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webOS Hurricane Tablet on Track for 2011?

Rumor: As has been gossiped since HP hit the Palm scene, new reports this week are adding even more credence to the webOS tablet drumbeat. Engadget is reporting that during an all-hands internal employee meeting this past Monday, HP Personal Systems Group VP Todd Bradley (and former Palm CEO) confirmed and disclosed a few small details about such a project.

Mr. Bradley reportedly remarked that the mythical webOS tablet is indeed in the works and is known internally under the code name "Hurricane" as has oft been whispered and even strongly hinted at via the PalmPad trademark filling. Furthermore, Engadget also claims in their article that the device is on track for a Q1 2011 release target.

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Too late?

mikecane @ 8/11/2010 11:57:26 AM # Q
That's my initial impression. However, maybe the Tegra2 chip will slip some more and put all those prototyped Android competitors further behind schedule.

What could kill this altogether is a 7" iPad.

It will be interesting to see how hard Google pushes "previews" and "leaks" of Android 3.0 to try to prevent people from wanting a webOS tablet at all. The old Microsoft trick.

RE: Too late?
linds @ 8/11/2010 12:02:25 PM # Q
Mike, What products did Microsoft doe their old trick on?
RE: Too late?
LiveFaith @ 8/11/2010 12:20:26 PM # Q
Windows ME and Vista come instantly to mind. M$ actually kept those hidden in order to keep customers. :-Pat Horne
RE: Too late?
Gekko @ 8/11/2010 2:12:28 PM # M Q

They'll sell dozens of them!!!
RE: Too late?
mikecane @ 8/11/2010 4:59:29 PM # Q
>>>Mike, What products did Microsoft doe their old trick on?

Pen-based computing. Go hunt down a book called Start-up: Silicon Valley Venture Story by Jerry Kaplan. It shows how MS pre-announced things they really hadn't even begun to work on at all in order to pre-empt competitors. Google, at least, actually is working on an Android 3, but who knows how far away its completion is or what hardware it requires? Glitzy demos would be their tool. The same kind of glitzy demos Palm itself used to intro the not-quite-ready Palm Pre and webOS. Ha! It's an old tech trick everyone learned from IBM!

Hell, Apple used something like this back in the 1980s (post-Jobs). I was in a job where I told them Apple was bringing a solution we needed (I forget what it was; this was during the OpenDoc and stuff phase). I eventually left that job and the damn Apple solution was eventually killed!

RE: Too late?
rcartwright @ 8/11/2010 7:52:10 PM # Q
Mike,

You might well be right about it being too late but consider this. CES rolls around and Palm unveils Web OS 2, on a phone and a pad that is screaming fast with apps out of the box such as Docs to Go, Kindle and Nook reader software and Audible. Throw in some USB and perhaps even frontfacing camera and Facetime and address every grumble that anyone has with iOS4. (cough, Flash) Bring it in below the Apple price points and....wait for it... on sale today at Best Buy, etc. Maybe give Sprint a month of excluslivity for loyality's sake but go guns on ATT and T-Mob. They catch Apple before the iPad 2 is announced and throw ATT a lifeline when Apple hits Verizon (which contrary to general opinion I think could be the iPhone's Waterloo.) The key is shipping game changing product with at least the key apps and surfing the wave of good press. Palm squandered that with the late to market and too long exclusivity with Sprint.

I think Palm might have one more chance to be a player, especally considering how lame Blackberry continues to be. Android is fragmenting in the sense there is no "Android experence" They are becoming like GM, in the 70s, tons of different products that do the job for the most part, but your Caddie might have an Chevy engine. If Palm can ship outstading product, they can distingush themselves yet again and this time make some coin.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Too late?
nastebu @ 8/11/2010 11:19:04 PM # Q
rcartwright wrote:
You might well be right about it being too late but consider this. CES rolls around and Palm unveils Web OS 2, on a phone and a pad that is screaming fast with apps out of the box such as Docs to Go, Kindle and Nook reader software and Audible. Throw in some USB and perhaps even frontfacing camera and Facetime and address every grumble that anyone has with iOS4. (cough, Flash) Bring it in below the Apple price points and....wait for it... on sale today at Best Buy, etc. Maybe give Sprint a month of excluslivity for loyality's sake but go guns on ATT and T-Mob. They catch Apple before the iPad 2 is announced and throw ATT a lifeline when Apple hits Verizon (which contrary to general opinion I think could be the iPhone's Waterloo.) [...]

Absolutely. And to get there they can close their eyes, tap their ruby slippers together, and repeat "there's no place like market share."

RE: Too late?
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2010 6:56:37 AM # Q
rcartwright does make some valid points. The window is still open.
Pat Horne
RE: Too late?
mikecane @ 8/12/2010 7:13:47 AM # Q
The window only *seems* open *today*. A LOT will happen between now and then. A big fat bloody LOT.
RE: Too late?
richf @ 8/12/2010 12:44:35 PM # Q
Yeah, I agree the window is open. But HP/Palm need to do something quick before someone slams the window shut on their fingers. Looking back, the regulars on here were always pointing out the fact Palm devices always lacked something and maybe just maybe the next latest and greatest Palm would correct this grievous omission. But every time a new Palm appeared, there I was making the pilgrimage to get it before they sold out. And you know the new one just worked with my knowledge of the old one. My point is to not expect a device that will blow iPhone and Android out of the universe. I would just like something that works and is on a level with the iPhone and Android. Graffiti has made me think everyday about activating the Droid but I'm still hanging on with the Pre, hoping and praying.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
RE: Too late?
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2010 1:32:18 PM # Q
Rich,

There is a new sheriff in town I think.

IMO, HP will do more hardware updating, form factors, and generally throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. That's the good. They are also the same company that took over the #1 PDA hardware team of it's day (iPAQ) in a merger and brought it to it's knees.

I am really excited about the next 2 years. HP will basically be paying to bring forth the last vestiges of Palm's underfunded vision while building out from it. After that, I fear the bureaucracy may dissolve Palm (as we knew it) forever.

Good news: WebOS 2 and a code named "Roadrunner" device are starting to show up in web "app logs". With WebOS and the Pre over one year old and October only 2 months out, it's a sure thing. This will almost certainly be Palm device(s) that have been in dev for 12-15 months. HP will put a little corporate lipstick on and that's about all. No way, I would jump platforms right now. We should get some blurrycam action any day now.

http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/08/12/webos-2-0-roadrunner-device-showing-up-in-app-logs/

Here's my expectations for the device(s):
WebOS 2.0 (Best improvements here , especially in APIs)
3.7-4" super hi rez display
Same form factor as Pre
Bigger and better quality keyboard
Glass screen aka that fruit company (I like plastic better tho)
Larger device, but just slightly thinner
Better quality physical hardware
Similar riverstone philosophy
5mp cam + HiDef Vid capture
No real PIM upgrade (Please let me be wrong)
Doc, SS, PP editing (Prob Docs2Go :-( )
1ghz+ main proc clock
Heavy duty gaming graphix silicone
32GB storage (at least as an optional device)
1gb physical memory
No SD expansion
4G running first out on the Now Network (maybe concurrent with another?)

... then I think we'll see a large tablet FF smartphone with VK. Where's Kris when I need him. Probably of at the Android store. :-(
Pat Horne

RE: Too late?
Gekko @ 8/12/2010 2:08:51 PM # Q

and while you fools keep waiting for vaporware - we keep getting more cutting edge features for Android daily.


RE: Too late?
gmayhak @ 8/12/2010 5:31:17 PM # Q
Gekko, seems at one time you wanted to be different from every tom, dick & harry carrying an iPhone but here you are, following every tom, dick & harry lemming, worshiping android. If you want to stand out in the crowd you need be among the few with webOS!

Pat, after using the iPad & iPod Touch I'll never go back to a device with a plastic screen, the difference in perceived quality is a zillion %.

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: Too late?
Gekko @ 8/12/2010 5:38:14 PM # Q

no they are following me.

RE: Too late?
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2010 6:01:50 PM # Q
I'm not sure he's following Tom or Harry tho. :-D

Gary,

I've used my sons Touch and iPhone a lot. I see the point your making, but I would personally choose the Pre's screen b/c of the weight difference. The device seems a lot better in hand than the Apple to me, but that;'s OT.

My son dropped the iPhone once on concrete and screen is broken. I hammered my Pre once on tile and just chipped the corner. I know all drops are not created equal, but that's the other reason I would choose plastic. I'm not saying build quality on a Pre is better than the 3GS btw.

I remember how everyone freaked and moaned when the Palm m100 came out with plastic screen. Palm laid an egg in a lot of ways with that, but that thing was really light and pocketable with a super durable screen.

JMO
Pat Horne

RE: Too late?
gmayhak @ 8/12/2010 6:15:34 PM # Q
>>no they are following me.<<

Over the cliff gekko ?

Pat, I know what you mean, for something I can stuff in my pocket and drop on the ground I use my Centro. If I carry the Touch or iPad I make sure they are in well padded cases.

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

Droid X mini-review
hkklife @ 8/12/2010 6:49:22 PM # Q
I got my Droid X yesterday. While I have been unimaginably busy and haven't even had time for a full session of fiddling & tweaking, I have a few initial observations. Given the lack of new Palm hardware news, I think this might make for an interesting read:


1. Best voice quality I've ever experienced on a smartphone. Possibly the best ever on any wireless phone. Aside from relatively weak ringer/earpiece/speakerphone volume, the call clarity and crispness is just superb. The X's 3 microphones (one used for noise cancellation) really shin here.

2. It seems to be a good bit faster in pulling down data in the same areas where my Droid 1 was kinda sluggish. Streaming videos stream better & web pages render much faster. Can more CPU/RAM make such a difference? I cannot wait until 2.2 gets pushed out to this guy! I have to admit, however, that 2.2 didn't offer much of a performance boost to my Droid 1.

3. Unfortunately, the X also seems more likely to fall back to 1x in fringe areas where all of my past phones (Palm Treos/Centro aside) could hang on to a 3G signal

4. X's battery life is nothing spectacular. It's about on par with my 2.2 FroYo Droid and is worse than the 2.1 and 2.0 Droid. I have an extended battery on the way, thankfully.

5. Graffiti is a DELIGHT on the big screen and with the fast processor. Of course, the increase in screen size makes Graffiti much more usable with a finger...but also makes the onscreen QWERTY portrait keyboard much more usable as well. So far, I've probably been doing 60% qwerty and 40% Graffiti. I don't feel that Swype is as great as everyone says it is.

6. 8GB onboard, 16gb stock and the option of a 32GB card is fantastic. Despite earlier reports that the X would come with a class 4 generic card, mine as well as my boss' came with class 2 Sandisk. Alas. Still, SD card access times are MUCH better than the Droid 1. You cannot imagine how nice it is to have essentially unlimited space internally for installing apps. I was constantly having to shuffle and uninstall apps on the D1 to make room...some of these new Android apps are VERY bloated (3D games, Nook, Kindle, Google Earth etc). Speaking of 3d gaming, some of the latest crop of 3D titles such as Need for Speed and Raging Thunder 2 really make good use of the GPU. Too bad there's no proper way to play these games. I didn't grow up leaning to and fro; I had a joystick or a joypad in my hand and that's still how I like to play!

7.Moto's Blur is a lot better than it was in the past but it's still kinda lame. It doesn't slow the phone down much but just tends to clutter the screen up. Thankfully the widgets can be removed or resized but there's a lot of redundancy bettern the Blur widgets & the stock Google Widgets, not to mention all of the add-on apps.

8 Calendar & contact handling is a smidgen than past versions of Android. Still no Garnet, but nothing is ever going to rival Garnet for PIM. And a few tiny upgrades to Android are better than no upgrades at all. It's just going to suck when I have to relearn someone else's execution of Android if I switch phones.

9. 4.3" with 854x480 is just lovely. I'll probably put in some good e-book reading time on this device. No issues with yellowish tint, bad pixels, or inaccurate colors on this guy. I still like Samsung's Super AMOLED but this screen is absolutely fine by all means.

10. I really prefer the hard buttons instead of the usual touch-sensitive (and overly sensitive!) Android buttons! The power button, side buttons & camera button feel so much better than most other phones I've used lately. Also, the entire phones feels awesome to hold. It doesn't feel "big" at all and slips in and out of a pocket easily. And being coated in soft-touch paint that doesn't peel instead of cheap, shiny, glossy plastic is just icing on the cake. Moto has already understood solid industrial design.

11. Camera quality is fantastic, especially in strong light. Not as good as the iPhone 4 but definitely one of the best phone cameras of all times. LED flash is yellowish and surprisingly effective. It can also be used when video recording.

12. Finally, let me state what a great job Moto did wiping out some of the horrendous shortcomings in stock Android 2.2. GONE is the horrendously buggy & laggy Cooliris Gallery viewer app. Photos now appear LIGHTNING FAST! GONE is the usual Android shortcoming of no voice dial over BT, thaks to Moto and Nuance's implementation. GONE is Android's lack of an equalizer/bass boost function. GONE is the horrible stock Android camera/camcorder app. This thing has more camera features built-in (LED light for video recording, photo effects like sepia/B&W/negative, and a cool panorama stitch) than some cheap P&S digicams!

Overall this is the best Android smartphone I've ever used. I'd take the X's general feel, refinement, speed, and voice quality over the Evo's front cam, kickstand and 4G. But both are awesome phones. I could never go back to anything smaller than a 4" screen now. That said, I am by no means an Android fanboy and will jump ship immediately if HP/Palm come out with something awesome in the next year or so.

P.S. Anyone interested in a gently used Droid 1 with a ton of accessories?
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Too late?
gmayhak @ 8/12/2010 7:00:48 PM # Q
>>Overall this is the best Android smartphone I've ever usedTech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Too late?
gmayhak @ 8/12/2010 7:03:41 PM # Q
I hate that you can't edit posts!

>>Overall this is the best Android smartphone I've ever usedTech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: Too late?
gmayhak @ 8/12/2010 7:05:41 PM # Q
Ok, I'll try 1 more time :-)

"Overall this is the best Android smartphone I've ever used"

Sounds cool Kris, is there a reason you put "Android" in the sentence?

Gary


Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: Too late?
hkklife @ 8/12/2010 7:22:42 PM # Q
Yes. It's without a doubt the best Android device I've used. It has no glaring shortcomings, which is definitely a first for an Android device OUT OF THE BOX!

But best smartphone?

Well, the iPhone has the most seamless experience (UI, ecosystem, 3rd party apps/accessory support) but I hate iTunes, Apple's walled garden & limited hardware choices...and being forced to use AT&T.

The Treo 700p still had the best damn keyboard I've ever used but everything else about it sucked.

The Centro finally got most of the Garnet bugs worked out and it was just so fast, intuitive, and easy...but it was hobbled by dated/cheap hardware, an antiquated OS and the usual small keyboard/screen complaints. If I had the 700p keyboard mated to the Centro's execution of Garnet with some 2010-era hardware improvements, I'd have the perfect smartphone.

Otherwise, it's hard for me to resist the combination of the X's huge, lovely screen and strong voice performance.

P.S. The X is the first non-Apple smartphone aside from the Nexus One where I haven't had to sit around waiting for the screen to rotate because of a sluggish accelerometer. Moto also threw in a couple other nice little touches I forgot to mention earlier such as double tap the home button to launch voice commands, double-tap the screen to silence a ringer, and turn the phone face-down on a desk to put it in vibrate mode.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Too late?
gmayhak @ 8/12/2010 7:38:29 PM # Q
"I had the 700p keyboard mated to the Centro's execution of Garnet with some 2010-era hardware improvements, I'd have the perfect smartphone."

If HP re-built webOS to be compatible with Garnet apps we'd have the old Palm back again and a hell of a lot of developers would jump on board. Otherwise, they'll be trounced by Android & iOS4.

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: Too late?
rcartwright @ 8/12/2010 7:47:07 PM # Q
@Gekko,

When Android set off on the journey to smartphone domination, someone apparently forgot to invite Oracle nee Sun:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/12/oracle-sues-google-over-java-patent-infringement-in-android/

While I don't think this will by any means kill the platform, it sure could slow the train down a bit.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Too late?
rcartwright @ 8/12/2010 8:23:29 PM # Q
@mikecaine

I agree that Palm HP could be derailed at many points. My theory presupposes that Palm will be able to wed its moble chops to HPs deep pockets and hardware knowledge.Something I don't think gets considered enough is that with HP, a new phone or tablet will have far better parts pricing than Palm could ever hope to have. I would not be suprised to find out if the story ever gets written that part of the pricing and shipping issues were the result of OEMs wanting "drop trou and bend over" pricing and terms from Palm. Further, despite @nastebu's ruby slipper sharp analysis, Palm HP seem to be catching some breaks if they can exploit them. First Blackberry seems to be on the way to becoming the bit#h for every despotic government that wants to ruffle through BB users emails while in their country, Saudi, UAE, Signapore, India, etc. That has to have the business community wondering about their emails, and no one buys a Blackberry for the browser experience. Apple might actually have a phone with a problem (at least in the mass experience) and last but not least Android's being on the receiving end of a patent lawsuit over Java code. None of these issues are body blows to BB, Apple or even Google, but they do have the potential to give people who make decisions pause. Finally, Windows Phone 7 will roll about the same time. At this point its looking like a lot of fail out of the gate and could make web os 2.0 look even better by comparison.

I will be the first one to admit there are a ton of "ifs" "buts" and "maybes" in my thinking. In fact, the odds are a. ganist them. But I have to say considering all the near death experiences Palm (and by that I mean web os, smart phones and the "Zen of Palm" not the corporate entity) has survived I would not be suprised to find that God is a palm fan. And Satan has an iPhone :)
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Too late?
jca666us @ 8/14/2010 7:42:14 AM # M Q
Q1 2011 - definitely too late!

It'll go head to head w apple's 2011 iPad device(s).

What will the killer app be? Perhaps the ability to print to hp printers - lol!

Reply to this comment

Here I am ... Rock me like a ..

LiveFaith @ 8/11/2010 12:36:49 PM # Q
Hurricane! Sounds like an interesting device no doubt. But, like the iPad, I still cannot understand the productive need for such a form factor. It's not truly "mobile" by my definition, thus it must be carried as a "portable" device. Do I really want to pick it up and hold a near netbook sized device in order to type out e-mails, blogs or web etc? No.

Since it is not "mobile" (ie. not unobtrusively on my being "24x7") then why would this replace my 1" thin netbook that has drivers for all my peripherals and a gazillion more?

I'm cool with tablets and think they are really neat, especially the elegant operation of the iPad. I just don't personally see the niche for a 3rd device as that important. It's not capable of replacing a Windows/Linux/OSX "netbook" and not mobile like a communicator, so it demands another slot in my life.

For kids and adolescent adults to play games and for nice browsing real estate for the couch or bed, I can see it. Beyond that not so much. A family member just showed me their new iPad in a case with a silicone screen cover flip lid the other day. Nice, but I thot, all of Apple's thin engineering and design goes out the window in order for an add on case to do what all netbooks have inherently.

This should be interesting. HP has the deep pockets to take on a completely new tech paradigm than Palm ever did. Palm always had to play a bit close to the vest with new prods b/c a "Foleo like" disaster could cripple the company. Ironically it did. HP, tho has historically taken a more "throw all the crap against the wall and see what sticks". If the PalmPad crashes and burns, then the phones or netbooks, or printers, or calculators or radar detectors or CB radios running WebOS can get into enough channels to cover the losses.


Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

Fold!

jptx @ 8/12/2010 3:06:19 PM # Q
Someone needs to come up with a pad type device that folds. What if it could be shaped like a long rectangle to be held like a traditional phone handset then foldand join to make a wider scree? Oh yes, and make it durable.
If this idea is new, pay me fairly before you use it!
RE: Fold!
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2010 6:02:32 PM # Q
Yeah.
Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

R.I.P. Android -- it is sooo dead!

mikecane @ 8/13/2010 2:51:53 AM # Q
Read first:

Oracle sues Google over Android and Java
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-20013546-265.html

Second:

Major developer turns attention to Google's Android
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/08/13/major-developer-turns-attention-to-googles-android/

Stick a fork in it, baby. And Google has NO friends after selling out the entire Internet to Verizon!

So webOS has a new lease on life after all.

RE: R.I.P. Android -- it is sooo dead!
gmayhak @ 8/14/2010 7:21:58 PM # Q
Well, when Google looses the lawsuit they'll switch Android to entirely web apps so that'll stick a fork in webOS. WebOS has only one chance to survive, compatibility with the old pims & apps and the weather report isn't saying that hell's freezing over so bye-bye everyone except iOS.
Most of the palm faithful must be playing with their new Droids, iPhones & iPads because comments on this site are as rare as seeing a Pre in the wild!

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: R.I.P. Android -- it is sooo dead!
gmayhak @ 8/15/2010 9:42:05 AM # Q
Look Gekko, the EVO is obsolete! Gonna get one of these?
http://phandroid.com/2010/08/14/verizon-posts-official-shot-of-the-r2d2-droid-2/

one of the comments...
"Owning this phone will become the newest number one way to guarantee you never see a vagina in your lifetime."
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: R.I.P. Android -- it is sooo dead!
mikecane @ 8/16/2010 6:37:24 AM # Q
Hahaha. I said the tagline should be: "For men who don't want women or who want to provide grounds for the divorce of one."
Reply to this comment

Palm Pre Pro?

mikecane @ 8/17/2010 6:27:34 AM # Q
HP is preparing a smartphone slider Palm C40
http://touchscreen-mobile.com/news/hp-is-preparing-a-smartphone-slider-palm-c40/

Very interesting!

RE: Palm Pre Pro?
Gekko @ 8/17/2010 11:14:48 AM # Q

does anyone care anymore? seriously?

RE: Palm Pre Pro?
jms001 @ 8/17/2010 11:43:52 AM # Q
Simply put -- yes some of us definitely care.
RE: Palm Pre Pro?
mikecane @ 8/17/2010 2:58:26 PM # Q
>>>does anyone care anymore? seriously?

As the alternative to iPhone that Android isn't, yes.

RE: Palm Pre Pro?
gmayhak @ 8/17/2010 7:04:07 PM # Q
Here's a guy that has a lot of good arguments for Web OS...
http://1n73r.net/2010/06/11/im-sorry-lifehacker-but-youre-wrong

but they'll get my vote when it's compatible with legacy apps. 30,000+ apps they could include in their catalog, idiots!

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

Reply to this comment

Palm patent application

BaalthazaaR @ 8/18/2010 8:27:16 AM # Q
RE: Palm patent application
hkklife @ 8/18/2010 11:44:41 AM # Q
That has already been debunked, IIRC. I think that patent filing was originally from 2001, so that was probably something that was bandied about prior to the development of the Fooleo 1.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX
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