RS232/Bluetooth adapter (I occasionally just use a cable from www.thesupplynet.com). The landscape mode and UWK makes data entry and data monitoring easy. I log some diagnostic data and use my Palm Modem to upload the data back to the engineers that are stateside (there is only phone access at the site). I go to bed.

When I awake, the updated code is ready which I then download and install, again using only my T3. The update works flawlessly and we all celebrate with some fizzy cider (sorry, no alchohol in Saudi).

Thank goodness I bought my toy. Now how exactly do you use that Nokia?

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
Gekko @ 11/17/2005 9:23:58 AM # Q

beersie - i'm in various metropolitan businesses every day, and i see first hand what's out there. i'm not cooped up in my basement in the colorado sticks sipping hot chocolate and eating doughnuts staring at my computer screen hoping that palmos regains market share.



RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
LiveFaith @ 11/17/2005 9:32:33 AM # Q
"Gordon, you always told me not to get emotional about stocks." - Bud Fox

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
hkklife @ 11/17/2005 9:42:24 AM # Q
David;

I'm afraid I am going to have to side with Gekko on this one, pal.

In and out of the course of normal "non-tech" business dealings, I see a numer of middle management/small biz owners/salesmen/agents still fielding PDAs. Only problem is that they are either midrange HPs or Dells, some flavor of Windows Smartphone or the occasional older Palm. And by "older" I mean a T|E qualifies as new and the older side of things is propped up by m125s/m500s/V/Handspring Visors. I see a Treo 600 quite frequently but not so many 650s.

Remember, these people either carry what they are equipped with by their employer or whatever they care to fund out of pocket to make their lives easier. As long as a basic Visor Pro still does the job they'll keep using them. And many of them just ditechd their Treo 600 when their contract ran out and switched to Cingular just to get a RAZR. Style over substance, as always. I've yet, however, to personally meet anyone with a RAZR who was unsatisfied with it.

Healthcare seems to be drastically shifting in favor of WinMob but I do admittedly know of a number of doctors & nurses who carry T|Cs or, at least, were carrying them the last time I spoke to/saw them.

Remember, David, healthcare is now passe. <$100 consumer-oriented offerings are key to increasing Palm's marketshare. TVoR and I have identified the crucial MILF market as the next untapped segment where Palm is looking to score(!). The Z22 is the ideal candidate for an quick entry (!) into this area.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
cervezas @ 11/17/2005 10:18:37 AM # Q
Just for the record, Gekko, I currently work for clients in Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, and Washington, D.C. and travel through at least two major airports on a twice-weekly basis. This gives me plenty of time to observe actual mobile technology usage both within the enterprise and in airports where these devices really come out.

Now, we've done our share of PocketPC and BlackBerry deployments for customers, but in my travels what I see more than any single mobile device are Treos--more than BlackBerries, I'm tempted to say even more than iPods. I'm not saying there are more Treos sold than BlackBerries or iPods, just that among the maybe 50 business people I notice each week carrying and using mobile devices in the Chicago and Denver metro areas Treos are what I see most.

I'd say my sample is skewed by the following: I see a very large number of air travellers, which are probably disproportiately people working in sales--a power user profile. I know the BlackBerries are much more popular with executive types who travel less frequently and mainly want a simple email device. Also it could have something to do with the fact that Palm advertises very heavily in Chicago, which is where I spend the most time these days. I see more big Treo ads here than I do in San Francisco, which is saying a lot!

I fully expect the Windows Treo to enable Microsoft to finally break into the US smartphone market in a significant way. But I also expect the Palm OS 3G Treos that come out a few months later will give them an interesting run for their money. Palm OS is not going away any time soon even if it's 18 months before we see the first Palm Linux devices.

hkklife, to be honest with you, I don't see as many PDAs of any kind in use or in cradles in peoples' offices these days--not like I do smartphones. Of the ones I see I agree that there are quite a few older Palm devices: I notice Clies, older Tungsten T and E models, and even the odd Visor or M150. It's difficult to get hard numbers, but from what I've heard the Tungsten E and E2 each probably sold more than any single PDA ever. I expect the TX to do extremely well, too, although I may not see a lot of them in my particular circles.

As for the MILF market I'm keeping a close eye on that one. 8)



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
SeldomVisitor @ 11/17/2005 10:51:40 AM # Q
In a hospital I watched a doc feverishly use her Blackberry to look up stuff.

At my personal physician's Internal Medicine office they use some form of uSoft-based tablet-like handhelds (about the size of a paperback book when opened - almost a "chiclet" keyboard, for example).

I've never seen anyone except some geek(s) use a TREO or any other PALM device for official reasons (actually, the geeks I have seen use a TREO were the standard early-adopters, not some form of corporate must-do/must-have use - and I've seen as many nonPalm devices used by corporate users as TREOs).

YMMV, of course, but I'm personally not seeing anything interesting "out there".

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
Surur @ 11/17/2005 11:36:09 AM # Q
The main reason for the success of the T3 and T5 is the death of competition in the palm space. If you want a Palm OS handheld, its Palm or nothing. Same for a Palm OS phone. Colligan's presentation from yesterday confirmed that three quarters of Treo users were people who upgraded from two devices to a convergent device. Thats not growth, its cannabalism. This is evident by the flat shipment numbers.

Palm is a USA phenomena. I wonder what percentage of their devices are sold to the rest of the world who do not have prior nostalgic experience with Palm Os. The USA has shown on previous occasions that they are prepared to go this own way (eg CDMA) Maybe this is one of those occasions?

Surur

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
cervezas @ 11/17/2005 12:00:39 PM # Q
Surer wrote:
Palm is a USA phenomena. I wonder what percentage of their devices are sold to the rest of the world who do not have prior nostalgic experience with Palm Os. The USA has shown on previous occasions that they are prepared to go this own way (eg CDMA) Maybe this is one of those occasions?

Palm OS has deeper roots in China than Windows Mobile. And CDMA is very big there. India, too. Your perspective is a bit Euro-centric, IMO.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
T. @ 11/17/2005 12:01:53 PM # Q
Geeks - I guess that would be me.

I use my TX a lot in meetings at customer sites. I enter notes using Natara's DayNotez. When I get some free time I can review the notes and easily create tickler and hard date to-do's based on any relevant action items. I sometimes get the "oh, look at this geek" look but the end result is that no-one ever needs to come up to me and say "Hey weren't you going to do this a while ago....".

Sometimes in these meetings, the VP of the IT department (or whatever) will look at my Palm and then pull out his Axim, fiddle with it for a few seconds and then put it away. I ask him later why he picked that particular device and the only thing he can say is "....'cause it's Windows". I ask how he uses it and he'll say something profound like "contacts" but the bottom line is he uses 1/10 of the devices capability. Reminds me of the guys buying IBM PCs at twice the price just because they were IBM.

The bottom line is that they both can be useful tools to someone (geek or not)if you put in the effort to figure out how they can make you more efficient.

saysat he liked about

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
hkklife @ 11/17/2005 12:16:39 PM # Q
Most of your "average" joes here in the USA aren't even aware of CDMA vs. GSM and the global ramifications of GSM support vs. CDMA (yes, I know CDMA is big in India, Korea and some smaller countries but it's primarily utilized in the USA).

Most of your average cellphone user just ends up with thinking "Verizon might have shiiity looking, oversized handsets but their coverage sure is good. Why do all of the carriers with bad coverage like Cingular & T-Mobile have all of those nifty little stylish phones?"


The Palm/Treo/WInMob phenomenon is the same way. Non-techie types basically look at the mobile market in four categories.

Bear with me as I use layman terminology and make sweeping generalizations based on what I an others have emerged over the past two years or so:

1. "Palm Pilots". These are considere sooooo 1999 in most circles. See my statement about people still clinging to their old Palm Vs, m100s, T|Es etc just because they (still) "work" and their PIM needs are quite basic.

2. Treos. These are seen as "kinda ugly, kinda large" but until recently (?) carried some clout for those that actually USED them. I fear that many executive types will end up going back to a RAZR or something similar once they realized they ponied up big $ for a Treo only to use it as....a phone and barely scratch the surface of its PDA capabilities, not to mention being completely ignorant of multimedia, the SD slot etc.

3. Windows PDAs. For the fields I and others mentioned earlier, these are seen as the choice for those in certain fields who still want to use a "PDA" of some sort and want to carry something produced in the last two years.

4. "Windows Phones". By virtue of sheer numbers (Verizon carries, what, 4 or soon to be 5 WinMob handsets to the lone Treo 650?) these are going to make their presence felt and get some sales.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
sr4 @ 11/17/2005 4:33:07 PM # Q
"Palm OS has deeper roots in China than Windows Mobile."

I dont really know what you mean by this, or how you measure it, but I think, based on the large number of WM ODM's in the East, and the fact that the vast majority of WM device sales are outside US, vs 75% of Palm revenue coming from USA, that WM has a much larger mind share in the East.

As an example of what people are talking about/ reviewing/ selling on the Internet, google search results can be quite telling.
e.g.

For the search "palm os" OR palmos site:cn (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22palm+os%22+OR+palmos+site%3A.cn&meta= ) we get 626 000 results.

For "windows mobile" site:cn ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22windows+mobile%22+site%3A.cn&meta= ) we get 1 580 000 results.

Repeated for japan: (jp)
POS 706 000
WM 1960 000

Taiwan (tw)
POS 51 100
WM 302 000

Singapore (sg)
POS 83 300
WM 291 000

So it appears to me that WM is much deeply routed in the Far East, or at least much better represented on their local web.

Interestingly for the whole internet, its more like POS 19 500 000 vs WM 20 000 000. This probably demonstrates POS's legacy in the largest part of the internet, USA.

Surur

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
Timothy Rapson @ 11/17/2005 7:03:23 PM # Q
While working today I met a young lady who had set up a table to catch local college students and sign them up for CTI credit cards.

She had two HP laptops, but the intrigueing items were 5 shiney little silver models that I first thought might be Clies.
They were Sharp Zaurii with flat keyboards for her to hand to students to fill out their applications with. I expect they were wirelessly connected to her laptop and here is the odd part. They had all the Japanese logos and special keys. The QWERTYs were like ours but they were obviously Japanese models imported. She told me they cost $1500 each! I am guessing that is the replacement cost WITH the specially installed software CTI ordered them with.
I grinned as I thought of someone like Beers having written that sortware and sold the whole package to CTI. Clever.
Of course, they could have gotten 5 full laptops with WiFi for less, but batteries, theft (who would steal what looked like toy entry devices?), and mobility probably made the Zaurii good choices. Wonder why no one makes a WinMob or Palm device like that for that purpose? I guess the market would be very limited.

RE: Wireless Sync Held Hostage?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/18/2005 12:41:33 AM # Q
TVoR and I have identified the crucial MILF market as the next untapped segment where Palm is looking to score(!). The Z22 is the ideal candidate for an quick entry (!) into this area.

But Palm will face some stiff competition from Windows Mobile. Generally, companies now have to go to great lengths to satisfy the MILF Market. MILFs tend to be very experienced customers who don't automatically swallow everything they're given.


TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I am T. (PHEER me!)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/18/2005 12:49:30 AM # Q
RE: It's A Question of Perspective
T. @ 11/17/2005 9:23:55 AM #

During a typical day I would scan the production facility and enter status information into my program schedules using Natara's Proj@Hand. When I got back to my office, I would sync it into MS Project 2003 and have a updated schedule available for review and a staus meeting scheduled for later in the day.

Just then my phone rang.

[SNIP truly frightening uber-geek wet dream believed by no one]

Thank goodness I bought my toy. Now how exactly do you use that Nokia?

Get a laptop, Bubba. Your life would be a LOT simpler. Proof of comcept does not equal practicality for REAL PEOPLE. (Nice try, McGyver.)


TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

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