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MotionApps Classic to Provide Palm OS Compatibility on WebOS

PALM OS Classic WebOS EmulatorAs hinted at earlier today, Palm has just confirmed that Palm OS Garnet support will be coming to the Palm Pre and WebOS. In a press release late today, Palm has announced that MotionApps is creating a emulator application that will allow most Palm OS applications to run on webOS devices. The application, simply called "Classic," will be available for purchase when the Palm Pre becomes available from Sprint in the first half of 2009.

Since Palm OS applications running in Classic won't be able to leverage core webOS functionality, Palm is working with partners to ensure that popular Palm OS applications are made available on the webOS platform and are optimized to take advantage of everything it has to offer. In the meantime, the MotionApps Classic application will allow customers who have invested in the Palm OS platform to use Palm OS applications they've grown to love and depend upon on their new webOS devices.

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Good News!

bhartman34 @ 4/1/2009 5:55:20 PM # Q
Let's hope it's not an April Fool's joke. ;)
RE: Good News!
whiteasianrose @ 4/2/2009 9:37:16 AM # Q
from motionapps website:

Palm also announced that MotionApps (www.motionapps.com) is creating an emulator application that will allow most Palm OS applications to run on webOS devices. The application, called "Classic," will be available for purchase when the Palm Pre™ phone becomes available from Sprint in the first half of 2009, and gives users peace of mind as they transition to Palm's new webOS.

so it will NOT be free.


Reply to this comment

screen

palmit @ 4/1/2009 6:08:43 PM # Q
That screen shot looks wild. Old POS on new Pre device. I like those virtual buttons.
RE: screen
hkklife @ 4/1/2009 6:12:39 PM # Q
Yup, they do look nice but I'd imagine we can abandon all hope to run 320x480 Palm OS apps on the Pre. I still imagine it'll be kinda rough to replace an accurate stylus with a fingertip on some older apps & games.

Still, this is the best way to go about a "solution" like this-farm it out to a 3rd party so Palm & Sprint don't have to bear the burden of support issues. Another question-will Motion be opering under the terms of Palm's perpetual Garnet license or will they have to pay for it themselves? If so, this could be a rather pricey app.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: screen
jca666us @ 4/1/2009 6:30:30 PM # Q
The Pre should come with this app for free.

Not good to nickel and dime loyal POS customers.

RE: screen
bhartman34 @ 4/1/2009 6:39:55 PM # Q
The app will come with the phone, according to CNET:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10209815-94.html?tag=inside


RE: screen
hkklife @ 4/1/2009 8:14:36 PM # Q
"Classic" is an emulator that will ship with WebOS"
(exact wording from the CNET article).

This is typical ambiguous computer industry-speak that likely means "it will be available for purchase at the same that the Pre is released". It may very likely not be included in ROM on the Pre or even for free download (IMHO). Palm's been nickel & diming their loyal customers for at least the past 6-7 years so that's nothing new.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: screen
bhartman34 @ 4/1/2009 9:04:55 PM # Q
"Classic" is an emulator that will ship with WebOS"
(exact wording from the CNET article).

This is typical ambiguous computer industry-speak that likely means "it will be available for purchase at the same that the Pre is released".

That interpretation is inconsistent with a literal reading:

1) "Classic" will ship with WebOS.
2) The Pre will have WebOS on it.
3) Therefore, the Pre has to ship with "Classic", or #1 is a lie.


RE: screen
SeldomVisitor @ 4/2/2009 2:42:49 AM # Q
> ...Not good to nickel and dime loyal [Pre] customers.

You're not getting the idea behind WebOS "cloud-based services", huh?

RE: screen
freakout @ 4/2/2009 2:44:41 AM # Q
hkk:
I still imagine it'll be kinda rough to replace an accurate stylus with a fingertip on some older apps & games.

yep. It'll be rough to replace it, period. I'm gonna miss the stylus. Not as much as the d-pad, 'cause I rarely use it, but there are still times when a stylus makes more sense than a fingertip for poking around your device. plus, judging from a lot of the demo videos the Pre gathers fingerprints like a magnet. (does it?)

RE: screen
Ryan @ 4/2/2009 10:34:49 AM # Q
bhartman34 wrote:
The app will come with the phone, according to CNET:

That is incorrect, it will be a separate purchase available through the on-pre app catalogue (at launch).

RE: screen
Tere @ 4/2/2009 10:43:07 AM # Q
@bhartman: 1) Just because it's CNET doesn't mean it's right. 2) "Will ship at the same time as..." is just as obvious an interpretation of "Will ship with..." as "Will ship as part of..."

I think it would be nice if Palm offer to bundle it on the Pre, perhaps at the user's request or not, perhaps with an extra cost or not. But bundling would eliminate (at least) one step to getting Palm faithful to move to the Pre. In fact, it would be pretty cool to offer bundling service at time of sale. Venders could directly tap into the first day excitement and having apps installed could be a selling point for Palm.

So can we call the emu pre-Pre compatibility?
- Tere

RE: screen
bhartman34 @ 4/2/2009 10:46:25 AM # Q
Hi, Ryan.

You mean "ship with WebOS" means only that it will be available on WebOS through the app store?! Pardon my initialism, but WTF?! Isn't that a little like a car dealer saying he'll sell you a car with an in-dash GPS system, and then you find out that the car only comes with the number of the GPS dealer in the glove compartment?!

RE: screen
hkklife @ 4/2/2009 11:16:06 AM # Q
@ bhartmen34;

See how accurate my uncanny ability able to decipher Palm-speak is? ;-)

In all honesty, I was just recently helping a friend price/spec out new cars and I noticed a lot of car manufacturers' websites list have "feature" lists that have a hodge-podge of standard & optional equipment. So you have to hunt around to find out if that particular feature is standard, optional, or unavailable on your desired trim level. Sometimes they will even list multiple "features" in the same list of bullet points in conjunction with each other that you cannot combine within the same trim level (leather seats with a manual transmission, for example).

Yes, it WOULD be nice for Palm to bundle Classic it but it's NOT their M.O. right now...and they have not been particularly inclined to look back to their past since they uncerimoniously dumped Graffiti 1 from one device to the next without ever giving a satisfactory explanation or giving users some avenue of maintaining G1 (other than, as always, a flaky illegal (hacked G1 libraries) solution or a flaky, costly 3rd party solution (TealScript).

Sure, backwards compatibility is a nice unexpected bonus but I am much more concerned about the missing/omitted features (no hard buttons, no d-pad, undersized battery, no video recording, no stylus, no voice dialing, no memory card slot) and an overall loss in efficiency (too many taps, too many sub-menus etc) by the combination of the Pre's hardare & the WebOS UI/design.

Like Ron said earlier, Palm gives something right and some (ie: most) things wrong. But I carry a Palm OS device primarily for organization/PIM functions and e-mail (in that order). Every other function is secondary (though I would do much more in the way of multimedia if the hardware was capable of it). Therefore, my personal benchmark for ultimately judging the suitability of the Pre & WebOS to me will be comparing it to the classic Palm OS PIM apps the way they are on my TX & 755p.

Right now, I'm feeling pretty cynical about WebOS' PIM prowess not relative to the crude BB/iPhone/WinMob competitors but to its Garnet-based predecessors. I don't care to see if person X is online right now nor what they are posting on Facebook or any of the other stuff that the hipsters are doing nowadays. But I do value, for example, being able to quickly search one-handed for a contact whose name I cannot remember how to spell correctly while I'm on a phone call. Or entering a new contact or calendar event while I'm walking.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: screen
hkklife @ 4/2/2009 11:22:01 AM # Q
P.S.

CNET are NOTORIOUS for getting stuff wrong, though it varies wildly (of course) from writer to writer. CNET's Bonnie Cha was at the Palm event @ CES and I overheard her calling the Pre's chrome center button a "trackball" then before the Palm rep corrected her. Her report yesterday from CTIA is unfortunately still calling it a trackball:

http://tinyurl.com/cwesnk


Little details like that aren't hugely important but I'd kinda expect better from a senior editor at CNET who has been to two separate invite-only Pre/WebOS events.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: screen
Cameron @ 4/2/2009 1:46:13 PM # Q
Despite the fact that bundling Classic would probably help with adoption rates, I can't see any scenario under which Palm could be induced to do such a thing. It's a third-party app! It makes no more sense from a business standpoint to bundle Classic than it does to bundle Fandango or Pandora - plus, since it seems likely that Classic will be a paid app, Palm would have to pick up the cost!

Palm has already stated that they're done with Palm OS, if I recall correctly. If someone else wants to pick up that ball, like MotionApps, then from Palm's perspective, it's gravy - but it's not a business that Palm is in anymore. Bundling Classic would make it seem like the emulation is a core part of webOS's functionality, sending the signal to end users that Palm is responsible for compatibility and proper function. That's got to be the last thing Palm wants to worry about right now.

Long story short, now that we got something we all wanted for this phone, let's stop bitching just because it ain't free.

RE: screen
I.M Anonymous @ 4/2/2009 2:19:52 PM # Q
Just like it wouldn't make sense to bundle pTunes, Docs to Go, Versamail, and Google Maps with PalmOS? Oh, yeah, that's right, all those were shipped in ROM on the Centro.
RE: screen
BaalthazaaR @ 4/2/2009 2:52:16 PM # Q
I.M Anonymous wrote:
Just like it wouldn't make sense to bundle pTunes, Docs to Go, Versamail, and Google Maps with PalmOS? Oh, yeah, that's right, all those were shipped in ROM on the Centro.

Those were probably covered by existing agreements. If they're breaking away from their past, I could see them not bundling any third party software going forward.

RE: screen
hkklife @ 4/2/2009 2:54:01 PM # Q
I agree whole-heartedly with Cameron. There's a difference between being "nice to have" and being a "prudent business decision".

I'd have NO PROBLEM whatsoever paying for Classic, if it works reasonably well and (most importantly) Motion Apps can continue churning out updates. But that's just me and I see where others would be furious at least a limited version of Classic isn't included with every Pre. But I'd say it boils down to only costs, support headaches (which turn into costs), and moving away as swiftly as possible from the past 13 years of the Palm OS.

The examples cited by I.M. are 3rd party apps that were better than what Palm had before (PTunes vs. Real Player) and/or best-in-class solutions that addressed glaring flaws in Palm/PalmSource's hacked-up version of Garnet (no native media player etc). VersaMail was previous MultiMail and its IP is fully owned by Palm...and has been since '00 when Palm purchased Actual.

Now, on a semi-related note, if you are claiming that the Centro arguably represents a FAR BETTER value (regardless of Palm's margins on the device) than the Pre or any other device from Palm or even perhaps from any other smartphone...then I won't argue much with you there. Despite its shortcomings, the Centro still is a tremendous overall value from a productivity standpoint, as long as you can live with a few significant flaws. And on that note, I expect Palm to mimic Archos and intentionally leave off a lot of functionality from the Pre and charge $ to add it back in (voice recording, voice memo, video recording etc)
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: screen
twrock @ 4/3/2009 5:30:46 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Right now, I'm feeling pretty cynical about WebOS' PIM prowess not relative to the crude BB/iPhone/WinMob competitors but to its Garnet-based predecessors. I don't care to see if person X is online right now nor what they are posting on Facebook or any of the other stuff that the hipsters are doing nowadays. But I do value, for example, being able to quickly search one-handed for a contact whose name I cannot remember how to spell correctly while I'm on a phone call. Or entering a new contact or calendar event while I'm walking.

Kris, now you're sounding like an old man. C'mon, get hip already!

So on another note, please help this old man remember something. When Palm purchase perpetual rights to the Garnet code from ACCESS, the agreement included the whole "compatibility standard" thing. So when I see the ACCESS logo come splashing across the screen, I'm thinking MotionApps was given direct access (no pun intended) to use the Garnet code to develop Classic. So unlike Styletap, Classic "is" Garnet, making it very compatible. Yes? No?


Disclaimer: I am employed by Palm, Inc.
(or not)

RE: screen
twrock @ 4/3/2009 7:19:19 PM # Q
Oh, and also, splashes a lot of cold water on any attempt by Styletap to get their code working on webOS and possibly doing it "too well" (i.e. including things that Palm would prefer people not be able to do)?

During the video clips, I kept hearing the word "we" thrown around a lot instead of "they" when talking about Classic and what it was going to do. So just how "third-party" is this thing anyway? ;-)

Disclaimer: I am employed by Palm, Inc.
(or not)

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Very Nice

Scotland @ 4/1/2009 6:43:00 PM # Q
Really good news for the Palm faithful! Palm addressed one of the key weak spots for the Pre - compatibility with existing PalmOS apps - that hurt both long-time Palm users and developers. Degree of compatibility and price are both open questions but, overall, this is a very positive move. Availability of the emulator from Day 1 is also important - if the emulator was only available 6 mos down the road (like has been stated as being the case for Flash), then it wouldn't be much help to folks eager to pick up the Pre on Day 1.

Now the only 2 big items to address are:
1. More memory/storage (either onboard or via SDIO)
2. A C-based API for games and complex apps (this emulator and Docs2Go aren't being written using Mojo).

More internal storage is surely coming (more than 8GB at launch would be great but inevitable later in any case) and Palm would be foolish to ignore native applications once Mojo is made available.

Palm, please keep up the good work!

RE: Very Nice
sford @ 4/1/2009 7:09:04 PM # Q
"Really good news for the Palm faithful!"

Exactly! After 13 years with and hundreds of dollars on Palm devices and apps (on which I've come to rely), I just could not bring myself to switch to the Pre. I'm glad they didn't actually leave those of us who have kept them in business all these years out in the cold!

Well done, Palm.
Since 1996: Pilot Pro, III, IIIe, Nino (yeah...oops!), IIIc, VIIx, m505, NR70V, NZ90, NX60, T3, Zire 72s, NX80V, Treo 90, Treo 650

RE: Very Nice
sford @ 4/1/2009 8:59:42 PM # Q
Or perhaps, Well done MotionApps!!
Since 1996: Pilot Pro, III, IIIe, Nino (yeah...oops!), IIIc, VIIx, m505, NR70V, NZ90, NX60, T3, Zire 72s, NX80V, Treo 90, Treo 650
RE: Very Nice
twrock @ 4/1/2009 10:15:53 PM # Q
This is definitely interesting, but it is also in the "wait and see" category. Some of my "critical apps" include Chinese stuff, so it will be interesting to see just how much MotionApps can emulate of the old Palm OS.

Exciting stuff, nonetheless.

"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Very Nice
SeldomVisitor @ 4/2/2009 2:46:06 AM # Q
> ...Exciting stuff, nonetheless.

Why - literally - is this any more exciting than Palm's prior words ona third-party shop building a PalmOS emulator?

RE: Very Nice
twrock @ 4/2/2009 5:12:55 AM # Q
Yes, yes, yes, we know nothing about Palm will ever be exciting to you. But for me it was exciting because it has now gone from the "maybe some third-party will do it" to "here it is and it will be available when the device is released." No, you won't get excited about that because any good news about Palm is bad news to you. Your completely one-sided negative view of Palm (i.e. the refusal to see any good in anything about Palm) is no better than the fanboy who can't see the bad.

Hey, even with this latest news, I still have no intention of getting the Pre. But at least I can recognize movement in a positive direction. And some of that movement might even save the company. Imagine that!

Palm does some things right and does some things wrong. Get over it.

"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

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Check out the icons

sungod @ 4/1/2009 10:58:18 PM # Q
Am I the only one who has noticed that there is an icon called "HotSyncld.."?
If this is more than just a mock up it could also give everyone a simple way to transfer their data from Palm Desktop or maybe keep using PDt indefinetly.
RE: Check out the icons
grahamnind @ 4/1/2009 11:08:14 PM # Q
It may just be a way to set the HotSync ID name so that programs which require it will run. It may not mean you can synchronise with Desktop.
Reply to this comment

Hmmm..still not convinced

mabsut @ 4/2/2009 1:23:59 AM # Q
Will this sync with my desktop? Look, all I need is addresses, calendar, tasks, memos, passwords synced -not backed up- to my PC, and PC tools to edit them. Everything else is nice to have. This is what the Centro does, this is what Pre can't. I'll still go with the iphone.
RE: Hmmm..still not convinced
mikecane @ 4/3/2009 6:07:12 PM # Q
Apparently no HotSyncing with desktop.

You're moving your DB files over USB.

I'm guessing that'd be something like I once did transferring my DB files from a CLIE to a Palm TE.

But hey, since the Pre is seen as a mass storage device, you can just drag the DBs over to the PC at any time to back them up. (That's also what I had to do at one time when HotSync wasn't working for me.)

Reply to this comment

Not Mojo/Mojo is better than we thought

xImtc @ 4/2/2009 8:17:21 AM # Q
Emulation, especially "faster than native" on a 700P, is exactly the kind of thing that ought to be impossible on an HTML/JavaScript development environment. Does this suggest that MotionApps has access to a lower-level SDK, or that Mojo is going to do more than we are led to believe?
RE: Not Mojo/Mojo is better than we thought
SeldomVisitor @ 4/2/2009 8:26:25 AM # Q
It could suggest the emulator is cloud-based and only the UI elements are device resident. UI elements do not need to be "fast", typically.

Or it could suggest Motion was allowed to program in C (or whatever) rthat than HTML.

I'd be really REALLY surprised if Motion wants their source code visible to all so HTML/Javascript probably does NOT form the bulk of the emulator.

RE: Not Mojo/Mojo is better than we thought
palmato @ 4/2/2009 8:44:02 AM # Q
It's pretty clear to me that Motion Apps had access to the real sdk, a native and c based sdk.

Engadget adds that this is likely to be a one timer, although we all hope Palm changes its mind. Or has a real plan: mojo for simple web apps, c sdk for everything else.
Also it there might be strong limitations, such as lack of access to pre databases, pre specific services, etc.

-------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

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ship with webos

jptx @ 4/3/2009 6:10:17 AM # Q
I'm thinking it will come pre-installed as a trial- works for 90 days then you have to pony up $24.95...
RE: ship with webos
G M Fude @ 4/3/2009 3:59:23 PM # Q
You could be right.

Wow, in some countries that's a whole week's pay...

RE: ship with webos
twrock @ 4/3/2009 5:26:03 PM # Q
..., and so it's likely that MotionApps isn't going to sell a lot of copies of Classic to those people to install on the Pre's they couldn't afford to buy. Funny how that works, the whole "economy" and "wealth" thing. ;-)

If I owned a Pre and if Classic supported my list of critical Garnet apps that haven't yet been developed for webOS, I wouldn't hesitate to shell out that $25 bucks.

Disclaimer: I am employed by Palm, Inc.
(or not)

RE: ship with webos
G M Fude @ 4/3/2009 10:41:59 PM # Q
Exactly. What's 25 bucks for that level of back-compatibility. Won't stop people grizzling about it, though, probably even if it was only ten dollars.
Reply to this comment

Looks like Palm is now depending on Motionapps' emulator

SeldomVisitor @ 4/25/2009 3:38:16 AM # Q
http://discussion.treocentral.com/1588818-post4.html

I wonder how many OTHER applications Palm is going to tout between now and launch (or even between now and infinity) that actually are emulated PalmOS programs.

Come to think of it, did the developers of Epocrates comment in that gushing Me-Too Media article about how developers love WebOS?

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