Comments on: Treo 680 Image Turns Up

To many people, a phone is a fashion. Why can't Palm provide phones of different styles? While Palm do offer different smartphones with different OS and wireless networks, customers also want choices on their phones' outlook!

Look at how Apple is so successful with their ipods and how Nokia is so successful on their phones.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

At conferences, etc, it's quicker to pull a card out of a pocket than to have two people digging out their handhelds. Then again, I'm in the "social sciences" and, as a group, we tend to lag behind the rest of the professional world on technology implementation.

--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???

That said, Palm really do need to diversify the Treo line. Ideally, it would come in three flavours:

1) Classic Treo candy-bar style with QWERTY
2) Classic Palm tablet-style PDA with a 320x480 screen but keeping the same overall size as the classic Treo, 'cause a PDA is a bit too big to use as a phone without looking like a complete dork - the Treo's pushing it as it is. ;)
3) Most importantly, a small Treo flip-phone with the standard cellphone keypad. Bung an mp3 player in it, keep the messaging app, make it look pretty. Sell millions.

I don't believe Palm are stupid - naive, maybe - so I think they know all this already. I imagine next year's Treos are going to be a very different-looking bunch; almost certainly they won't be running the "classic" PalmOS.

Or maybe everyone here is right, Palm is doomed, and we won't see anymore new Treos at ALL. How's that for depressing...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

Not necessarily, Beersie.

http://tinyurl.com/f75fd

If you plan to be a frequent Wi-Fi user instead of using the carrier network then they are quite happy to see you go. They make their money off their pricey data plans, not off selling you the handset. In fact they take a loss on the phones in hopes of getting you into one of those plans.

freakout, Cingular (largest US carrier) still sells one Wi-Fi enabled phone, a Cingular branded HTC Wizard, but since releasing that they have brought out no others to market that I'm aware of. I think we have seen the same pattern with the others. Now that Cingular is releasing the Nokia E61 with the Wi-Fi cut out and calling it the E62 I believe the story has been told: they consider Wi-Fi to be more of a loss than a leader.

I think the US carriers may be spooked about the free/cheap municipal Wi-Fi buildouts starting to occur in some major US cities (as well as some small ones: http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=111). The Verizon CEO has delivered some surprisingly shrill and frightened-sounding statements against municipal Wi-Fi that let on what a concern this trend is for his company.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Don't forget the mostly ignored Samsung i730 on Verizon. Good CDMA performance and a decent 240*320 screen. Integrated wi-fi and BT, even though Verizon has done their usual bit of crippling the BT profiles. A shame the slider has mnay of the same issues that plagued the Palm T|T series. I prefer the Treo keyboard over the Samsung's.

But yes, to answer your question, you have at least one other smartphone offered by the US telcos with integrated wi-fi.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

http://www.sprint.com/business/products/phones/ppc6700_allPcsPhones.jsp

With available cheap EVDO plans (500 anytime minutes + unlimited EVDO for as low as $30/month!) + the ability to run Skype + impending government-sponsored Wi-Fi networks, it's obvious that having a lot of phones like this would quickly bankrupt Sprint. Either way, I can't see the carriers surviving the VoIP "paradigm shift". Expect to see several carriers merge in the next year or two (it's already started), but their heyday is over. People are sick of being fleeced.

The timing is just about perfect for Google to introduce its free portable VoIP service...

The carriers are fcuked and I don't think anyone will shed a tear for them. Bwahahahaha!

TVoR

They are TERRIFIED of anyone figuring out that Verizon OR Sprint have any wi-fi integrated smartphones currently in their lineups.

I would also assume that's why everyone is so silent to the fact that the 700w/wx have drivers for Palm's wi-fi SDIO card built in. On the 700wx, with its extra RAM, giving up SD storage is ALMOST possible in order to keep an SDIO wi-fi card installed. ALMOST. I'd much rather have one of the newer low-profile, minimally protruding wi-fi SDIO cards in my smartphone that the enormous brick of a card Palm currently offers under their branding.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Although. A question I don't think I've seen asked*: if wifi does become ubiquitous and everyone has a device that uses it, won't we start to see free wifi networks become overloaded and next to useless? After all, if everyone is using them then the costs for the operators of these free networks will start to add up. They might be able to beat that with ad-supported access or something, or charging fees for service with no ads, but then you're pretty much back where you started: if you want unfettered on-the-go access, you have to pay.

*possibly because it's a stupid one

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

You're missing out on the integration between PIM and Phone which 2 devices can't replicate. You're also missing out on fast, seamless, integrated Internet features.

Sprint is pretty good in NYC. But their big attraction is the cheap unlimited data plans.

http://www.sprint.com/

One good thing to come from this release is it appears the external antennas are finally going away in Treo designs. As the Treo with the stub was already at the maximum radiation release allowed by US law, they must have finally cracked the secret to keeping it under the wire.

They have cool candybar hardware!

Best regards
Tam Hanna

Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com

They have cool candybar hardware!"

Uh..Tam, aside from the fact that GSPDA phones are garbage they also aren't available State-side. Any person intent on selecting a PalmOS-powered Smartphone would have to be desperate to choose GSPDA, and will pay a exorbitant premium in doing so. Provided you can even find one for purchase. Have you looked at the specs on the M68 for example? 160x220 display. I rest my case.

QOOL labs makes some "interesting" PalmOS phones, or did at one time. But there again, in so choosing you are burdened with a low-res display. And in the case of both GSPDA and QOOL, the GUI has been so heavily customized with proprietary extensions it scarcely resembles the typical Palm experience. Neither company made serious inroads into the market, even in Asia. Buying either phone offers its own set of dangers in the form of lack of support and obsolescence.

My advice, is to go with the Treo 680 if you want a full PDA experience on a phone. One thing I will say about the Palm-based Treo, inferior though it is, it does at least provide access (no pun intended) to a library of all your favorite Palm apps. There is something to be said for that.

Which device you choose; a Samsung dumb-phone or Treo, has a much to do with your usage habits and requirements as the carrier you use. For example, if all you really intend to use the phone for is voice calls, then a dumb phone is a perfectly acceptable choice. When combined with a Bluetooth radio you can connect your Nokia 770 to the web by pairing the two devices.

On the other hand, if you really want a seamless sync experience in managing your contacts, calendar, notes, tasks, etc., the Palm is definitely the way to go. Speaking as someone who made the transition from common plebe phone to a Smartphone; once you go Smartphone it is difficult to go back. Once you've used a Treo or Windows Mobile phone you immediately have an epiphany. A realization that this is the way mobile computing should be. Simple, integrated, converged. What makes a smartphone even more compelling is the QWERTY keyboard. If you ever attempt texting from a typical phone keypad, you're in for quite a "treat" once you experience T9 input first hand. How anyone finds text input on cell phones to be tolerable I will never understand. Nothing compares to QWERTY. That's a tough combination to beat.

Good luck with your choice.

P.S. one last piece of advice: if you decide on a dumb phone, look at Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, and Samsung (which you already have). Those are the ONLY handsets that I endorse based on hardware design and software ease of use. Whatever you do stay away from Motorola. They have the absolute worst software platform in the industry. I have the SLVR L7, and I rarely use the damned thing in no small part to the wretched interface and clunky user experience. Symbian S60 is the simplest interface. Followed by Sony-Ericsson, followed closely by Samsung.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

That is the case with the Nokia E61, which right now stands as the pinnacle of mobile web browsing on cellular devices. Built upon Apple's Safari rendering engine (WebKit), it even features mouse pointer navigation; something I had not seen or experienced on a mobile device until now. With just the movement of my thumb I can point and click on any link, or navigate to any web page even while driving (kids, don't try this at home..or in the car). So the next time you are behind some guy swerving all over the road, forcing pedestrians into the bushes..that will be me.

Even Pocket IE isn't too bad, when used in landscape. Screen orientation plays a large role in the value of web browsing a a small screen. Square Palm screens I find to be miserable. On the Nokia E61, which has a widescreen (landscape) display, it is fantastic. Pocket PC phones like the HTC TyTn, combined with Opera for Windows Mobile can be pretty damn sweet, especially on a WiFi connection or 3G data network.

However, a PalmOS-based Treo represents the bottom of the barrel in terms of web browsing. Blazer is a toy, the Playschool among mobile browsers. When you combine that with a brain dead OS like Garnet, the results are extreme disappointment.

Note to PalmOS users: Don't look at the Nokia E61..it will spoil you!

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushfoolme.htm

It's obvious from the advice certain posters are giving you that you are hated here at Palminfocenter.

look at the GSPDA folks!!!

They have cool candybar hardware!

GSPDA has some egregious crap for sale. And good luck finding support for this hardware that isn't even officially sold in the USA.

My advice, is to go with the Treo 680 if you want a full PDA experience on a phone. One thing I will say about the Palm-based Treo, inferior though it is, it does at least provide access (no pun intended) to a library of all your favorite Palm apps. There is something to be said for that.

Go with an unproven Treo that hasn't even been released yet? W T F??? After seeing all the quality control and NVFS disasters we've been treated to by Palm/Handspring with the Treo 600/650/700p? Amazing.

Yes it's nice to have an all-in-one device, but only if it actually does "all" fairly well. Even then, there are numerous compromises in choosing a smartphone over a dumbphone/PDA combo (size, weight, battery life, loss of data redundancy, loss of easy/cheap upgradability (admittedly probably not an issue for someone like Cane who is still using a 7 year old monochrome PDA), screen size/readability (likely a HUGE issue for someone like Cane with 70 year old eyes), voice quality, reception, integration with Bluetooth headsets/handsfree kits (probably not an issue with someone like Cane who doesn't own a vehicle and has never even learned how to drive), etc.)

The only - and I mean ONLY - advantage I see in buying one of the current crop of Palm branded smartphones is compatibility with the PalmOS app library, assuming a user already has a lot of old, familiar PalmOS apps accumulated over the years. Unfortunately, the fly in the ointment for that argument is the presence of the dreaded NVFS/CrapRAM™ instead of RealRAM™. CrapRAM™ savagely butchers compatibility with old programs and causes severe instability of PalmOS devices that use it. Stability, speed and ease of use USED to be the three defining features of PalmOS. That is why we paid premium prices for underspecced hardware and turned a blind eye over the years to software that other platforms got before PalmOS like multimedia, Skype, Slingbox, etc. If PalmOS devices featuring NVFS are now slow and unstable, what exactly is the point of using PalmOS? I've seen more crashes in a month of using my (NVFS-crippled) Treo 700p than I have in 10 YEARS of using literally dozens of non-NVFS PalmOS devices. Go figure. The only use I have for the Treo 700p is as a broadband EVDO modem, backup phone and - hopefully - eventually a device I can use for long distance calls around the world using a REAL Skype client.

Which device you choose; a Samsung dumb-phone or Treo, has a much to do with your usage habits and requirements as the carrier you use. For example, if all you really intend to use the phone for is voice calls, then a dumb phone is a perfectly acceptable choice. When combined with a Bluetooth radio you can connect your Nokia 770 to the web by pairing the two devices.

Yes.

On the other hand, if you really want a seamless sync experience in managing your contacts, calendar, notes, tasks, etc., the Palm is definitely the way to go.

Wrong. An unstable Treo is not worth the headaches of having an all-in-one device. And last time I checked, traditional PalmOS PDAs were pretty good at presenting "a seamless sync experience in managing your contacts, calendar, notes, tasks, etc". I don't understand how people blindly ignore all the compromises that have to be made in using a smartphone. Just because smartphones are fashionabe everyone seems to be jumping on the smartphone bandwagon and forgetting how useful the traditional PDA form factor is.

Speaking as someone who made the transition from common plebe phone to a Smartphone; once you go Smartphone it is difficult to go back.

Yes, but (for me) unless a smartphone is as small as a (tiny) dumbphone, it quickly becomes a pain in the a$$ (literally) lugging it around all the time. And then there's the (horrid) voice quality issues with Treos...

Once you've used a Treo or Windows Mobile phone you immediately have an epiphany. A realization that this is the way mobile computing should be. Simple, integrated, converged.

Yes, Kent. But once you've used a Samsung i500 you'll have ANOTHER epiphany. A realization that THIS is the way mobile computing should be. Simple, integrated, converged, tiny size, light, superb build quality and voice quality that sounds like a land line. There's a good reason why so many people that worked for Palm/PalmSource and as Palm developers still use this 4 year old phone every day...

What makes a smartphone even more compelling is the QWERTY keyboard. If you ever attempt texting from a typical phone keypad, you're in for quite a "treat" once you experience T9 input first hand. How anyone finds text input on cell phones to be tolerable I will never understand. Nothing compares to QWERTY. That's a tough combination to beat.

Agreed. But the original Treo 600 keyboard was easier to use than later "improved" versions.

Good luck with your choice.

You know Cane. He'll never actually BUY anything. Instead he'll keep yapping and agonizing on a dozen PDA sites for YEARS over trivial details while continuing to use his 7 year old monochrome Sony CLIE S320 and the phone booth a block from his dingy New York tenament apartment.

P.S. one last piece of advice: if you decide on a dumb phone, look at Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, and Samsung (which you already have). Those are the ONLY handsets that I endorse based on hardware design and software ease of use.

Exactly. Sony Ericsson only did one CDMA (Sprint) phone - the legendary T608 - but unless someone only wanted a simple phone with good voice quality, I'd avoid trying to track one of them down. The Samsung A920 is probably the best EVDO-capable phone Sprint has right now. If someone is willing to go with GSM the phone selection improves (several slick Sony Ericssons and a few decent Nokias). GSM also allows phone whores to easily change between phones by swapping out SIM cards, but reception, voice quality and data plans are generally vastly inferior to Sprint (CDMA).

Whatever you do stay away from Motorola. They have the absolute worst software platform in the industry. I have the SLVR L7, and I rarely use the damned thing in no small part to the wretched interface and clunky user experience. Symbian S60 is the simplest interface. Followed by Sony-Ericsson, followed closely by Samsung.

Agreed.

MikeCon - get a 650 or 700p from Sprint for cheap.

Stay FAR away from those pieces of crap, Caney.

Treo 650 - obsolete, 23 MB pathetic CrapRAM™, buggy email, crappy camera, big, heavy, poorly made, crappy voice quality.

Treo 700p - CrapRAM™, unstable, S L O W, big, heavy, crappy camera, etc.

You're missing out on the integration between PIM and Phone which 2 devices can't replicate.

Integration isn't worth putting up with substandard equipment to achieve.

You're also missing out on fast, seamless, integrated Internet features.

It only takes a few extra seconds to connect a traditional PDA to a tiny Bluetooth dumbphone. But those "Internet features" are a He11 of a lot more enjoyable/readable on a traditional 320 x 480 tablet PDA than a tiny 320 x 320 Small Square Screened Treo.

Sprint is pretty good in NYC. But their big attraction is the cheap unlimited data plans.

The ONLY reason to put up with the imbeciles at Sprint (possibly the most pathetic customer service reps on the planet) is the excellent voice quality and their cheap data plans. And if you get a SERO plan (e.g. $30 for unlimited EVDO data, 500 anytime minutes, free nights + weekends, free roaming onto Verizon etc., free long distance, free picture mail, etc) Sprint is IMPOSSIBLE to beat right now.

I'll use a *real* device for web still, like the Nokia 770 (which has gotten better).

Yes someone your age would have a lot of difficulty viewing the tiny Treo screen for long periods of time.

The initial appeal of a cheap Treo is combining the CLIE and Tracfone. One less device to carry. I'm convinced the web on phones, right now, is as useful (read: useLESS) as WAP was. This isn't Japan with DoCoMo...

Yes, Internet on a Treo is an exercise in frustration. But Nokia's E61 does show that Internet on a smartphone is doable - provided you have the right software and hardware.

The Internet on the Treo is actually very usable.

Bull. Internet on a Treo is for emergency use only. The tragic formatting "issues" Blazer has makes most web pages almost unreadable. Not to mention all the content that won't display on a Treo. If you want REAL browsing on a small device, for now the BEST solution is getting a UMPC like the VAIO UX50 and a tiny Broadband EVDO + Bluetooth-capable phone like the Samsung A920.

There's no reason to buy/manage/charge/carry/sync/fight/fumble with 2+ devices when ONE Smartphone can do it all.

Unfortunately "ONE Smartphone [CANNOT] do it all". Choose a smartphone over a good separate PDA + dumbphone combo and you give up PDA screen size/readability, battery life, voice quality, data redundancy, etc., etc.

Cane, dumba$$ Geeko is trying to fcuk you up, as usual. It's unfortunate that Ryan can't automagically killfile his screed.

TVoR

GSM = hardware freedom.
CDMA = hardware confinement

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

http://home.triad.rr.com/rlwhitt/palm/

http://treocentral.com/content/Stories/911-1.htm

500min $30 (includes unlimited vision data, unlimited nights and weekends, unlimited mobile to mobile, pic and video mail, long distance, voicemail, caller id, call waiting)

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=106778

1) Zodiac 2 from Olympic Systems: 128 MB RealRAM™, dual SD slots = $125

2) Sprint SERO plan: 500 anytime minutes, unlimited EVDO broadband access, free nights + weekends calling, free roaming, free long distance, free calling to other Sprint users, etc. etc.

http://www.sprint.com/sero
enter john.smith@sprint.com and your zip code to get access to the SERO site...

3) Samsung A920 phone = $137 with SERO plan

4) Kingston 2 GB SD card from Amazon.com = $40

5) SD Wi-Fi card from Amazon.com (if Caney gets an extra paper route) = $82

______________________________________________________________________________

FROM THE SERO SITE:

Sprint Employee Referral Offer 500 See More Plans >>
Sprint Vision or Power Vision Included Free
Transform your wireless experience from functional to fantastic with features and content that are very visual, extra entertaining, and perfectly personalized. Customers who choose a Power Vision(sm) or Sprint PCS Vision(sm) phone will also receive:

- Unlimited Web access
- Unlimited email and instant messaging - AOL, MSN and Yahoo
- Unlimited Sprint PCS Picture Mail(sm) with Video Mail

Power Vision(sm) Phones available: Samsung A940, Samsung A900, Sanyo MM-9000, Sanyo MM-7500

Sprint PCS Vision(sm) Phones available: LG VI-125, LG PM-225, Samsung VI-A820, Sanyo VI-2300, LG PM-325, Samsung PM-A840, Sanyo MM-8300, Samsung MM-A880, PalmOne Treo 650

Unlimited Night & Weekend Minutes
Night & Weekend Minutes are used from 9 p.m. to 7 a.m., Monday through Friday and all day on Saturday and Sunday. If your Sprint PCS Service Plan does not include Night & Weekend Minutes, then minutes used during this time would count towards your Anytime Minutes. Night & Weekend Minutes are also shared between all phones on a Sprint PCS Add-a-Phone account.
Unlimited Mobile To Mobile Calling
Make and receive calls directly to and from Sprint PCS and most Nextel subscribers while on the Nextel national Network without using your service plan minutes. Excludes Nextel subscribes in certain markets.
Nationwide Long Distance
Long distance calls made on the Sprint Nationwide PCS Network are included in your minutes for no additional charge. International calling is not included.
Crystal-Clear Calls
Because Sprint has the largest all-digital, all-PCS nationwide network, you will enjoy crystal-clear calls while on the Sprint Nationwide PCS Network.
Voice Mail
Voicemail answers your calls and takes messages when you're not available. Voicemail allows you to retrieve your messages quickly and easily. Just press one button, check your voicemail, then press a button to return a call.
Caller ID
Caller ID shows you the numbers for most incoming calls, so you know who's calling before you answer. If you don't want to answer your Sprint PCS Phone, you can let the incoming call roll to your voicemail box. Caller ID works whenever your phone is on. It even works when Call Waiting alerts you of an incoming call. What's more, Caller ID safeguards your wireless calling privacy with Caller ID Block. When you initiate a call, you can decide whether your phone number is shown to the person you're calling. For maximum flexibility, you can activate Caller ID Block on a call-by-call basis or choose permanent call blocking.
Call Waiting
Call Waiting helps ensure that all your important calls get through when you're talking on another call. When you hear the distinct Call Waiting tone, glance at the Caller ID on your Sprint PCS Phone's digital display to see who's calling. Then you can decide whether you want to switch to the new call.
Numeric Paging
You can receive numeric pages on your Sprint PCS Phone instead of voicemail messages. When Numeric Paging is turned on, your voicemail will prompt callers to either leave a voice message or send a numeric page.
Three-Way Calling
Three-Way Calling lets you talk to two people at the same time. You can use Three-Way Calling even if you didn't start the phone call. (Airtime and long-distance charges apply for both of the calls in your Three-Way Calling party.)
Call Forwarding ($0.20/min)
With Call Forwarding, all your incoming calls will be forwarded to the phone number you specify—not your Sprint PCS Voicemail box—and you won't hear a single ring on your Sprint PCS Phone. You can activate and deactivate Call Forwarding as you need it—changing the forwarding number when the need arises. Each forwarded call costs $0.10 per minute, plus any additional long-distance charges.
Sprint PCS Directory Assistance ($1.40 per call, plus airtime)
Just dial 411 on your Sprint PCS Phone to access a variety of convenient services - phone numbers, driving directions, show times, restaurant reservations and more! For only $1.40 per call, plus airtime charges, you can receive up to three requests per call and be automatically connected at no additional charge.
Casual Text Messages ($0.10 per message)
Text Messaging is a global phenomenon which has changed the way people communicate. Utilizing the keypad of your phone as a "typewriter," you can create short messages from your phone or our website and send them to almost any phone in the United States while on Sprint PCS network! Learn the lingo... For example, "see you later" is commonly sent as "C U L8R." Whether your phone uses Short Mail or SMS to send text messages, it is a simple, fun, discreet way to get your message delivered, and the easiest way to communicate. Snd a txt 2day!
Plan minutes are anytime minutes
Plan minutes are anytime minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anytime Minutes Per Month 500
Weekend Minutes Unlimited Night & Weekends
Contract Term 2 years
Monthly Service Charge $30.00**
Additional Minutes $5 for every 50 minutes for 501 - 1000; Above 1000 minutes, $0.10/min
Long Distance Charge $0.00
Roaming Charge $0.00/min - Included
Activation Fee $0.00
Early Termination Fee $200.00

Don't want any of that. I have voicemail and that other stuff turned off on the Tracfone.

It's too bad this thread has become yet another sewer. Hey, Ryan, you've become lower than a pimp. At least a pimp will *admit* beng a pimp.

You are pathetic beyond example.

You are also the biggest coward ever to post anywhere.

You see what you've done to yourself, Ryan?

Very sad.

Please don't lump me in with the help desk pervert.

Check out this link to see a sample of Mobile sites you can hit on the fly:

http://www.pdaportal.com/category.php?category=All+Categories&language=All+Languages&sortoption=Name

"The World is Yours!"

One day we will be rid of you. In the mantime, everyone can laugh as your flood of stupid words are scrolled by and ignored. In all these yeats, you've never been right about a single thing (don't drag out your URLs; more words to ignore), and unlike everyone else, you've been banned and had messages deleted from multiple sites. You're not wanted or welcome anywhere.

You are pathetic beyond example.

You are also the biggest coward ever to post anywhere.

Wake up, Cane. You DEFINE the word pathetic. How's your CLIE S320 holding up? After the 100,000 or so manic posts you've made to every PDA site over the years and the endless ranting about every perceived flaw about EVERY PDA released this decade I would have thought you'd have already saved enough pennies from your paper route to buy a color screened device. Even a used m505 from your local flea market. And so now we're to be treated to your latest obsession: cellphones. This from the dullard that ranted for years about how he hated cellphones. Here's a newsflash, Caney: stick with your Tracphone and spare us all the angst and drama as you blather endlessly on about cellphones, only to (years later) claim that you'll keep using your local phone booth instead. Put up or S T F U, Caney. You are the worst kind of troll: all (idiotic) talk and NO action.

You see what you've done to yourself, Ryan?

Very sad.

No. Sad is your pathatic attempt to manipulate Ryan. Too bad you're as obvious as a two year old child trying to steal the cookie jar.

mikecane said, "One day we will be rid of you."

No, Mike, we won't.

Ryan, the editor of this tabloid, does not want reasoned conversation and discourse.

Ryan wants the vicious, vulgar posts from TVoR and Gekko.

Can ANYONE post a link to a useful post EVER made by relyons? EVER?

Here's a clue:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8630/#122455 (Dumba$$ comment attacking me)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8630/#122477 (Thread with poor relyons getting biotchslapped unconscious)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8659/#122613 (Dumba$$ comment with relyons blaming DEVELOPERS for apps being broken by new versions of PalmOS! Hmmm...)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8659/#122623 (Dumba$$ comment attacking me)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8659/#122660 (More B.S. from relyons - a pattern is emerging here...)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8702/#122919 (feeble defense of Treo 700p by relyons)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8722/#123272 (relyons insulting Palminfocenter)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8921/#124593 (relyons insulting Palminfocenter, Gekko and TVoR)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8921/#124599 (relyons making yet another feeble attempt to have my posts here censored)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9004/#125615 (relyons attacks Gekko and TVoR yet again. Wow.)

Click on The_Voice_of_Reason's user name on the other hand and you're greeted with links to post after post of BRILLIANT PROSE overflowing with useful information and insightful commentary.

Who is this "relyons" and why do they hate TVoR? Perhaps it's time for relyons to be outed...

TVoR

But it is also hilarious. That eejit really thinks I'm going to read ANY of his drivel? He has the nerve of the very sociopath that he is. Keep up the sick effort. The only time you waste is your own.

Scrolling on...

Treocentral, 1source, etc have all gone downhill because of their ridiculous moderating practices. Many of the most interesting posters have left in disgust. TVoR would immediately leave Palminfocenter should similarly-oppressive policies be instituted here. No doubt Palm would LOVE to see TVoR silenced. As always, it's Ryan decision whether or not any posts are deemed to have merit.

With you being a former regular here, I've taken pity on you and tried to help you get a clue. Since biotchslapping is the only method of communication that mangy curs like you understand, in the future you'll get precisely what you deserve.

Take care, Caney.

TVoR

Stop thinking you're so clever.

But what makes that fact go from pathetic to hilarious is that he can't even get sex with *himself*.

Self-loathing is Skippy. And he loves to share.

Ew.

Caney's not(wo)man enough for me.

;-O

TVoR

It is unfortunate people are being banned. Now we have people that can choose to read poorly ... very poorly.

The trade package i am working on is huge. In Canada's case trade with the US is a historical event. Some are working hard to assure we have stuff to trade.

The Winter Olympics will be celebrated in 2010 that is less than four years away. Thankfully some have come up with a way to house all these people in a very ecologically sensitive area. These unique ideas will offer much for all industries including the technology and energy industry.

Pizza is a good all round source of food as it covers all the major food groups in a single slice.

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

In my religion we eat everything except people. This phrase was coined in 1972 by a seven year old child asked by classmates what was eaten "where he came from". Perhaps this phrase has more purpose today.

Peace,

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

Today the same determination is seen in interactive innovative offerings. One of the reasons the world offshore much of it's building is because their is not the desire to remove old building to make room for manufacturing. Emerging economies offer open space without displacing people or history.

The world can build on the sea if off shore choices become an issue. Environmentally sound mobile manufacturing facilities offer good access for shipping with plenty of cool water all around.

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

The only person you'll hurt by going to Windows Mobile is YOU. Colligan simply doesn't give a sh1t what a single French Canadian former fanboy does. All that matters to Palm these days is becoming the carriers' biotch.

Sorry.

TVoR

Yes, Palm's quality control problems began when they started outsourcing PDA construction to China. Go figure.

I will always believe that if Colligan had the leadership quality of Steve Jobs, we would all be using high end super compact oled Palms with Cobalt right now. Jobs is his own man, his own company, he offers unique products under a unique brand name. Palm was once like that. Now they are nothing more than a... a... what the F are they anyways? A VAR (value added reseller)? Nothing perhaps? They no longer have anything unique to which they are 100% dedicated to. Colligan keeps talking about bring the Palm simplicity and experience to WM. The guy is nuts. He is missing the whole point. YOU CANNOT SELL WM DEVICES AND BE A UNIQUE VALUE ADDED SPECIAL NICHE MAKING CONSUMER LOYALTY BUILDING COMPANY AT THE SAME TIME! Palm now takes everyone else's work, slap on their brand name, and hope for the best.

Palm is a company that is simply trying to hold on long enough to get sold this quarter. It's business strategies are not the strategies of a company planning to survive long term as an independent, profitable company. Looked at in that light, Colligan's actions are fully understandable.

This market is wild and you have to put 100% of all of your resources and expertise toward making your own unique products. That means 1 Palm Inc company, 1 in house Palm OS, all engineers and teams working 100% of the time of Palm OS products.

Palm tried to cover all bases as it was forced to maintain a Windows Mobile contingency plan because of the Cobalt Catastrophe. Palm had expected every device from the Tungsten 5 forward to have been running Cobalt. The problems we see with the LifeDrive, Treo 700p, etc. stem from the fact that they were not designed to be running PalmOS 5 (a 5 year old OS never intended to deal with things like telephony, multimedia, NVRAM, etc.).

Anyways, who the F cares anymore. Palm Inc is now nothing unique, nothing more than any of the dozen other mobile device assemblers out there, and they will fail in time.

Palm as Just Another WindowsMobile Licensee (JAWL) is a losing proposition. Nothing they do to differentiate themselves from other competitors couldn't easily be replicated with add-on (likely FREEWARE) software. And any REAL innovations Palm comes up with would immediately be cloned. With competitors able to undercut Palm's price and with Palm lacking the benefits of PalmOS, suddenly there is no reason to buy a Palm-branded device anymore. The release of the Nokia N61 and Motorola Q have (quickly) signalled the end of the Treo franchaise as a cash cow for Palm.

They probably already know this and that is why they are probably looking to sell the company.

Yes. It worked for PalmSource, so maybe it will work for Palm...

Maybe its just me who is old school and believes in American companies succeeding 100% at home first (dev, make, sell in USA and Canada first) and making unique products that lock in a customer base, gives them something special to be loyal towards and allows the company to maintain healthy profit margins.

Unfortunately it's now a global economy. If Palm can have its devices made in China (where companies don't have to deal with pesky little issues like unions, healthcare for workers, safe work environment, etc) they can then save a lot over what it would cost to have things made in the USA. Those savings can either be passed on to customers (dream on!) or pocketed by Palm's executives. (Someone told me that approximately 1/4 of the profits Palm made last quarter went to pay for incentive bonuses for its execs/staff. Now you know the REAL reason why Palm cripples its devices by cutting corners and using NVRAM/tiny amounts of RAM, leaving out voice recorder/charging light, etc., etc.

Colligan once said something like: " we plan on adding value to WM treos, putting our touch. And if the market becomes commodotized, then that will be that..." as if saying then that will be the death of that and will die off as a company or sell out to a bigger company. Palm is heading straight for that.

Palm will be sold before the end of the year. Colligan & Co. are crafty as he11 and so far have somehow managed to survive the massive problems inflicted by PalmSource's failure to get Cobalt out on time.

Finally, I will work to make WM for me. I was just beginning to successfullu program for Palm OS, but I am stopping that and going to help Mr. Gate's venture. I invested tons of time building a huge open source Palm OS library, all for nothing...

whatever

I'd recommend you get WisBar (free version), NetFront, Pocket Informant, TextMaker, Resco Explorer, TCPMP and Resco Photo Viewer to start out with.

Here's a good place to start exploring Windows Mobile software:

http://www.pocketpcmag.com/awards/nominees_wandf_2005.asp

TVoR

So far I installed

Wisbar (free)

GSplayer MP3 player (they have made huge improvements since last time I was into PPC -- 1.5 years ago). Actually better than PTunes now since has reverb, 3D, surround, auto timer turn off, bass, etc. Impressed.

TCPMP (they have now surpassed their own Palm OS ver).

The ie surfing experience is way more enjoyable than on Blazer.
And the multitasking is very appreciated.

I am happy, but at the same time sad. I wish I could be doing all this on Cobalt. I think Cobalt (or some in house Palm variant) on a fully featured handheld is the only thing that will bring me back to Palm.

Cobalt is right there, waiting/begging to be used and them idiots at Palm are too Fn stupid to use it. I hate them.

Any suggestions for a website that is like PIC but for PPC users?

TCPMP was originally a PPC program which later got ported to Palm by popular demand.

The ie surfing experience is way more enjoyable than on Blazer.

Try Opera Mobile 8.6. I haven't tried it extensively on QVGA, but on a VGA device, it makes IE Mobile look like a toy. There are also some IE addons that can improve it such as MultiIE, PIEplus, and others.

I second TVOR's suggestion of Resco Explorer. Pocket Informant is kind of a resource hog, at least the last time I checked it out. Textmaker is great, but less needed with the upgraded Office suite in WM5.

Some other recommendations I would make for programs to check out are Pocket TV Browser, Tweaks2k2, Virtual Earth Mobile, and uBook.

DateBk6 - Pocket Informant?

Nothing on WM comes even close to Datebk. I installed and tried both PI and AF, and although PI is a lot better than AF it still has long way to go until it reaches Datebk's simplicity (not to be mistaken for 'primitive') and efficiency. Example of things I couldn't do on PI:

- enter an appointment without touching the screen (the date picker wouldn't pop up using the nav button).
- define a default duration for an appt (PI uses 1h by default).
- define which views I want to cycle through upon repeatedly pressing the calendar button.

PI is a lot of eye candy but lacks refinement. I resorted to using the Today plugin PocketBreeze as my PIM. Not ideal but a he11 of a lot better than PI. And half the size.

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)

My dream combination would be two devices: a TX with all of the bugs fixed + 4gb internal flash + the missing features we all want and a very small, sleek cell phone with good RF performance and EVDO/UMTS and rock-solid BT capabilities. The phone would of course be on a domestic CDMA carrier with a cheap mobile broadband PAM (phone as modem) data plan or in GSM flavor for global usage. The final touch would be that both the PDA and the cell phone would use the same chargers (mini-usb?) to make things easier when traveling or in the car.

Additionally, another doable scenario would be a TX2 like the above with wi-fi but an internal cellular data-only radio instead of BT. Heck, with a cheap data plan I'd give up the Treo's voice part, wi-fi AND BT for cellular "anywhere" connectivity on a 320*480 screen! Then I'd just carry a cheap flip phone with good voice quality for telephone usage only.

None of this is likely to ever happen and Palm will just continue to retreat backwards screen technology wise....the T3 came out THREE years ago next month. Palm's yet to come up with anything approaching it since. And now their total product lineup is comprised of more SUB-320*320 models (160*160 Z22 + 240*240 WinMob Treos) than it was two or three years ago!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

The cover story: We-Com In The Bedroom

Perhaps the purpose for advanced economic open market(s) is so advanced interactive leading edge thoughts may mature at market value rather than mature at a discounted rates as a consequence of poor choices.

An advanced nation would not give away it's resources or transferred knowledge for free so one would expect that an advanced nation would not give away intellectual property (thoughts) either. After all it is transferred knowledge that comes from people free to share thoughts to build innovative choices. These choices become industries so transferred knowledge may have more purpose and grow offering more purpose for post secondary education.

All this activity offers ways to pay for Heath Care too by taxing the capital generated through thoughtful endeavours. What is the point in saving lives if we are to give away ones life's work. Not many advanced nations i know of dictate what their citizens should do with their life.

Many healthy citizens are compromising their heath for the freedom of others so they too may choose how they want to grow their economies working with people not for people.

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

Even though there isn't much out there for PalmOS PDA's, I still decided to pick up a TX along with a Motorola L6. These two devices are very slim and light to carry and can fit in a PDA pouch/case. Both devices cost me 50% less than a new Treo would up here in Canada, since I lucked out finding them online. The extra features on the TX such as WIFI, large screen for document viewing, and others will be greatly appreciated. The bulkiness of the Treo 650 was also getting to me during the summer since I didn't wear clothes with too many pockets.

We all have different uses for these devices, but for me, something like the slimmer models, Nokia E61 or Motorola Q, would be nice but the keyboards & Windows Mobile really sucked. They both have their limitations too. Carrying one device isn't always the perfect solution I've experienced.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

Considering HOW poor my 700P is with its ungainly lump of an external antenna, the thought has been crossing my mind that the 750v/680p design might make things even worse.

Why can Moto/Nokia et al produce sleek phones with slim internal antennae for several years now and Palm cannot source a decent performing RF chipset WITH an external antenna? Wait a minute--why am I even asking that question?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P