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Palm Focusing Exclusively on webOS Going Forward

palm webos During today's investor quarterly conference call, Palm Chairman and CEO Jon Rubinstein announced that Palm will be focusing exclusively on webOS going forward. Rubinstein stated that all engineering and product development from here on out will be dedicated to webOS platform. His exact comments were:

Given the importance of webOS to our overall strategy, we've made the decision to dedicate all future development resources to the evolution of webOS, which means that going forward our roadmap will include only Palm webOS- based devices.

The remarks bring an uneventful end to Palm's Windows Mobile experiment and long history of Palm OS based devices. While there are still some Palm Centro's and Treo Pro's actively being sold in current channels, these now seem to be destined to be the last of their kind.

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Goodbye Windows Mobile

Tim Carroll @ 9/17/2009 1:36:42 PM # Q
Ruby just said that they're giving WinMob the flick, "only webOS" in the future.
Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 680 --> Centro
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
Gekko @ 9/17/2009 2:00:11 PM # Q
what about my beloved FrankenGarnet?

i hope iPhone/a good Android/WinMob 7 is at Sprint soon.

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
Tim Carroll @ 9/17/2009 2:01:12 PM # Q
FrankenGarnet has been doused in holy water and shot in the head at point-blank range. Ruby's face is spattered with the blood.

Sorry, Gekko. I'll miss it too. :(

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
Gekko @ 9/17/2009 2:09:01 PM # Q
WebOS does not have a usable Calendar app or PIM. period. the "Synergy" feature makes the PIM "dog slow", buggy, and unusable. no serious PIM/business user can tolerate it.
RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
mikecane @ 9/17/2009 2:58:29 PM # Q
Yo, Gekko, have you tried a Pre since the numerous updates? Maybe you should give it another shot?

There's the HTC Hero with Android coming up.

Thank God there's one less WinMob licensee in the world!!

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
deucalion @ 9/17/2009 3:35:22 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:
WebOS does not have a usable Calendar app or PIM. period. the "Synergy" feature makes the PIM "dog slow", buggy, and unusable. no serious PIM/business user can tolerate it.

You're preaching to the choir. For as long as I used PalmOS, ever since I'm with my Treo Pro on Windows Mobile I've stayed there and commited to continue doing so until another mobile OS steps up and offers meaningful and complete synchronisation with Outlook and/or Notes. The solutions currently on the market for Symbian and WebOS are rather useless for me...

I guess I once was a fan of Palm and no longer am. Unless they step up and offer a solution that offers at least the same functionality PalmOS had with its Calendar and Tasks application they lost a client with me.
--
T|E -> T|X -> (N80IE?)

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
Gekko @ 9/17/2009 4:02:30 PM # Q
>Yo, Gekko, have you tried a Pre since the numerous updates? Maybe you should give it another shot?

WTF? what's happened to you? what's with this unbridled optimism? or is it naivete? or gullibility? from what i read - the updates have made it WORSE!

my pessimism is my defense mechanism.

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
SeldomVisitor @ 9/18/2009 3:38:27 AM # Q
Better yet, try the Cliq - better Synergy, better PIM, lower price.

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
mikecane @ 9/18/2009 8:48:03 AM # Q
>>>from what i read - the updates have made it WORSE!

Oh, I see. You've been actually READING things. I haven't.

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
rpa @ 9/18/2009 7:59:30 PM # Q
It baffles me why Palm does not see the importance of a seamless sync with Outlook running on a desktop. This is the KEY benefit of Palm over Symbian IMO. I haven't tried WinMo and don't believe Android has a sync app yet but Garnet works beautifully. I am still using my T|E (my Centro has freeze issues) and a cheap Moto flip phone and will continue to do so until the T|E dies.

I read that Access may be exploring the possibility of a Garnet-powered device. Has anyone heard news on this front?

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
hkklife @ 9/19/2009 12:13:53 AM # Q
There have been many, many, many, MANY baffling choices, actions, and decisions made by the Palm braintrust over the years. Did you really expect them to change for the better?

In mean, they've mind-bogglingly managed to break the handful of things that WERE working prior to WebOS (intuitive usability, easy desktop synchonization & PIM) while addressing Garnet's primary shortcomings (web browsing, multitasking, & multimedia).

As far as your other question, I've got an Access-related story coming soon.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
SeldomVisitor @ 9/19/2009 3:18:25 AM # Q
I sincerely believe the Zen of Palm left with Hawkins. I personally do NOT give Hawkins much credit for much of anything, however I believe he was anal about UI thangs.

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
Gekko @ 9/19/2009 9:37:42 AM # Q
RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
mikecane @ 9/19/2009 4:12:07 PM # Q
GEKKO!!!! A friend gave me a copy of that on a pre-DMCA cassette copy back in the early 80s. I was just thinking about that song recently but didn't know wtf did it! THANKS! God, I LOVE THE INTERNET!!
RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
SeldomVisitor @ 9/20/2009 4:09:25 AM # Q
W.r.t. "Goodbye Windows Mobile"...well...no.

Microsoft is possibly introing two of its OWN phones at CES:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/19/microsofts-project-pink-finally-bearing-fruit-in-2010-with-two/

Since they have years and years of experience placing their own OSes on a WIDE variety of phones, there's a fairly good chance, IMHO, that they might hit the ground running if they actually do put out phones.

WinMo anyone?

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
abosco @ 9/20/2009 5:31:43 AM # M Q
I disagree. In the next few years, I see Windows Mobile and Android competing for those irrelevant 10% HTC marketshare dollars. An AT&T Tilt with Android is no more compelling than one with Windows Mobile. They are both really just becoming catch-all operating systems.
RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
twrock @ 9/20/2009 7:45:35 AM # Q

WinMo anyone?

No.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Goodbye Windows Mobile
Tim Carroll @ 9/20/2009 3:54:03 PM # Q
I disagree. In the next few years, I see Windows Mobile and Android competing for those irrelevant 10% HTC marketshare dollars. An AT&T Tilt with Android is no more compelling than one with Windows Mobile. They are both really just becoming catch-all operating systems.

This. Exactly this.

Reply to this comment

Good bye whiners.

loftwyr @ 9/17/2009 5:20:20 PM # Q
It's so good to see all the defectors finally getting what they want. A reason to leave this site behind and go gripe somewhere else.

You'll be missed. No, you won't but I promise we won't cheer too loudly on your way out. Gekko, can you lead the way?
PalmPilot Pro -> Palm 3 -> Palm 5 -> Palm 505 -> Palm T3 -> Treo 700p -> Pre

RE: Good bye whiners.
Gekko @ 9/17/2009 5:33:08 PM # Q

Excuse me, are you an entertainer? Are you in show business?

No?

Then what am I talking to you for?

RE: Good bye whiners.
mikecane @ 9/18/2009 8:51:19 AM # Q
RE: Good bye whiners.
Gekko @ 9/19/2009 9:41:58 AM # Q

it was pat cooper in seinfeld.
RE: Good bye whiners.
mikecane @ 9/19/2009 4:06:28 PM # Q
I like my clip better.
Reply to this comment

*only* 7-8 years too late

pmjoe @ 9/17/2009 5:40:44 PM # Q
Hopefully Palm can recover from nearly a decade of OS neglect.
RE: *only* 7-8 years too late
LiveFaith @ 9/17/2009 11:07:15 PM # Q
What?!? That's stupid.

Have you not seen the new Palm OS search feature. It is much better than on my T3, m505, Vx etc. The old version only lasted 4-5 seconds when searching my device for terms. Now, the new one takes 2-3 minutes!!! That's a lot more searching for your money and much more entertaining.

Not to mention the PC side improvements of Palm Desktop v6.x from Palmsource (Access) itself. Gets rid of all those ridiculous features like color coded calendar categories and a host of other features. Plus lots of chances to re-enter your data after syncing loses it on one or both sides. The really helps keep you more focused on whether your data is there or not.

I won't even go into the power and simplicity of the FoleOS.

Never rest Palm. Never rest. :-D
Pat Horne

RE: *only* 7-8 years too late
mikecane @ 9/18/2009 8:52:43 AM # Q
>>>The old version only lasted 4-5 seconds when searching my device for terms. Now, the new one takes 2-3 minutes!!! That's a lot more searching for your money and much more entertaining.

LMAO!!!

Reply to this comment

and this just in: Water is still wet!

bhartman34 @ 9/17/2009 6:50:29 PM # Q
C'mon, people! did anyone seriously expect more FrankenGarnet insanity, let alone another WinMob phone from Palm?! Anyone who wants a FrankenGarnet phone has plenty to choose from at this point. You can get yourself a 755p off of Ebay for < $100, if you really want one.

Some of the functions from the old Palm apps are missing, but some of the functions just work differently. The ability to have categories for events in your calendar is a good example. You can have "Work" events and "Personal" events in your Calendar view on the Pre. The only difference is that they need to be on separate accounts. That makes sense to me, though. I don't keep personal events on my work calendar, because people at work don't need to see my personal events. The reverse is also true.

Granted, other functions, like adding people to events, would be nice. I'm sure that's coming, though. WebOS 1.2 already lets you add reminders to people's contact information, so I'm sure adding people to the calendar isn't going to be too far behind.

I think it's important, also, not to play PalmOS's PIM abilities up too much. Lots of people eschewed the built-in contacts and calendar in favor of DateBk and Agendus, for example. I fully expect apps like that to come in and fill the void.

I"ll admit a certain nostalgia for the way PalmOS worked, but WebOS has the potential to be much more powerful. (I got one of those "It looks like you'll be late to your appointment. Would you like to send an e-mail?" messages a few days ago. It was actually kinda cool, even though it was just for an appointment I canceled and forgot to take off my calendar.)

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
Gekko @ 9/17/2009 7:15:49 PM # Q

larnapp said:

my real problem with the calendar is the overall implementation of various features and functions and in many cases, the complete lack of industry-standard calendar features altogether.

For example,

* it takes far too many steps (taps & animated pop-ups) to make an appointment
* if an appointment title contains the "&" symbol, it cannot be changed on the Pre because changes won't sync back to the Google calendar - So you're thinking, 'well, that's just a bug, they'll fix it eventually.' Actually, the bug used to be if there was ANY symbol in an appointment title it wouldn't sync. They fixed that bug with the 1.1 update but somehow missed the "&" symbol. Really?
* moving from today to tomorrow or yesterday should be INSTANT (those 2-3 seconds per page, just to draw a calendar page, really add up if you need to flip through a week or two) and this is a BIG problem in my world
* the clumsy method for rescheduling appointments - if you want to move your appt to next Wednesday, FIRST you flip to the day you want to change the appointment to so you can find out what the date is BEFORE you navigate back to the appointment you want to change and edit it, because once you enter the dialog to change the appt. there are nothing but numerical options
* the total lack of a search function is crazy - but I wouldn't complain if they would just come out and say, 'yes. well add search in the calendar eventually.' I don't even need it soon.
* the horrible view options - the lack of an agenda view, a weekly view with text, or a usable monthly view seems crazy
* the fact that Palm feels it's necessary to have animations which only emphasize the slow performance of the calendar - Why bother animating the accordion?
* the appointment alert times are far too limited - for example, apparently no one at Palm ever puts airplane flights in their calendar with appointment reminders because there is no 2 hour reminder option. Then again, maybe they have a flight marked in the calendar and 2 hours ahead of it, they enter a separate appointment with an alert that says "flight in two hours." Then again, it may not even matter what alert times are available because...
* appointment alarms occasionally just don't go off


These are the kinds of things that make the calendar app. incomplete, and unreliable alarms make the calendar almost pointless.

Would I like to have floating events or the ability to assign different reminder tones to different appointments or different font sizes/styles? Should the Today view automatically show the portion of today that includes the current time when you first go to today, so you don't have to scroll? Should the calendar offer more views in landscape mode? Sure. But I'd put those kinds of things in the "Tweaks That Would Be Cool If They'd Get Around To It" category and I'm not especially outraged that they're not included in the first release of a new phone.

With Palm's PIM history, I expected an above average, better than iPhone or Blackberry PIM/calendar. If the calendar was JUST average, I'd sit quietly on the sidelines, waiting for Palm to tweak features along the way until I was happy (as I'm doing with the texting app., the phone app., the sound preferences, etc.) Since the calendar is so far below average, I'll throw in most any time somebody posts a calendar complaint thread.

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
freakout @ 9/17/2009 9:26:32 PM # M Q
I know it doesn't help those who want stuff out-of-the-box (and I agree with their complaints for the most part)... but if you miss the Palm OS calendar so much - just freaking shell out for Classic, and you can keep on using it! (on faster hardware to boot!) Hotsync is coming if that's an issue.

Heck, if you wanted you could use Goosync to keep Classic synced to the cloud, and then sync webOS with that so you still get all that notification goodness.

As I type this on my Centro, I cut-and-pasted this comment from the text-box to Memos, so I could then flip back to Blazer, search Google for details on how GooSync works, then grab the copy-and-pasted text, come back to PIC and re-paste my words... All this application flipping and searching made painfully slow by creaky ol' FrankenGarnet, which can't do 3G GSM.

What I wouldn't give for a phone that multitasks properly! With a decent web browser! And sweet, sweet 3G!

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
CFreymarc @ 9/17/2009 11:17:21 PM # Q
This should be no surprise to anyone. They have a home brewed OS based of a Linux kernal with no outside royalties. That is a big cost advantage. Goodbye licenses to Kadak, PalmSource, Access and Microsoft all in one statement. This makes the bean counters happy.
RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
LiveFaith @ 9/17/2009 11:21:01 PM # Q
Nice info Gekko. I'm reading intently b/c the Calendar / Contacts are mission critical for me. If WebOS has made them slow and cumbersome in order to score in the eye-candy dept, then count me out. I love the way the interface flows, but the power and daily (sub-hourly!) interaction with PIM demands excellence. If this functions in reality like a cute featurephone with multitasking, then I'm tapping out of Palm altogether.
I have played with a working device a couple of times and Cal/Contacts seemed less robust & fast than my FrankenGarnet dinosaur. That is my #1 fear.
Does the iPhone have any serious Cal/Contact PIM apps in the AppStore? Are the DtBk people working on WebOS options?
Pat Horne
RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
Tim Carroll @ 9/18/2009 12:08:58 AM # Q
Are the DtBk people working on WebOS options?

CES Dewar from Pimlico would rather I didn't quote him so I haven't written a post on it, but the short answer is no - he's not a big Javascript fan, and besides that is waiting for webOS devices to sell in greater numbers before he dives in.

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
twrock @ 9/18/2009 12:44:23 AM # Q
Ok, Tim, if you have any more insider info from Dewar, I want to hear it, and I want to hear it now! Spill the beans, or I send my cousin Luigi over to your place to "have a discussion" with you.

Any chance he's working on an Android version?

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
Gekko @ 9/18/2009 4:25:54 AM # Q
>if you miss the Palm OS calendar so much - just freaking shell out for Classic, and you can keep on using it!

think about this. you're telling us to open up and run an emulator app every time we want to access the friggin Calendar app. consider for a moment all of the ugly speed, ease, native, stability, syncing, and compatibility issues which would arise from trying to do this. not to mention the whole absurdity of needing to do this. sorry but suggesting this kludge as a viable option is dumb and naive. i'm not sure the kludge would even properly given the database and OS structure.

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
Tim Carroll @ 9/18/2009 7:05:24 AM # Q
twrock:
Ok, Tim, if you have any more insider info from Dewar, I want to hear it, and I want to hear it now!

Heh. Nothing really beyond that, I'm afraid. Of course, if you're really interested, you could always write him yourself. :P

Gekko:

you're telling us to open up and run an emulator app every time we want to access the friggin Calendar app. consider for a moment all of the ugly speed, ease, native, stability, syncing, and compatibility issues which would arise from trying to do this. not to mention the whole absurdity of needing to do this.

Well, given that webOS is a multitasking powerhouse, you should only have to open it once, and then FrankenGarnet is yours forever, only a card or two away. Just leave it open at the calendar...

As for speed/ease/stability issues - I thought Classic actually ran faster than older PalmOS hardware? (Can't try it for myself, of course...)

I do agree, it's absurd that webOS didn't have PIM abilities that matched FrankenGarnet right out of the gate. But on the whole, if you look at what the whole webOS package offers, it's not like Palm didn't give us anything else in return. The browser kicks ass, the multitasking is without equal on any other platform, the messaging system rules, the notifications are amazing, Universal Search is something I've wanted on PalmOS ever since I started using it.

So yeah, the calendar is lacking for now. But there's so much else on offer, I can't get too broken up about it.

sorry but suggesting this kludge as a viable option is dumb and naive

Heh. No need to be sorry, this is the Internet. Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries. There, we're even. :P

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
DarthRepublican @ 9/18/2009 7:17:11 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

larnapp said:

my real problem with the calendar is the overall implementation of various features and functions and in many cases, the complete lack of industry-standard calendar features altogether.

For example,

* it takes far too many steps (taps & animated pop-ups) to make an appointment


Huh? When I make an appoint, I just tap once on the field next to the time and type away, just like in the Garnet calendar. Now if I want to change something like the time or location or add notes, then I have to click on the little "i" button just like I have to click on the "Details" button in the Garnet calendar. Now the Details dialog is arguably more intuitive and definitely more feature filled in the Garnet calendar than the webOS calendar.


* if an appointment title contains the "&" symbol, it cannot be changed on the Pre because changes won't sync back to the Google calendar - So you're thinking, 'well, that's just a bug, they'll fix it eventually.' Actually, the bug used to be if there was ANY symbol in an appointment title it wouldn't sync. They fixed that bug with the 1.1 update but somehow missed the "&" symbol. Really?

So you concede that Palm fixed a bug in their calendar but insist that they won't fix another one?

* moving from today to tomorrow or yesterday should be INSTANT (those 2-3 seconds per page, just to draw a calendar page, really add up if you need to flip through a week or two) and this is a BIG problem in my world

This is the problem of with insisting that your three days with the Pre is the be all and end all of the Pre experience. Moving from one day to the next is instant now. (OK, maybe there is an occasional half-second today but nothing like the delays that happened before the 1.1 update.) Now, the Calendar itself is still slow to start up and moving from day to week to month view still has a delay of about two seconds.

* the clumsy method for rescheduling appointments - if you want to move your appt to next Wednesday, FIRST you flip to the day you want to change the appointment to so you can find out what the date is BEFORE you navigate back to the appointment you want to change and edit it, because once you enter the dialog to change the appt. there are nothing but numerical options

Of course if you want to move your appointment from the 17th to the 23rd, you just tap on the date and scroll to that date but yeah, I definitely preferred the little pop-up calendar from Garnet.

* the total lack of a search function is crazy - but I wouldn't complain if they would just come out and say, 'yes. well add search in the calendar eventually.' I don't even need it soon.

I disagree, I want a search function in the Calendar now.

* the appointment alert times are far too limited - for example, apparently no one at Palm ever puts airplane flights in their calendar with appointment reminders because there is no 2 hour reminder option. Then again, maybe they have a flight marked in the calendar and 2 hours ahead of it, they enter a separate appointment with an alert that says "flight in two hours." Then again, it may not even matter what alert times are available because...

Yeah, that's a pet peeve of mine too.

Would I like to have floating events or the ability to assign different reminder tones to different appointments or different font sizes/styles? Should the Today view automatically show the portion of today that includes the current time when you first go to today, so you don't have to scroll? Should the calendar offer more views in landscape mode? Sure. But I'd put those kinds of things in the "Tweaks That Would Be Cool If They'd Get Around To It" category and I'm not especially outraged that they're not included in the first release of a new phone.

Many lot of the tweaks you write about above, floating events for example, were never available in the default Garnet calendar or were gradually added over time. They were added by third party applications like Datebk and Agendus. That's something to keep mind when discussing the webOS Calendar. It's very likely that we will see third party calendars in the near future. There is already a homebrew Agenda http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/agenda app available for the Pre and a Quick Event http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/quick-event app which can theoretically speed up the entry of events through the use of specific phrases. (In reality, it doesn't parse phrases like "Dinner Sunday 6-8 at Bob's house" well enough to make it a good method for fast entry of events. The bottom line is that development on the Pre is growing and will continue to grow until a better calendar solution arrives and I'm pleased enough with the Pre's calendar to wait for it to come.

Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: and this just in: Water is still wet!
DarthRepublican @ 9/18/2009 7:25:04 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:
>if you miss the Palm OS calendar so much - just freaking shell out for Classic, and you can keep on using it!

think about this. you're telling us to open up and run an emulator app every time we want to access the friggin Calendar app. consider for a moment all of the ugly speed, ease, native, stability, syncing, and compatibility issues which would arise from trying to do this. not to mention the whole absurdity of needing to do this. sorry but suggesting this kludge as a viable option is dumb and naive. i'm not sure the kludge would even properly given the database and OS structure.


Classic has gotten better over the various Palm and MotionApps updates for it but it's still not stable enough to run constantly which is what it would need to do to make using the Garnet Calendar as your main calendar realistic. I actually do have a lot of information in old-school Garnet apps like TopSecret and SplashMoney that run in Classic on my Pre but the Calendar is an application that I am running constantly and frequently keep open all day long. Classic isn't robust enough to keep open all day long and given Garnet's age and bugginess it may never be stable enough.

Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

Reply to this comment

Palms plan to SPAM.

OrionNE @ 9/17/2009 7:27:51 PM # Q
Palm Needs to come clean about the location and application tracking and allow users to opt out. Palm has a patent on file for use of the tech to SPAM you as you are walking around in your daily life. Just imagine driving down the road and every coffee shop or fast food place you pass that has signed up for Palm's advertising SPAM campaign will send you a message whether you want it or not. I will put WebOS phone at the bottom of my list until this is done.
RE: Palms plan to SPAM.
LiveFaith @ 9/17/2009 11:22:17 PM # Q
Oh yeah. I almost forgot!
Pat Horne
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