Palm Treo 700w Approved by the FCC

The Windows Mobile Palm Treo 700w has gained FCC approval. The FCC filling confirms the Treo 700w name and some other details. They have also published the full user manual as well as new pictures and screenshots of the device.

Palm Treo 700w SmartphoneThe Palm Treo 700w runs Windows Mobile 5.0 and is a CDMA-based phone targeted for the U.S. market. It will operate on Verizon Wireless' BroadbandAccess EV-DO network with download speeds averaging 400-700 kilobits per second. It is expected to be available in early 2006.

The Treo 700w runs the Pocket PC version of Windows Mobile, which includes touchscreen support. The display has a 240 x 240 pixel resolution. It will have 64 MB or memory and an SD expansion slot.

The user manual confirms some additional details about the smartphone. It will have a 1.3 MP digital camera, and there will be a version without the camera. It has Bluetooth v1.2, however the manual explicitly states you cannot use a Bluetooth headset to listen to music.

Treo 700w screen shotThe full list of FCC documents including exterior and interior pictures, user manual and test reports can be found here.

Thanks to Engadget for the tip.

Windows Mobile Treo Forum

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Where is all the excitement?

benamy @ 12/5/2005 4:17:14 PM # Q
So who wants one?

I am surprised no one has jump on the posting of this abomination.

Have fun hard reseting Mobile 2005.

Ben


RE: Where is all the excitement?
Foo Fighter @ 12/5/2005 4:51:10 PM # Q
>> "Have fun hard reseting Mobile 2005"

You mean like the kind of "fun" I have resetting Garnet? Or even more entertaining...watching Garnet reset ITSELF?

The screen resolution alone will keep me, and a lot of other folks from buying the 700w. I just can't go back to a primitive 240x240 (or even QVGA) display. Now, if this were a 480x480 then I would be interested.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Where is all the excitement?
Tuckermaclain @ 12/5/2005 4:59:02 PM # Q
What should we read into this when there is no 700p application? Did I miss it?

RE: Where is all the excitement?
LiveFaith @ 12/5/2005 5:17:19 PM # Q
**It has Bluetooth v1.2, however the manual explicitly states you cannot use a Bluetooth headset to listen to music.**

Palm. They place their trademark on yet another device. What on God's green earth could they possibly be thinking on this one. v1.2 and the note in the article about wireless headsets is the evidence that they are laying an egg on an absolutely wonderful feature. Unbelievable!!!

But, it's MinMollasses anyway with 1/2 the pixels, beasty antenna, only 64MB (for Windows!)so not much to get excited @ anyway, EV-DO excepted.

Still unbelievable!!!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Where is all the excitement?
AdamaDBrown @ 12/5/2005 6:26:08 PM # Q
Tuckermaclain wrote:
What should we read into this when there is no 700p application? Did I miss it?

No, you didn't miss it, there hasn't been any filing. At this point, all that that really means is that any 700p won't be coming out at the same time as the 700w.

LiveFaith wrote
They place their trademark on yet another device.

To be fair, the lack of BT headphone support is the fault of the original Bluetooth stack that WM5 shipped with, and was only fixed in the recent AKU 2. Also, 64 MB is probably the RAM, which is reasonably spacious under WM5.

RE: Where is all the excitement?
Masamune @ 12/5/2005 6:59:08 PM # Q
"You mean like the kind of "fun" I have resetting Garnet? Or even more entertaining...watching Garnet reset ITSELF?"

At least Palm saves you the effort having to reset it yourself....

RE: Where is all the excitement?
LiveFaith @ 12/5/2005 7:14:59 PM # Q
Adam,

Can it be upgraded from the ROM? Maybe Palm could sell it as an upgrade. :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Where is all the excitement?
fishtastic @ 12/5/2005 7:38:09 PM # Q
240*240 is pitiful for a WinMob machine and that's the reason I didn't buy the HP one either.

I'll stick with my O2 Exec (Universal); 640*480 screen, 128mb flash, 64mb ram, WiFi, Bluetooth, GSM, 3G, QWERTY keyboard.

As far as resets go, 1 month - no resets (except app installs that soft reset after installation).

I dont know why Palm decided to release a product which is so clearly flawed. I know WinMob support 240*240 but lots of apps don't. Could they have not used 320*320 and only allowed the os to see 320*240 and put phone status data in a 320*60 bar? Better luck with the next one. Try a useful resolution.

Fish

RE: Where is all the excitement?
AdamaDBrown @ 12/5/2005 7:45:36 PM # Q
Yes, it can be distributed as a ROM update. Dell has already released one update including AKU 1, so I'd definitely hold out some hope that the T700w will get updated either before the launch or soon after. AKU 2 is also the update that enables push email from an Exchange server, so I doubt that they'll want to forgo that.

RE: Where is all the excitement?
LiveFaith @ 12/6/2005 10:32:10 AM # Q
fishtastic,

The handwriting's on the wall for that form factor and feauture set (except EDGE v EV-DO) you have there. That being said, my guess is that corporate America will still go after the WinMob Treo by leaps and bounds. Why? Because it's a Treo and the form is a proven one.

It takes a little while for the better tech to take hold because the herd is slower to see it than the relatively few geeks. When the Palm OS Cingular 8215 comes it will hit critical mass: :-o
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/htc8215v650.JPG

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!

Surur @ 12/5/2005 5:00:22 PM # Q
Search Google from your Today Screen

Sunday, December 4, 2005, 06:28 PM - New Software
I was enamored with one of the Today Screen plugins on the new WM Treo, of which you can see a screenshot here:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,44751&/treo_700w_manual_now_available.htm

The plugin allows you to search the web from the today screen. This seemed useful, and I wonder why no one ever thought of it before. I've often debated which to leave my homepage on in PIE, yahoo for me to check my mail and the like, or google, to do quick info lookups. Yahoo has won, but now I could have the best of both worlds.

I decided to try to write a clone of such a plugin, and here's my result:

This is a 1.0/beta version that I'd like people to help me test out. It's not configurable, it will only search google. There are some issues with the Keyboard popping/not popping/not disappearing that I need to work on, and there may be some version and theme problems.

Basically, I'd like to hear from you if it works. I'm not sure if it will work on devices that use anything earlier than WM2003SE. If that's the case, I'll work on fixing that.

You can install it via cab here: http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~jmisurda/ppc/SearchToday.ARM.CAB

Download/Copy it to your device, install, and enable it from the Today settings applet. There will be an improved installer in the future as well. To uninstall, you'll first have to uncheck it from the today settings applet, then uninstall.

Let me know how it works, and give some suggestions for future versions.

Thanks,

Jon

http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~jmisurda/ppc/blog/comments.php?y=05&m=12&entry=entry051204-182826

When Palm went WM it was as a lamb lying with wolves. Their unique features are quite superficial and will soon be copied and probably available for free.

Surur



They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
Rome @ 12/5/2005 9:50:07 PM # Q
"When Palm went WM it was as a lamb lying with wolves. Their unique features are quite superficial and will soon be copied and probably available for free."

so, what's you point? Are you saying that Palm made a mistaking by going with MW? Or are you saying that Palm should not even try to improve upon WM and let Microsoft do all the "innovations'? The fact that Palm is first to market with these new features is of significantly importance in itself.

It is one thing to be critical, but your lack of objectivity is truly astounding.

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
freakout @ 12/6/2005 12:19:59 AM # Q
Take it easy, tiger! I think Surur's point was that for all their (and Microsoft's) talk of Palm having unprecedented power to make changes to WM, the extra features they've added don't seem to be all the ground-breaking.

"The fact that Palm is first to market with these new features is of significantly importance in itself."

You're quite right, it is. But yet I wonder what this phone would look like if it was still Handspring calling the shots with the Treo... They seemed to have an "innovation edge" (I hate that phrase but can't think of a better one) that Palm can't match.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/6/2005 3:04:35 AM # Q
About the same.

The original PalmPilot was a lucky shot in the dark. The longer that it's been on the market the clearer it becomes that the original Treo was another one.

PalmOS and its usability was also great 'back in the day', but it has outlived its usefulness. PDA-ish devices aren't single address space battery-backed-up DRAM devices with a small number of simple I/O devices, and Palm(One|Source) haven't figured out what to do about that.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
freakout @ 12/6/2005 3:25:16 AM # Q
It seems the answer is "Run crying to Microsoft."

Rather depressingly.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
freakout @ 12/6/2005 3:51:04 AM # Q
"The original PalmPilot was a lucky shot in the dark. The longer that it's been on the market the clearer it becomes that the original Treo was another one."

Sales are growing. Possibly four new models being introduced, each to target a different market. Explain. ;)

"...but it has outlived its usefulness."

I can totally understand that - especially coming from a developer's viewpoint like yours - but from an end-user's point of view, at least mine, Garnet is still quite a viable OS. It's been able to handle everything I've thrown at it. There's squillions of applications available for almost any task, a lot of them free.

It sometimes resets after I've been using the GPS, running PocketTunes in the background** and then try to play a game or something. It takes 20seconds for it to soft-reset. Big deal. (23 if you want to be pedantical ;) ). Once or twice, it's reset itself for what seemed to be no reason at all. I don't like that, but it's infrequent enough (I mean "once or twice" literally, and i've owned it for 8 months now) that it's not really an issue.

I guess what I'm saying is that I know Garnet needs to go. Palm/Source seems to have hit a development wall with it. But for now, and at least another year or two, end-users like myself aren't going to notice any significant deficiencies with it.

**The Treo makes an *excellent* addition to your car stereo, esp. if you have an old piece of junk like mine. A $10 car cradle and a $20 cassette adaptor (or an even cheaper line-in cable) and you have an in-car mp3 player that rivals the ridiculously exorbitant ones being marketed currently. Betters them, actually, thanks to the the big touchscreen that's mounted higher up on the dash, so you don't have to lean over to adjust anything.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
hkklife @ 12/6/2005 10:16:50 AM # Q
Garnet is STILL a servicable OS, yes, but ONLY for 320*320 single wireless devices (T|E2 is the ideal Garnet machine).

Anything more than that and it's just tasked with too much to bear. The TX has just as many quirks as a patched T5, possibly more.

Just imagine what Plam could've done with the Treo had it had a robust OS ready to go in '04/'05. I definitely see the Treo wave as passing. When you see execs trading in their Treo 600s for a RAZR just because they want something sleek, reliable, and stylish you know it's a bad sign. It's the Palm V phenomena all over again. Someone gets a PDA/Smartphone. They think it's clunky/heavy/ugly but they like its functionality. Then a cell phone that is much smaller & carries more cachet appears and they suddely realize that their cell's built in phone book is "good enough" and the smartphone/PDA is replace/relegated to the side pocket of their messenger bad/briefcase.

It happened in '01 when the V60/Vader made a lot of people replace their Palm IIIs & Vs. It's happening again with the RAZR and the slew of knockoff/spinoff phones about to be unleashed on the market.

I think that unless Palm can do some MAJOR reworking in the first half of '06, the WinMob Treo will be the last major gasp. Palm's not good at playing the carrier game and, unlike Moto/Nokia, isn't skilled at pitting the carriers against each other. People aren't going to change from Verizon to Spring just to get a Treo 700p. They'll just end up not BUYING another Treo at all.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
LiveFaith @ 12/6/2005 10:38:40 AM # Q
"The original PalmPilot was a lucky shot in the dark. The longer that it's been on the market the clearer it becomes that the original Treo was another one."

Two lucky shots in the dark for Hawkins / Dubinsky & Co? Hehe, I'll bet those Powerball Lottery ads get your attention. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/6/2005 3:39:49 PM # Q
Yup, two lucky shots in the dark, and nope, I'm math literate, I don't go anywhere near the powerball, thanks.

While Hawkins and friends may well have known exactly what they were doing when the cobbled together the first PalmPilot, the fact that they happened to do it at just the right time was a lucky shot in the dark for Palm *the company*. Said company then coasted along on small incremental improvements for years, slowly winding its way into obvlivion until, by another lucky shot in the dark, Handspring did the Treo but couldn't survive in the marketplace, so Palm *the company* once again lucked out, and has, since, gotten by pretty much on small incremental improvements.

Now Access has bought PalmSource. Third lucky shot, or shot in the foot? Only time will tell ;)


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
freakout @ 12/6/2005 5:01:35 PM # Q
While I myself would like to see revolution rather than evolution with the Treo, it seems to me that evolution is what it needs right now. And in only three areas:

1)Stability. We might be seeing the best of Garnet here, but then, maybe Palm can wring another few drops of blood out of the stone...)

2)Style. Hollywood will apparently fix this, or at least try to. But if it's WinMob then it won't really be a Treo. (Yes, I know I'm shooting my mouth off before I've even tried it....

3) Price. Lowrider will apparently rectify this too.

It's just silly to write off the Treo as a failed fad right now, especially when they're about to try such an aggressive new set of releases. And especially when sales are still growing!

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Marty, you VICIOUS snake! ;-O
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/6/2005 11:26:27 PM # Q
The original PalmPilot was a lucky shot in the dark. The longer that it's been on the market the clearer it becomes that the original Treo was another one.

Oh please. Give Hawkins a little credit. Yes, the OS choice was a lucky one (who would have ever thought it would be this flexible?) but Hawkins et. al. knew their limitations and didn't try to be something they lacked the hardware to be. And the Treo 600 was a killer hack of a decrepit, obsolete OS - you should know better than to dis' what those Treo Kiddies did with very limited resources. The packaging of a decent keyboard into a relatively small form factor was also a good bit of design work. The only "luck" involved with the Treo 600 was Palm being lucky enough to have such a solid design handed to them on a silver platter by a desperate Handspring that had shot its financial wad before they could get the Treo 600 out the door into reasonable production.

Now the fact that Palm has gone on and done exactly NOTHING with those two original designs... THAT is something to biotch about. The Sony CLIE UX50, TH55 and VZ90 are designs that Palm is too incompetent to have produced. Palm has been milking the Incremental Upgrade Cow for so long they don't realize that cow died years ago...

PalmOS and its usability was also great 'back in the day', but it has outlived its usefulness. PDA-ish devices aren't single address space battery-backed-up DRAM devices with a small number of simple I/O devices, and Palm(One|Source) haven't figured out what to do about that.

Bull. PalmOS is still quite useful - as long as it doesn't try to overextend itself. My UX50 is a killer PDA and can almost replace a laptop when it's loaded with the right apps. With some work, PalmOS 5 could be more stable - even though the writing's on the wall (its days are numbered). With a little effort PalmOS could have had a lot of life left in it. The problem is Palm/PalmSource were too stupid to fix little things before they became major problems. It amazes me that an OS company could have invested so little money in developing its most important product - the OS - when times were good + all those Palm Vx were flying off the shelves.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

You vicious biotch! That was mean, Marty. Don't bite the hand that fed (and then spanked your a$$)... ;-O

At least you got out with your dignity still (barely) intact. Those poor dumba$$es left at PalmSource are going to be culled faster than you can say ¤µ¤è¤¦¤Ê¤é

Say¨­nara PalmSource-san.

TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/7/2005 3:17:17 AM # Q
I did give Hawkins credit, and he deserves it. I think the original PalmPilot design was a brilliant example of effective compromise to create a market opportunity. It's Palm, not the founders, that I'm accusing of running on luck.

I dunno what sort of laptop you'd replace with a PDA (maybe one of the $100 wind up ones?) but I doubt it'd be one that anyone who does serious business with a laptop is using. Still, a PDA is a lot cheaper than a laptop, and smaller, so if you're needs fit into such a small device, good for you.

These days, laptops run 2+ghz processors with nice graphics, gig-e and wifi, and routinely come with a gig+ of ram and 50gb+ of disk, and a dvd burner and ok sound. I use one for serious software development where I would have used a pretty hefty workstation just five years ago. There are even a couple of laptops around that you could use as gamer machines.

Pity the PDA hasn't advanced as much in the last five years as the laptop has. (_NOT_ Palm's fault, though. Nature of the beast and all.)



Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Dumping PalmSource employees made easy...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/7/2005 5:21:10 AM # Q
I did give Hawkins credit, and he deserves it. I think the original PalmPilot design was a brilliant example of effective compromise to create a market opportunity. It's Palm, not the founders, that I'm accusing of running on luck.

I now see you later clarified that you were bashing Palm the COMPANY rather than the original design/designers. Fair enough.

I dunno what sort of laptop you'd replace with a PDA (maybe one of the $100 wind up ones?)

The kind of laptop that does email, Word documents, Excel, stores + displays photos, plays MP3, carries Outlook contacts + schedule, sends files back + forth to my desktop via Bluetooth, keeps track of multiple budgets with Microsoft Money and browses the Internet. That kind of laptop. The kind that actually does around 90% of what the average users needs from a laptop and carries around 0% of the Windows-related headaches. The kind that weighs 6 ounces and has survived countless drops to the pavement without a scratch. The kind that's immune to viruses. That kind of laptop.


but I doubt it'd be one that anyone who does serious business with a laptop is using.

And how many employees outfitted with laptops actually NEED them? And how mant hours are wasted supporting clueless end users? Yes YOU may need the son of BRAINIAC, but a lot of us don't.

Still, a PDA is a lot cheaper than a laptop, and smaller, so if you're needs fit into such a small device, good for you.

Bingo. But what I really want to see is the cross between a UX50, a VZ90 (with OLED screen) and an IBM X40, with integrated cellphone.


TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
Surur @ 12/7/2005 5:44:56 AM # Q
Pity the PDA hasn't advanced as much in the last five years as the laptop has. (_NOT_ Palm's fault, though. Nature of the beast and all.)

If you look at Palm PDA's you would have that impression, but pocketpc's have been rumbling along quite nicely thank you. The very fact that you can run Quake with a decent frame rate (20+ frames/sec) tells you that the hardware is not that bad. Lets look at the featues that pocketpc's have in common with laptops these days (not one ppc has all these features, but quite a few has many of them)
USB 2 - same as a laptop
wifi g - same as a laptop
Bluetooth 2 - same as a laptop
USB host - same as a laptop (although much more limited due to driver availability)
EVDO - same as a laptop
Expandable mass storage, also to 100's of GB through USB host

The better PDA's these days have VGA screens with a much higher DPI than most laptops, video accelerators and featues such as GPS, which almost no laptops have, and often built-in cameras, which most laptops do not have.

The fact is that PDA's are technologically more advanced than laptops in many areas, especially in their strenght, which is portability and long battery life. There was a recent story of a PPC PDA with a 1500mah battery that was able to achieve 37 hour run time while in an ebook battery test.

Sure, PDA's arnt laptops, but they have advanced plenty in their own direction (as long as you are talking about PPC's of course ;) )

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/7/2005 10:35:51 PM # Q
"The better PDA's these days have VGA screens with a much higher DPI than most laptops"

Surur, I foresee a career for you in marketing. That's the first time I've seen the disadvantage of tiny screens described in a way as to make it appear an advantage. After all, in this instance, all "higher DPI" means is that you have to get closer to see the same level of detail.


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Marty. Kettle. Black.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/8/2005 12:11:24 AM # Q
"The better PDA's these days have VGA screens with a much higher DPI than most laptops"

Surur, I foresee a career for you in marketing. That's the first time I've seen the disadvantage of tiny screens described in a way as to make it appear an advantage. After all, in this instance, all "higher DPI" means is that you have to get closer to see the same level of detail.


Wow. And this coming from Marty "Defender of PalmSource" Fouts? Pot. Kettle. Black.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Who will replace the legendary Marty Fouts at PalmSource?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/8/2005 12:17:48 AM # Q
Why did PalmSource suddenly deem Marty Fouts expendable?



Why was Marty-san dumped by yet another employer despite his 1337 Linux 5K!11Z?






Why?





Why?





Why?




Eighth World "Wonder"?

Or just another Marty Blunder?





You decide, Kiddies...

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/8/2005 2:27:50 AM # Q
Pay attention, Skippy. I quit. Nobody "dumped" me.

I realize that reality is hard for you and accuracy is not your strong suit, but it's sad to watch you making such a fool of yourself here.

Have a Nice Day.



Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
Surur @ 12/8/2005 2:49:15 AM # Q
"The better PDA's these days have VGA screens with a much higher DPI than most laptops"

Surur, I foresee a career for you in marketing. That's the first time I've seen the disadvantage of tiny screens described in a way as to make it appear an advantage. After all, in this instance, all "higher DPI" means is that you have to get closer to see the same level of detail.


Marty Fouts

I wont belabor the point, accept to say it indicates that even screen tech, just like in laptops, is not standing still.

Surur


I wasn't booted out. I landed on my a$$ on purpose. Yeah.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/8/2005 3:05:20 AM # Q
I quit. Nobody "dumped" me.


When were you planning to leave PalmSource, Marty? And when did they TELL you to pack up your stuff and get the **** out of the building?

Whatever gets you through the night, Sweetie.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/8/2005 2:22:58 PM # Q
Surur,

I never suggested that PDA tech is standing still, only that it would be nice if it were moving forward at the much faster rate of mainstream computing.

When I compare a typical '00 Dell Latitude that I have to a typical '04 Dell Inspiron that I bought recently and then compare my Visor Neo to the Tungsten C I bought my wife, (both typical PDAs of their period) I don't get the same sense of advancement from the PDA. Especially when I factor in that the Latitude was twice as expensive as the Inspiron but the Neo was cheaper than the C.

More interestingly, compare the Treo 600 to the Treo 700.


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

15
PenguinPowered @ 12/8/2005 2:34:34 PM # Q
Ah, Skippy's being 15 again.

How special.

Have a nice day, Skippy.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
Surur @ 12/8/2005 4:25:06 PM # Q
When I compare a typical '00 Dell Latitude that I have to a typical '04 Dell Inspiron that I bought recently and then compare my Visor Neo to the Tungsten C I bought my wife, (both typical PDAs of their period) I don't get the same sense of advancement from the PDA

Thats because you are comparing PalmOS PDA's. In any case the Visor Neo was announced September 2001. The Tungsten C was announced April 2003. Thats actually less than 2 years. Maybe thats not actually a fair expectation for major change in any case.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/8/2005 5:22:57 PM # Q
OK, so I'll bite. What's a '00 non-Palm pda that was typical in the market at the time? What's a typical '05 non-Palm pda that's typical in the market now?

How do they really stack up?


Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
Surur @ 12/8/2005 7:10:32 PM # Q
I think few could argue that the prototypical pocketpc was the Ipaq h3600, announced in April 2000. It had 32MB ram, a 12bit QVGA screen, 206Mhz processor, SD slot and only infra-red wireless.

Dimensions
Width 3.3 in. Depth 0.63 in. Height 5.1 in. Weight 5.8 oz

My favorite 2005 PDA is still the Loox 720. It has a 520Mhz processor with wireless mmx, 128MB ram, 64MB ROM (27 user accessible), WIFI, bluetooth, consumer infra-red, dual slots and of course 16 bit VGA screen. In addition it has USB host, audio out via cradle, VOIP speaker, and mic in via the headphone socket (besides the normal mike of course)

Dimensions 2.83 w 4.80 h 0.60 d 6 oz.

So the 2005 device is thinner, narrower and shorter, yet has dual slots, three types of wireless, 4 times the resolution, many times the battery life, and generally much more capable.

2006 PDA's are going to blow us away. The Loox 560 which is coming q1 2006 is a VGA pocketpc with 256 MB ROM/64 MB RAM, 624 MHz processor, VGA, GPS (Sirf III), BT and 802.11g WIFI, USB Host, 2700g GPU, VGA out via cable, and an OS that can use all these features. And it will be smaller than the Loox 720.

Besides adding WAN in some form (like the HTC Universal, which has GSM, 3G, WIFI and bluetooth) or a huge amount of storage (but then 4GB SD cards are available already) I really cant think of anything more to add to such a device. Yet a 2007 device will still make a 2006 device look outdated.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
freakout @ 12/8/2005 7:35:49 PM # Q
"The Loox 560 which is coming q1 2006 is a VGA pocketpc with 256 MB ROM/64 MB RAM, 624 MHz processor, VGA, GPS (Sirf III), BT and 802.11g WIFI, USB Host, 2700g GPU, VGA out via cable, and an OS that can use all these features."

Woah!!!

How *much* is that going to cost??!! (and where can I steal one? Even if it does run WinMob...)

As someone who appears relatively neutral in the ongoing Palm/PocketPC stoush, Surur, how do you find the two OS's compare?

If they could shrink a device like that down to a Treo form factor... (drools)

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/8/2005 8:23:57 PM # Q
Well, according to http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/fujitsu-siemens-loox-720/ is more of a high ender than a typical, but it doesn't matter, as you're making my point rather nicely.

Between your two examples, processor speed doubled, RAM stayed the same, and ROM doubled (assuming I'm reading what you meant about RAM/ROM amounts.) The price, IIRC, stayed about the same.

OOTH, between my two mainstream laptops:

1) Screen resoultion went up (and dpi as well)
2) Weight went down.
3) battery performance got better
4) Went from no builtin network interfaces to gig-e/802.11g built in
5) memory went from 128mb to 2gb (that's a factor of 16)
6) disk size went from 512mb to 80gb
7) processor speed went from 166mhz to 2ghz.
8) went from cd player to dvd burner

and the price went down. If I were to compare a highend lap top to an '00 laptop the numbers would be a lot more impressive, but so would the price.

So yeah, PDA tech isn't standing still, but I sure wish it'd managed what laptop tech had managed.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Marty... Marty... Marty...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/8/2005 8:52:21 PM # Q
Have a nice day, Skippy.

Thanks, Marty. Take care.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
freakout @ 12/8/2005 9:26:33 PM # Q
Marty,

PDAs, by nature of being a small handheld device, don't need the same huge leaps in processor power and hardware add-ons that laptops do. Laptops are meant to be mobile desktops and are built as such; PDAs/smartphones are not. They're for quick data access while on the go, simple games and things like GPS that are uniquely suited to a handheld unit. While it would be nice to see revolutionary advances in hardware, the real challenge with PDA's - as always - is the efficient presentation of and access to data on a small screen. Until they can get that down pat, why on earth do we want them to complicate it even further?

Can you see yourself whipping out your laptop while geocaching?

Stop comparing the two! :P

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Palm Treo 700 feature clones already!
PenguinPowered @ 12/9/2005 1:47:32 AM # Q
I'm not comparing the two, I'm comparing the relative rate of advance in the two. Oh, and yes, I *do* whip out my laptop while geocaching. It has all sorts of uses -- but only at 'base camp', in the car.



Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

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