MobileInfocenter

ACCESS Says ALP Release Has Not Slipped

Maureen O'Connell, an ACCESS spokesperson, has issued a statement to PalmInfocenter clarifying the timing of the release of the ACCESS Linux Platform. She says ACCESS has previously stated that they plan to deliver a pre-release version of the ACCESS Linux Platform PDK to select licensees, and a pre-release version of the ACCESS Linux Platform SDK to select registered developers before the end of this year, and that general availability would be in the first half of 2007.

She also has confirmed that ACCESS has in fact already delivered pre-release PDKs and SDKs to a number of companies.

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Cut the BULL, Access.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/14/2006 9:45:40 PM # Q
W T F is a "pre-release" version? A sketch of the ALP-OS architecture from the back of a Hooters c0cktail napkin? Get serious.

We've already all seen this B.S. with Copeland and Cobalt. Let us know when you have a finalized, stable OS that's READY TO GO ON A REAL DEVICE. Until then, please S T F U, Access.

TVoR

RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
ThunderCracker @ 12/14/2006 11:07:36 PM # Q
I call baloney as well.

Note the following paragraph from Palmsource's ALP press release in Feb '06 http://www.palmsource.com/press/2006/021406_accesslinuxplatform.html

"ACCESS' goal is to have ALP become the platform of choice for the development of high volume, feature rich smartphones and mobile devices for high performance networks, including 2.5G and 3G, worldwide. ALP is designed to provide a complete, consistent and customizable solution for handset and mobile device manufacturers and mobile operators. ACCESS and PalmSource expect to make the ALP Software Developer Kit (SDK) available to its licensees by the end of this year (2006)." (italics mine.)

This was repeated in August 2006.

Engadget - August 2006 - http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/08/22/palmsource-and-access-drop-more-info-on-their-alp-os/
"PalmSource says they're still on track to deliver the OS to licensees at the end of the year, with the first ALP products finally emerging next spring.

So to break down Ms. O'Connell's comments:

She says ACCESS has previously stated that they plan to deliver a pre-release version of the ACCESS Linux Platform PDK to select licensees, and a pre-release version of the ACCESS Linux Platform SDK to select registered developers before the end of this year, and that general availability would be in the first half of 2007.

A qick look at google finds no mention of a pre-release version of the SDK period. Additionally there is no mention of the December 2006 date refering to pre-release anything. Soooooo, one must wonder, why the FUD from Ms. O'Connell.

The bottom line is this:

Access said that they would ship the SDK to developers by the end of 2006, which has exactly 16 days, 29 minitues and 12 seconds left as I write this. Baring any unforseen circumstances, they WILL miss the date.

I think that second quarter, 2007 is much more likely, and about 1 year too late. By then, most carriers will have the BB Pearl, Windows Smartphones like the Q and Blackjack, the various Treo models, assorted HTC devices and the Nokia e6x series. This will mean that there will be no market for ALP. No customers means no developers, No developers means that ALP is dead in the water.

Seriously, with palm commited to Garnet and Windows Mobile, who will ship ALP hardware? Who cares anymore?


Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
PenguinPowered @ 12/15/2006 1:32:16 AM # Q
pre-releases are common in the industry and are sometimes called previews. They're unfinished, rough cut, versions of the software that you share with critical customers to get their feedback earlier in the process and to give them a head start on developing products with your tools.

My current development, for example, is using a prerelease of GCC 4.1.2.

I am surprised that they'd try to brazen their way out of a schedule slip so baldly.

But I am not surprised that they're slipping.

I am surprised that Access hasn't stepped in and taken a more hands-on role in managing PSRC. I would have thought the disaster would have been apparent to them six months ago.



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
ThunderCracker @ 12/15/2006 2:03:29 AM # Q
PP,

Questions, In your opinion:

If they wait until mid 2007 to release, (worse case scenario) and We get a device by September 2007, will anyone care anymore?

What will be ALP be able to do that the competitor's can't?

Why would anyone (speaking from the point of view of the consumer, or the corporate perspective) buy ALP when other, more established solutions are available?

I see Windows Mobile, Symbian, and even RIM eating Access's lunch now, and it will only get worse in the future. I think their windows was now, and they missed it.

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
PenguinPowered @ 12/15/2006 2:54:16 AM # Q
To oversimplify, there are three potential meaningful markets for Linux phones: China, Japan, and Europe/US.

I think the window of opportunity will soon close for Linux phones in Europe and the US.

I think the market for Linux phones exists and may be growing in China, for various reasons.

I don't know how Linux phones will do, in general, in Japan.

That said, here's my opinion:

1) Only the Chinese will care
2) By the time it ships, nothing
3) The window hasn't completely closed on Linux phones, mostly because certain big phone makers, notably Nokia and Motorola, are still interested. But the Linux community seems to be doing everything possible to make a Linux smart phone in the US and European markets unlikely. This isn't intentional sabatoge, it's just that the community cares a lot more about pcs then they do about embedded systems, and when they care about embedded systems it tends to be things like routers and wifi access points.

Supposedly, on Monday, Apple is going to announce iphone. that's going to put a dent in everyone's idea of what the phone market should be, and if it's just the ipod-phone that everyone is expecting it's going to leave people wondering what they're up to.

We live in interesting times.


May You Live in Interesting Times

Access management on crack? Apparently.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/15/2006 4:15:18 AM # Q
Who the F do they think they're fooling trying to Palm off Cobalt/Copeland-style pre-alpha code as a finished product? They should be ashamed of themselves for attempting to B.S. the PalmOS community like this.

I hear it's hard to code an OS without any warm bodies in the codemonkey cages. Too bad. ALP-OS is going down in flames and will eventually take Access with it. Only the dullest of the dull codemonkeys stayed on at PalmSource after the Access buyout. I was truly shocked that Access hasn't already simply shut down the US PalmSource division and brought in some hired guns that actually know what they're doing. Given PalmSource's spotless track record of utter failure, the fact that Access would entrust PalmSource with even the smallest part of ALP-OS is shocking, to say the least.

Earlier this year I predicted that Access would be either bankrupt or sold by February, 2008 and that part of PalmOS would have been sold off. Access management is apparently doing everything it can to prove me right.

TVoR-san

OT: iPod phone™ to be renamed iCon™
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/15/2006 10:20:39 PM # Q
A TVoR exclusive!!!


Sources close to the TVoR Council have learned that the long-anticipated iPod phone™ will be christened the iCon™ when it is formally introduced to the world by Steve "Svengali" Jobs at Macworld SF January 9, 2007. "It's an iPod AND a cellphone. Wow." Yes, there are already several dozen cellphones available TODAY that function as MP3 players, but this one is SO much better because it has been touched (improperly?) by Mr. Jobs and also sports Apple styling and Apple logos. What more could an Apple Cultist want?


"Watch out for the iCon™, Kiddies - don't get fooled again..."

TVoR
Copyright, 2006

*iCon™ is a registered trademark of TVoR, Inc. All rights reserved.

iPhone? BAH! Here's the REAL deal!
hkklife @ 12/15/2006 10:58:21 PM # Q
THIS, THIS is what Palm SHOULD have produced one year ago as the LOGICAL melding of the TX & the Treo.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/

http://www.slashphone.com/89/6073.html

*IF* Palm were (could?) produce such a device (one that worked at least as well as the Treo 680)--320*480, 3.5mm headphone jack, 1gb of internal flash, EVDO and a removable battery--it'd make the iPhone look like a 512mb Shuffle in comparison. I'd pay $600 for such a device running POS...IF it was a capable phone.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
SeldomVisitor @ 12/16/2006 7:45:28 AM # Q
RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
SeldomVisitor @ 12/16/2006 7:47:47 AM # Q
Is Access a bunch of lying biotches? (Rhetorical question)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/25/2007 1:33:54 AM # Q
Behold the apocryphal (still unfinished?) ALPOS SDK:


http://dl.access-company.com/sdk/sdk.tgz

Do these Access dumba$$es think the Palm community is blind? If they're going to slip with dates then just be honest and admit it. [This OS coding stuff sure is hard work, isn't it?]

CUT THE B.S., Access.

Smells like Cobalt Part II has hit the fan. More bad news to follow in a few months...


TVoR

RE: Cut the BULL, Access.
SeldomVisitor @ 4/25/2007 6:23:48 AM # Q
> ...Smells like Cobalt Part II has hit the fan...

True.

Reply to this comment

I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR

rmhurdman @ 12/14/2006 11:14:46 PM # Q
What an idiot that user is. And it's a waste of time reading his posts. Especially ones like the above that don't say anything.

Go away, you little moron.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
ThunderCracker @ 12/14/2006 11:38:34 PM # Q
I completely disagree with you.

I have been reading his stuff for years. I think that he really believes in the Palm principles that were what the platform was founded on. He is just completely frustrated with Palm's inability to execute over the last 5 years.

Palm took what was a core principle, the idea that a device should be able to do what it was intended, do it well, and do it without the user having to think about it, (Zen of Palm) and used that as an excuse to sit on their butts and fail to innovate.

For those failures, we have been repeatedly turned into beta testers for a company that just refuses to innovate effectively (Tungsten T, T5, TW, M100, Treo 650 etc). Even stuff we get that is new, and revolutionairy (Lifedrive, Treo series, M500 series) has had serious issues with implementation.

For that, palm deserves TVOR and PIC needs him to serve as the "Loyal Oppisition". Otherwise, PIC devolves in to a big circle jerk for a dying platform.

Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
twrock @ 12/15/2006 12:44:15 AM # Q
For that, palm deserves TVOR and PIC needs him to serve as the "Loyal Oppisition".

Generally I agree with your assessment. But I don't think TVOR's the only one around here who approaches Palm with a critical eye.

However, it'd be nice to see TVOR stick with looking at Palm critically and quit with all of the personal attacks (trolling). That's the crap that gets old for me.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
ThunderCracker @ 12/15/2006 2:32:13 AM # Q
Granted. There are others in the opposition. And as far TVOR's personal attacks, I think he cold tone it done sometimes, but a lot of people would do well to grow the heck up on a sticks and stones basis, if you catch my drift.

The bottom line, is that TVOR makes some incredibly valid points. To ignore the substance of his stuff just so one can run to his mommy because someone is being mean to you is the height of foolishness.


And extremely funny as well I might add.



Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
e_tellurian @ 12/15/2006 1:04:04 PM # Q
Banning people is a sad choice.

What causes people to want to ban people? In this environment of pure intellect do we undermine our intellect when we have chosen to give up our freedom of speech for a button?

Have some purchased the systematic removal of our intellectuals from society? Do most people need/want to create knowledge honourably and with integrity?

What does knowledge look like?

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
SeldomVisitor @ 12/15/2006 1:19:19 PM # Q
It's an amorphous blob.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
retrospooty @ 12/15/2006 7:54:08 PM # Q
"Banning people is a sad choice."

I agree, and I dont think he should be banned. I do wish he would STFU most of the time though =)

He has some serious anger issues. To hang out on a forum and verboviolently bash anything and everything Palm and Palmsource, now Access does is just weird, and kind of sad.

TVOR, dood, move on already and buy a winmobile device or some other piece of crap and complain about it for a change. You will never EVER find a device that satisfies you, there will always be flaws, live with it. Reading your comments out loud It feels like my ears are bleeding, It just hurts. LOL

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
e_tellurian @ 12/16/2006 12:50:43 PM # Q
Foul language seems to be an issue ... for some.

To some, not all, money talks louder than intellect. The common denominator in an intellectual debate is capital ... those that can think enhance value and those that cannot think process capital by purchasing thoughts. All good just different choices offering different value.

Many will have a wonderful Christmas and Holiday season as a consequence of our crew ... i trust all the crew will too.

Peace,

E-T



e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
ThunderCracker @ 12/16/2006 3:41:06 PM # Q

He has some serious anger issues. To hang out on a forum and verboviolently bash anything and everything Palm and Palmsource, now Access does is just weird, and kind of sad.

TVOR, dood, move on already and buy a winmobile device or some other piece of crap and complain about it for a change. You will never EVER find a device that satisfies you, there will always be flaws, live with it. Reading your comments out loud It feels like my ears are bleeding, It just hurts. LOL

Please name me 3 things palm has done in the last 1 years that was really worthy of praise. Palm has done nothing worthy of praise since the Treo 600. Since then, Palm has done nothing but release buggy underengineered hardware that simply fixes what should have been done right from the get go!

PalmSource, and Now Access has been a functional disaster. ALP is vapor, Cobalt was stillborn. ALP, when it is released, will have little to no market outside of China.

So in the end, we have Palm, a company that practically refuses to innovate, and when they do they screw it up. And Palmsource/Access, a company that apparently innovates so much that they can't successfully ship anything.

The sad truth is that id didn't have to be that way. Remember how we all laughed at the silly Windows CE devices in 1998? Well Microsoft is now kicking Palm's Zen up one side and down the other. Not only that, but RIM and Nokia have joined in as well. Why? Becaused they out innovated Palm. To lose for this reason is inexcusable.

But, my friend, the most galling comment you made is this gem:

there will always be flaws, live with it.

This is a ridiculous comment. Consumers should never have to life with it. The bottom line, my friend is that the platform we loved, Palm OS is dying because the powers that be refused to reconize the power of innovation. Instead, they have used us, their loyal following to beta test their hardware. And like sheep we followed, because we thought that something really cool was around the corner that would make it all better.

Well now we know, ALP is a OS insearch of a platform. ALP will not look or feel like any kind of Palm OS we know. In Fact, ALP is going to get crushed in the market by Windows Mobile, RIM and Nokia because they waited sooooo long to get to the market, that ALL of their competitors got better.

Our only hope is for a perpetually warmed over version of garnet, the OS that would not die, from Palm. Well that is not an acceptable alternative for long.

All that is left for us is to wonder what could have been, and lament our sucker status, as we slip into amigahood.



Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
retrospooty @ 12/16/2006 5:10:50 PM # Q
"Please name me 3 things palm has done in the last 1 years that was really worthy of praise. Palm has done nothing worthy of praise since the Treo 600. Since then, Palm has done nothing but release buggy underengineered hardware that simply fixes what should have been done right from the get go!"

I didnt say Palm did a whole lot of innovating this year, what I said (and you quoted me) was a comment to TVOR about bashing anything and everything they do. They did release 4 smartphones this year, you may not like them, but they did it, and I personally love mine.


" there will always be flaws, live with it. This is a ridiculous comment. Consumers should never have to life with it."

Redicoulous? You show me a smartphone that has not had flaws or lacked some features that others have? Show me this wonderful device, I would seriosly love to buy one. I understand and to some degree agree with you on the Palm OS. I love it too, and don't want to see it fade away into oblivion, but come on, lamenting about it on a forum is pointless. You need to buy the product you want to buy based on its features. If Palm doesnt have it, buy something else that does, or comes as close as it gets.


RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
stonemirror @ 12/16/2006 6:53:22 PM # Q
Let's be clear: there's a difference between criticism of a product, no matter how it's couched, and direct, personal abuse of specific individuals. A variety of folks, myself included, have been subjected to having their home addresses, personal family photographs, etc., posted here, with predictably disgusting commentary, by "The Mouth", not to mention being the targets of direct abuse in both sexual and scatological terms coming from the same quarter. The last time this came up, changes of some sort were promised, but no changes have materialized.

Since it seems that a plurality of folks here can't distinguish fair commentary from foul, the people who might have something concrete to say have universally chosen to stay away--as I'll be continuing to do once I post this.

(But I fully expect another bucket-load of comments along precisely the lines I've described above, coming from precisely the usual source, in response to this observation...)

God says, "Take whatever you want, and pay for it."

TVoR Council's response to yet more cowardly attacks on TVoR:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/16/2006 10:25:14 PM # Q
"Banning people is a sad choice."

I agree, and I dont think he should be banned. I do wish he would STFU most of the time though =)

If you disagree with anything posted by TVoR or can prove anything posted is incorrect, please feel free to post a rebuttal.

He has some serious anger issues. To hang out on a forum and verboviolently bash anything and everything Palm and Palmsource, now Access does is just weird, and kind of sad.

No, TVoR does not have "serious anger issues". You just don't get it do you? Ask a grown-up or someone smarter than you (most people?) to explain this to you. Make sure you ask them to... speak... slowly...

TVOR, dood, move on already and buy a winmobile device or some other piece of crap and complain about it for a change. You will never EVER find a device that satisfies you, there will always be flaws, live with it. Reading your comments out loud It feels like my ears are bleeding, It just hurts. LOL

"dood"? Ahem. Over the years I have used PPC/Windows Mobile devices as well and find PalmOS preferrable for my uses. While no device will ever be perfect, that's not an excuse to give up trying to improve the devices. Ironically, with minor changes to devices we've seen over the past 3 years we could currently be enjoying some superb hardware. Among the devices I've used I would list the original Pilot, Palm IIIx, TRGpro, Handera 330, CLIE S300, CLIE UX50, Samsung i500, CLIE TH55 (European) and CLIE VZ90 as devices that came close to perfection for their time. It would not take much effort to turn the latter 4 devices into nearly "perfect" devices for 2007. If the world was full of Palm Apologists like you, in 2007 we would likely still be using $300 monochrome Palm III derivatives that lacked memory expansion, multimedia, connectivity and cellphone capability. Fortunately, some of us expect more for our money and are willing to vote with our wallets.

If you don't like TVoR's comments, I suggest you simply DON'T READ THEM.

Let's be clear: there's a difference between criticism of a product, no matter how it's couched, and direct, personal abuse of specific individuals. A variety of folks, myself included, have been subjected to having their home addresses, personal family photographs, etc., posted here, with predictably disgusting commentary, by "The Mouth", not to mention being the targets of direct abuse in both sexual and scatological terms coming from the same quarter. The last time this came up, changes of some sort were promised, but no changes have materialized.

Since it seems that a plurality of folks here can't distinguish fair commentary from foul, the people who might have something concrete to say have universally chosen to stay away--as I'll be continuing to do once I post this.

(But I fully expect another bucket-load of comments along precisely the lines I've described above, coming from precisely the usual source, in response to this observation...)

God says, "Take whatever you want, and pay for it."

Your sad, quiet indignance is touching, Mr. Schlesinger. It's unfortunate to see a sweet, polite, generous individual such as yourself senselessly and brutally VICTIMIZED by The Big Bad TVoR. Can we expect you to continue popping up here every few months to mention that you won't be participating at Palminfocenter as long as The Big Bad TVoR is running rampant in these parts? Maybe you should concentrate on actually trying to distill a REAL, WORKING OS from your current ALP-OS vaporware instead. As usual, thanks for sharing your tremendous insight with the PalmOS community here. And as always, ki o tsukete.


TBBTVoR


"They're all dead..."

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
retrospooty @ 12/16/2006 11:22:54 PM # Q
"You just don't get it do you? Ask a grown-up or someone smarter than you (most people?) to explain this to you. Make sure you ask them to... speak... slowly..."

TVOR... is that the best you can do? Talking in another circle, endlessly bashing Palm and anyone that disagrees with your negative (and pointless) approach? So I disagree with you, therefore I must be stupid or a child? ugh...

You go on as if you are fulfilling some moral duty to point out how Palm has screwed everthing up. What do you think you will accomplish posting on a forum? Will Ed Colligan and his senior team read your posts and suddenly light bulbs will go off in thier heads and they will change thier ways? Come on, this is a business, that wont happen. Nothing you say here matters to them, they dont give a shit. Get it? I do agree with MOST of what you say (just not how you say it), they have dropped the ball alot lately, and the future for them looks like more of the same. Endlessly bashing wont change anything, since you love the Palm OS so much, why sont you take some time and get it working, millions of others dont have a problem with it, including me. For someone who has owned so many Palm OS devices, you sure seem like a rookie to me.

You sir, are a waste of skin. I do hope you grow out of your narrow corner and join the rest of us in adulthood someday. Until then, I suggest you do as you stated yourself and vote with your wallet and buy something else. A suggestion I have made before by the way.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
ThunderCracker @ 12/17/2006 12:26:27 AM # Q
Retro,

It is fascinating to consider your comments. I find the following most telling.

1.) It was you, not TVOR who started with the personal attacks today.

2.) I agree that the distain that Palm's senior management has on it's users is very evident in the way they don't care what we think. That is Palm's biggest problem. And what does that make us? Suckers. We are eating it big time watching a platform that had such promise getting smoked by what were inferior platforms.

Oh, and to respond to your eariler post about that praiseworthy things Palm has done in the last year.

1. you didn't answer the question. But then you couldn't because the answer is, of course, nothing. This year has not been a success for Palm. Look at thier releases:

Treo 700w - A device that forced palm to admit that they couldn't get the latest features on a Palm OS phone.

Treo 700p - A device that had the memory fixes that the 650 shold have had, but also added more lag.

Treo 700wx - A device that told us all that Palm can't even release a Windows mobile phone 700w without screwing it up somehow.

Treo 680p - A device that told us how long Palm needed in order to figure out that you can build in an internal antenna while simultanouesly shortening battery life. Answer 3 years.

In the same calendar year, Microsoft has perfected thier push email technology and released major new devices in new kinds of platforms, Nokia has created a solid alternative to the Blackberry, and RIM has figured out how to expand it's product line to do multimedia.

In fact, we can expand this question, as I origionally meant it to read. What praiseworthy thing has Palm done in the 3 years?

As far as the competetion, What praytell is Palm's answer to the Blackjack or the Q? What is Palm's answer to the BB Pearl? What is Palm's PalmOS answer to 3g? What is there that palm is the best platform for?

The bottom line is that Palm has three choices: Lead, Follow or get out of the way. Right now, palm is having chioce # 3 enforced on them, not by choice, but by sheer unwillingness to make a choice.

That is where we come in. We can save Palm's Soul. We, the honored audience for all things Palm, can help them, if only they would listen. Sastify us, and they will win.



Palm III --> Compaq Areo 1550 --> Palm IIIc --> Visor Edge --> Casio EM500 --> Sony T415 --> Compaq 3670 --> Dell Axim x5 Advanced --> Sony SJ20 --> Palm T|E --> HP H1945/T610 --> Dell Axim X30 --> Axim X50v --> Treo 600 --> Palm T|X --> Blackberry 6230 --> Treo 650 --> Blackberry 7100t --> BB 7290 --> Samsung Blackjack

RE: I vote to ban whatever I don't like
twrock @ 12/17/2006 1:46:48 AM # Q
That is where we come in. We can save Palm's Soul. We, the honored audience for all things Palm, can help them, if only they would listen. Sastify us, and they will win.

Are you convinced that is really true? (I am asking an honest question here.)

I consider myself a mid- to low-end power user of computers and PDAs. I have a particular set of "wants" and "needs", but I'm not completely convinced that I represent a large enough segment of the population to be the target for the R&D department at Palm.

I put Linux on my brand new home computer three months ago because I figured it was time to put my "money" (none in this case) where my mouth was and get off the MS treadmill. It took me many evenings and weekends to really get things to work as I wanted them to. I mention that only to show that I am not the average computer user. The average computer user is simply not going to make that kind of commitment to learning how to make a new OS work for them. I'm the kind of PDA user who will bother to show up at this forum and voice my opinion. That in and of itself makes me "not average."

So who's Palm trying to market to? Me, or someone else? I'm not completely convinced that Palm can win by satisfying me, and I'm not completely convinced they can win by satisfying you either. But, I have been wrong before.......

Just trying to be honest here, not pick a fight.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
ChiA @ 12/17/2006 6:26:45 AM # Q
I'm not completely convinced that I represent a large enough segment of the population to be the target for the R&D department at Palm.

If it takes 3 years of Palm's R&D department to double the memory and place the antenna inside a cellphone then I'm grateful they're not working in any other industry; otherwise we would all still be driving Model Ts, watching black and white TV and flying around in wooden bi-planes!

Most people are interested in ordinary phones and not smartphones. By ignoring the power users, the ones who do give a damn which OS runs on their device, Palm's currently ignoring the very segment that takes the greatest interest and has the greatest devotion to its products. All fine and dandy, they're the ones running the company but I'm glad I'm not a Palm shareholder!

I don't see any effort by Palm in the UK to advertise the 680 to the mass market: no TV ads, no ads in the street, no ads in the papers, no 680s in the shops. The only place I've seen ads for the 680 are on PDA/smartphone websites - now isn't that still preaching to the choir?

Don't underestimate the readers
freakout @ 12/17/2006 6:43:09 AM # Q
Stonemirror:
Since it seems that a plurality of folks here can't distinguish fair commentary from foul, the people who might have something concrete to say have universally chosen to stay away--as I'll be continuing to do once I post this.

That's a shame. I personally get a kick out of being annoyingly positive about things around here, just to disrupt the tide of negativity. It's fun. You should do it more often. Or maybe I should get out more...

Ryan's only an email away if something personal gets posted, and I agree that any such content should be immediately deleted. But you should also know that while TVoR is a font of (usually) negative criticism, people are smart enough to recognize him/her/them/it as just one very strong opinion with an obvious personal bias. I'd wager there are plenty of lurkers who can't be bothered posting but love reading this site for the different opinions that get posted. I used to be one of them. (those were the days!)

I mean, there's this one columnist in the paper, Piers Akerman. I loathe the fat bastard and all his arrogant, superior, extreme-right-wing views. I still read what he says because it's good to challenge your own views on things. And he has an evil sense of humour that sometimes makes me laugh out loud. But I sure as hell don't agree with what he has to say.

What I'm trying to say is that people don't always believe what they read, and saying that we can't distinguish "fair commentary from foul" is a bit insulting to the readership. We appreciate a diversity of opinion, even if it can get a bit toxic here sometimes. That's the internets for ya.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
freakout @ 12/17/2006 7:18:24 AM # Q
I don't see any effort by Palm in the UK to advertise the 680 to the mass market: no TV ads, no ads in the street, no ads in the papers, no 680s in the shops. The only place I've seen ads for the 680 are on PDA/smartphone websites - now isn't that still preaching to the choir?

Palm have limited resources, and have chosen to promote the 750v over the 680 in Europe. We'll find out whether that was a wise decision or not in another few days after the Q2FY07 Results...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
SeldomVisitor @ 12/17/2006 9:02:56 AM # Q
I've seen next to no comments about 750v advertising on any message boards - are they indeed heavily advertising it?

[earnings are released Tuesday - in recent history PALM has discussed Europe sell-in (that is, PALM's sales to, for example, carriers). We can hope they note the all-important sell-through this time (that is, carriers' sales to end-customers)]

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
stonemirror @ 12/17/2006 9:40:11 AM # Q
freakout says, "...people don't always believe what they read..."

No doubt. But when (to give just one example) a pointer to a picture of me and my daughter is posted, and she's treated as a subject for comments of a gross and graphic nature, my concern isn't whether people believe those comments. "Emailing Ryan" is not going to result in a response I'll find satisfactory; the damage has already been done. Similarly with the endless blatant attempts at character assassination via Google-bombing: Google never forgets, eh?

"We appreciate a diversity of opinion..."

A diversity of opinion about people's home addresses, their sexual orientations and histories, and whether they're having incestuous relations with their children...?

Sorry, but that sort of thing, especially when viewed as representing some sort of "opinion" worth airing, excusing, or even tolerating, isn't much of a draw for me, and I'm not the only one who's made that sort of assessment.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
retrospooty @ 12/17/2006 10:56:02 AM # Q
"It was you, not TVOR who started with the personal attacks today."

NO, not really, if you wanna read it back, I was replying to someone else's call to ban him. I was against banning, and said (with a smiley indicating a joke) that I do wish he would STFU and mentioned his anger issues... I stand behind that, and I submit 80% of his posts here at PIC as proof. Nuff said.

"Oh, and to respond to your eariler post about that praiseworthy things Palm has done in the last year you didn't answer the question."

What are you even talking about? I did respond specifically to that, I even quoted you in my response. "They did release 4 smartphones this year, you may not like them, but they did it, and I personally love mine." You may totally disagree with calling any of it "praiseworthy". But 4 releases in a year is an accomplishment.

If you think its so easy to innovate in this field, I ask again, show me a smartphone that has not had flaws or lacked some features that others have? Show me this wonderful device, I would seriously love to buy one.

What would you buy today if you were buying a smartphone? I realize and agree Palm has stumbled alot lately, but who is doing it better? Where are these devices that blow Palm out of the water, and if they are soooo great, why are we all still here at PIC whining about Palm?

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
SeldomVisitor @ 12/17/2006 11:08:28 AM # Q
> ...I realize and agree Palm has stumbled alot lately, but who
> is doing it better?...

Everyone. And way cheaper, too.

> ...Where are these devices that blow Palm out of the water...

They're everywhere - in fact, they're on the home pages of Cingular, Verizon Wireless,, and T-Mobile minimally in a highly visible manner - go check.

> ...and if they are soooo great, why are we all still here at PIC
> whining about Palm?

Inertia.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
retrospooty @ 12/17/2006 2:46:38 PM # Q
"...and if they are soooo great, why are we all still here at PIC
whining about Palm?

Inertia."

LOL... Good one but your answers of "everyone" and "everywhere" are not really to the point. Yes there are many new smartphones out there, with many good and bad points. What device is head and shoulders above a treo?

Motorola with the Q? NOT! Its slim, but awkward and is lacks features.

Backberry w/ Pearl? It is a good phone, but small screen (granted some like that) and most power users agree the OS is lacking. Overall a good device, but it hardly blows the Treo's away.

HTC's plethera of devices? All have great feature set, but nothing really stands out as a clear winner. If you need Wifi, there it is, but with EVDO or UMTS (depending on your carrier) Wifi is useless for 99.9% of the users out there (in spite of the very vocal few on forums such as this).

Nokia? I am not too famliar with thier models ... They cant be that good. IF they are please enlighten me as to why?

If you like Win Mobile (and I seriously do not!), these HTC, and a few others phones are cool, but like I said, nothing realy special. some are better than Treo's spec wise, but nothng that blows us all away.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
freakout @ 12/17/2006 3:27:36 PM # Q
SeldomVisitor:
I've seen next to no comments about 750v advertising on any message boards - are they indeed heavily advertising it?

http://tinyurl.com/y2wlqz

Stonemirror:
A diversity of opinion about people's home addresses, their sexual orientations and histories, and whether they're having incestuous relations with their children...?

Sorry, but that sort of thing, especially when viewed as representing some sort of "opinion" worth airing, excusing, or even tolerating, isn't much of a draw for me, and I'm not the only one who's made that sort of assessment.

No. When the postings around here get like that I have a tendency to just keep rolling the scroll wheel, because it's not what I'm really interested in. I think some more stern moderating might be appropriate, and indeed I've noticed some of the more flagrant "personal attack" content has been deleted lately.

But anyways, I can understand packing up your marbles and leaving. Sometimes people just push you way too far. But if you ever need a hug, freakout is here, in all his handsome, toned, sun-dappled glory...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

retrospooty's selective amnesia; David Schlesinger's outrage.YAWN
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/17/2006 4:39:13 PM # Q
"It was you, not TVOR who started with the personal attacks today."

NO, not really, if you wanna read it back, I was replying to someone else's call to ban him. I was against banning, and said (with a smiley indicating a joke) that I do wish he would STFU and mentioned his anger issues... I stand behind that, and I submit 80% of his posts here at PIC as proof. Nuff said.

Golly gee whiz, retrospooty. Does your comment below count as a "personal attack"?

"You sir, are a waste of skin. I do hope you grow out of your narrow corner and join the rest of us in adulthood someday. Until then, I suggest you do as you stated yourself and vote with your wallet and buy something else. A suggestion I have made before by the way."

Interesting to see PalmSource's David Schlesinger STILL here, posting (as usual) off-topic tripe. Here's a suggestion, Mr.Schlesinger: if you have some HONEST information you'd like to share about PalmOS/ALP-OS/PalmSource/Access, go right ahead and post it. If you have nothing to say about those topics perhaps you should simply get back to work trying to get ALP-OS back on track now that it's already been derailed. If your Japanese masters has any sense they would have spent several million dollars hiring some brighter codemonkeys that would enable them to meet their deadlines.

Ki o tsukete

TVoR-san

P.S. I hope you're still trying to learn how to speak Japanese. Eventually you might stop butchering the language... I will pray for you at the temple.

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/17/2006 5:00:10 PM # Q
But anyways, I can understand packing up your marbles and leaving.

How can one pack up what one had lost a long, LONG time go in a tragic CONSPIRACY?

Sometimes people just push you way too far.

And then you snap. Ever seen a PalmSource manager go postal? Kinda like a poodle on amphetamines. Sad, yet funny. In a W T F kind of way...

But if you ever need a hug, freakout is here, in all his handsome, toned, sun-dappled glory...

You might regret making that offer when a certain someone cops a feel*.

TVoR


*Timmmmmay got fingered

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
retrospooty @ 12/17/2006 10:21:59 PM # Q
"Golly gee whiz, retrospooty. Does your comment below count as a "personal attack"?"

Uh... If you want to check the timestamps you will see that that comment was later, after your "Ask a grown-up or someone smarter than you (most people?) " comment to me.

Anyhow, I am done for now, see you on the next palm bashing post. I hope it is fulfilling for you. :P

RE: I vote to ban obnoxious comments by TVoR
stonemirror @ 12/19/2006 10:11:33 PM # Q
How fascinating to see preposterous whining about "off-topic tripe" on the one hand, followed almost immediately by things like fabricated (and tediously, pointlessly, inanely, predictably abusive) "memorable quotes" on the other.

"Mr. Kettle! There's a Mr. Pot on the line for you..."

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