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Comments on: Postmortem Palm Foleo Hands-On

FoleoThey weren't too kind when it was still a living, breathing device – as a matter of fact they, along with the majority of the internet community, were downright scathing – but popular tech blog Engadget has managed to get their hands on Palm's doomed Mobile Companion, the hapless Foleo. A short review is pending, but in the meantime they’ve thrown up a gallery of pics, perusable here.

The oft-maligned Foleo was announced in May this year, to general derision from the Internet technocrati. The brainchild of Palm founder Jeff Hawkins, it was meant to spearhead a new Palm product line, but was instead ignominiously cancelled barely three months later. If you're interested in even more shots of the Foleo in action, checkout PIC's hands on preview from the announcement.

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Check out the competition on Engadget, too

SeldomVisitor @ 12/28/2007 1:24:43 PM # Q
They're posting a few articles that a guy from jkkmobile is doing to the EEE - pretty amazing: touchscreen, HSDPA 3D modem, one hopes GPS soon (should be an easy one).

Reply to this comment

I still want one

Doo @ 12/28/2007 1:56:57 PM # Q
I wonder what will happen to the ones sent out for review?

RE: I still want one
dkirker @ 12/28/2007 6:10:35 PM # Q
We were asked to return the ones that we (developers) got.

I don't know what consequences would arise from failing to return one.

Anyway, these reviews are nothing compared to actually touching/feeling one hands on.

RE: I still want one
mikecane @ 12/28/2007 6:54:20 PM # Q
>>>I don't know what consequences would arise from failing to return one.

They'd give you a job at Palm. Lucky you gave it back!!

RE: I still want one
dkirker @ 12/28/2007 8:04:24 PM # Q
>> They'd give you a job at Palm. Lucky you gave it back!!

Naw. You don't need to keep a Foleo to get a job at Palm. ;)

RE: I still want one
rcartwright @ 12/30/2007 2:30:48 PM # Q
The Foleos that were produced are used in house at Palm. Apparently Ed pulled the plug when the decision had to be made to produce for the market.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: I still want one
jaquin @ 12/31/2007 10:56:43 AM # Q
Aside from the price, ($599MSRP, $499 limited time offer) which I think was too high for the capabilities.
Was there anything really wrong about what the Foleo had to offer??
Wifi (even if 802.11B)
Nice Screen (10")
Great weight
Nice Keyboard
Ability to do Office Docs
Nice Battery life
Flash Memory with SD and CF slots
An UltraLight by any other name...
RE: I still want one
mikecane @ 12/31/2007 5:26:32 PM # Q
>>>Was there anything really wrong about what the Foleo had to offer??

...i am flopping on the ground gasping for air...

Reply to this comment

Will Engadget reply?

mikecane @ 12/28/2007 3:55:38 PM # Q
I posted there and am waiting to see if it will be allowed to appear.

===============

Two questions that I think are pertinent and will probably not be answered:

1) How did you get it?

2) Why is it missing all brand markings?

RE: Will Engadget reply?
freakout @ 12/28/2007 5:29:05 PM # Q
I emailed those questions to Engadget before I put up the news item, but they said he couldn't tell. Ryan theorizes it's from a disgruntled and recently laid-off Palm employee. Sounds about right...
RE: Will Engadget reply?
mikecane @ 12/28/2007 6:28:04 PM # Q
Missing the branding? Was it headed for a landfill?

RE: Will Engadget reply?
mikecane @ 12/28/2007 6:50:52 PM # Q
I hope it was stolen -- FROM THE OFFICE OF ED COLLIGAN!!!

RESIGN, Colligan!! Damn you, RESIGN!!!

RE: Will Engadget reply?
freakout @ 12/28/2007 7:58:39 PM # Q
Missing the branding? Was it headed for a landfill?

If it was the property of an ex-Palm employee, maybe they removed it out of spite. And spat on it. And then burned it.

(the 'ryan' referred to in my post above, btw, is ryan from this site, not ryan block who wrote the engadget article.)

Who is CEO of palm, anyway?
Poopie @ 12/29/2007 12:28:23 AM # Q
http://www.tnl.net/blog/2007/12/27/could-tech-support-undo-palm/

I asked employee C11329 to be transfered to her manager. She told me she was the most senior person at Palm. I asked her again politely to transfer me to her manager. She told me she had none. I asked to be transfered to the person that was reviewing her work, giving her assignments, etc.. I was told she had none. I told her I felt that was odd as, apart from the chairman and CEO, I didn’t know of anyone in a company not having a manager. She told me she was the CEO.


USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone
RE: Will Engadget reply?
SeldomVisitor @ 12/29/2007 6:57:44 AM # Q
You may want to read this thread on TreoCentral:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=158358&highlight=layoffs

*I'm* the CEO of Palm now!
mikecane @ 12/29/2007 12:46:33 PM # Q
And my first duty is: COLLIGAN, PACK YOUR EFFIN BAGS AND GET OUT NOW!!!

Right, having sorted that out, I thought the first reply to that support woes post was hilarious:

>>>Tristan, what right do you have to complain? You got to speak to the CEO of the company! That’s great service! :-D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Oh, and my second move as Newly Self-Appointed CEO of Palm is: A call to Asus to tell them it's All Right to mimic the full-size keyboard and better screen of the Foleo. And that I'm moving PalmOS onto the new Intel Mobile Hardware Platform and that Asus will be building the Foleo II. Or, as I am going to now rebrand it, the Foleo, Mike Cane Corrected Edition.

Save your pennies!

*I'm* the CEO of Palm now!
mikecane @ 12/29/2007 12:56:47 PM # Q
Oh and my third move as Self-Appointed And Better CEO of Palm:

Opera, take your goddammed cheapass browser and shove it!

Foleo, The Mike Cane Corrected Edition will be using FIREFOX.

Even Die!Nokia!Die! dumped your asswipe browser in their latest Anti-Net Tab.

RE: Will Engadget reply?
Gekko @ 12/29/2007 1:04:59 PM # Q

"As of now, I am in control here..."



RE: Will Engadget reply?
mikecane @ 12/29/2007 5:19:36 PM # Q
Leave it to Gekko to cite MacNamara... yeesh!

RE: Will Engadget reply?
mikecane @ 12/29/2007 5:22:29 PM # Q
RE: Will Engadget reply?
Gekko @ 12/30/2007 6:29:21 PM # Q
RE: Will Engadget reply?
mikecane @ 12/30/2007 8:48:48 PM # Q
Banging my head on my desktop. Yes, Haig Haig Haig!! Bloody hell!

No wonder I couldn't find anything with a "Reagan MacNamara" search!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/04/23/60II/main287292.shtml

RE: Will Engadget reply?
Gekko @ 12/31/2007 1:04:41 PM # Q

Defending himself against accusations of lying in 1983, he is quoted as saying, "That's not a lie, it's a terminological inexactitude."


RE: Will Engadget reply?
Gekko @ 12/31/2007 1:07:47 PM # Q

you got to love this guy...

In 1980, Spiro Agnew published a memoir in which he implied that, in 1973, Richard Nixon and Haig had planned to assassinate him if Agnew refused to resign the Vice-Presidency, and that Haig told him "to go quietly … or else."

Reply to this comment
RE: Gear Diary: Foleo
LiveFaith @ 12/28/2007 9:31:42 PM # Q
Perfect Mike. It's captionfest time. :-D

http://tinyurl.com/2vlnjt

Pat Horne

RE: Gear Diary: Foleo
Gekko @ 12/29/2007 1:08:29 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

Go bite yourself, Colligan

mikecane @ 12/29/2007 5:20:23 PM # Q
350,000 ASUS Eee PC’s Shipped Already
Saturday, December 22nd, 2007

According to DigiTimes, ASUS beat their initial expectations of shipping 300,000 Eee PC’s this quarter by 50,000. That means that there are already 350,000 Eee PC’s out there!

http://www.eeeuser.com/2007/12/22/350k-eee-pcs-shipped/

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
SeldomVisitor @ 12/29/2007 6:35:19 PM # Q
Yeah, and that guy over on jkkmobile keeps on modding them in REALLY cool ways!

RE: Go bite yourself, Treotards
mikecane @ 12/30/2007 1:33:27 PM # Q
Can your Treo do this?
mikecane @ 12/30/2007 3:10:41 PM # Q
RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
SeldomVisitor @ 12/30/2007 3:55:21 PM # Q
Wow.

Nuff said.

Wow.

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
SeldomVisitor @ 12/30/2007 4:34:00 PM # Q
That's 0.3 - they have 0.7 demoed, too - allowing tilting to cause movement:

-- http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ssjl_em5Rjk&feature=related

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
twrock @ 12/30/2007 11:20:07 PM # Q
Yes, that's a cool little game. Looks like it would occupy my attention for about ... three minutes.

Com'on. I don't even own a Treo, nor do I want any of the current offerings from Palm in their smartphone category. And I'm obviously not a Treo fanboy (based on how I've ripped on the current line in the past). But trying to mock Treo users because the iPhone has a nifty little game is pretty weak. How about coming back with the "attitude" when the iPhone finally does things like covering the basic PIM functions properly, having cut & paste, and really being open to third-party apps. Quite a few of us still consider getting something of value accomplished to be a compelling reason to choose one device over another.

Incidentally, I couldn't get that gearlive link to load anything, so I still don't know what new features are actually coming with the next firmware update (and I sure as heck am not interested enough to go searching for it myself). Maybe it actually will include some compelling reason to choose the iPhone....? I'm sure if it does, you'll be back to tell us all about it. (And even if it doesn't, you'll be back to tell us all about it.)


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
SeldomVisitor @ 12/31/2007 11:29:31 AM # Q
>> Can your Treo do this?...
>
> Yes, that's a cool little game. Looks like it would occupy my
> attention for about ... three minutes.

It's pretty amazing how you consistently can miss the forest for the trees.

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
twrock @ 12/31/2007 12:31:57 PM # Q
Wow, SV, you are profound!

Ok, I'll bite. Explain the forest and the trees from your perspective. But please, at least include how this little app fits into the grand scheme of things.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
mikecane @ 12/31/2007 5:21:55 PM # Q
He of the bratwurst fingers: Have you never heard of TEASING?

I mean, outside of doing it to your hair?

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
mikecane @ 12/31/2007 5:34:04 PM # Q
>>>Yes, that's a cool little game. Looks like it would occupy my attention for about ... three minutes.

As usual, your attitude is All Wrong... here is a clue...

http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/12/no-idea-what-this-is-all-about.html

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
twrock @ 12/31/2007 8:43:42 PM # Q
Thanks Mike. That was so..., um..., "helpful".
I'm still waiting for SV to explain it ALL to me.
In the mean time, why don't you find yet another "innovative" way of telling Colligan to resign. I don't think it's very clear what you think on that matter. With all of the "teasing" going on around here, no one can be sure what you really think.
(twrock heads off to put his freshly teased hair up in curlers and manicure his bratwurst sized finger while he awaits more profundity from the MC/SV duo....)


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
mikecane @ 12/31/2007 9:09:36 PM # Q
>>>(twrock heads off to put his freshly teased hair up in curlers and manicure his bratwurst sized finger while he awaits more profundity from the MC/SV duo....)

See what happens when you have to wear pinstripes?

Poor guy.

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
twrock @ 12/31/2007 10:27:09 PM # Q
"Have to"? Are you kidding? I love my pinstripes. Especially the pure gold ones on my suit.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
mikecane @ 1/1/2008 1:03:44 PM # Q
>>>Especially the pure gold ones on my suit.

Good God! When did Yankowski's IPO suit wind up at Goodwill?! (And how did Gekko miss it?)

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
twrock @ 1/1/2008 8:32:48 PM # Q
Of course not, silly. We went shopping together and bought matching outfits.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
mikecane @ 1/1/2008 8:37:09 PM # Q
Did you both get the matching purses too?

ROTF...

RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
twrock @ 1/1/2008 8:54:05 PM # Q
Mike, you are so old fashioned. It's a "man-bag"!
http://ganley.org/bags/bags.html


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Go bite yourself, Colligan
SeldomVisitor @ 1/2/2008 11:02:58 AM # Q
Yankowski is now CEO of (privately held) Ambient Devices.

-- http://www.ambientdevices.com/cat/team.html

Reply to this comment

Still the 'right' form factor

twrock @ 12/29/2007 10:19:41 PM # Q
http://tinyurl.com/2w7mo6
Maybe they could have shaved off a few more millimeters on the right side of the keyboard and made the backslash key square as well, but IMO they really did nail the form factor on the Foleo. Now that's a keyboard I could type on. And they even include a trackpoint instead of a touchpad. Very nice. I wish ASUS would make an "adult-sized" Eee.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: Still the 'right' form factor
mikecane @ 12/30/2007 12:48:33 PM # Q
Palm Foleo dimensions:

10.55″ x 6.67″ x .94″

Asus Eee dimensions:

8.9″ x 6.5″ x 0.82″

Mac Powerbook 100 dimensions:

11″ x 8.5″ x 1.8″

Mac Powerbook 2400 dimensions:

10.5″ x 8.5″ x 1.9″

Flybook dimensions:

9.3″ x 6.1″ x 1.2″

Fujitsu LifeBook P1610 Notebook dimensions:

9.13″ x 6.57″ x 1.36″/1.46″

Reply to this comment

Palm's Mullahs

mikecane @ 12/30/2007 1:19:47 PM # Q
>>>Andrew S. Grove, the co-founder of Intel, put it well in 2005 when he told an interviewer from Fortune, “When everybody knows that something is so, it means that nobody knows nothin’.” In other words, it becomes nearly impossible to look beyond what you know and think outside the box you’ve built around yourself.

We once had a wonderful term for that. It seems to have fallen into disuse. Time to brush it off: TUNNEL-VISION!

And the Foleo reaction in the press? This explains it:

>>>Elizabeth Newton, a psychologist, conducted an experiment on the curse of knowledge while working on her doctorate at Stanford in 1990. She gave one set of people, called “tappers,” a list of commonly known songs from which to choose. Their task was to rap their knuckles on a tabletop to the rhythm of the chosen tune as they thought about it in their heads. A second set of people, called “listeners,” were asked to name the songs.

>>>Before the experiment began, the tappers were asked how often they believed that the listeners would name the songs correctly. On average, tappers expected listeners to get it right about half the time. In the end, however, listeners guessed only 3 of 120 songs tapped out, or 2.5 percent.

>>>The tappers were astounded. The song was so clear in their minds; how could the listeners not “hear” it in their taps?

Hawkins, factor *that* into your neuro research! (Remember the demo of that someone posted on PIC. Christ, did that explain Foleo! The demo could only eat its own damned tail!)

NY Times article: http://tinyurl.com/3cxvmp

RE: Palm's Mullahs
mikecane @ 12/30/2007 1:22:42 PM # Q
>>>Palm could have never developed the iPhone. *Because it didn’t fit into what they were taught so long ago.* Zoomer owners wound up creating a sort of design religion that’s hardened into a crust of fundamentalism at Palm. It explains why Palm has been so hard of hearing towards its users: we are like infidels and they are like Muslim clerics! Only they know the Truth.

The Palm Foleo Disaster: Part Two
http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/09/12/the-palm-foleo-disaster-part-two/

RE: Palm's Mullahs
mikecane @ 12/30/2007 1:29:24 PM # Q
Final para from that NYT article:

>>>“Look for people with renaissance-thinker tendencies, who’ve done work in a related area but not in your specific field,” she says. “Make it possible for someone who doesn’t report directly to that area to come in and say the emperor has no clothes.”

Hey, Colligan, you brain-dead moron. That group includes virtually ALL PIC commenters!

And get this, you suitard, you've *already* established that PDAs are *not* worth more than $99 with that Centro price point. So don't think you're gonna pull a March Surprise and intro any sort of *new* PDA with a price *higher* than $99.

Got that?

RE: Palm's Mullahs
Poopie @ 12/31/2007 2:47:30 PM # Q
“When everybody knows that something is so, it means that nobody knows nothin’.” In other words, it becomes nearly impossible to look beyond what you know and think outside the box you’ve built around yourself.

It's the Mutual Admiration Society effect. Take any group with a goal/problem, limit them to interacting with each other, and often you'll see this pop up. People working on the same task convince themselves that what they have and what they've done is good and the direction they're headed is the right one ... because thinking otherwise would mean something bad - having wasted time, admitting defeat, loss of revenue, delay, poor performance review, getting fired, or failure.

You know you've encountered a mutual admiration society culture in a development group when they discard unsolicited feedback with comments like, "if you would have read the manual...", "you're not the target audience", "you haven't taken the class on how to use it", "our customers don't want that", "that's not on our roadmap", "we've already finished our usability testing", etc.

In most cases, I'd argue that if someone off the street can't figure out how to use your product, or complains about UI, design, features, functionality, performance, etc. they probably have a valid point and your product probably sucks.

Oh, and here's how Palm is spending their money nowadays... funding people to figure out text message delivery delays for new years.
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11895/12919/palm-new-years-text-delay.phtml


USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone

RE: Palm's Mullahs
mikecane @ 12/31/2007 5:25:04 PM # Q
>>>You know you've encountered a mutual admiration society culture in a development group when they discard unsolicited feedback with comments like, "if you would have read the manual...", "you're not the target audience", "you haven't taken the class on how to use it", "our customers don't want that", "that's not on our roadmap", "we've already finished our usability testing", etc.

If you had RTFM, you would have realized not to respond to my posts as my customers don't want that and you're not the target audience anyway. Maybe you should sign up for my class first so you can navigate my roadmap that I've just finished testing...

Reply to this comment

Foleo, Take, uh, Two? One Point Five?

mikecane @ 1/2/2008 12:31:21 PM # Q
REDFLY Mobile Companion For Smartphones

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/redfly_mobile_companion_for_smartphones.html

Redfly?! Isn't that a venereal disease?

RE: Foleo, Take, uh, Two? One Point Five?
mikecane @ 1/2/2008 12:34:47 PM # Q
No matter how many times I read that report, I Don't Get It.

WTF does it do? Mirror the WM smurfphone display so you can haz a bigger screen and keyboard?! So, basically, you're stuck using WM still? If so, Ew.

RE: Foleo, Take, uh, Two? One Point Five?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/2/2008 1:39:53 PM # Q
A long time ago in a different lifetime:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=33796


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