Treo 750 spotted running Windows Mobile 6

Maybe we'll see something like the 700w--->700wx (or, way back when, the T|T to T|T2) transition and Palm will offer a 750x or 755 with nothing changed other than the pre-installed OS or maybe a better camera?

That's a quick & cheap way to keep their name in the spotlight around the WM6 launch hoopla, and save the "big guns" (a 320x320) WM6 Treo for the traditional fall launch timeframe.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

the competition is heating up and Palm ran out of the luxury of time long ago.

your T3 is a fossil from a lost, long ago civilization.

- organize my calendar, to-dos, addressbook, notes (original purpose) perfectly
- Connect to wifi hotspots
- Connect to the internet over bluetooth link to my cellphone when there's no wifi (the usual)
- Browse the web (Opera Mini)
- Play movies (TCPMP), such as TV episodes I've downloaded or down-converted DVDs (yes I do this)
- function as a portable "MP3" player (although I mostly use OGG), sometimes music but usually podcasts
- Full word-processor and spreadsheet support (MobiSystems OfficeSuite)
- More games than I know what to do with to pass my free time
- Other additional tasks such as tracking car maintenance, shopping list, etc.

And again, I point out that this 4-year-old device has better hardware specs (more RAM, faster CPU, larger screen) than the Treo 750. I concede that the Palm default UI is antiquated but that's easily fixed (as already mentioned) with some simple utilities.

Not bad for a "fossil".

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

p.s. this new 8800 looks sweet. bulletproof push email must be nice.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/blackberry-8800-up-close-and-personal-235806.php

Why? Who'd write to you other than blackmailers?

-- http://www.veracast.com/bas/tech07/main/print_slides.cfm

Giggle.

That link does not work (for me?).

There wasn't anything particularly interesting in the slides given that the "unknown to me device" was just a TX...

One tidbit the CFO revealed about 25 minutes in was "no third platform" - unfortunately, I was paying attention elsewhere while the sound droned on in the background and didn't quite catch what he said. I'm sure the presentation will be archived somewhere for relistening.

The CFO =just= said "no third platform" - there goes Linux!

That's what they've always said. But Linux is not a platform. Linux is a kernel. Palm OS has had three different kernels in the past but in each case Palm and PalmSource have always emphasized that it was "Palm OS," not some alternative platform. You can rest assured that if Palm develops a new Garnet-compatible OS running on Linux (or WinCE, or Symbian) they are not going to refer to it as a "third platform." It will be the new Palm OS.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Note - that "No linux" easily could have been something like "No linux anytime soon" rather than "No Linus. Period".

But he said something like "Don't want to get into a third platform".

======

BTW - this doesn't negate what =I= think is coming down the pipe - SERVER-side Linux software interacting with dumb whatever-phones...we'll see!

Not that these statements can all be interpreted as part of some continuous strategy that's been unchanged since 2005, just that the "no third platform" mantra has been going on concurrently with enthusiastic talk about Linux since the 700w release. Palm doesn't seem to see this as a contradiction.

Who knows what Palm will do, really? The only inside info I had is now almost a year old and the rest is just suggestive bits here and there that seemed to support it. I do think they're going to do something with those development rights they bought from ACCESS. We'll see.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

========

[apparently my previously-stated "points in time" included some variation in the muzak-time before the presentation...oops...the archived presentation does not include that so those time points are incorrect for the archived presentation]

==============

About 30 minutes in the CFO mentions how valuable the PalmOS licensing deal was - from about $42 million last year alone for licensing to $46 million TOTAL amortized over 5 years for the new deal.

As such, this deal all by itself - with NO mods to PalmOS etc - was well worth it.

==============

About 32-33 minutes in he says:

== "...we introduced a completely new platform [windows]...I think
== it's highly unlikely you'll see us add a third platform for
== smartphones..."

He then adds something about the "no new radio architectures for the next 12 months" (paraphrase).

==============

About 38.30 in he says "only two [platforms] today are PalmOS and Windows Mobile".

About 38.30 in he says "only two [platforms] today are PalmOS and Windows Mobile".

Sounds very much like there is no contradiction with what David Beers said above. At this point it is unknown if the future "Palm OS" will be running on a Linux kernel or not, but if not, I really don't understand why they'd purposefully hire Linux programers. I still don't think you can conclude that "there goes Linux" with any certainty at all; that's a big leap. "Palm OS" does not equal the kernel. Seems to me that all you can conclude that Palm will be using WinMob and something called "Palm OS". Maybe that says more about "not-ALP" than anything else. What kernel "Palm OS" will have is an unknown, but Linux make a lot of sense given the other information we have already heard/seen.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

Now, we can debate all sorts of things about what "no third platform for smartphones" means, but ... why?

I think that's kinda how it worked.

Alternately, everyone could have just left the statement ("The CFO =just= said "no third platform" - there goes Linux!") unchallenged, but then it wouldn't have been any fun at all because we wouldn't have had anything to talk about and it possibly would have left the person who made the statement in the first place assuming that there were no other possible conclusions to draw from the evidence.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

Then again, that could be because they're dropping PDAs altogether in favor of Treos.

Geez.

At least I won't have to change this post:
http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/oh-palm-you-pack-of-eejits/

And plays RIGHT into the idea of SERVER-side linux feeding "dumb-whatever phones".

"dumb-whatever" can be any OS.

hat's what they've always said. But Linux is not a platform. Linux is a kernel.

Now that is a reach. To 99.9995% of the world, Linux means whatever you get on the distro. It _is_ a platform.

May You Live in Interesting Times

May You Live in Interesting Times

Christ, just don't call it PalmOS Corporate Edition!! (PalmCE!!!)

Why? Why not just the evolution of the Palm OS platform?

Because it would require using a different set of development tools and the source code wouldn't be directly compatible with garnet. They've have to write a bunch of middleware to make their aps run on linux.

May You Live in Interesting Times

Why not just the evolution of the Palm OS platform?

Because it would require using a different set of development tools and the source code wouldn't be directly compatible with garnet. They've have to write a bunch of middleware to make their aps run on linux.

So what if they do? If the public API and system behavior from the perspective of an application was the same (i.e. it preserves binary compatibility) Palm application developers don't need new tools and it's mostly just a tweaked Palm OS Garnet to users. Palm might not even make a native Linux API available to developers.

Of course you might ask what the point of such an effort might be. Well, Palm could replace the application launcher with one written in native Linux that spawns a separate task for each Garnet application you launch and provides some way to manage multiple running tasks. Now you have a multitasking version of Palm OS with each app running in protected memory so it's unlikely to take the whole system down. There also might be one or two apps they'd like to add that are native Linux, to dip their toe in it and to take advantage of some of the extra power and flexibility.

It wouldn't attract many Linux hackers, but it would be an answer to a lot of the critics of the Palm OS in the technical press and the user community.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

So what if they do? If the public API and system behavior from the perspective of an application was the same (i.e. it preserves binary compatibility) Palm application developers don't need new tools and it's mostly just a tweaked Palm OS Garnet to users. Palm might not even make a native Linux API available to developers.

Because it's not developers that cost them money and overhead leading to their desire not to support three platforms, it's all the extra work. Costs you 60+% more to support three than it does to support 2.

What's the compelling reason to spend that much money on Linux?

May You Live in Interesting Times

Because it would require using a different set of development tools and the source code wouldn't be directly compatible with garnet. They've have to write a bunch of middleware to make their aps run on linux.

So if you are correct, what is the long-term plan for "Palm OS"? Will the Palm OS never move beyond Garnet? Will the future of Palm really be just making WinMob devices as the Palm OS sinks slowly into its own sunset? Will Palm make no attempt to evolve/develop "their" OS? And if they do plan on developing the Palm OS platform, what are the good alternatives for the kernel? Inquiring minds want to know.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

palm gives every appearance of having convinced itself that it can play in the winmob field using the 'palm experience' to differentiate itself from other winmob platforms. I wish them luck.

IMO, No, palm has no plan to develop "their" OS. they've moved out of OSes and up into middleware and application suites. They are a hardware company that only does software to the extent that is is necessary to support the hardware.

The only compelling reason Palm had to play Linux with PSRC was that Linux was the only direction that PSRC was taking PalmOS in and Palm didn't yet have enough sales data on winmob to trust their future to a single platform. Access killed that when they made PalmOS a wart on ALP.

Yes, a lot of people expect Palm to branch out in that way. I don't. (They tried it once and failed miserably. I don't think they feel they've learned how to do better a second time.) They're killing off their PDA line and they're not keeping up in the cell market place. I expect Palm has just realized that they're on the 'keeping up with Nokia' treadmill and like the red queen have to run full speed just to stay in place.

I'm too lazy to do the homework, but if someone wanted to do some sleuthing to see if Palm's really interested in doing something with server side software, go back and look through those job listings for network architects and network engineers. You can't run a server farm unless you've got people who understand the intarweb.

Of course, finding such job postings might not mean anything, because you've got to be able to figure out the difference between postings for inward facing IT and postings for customer facing network operations.

May You Live in Interesting Times