palmOne Responds to Flash Memory Issue

Posted By: Ryan Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:11:40 AM

palmOne has released a statement regarding the NVFS Flash memory predicament. In short, the company acknowledges the situation and says they will work on a update solution for the Tungsten T5 and Treo 650 to recapture memory-space and will offer a free 128MB SD card upon request.

palmOne released this official statement below to the media. The statement comes swiftly in direct response to the recent controversy regarding memory space and how the NVFS RAM system takes up more room than standard memory. The full statement reads:

palmOne implemented a non-volatile file system (NVFS) in the new Treo 650 because of the strong benefits it provides: preserving data and applications if the battery runs down, and the ability to change the battery on the fly. The tradeoff for these benefits is that the NVFS uses additional overhead, which results in records on the Treo 600 taking up more space when transferred to the Treo 650.

We believe there is ample memory in the Treo 650 for new users to store their contact and appointment information as well as email and other applications. We do recognize, however, that there is a small percentage of Treo 600 owners who have almost filled the memory on their device, and they will likely have a problem upgrading to the Treo 650 because of the reduced effective memory size in the new file system. Fortunately, there is a relatively straightforward solution: Treo 600 owners can move applications and files to an SD card before beginning migration to a Treo 650. This should make the upgrade process go more smoothly.

We understand that this is not an optimal solution for our power users, and palmOne is committed to providing a great experience for all our users. Therefore, we will work to improve the user experience by doing the following:

- work on a system software (ROM) upgrade that will increase memory use efficiency to allow users to recapture most of the NVFS overhead space currently lost to them; and

- make available a free 128MB SD expansion card to Treo 650 purchasers on request to help with memory management until the ROM upgrade becomes available . (Details on this program will be posted on the support site in early December.)

To ensure that Treo upgraders take best advantage of SD expansion cards to save data and applications, palmOne will post additional tips on its Customer Support site. Last month the company released a Software Developer Kit to help software developers take full advantage of the Treo 650 and the Tungsten T5, including memory optimization. More information on upgrading to the Treo 650 is available in this knowledge base article.

palmOne is committed to providing a great user experience. We will work hard to make the upgrade experience better.

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Good move

treo007 @ 11/25/2004 3:29:19 AM #
They definately screwed up, but seldom have a seen a corporation admit it this quickly and try to fix it.

RE: Good move
robman @ 11/25/2004 5:33:00 AM #
I will say this, the issue does not seem like one that would arise readily in product testing so I am not surprised that customers would find out about before PalmOne.

I also think PIC is party responsible for the fast response! Good work, everyone!

Palm Enthusiast since 1998

RE: Good move
Wolfgard @ 11/25/2004 5:40:07 AM #
This proves that P1 is depending on the success of the Treo650 to keep it alive. That's why they responded to the problem so quickly so it doesn't affect the Treo's sales. I guess we know where P1 stands now.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55
RE: Good move
JonathanChoo @ 11/25/2004 7:08:54 AM #
Personally I think its a non issue but regardless its nice seeing palmOne doing something for its power users.
RE: Good move
Strider_mt2k @ 11/25/2004 7:12:36 AM #
Agreed.
'fessing up and helping to fix the problem is a good thing!
Offering some memory cards should help the situation on a practical level, and a little make-up gift doesn't hurt.

I hope they can work this out to everyone's satisfaction.



RE: Good move
ChippyAft @ 11/25/2004 7:55:08 AM #
Great. Perhaps they could now respond to why they are selling a plastic Tungsten E2 for $400 and calling it a flagship model?

RE: Good move
4s @ 11/25/2004 8:04:33 AM #
I hardly think the T5 is PalmOne's flagship model. I received a catalog from them in the mail yesterday that had a 6" by 3" picture of the Treo 650 on the front and a 2" by 2" picture of the T5. I think that about sums it up.

<><
RE: Good move
kpr @ 11/25/2004 8:05:36 AM #
"Great. Perhaps they could now respond to why they are selling a plastic Tungsten E2 for $400 and calling it a flagship model?"

Yeah. And then start shipping the real flagship T5 we have all been waiting for with:
- Wi-Fi (and Bluetooth)
- 128MB RAM
- better compatibility with 3rd party software
- instantaneous global finds
- no user interface glitches
- front facing speaker
- vibrating alarm
- LED charging status and alarm indicator
- microphone and voice record button
- quick clock access when off
- better alarm sound choices
- fast resets like T3 and TC
- retain Flash memory on hard resets and make it faster
- include the cradle
- keep the universal connector

all wrapped in a beautiful rugged metal case.

RE: Good move
JonathanChoo @ 11/25/2004 8:08:20 AM #
Once the Treo 650 comes to the UK, it would easily cost double the T5's price. How can you call T5 flagship then?
RE: Good move
ChippyAft @ 11/25/2004 9:06:54 AM #
I'm certainly not calling it a flagship model - hence my post. But by naming it the 'Tungsten T5', and charging $400, I think it's clear that Palm are positioning it as their flagship PDA.

(The Treo line is a different market sector.)

RE: Good move
Gekko @ 11/25/2004 9:25:10 AM #

Choo - you are one of the biggest Palm apologists on this forum and I find your intellectual dishonesty disgusting.



RE: Good move
TooMuch @ 11/25/2004 9:39:38 AM #
"Wolfgard @ 11/25/2004 5:40:07 AM
This proves that P1 is depending on the success of the Treo650 to keep it alive. That's why they responded to the problem so quickly so it doesn't affect the Treo's sales. I guess we know where P1 stands now."

And the "Too Much Award" goes to...Wolfgard. Just following the above rationale one could also conclude...

"Since P1 responded in just a couple of days to this problem in order to survive Treo sales and thus P1 itself, thus we can conclude that since Wolfgard responded to P1's announcement in just a couple of HOURS therefore this shows that Wolfgard hopes to retain what remaining little bit of common sense such ridiculous reasoning depletes from the brain. I guess we know where Wolfgard stands now."

Now Wolfgard; let's not start another episode of P1 "cliff diving."

TooMuch :)

RE: Good move
vesther @ 11/25/2004 10:20:14 AM #
Looks like palmOne listened--I hope palmOne will be listening to their power users (Like I said before, I faxed them a letter of concern to their corporate office) for their next effort, and hopefully, will create a better handheld for their power user segment.

I think the Power User Handheld's likely to be a Zire, but maybe Tungsten, depending on the nature of the handheld.

But for now, palmOne is glad they have listened to the controversy of the NVFS.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: Good move
Wolfgard @ 11/25/2004 10:45:09 AM #
Hope they fix this or revert back to RAM for their next PDA phone. I'm starting to look for replacements for my current phone and maybe switching around mid next year. As of now, the Sony Ericsson p910 still looks like better phone than the Treo650.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55
RE: Good move
JonathanChoo @ 11/25/2004 11:07:47 AM #
Me a Palm apologist? No, I just do my research first before posting.
RE: Good move
batmon @ 11/25/2004 11:42:56 AM #
Check out Palmone site... every Palm PDA you purcahse will get a free 128MB SD card anyway. They are trying to use promotion item as a "fix"... What a deal.

RE: Good move
SeldomVisitor @ 11/25/2004 12:00:36 PM #
Now THAT'S funny - you are too right!

Wonder if THAT will hit the Me-Too Media!?

Lol!

Whatta game!

RE: Good move
Patrick @ 11/25/2004 12:39:28 PM #
Well, to date I've heard absolutely zero talk on the Treo boards of people getting a 128 MB card with their 650's. This tells me that the promotion that is now in effect was NOT in effect for the original Treo 650 purchases. So at the very least, this is something additional FOR THEM.

What is it about this 128 MB card that people are so upset about? It has been widely known that the 60 has 23 MB of usable memory and certainly everyone who bought one knew it in advance. What people did not know in advance was the 30% premium that data and applications demanded. Palm is working to fix this. In the mean time they're offering this card. Why the heck do folks see that as a bad thing? It boggles the mind.

And before you flame me for being a so-called "apologist" (what a handy label that is), I absolutely agree that the 650 should have had more memory in the first place. But for that there is also a strategy you can adopt to get around the problem: don't buy it.

RE: Good move
TooMuch @ 11/25/2004 5:17:41 PM #
"...What is it about this 128 MB card that people are so upset about?..."

Patrick, it's not about the 128 card. It's about trying to see who can whine the most.

RE: Good move
Admin @ 11/26/2004 11:42:13 AM #
I personally think this is a great and swift move. Does anyone recall how long it took for palm to admit up to the m505 SUDS issues and the m130 color count? This is a record turnaround.
-Ryan
RE: Good move
Gekko @ 11/26/2004 11:50:05 AM #
>"I personally think this is a great and swift move. Does anyone recall how long it took for palm to admit up to the m505 SUDS issues and the m130 color count?"

1. GREAT move?
a. P1 is already giving away 128MB Cards for FREE with TE's.
b. An SD Card is NO SUBSTITUTE for REAL RAM. Adding a hard drive to a PC does not increase its System RAM.
c. 128MB SD Cards can be had for $10.
d. I seriously doubt that P1 will be able to offer a REAL fix to this due to architectural/manufacturing/design issues.

2. Palm had to get SUED first before they "fixed" the m505 SUDS and m130 color count issues.

Mark my words: We're in for some more "surprises" with the T5/T650!



RE: Good move
Patrick @ 11/26/2004 4:25:36 PM #
I agree, this is a good move by P1. They made mistakes in not doing enough testing before releasing the 650, but we're here now. I don't know what more you could ask of them in terms of a response.

I don't think it can be more obvious that P1 doesn't consider the SD card to be a substitute for more RAM, hence their words ... "to help with memory management until the ROM upgrade becomes available".

Until they actually come up with a fix, predicting it will be a failure seems rather pointless. It may be, but I think there ought to be a number of avenues for them to try. A logical sector size of, say, 64 bytes ought to cut the memory premium down considerably, if that solution turns out to be feasible.

RE: Good move
Gekko @ 11/26/2004 4:46:18 PM #

Free 128MB Memory Card with Zire 72 handheld!
Free 128MB Memory Card with Tungsten C handheld!
Free 128MB Memory Card with Tungsten E handheld!

http://store.palmone.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1438326



RE: Good move
LiveFaith @ 11/27/2004 11:01:10 AM #
This is one of the strongest and most decisive corrections that I can ever remember from a tech company. Pretty impressive in my book.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Good move
Gekko @ 11/27/2004 11:06:24 AM #

Pat - please post a link for the picture of your SuperTreo! Search is down on PIC and I can't friggin find your pic!

THANKS!



RE: Good move
RhinoSteve @ 11/29/2004 4:41:49 PM #
Frankly, it is a good response. However, this is mostly a stick-a-pacifier-in-the-crying-baby move that will keep you techies quite for a while 'til you find something else to moan about.

SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM

Gekko @ 11/25/2004 9:11:43 AM #

Re: The "Fix":

1. Companies don't do things to be nice. They do things BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO.

2. A 128MB SD Card and a promise of a ROM fix would not be good enough for me. This NVFS RAM was a bad idea.

Do it right from the BEGINNING. Do it right the FIRST TIME. Don't rely on your customers to BETA TEST your products.

Is Palm trying to sell a PREMIUM-PRICED device to AVERAGE JOES? Bad strategy. AVERAGE JOE LIKES CHEAP-PRICED. And nobody wants PREMIUM-PRICED with SKIMPY-SPECS. Customers are not fools. Deliver value or DIE.



RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
TooMuch @ 11/25/2004 9:58:15 AM #
"TOO MUCH!"

Gekko, are you a performer with "Cirque du Soleil?"



RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
Wolfgard @ 11/25/2004 10:48:52 AM #
I kinda agree with Gekko on this point. They should've beta tested this device (and the T5) more in depth before launching it. I hate it when developers do the 'release first, then patch' routine.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55
RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
TooMuch @ 11/25/2004 11:08:15 AM #
It's not that I disagree with obvious errors. It is the constant diahrea of baloney many wrap the complaints in that call for the humor.

Wow...
orb2069 @ 11/25/2004 11:50:38 AM #
Half the board is complaining about how this unit should have been tested longer....

And the other half is saying that there aren't enough features, or that this unit should have been released even earlier.

Does this mean they got it right? (Under the 'A good compromise is one that leaves all parties equally dissatisfied' guideline.)

1000->Personal->IRUpgrade->TRGPro->HE330->Treo 180

RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
dsaroff @ 11/25/2004 2:16:09 PM #
Gekko--

After reading your posts, I HAVE to wonder if anything Palm1 does could satisfy you?

I like my Palm, but I also recognize it has short comings.

Do you ACTUALLY see anything good in Palm1 or are you simply a PPC bigot? Frankly, if your comments, even negative, were constructive, I would support your position. But you tend to provide ad hominem attacks.

Honest question:

WHY do you visit these boards if you HATE all things Palm. Why don't you simply leave us ignorant Palmist to wallow in our mistaken perceptions until PPC wins over the world.

Seriously. I don't go to PPC web sites to lambast those users and their products. I'm interested in Palm, I prefer Palm, but I am not going to trash PPC users. Those actions provide me with no benefit. I simply want to support my community, so I may have a better experience.

Please, could you provide answers to my questions in an impersonal manner. I'm genuinely curious.

I will thank you in advance for a direct reply.

RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
Kesh @ 11/25/2004 4:17:32 PM #
Gekko's a troll. He only comes here to rant and get people riled up. It's quite sad.

RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
Gekko @ 11/25/2004 4:20:31 PM #

dsaroff - why must you and others be so DENSE????? Why must I explain the OBVIOUS????????????????????????????????

I have bought a Palm III, V, m505, m515, T1, and T3. Each time was an UPGRADE and I was very satisfied with each new product. I have a lot of time and money invested in the Palm platform.

Now I have my T3 and am looking for my next upgrade - and what does Palm give me????? A BULLSHIIT T5 and a BULLSHIIT TREO 650.

IS THAT FRIGGIN CLEAR ENOUGH FOR ALL OF THE IMBECILES THAT WANT TO ATTACK MY CRITICISMS??????????????????????????????? I CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT - AND WHEN I SEE A GOOD QUALITY/VALUE PRODUCT I WILL TELL YOU BUT WHEN I SEE BULLSHIIIT AND GARBAGE I WILL BIITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU DENSE, DUMB, BLIND, HEAD-BURIED-IN-THE-SAND PALM-CAN-DO-NO-WRONG PALM APOLOGISTS????????????????????

STOP QUESTIONING MY MOTIVES AND START QUESTIONING THE BULLSHIIT MOVES OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THESE PALM COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE TAKING THIS PLATFORM RIGHT DOWN THE SHIIITTTER!!!!!!!

RE: SD card does not replace missing LOVE
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/25/2004 4:48:44 PM #
Ahem.

Alllllllllllllriiiiiiiiighty then.

[stepping back slowly from the rabid space creature while reaching for my flamethrower]



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
TooMuch @ 11/25/2004 5:21:08 PM #
Gekko is likely a paid troll. His latest defense that he has many Palm OS products means absolutely nothing. Everyone knows that competing ventures buy each others products for review and dissection. Truly. There are those people who can be paid for the # of contacts they make in a day...just like certain sales industries pay by commission and contacts. Gekko is likely making a fine living. The lizard is well known on several Palm OS discussion boards and frequents them all daily. Do a Google search on him for some fun. :)

RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
Gekko @ 11/25/2004 5:59:09 PM #

TooMuch - You know your business. I know mine. Your business is being an a$$hole. Why don't you post something interesting rather than constantly judge my comments, jackaass. You bring nothing to the table.


RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
Zippy @ 11/25/2004 6:33:51 PM #
IS THAT FRIGGIN CLEAR ENOUGH FOR ALL OF THE IMBECILES THAT WANT TO ATTACK MY CRITICISMS??????????????????????????????? I CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT - AND WHEN I SEE A GOOD QUALITY/VALUE PRODUCT I WILL TELL YOU BUT WHEN I SEE BULLSHIIIT AND GARBAGE I WILL BIITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny, when I saw the T5 I saw a good quality/value product and ran to the store to buy. Now I am happy and I actually think it's the best palm product to date. Am I allowed to voice this opinion, BTW?

DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU DENSE, DUMB, BLIND, HEAD-BURIED-IN-THE-SAND PALM-CAN-DO-NO-WRONG PALM APOLOGISTS????????????????????

There are alot of things that Palm has done wrong IMO. The T5 is finally a right move and makes up for alot of the wrongs they have done like trying to imitate PPC and pack too much useless crap in PDA.

STOP QUESTIONING MY MOTIVES AND START QUESTIONING THE BULLSHIIT MOVES OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THESE PALM COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE TAKING THIS PLATFORM RIGHT DOWN THE SHIIITTTER!!!!!!!

Man, the T5 was a move in the right direction. As a business user I do not want a unit full of features on it that work badly or that are not really usefull. This is the first unit since the Palm Vx that has really appealed to me. Finally Palm is getting right!

Please note that the above opinions are sticktly my own and I sincerely apologize if I have offended all you freakin' whiners out there.


RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
TooMuch @ 11/25/2004 7:16:32 PM #
Gekko you have lost all control. Seldom do I make my posts of criticism. However, your recent abuse on forums has brought me out to talk rather than read for information. Occasionally I show up to acquire useful information on Palm OS forums to gain insight for purchasing, etc. However, when people see relentless attacks on people and products that don't serve much of anything but selfishness many of us get to a point where "enough is enough". Thus we speak up to remind us that reality still exists. I've been reading this forum for long time and have never encounter such reckless, abusive and non-sense attacking as you have been posting recently. I only hope you will stop it so that we can get on with discussing Palm OS rather having to read you cussing out everyone and P1 all the time.

Now I move on to reading useful threads in hopes that I don't have hear any more useless cussing rants.

RE: SD Card Does Not Replace Missing System RAM
svrontis @ 11/25/2004 7:21:53 PM #
Zippy, I'm with you. But they need to make these things lighter and thinner - the 'shirt pocket test' is very important.

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