Comments on: ACCESS Says ALP Release Has Not Slipped

Note the following paragraph from Palmsource's ALP press release in Feb '06 http://www.palmsource.com/press/2006/021406_accesslinuxplatform.html

"ACCESS' goal is to have ALP become the platform of choice for the development of high volume, feature rich smartphones and mobile devices for high performance networks, including 2.5G and 3G, worldwide. ALP is designed to provide a complete, consistent and customizable solution for handset and mobile device manufacturers and mobile operators. ACCESS and PalmSource expect to make the ALP Software Developer Kit (SDK) available to its licensees by the end of this year (2006)." (italics mine.)

This was repeated in August 2006.

Engadget - August 2006 - http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/08/22/palmsource-and-access-drop-more-info-on-their-alp-os/
"PalmSource says they're still on track to deliver the OS to licensees at the end of the year, with the first ALP products finally emerging next spring.

So to break down Ms. O'Connell's comments:

She says ACCESS has previously stated that they plan to deliver a pre-release version of the ACCESS Linux Platform PDK to select licensees, and a pre-release version of the ACCESS Linux Platform SDK to select registered developers before the end of this year, and that general availability would be in the first half of 2007.

A qick look at google finds no mention of a pre-release version of the SDK period. Additionally there is no mention of the December 2006 date refering to pre-release anything. Soooooo, one must wonder, why the FUD from Ms. O'Connell.

The bottom line is this:

Access said that they would ship the SDK to developers by the end of 2006, which has exactly 16 days, 29 minitues and 12 seconds left as I write this. Baring any unforseen circumstances, they WILL miss the date.

I think that second quarter, 2007 is much more likely, and about 1 year too late. By then, most carriers will have the BB Pearl, Windows Smartphones like the Q and Blackjack, the various Treo models, assorted HTC devices and the Nokia e6x series. This will mean that there will be no market for ALP. No customers means no developers, No developers means that ALP is dead in the water.

Seriously, with palm commited to Garnet and Windows Mobile, who will ship ALP hardware? Who cares anymore?

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

Questions, In your opinion:

If they wait until mid 2007 to release, (worse case scenario) and We get a device by September 2007, will anyone care anymore?

What will be ALP be able to do that the competitor's can't?

Why would anyone (speaking from the point of view of the consumer, or the corporate perspective) buy ALP when other, more established solutions are available?

I see Windows Mobile, Symbian, and even RIM eating Access's lunch now, and it will only get worse in the future. I think their windows was now, and they missed it.

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

I hear it's hard to code an OS without any warm bodies in the codemonkey cages. Too bad. ALP-OS is going down in flames and will eventually take Access with it. Only the dullest of the dull codemonkeys stayed on at PalmSource after the Access buyout. I was truly shocked that Access hasn't already simply shut down the US PalmSource division and brought in some hired guns that actually know what they're doing. Given PalmSource's spotless track record of utter failure, the fact that Access would entrust PalmSource with even the smallest part of ALP-OS is shocking, to say the least.

Earlier this year I predicted that Access would be either bankrupt or sold by February, 2008 and that part of PalmOS would have been sold off. Access management is apparently doing everything it can to prove me right.

TVoR-san

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/

http://www.slashphone.com/89/6073.html

*IF* Palm were (could?) produce such a device (one that worked at least as well as the Treo 680)--320*480, 3.5mm headphone jack, 1gb of internal flash, EVDO and a removable battery--it'd make the iPhone look like a 512mb Shuffle in comparison. I'd pay $600 for such a device running POS...IF it was a capable phone.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9110/#128206

True.

I have been reading his stuff for years. I think that he really believes in the Palm principles that were what the platform was founded on. He is just completely frustrated with Palm's inability to execute over the last 5 years.

Palm took what was a core principle, the idea that a device should be able to do what it was intended, do it well, and do it without the user having to think about it, (Zen of Palm) and used that as an excuse to sit on their butts and fail to innovate.

For those failures, we have been repeatedly turned into beta testers for a company that just refuses to innovate effectively (Tungsten T, T5, TW, M100, Treo 650 etc). Even stuff we get that is new, and revolutionairy (Lifedrive, Treo series, M500 series) has had serious issues with implementation.

For that, palm deserves TVOR and PIC needs him to serve as the "Loyal Oppisition". Otherwise, PIC devolves in to a big circle jerk for a dying platform.

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

The bottom line, is that TVOR makes some incredibly valid points. To ignore the substance of his stuff just so one can run to his mommy because someone is being mean to you is the height of foolishness.

And extremely funny as well I might add.

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

To some, not all, money talks louder than intellect. The common denominator in an intellectual debate is capital ... those that can think enhance value and those that cannot think process capital by purchasing thoughts. All good just different choices offering different value.

Many will have a wonderful Christmas and Holiday season as a consequence of our crew ... i trust all the crew will too.

Peace,

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

I didnt say Palm did a whole lot of innovating this year, what I said (and you quoted me) was a comment to TVOR about bashing anything and everything they do. They did release 4 smartphones this year, you may not like them, but they did it, and I personally love mine.

" there will always be flaws, live with it. This is a ridiculous comment. Consumers should never have to life with it."

Redicoulous? You show me a smartphone that has not had flaws or lacked some features that others have? Show me this wonderful device, I would seriosly love to buy one. I understand and to some degree agree with you on the Palm OS. I love it too, and don't want to see it fade away into oblivion, but come on, lamenting about it on a forum is pointless. You need to buy the product you want to buy based on its features. If Palm doesnt have it, buy something else that does, or comes as close as it gets.

I agree, and I dont think he should be banned. I do wish he would STFU most of the time though =)

If you disagree with anything posted by TVoR or can prove anything posted is incorrect, please feel free to post a rebuttal.

He has some serious anger issues. To hang out on a forum and verboviolently bash anything and everything Palm and Palmsource, now Access does is just weird, and kind of sad.

No, TVoR does not have "serious anger issues". You just don't get it do you? Ask a grown-up or someone smarter than you (most people?) to explain this to you. Make sure you ask them to... speak... slowly...

TVOR, dood, move on already and buy a winmobile device or some other piece of crap and complain about it for a change. You will never EVER find a device that satisfies you, there will always be flaws, live with it. Reading your comments out loud It feels like my ears are bleeding, It just hurts. LOL

"dood"? Ahem. Over the years I have used PPC/Windows Mobile devices as well and find PalmOS preferrable for my uses. While no device will ever be perfect, that's not an excuse to give up trying to improve the devices. Ironically, with minor changes to devices we've seen over the past 3 years we could currently be enjoying some superb hardware. Among the devices I've used I would list the original Pilot, Palm IIIx, TRGpro, Handera 330, CLIE S300, CLIE UX50, Samsung i500, CLIE TH55 (European) and CLIE VZ90 as devices that came close to perfection for their time. It would not take much effort to turn the latter 4 devices into nearly "perfect" devices for 2007. If the world was full of Palm Apologists like you, in 2007 we would likely still be using $300 monochrome Palm III derivatives that lacked memory expansion, multimedia, connectivity and cellphone capability. Fortunately, some of us expect more for our money and are willing to vote with our wallets.

If you don't like TVoR's comments, I suggest you simply DON'T READ THEM.

Let's be clear: there's a difference between criticism of a product, no matter how it's couched, and direct, personal abuse of specific individuals. A variety of folks, myself included, have been subjected to having their home addresses, personal family photographs, etc., posted here, with predictably disgusting commentary, by "The Mouth", not to mention being the targets of direct abuse in both sexual and scatological terms coming from the same quarter. The last time this came up, changes of some sort were promised, but no changes have materialized.

Since it seems that a plurality of folks here can't distinguish fair commentary from foul, the people who might have something concrete to say have universally chosen to stay away--as I'll be continuing to do once I post this.

(But I fully expect another bucket-load of comments along precisely the lines I've described above, coming from precisely the usual source, in response to this observation...)

God says, "Take whatever you want, and pay for it."

Your sad, quiet indignance is touching, Mr. Schlesinger. It's unfortunate to see a sweet, polite, generous individual such as yourself senselessly and brutally VICTIMIZED by The Big Bad TVoR. Can we expect you to continue popping up here every few months to mention that you won't be participating at Palminfocenter as long as The Big Bad TVoR is running rampant in these parts? Maybe you should concentrate on actually trying to distill a REAL, WORKING OS from your current ALP-OS vaporware instead. As usual, thanks for sharing your tremendous insight with the PalmOS community here. And as always, ki o tsukete.

TBBTVoR

"They're all dead..."

It is fascinating to consider your comments. I find the following most telling.

1.) It was you, not TVOR who started with the personal attacks today.

2.) I agree that the distain that Palm's senior management has on it's users is very evident in the way they don't care what we think. That is Palm's biggest problem. And what does that make us? Suckers. We are eating it big time watching a platform that had such promise getting smoked by what were inferior platforms.

Oh, and to respond to your eariler post about that praiseworthy things Palm has done in the last year.

1. you didn't answer the question. But then you couldn't because the answer is, of course, nothing. This year has not been a success for Palm. Look at thier releases:

Treo 700w - A device that forced palm to admit that they couldn't get the latest features on a Palm OS phone.

Treo 700p - A device that had the memory fixes that the 650 shold have had, but also added more lag.

Treo 700wx - A device that told us all that Palm can't even release a Windows mobile phone 700w without screwing it up somehow.

Treo 680p - A device that told us how long Palm needed in order to figure out that you can build in an internal antenna while simultanouesly shortening battery life. Answer 3 years.

In the same calendar year, Microsoft has perfected thier push email technology and released major new devices in new kinds of platforms, Nokia has created a solid alternative to the Blackberry, and RIM has figured out how to expand it's product line to do multimedia.

In fact, we can expand this question, as I origionally meant it to read. What praiseworthy thing has Palm done in the 3 years?

As far as the competetion, What praytell is Palm's answer to the Blackjack or the Q? What is Palm's answer to the BB Pearl? What is Palm's PalmOS answer to 3g? What is there that palm is the best platform for?

The bottom line is that Palm has three choices: Lead, Follow or get out of the way. Right now, palm is having chioce # 3 enforced on them, not by choice, but by sheer unwillingness to make a choice.

That is where we come in. We can save Palm's Soul. We, the honored audience for all things Palm, can help them, if only they would listen. Sastify us, and they will win.

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

I'm not completely convinced that I represent a large enough segment of the population to be the target for the R&D department at Palm.

If it takes 3 years of Palm's R&D department to double the memory and place the antenna inside a cellphone then I'm grateful they're not working in any other industry; otherwise we would all still be driving Model Ts, watching black and white TV and flying around in wooden bi-planes!

Most people are interested in ordinary phones and not smartphones. By ignoring the power users, the ones who do give a damn which OS runs on their device, Palm's currently ignoring the very segment that takes the greatest interest and has the greatest devotion to its products. All fine and dandy, they're the ones running the company but I'm glad I'm not a Palm shareholder!

I don't see any effort by Palm in the UK to advertise the 680 to the mass market: no TV ads, no ads in the street, no ads in the papers, no 680s in the shops. The only place I've seen ads for the 680 are on PDA/smartphone websites - now isn't that still preaching to the choir?

Palm have limited resources, and have chosen to promote the 750v over the 680 in Europe. We'll find out whether that was a wise decision or not in another few days after the Q2FY07 Results...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

No doubt. But when (to give just one example) a pointer to a picture of me and my daughter is posted, and she's treated as a subject for comments of a gross and graphic nature, my concern isn't whether people believe those comments. "Emailing Ryan" is not going to result in a response I'll find satisfactory; the damage has already been done. Similarly with the endless blatant attempts at character assassination via Google-bombing: Google never forgets, eh?

"We appreciate a diversity of opinion..."

A diversity of opinion about people's home addresses, their sexual orientations and histories, and whether they're having incestuous relations with their children...?

Sorry, but that sort of thing, especially when viewed as representing some sort of "opinion" worth airing, excusing, or even tolerating, isn't much of a draw for me, and I'm not the only one who's made that sort of assessment.

Everyone. And way cheaper, too.

> ...Where are these devices that blow Palm out of the water...

They're everywhere - in fact, they're on the home pages of Cingular, Verizon Wireless,, and T-Mobile minimally in a highly visible manner - go check.

> ...and if they are soooo great, why are we all still here at PIC
> whining about Palm?

Inertia.

http://tinyurl.com/y2wlqz

Stonemirror:
A diversity of opinion about people's home addresses, their sexual orientations and histories, and whether they're having incestuous relations with their children...?

Sorry, but that sort of thing, especially when viewed as representing some sort of "opinion" worth airing, excusing, or even tolerating, isn't much of a draw for me, and I'm not the only one who's made that sort of assessment.

No. When the postings around here get like that I have a tendency to just keep rolling the scroll wheel, because it's not what I'm really interested in. I think some more stern moderating might be appropriate, and indeed I've noticed some of the more flagrant "personal attack" content has been deleted lately.

But anyways, I can understand packing up your marbles and leaving. Sometimes people just push you way too far. But if you ever need a hug, freakout is here, in all his handsome, toned, sun-dappled glory...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

How can one pack up what one had lost a long, LONG time go in a tragic CONSPIRACY?

Sometimes people just push you way too far.

And then you snap. Ever seen a PalmSource manager go postal? Kinda like a poodle on amphetamines. Sad, yet funny. In a W T F kind of way...

But if you ever need a hug, freakout is here, in all his handsome, toned, sun-dappled glory...

You might regret making that offer when a certain someone cops a feel*.

TVoR

*Timmmmmay got fingered

"Mr. Kettle! There's a Mr. Pot on the line for you..."

$100 was our agreement, right?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Foo, as usual, you have a little trouble (either from lack of ability or willful avoidance) with reading. There's no implication about Palm OS growing. Just information about how things might transition. IMO, mobile computing is the future, not Palm OS as we know it. And no, my company isn't the least bit dependent on the future of any one platform. We cover them all.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I feel bad taking your money Beersie, it's just too easy. Tell you what, donate the $100 to Oxfam ( https://donate.oxfamamerica.org/02/oxfamamerica?source=fy06_don_oa_home ) and we'll call it quits.

Considering the 650 was Palm's first smartphone (after the Handspring acquisition), I think they did a bloody good job. I would still be using mine today, if the prospect of a red Treo hadn't been so damn alluring. ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

100% goes to the recipient, it's the "fishing rod" vs "fish" approach to helping people, and you almost always get paid back so you can relend and keep expanding your support.

And yeah, Sam, I'll gladly add another $100 to my Oxfam donation.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

The Green phone tool kit is now available and actually shipping for anyone who wants to slap together a Linux smartphone.

If ALP continues to slip and Access continues to make up stories about how it's not slipping, I would not be surprised to see a repeat of the GSPDA fiasco where GSPDA announced a Cobalt phone that they never shipped; instead shipping a SavajeOS based Smartphone they call Jasper.

Eventually Nokia's going to drop the other shoe on Maemo.

Someday, although apparently not this decade, Google's going to get their smartphone out.

Moto's not hanging around waiting for everybody else.

iPhone, which is a dumb phone/mp3 player, is due out any day now, leaving one to wonder when Apple's smartphone will hit the street.

May You Live in Interesting Times

Let me make the point more clearly: Access is very late to market and the position they hoped to stake out has already been taken by Trolltech with their Green phone.

You're splitting hairs. Throwing a snapshot of the current source tree over the fence doesn't qualify as a release whether it's to licensees or to everyone, and Access didn't say "prerelease", they said "SDK". No matter how you look at it, Maureen's spin doctoring.

What kind of open source contribution? AFIACT, the only open source contributions out of PSRC/Access have been OMAP bug fixes I did over a year ago, and OpenBinder, which was only contributed because people leaving the company wanted to use it on their next product -- and, AFAICT, are the only people using it.

How does that compare to, say, scratchbox and the open parts of maemo?

May You Live in Interesting Times

And the Trolltech product that is comparable in the completeness of the integration work to ALP is not due until Q2 of 2007: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7481799748.html

It seems like Trolltech has an edge with Linux hackers who can get started on developing applications for the Greenphone, but it's not at all clear that they have the edge in delivering what second-tier OEMs need to get a complete smartphone to market. I don't think we'll know that for several months.

I agree that Nokia has made some important contributions to open source and I used them as an example of a company that's done better in this than ACCESS to date. What I was talking about is the application framework ACCESS is about to release. Naturally, it all depends on adoption, but it sounds like a contribution that strikes at the heart of the fragmentation problem. For one thing, it's being released under the liberal Mozilla license, which will make it easier and/or cheaper to combine with other components than Qtopia is. Trolltech does the popular open source "extortion" technique where they tell you: "Sure it's open source--it's GPL. Oh, GPL won't let you combine non-GPL components X and Y with it? That's ok, you can buy a commercial license from us." That's not going to help create an open standard.

Not that ACCESS is going to open the source of the whole MAX framework, just that if the part they are releasing is what they claim it's the first contribution I know of that really addresses the standards-building work that has been done by MLI and, particularly, LIPS. Do you know others? This is important. As you know, mobile Linux has a good chance of frittering off into irrelevancy if some standard ways of doing things aren't settled, like managing and securing applications to the satisfaction of twitchy wireless carriers.

My concern is not so much that ACCESS is way behind the competition--I don't see it. My concern is that they didn't become an obvious Redhat-like market leader, which would have helped them champion the standards needed to avoid fragmentation. And that's the biggest danger right now. I'm worried that Motorola/NEC/Panasonic and Co. which haven't done *anything* to date, will be able to crush the fragile progress toward standards too easily under the weight of their combined market muscle. How serious are they about open standards? How serious is *anybody* about standards right now? We still don't know. That's my biggest concern for ALP and for Linux in general.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Access missed their deadline and tried to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with a load of crap.

Is their recently-released (March 2007) SDK truly finished now? . Or was it another example or a release desined to save face among the developer community + with potential customers? YOU decide.

http://dl.access-company.com/sdk/sdk.tgz

TVoR

I wouldn't sweat it though. It's just maemo, debianized, with the ALP widget set.

and a very old version of gcc

May You Live in Interesting Times

The facts are these:

1) ACCESS did release the SDK to *some* developers in the Early Access program and they did it when they said they would.
2) They've gone through several revisions since the initial release.
3) They've done a terrible job explaining to developers what they are doing, for example, not explaining to developers who haven't been given access what is going on and why the SDK isn't generally available, or at least available to everyone that was approved for the Early Access program.

As far as 1 and 2 are concerned, this is exactly as it should be. As much as some would wish otherwise, Job #1 for ACCESS right now is not to try to support the whole 3rd party developer community (i.e. make the whole world your beta test group). It's to give the best support possible to the developers who are writing apps that the ODMs and carrier want to ship in ROM on the first devices. No problem there. Ask any developer which they would rather see first, the SDK or the devices, and most will tell you "devices."

As for 3, I'm just shaking my head. I don't know if it's the notorious opacity of Japanese corporate culture or just garden variety incompetence in managing PR, but the deafening silence coming out of that organization together with the tiny effort that would be required to avoid looking like liars to the ecosystem they claim they want to cultivate... well, it just makes you wonder. They've got all our email addresses and once in a blue moon they put out a developer newsletter. So just send out a letter that says something like this:

"Thanks for your patience and your interest in the ACCESS Linux Platform. We have just released version 0.6 of the SDK to our beta group and are getting great response. The applications to our Early Access beta program have been overwhelming, and to ensure that our engineers can stay focused on improving the code and documentation instead of reading email we've had to limit the size of the beta group. This also helps us give the attention we need to the ODMs and carriers that are developing ALP-powered products for the market. We're guessing that you're as eager to hear these product announcements as we are, and your patience helps us make this happen. We'll be inviting more of you in as we progress toward the general release."

I'm waiting to get the latest version of Ubuntu installed before I check the SDK out more closely, and I understand from another developer that this is missing some things that have been released subsequently. But for those who are interested, here's what I see in the SDK (from by blog post earlier in the week):

* ALP Development Suite based on Eclipse CDT (familiar to PODS users)
* Scratchbox development environment for ALP
* Scratchbox arm-gcc3.4.4 and i486-gcc3.4.4 toolchains for ALP
* User-mode Linux (UML) a kind of virtual machine that runs Linux as a user process under another Linux kernel. Includes userspace utilities like uml_mconsole, uml_moo, uml_switch, uml_net and tunctl.
* ALP Simulator, based on UML kernel
* ALP GDB for debugging both ARM and UML targets from Scratchbox
* ALP UI Builder based on Glade-3 with MAX widget set integration (based on the development snapshot of Glade-3 from gnome.org)
* Rootstraps for booting the ARM device and UML simulator
* Java runtime for the ALP Development Suite (i.e. for running the tools themselves, not for running Java ME stuff)
* Documentation for both open source and ALP middleware components, including a Getting Started page for first time users
* Sample projects that illustrate GTK and GLADE widget usage and good coding practices (clean, commented, formatted)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

No, Marty. In other words you've got Cobalt:

pure, unadulterated VAPORWARE that will be shipping on exactly NO devices near you any time soon.

TVoR