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Tapwave Discontinues Zodiac Business

Tapwave, makers of the Zodiac Palm OS gaming handheld, have discontinued their Zodiac handheld business according to a posting on the company's website.

The posting states,

We are sorry to inform you that the Zodiac business was discontinued and service and support are no longer available as of July 25th 2005.

Resources that may still be helpful to you can be found at http://www.tapwave.com/resources and http://www.tapwave.com/support. This includes links to websites where you can find a variety of useful tips and information as well as purchase e-books, Audible books and magazines, Palm OS applications, Zodiac skins, and third party Tapwave Certified games.

Additional products, acessories, and game cards may still be available from COMPUSA, Fry's, and J&R while supplies last.

We thank you for your past interest and support and apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. If you have an outstanding claim with the company, Ueker and Associates will be contacting you shortly.

Sincerely,
The Tapwave Team

Tapwave first introduced the Zodiac handheld in the fall of 2003.

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Another one bites the dust...

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/28/2005 12:41:15 AM # Q
Liquidation of Tapwave assets coming soon.

$149 Zodiac 2?

I'll take two, please.

The only surprise in that anyone out there is still so clueless that they think this was a surprise...

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Gone. Done. Played out.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/28/2005 12:47:57 AM # Q
Strike 1: Tapwave's business model simply didn't make sense.

Strike 2: They never made a conservative Tungsten E-shaped model for professionals using the specs of the Zodiac 2.

Strike 3: Sony PSP (and to a lesser extent, Nintendo DS).

What a waste of so much talent and money! If only Palm could have used Tapwave's software, engineering and better quality manufacturing, maybe PalmOS would be in a lot better shape as a platform these days.

Much like HandEra, Tapwave offered advanced hardware specs and solid software, yet somehow remained utterly clueless about marketing, even to the bitter end. The desperate attempt to reinvent themselves as a media player was embarassing to watch. The irony is that a Zodiac 2 + The Core Pocket Media Player (can directly access the Zod's ATI videocard for video playback!) + a couple 1 GB SD cards absolutely DESTROYS Palm's new LifeDrive in terms usability.


The PalmOS platform is reeling on the ropes and the K.O. punch would be an announcement of a Windows Mobile Treo. Any. Day. Now.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 12:48:24 AM # Q
If you really want to see something funny, some idiot in 1src's forum believes that this is hoax created by hackers! Oh, ouch...my stomach is in pain from incessant laughter.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Another one bites the dust...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/28/2005 1:14:22 AM # Q
;-O

Really Bad People did this.

J.K. probably will blame you...


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Another one bites the dust...
hkklife @ 7/28/2005 1:15:53 AM # Q
T5 formfactor with Zod 2 specs. While they are at it, Tapwave should've added user-selectable Graffiti 1/2 (use the money to license the G1 libraries from Xerox instead of that lame shovelware racing game that came with the Zod) and an option to turn OFF the lame Tapwave launcher and revert to the BONE STOCK PALM OS5 launcher. Oh yeah, have an internal stylus silo.
Bingo. That would've saved Tapwave or at least bought 'em another year.

Even minus the analog stick and one of the SD slots, such a device would've been a KILLER machine in every sense of the word.

Did anyone ever think a year ago that the lame duck T5 would (patched) be left holding the title of the best Palm device currently in production/on the market? Folks, it's getting grim...

Btw, Tapwave's perpetual "spring has sprung" promotion/motiff on their website kinda gave me some signals something was dead wrong with 'em...here we are sweltering in the brown grass of late July and they are still showing the green grass of spring on their site.

P.S. I wonder what'll happen to Scott & the gang at Tapland? How long will the lights stay on at Tapwave.com? I guess no one wanted to partner up with them to license "Zodiac" technology for next-gen devices!?!

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 1:18:06 AM # Q
No, he'll write some longwinded article on "Why Tapwave really isn't dead".

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Another one bites the dust...
jkirvin @ 7/28/2005 1:19:06 AM # Q
Nice one, Kent. I'll remember this when you try to say you don't attack me out of nowhere.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
hkklife @ 7/28/2005 1:24:18 AM # Q
Anyone remember when Tapwave released that 2nd wi-fi SDIO card driver...the one w/ improved support for the wi-fi + 256mb Sandisk cards? I called that, alongside the freebie Palmsource e-mail client, Tapwave's farewell gift to the community and their last gasp. When the damm car charger from Tapwave never materialized (and the hard case was barely produced) I knew the writing was on the wall. Oh yeah, playable game demos disappearing from their site months and months ago didn't help matters at all.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 1:31:23 AM # Q
>> "The PalmOS platform is reeling on the ropes and the K.O. punch would be an announcement of a Windows Mobile Treo. Any. Day. Now."

I'm afraid to set my Treo down too hard for fear that vibrations will travel through the earth's crust, making their way to PalmSource headquarters, collapsing the shaky foundation they set upon. Seriously, is there anything further that could make this platform look any more hopeless? I'm beginning to think Microsoft is actually paying PalmSource and its licensees to implode. It's all too perfect.

You can bet Windows Mobile based products are in the pipeline at Palm. Their only concern now is offering what the customer wants, not in cultish platform ideology. Palm's money is in selling hardware, not PalmOS..especially not a DYING PalmOS.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Another one bites the dust...
hkklife @ 7/28/2005 1:46:05 AM # Q
It's funny how it's basically Palm Inc's (the old Palm Inc. under Yankowski, Benhamou, Bradley & co. ) fault that we/they are in this mess now...and they will be the ONLY ones to survive the maelstrom (semi) intact...then hitch their buggy to the Micro$oft wagon. They're like ****roaches--and everyone's gotta love a survivor, right?


RE: Another one bites the dust...
AdamaDBrown @ 7/28/2005 2:06:35 AM # Q
Jeff, after the ludicrously immature way you've been behaving towards others lately, you are the LAST person who can claim Marquess of Queensbury rules.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 2:19:24 AM # Q
Oh my, the lunacy has spread to this forum as well. Jeff, after dealing with your irrational, and frankly bizarre, behaviour on 1src, I'll just repeat what I said to you on that forum; misinterpretations on your part do not equal lies on my part. You still refuse to admit wrongdoing. You accused me of something I never said...words I never uttered. I used "Not quite" in the context of "Not quite the whole story", which was completely accurate. And I made that clear..several times. But you insisted on behaving like a moody juvenile, falsely accusing me of lies. If anyone is guilty of bending the truth it's you, in the way you attempted to portray PalmOS outselling Windows Mobile by a wide margin while hiding the real story. I called you on that, and it made you mad. You even accused me, in classic McCarthy form, of having a "hidden agenda". Don't listen to Kent, he may be one of them! Very mature.

Honestly, I don't know what your game is, whether you really are panhandling for a job at Palm, or just a foaming zealot, but frakly I don't find your behavior charming. You often criticise PIC as a place of bullies, but you seem behave that way yourself at times. I suggest the doctor take some of his own medical advice.



-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Another one bites the dust...
abosco @ 7/28/2005 2:51:27 AM # Q
It's a shame. They made a few nice products and then that was it.

So much potential. So much RAM! At a time when it was sorely needed!

I recall a few weeks ago there was an article stating Tapwave was shifting the company's focus, and someone started a thread stating companies make their boldest statements just before going out. Gekko or Voice Of A Prick said it. Either one, it doesn't matter. Good call.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + T637

RE: Another one bites the dust...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/28/2005 3:01:57 AM # Q
Kirvin went off the deep end a long time ago. He has ZERO credibility in the PalmOS community and his constant threats to try and silence those who disagree with his bizarre statements seem to be getting more and more dramatic as time goes by.

This thread at a different site was downright creepy:

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92694&page=6&pp=15


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Another one bites the dust...
sr4 @ 7/28/2005 3:12:26 AM # Q
Foofighter said about Kirvin:
You often criticize PIC as a place of bullies, but you seem behave that way yourself at times. I suggest the doctor take some of his own medical advice.

I'm sure after the embarrassing exposure of Jeff's lack of insight on his own website, he's particularly touchy of being challenged or having to prove his statements. He/Reggie deleted every factual or insightfully post I made at 1src in an apparent attempt to protect their users from the truth.

Pity they cant protect PalmSource licensees in the same manner.

Surur

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Scott R @ 7/28/2005 10:58:47 AM # Q
T5 formfactor with Zod 2 specs. While they are at it, Tapwave should've added user-selectable Graffiti 1/2 (use the money to license the G1 libraries from Xerox instead of that lame shovelware racing game that came with the Zod) and an option to turn OFF the lame Tapwave launcher and revert to the BONE STOCK PALM OS5 launcher. Oh yeah, have an internal stylus silo.
Bingo. That would've saved Tapwave or at least bought 'em another year.

I disagree. That would have been another me-too PDA. Supposedly sales of those are declining. Would it have been a good idea for them to create something like that *in addition* to the landscape-focused Zodiac model to appeal to the stuffy PDA traditionalists? Sure.

I'm also curious about the comments I see here from a couple of people criticizing Tapwave's "business model." Please clarify. Tapwave's business model seemed halfway decent to me. Had they gotten huge gaming companies to sign on and sell through the Tapwave store, they would have gotten recurring revenue from those sales. Tapwave's problem can be summed up as either a bad marketing team, not enough money to market it properly, or both.

As for what's to become of Tapland...you'll have to wait. I'm not sure myself. And I haven't written anything on the front page about this yet as I'm still trying to sort out the details (though I suspect that I've gotten all the info that I will get). And yes, believe it or not, Tapwave may indeed *not* be dead. It's worth noting that their web site states that "the Zodiac business" (rather than "Tapwave") has been shut down. I suspect that they're in the process of trying to find a buyer for their intellectual property. Ideally, someone with deep pockets would come along and re-release the Zodiac (and some next-gen models), but I too think that's wishful thinking. More likely, someone like Palm or PalmSource will pick up bits and pieces (and possibly people) and integrate it into their own future projects.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 11:16:16 AM # Q
>> "More likely, someone like Palm or PalmSource will pick up bits and pieces (and possibly people) and integrate it into their own future projects."

You have GOT to be kidding me? PalmSource isn't in a position to pick up ANYTHING or anyone, except perhaps rubbish along the highway. As for Palm..why would they want this company? The Zodiac was unsuccessful. Buying them up and slapping a new brand name on the device won't make it anymore popular.

Second, Tapwave is going out of business. Ueker and Associates handles bankruptcy cleanup. They're finished.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Another one bites the dust...
JarJar @ 7/28/2005 11:20:53 AM # Q
The problem is not bad marketing or a bad product. Certainly there are some problems in the product but it wouldn't have made a difference.

A company like Tapwave can't get gaming companies to sign on because they have no relationships and no deep pockets to do it. Just like Hollywood and professional sports, successful gaming requires [human] network connections, golf course handshakes and huge amounts of up front money. An excellent product cannot be successful without backroom deals.

Tapwave was doomed from day one because they had few relationships and little credibility with big game makers. Microsoft can jumpstart an X-box against Sony and Nintendo, but it takes obscene amounts of upfront $$ and heavy weight arm-twisting even for MS.

TapWave is like a little league team playing MLB. No matter how well they play--it is impossible for them to win.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Scott R @ 7/28/2005 11:29:53 AM # Q
You have GOT to be kidding me? PalmSource isn't in a position to pick up ANYTHING or anyone, except perhaps rubbish along the highway. As for Palm..why would they want this company? The Zodiac was unsuccessful. Buying them up and slapping a new brand name on the device won't make it anymore popular.

Well it all depends on how much the Tapwave folks want for their IP, but PalmSource could be interested in whatever progress they made on getting Linux running on Palm-compatible hardware. And as for them being unsuccessful, we all can only speculate as to what the reasons for that were. I personally believe it had more to do with poor brick & mortar distribution and insufficient marketing. You're certainly welcome to have your own opinion and to believe that the Zodiac platform itself was unappealing, but I definitely would disagree with that.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 11:36:12 AM # Q
Palm doesn't need Tapwave engineers to create new product categories or convergence devices. They are quite capable of producing such products in-house with existing talent. Heck, they can even outsource design to OEMs.

As for Zodiac's lack of popularity, the brick and mortal distribution may have contributed to its demise, but generally I believe it came down to consumer disinterest. In stores that did carry Zodiac, they weren't selling well. Go online to sites like Amazon or C|NET's shopper.com and you see Zodiac always trailed the list in terms of popularity, often behind products that had long been discontinued. On Pricegrabber it was outranked by the Palm IIIxe for crying out loud! Nobody really wanted this thing other than hardcore PalmOS enthusiasts. The Zodiac was destined from the start to be a niche player, which is fine in a much larger market. But the PDA market itself is a niche segment. And being a niche within a niche simply isn't a sustainable business model.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Another one bites the dust...
sr4 @ 7/28/2005 11:43:19 AM # Q
I agree with Jarjar
It not about the technical ability of the hardware, its about giving the developers enough confidence that they will get a return on their investment in the games they develop, and that they could not make more money developing for another platform.

Even Microsoft has a problem with this on the X-box. I dont see how Tapwave ever stood a chance.

Surur

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Scott R @ 7/28/2005 12:01:04 PM # Q
But Kent, those rankings are based on sales from various sources. So, again, palmOne/Palm had a lot more online stores selling their PDAs as well. Plus, it had the better brand recognition (partially thanks to their better B&M distribution - most people buying online will have already seen a Palm device locally). Getting the Zodiac known required both money and skills, both of which the Tapwave team was clearly lacking in.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Another one bites the dust...
treo007 @ 7/28/2005 12:09:04 PM # Q
The cynicism practiced by so many of the regular posters here would be more comical if wasn't so sad. It seems that many of you, I'm not mentioning any names, want Palm Source to fail. These same folks are constantly trying to "out-clever" one another in their cynical anologies, predictions, etc. about Palm and it's future. It's lame...

It's not as if the Zodiac was a big mover for Palm Source anyway. How exactly does this spell doom for Palm Source? For what it's worth, Palm (which of course exclusively uses Palm OS) just shipped more handhelds worldwide than HP. And this didn't even include the Treo.

Over time it doesn't matter as handhelds are going the way of the dinosour. If you ask me, Palm Source is in good position as the Treo is only going to continue gaining momentum. This phone wouldn't work the way it does with a WM or even Symbian OS. I'm anxious to see what the Linux flavor looks offers as well.



RE: It seems that many of you...want Palm Source to fail
JarJar @ 7/28/2005 1:06:57 PM # Q
I don't think that anybody here wants Palm Source to fail. (Why would they be on a Palm fansite).

I do think that people are bitter because four years ago, all the rah rah "yes-men" enabled the management to pursue flawed strategies. The whistle-blowers weren't heard even though they had many valid complaints.

Today, the doomsayers are just venting, but this also doesn't help Palm either.


Actually I agree with treo007-the Zodiac was never a big mover and neither helps nor hurts Palm Source. However, some people take the demise of the Zodiac as a symbol of other failures.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 1:47:20 PM # Q
>> "The cynicism practiced by so many of the regular posters here would be more comical if wasn't so sad. It seems that many of you, I'm not mentioning any names, want Palm Source to fail. These same folks are constantly trying to "out-clever" one another in their cynical anologies, predictions, etc. about Palm and it's future. It's lame..."

It isn't a matter of want, it's a matter of facing reality. PalmSource is dying, and the Palm platform is shrinking. Unlike other Palm enthusiasts (zealots might be a better description) I choose not to bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is coming up roses. Others are free to do so, but I don't generally don't believe in prayer chains.

I look at PalmSource, and the larger mobile device space, with a high degree of detachment. You have to, otherwise you always apply your own emotional desires where they do not apply. View PalmSource or mobile devices through the eyes a fan boy and you'll misinterpret reality every time. You WANT PalmSource to succeed, therefore you think they ARE succeeding.

I don't have a vested interest in all this, other than hoping PalmOS will weather the storm. I view the mobile space from a business perspective, not as a fanboy end user..even though I kind of still am. The business reality is that they aren't going to survive. They are cash starved, and burning through money faster than they earn it. The stock is trading at the bottom of the barrel, Cobalt was collasal failure that robbed PalmSource of valuable resources (not to mention the most critical factor: TIME). The entire survival of PalmOS now depends on an OS that is two years out, an eternity in tech terms.

Add to this the fact that Windows Mobile is now ahead of PalmOS, and you have a recipe for failure. None of this would be a problem if PalmOS were still sitting on 80-90% market share. But those days are long gone. And PalmOS are already losing against larger players. Truthfully the only thing holding PalmOS upright at this point is Treo. It's highly popular, and highly successful product. Peel back that layer of the onion and you see that everything below that is tanking. And I'm betting LifeDrive is failing as well. Largely because the market is shifting away from PDAs to Smartphones, at nearly breakneck speed. I predicted this was going to happen, but never THIS FAST. At the rate of PDA decline it's doubtful any vendor (including Palm) will still be making traditional PDAs after next year.

That's the long and short of it. So..am I supposed to sit back and whisper sweet nothings into everyone's ear? Perhaps I and others are sometimes TOO cynical, but when there is little to be positive about, cynicism is all that's left. Give me something positive and raise you. Otherwise you're just complaining that we have the audacity to discuss PalmSource's misfortunes.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Another one bites the dust...
treo007 @ 7/28/2005 2:17:58 PM # Q
You asked if you're being TOO cynical. The answer is yes. It's still a platform with a huge user base. It's also more suited to smartphones than it's competition (yes, even more so in my opinion than Symbian).

What makes you think I'm not looking at this from a business perspective either? The industry itself is not a huge business anyway, so someone like Palm Source can more or less continue to fly under the radar until the real growth starts (see smart phones).

I know you think you have all the answers (or at least your posts pretty much regularly come off that way). But how is that you think you can accurately predict this? Even most investment bank analysts don't pretend to be that kind of soothsayer. Tell me, are you putting your money where your mouth is and shorting the stock?

They've got enough business to hang around. I don't think the majority of the huge installed base of Treo users for instance really want to be forced to switch to WM anytime soon.

FYI, it's not like MS is making any money of their entire mobile division right now anyway.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
rsc1000 @ 7/28/2005 6:08:45 PM # Q
>>As for Zodiac's lack of popularity, the brick and mortal distribution may have contributed to its demise, but generally I believe it came down to consumer disinterest.

The consumers weren't disinterested - you have to know something exists before you can have a lack of interest in it!

Newsflash! Kirvin roasted at 1src
sr4 @ 7/28/2005 6:17:23 PM # Q
Jeff Kirvin goes too far:

Kirvin forgets 1src=Cliesource, calls Clie's "Poorly thought out bag of features" thats "dead". Will likely be forced to apologize, or find a new playground!

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php%3ft=92956&page=3&pp=15

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Foo Fighter @ 7/28/2005 7:26:43 PM # Q
Marketing was definitely a HUGE factor. But that requires huge investment money which Tapwave didn't have. But this is all water under the bridge. Woulda...shoulda...coulda. It's over. Time to move on.

What the heck do I do with my Z2 now? If I ebay it I'll get very little for it. Can you install Linux on a Zodiac? ;-)

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Another one bites the dust...
hkklife @ 7/28/2005 8:16:35 PM # Q
Foo;

Use it until the battery/screen crap out. Buy yerself two cheap 2gb SD cards and use it as Tapwave proclaimed its final intended purpose to be---a portable multimedia machine!!

TCMP natively supports the ATI chipset on the Zod now so you'll have some lovely hardware video acceleration.
Go and stock up on spare styli or a case or something while you're at it.



Kirvin's now just going for shock value
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/29/2005 12:26:57 AM # Q
Like that terminally tiresome shock jock, Howard Stern, Kirvin now seems to be saying anything he can to just provoke a response from people. Kirvin is by definition a TROLL..

Funny to see him repeatedly change his position again. In the space of two weeks he's gone from saying that PalmOS multitasks to saying PalmOS sorta multitasks to saying who cares if PalmOS doesn't multitask since it works adequately for many people to saying there's no need for PDAs that offer anything more than the bare bones that Palm's PDAs offer. His rationalizing has an eerily child-like quality about it. I suppose ignorance/denial is bliss and he must be quite blissful.

Kirvin seems determined to ignore the facts that people prefer value and features for their money and Palm's crappy hardware and reliance on Primitive PalmOS cripples Palm's ability to compete with Windows Mobile. It seems obvious that even more users will migrate from PalmOS if this situation stays the same. If Palm wants to survive, they must become OS agnostic + offer products running Windows Mobile that will give customers access to advanced functionality. (Imagine a Treo 700 or [FIXED] LifeDrive running some of these apps: Opera or NetFront, Pocket Informant, Wisbar, TextMaker, The Core Pocket Media Player, ListPro, Pocket Artist, Skype, CalliGrapher or PenReader, CoPilot Live, Pocket Quicken, RepliGo, Resco Explorer 2003, Nyditot Virtual Display, etc.) With native multitasking and finally some apps worth using, Windows Mobile becomes a platform that even Palm Fanboys will take a serious look at.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Kesh @ 7/29/2005 10:59:44 PM # Q
I have to echo one statement from above: with TCPMP and a couple large SD cards, the Zodiac is [i]excellent[/i] for watching movies. I got stuck in a hospital waiting room for most of a day, but luckily I had a couple films ripped to my Zodiac, so I wasn't totally bored while waiting. Full screen 480x320 video at 30 FPS is nothing to sneeze at.

RE: Another one bites the dust...
Timothy Rapson @ 7/30/2005 7:54:06 AM # Q
VOR wrote "(Imagine a Treo 700 or [FIXED] LifeDrive running some of these apps: Opera or NetFront,"

I can imagine it, then I imagine the new Axim X60v with a 20 gig hard disk that is more compact and sells for $100 less. Palms whole life had depended upon huge margins. They could never compete with Dell on that. I have no idea what they do with the money, but imagine how little it cost them to have a TE2 made? Or worse yet, a T5. They won't compete in WM arena.

As noted elsewhere, I could definitely go for Microsoft releasing a version of Windows Mobile for a gaming device like the Zodiac. In fact, just fix a couple hardware flaws and flash WM 2005 onto a VGA screened Zodiac right now, and you would have a better game system (IMHO) than the PSP.

Reply to this comment

Can't say we didn't see it coming.

AdamaDBrown @ 7/28/2005 2:13:35 AM # Q
Tapwave was a doomed company from the start. Their design, their business model, and their complete inability to adapt marked them for an early death. Then there was the death spiral. The sudden attempts to spin their product as an iPod killer, or a multimedia jukebox. The almost delusional PR statements, trying to turn perception into reality. It'll go down as a textbook example of a company's slow implosion.

RE: Can't say we didn't see it coming.
sr4 @ 7/28/2005 3:22:19 AM # Q
The sudden attempts to spin their product as an iPod killer, or a multimedia jukebox. The almost delusional PR statements, trying to turn perception into reality. It'll go down as a textbook example of a company's slow implosion.

Does this remind anyone of a certain product called the LifeDrive?

Surur

RE: Can't say we didn't see it coming.
InsGuy @ 7/28/2005 10:56:37 AM # Q
Does this remind anyone of a certain product called the LifeDrive?

Surur

EXACTLY!

All good things...

RE: Can't say we didn't see it coming.
scstraus2 @ 7/29/2005 6:01:26 AM # Q
Tapwave would have had a real winner on their hands if they could have added a big hard drive like 40gb to a next generation device. The PSP still can't do docs and pda type functionality, and if they really had something that was a cross between a PDA, game console, and iPod, plenty of people would buy it. As it is, it was just too close to what the PSP was offering, and no one buys standalone PDA's anymore.

Reply to this comment

zodiac != tapwave

ardiri @ 7/28/2005 3:55:58 AM # Q
i thought i'd put a little comment here regarding this.

mainly because i've worked so closely with tapwave in the past; and, i think some people maybe taking this news a little the wrong way when dealing with tapwave and the zodiac.

tapwave made it clear; in a recent interview with tapland - that it will be discontinuing its zodiac line. this is not a shock; and, the announcement on the tapwave site surely just makes that happen. this means, that any zodiac related assets within the company will be liquidated and sold off to external parties.

this doesn't mean that tapwave; the company is necessarially going out of business. they have more than enough right to sell their zodiac concept to recover assets/losses from running the zodiac business. with this in place; tapwave may be able to start focusing on additional markets and/or products.

a good example of how this has happened before is handera. handera- used to product palmos handhelds. they then stopped making them and as a result exist purely in the market as a 3rd party consulting company (working for palmone/palmsource and the alphasmart company).

until i hear from byron connell personally that tapwave inc. is liquidating itself as a company - there still is a future for tapwave as a company; just not with the zodiac product line.

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

RE: zodiac != tapwave
mbuhboot @ 7/28/2005 5:53:08 AM # Q
I second Aaron's thoughts - I think he is basically right - and the revised homepage just manifest what they publicaly enough. They have not shutdown tapwave inc, they shutdown a product line and operation related to it and they are willing to support their customers.

No wonder zodiac have no future with Sony PSP out in the market. As others say, if they can design one of the following, I think that many companies will be considering branding it:
1. Lifedrive like design, slimmer, no HD, 512MB flash, WIFI + BT and sliding keyboard.
2. Mio 168 like device (integrated GPS) with 3.8" or even 4" device - strong speaker and a none propietery GPS receiver (unlike the aging Garmin iQue 3600)

Moshe

RE: zodiac != tapwave
ardiri @ 7/28/2005 6:01:56 AM # Q
They have not shutdown tapwave inc, they shutdown a product line and operation related to it and they are willing to support their customers.

i could be wrong tho - i know they were planning on doing some OEM work; if they are selling the zodiac 1/2 concept as we know it - or, any future works they are working on is yet to be known.

at palmsource devkon, i was shown linux running on a tapwave zodiac - and, i had some interesting discussions regarding the future of tapwave. tapwave selling the zodiac concept and bringing in an external mediator (finance company) - tells me they want to get what they can from the product line; without its further demise bringing down the whole company.

No wonder zodiac have no future with Sony PSP out in the market.

i own zodiacs and a PSP - and, they are relatively the same when it comes to working with the units themselves. the PSP has a nicer screen, but, resolution wise isn't much different (480x272 vs 480x320) - CPU's are similar 200Mhz ARM vs 222Mhz (can be clocked at 333Mhz). the biggest downfall i see with the PSP is the lack of official support for homebrew/custom development.

tapwave made it too open - allowing open source/freeware projects to take over the market and discourage 3rd party developers from investing time into the zodiac; but, PSP is going the other extreme - i would like to create commercial downloadale software for the PSP (ie: port my games), but there doesn't seem to be a feasible solution for this right now.

before i get flammed; while emulator development is great - its what kills a platform. if SONY could control what was released by 3rd parties (even downloadable); they could tap into a larger market. who says the sony browser in 2.0 is better than one a 3rd party developer can write themselves?


---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

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