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Comments on: New Palm OS Treo Nitro Pictures

Treo Nitro Pictures - Click for LargerRumor: Images of what appear to be a new Palm OS Treo model have been posted on a Chinese PDA message board. This Treo could likely be the long rumored 4th new model due this year code-named Lowridder or Nitro. Previously leaked documents from Cingular point out this is a GSM smartphone that could be released in October.
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Who makes this device?

EdH @ 8/4/2006 1:06:13 PM # Q
If it is the same company making the 700p that has put a temporary cap on production due to "unspecified software problems" I wouldn't look for a big October release.

I would also think Europe would be a huge target for this device. Anyone heard rumors of a European carrier picking this up?

RE: Who makes this device?
craigdts @ 8/4/2006 1:23:13 PM # Q
Ed,

Don't know what to make of it now, but I've seen several rumors of a September release of 2 new Palm devices on Cingular. (Lennon & Nitro - now we are back in line with Sagio's original predictions/insider info)

By the way . . . I think the "unspecified software problems" is old news. The 700p is out and I have not seen any supply constraint issues. The reason why I say it's old news - because the 700p was release some 6 months or so after the 700w. Now we are getting the explanation for the - it was inventec who bungled it or some unspecified softwware problems. I would think that Palm would have preferred to release the 700p early 2nd Qtr.

RE: Who makes this device?
treo007 @ 8/4/2006 9:41:22 PM # Q
Please keep in mind who it is that made the above post. Ed Hansberry, self appointed WM fanboy and attack dog for all things Palm OS.

He never misses an opportunity to douse any positive Palm OS news with some sort of FUD.


RE: Who makes this device?
EdH @ 8/5/2006 8:44:11 AM # Q
craigdts wrote:

By the way . . . I think the "unspecified software problems" is old news. The 700p is out and I have not seen any supply constraint issues. The reason why I say it's old news - because the 700p was release some 6 months or so after the 700w. Now we are getting the explanation for the - it was inventec who bungled it or some unspecified softwware problems."

No, at least not according to
http://www.digitimes.com/telecom/a20060803A9049.html which positions this as a current problem. From the article: "Inventec Appliances may not be able to start volume production of Palm's PDA phone, the Treo 700p, until September, due to related software problems, according to market sources. The original schedule was for volume production to start at the beginning of the second quarter."

So, there is at least another month or so of this limited production of the 700p, which is why I asked about this new device and who was making it.

treo007 wrote:

Please keep in mind who it is that made the above post. Ed Hansberry, self appointed WM fanboy and attack dog for all things Palm OS.

He never misses an opportunity to douse any positive Palm OS news with some sort of FUD."

I am impressed. Did you click on my name "EdH" and see my full name all by yourself without any help? What I should have done is picked a fanboy name, like, oh... I don't know, maybe treo007 so I could advertise my object of desire with every post I make.

As far as spreading FUD, let's look at that. F is for fear. Are you fearful of production delays in the PalmOS versions of the Treo? U is for uncertainty. Are you uncertian how to respond to my post with any sort of factual data and thus resort to an ad hominem? D is for doubt. Do you doubt your ability to maintain a train of thought in these threads so instead fixate on me?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8539/#121513
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/5288/#77856
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/4562/#70488
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/4562/#70486

I'd fixate on something else too to take my mind off of the tragedy that unfolds before me in the world of PalmOS.

Meanwhile, no one has answered the original question, which suggests to me no one knows the answer - or they don't want to know the answer.



RE: Who makes this device?
treo007 @ 8/5/2006 11:37:08 AM # Q
Whatever Ed, I could take the time to go through your reply post.

Why both theough when we all know who you are and what you represent. It's not like you ever done a very good job disguising it.

You've made yourself a joke a long time ago.

Reply to this comment

Look's naked without the stub

cervezas @ 8/4/2006 1:12:45 PM # Q
Bring back the antenna, Palm! Why are you removing it when it was one of the Treo's most important features?! What will I grab onto when I need to whip it out of its case? What will I use to push the elevator button when I've got a briefcase in one hand and the Treo in the other? What does an antenna stub cost? 25 cents?! Shame on you for leaving it out, Palm!

;-)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Look's naked without the stub
joad @ 8/4/2006 7:20:19 PM # Q
Uh-oh.. now it's even closer to a doorstop right out of the box!

RE: Look's naked without the stub
palmdoc88 @ 8/5/2006 12:38:03 AM # Q
We (those of use outside the US of A) don't need the external antenna to tell us which way to hold the Treo :P

------------
http://palmdoc.net
Beersy trapped in a man's body?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/5/2006 4:34:53 PM # Q
What will I grab onto when I need to whip it out


Mike Cane?

Geeko?

Does your wife know about your "confusion", Beersy?

TVoR


Reply to this comment

More pics (of back) and palm os

craigdts @ 8/4/2006 1:43:58 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor

craigdts @ 8/4/2006 1:48:06 PM # Q
This will be palm's first low end treo. I'd expect them to throw in a different radio and spit out a CDMA version also. We have heard rumors that the 650 is discontinued - palm can now make the Nitro cheaper than the 650 with new parts - with this they are targeting the mass consumer market.
RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
SeldomVisitor @ 8/4/2006 1:56:05 PM # Q
Why in the world do you think this is "low end"?

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
craigdts @ 8/4/2006 1:58:43 PM # Q
reports are the camera is .3 mp and smaller battery. looks to be the consumer model. Plus it will be will not be 3g.
Thats why I also think a similar model will be out for CDMA.
RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
hkklife @ 8/4/2006 2:21:08 PM # Q
It'd be foolish for Palm to try and make this a lower-end CDMA model. With just a VGA camera & smaller capacity battery differentiating it from the 700P, I don't see nearly enough disctinction between the two models.

Palm would be FAR better suited to taking this new casing, shoehorning the 700P innards (inc. camera & battery) into it and calling it a 750P. That'd let them squeeze another year out of Verizon & Sprint with almost zero R&D spending and stick with a higher margin upmarket device. Besides, the CDMA carriers want to champion EVDO-capable devices since it lets them sell their pricey data & content packages.

Verizon is trying (somewhat) to break out of their customary mold of phones sporting external antennae. Look at the RAZR, the upcoming CDMA SLVR, the new LG Chocolate and the Q for examples of this.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
AdamaDBrown @ 8/4/2006 3:18:10 PM # Q
I doubt it. They already have the 700p, and all evidence indicates that the specs aren't going to be significantly different for the GSM Treos later this year. I wouldn't expect this to be low end, just the GSM version of the 700p.

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
lolongan @ 8/4/2006 5:14:06 PM # Q
So, does this mean that if you want to have 3G/UMTS and Wifi, you have no other choice than to switch to WM (with the Lennon) ?
RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
AdamaDBrown @ 8/4/2006 7:02:45 PM # Q
Maybe, maybe not. First, I'm as yet not convinced that the Lennon really will have WiFi. Only one document indicated it would, and subsequent Vodafone docs suggested it wouldn't.

As for UMTS--bearing in mind that I'm not an expert--I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Palm will hack together some kind of solution that allows for UMTS on POS, even if they have to break the standard and suspend data while on a voice call. Maybe they won't, I don't know. But at this point I probably wouldn't assume one way or another.

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
hkklife @ 8/4/2006 7:26:11 PM # Q
UMTS AND wi-fi under poor ol' FrankenGarnet is nigh impossible.

I personally am not counting on either anytime soon.

I think the "Nitro" will end up being nearly identical to the 700P in every way save for the lack of EVDO-comparable speeds (just EDGE) and the sleeker housing.

What a typical quandry for the POS faithful:

Go with the GSM 700P and get global coverage and a nicer FF but with reduced transmission speeds?

OR

Go with a CDMA 700P and get faster speeds but with a bulky, ungainly FF that's limited to North America?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
Surur @ 8/4/2006 7:35:15 PM # Q

VGA in 2006 is decidedly low-end.

This is the low-end-rider.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
http;//www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
PadOPaper @ 8/5/2006 4:36:35 PM # Q
>> VGA in 2006 is decidedly low-end.

Um, vga is 320x240. We're talking about square screened Palm OS 320x320 Treos!?

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
AdamaDBrown @ 8/5/2006 7:42:58 PM # Q
320 x 240 is QVGA. VGA is 640 x 480.

RE: I bet this will be released in a GSM and CDMA flavor
pascanu @ 8/6/2006 4:43:05 AM # Q
>> VGA in 2006 is decidedly low-end.

> Um, vga is 320x240. We're talking about square screened Palm OS 320x320 Treos!?

I think he was talking about the camera...

Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650

Reply to this comment

Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?

Foo Fighter @ 8/4/2006 1:45:23 PM # Q
I thought the GSM model was supposed to be thinner than the current 700 model? The antenna is gone as expected, but these images don't depict a skinnier Treo. Not that I can make out anyway.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
hkklife @ 8/4/2006 2:26:40 PM # Q
It's probably very, very slightly thinner. Just enough for Palm to tout it as a product feature.

Quite honestly, though, it's amazing how the tapered corners on the 700 series makes for a better feel in hand over the 650/600.

Does the stylus look slightly different as well to you as well?
It looks more squared off and a bit thicker in the silo.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
Foo Fighter @ 8/4/2006 2:37:17 PM # Q
Yes, that's definitely a new stylus design, at least the top of it. It also appears to have been relocated more towards the back rather than the corner.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
cervezas @ 8/4/2006 3:14:53 PM # Q
I thought the GSM model was supposed to be thinner than the current 700 model?

It was 3 or 4 months ago, but as I heard it (from a little bird) the Treo with the significantly slimmer form factor and price was postponed until 2007. It looks like this one took its place in the 2006 line-up. But these things change so I wouldn't make too much of this.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
AdamaDBrown @ 8/4/2006 3:20:04 PM # Q
The expectations of slimness were based primarily on the Sagio report, which is a very dubious source. The device in the photos does appear a little thinner, particularly in the keyboard area which now seems to be beveled down, but otherwise not a big difference.

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
neuron @ 8/4/2006 3:27:27 PM # Q
Without a case, treo is not thick at all, comparing with 90% smartphones out there. The problem is treo is too sleek. Most users have to use a case to make sure it can be hold firmly, which make this device very thick.

Hope Palm can make the surface more comfortable to hold.

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
cervezas @ 8/4/2006 4:17:21 PM # Q
The Sagio report never said anything about there being a slimmer Treo and this doesn't change from your repetition to the contrary. Sagio quoted a Morgan Stanley analyst in Asia who said that Hollywood would be "fancier," aimed at Europe, and missing the beloved antenna stub. It was Engadget that speculated that this meant "a very thin 3G device." And thus was born another baseless rumor, reinforced by the me-too media.

Sagio's report actually has been pretty dead-on in describing the Treos that have been released so far this year. They were just off on the release dates.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
hkklife @ 8/4/2006 5:15:54 PM # Q
Neuron is right. I've always said that while it'd be nice to see a thinner Treo, what would really be great would be a rubberized, non-peeling soft-touch finish that makes it easier to hold & more secure.

Heck, I even asked Seidio if they were going to release a replacement battery door cover with the same stuff on it as the Black Tie 650!

The original Handspring Visor design was on the right track with those ridges on the side of the unit. Where the lighter colored grey trim is on the sides of the Treo 700 would be an ideal place for something rubberized or with grooves.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
AdamaDBrown @ 8/4/2006 7:08:15 PM # Q
The Sagio report never said anything about there being a slimmer Treo

Did I say they did? No. But the expectation did come from the Sagio report, which hinted around at a Q-like device without saying anything that they could be held to later.

Sagio quoted a Morgan Stanley analyst in Asia who said that Hollywood would be "fancier," aimed at Europe, and missing the beloved antenna stub.

Actually, they cited an anonymous MS analyst as saying that production would be 200,000 units per month. (Which is as many for one model as all current Treos sell put together--a bit high.) They did not attribute to this ghost the report about the "fancier," "more stylish" Treo.

It was Engadget that speculated that this meant "a very thin 3G device." And thus was born another baseless rumor, reinforced by the me-too media.

I'll agree that it was baseless.

Sagio's report actually has been pretty dead-on in describing the Treos that have been released so far this year. They were just off on the release dates.

Have you actually read that report? If not, you should. It's so ridiculously sycophantic, I doubt you'd get through it without laughing. Think equal parts stock pumping, bad writing, and vague promises. The only thing that they got right before it was available from other sources was the idea of four Treos--which, in hindsight, could have been simply a shrewd or lucky guess. The Treo 700w and 700p were already reasonably common knowledge at the time of the first report. The European push was tipped by Palm setting up a European R&D center last year. Also, they predicted for Palm to hit the $50-$55 per share range. It's currently $14.35.

Not to mention, they manage to cite two different release dates for the "Hollywood," eight weeks apart, in the same report.

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
joad @ 8/4/2006 7:24:17 PM # Q
As much as I'd appreciate having out-of-the-box grippiness on Treos, after seeing what a mess that rubberized stuff made of the Zire 72's I'm not sure I'd want it all over my $700.00 phone.

For now, Egrips work just fine, and I can replace them every 6 months or so when they start to wear down or peel off. Knowing Palm, they'd probably reject warranty service if the rubber started peeling off, just as they refuse to acknowledge keyboard problems or screws falling out as anything but "user caused" under their "warranty."

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
hkklife @ 8/4/2006 7:30:06 PM # Q
Problem is that Egrips are almost TOO grippy, depending on what kind of pants/pockets you are carrying your device in.

Also I've found them to lose adhesiveness after less than 6 months...2 months is about all I've been able to get out of 'em.

Has anyone tried the Treo 700-specific E-Grips? I'm really tempted to order some and give them a shot (I had been using the generic ones I bought at CompUSA).

That's another reason I advocated the rubberized battery door-it's purely optional and easily replacable (Supposedly the 650 BT Edition is better quality than the old Zire 72's paint was).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Nitro's a honky!
freakout @ 8/4/2006 8:31:01 PM # Q
Yuck. I'm getting really sick of the grey, Palm. It's a bland colour suited for bland devices and bland individuals. The Lennon is black from the pictures we've seen, why not this one too?

If they make the WM one black and the Nitro grey, I'll freak. Maybe I should send them some talcum powder and a crazy hate-filled letter in the mail?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
EdH @ 8/5/2006 10:11:07 AM # Q
freakout wrote:

Maybe I should send them some talcum powder and a crazy hate-filled letter in the mail?

Just that comment may get you a visit from the FBI. Seriously.


RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
ozz @ 8/5/2006 11:33:14 AM # Q
Doesn't the photo look suspiciously like a Blackberry?
RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
freakout @ 8/5/2006 7:56:33 PM # Q
Just that comment may get you a visit from the FBI. Seriously.

The beauty of being an Australian, my friend. They haven't wiretapped our phone companies here.

Yet.

I hope.

Hmmmm.....

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Did this Treo visit Jenny Craig?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/5/2006 8:58:40 PM # Q
> The beauty of being an Australian, my friend. They haven't
> wiretapped our phone companies here.

Ahem...

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Reply to this comment

WOW! This person is going to get caught!!

Jamerican @ 8/4/2006 7:46:49 PM # Q
Did anyone care to point out that there is a code on the device that clearly visible. That person is going to get in a lot of trouble. Really dumb.

http://www.hi-pda.com/forum/attachment.php?aid=339848&noupdate=yes

JAmerican

The leak was staged. Film at 11.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/4/2006 8:25:34 PM # Q
That person is going to get in a lot of trouble.


Don't be naive. This "leak" was staged by Palm. Unfortunately this phone (should be dubbed the Treo 500) is utterly underwhelming and will be greeted with a lot of yawns. (Compare this to the Nokia E61, etc.) I believe this retooling (AGAIN!) of the Handspring Treo 600 shows Palm is having significant problems producing a truly new smartphone. Blame OS headaches, conservative corporate strategy and missteps by Palm's new contract manufacturer. I wonder if Palm will ever realize that a brick without an antenna is STILL A BRICK.

******************************************************************

I actually just ordered a Treo 700p to use as a broadband modem (ironically I'll continue to use my Samsung i500 as my phone) after seeing the sweet deals Sprint is running through its SERO (Sprint Employee Referral Offer)

http://sprint.p.delivery.net/m/p/sprint/epc/epclanding.asp

Unlimited EVDO, 500 anytime minutes, free roaming, free callls to other Sprint phones, included long distance, free nights + weekends = $30/month

Unlimited EVDO, 1250 anytime minutes, free roaming, free callls to other Sprint phones, included long distance, free nights + weekends = $50/month

Unlimited EVDO, 2500 anytime minutes, free roaming, free callls to other Sprint phones, included long distance, free nights + weekends = $100/month

Treo 700p costs $400 with a 2 year agreement.

- Do a web search for "Sprint SERO" for more details and how to sign up. Several people are getting these rates by just calling Sprint and asking for one of the above SERO plans. The plans supposedly are only for new customers, but you can get a SERO plan added to an existing account if you ask for (demand?) it. It was a bit of a pain dealing with one clueless Sprint employee after another (their motto is "If you don't know, lie!"), but I ended up getting the cheapest plan with EVDO + phone service for less than $20/month. Not too shabby.

TVoR


RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
freakout @ 8/4/2006 11:14:10 PM # Q
Careful, Voice. The big T might just suck you in... :P

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
hkklife @ 8/4/2006 11:24:15 PM # Q
Voice;

Do you have the 700P in hand yet?

And do those plans include EVDO DUN functionality or is that just EVDO data on the Treo?

Verizon AFAIK charges $45/month to use your Treo as a wireless broadband modem....far, far too much!

P.S.
I need to figure out the best way to use my 700P as a "dial up modem at dial up speed" (14.4 etc) for when I am in a real pinch out in the boonies and need to dial into my ISP from my laptop. I can live with 14.4 for pulling down a few e-mails and checking the news. Anyone have any recommendations? PDNet? USBMobem?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
AdamaDBrown @ 8/5/2006 2:08:36 AM # Q
I need to figure out the best way to use my 700P as a "dial up modem at dial up speed" (14.4 etc) for when I am in a real pinch out in the boonies and need to dial into my ISP from my laptop. I can live with 14.4 for pulling down a few e-mails and checking the news. Anyone have any recommendations? PDNet? USBMobem?

I don't think Sprint allows that, at least when roaming. In my attempts to do this while running on Verizon coverage, it treated any kind of DUN as a data call, which isn't permitted when roaming. It's just the way Sprint is.

RE: WOW! This person is a paid advertising executive
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/5/2006 5:00:10 PM # Q
Careful, Voice. The big T might just suck you in... :P

Don't you mean "HUGE" T? Sorry, but there's no way in he11 I'd ever give up my Samsung i500 for a Treo. The i500's tiny size and superb voice quality (as good as a regular land line) will NEVER be topped in a PalmOS phone. If you've ever used one you'll realize that it has one of the highest build qualities of any phone on the market. I recently tried out a number of other phones including some Nokias,a Samsung A920 and a Samsung A900 and they all felt like crap compared to the i500. This phone still has a cult following even though it's considered ANCIENT by current phone standards, used to cost $600 and hasn't been available for a year.

http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/samsung-sph-i500/

All of my most important PalmOS apps work with the i500, so I'll be using these phones for a LONG time. The Treo is just a cheap way to get a modem and it's nice to have a backup phone with extra anytime minutes as well. $20/month for unlimited EVDO + 500 anytime minutes + free nights and weekends made the Treo 700p impossible to turn down. (I still think the buttons on my old Treo 600 were better than the 650 or 700p, though.)

Voice;

Do you have the 700P in hand yet?

Not yet (probably next week, though). It was sent out a few days ago.

And do those plans include EVDO DUN functionality or is that just EVDO data on the Treo?

Sprint is trying to charge $40/month for its new Phone As Modem plans that allow EVDO-capable phones to be tethered to a laptop as a broadband modem. As always, there are workarounds to avoid the extra charges. Heh heh heh...

[I recently disabled the lock Sprint had put on another EVDO (non-smart)phone to allow it to be used as a modem. Google is your friend. (Look up "modem NAI disable")]

Verizon AFAIK charges $45/month to use your Treo as a wireless broadband modem....far, far too much!

Ridiculous. Look at how much you spend on landline, cellphone, Internet provider, Wi-Fi access, cable, etc. I've decided enough is enough. I recently cancelled my land line, reduced my ISP to the minimum (email only) and bought the extra cheap Sprint line. I'm also planning to cancel my broadband laptop card if the Treo tethering works as planned. Total savings would be around $100/month less than what I used to pay. (It will help pay off that new Wega that you hooked me up with!)

P.S.
I need to figure out the best way to use my 700P as a "dial up modem at dial up speed" (14.4 etc) for when I am in a real pinch out in the boonies and need to dial into my ISP from my laptop. I can live with 14.4 for pulling down a few e-mails and checking the news. Anyone have any recommendations? PDNet? USBMobem?

I'd suggest you try PdaNet, but I'm not sure what the performance would be like at that slow a connection speed.

http://www.junefabrics.com/palmnet/index.php

PdaNet has great support and they're even working on providing a way to get around any restrictions Sprint might try to place on people using the 700p as a modem without the modem plan by making it appear that your data usage is coming from an application installed on the phone. Palm actually contracted to June Fabrics Technology Inc. to help create the software for DUN with the Treo. (It's kinda funny how June Fabrics also sells software that bypasses restrictions on using the Treo DUN to the fullest!) If you have a Treo, PdaNet is one of the 2 programs I'd consider to be "essential apps". (The other is Directory Assistant.)

TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
Gekko @ 8/5/2006 7:25:37 PM # Q

do they allow cell phones in mental institutions?

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
freakout @ 8/5/2006 8:00:45 PM # Q
Careful, Voice. The big T might just suck you in... :P

>> Don't you mean "HUGE" T?

Yes. I was actually referring to the gravitational pull generated by the Treo's weight - if you hold it close enough to your head, you may cross the event horizon and be trapped forever, doomed to live life with a Treo fused to the side of your face, slowly sucking your brains into its gaping maw.

Fortunately, these situations are covered by warranty.

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/5/2006 8:40:06 PM # Q
do they allow cell phones in mental institutions?

Since YOU have a Treo 650, I would presume they do. Here's a tip, Geeko: the "voices" you're hearing on your Treo 650 are only in your head. Your doctors had your Treo service deactivated when you were admitted...

Take care.

TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
twizza @ 8/9/2006 4:37:30 PM # Q
TVOR;
Neat to see your usage plan. I have been doing the same for a good whole (except just using a GSM 650 with none of the instability that many users report). Being in the DC Metro area gives me EDGE with my PDANet connection and its quite a fine experience for me.

In terms of this new device, if its less than $300 with no contract, Palm will have a hit. Simple as that. Of course, if Garnet goes up and breaks every two seconds, it will be the absolute end of Palm. But seeing how they pulled off the TX, I have a bit of faith in them.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
hkklife @ 8/9/2006 5:16:38 PM # Q
Twizza;

Have you used a 700P? It actually has more "quirks" than the TX so don't hold your breath.

I am sure they will get things ironed out with a ROM update or two for the 700P but the wait for the first one is killing me...it's not as "broken" as it's just outright laggy!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
twizza @ 8/9/2006 5:32:10 PM # Q
I have used a 700p and it was slower, but not so much so that it was a distraction. Of course, my apps and usage pattern was not able to be analyized with the 700p I played with, and so I would just have to say that you are probably right in saying that it needs a ROM update. Personally speaking, I wouldnt put it past Palm to release a Palm 680/750 that had this fixed and then a ROM update for the 700p users that matches it almost feature for speed having feature.

The TX I got for my (now ex) ladi for Christmas last year. She likes it as do I. However, she wants a wifi smartphone and not just any phone, but one made by Sony Ericcson (there is only one in the P990, but if a wifi-ed M600 comes down the pipe I will get one as fast as I could.

On the other side of things, I don't see the US way of going mobile to be the same as the rest of the world. If the marketing game plays off for Verizon and Sprint, people will take the plunge and use their mobiles as conenct-in modems for their laptops unless they really crave sitting down at a computer (aka business settings). If that plays off, then the dock for mobile devices would be faster to come a reality and we will complain like crazy when carriers button nose us for crazy data prices. I dont see the rest of the world acting like that, but the US sure does seem it will get there, and in a hurry if the selling of the Moto Q is any indication.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
twizza @ 8/9/2006 5:50:23 PM # Q
I see my reason to go WM:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/08/09/the-boy-genius-report-exclusive-cingular-treo-750-pics/

Cannot say that I will (I really dont know and the M600 is bloddy attractive) but this is a heck of an offerning if the RAM is right.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

The Treo design is REALLY showing its age
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/9/2006 11:42:08 PM # Q
TVOR;
Neat to see your usage plan. I have been doing the same for a good whole [year?] (except just using a GSM 650 with none of the instability that many users report). Being in the DC Metro area gives me EDGE with my PDANet connection and its quite a fine experience for me.

Yes 'Toine, easy EVDO access (and the potential for hackability via PdaNet should Sprint come up with a way to lock down Modem NAI workarounds with an OTA update) is pretty much the only reason I went with the Treo 700p. But compared to my tiny Samsung i500, the Treo 700p seems HUGE. I recently had to dip into my i500 stockpile after I dropped (for around the 20th time) and finally broke my original i500. As nice as it is to be able to use a phone as a broadband modem, I require that my primary phone works first + foremost as a good PHONE. Sorry, Palm.

In terms of this new device, if its less than $300 with no contract, Palm will have a hit.

I think that pricing is highly unlikely. That would be around $99 with contract and would cannibalize sales of all of Palm's other models. Palm needed a second inexpensive, phone-centric model (like any of those stylish Sony Ericssons) to bring in a COMPLETELY NEW set of customers: people that wouldn't mind having all the bonuses of running PalmOS, but who don't want a big geek-phone with a keyboard. I think the market for such a device would be HUGE. The market for big geek-phones on the other hand is finite and already getting satutated with phones from the big boys (Nokia, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, etc.) that offer better style/quality/value than anything Palm can put out.


Simple as that. Of course, if Garnet goes up and breaks every two seconds, it will be the absolute end of Palm. But seeing how they pulled off the TX, I have a bit of faith in them.

I think Handspring's work showed PalmOS 5 (Garnet) could withstand an amazing amount of hacking and still appear outwardly simple to end users. The EVDO Treo 700p takes that (incrementally) to the next level, and it would take only a little tweaking of the software to turn this into a KILLER device out of box. I don't think th TX was a big deal. The TH55 remains a MUCH better device than the TX even though it came out a couple years before the TX.

Have you used a 700P? It actually has more "quirks" than the TX so don't hold your breath.

hkklife, what problems are you having with your Treo 700p? Mine doesn't seem very "snappy" compared to my newer devices, and I'm not even pushing it that much. On the other hand, I'm used to even more delays with my ancient Samsung i500 (with its feeble 66 MHz Dragonball processor), so I don't mind. In any event, once I loaded my apps onto the Treo 700p and played around with it a bit I haven't bothered to use the PDA part of the device again. Have you noticed problems with your phone not ringing and instead sending callers directly to voice mail? W T F is wrong with Sprint?

The TX I got for my (now ex) ladi for Christmas last year. She likes it as do I. However, she wants a wifi smartphone and not just any phone, but one made by Sony Ericcson (there is only one in the P990, but if a wifi-ed M600 comes down the pipe I will get one as fast as I could.

Sorry to hear about your wife, 'Toine. You guys looked like a great couple. Yeah that Sony Ericsson looks interesting. Can't you imagine the white version with an Apple iPhone logo on it?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/06/sony-ericssons-m600-3g-tri-band-gsm-cellphone/

On the other side of things, I don't see the US way of going mobile to be the same as the rest of the world. If the marketing game plays off for Verizon and Sprint, people will take the plunge and use their mobiles as conenct-in modems for their laptops unless they really crave sitting down at a computer (aka business settings). If that plays off, then the dock for mobile devices would be faster to come a reality and we will complain like crazy when carriers button nose us for crazy data prices. I dont see the rest of the world acting like that, but the US sure does seem it will get there, and in a hurry if the selling of the Moto Q is any indication.

I agree with you. I think the carriers have started to realize that they're soon gonna be screwed once Wi-Fi takes off. People like "free" and Wi-Fi phones are going to revolutionize the cellphone industry. The idea of Skype + other VoIP software running on Wi-Fi-capable cellphones must make the carriers pee their dresses. (Skype supposedly ALREADY handles 7% of the world's long-distance minutes and the company has only been around for 3 years! In fact the first non-beta Skype software was only released 2 years ago. That's a pretty fast "paradigm shift" for a MASSIVE industry. Imagine what would happen to the auto industry if one day you invented a "magic carpet" and suddenly took away 7% of their customers? [Of course things are not quite that bad for the carriers. No doubt many Skype calls would never have been made if people actually had to pay for them, so those calls can't count as lost revenue for the carriers.] The carriers are being commoditized as "pipelines" and it's going to be hard for them to fight/undercut Wi-Fi. Even though Marty Fouts will disagree, I feel people will accept lower quality voice service if it's free/nearly free. Just look at those dumba$$ Nextel customers yelling into their sqwaking phones everywhere...

Sprint et.al. are desperately trying to grab as many customers as possible ASAP with low entry level prices + 2 year commitments and then gently squeeze them for added "features" like SMS, ringtones, screen savers. [Nickel and dime 'em once we got 'em hooked™.] The timing of Sprint's SERO plan was no accident. Sprint knows fully well that this plan is going to get them tens of thousands of "new" customers - which are numbers they can then tout to shareholders - precisely why Sprint insists SERO plans are for new accounts only. In a sign of desperation, I see Sprint actually charges customers an ONGOING FEE for a downloaded ringtone - you don't buy it, you "rent" it. Screw that. PalmOS phones aren't great for the carriers because third party apps give users too many ways to avoid buying lucrative content (ringtones, games, screensavers) from the carriers.

If I was you, unless you need a faster data connection I'd keep your Treo 650 until it breaks and then pick up a European CLIE TH55 (Bluetooth + Wi-Fi) and a small Bluetooth cellphone that can do broadband. Unfortunately, eBay (ePray you don't get fleeced) is the only place you can (occasionally) find a European TH55 in decent condition these days.


TVoR

The Treo design is REALLY showing its age
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/9/2006 11:42:08 PM # Q
TVOR;
Neat to see your usage plan. I have been doing the same for a good whole [year?] (except just using a GSM 650 with none of the instability that many users report). Being in the DC Metro area gives me EDGE with my PDANet connection and its quite a fine experience for me.

Yes 'Toine, easy EVDO access (and the potential for hackability via PdaNet should Sprint come up with a way to lock down Modem NAI workarounds with an OTA update) is pretty much the only reason I went with the Treo 700p. But compared to my tiny Samsung i500, the Treo 700p seems HUGE. I recently had to dip into my i500 stockpile after I dropped (for around the 20th time) and finally broke my original i500. As nice as it is to be able to use a phone as a broadband modem, I require that my primary phone works first + foremost as a good PHONE. Sorry, Palm.

In terms of this new device, if its less than $300 with no contract, Palm will have a hit.

I think that pricing is highly unlikely. That would be around $99 with contract and would cannibalize sales of all of Palm's other models. Palm needed a second inexpensive, phone-centric model (like any of those stylish Sony Ericssons) to bring in a COMPLETELY NEW set of customers: people that wouldn't mind having all the bonuses of running PalmOS, but who don't want a big geek-phone with a keyboard. I think the market for such a device would be HUGE. The market for big geek-phones on the other hand is finite and already getting satutated with phones from the big boys (Nokia, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, etc.) that offer better style/quality/value than anything Palm can put out.


Simple as that. Of course, if Garnet goes up and breaks every two seconds, it will be the absolute end of Palm. But seeing how they pulled off the TX, I have a bit of faith in them.

I think Handspring's work showed PalmOS 5 (Garnet) could withstand an amazing amount of hacking and still appear outwardly simple to end users. The EVDO Treo 700p takes that (incrementally) to the next level, and it would take only a little tweaking of the software to turn this into a KILLER device out of box. I don't think th TX was a big deal. The TH55 remains a MUCH better device than the TX even though it came out a couple years before the TX.

Have you used a 700P? It actually has more "quirks" than the TX so don't hold your breath.

hkklife, what problems are you having with your Treo 700p? Mine doesn't seem very "snappy" compared to my newer devices, and I'm not even pushing it that much. On the other hand, I'm used to even more delays with my ancient Samsung i500 (with its feeble 66 MHz Dragonball processor), so I don't mind. In any event, once I loaded my apps onto the Treo 700p and played around with it a bit I haven't bothered to use the PDA part of the device again. Have you noticed problems with your phone not ringing and instead sending callers directly to voice mail? W T F is wrong with Sprint?

The TX I got for my (now ex) ladi for Christmas last year. She likes it as do I. However, she wants a wifi smartphone and not just any phone, but one made by Sony Ericcson (there is only one in the P990, but if a wifi-ed M600 comes down the pipe I will get one as fast as I could.

Sorry to hear about your wife, 'Toine. You guys looked like a great couple. Yeah that Sony Ericsson looks interesting. Can't you imagine the white version with an Apple iPhone logo on it?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/06/sony-ericssons-m600-3g-tri-band-gsm-cellphone/

On the other side of things, I don't see the US way of going mobile to be the same as the rest of the world. If the marketing game plays off for Verizon and Sprint, people will take the plunge and use their mobiles as conenct-in modems for their laptops unless they really crave sitting down at a computer (aka business settings). If that plays off, then the dock for mobile devices would be faster to come a reality and we will complain like crazy when carriers button nose us for crazy data prices. I dont see the rest of the world acting like that, but the US sure does seem it will get there, and in a hurry if the selling of the Moto Q is any indication.

I agree with you. I think the carriers have started to realize that they're soon gonna be screwed once Wi-Fi takes off. People like "free" and Wi-Fi phones are going to revolutionize the cellphone industry. The idea of Skype + other VoIP software running on Wi-Fi-capable cellphones must make the carriers pee their dresses. (Skype supposedly ALREADY handles 7% of the world's long-distance minutes and the company has only been around for 3 years! In fact the first non-beta Skype software was only released 2 years ago. That's a pretty fast "paradigm shift" for a MASSIVE industry. Imagine what would happen to the auto industry if one day you invented a "magic carpet" and suddenly took away 7% of their customers? [Of course things are not quite that bad for the carriers. No doubt many Skype calls would never have been made if people actually had to pay for them, so those calls can't count as lost revenue for the carriers.] The carriers are being commoditized as "pipelines" and it's going to be hard for them to fight/undercut Wi-Fi. Even though Marty Fouts will disagree, I feel people will accept lower quality voice service if it's free/nearly free. Just look at those dumba$$ Nextel customers yelling into their sqwaking phones everywhere...

Sprint et.al. are desperately trying to grab as many customers as possible ASAP with low entry level prices + 2 year commitments and then gently squeeze them for added "features" like SMS, ringtones, screen savers. [Nickel and dime 'em once we got 'em hooked™.] The timing of Sprint's SERO plan was no accident. Sprint knows fully well that this plan is going to get them tens of thousands of "new" customers - which are numbers they can then tout to shareholders - precisely why Sprint insists SERO plans are for new accounts only. In a sign of desperation, I see Sprint actually charges customers an ONGOING FEE for a downloaded ringtone - you don't buy it, you "rent" it. Screw that. PalmOS phones aren't great for the carriers because third party apps give users too many ways to avoid buying lucrative content (ringtones, games, screensavers) from the carriers.

If I was you, unless you need a faster data connection I'd keep your Treo 650 until it breaks and then pick up a European CLIE TH55 (Bluetooth + Wi-Fi) and a small Bluetooth cellphone that can do broadband. Unfortunately, eBay (ePray you don't get fleeced) is the only place you can (occasionally) find a European TH55 in decent condition these days.


TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
twizza @ 8/11/2006 4:09:07 PM # Q
I am sticking withe the 650, only because as a whole solution for me, there isnt much else that I really feel like taking the time towards. If Nitro went 64MB and UMTS, then i'd jump really fast as 2.5G is here in the DC Metro and I'd like to play.

The M600 has been put aside on my end, no US UMTS compatablity, or EDGE makes it a no go. But if Sony does a US version, then I would consider it again.

I think Palm wouldnt mind doing a $99 with contract Treo ONLY if it is spec-ed lower than the 700p. It would sell, and canabolize the other Treo if only to get into more folks hands, which is really want Palm needs. They need people new to come on, not so much the old people to hold on.

If any Treo goes wifi, the balance of telephony would have already fully went away from the carrier based model. Palm wouldnt swing that bat unless it were already going that way. They dont play the in front game, but play just slightly off speed and usually right on target with the back side of the wave of the 7th inning stretch.

The i500 was slick. I agree with how you feel about it. Add the good stuff from the Treo 650 into it and you have a perfect smarpthone hands down.

Last thing, wasnt married, but was looking towards that way; will have to sit solo for a while and just let life run. Maybe if there is another then I will be entrenched in another OS (very possible).

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
hkklife @ 8/11/2006 6:40:39 PM # Q
Voice;

When running a BONE STOCK configuration, the 700P is quite snappy. The extra DBCache & heap memory is readily apparent. I haven't done any benchmarks but a stock 700P feels as snappy--if not a tad bit faster--than a bare TX. It also reboots pretty quickly.

Now, as SOON as I began adding apps to my 700P (my boss and two people I work with also have Verizon 700Ps so I am not alone in this) it begins to get laggy.

With more than a half-dozen messages stored in the (admittedly VERY nifty and well done by anyone's standards) threaded SMS application, things get even laggier.

Having more than two POP accounts in VersaMail also slows things down and makes for occasional database corruption. Still I can live with it since it's still the most stable version of VM I've used thus far.

But the worst culprit for lag on the 700P is the phone application it self.

Here's an actual example of what happened to me the other day. This occurs at least three or four times per week:

I was talking with person A on my Treo. They asked me for person B's contact info. I said I had to hunt down B's business card to get it before remembering I had entered it into my Treo a few weeks ago. A had to go and said he was going to turn off his phone for a while and for me to call back and leave a voicemail with the contact info.

I hung up and redialed A. While leaving the voicemail I tried to put the 700P into speakerphone mode and go into contacts and look up the info. I tried to activate the speaker with the 5-way navigator. Nothing. I tried to activate it with the touchscreen button. Nothing. I was rambling away (the VM was still recording) hoping the 700P would unfreeze and let me get to Contacts. Nothing. Finally I gave up and stammered a hasty apology to A that I'd have to call him back with the info. I pushed the red button to hang up the call. Nothing. I pushed it again. Nothing. I pushed "hang up" on the screen. Nothing. I took the stylus out and reset the Treo to end the call. After it finsihed restarting I had a voicemail from someone else who had been trying to call me during the entire ordeal above. I almost smashed the 700P in frustration at all of this.

Anything like the above is exacerbated when using a BT headset. I've almost given up using my headset entirely on the 700P due to the lack of voice dialing and the lag/hiccups.

Even worse is the guy who is using the 700P as his main line for his small business. He half-jokingly blames me for the people he is always hanging up on by accident.

I've been able to remedy this problem very slightly by ejecting the SD card if I am expecting a very important call. I am also running a pretty minimal application load on my 700P. ALL of the apps I am using have been either officially OK'd for the 700P or unofficially OK'd by reliable sources. I am not using any hacks whatsoever.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
freakout @ 8/11/2006 10:06:36 PM # Q
^^ hk, that's damn weird. I know that in the last few months as I've packed my 650 to the gills, it now takes a loooooooong time to boot up. Once I'm in though, it's very snappy, incl. the Phone app. No delays in the SMS client either - except on first open after a boot, when it takes a few extra seconds. And this is all while running PalmRevolt and Fontsmoother, which you would expect to have a noticeably deleterious effect on speed.

As a matter of fact, the only things that *really* slow it down are:

- crossfading in Ptunes. When turned on to a length of 5 seconds or more, it takes AGES to exit the app.

- Avantgo with data stored on the SD card. Again, it's really slow to exit.

- Call conferencing. When first initiating a conference call, the lag can be very pronounced. And dangerous - you can find youself pressing the same button twice, thinking it didn't register your first tap, and then suddenly it catches up with you and you don't know what the hell it's doing.

There's got to be a reason the 700p loses speed. Sprint or Verizon-specific issues? An EVDO hardware issue maybe? Perhaps Palm's lack of high-speed radio experience has bitten them in the ass?

I'm confused. Hopefully the next unlocked GSM PalmOS Treo will retain my 650's snappiness...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/11/2006 11:21:30 PM # Q
Voice;

When running a BONE STOCK configuration, the 700P is quite snappy. The extra DBCache & heap memory is readily apparent. I haven't done any benchmarks but a stock 700P feels as snappy--if not a tad bit faster--than a bare TX. It also reboots pretty quickly.

Now, as SOON as I began adding apps to my 700P (my boss and two people I work with also have Verizon 700Ps so I am not alone in this) it begins to get laggy.

I wouldn't know about its stock performance. I spent the first day with my Treo 700p loading fresh copies of around 100 apps onto it. All into RAM. As Tapwave showed with the Zodiac 2, you can never have too much RealRAM™.

With more than a half-dozen messages stored in the (admittedly VERY nifty and well done by anyone's standards) threaded SMS application, things get even laggier.

I don't use SMS but the new SMS app does appear to be very well designed. Simple to use, easy insertion of voice or photo maessages, THAT'S what a communication device should be all about.

Having more than two POP accounts in VersaMail also slows things down and makes for occasional database corruption. Still I can live with it since it's still the most stable version of VM I've used thus far.

Why the he11 can't Palm get something as basic as email done right? They should be embarassed by how unreliable VersaMail has been over the years. If you were a businessperson depending on your email would you go with a bulletproof Blackberry or a buggy Treo? The Treo should JUST PLAIN WORK out of the box. No excuses. Even one crash of the basic programs is too many if your job's on the line.

But the worst culprit for lag on the 700P is the phone application it self.

One of the many reasons why I would never use the Treo 700p as my primary cellphone.

Here's an actual example of what happened to me the other day. This occurs at least three or four times per week:

I was talking with person A on my Treo. They asked me for person B's contact info. I said I had to hunt down B's business card to get it before remembering I had entered it into my Treo a few weeks ago. A had to go and said he was going to turn off his phone for a while and for me to call back and leave a voicemail with the contact info.

I hung up and redialed A. While leaving the voicemail I tried to put the 700P into speakerphone mode and go into contacts and look up the info. I tried to activate the speaker with the 5-way navigator. Nothing. I tried to activate it with the touchscreen button. Nothing. I was rambling away (the VM was still recording) hoping the 700P would unfreeze and let me get to Contacts. Nothing. Finally I gave up and stammered a hasty apology to A that I'd have to call him back with the info. I pushed the red button to hang up the call. Nothing. I pushed it again. Nothing. I pushed "hang up" on the screen. Nothing. I took the stylus out and reset the Treo to end the call. After it finsihed restarting I had a voicemail from someone else who had been trying to call me during the entire ordeal above. I almost smashed the 700P in frustration at all of this.

Anything like the above is exacerbated when using a BT headset. I've almost given up using my headset entirely on the 700P due to the lack of voice dialing and the lag/hiccups.

Even worse is the guy who is using the 700P as his main line for his small business. He half-jokingly blames me for the people he is always hanging up on by accident.

I've been able to remedy this problem very slightly by ejecting the SD card if I am expecting a very important call. I am also running a pretty minimal application load on my 700P. ALL of the apps I am using have been either officially OK'd for the 700P or unofficially OK'd by reliable sources. I am not using any hacks whatsoever.

Powerusers like you and people that need dependable phones really should stick with the 2 device route: a small, RELIABLE, high quality broadband-capable Bluetooth cellphone and a high quality PDA like the CLIE TH55. I briefly tried the sngle device route a few years ago with the Treo 600 and it simply didn't work for my tastes. Sometimes convergence demands too high a price...

TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/11/2006 11:21:30 PM # Q
Voice;

When running a BONE STOCK configuration, the 700P is quite snappy. The extra DBCache & heap memory is readily apparent. I haven't done any benchmarks but a stock 700P feels as snappy--if not a tad bit faster--than a bare TX. It also reboots pretty quickly.

Now, as SOON as I began adding apps to my 700P (my boss and two people I work with also have Verizon 700Ps so I am not alone in this) it begins to get laggy.

I wouldn't know about its stock performance. I spent the first day with my Treo 700p loading fresh copies of around 100 apps onto it. All into RAM. As Tapwave showed with the Zodiac 2, you can never have too much RealRAM™.

With more than a half-dozen messages stored in the (admittedly VERY nifty and well done by anyone's standards) threaded SMS application, things get even laggier.

I don't use SMS but the new SMS app does appear to be very well designed. Simple to use, easy insertion of voice or photo maessages, THAT'S what a communication device should be all about.

Having more than two POP accounts in VersaMail also slows things down and makes for occasional database corruption. Still I can live with it since it's still the most stable version of VM I've used thus far.

Why the he11 can't Palm get something as basic as email done right? They should be embarassed by how unreliable VersaMail has been over the years. If you were a businessperson depending on your email would you go with a bulletproof Blackberry or a buggy Treo? The Treo should JUST PLAIN WORK out of the box. No excuses. Even one crash of the basic programs is too many if your job's on the line.

But the worst culprit for lag on the 700P is the phone application it self.

One of the many reasons why I would never use the Treo 700p as my primary cellphone.

Here's an actual example of what happened to me the other day. This occurs at least three or four times per week:

I was talking with person A on my Treo. They asked me for person B's contact info. I said I had to hunt down B's business card to get it before remembering I had entered it into my Treo a few weeks ago. A had to go and said he was going to turn off his phone for a while and for me to call back and leave a voicemail with the contact info.

I hung up and redialed A. While leaving the voicemail I tried to put the 700P into speakerphone mode and go into contacts and look up the info. I tried to activate the speaker with the 5-way navigator. Nothing. I tried to activate it with the touchscreen button. Nothing. I was rambling away (the VM was still recording) hoping the 700P would unfreeze and let me get to Contacts. Nothing. Finally I gave up and stammered a hasty apology to A that I'd have to call him back with the info. I pushed the red button to hang up the call. Nothing. I pushed it again. Nothing. I pushed "hang up" on the screen. Nothing. I took the stylus out and reset the Treo to end the call. After it finsihed restarting I had a voicemail from someone else who had been trying to call me during the entire ordeal above. I almost smashed the 700P in frustration at all of this.

Anything like the above is exacerbated when using a BT headset. I've almost given up using my headset entirely on the 700P due to the lack of voice dialing and the lag/hiccups.

Even worse is the guy who is using the 700P as his main line for his small business. He half-jokingly blames me for the people he is always hanging up on by accident.

I've been able to remedy this problem very slightly by ejecting the SD card if I am expecting a very important call. I am also running a pretty minimal application load on my 700P. ALL of the apps I am using have been either officially OK'd for the 700P or unofficially OK'd by reliable sources. I am not using any hacks whatsoever.

Powerusers like you and people that need dependable phones really should stick with the 2 device route: a small, RELIABLE, high quality broadband-capable Bluetooth cellphone and a high quality PDA like the CLIE TH55. I briefly tried the sngle device route a few years ago with the Treo 600 and it simply didn't work for my tastes. Sometimes convergence demands too high a price...

TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/14/2006 10:18:02 PM # Q
Now, as SOON as I began adding apps to my 700P (my boss and two people I work with also have Verizon 700Ps so I am not alone in this) it begins to get laggy.

With more than a half-dozen messages stored in the (admittedly VERY nifty and well done by anyone's standards) threaded SMS application, things get even laggier.

I'd suggest you try installing Resco Locker + see if you can lock Versamail, the Messaging app + any of your other essential apps.

Having more than two POP accounts in VersaMail also slows things down and makes for occasional database corruption. Still I can live with it since it's still the most stable version of VM I've used thus far.

Yikes. Have you tried Chatteremail?

But the worst culprit for lag on the 700P is the phone application it self.

If you insist on keeping the Treo 700p, save yourself a LOT of headaches by picking up a good, small GSM Sony Ericsson or Nokia dumbphone and use it for voice calls instead of the Treo. (If you're on Sprint the EVDO-capable, Bluetooth Samsung A920 is probably your best bet, but I'm not too impressed with its voice quality and it's a slippery-as-hell fingerprint magnet as well. Sony Ericsson made just one CDMA phone (the infamous T608) before they abandoned that market, but the phone was crippled by buggy software. Of course, if you do go back to a 2 device setup then you might as well also get a good PDA like the CLIE TH55 to go with the dumbphone...

I tried using Versamail over the weekend and made the mistake of trusting it to delete a downloaded message off the server, thinking I could then forward the message from my Treo on to another account if I needed a copy of the message on my laptop. Well lo and behold: Versamail refused to accept my forwarding email address when I linked to it from my address book, saying the address was missing a bracket ">" at the end! Great. Even when I manually typed in the address it was rejected. This is the kind of aggravation that prevents users from being able to trust the Treo. But if you can't trust that the device won't suddenly fail you, then the device suddenly becomes useless. The ONLY thing I trust the Treo 700p to do is work as a modem and a non-essential backup PDA/MP3 player/phone. Not very high expectations for a $600 phone...

TVoR

Treo 650 on NPR
cervezas @ 8/14/2006 10:50:34 PM # Q
Was anyone else listening to "Whad'ya Know" on NPR Sunday when the guy with the Treo 650 called into the show? It was so sad. All the other people are calling in on their perfectly clear mobiles and this one guy comes on with this distant-sounding scratchy voice. The conversation went like this:

Host: "What kind of phone do you have?"

Caller: "What?"

Host: "What phone are you using?"

Caller: "What?"

Host: "WHAT PHONE DO YOU HAVE, SO I KNOW NOT TO BUY ONE?!"

Caller: (cheerfully) "Treo 650!"

----

Sigh.

Oh well. At least my Samsung i500 still sounds great. No NFVS lag, and half the size of the Treo, too!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
freakout @ 8/15/2006 3:30:54 AM # Q
^^ Not to be pedantic(al) but that could have just as easily been a problem with the network, rather than the Treo. And not to sound like a broken record, but I've never had any quality complaints with mine, EVER.

As a matter of fact, the proof is in the pud: dial +61422976905 and listen to my voicemail message. Recorded via my Treo 650 speakerphone from my house. Sounds just fine to me...

I'm going to regret posting my phone number on the internet, aren't I?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
SeldomVisitor @ 8/15/2006 5:53:56 AM # Q
Uh huh...SURE it's YOUR phone number...uh huh...

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
freakout @ 8/15/2006 6:15:20 AM # Q
Just can't beat internet paranoia, can ya... Damned if you offer proof and damned if you don't. I was just planning to hang up on any international calls.

(or use CallFilter to divert all international calls and unknown numbers straight to Voicemail... Exactly the kind of useful program that makes a Treo worth having. Yet another reason why Treo beats the pants off every other phone on the market and makes them perform dirty acts on each other for its own perverse amusement. Go Treo! :P )

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
cervezas @ 8/15/2006 1:44:03 PM # Q
Yet another reason why Treo beats the pants off every other phone on the market and makes them perform dirty acts on each other for its own perverse amusement.

Sounds like Tim's new "Abu Ghraib Special Edition Treo" arrived in the mail.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

hkklife: Did Resco Locker help?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/17/2006 11:12:04 PM # Q
With more than a half-dozen messages stored in the (admittedly VERY nifty and well done by anyone's standards) threaded SMS application, things get even laggier.

I'd suggest you try installing Resco Locker + see if you can lock Versamail, the Messaging app + any of your other essential apps.

>>>Yet another reason why Treo beats the pants off every other phone on the market and makes them perform dirty acts on each other for its own perverse amusement.

Sounds like Tim's new "Abu Ghraib Special Edition Treo" arrived in the mail.

I hear there are photos of Colligan in drag posing with prisioners of the Windows Mobile platform. Disgusting...

TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
freakout @ 8/18/2006 8:43:49 PM # Q
It also comes with a smartphone-sized dog leash and riding crop. So cute!

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: WOW! This person is going to get flogged!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/18/2006 9:41:11 PM # Q
Black leather special edition Treo?

Break me off a piece of that!

TVoR

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
hkklife @ 8/18/2006 11:36:25 PM # Q
Voice;

No it didn't help. If it did it was so minor that it was not noticable. Seeing as how it was last updated in Feb '06 do you think Resco Locker is even 700P aware?

The lag is essentially tied the camera/camcorder apps (unsurprisingly), SMS (huge, huge lag), VersaMail (not too bad) and Blazer (of course) in addition to the phone app.

Games and the rest of the bundled PIM apps & other 3rd party apps behave as normal. So it's basically Palm's stuff tied into the wireless functionality of the phone (data & voice) aside from the camera/photo/camcorder app but that's to be expected from a multimedia app.

Another interesting Treo-ism is that I used SplashPhoto (most recent registered version) and with its internal photo-taking capabilities I got slightly clearer looking pictures than the ones I snapped with Palm's Photo app. Coincidence? I think not. The low light performance was also a tad better as well. Is Palm intentionally crippling the 700P/W's camera? SpashPhoto is slower to process the captured image (at the highest quality/res settings) but they ARE better.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/19/2006 12:33:07 AM # Q
Voice;

No it didn't help. If it did it was so minor that it was not noticable. Seeing as how it was last updated in Feb '06 do you think Resco Locker is even 700P aware?

Sorry to hear that. I don't know if Resco Locker is 700p-aware, but you might want to send Resco a quick email. Resco is one of the best developers I've come across (both Windows Mobile and PalmOS) and they are very responsive to their customers. There are other memory locking apps around, but given the high quality of Resco's other apps, I'd stick with them if possible.

The lag is essentially tied the camera/camcorder apps (unsurprisingly), SMS (huge, huge lag), VersaMail (not too bad) and Blazer (of course) in addition to the phone app.

Games and the rest of the bundled PIM apps & other 3rd party apps behave as normal. So it's basically Palm's stuff tied into the wireless functionality of the phone (data & voice) aside from the camera/photo/camcorder app but that's to be expected from a multimedia app.

Another interesting Treo-ism is that I used SplashPhoto (most recent registered version) and with its internal photo-taking capabilities I got slightly clearer looking pictures than the ones I snapped with Palm's Photo app. Coincidence? I think not. The low light performance was also a tad better as well. Is Palm intentionally crippling the 700P/W's camera? SpashPhoto is slower to process the captured image (at the highest quality/res settings) but they ARE better.

Interesting. I loaded the latest version of Resco Photo Viewer onto both my Treo 700p and a Zodiac 2. I then loaded the exact same folder of photos onto each device. The Treo 700p seems to choke on scrolling through the photos, while the Zodiac 2 is fairly snappy. RealRAM™ rules! On regular use all apps on the Zodiac 2 display IMMEDIATELY (one of the nicest things about using PalmOS PDAs), while the Treo 700p seems to hesitate before loading the app. Annoying.

I see the Treos are also as slippery as ever and the voice quality STILL sucks. The buttons on the 700p are worse than the Treo 600. But EVDO is great, and PdaNet has been fairly stable, so I'll be keeping the phone for use as a wireless modem.

TVoR


RE: WOW! This person is going to get caught!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/21/2006 10:09:02 PM # Q
hkklife, you might want to email Resco + find out if they feel Resco Locker is/will be Treo 700p-compatible.

TVoR

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Can it replace my Treo 650 GSM?

asiayeah @ 8/4/2006 9:44:49 PM # Q
So, is it going to be an upgrade for my Treo 650 GSM?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Can it replace my Treo 650 GSM?
lolongan @ 8/5/2006 1:24:25 AM # Q
I ask myself the same question and I'm not so sure.
If it is just for some more MB of RAM and an antenna less, why bother ? Unless this device will be 3G/UMTS and/or Wifi compatible, I think I will have no choice than to switch to WM or Symbian, with Palm or other manufacturer
RE: Can it replace my Treo 650 GSM?
jamesgood72 @ 8/6/2006 8:39:09 AM # Q
I think an incremental upgrade would be good. Slightly thinner, a lot more memory, all sounds good to me. I love the 650 as it is, slightly better (and no worse!) would be great. Some usability upgrades in the software (and reliability), would be very nice.

Faster data would be great - that's what I'm not clear on with this model. I guess we don't know if it's UMTS or not?

As for Wifi... I actually have no need for that at all. I have many Wifi computers in my house, but I don't see myself using it with my Treo. The whole point about browsing and email on the Treo is that you can do it from anywhere. I had a Sony UX50, and the Wifi was useful occasionally, but probably only because it didn't have a GSM connection. I'm surprised I see so many people requesting Wifi.

-James.

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Boring.

VampireLestat @ 8/5/2006 5:08:08 AM # Q
Boring.

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You boys/girls seen THESE?

SeldomVisitor @ 8/5/2006 11:39:07 AM # Q
RE: You boys/girls seen THESE?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/5/2006 7:25:20 PM # Q
The projected keyboard idea would never work for most people. No tactile response and I enevision a shiteload of Worker's Compensation : "repetetive tap injuries" occurring. Tapping a hard, unyielding desktop thousands of times per day will probably cause nerve or vascular damage in the fingertips. Imagine the class action lawsuits already being written up by the ambulance chasers here in Clafornia!

TVoR

Reply to this comment

Too common design

loriot @ 8/6/2006 7:01:11 AM # Q
The pictures are very disappointing for me. In the history Palm was always good to make great looking hardware, but now it is gone. This device just looks like 1 out of 100. It could be a Nokia, Blackberry, HP or whatever.
Only the OS is right.

)c8 Andreas

Reply to this comment

The best?

Zelos @ 8/6/2006 7:11:18 PM # Q
I am seriously worried about the future of Palm. They've got smartphone competitors making phones like the Nokia E61, SE M600i & P990, high end normal mobiles encroaching on their territory from below and their only answer seems to be very little change: the 700 and this don't seem significantly different in size or form factor, and are still saddled with PalmOS.

I was actually quite excited about this lowrider phone when I saw the first blurry photos a while back but now - having finally retired my Treo 650 after receiving a phone call crashed the damn thing for the final time - I just don't care.



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Great now Brighthand is speculating there's no stylus for Nitro!

craigdts @ 8/7/2006 1:49:47 PM # Q
LOL. the pictures clearly show a stylus. I mean, where in the heck did that idea come from?!?! There were additional pics that clearly showed a stylus on the back.

Treonauts has the 2 additional pics on their blog. Put brighthands rumor and ideas to rest.

http://blog.treonauts.com/

Reply to this comment

No antenna ?

m130fullbutcontent @ 8/7/2006 7:30:27 PM # Q
I think Palm are just following the market trend for not having an antenna - how many current mobile phones have an external antenna now ? Very very few. There must be a good reason for tha- and I think that is simply that most people don't want them now.

Me , I don't want an antenna /ariel sticking out of a mobile phone. They take up space, get in the way and get broken off too easily.

Me I like the look of this Treo 'Nitro'- why did it take so long to make one with an internal ariel/antenna ? (Not sure myself but suspect it's down to cost - I heard that one of the first really efficient internal antennie designed for mobile phone made someone a whole lot of money as it was not easy to design/engineer. Anyone know more about that ? - Maybe Palm didn't want to pay royalties on someone elses patent for such a spec?)

All I'd like now is one of these WITHOUT a camera...

(and I agree it does resemble a Blackberry - or is that a 'crashberry' if one I had from work is anything to go by....but that I think is just down to an evolution for such devices according to the function and ergonomics needed to go with them.)

Just my 5pence/9cents... :-)

IIIe>IIIxe>m125>m130>T3>TE>T3>?

Jesus said : 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'
John's Gospel ch. 14 vs 6, NIV

Reply to this comment

What is that?

gulmatan @ 8/8/2006 4:11:44 AM # Q
Hi all,

On the first photo--left side with some sort of blue thingy sticking out of the side, what is that blue thing?

Sharp Wizard 6500> Palm m500> m515> Tungsten T> Zire 71> T|E> T|X

RE: What is that?
seamus z harper @ 8/8/2006 11:02:06 PM # Q
That would be the SD card.

I'd also like to see a better view of the top--see if Palm's kept the SIM card slot the same. Works fine IMO, and I like the fact that you don't have to take the battery out to get at the SIM.

RE: What is that?
freakout @ 8/9/2006 4:50:04 AM # Q
Can't remember where I read it, but apparently the SIM slot is now on the side as well with the SD slot.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: What is that?
hkklife @ 8/9/2006 12:35:47 PM # Q
Has anyone been able to confirm that it is still a full sized SD slot and not, in fact, a mini or micro SD slot?


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Getting warmer.

dagwud @ 8/8/2006 2:26:38 PM # Q
So Palm "lost" the antenna. Now, if they'd lose the thumboard, I'd consider opening my wallet.

--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???
RE: Getting warmer.
vwykchr @ 8/9/2006 2:48:57 PM # Q
Yeah - my wishlist for the next-gen Treo family is something like the iMate Kjam - 320*480 screen with slide-out keypad/board. Anybody from Palm/HTC listening? (But I'd still take the Nitro if it has 3G!!!)

My only gripe with the Nitro - if it only has a 0.3MP camera & no 3G - Palm is making non-WM Treo's out to be the lower spec'd than the WM Treo's... If you want an entry level Treo, get the Palm OS (or Access if you prefer...) one. If you want 3G and a decent camera, get the WM one...

HS VD, M105, M505, T|T, T3, T5, Treo 650 & LD

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