Comments on: Palm Treo 700p on May 15th?
This would again confirm earlier Palm OS Treo 700p rumors posted on PalmInfocenter over the past few months. To recap, pictures of the Sprint branded 700p were first leaked in February, a rumored release date came out in mid-March as well as a targeted Sprint launch timeframe.
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RE: The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
I think Lowrider will be GSM. It will give Palm a phone to sell worldwide (instead of just US) and into markets where 3G is still not rolled out.
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
RE: The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
You and others here seem to be under some sort of strange impression that: Windows Mobile = 'more advanced' = able to handle faster networks. What is your logic here?
The logic as I understand it has nothing to do with support for networking protocols. You're right that that is fairly trivial. It has to do with the UMTS standard requiring simultaneous voice and data operation. Garnet has a preemptive multitasking kernel, so you can spawn the processes you need to handle voice and data networking at the same time. So far so good. The problem comes when you need to control those processes from the single UI thread that Garnet offers. You're downloading a file and talking to someone on the phone: how do you hang up the call and continue the download when the application framework can't expose these multiple threads? Apps in Palm OS run as subroutines of a single UI Application Shell, which makes it pretty near impossible to give two applications control over the networking streams they are using at the same time. Garnet can't run two applications at the same time.
Yes, Garnet could be hacked to accomplish this. But it would be a massive undertaking, probably with lots of new APIs that existing apps would need to exercise to play nicely with the system. Given that Palm can license a modern multitasking commercial Linux system, add some framework components and applications to it and an emulator like PalmSource has done, you have to wonder if that doesn't start to seem like the better way to go.
All this is my understanding based on my experience as an application developer for Palm OS, Windows Mobile, and other operating systems. I'm not an OS architecture expert, so my suppositions about the level of work that this Garnet hack would require should be taken with some skepticism. But I feel pretty safe in saying that the work to get Garnet complying with UMTS would be substantial, not just for Palm but for 3rd party developers.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
He started it!
;-)
Seriously, the long-standing scuttlebut around here has always been that Palm either "lifted" the EVDO stack off of the carcass of Cobalt and/or had to hack their own solution into the Treo 650.
The main reason that I've always heard (and this has been voiched for by folks far more technically minded than myself such as Beersie) is that the single-tasking, single-threaded limitations of FrankenGarnet (background MP3 playback aside) are ill-suited for the requirements of UMTS. UMTS has stricter requirements for running background processes etc. than rev. 1 of EVDO or EDGE--both supposedly better "bolt on" solutions as far as POS 5.x integration is concerned.
Besides, there are fewer UMTS-supporting handsets out there than there are EDGE or EVDO hardware...and the initial chipsets were supposedly larger than equivalent EVDO ones at the time so that might make it ill-suited for shoehorning into existing Treo formfactor molds.
Anyone in the know, please feel free to correct me. I am just passing along things as I've heard 'em and been told.
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RE: The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
With UMTS it should be the same; no need to modify the Palm OS UI application framework to "give two applications control over the networking streams they are using at the same time." - the voice is implemented via a seperate hardware sub-system.
>>You're downloading a file and talking to someone on the phone: how do you hang up the call and continue the download when the application framework can't expose these multiple threads?
So given my above understanding - as i said, maybe i don't get something here - you'd press the call-end button. currently - palm OS Treos can handle ending a voice call while displaying another app right? Same difference - except that app can be a network app.
Again - my understanding assumes a seperate sub-system that handle voice. Am I wrong? I don't actually own treo and have only briefly used one so perhaps i am missing something that is obvious to those in the know and am making incorrect assumptions about the design and functionality.
Any new GSM phones coming soon?
-------------------------------------------------------
Proud owner of a Sony TJ-37!
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
Oh wait did you mean POS GSM Treos?
Sorry, I think that particular combination has been EOL'd.
The last of the 650s may be your best bet. OF course it's entirely possible that a GSM variant of the Lowrider may be released but by all indications that's going to be an ugly low-end phone...probably a 160*160 screen lifted from the Z22 and 32mb NVFS memory...no advantages whatsoever other than a newer OS over the Treo 650. No EDGE, no UMTS, NO EVDO.
I think the difficulty with a new POS GSM Treo aries in the utter inability to shoehorn a UMTS stack into FrankenGarnet. That said, Palm should've released a Treo 670 exclusive model for GSM networks last year with nothing more than 64mb RAM and a slightly newer OS/apps. It'd make made for a nice stopgap model in lieu of an actual GSM 700p.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
Who would want it, aside from Cingular in the USA? T-Mobile is pretty much a no-show when it comes to POS-they completely passed on the 650. European customers are very fussy as far as the styling & size of their phones are concerned and that's who the Hollywood is primarily intended for. There's just one major UK carrier (Orange) currently offers the 650, right? So that leaves the rest of the world (secondary markets at best-Oceania, continental Europe, Central & South America etc) excluding Asia where anything with an antenna that big would be ridiculed.
Also, can Palm get away with another EDGE-only POS device? Isn't everyone clamoring for UMTS handsets by this point?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
Bill
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
>Bill
I totaly agree.
I also think Europe is much (more?) interested in "gadgets" and a 3G Treo would sell very well. The Treo keyboard is what almost all smartphones sold in Europe lack, and a data-centric phone (email, web, e-banking, IM etc.) greatly benefits from such a keyboard. I was a big fan of Grafitti and thought keyboards are a stupid thing, that was until I bought my Treo.
Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
When do you think the 700p in GSM would come out? Maybe August? It's taking all of my will power to not get a 650!
-Vik
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
I guess I will get a 700p with EVDO first so I can be happy in US. I will then get the Treo GSM version in Auguest, unlock it, so I can use it in other countries. If the only difference between Treo 650 GSM and the new Treo GSM is the EDGE, then I will buy a unlocked treo 650 GSM since it will be even cheaper then.
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Any new GSM phones coming soon?
(Shrug) Usually, the GSM version of a Treo shows up around 4-6 months after the CDMA version. No idea whether that will hold up on these, or what, but that's the previous pattern.
I want GSM too but GSM won't do EVDO. I heard EDGE is slow and has lots of porblems. So either go with the speed or the globalization.
EDGE speed is anywhere from 60 to 180 Kbits per second depending on conditions. Averages usually fall into the 100-150 range. It's not the 400 Kbits of EVDO, but it's not that bad.
LD
Treo 700p Announced May 15th as expected
LifeDrive2 (or whatever its name will be) hard-launched at at the same time
"Hollywood" and "Lowrider" both to be released in october.
RE: LD
the LifeDrive apperently already is beeing crapped. Amazon Germany currently sels thge box for just 229€...
Amazon already handled the "crapping" of the WristPDA, so it is very possible that they are clearing stock for the new LD...
Best regards
Tam Hanna
Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com
Still upset
I just wish that Verizon would release a Palm OS version of the 700 as well. As an avid Palm-powered aficionado, I am just irritated about the fact that Verizon chose Windows Mobile over Palm OS, a move that caused me to go away from Verizon Wireless.
Unless Verizon releases a version of the Palm Treo 700 with Palm OS Garnet, I won't be going back to Verizon sooner or later.
Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: Still upset
Today I called Sprint, because my contract is up tomorrow. They emailed me an offer to re-up, and when I mentioned I wanted to wait till the new treo came out, she knew exactly what I was talking about. She mentioned "Oh you mean the Treo 700P. It will be out the last couple days of May, or first week of June. She knew all this without any coaching, so either she reads the palm sites, or she already has the info. She did tell me, I get the same $150 off the new treo, with a 2 year contract. I joked with her about them coming out priced at $700, she laughed, and said it will be more than the 650 is now, but not THAT expensive.
Can't wait, need to upgrade the 600 to the 700p!
RE: Still upset
I'm with you. I guess it's possible that VZW paid for some of Palm's development costs on the 700w in return for an exclusivity period. Who knows?
RE: Still upset
Unless I have a sense that Verizon may release the 700p within 2-4 months after Sprint, I'm planning to switch. And I think it's quite unlikely they will be doing that.
RE: Still upset
I'm ready to switch to wmob out of sheer boredom, but gosh, then there's the resolution hit from 320x320 to 240x240.
If I were CEO of Palm, first day I would call a meeting and sketch out my orders:
-borrow the thumpad design from the latest blackberry
-have music fidelity rival an ipod
-put extra functionality (java, flash, plugins, etc) into web browser so it can stream anything, login anywhere, and load any page.
-have games that rival playstation portable, not just sudoku or bejeweled
---
David
RE: Still upset
Remember the old "Verizonized" Treos when Verizon was so late to the Treo party, the Alltel -> Verizon V3c and the limited run Sony-Ericsson CDMA handset? It CAN be done!
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Encryption on the 700p, please.
TREO 700W
RE: TREO 700W
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The rest of Palm's '06 roadmap is slowly coming into focus
700p for Sprint in late May/early June.
700w for Sprint in August/Sept. No GSM version of the 700w.
Hollywood WinMob GSM only for Cingular, Orange etc. in August/Sept
Lowrider Palm OS CDMA only Sprint & Verizon in Sept/Oct
There are your four new Treos for '06 that Ed mentioned--700p, 700w, Hollywood, Lowrider. Two for POS, two for WinMob.
No new PDAs this year other than a mildy refreshed T|E3 sometime late this spring or early summer. I would not count on another LifeDrive at this point. At best we'll see a comprehensive ROM update for the TX addressing some of the lingering VersaMail/Blazer bugs & addresses some of the insufficient DBCache issues in certain apps like TomTom Navigator.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX