Rumor: New palmOne Tungsten Image on Amazon

A possible image of a upcoming Tungsten handheld has shown up in a new listing on New rumors point to a slider-less model, with a 320x480 display and a release as early as next Tuesday.

In a listing for a new unreleased Tungsten series hardcase on amazon, an additional picture shows a unknown handheld, which closely resembles a Tungsten E with a 320x480 display. As likely as this may be a upcoming palmOne handheld, one could even speculate that it could be a Tungsten E successor or a T5, there is no conclusive evidence at this point.

The image does not reveal any specs or details about the handheld. However, last week a number of new palmOne accessories were posted to the J&R retailer's website. A "palmOne Stylus Pen Multi-Pack" was posted, which indicated compatibility with the Tungsten E, Zire 72 and the Tungsten T5.

Also listed on J&'s site are 3 other new accessories that indicate the Tungsten | T5 will share the same cable/cradle connector as the upcoming Treo 650. J& lists a palmOne Travel Charger, USB Desktop Cable, and Vehicle Power Adapter that are stated to be "For Palm T5 and Handspring Treo 650".

The Amazon entry lists an availability date of October 5th. This would confirm reports by, the Register, which is claiming the model could come as early as next week.

Thanks to Sean for contributions, and Scott for the image tip for this article.

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2 cents...

peitron @ 9/29/2004 12:57:59 PM #
A couple of thoughts....

If they eliminated the slider, and there is no wi-fi or voice recorder (?)what's the extra space for? Extra RAM isn't going to eat up all the space. A second SD slot? If so, I agree that the T5 would basically be a PPC from 2002.

At $400 + another $50 for a cradle, this unit is completly overpriced.

I see no use in upgrading my T3, other than to get a new version of the OS. If an OS upgrade is made available, the T5 may be a commercial fiasco.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: 2 cents...
critic @ 9/29/2004 1:12:32 PM #
Where are you getting all this from, considering the only info in the Amazon posting is the info for the case?

Also, if you click through to Amazon's site, or click the image above, you can see in the full-size version that the handheld shown is from the "T" family. Of course, it COULD just be a mockup.

What do you think, sirs?

RE: 2 cents...
Altema @ 9/29/2004 1:25:51 PM #
It's my opinion that this is the new TE, being used as a distraction. However, if it IS the T5, I'm keeping my T3!

RE: 2 cents...
peitron @ 9/29/2004 2:19:52 PM #
But wasn't the new TE supposed to be delayed until the spring? It might just be a prototype that was leaked (as comment below reminds us, it's the same picture leaked at Brighthand).

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: 2 cents...
Ronin @ 9/29/2004 2:38:00 PM #
Looks to me like the upgrade for the T|E not the upgrade to the T|T3. In fact, based on the image of the toolbar which is identical to the one on the T3, I would say it is running some flavor of OS5.

In the event that these photos are accurate and the rumored specs are on target, I think that this would be a reasonable upgrade to the T|E.

In the Spirit of Umoja,

RE: 2 cents...
hkklife @ 9/29/2004 2:53:27 PM #
There is NOTHING on this model (if the rumors are correct) that I'd find attractive in the slightest over my T3 to consider upgrading. Well, the fixed tablet shape is nice but not nearly enough to make me give up my T3.

This thing, whatever it is, SHOULD be called the T|E2 and priced at $300 max. It'd sell like hotcakes as the successor to the original T|E, regardless of OS version. Otherwise, I predict a slow death for it at $400.

But by calling it a T|T5, P1 is throwing all prior chronology out of whack. Unless their devious plan is to basically drop all of the current Tungstens other than the T5 & TC and just go with two Zires for the lower end of the market.

I still think it's far too early for them to gamble so much on the smartphone market. The presence of just one single Smartphone candybar formfactor makes it very worrying to me as well.

Predictions for October/November:

Zire 21: officially discontinued, unofficially still avaialable in stores through early '05, new MSRP <$100
Zire 31: Unchanged
Zire 72: New MSRP of $250 after current rebate offer ends

T|E: Discontinued as it'll steal sales from T5 and it still offers too much bang for the $
T|T3: Discontinued with a final price cut to move out existing units (also all remaining UC accessories are heavily discounted as well)
T|C: Stays around until spring '05 with new P1 packaging and a $50 price drop. P1 quietly ignores the fact that it is the lone unit still with UC.
T|T5: Launches at $400 to lackluster sales. P1 quickly comes up with a $400 bundle of T5 & Wi-Fi card and drops MSRP of handheld-only T5 to $300-$350.

Treo 600: MSRP dropped by ~$100 and all sorts of other deals depending on carrier
Treo 650: Launches with Sprint only for remainder of '04. Sells decently at $600 but not well enough to bet the farm on.

RE: 2 cents...
kevdo @ 9/29/2004 3:03:57 PM #
>If so, I agree that the T5 would basically be a PPC from 2002.

Sure. Except it has twice the screen resolution. That's no small selling point.

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

Is It Going to Fly?

Robotica1 @ 9/29/2004 1:26:26 PM #
Looks like the T-3 build style. It's a solid business PDA in looks. But if the rumored specs are correct, it will be underwhelming. More memory and a tablet shape will not make T-3 owners jump to buy it. Even a new OS might not be enough to get me to pay-up. What would be interesing:

> an advanced multi-media engine
> enhanced amplifier for MP3 playback
> faster processor
> Wi-Fi (it's still low on the growth curve but the buzz is great and PPC's have made it derigueur
> dual SD slots


RE: Is It Going to Fly?
LiveFaith @ 9/29/2004 5:09:38 PM #
NO WAY PalmOne is going to attempt to push this thing off as an advancement called the T5. Forget it!

Pat Horne;

I *like* the slider!

skeezix @ 9/29/2004 1:48:53 PM #

All these rumours include dropping the slider..

All I can say is that would be *terrible* in my opinion :) (So many people say they hate it, but I'm betting many of those aren't ones who own the devices in question. Though many who do own them dislike it... *sigh*)..

If the new T|T comes out, with no slider.. I won't buy it. I picked up a sexy vaja case for the T|T1, used it with the T|T2, and it still fit (though not quite perfeclty) my beloved T|T3. The slider is essential -- keeps the unit small and portable without looking like you've got a banana in your pocket :)

So I for one love the slider design and will be sorely disappointed if they drop it :( How could I buy another device that doesn't fit my sleek vaja case? :)


(OKay, for those keeping track, I'm a developer and I buy a lot of devices. But I'll take a pass on this one if no slider!)

The Shadow knows!

RE: I *like* the slider!
peitron @ 9/29/2004 2:13:53 PM #

Love the slider.

PalmOne would be walking like a crab if it markets this unit as a model T.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: I *like* the slider!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 2:48:29 PM #
I own a slider device and I massively detest it.
I think you make great software, Jeff, but you have lousy taste in hardware. ;-)

I am not a very good artist, but I lay down this challenge:

Take a T3 and open the slider. On a sheet of paper, make an outline of the device and, as best you can, overlay an outline of the full, expanded screen. Now close the device and line it up with your previous paper outline. Draw where the bottom of the collapsed T3 case goes relative to the previous outline.

Now take a look. You'll find that below the screen outline and above the outline of the collapsed case there is PLENTY of room for a D-Pad and hardware buttons.

In other words: It is very, very possible for P1 to design a device with the best of both worlds: no slider, yet still the size of the T3 collapsed.

There is NO size advantage to the slider. It only takes a little bit of thoughtful design to get your cake and eat it too.

RE: I *like* the slider!
skeezix @ 9/29/2004 3:09:10 PM #
Sure, if you toss out the d-pad and such, theres lots of room ;)

To me, size is everything; I want the device small and in pocket; comparing it to a NX60 Clie or the like.. forget it, they're huge. No way. If you toss the slider out and gain half an inch.. its too much :)

What they really need is the same specs, and alternate choices (ie: We buy via specs, and have input preferences.); T|T5a and b and c -- slider, no slider large screen, and 320x320 Variation on input, but same specs otherwise. The T|C is really just a specialized T|T3 in my books .. no slider, but thumboard; both have fast CPUs and such, different software bundled, plus the 802.11.

Ah, I'm not picky; I change devices frequently (I even wrote a tool to copy and restore all my personal data to SD card, so I swap devices in less than 5 minutes for the most part :) .. but I like my slider. It doesn't matter to me if anyone else likes it :)


The Shadow knows!

RE: I *like* the slider!
Hotoru @ 9/29/2004 4:13:57 PM #
I agree.. 100% I have the T3 and I LOVE the silder design. I love taking it out of my pocket and sliding it open to turn the unit on. then closed when I want to turn it off. In addition, I read books with the slider closes as it does not seem to use up battery as quickly (I think it doesnt light the bottom 1/3rd of screen closed).

RE: I *like* the slider!
CaptMyCapt @ 9/29/2004 4:31:08 PM #
Exactly! The slider was a brainstorm success. I've owned all slider Ts. Love the heck out of it. Fix the d**n digitizer, do the other adders (i.e., WiFi, BT, etc.) and leave the darn slider alone.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: I *like* the slider!
Altema @ 9/29/2004 4:49:16 PM #
Patrick, to get a real picture of things, you need to remove the slider and measure what is really below the screen. There is only 4.2 millimeters of hardware below that point without the slider. The bottom of the slider itself is 7mm below the bottom of the screen. Keep in mind that the physical screen is larger than what you see, the actual bottom is not the bottom of the status bar. The current T3 button layout is 22mm high and 45mm wide, with the d-pad itself being 15mm by 22mm.

The 7mm space you are proposing as plenty of space would be pretty tight, seeing as just the select button itself is almost 6mm high. palmOne would have to make a slider-less T5 longer than a closed T3 just to have enough room for the buttons. On the plus side, they could also make the device thinner and have a larger battery. However, it will not be as small as a closed T3.

This is actually why I like the slider... I get generous buttons and enough device to get a good grip on, as well as a large screen, all on one of the most compact devices around. Despite being an extreme user, I don't need any more memory or speed, just more battery and ocassional wi-fi.

RE: I *like* the slider!
LiveFaith @ 9/29/2004 5:14:10 PM #
I like the slider too. Keeps the unity compressed and small 4/5ths of the time, yet allows widescreen usage for books, spreadsheets, games or web only when desired. The T3 is an awesome and useful form factor. Hard to get a replaceable battery that way tho + a little "rickety" compared to a Vx or m5xx.

Pat Horne;
RE: I *like* the slider!
radleyp @ 9/29/2004 5:37:02 PM #
Patrick, the unit you are describing exists (or at least existed). It's the SonyTH55 and the instant I started operating it, I realized that the buttons and the "d-pad" were a disaster. Much too small! Your design sense is fooling you because you are using the dimensions of the Palm and its slider without considering the dimensions of a person's hand and fingers (and FYI I have small hands). I do like the slider, but I could also use a unit without one (and did for a quite a while). For those like me, however, for whom size is a crucial element, the slider is a brilliant solution. Philippe Radley

RE: I *like* the slider!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 5:39:32 PM #
Althema... If I understand you correctly, I don't think you are being fair! By removing the slider portion you are making the device smaller than what it is in its normal "closed" position.

I think there is more room than what you have suggested. Basically, I'm saying take the outline of a closed T3 and overlay on that outline where the screen is -- not the closed screen, the full 320x480 screen. Now look below the screen and you'll find that there is plenty of room for the hardware buttons. They may be a tad smaller than the ones that are on the device now, but they would still be quite servicable, IMO.

That way you get a no-slider, always-open T3, but the size of a T3 when it is CLOSED. Again, I say THE SLIDER DOES NOT MAKE THE DEVICE SMALLER. An ever-so-slightly better hardware button design can completely obviate the need for a mechanical slider.

RE: I *like* the slider!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 5:44:08 PM #
Radleyp ... Sorry, but I could never accept Sony hardware button design as an argument to prove anything. Not even that the sky is blue. You may be right, but not because of the fact that Sony's buttons are crap.

RE: I *like* the slider!
hotpaw4 @ 9/29/2004 6:31:27 PM #
If the width of the SD cards in the photo of the case are correctly scaled, then whatever handheld might be pictured in the case is about 4.5" tall (count the pixels). This is the same height as the T|E, and about a quarter inch taller than a closed T|T3. Note that the Palm V was also 4.5" tall.

So the T3 slider would allow larger buttons while saving a quarter inch. There's less room below a 320x480 display for buttons than you think because, just like a TV, the physical glass needs to be bigger than the usable active display area.

I will leave it as an exercise for the student to infer a display DPI from the photo.

RE: I *like* the slider!
rsc1000 @ 9/29/2004 6:57:16 PM #
I like the slider IF the measurements are the same as the T|T1 - NOT the T|T3. IMO the look and feel of the T|1 is much better than the T3. It feels more solid and is more pocketable. Although the T3 has obviously better specs (and has been universally praised as a success by comparison) than the T1 - the T1 beats the T3 hands down in terms of ergonomics. It just feels much nicer and more solid than the cheapo feel of the T3 case. Yes - the T3 screen won't quite fit the T1 case - but it is close and i believe they could have done a much better compromise (or at least they could now). And it goes without saying that the T1 has a D-Pad that is 100x better than the crap square plastic thing that is supposed to be the T3s D-Pad. I own both and i end up using the T1 more for daily, on the road activity because of the afore mentioned ergonomics and superior battery life. If i get a new game the question i ask first is: will this run smoothly on my t1? If yes - then the game goes on my t1 where i can enjoy better playability because of the DPad. If not i put it on my T3 to get the extra horsepower (or extra heap if thats what the game needs). Getting off topic but oh well...

RE: I *like* the slider!
JonathanChoo @ 9/30/2004 4:00:57 AM #
This is just an opinion, IF this is the T5 then I would be sorely dissapointed.

I really like the slider and now its gone. Instead it shares the same design as the budget model TE. Even if it comes in real aluminium casing, WiFi, bigger battery, more RAM and processor speed I doubt I would be able to separate my money for such a design.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

I too, really *like* the slider!
RAMd®d @ 9/30/2004 9:54:18 AM #
But it could use some Teutonic execution.

My T3 loosened up somewhat, giving a slightly vague feel. For the first two weeks, it was terrific. If it *stayed* as tight as a SigSauer or hk, that would be a whole different story.

But, I'd be sorry to see the slider go. I want a lot of screen but in a form smaller than my iPAQ. (In fact, I'd love to see P1 bring out an updated Vx/m515. Svelte is good!).

I'm kind of wanting a Wi-Fi/BT Tungsten smaller than a breadbox.

We'll see what next week brings. My T3 still has some miles left, so I won't be heartbroken if the T5 doesn't WOW! me.

An armed society is a polite society.

RE: I *like* the slider!
Altema @ 9/30/2004 11:36:02 AM #
Patrick, the measurement from the bottom edge of the physical screen hardware, to the bottom of the closed slider, is 7mm. If there was a way to upload photos here I could show you directly, but since PIC does not allow that, I can only give the real measurements I took from an actual device.

I know the looks of the T3 are deceptive, that's why I measured it myself.

RE: I *like* the slider!
dagwud @ 9/30/2004 11:42:07 AM #
RAMd®d wrote:

"(In fact, I'd love to see P1 bring out an updated Vx/m515. Svelte is good!)"

Which is precisely the reason that I have stayed with my m515, in spite of all the neat stuff that an OS5 model would do for me.

RE: I *like* the slider!
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 2:22:52 PM #

I like the fact that your thinking about P1 making a smaller, tighter and ergonomic device. I think this is one area where P1 has advantage over most PPCs (except HPs excellent 19xx & 41xx form, imo).

One thing you are not considering in your "T3 pencil revelation" is the fact that just because the T3 viewable screen area ends at a certain point does not mean that the actual LCD hardware ends there. Actually, the slider (& on all others too) covers a significant extension of the hardware LCD and its thin wiring. To make measurements based on the viewable screen are not true measurements. Measurements must be made on the actual piece of LCD hardware which must be used. It's the same concept as looking at the CRT or LCD on the PC/Mac that you are reading this post on. You may have a 17" viewable monitor, but the plastic outer edge is covering some "underhand" or the actual tube or LCD circuitry.

The T3 is actually quite efficient and compact when you see the guts of it. The rounded bottom is aesthetically pleasing, yet probably wastes a bit of length. Otherwise the inside is quite well compacted.

While the slider offers the following drawbacks ... thickness, moving parts, weight, less solidity & expense, it has in my personal usage more advantages. Pocketability is very important for daily and hourly "power" usage and the Ts fit the bill, while having excellent spacious buttons. I even appreciate the much maligned circular T3 arrangement because of the way they "rotate" automatically and ergonomically when using the device in landscape mode.

One last point of importance for the slider. I have found personally that accessing my T3 with slider "closed" works perfectly for 80%-90% of tasks. This means that 80-90% of the time, I have a tiny PDA with an excellent button arrangement. Yet, when I want to play a game, view photos, movies, read the Bible or book, edit a Word doc etc which can benefit from the widescreen, my T3 is only a quick slide away from automatically becoming a "bigger" device. When it's ready to go back to the pocket "shazaam", it's tiny again. An important point is that most of the times we access data, which is the usage of most all PDAs, we do not need 320x480. The T3 slider makes it excellent in both worlds imo.

Now, if you use a T or T2 without the nice status bar, then I understand your frustration. The T3 is a totally different world compared to the "crippled" slider design of those original units.

Finally, if you were going to minimize the length of a tablet device, then button ergonomics will most certainly suffer. That may not show up on the spec sheet, but it will in real world usage.

Pat Horne;


VT-Vincent @ 9/29/2004 2:10:11 PM #
Wait a minute, hasn't this image been posted before, and already admitted to be a spoof by it's creator? As originally broke here - I don't understand how this could have come on Amazon's site unless one of their graphics designers thought it would be cute to put the hoax in the unreleased case.
RE: Spoof?
peitron @ 9/29/2004 2:17:15 PM #
Good point, unless the confession was a hoax to downplay the leak. This is all too confusing.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: Spoof?
superdork @ 9/29/2004 2:22:15 PM #
I am almost positive that if this thing is real, it is the new itteration of the Tungsten E line and not the T. I would almost bet money on it....almost! :)
I'll keep my HX4700 IPAQ until I find out more. It's gonna be hard to beat it's 640x480 screen, but if it has built in Wifi and looks more closely like the previous supposed hoax pictures,
I'll probably bite.(MS Mobile sucks something BIG!!)

RE: Spoof?
jack @ 9/29/2004 2:44:14 PM #
totally agree about Pocket PC sucking; can't believe I went to the dark side
. Let's hope. So far pen and paper beats Microsoft...

RE: Spoof?
Gekko @ 9/29/2004 2:47:42 PM #

It's a mystery, it's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma!

RE: Spoof?
hoodoo @ 9/29/2004 3:33:21 PM #
Thanks Winston

RE: Spoof?
A Tom B @ 9/29/2004 4:47:12 PM #
There's somebody at in IT at amazon right now laughing their a$$e$ off at all of you!!...somebody with some graphics extpertise of course!
RE: Spoof?
I.M Anonymous @ 9/30/2004 1:00:30 AM #
You are confusing your "leaks." The earlier pictures that looked like a T|C were fakes, and the creator admitted it. The pictures that looked like a T|E has several flaws, but 1src still claims they are real.

RE: Spoof?
ganoe @ 9/30/2004 8:55:35 AM #
These photos are from an ad for a case and a cradle. Isn't it possible that these are just mock-up PDAs to sell the case and crade?

tellit2be @ 9/30/2004 10:43:35 AM #
In an attempt to boost sales at the beginning of the fall shopping season, PalmOne officially announced the “Tungsten O”. Inside sources have confirmed that the device, of which only 1,000 were manufactured, will have an orange / metal casing - similar to that of the Tungsten E. The application buttons located at the bottom of the unit will be gray and black in color. The unit will run the new PalmOne OS, Cobalt, and have a 320 by 480 (portrait and landscape capable) screen. It will also include 512mb of onboard memory, and will come with the expandable stylus made famous by the first Tungsten. This model will be Wi-Fi and Bluetooth enabled.

Our sources also confirm the meaning behind the “O” moniker: “With the orange and black case, and the name Tungsten O, it’s pretty obvious that PalmOne created this device to sell during their October sales kickoff. Releasing a limited edition unit with strong specs may help season-opening sales in a market that is currently in a slump. While it is fabulous to find all of the listed specifications finally included within a single PalmOne unit, we are not sure how the public will react to the Halloween themed color scheme.”

The official release date of the PalmOne Tungsten O is October 5, 2004.

Picture located at :::

Tell It 2 Be

RE: Spoof?
lamp @ 9/30/2004 11:37:03 AM #
In an attempt to boost sales at the beginning of the fall shopping season, PalmOne officially announced the “Tungsten O”

Picture located at :::

Sort of looks like the Claudia Schiffer Model dressed up for Halloween. Mmmm, Claudia dressed as a witch... ZAP!!! Arg!! Damn it. She bought the T5 model with the built-in Taser.

RE: Spoof?
tellit2be @ 9/30/2004 12:26:56 PM #
Funny you mention it...

I was gonna buy my girlfriend that model for her birthday, but she had a problem with it fitting in her purse or pocket.


Maybe they should make those optional SDIO and UC attachments.

Tell It 2 Be

No wifi - No sale

rikster @ 9/29/2004 3:39:04 PM #
I think the subject says it all....

There's no wifi icon on this model - so I'm not buying it. Bye bye palm, hello PPC. We've all been waiting too long for you to bring out a 2003 PPC competitor.

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