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New Treo Smartphone Images Leaked

Palm Treo Gandolf RumorRumor: Two separate sources have posted possible images and specs on two new Palm Treo smartphones. The images show a similar models, one with a new design running Palm OS and another running Windows Mobile Standard (formerly WM Smartphone edition).

The blog Morning Paper first posted a blurry, black and white image of a supposed Palm Gandolf from a upcoming release list. The author claims the model runs Palm OS Garnet and will debut on Sprint later this year for around $200. Its likely specs include, EVDO (rev. A), Integrated camera, Bluetooth and a Micro SD expansion slot. The blog has since followed up with an additional color image of the device.

The strongest evidence for this device comes from a newly leaked live spy shot of a new Palm device, with a very similar design yet running Windows Mobile smartphone edition. If accurate, this would mark the first device using Windows Mobile standard from Palm. The Standard version of Windows Mobile does not use a touch-screen and supports a 320x240 display size.

The device clearly shows a Palm logo and prototype serial number along with Vodafone branding. It also has the home and back navigational buttons found on all Windows Mobile smartphone devices. The Vodafone mark indicates this is a GSM device which will be offered in Europe. No other details accompanied the picture.

Palm Windows Mobile Smartphone

Rumors posted earlier this week, showed the Treo 755p and Treo 800w heading to Verizon later this year. It is unclear at this time if the image above is the 800w or an entirely separate new model.

Thanks to Kris K. and SeldomVisitor for the tips.

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It's a nightmare?

Alfa @ 6/9/2007 6:12:15 PM # Q
First the Palm "Flopeo" then these ugly devices!
Are they crazy? What are they doing?
I hope these are only fakes and this is only a nightmare...

RE: It's a nightmare?
LiveFaith @ 6/10/2007 12:40:49 AM # Q
Are you crazy? It's obviously the Foleo smartfone companion companion. Now their 2 steps ahead.

Pat Horne
RE: It's a nightmare?
Haber @ 7/10/2007 8:11:14 PM # Q
I don't like the design. Unless you really look, it appears to be any Windows smartphone currently on the market.

Reply to this comment

Bwahahahahaha!!!

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2007 6:12:30 PM # Q
1 part Zire + 1 part Treo 600 + 8 parts hideous = yet another Palm flop.

W T F are Palm's managers thinking?

P.S. TVoR's FREE design consultant advice: An all-black color scheme makes even the dumbest designs look better.


TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/7864/#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8060/#111823

RE: Bwahahahahaha!!!
hkklife @ 6/9/2007 6:49:47 PM # Q
Agreed. I thought the Moto Q was hideous when it was first shown but miraculously, the midlife update of it in black really helped matters.

And look how the "Black Tie" Treo 650 jazzed up a 3 year old design!

A few initial questions/observations I have on this thing:


1. It looks a lot better in black than in white. I'm very worried about the feel of that d-pad. The 755p/750/680 have a very nice d-pad. I don't want to see a return to the, ahem, "condom ring" of the Z22 & LifeDrive.

2. The "youth market" can forget about gaming on this thing with that kind of button arrangement.

3. What sort of screen resolution do they have going on for the POS version? Maybe 'm just having a bad day but that does NOT appear to be 320x320. 480x320? That does NOT look like a SSS (small square screen).

4. I think Palm's going to do major cost-cutting on this one....no IR, small DBheap/cache, perhaps even no touchscreen. If they cut it down too much it'll end up languishing on store shelves like a low-end Zire. If the touchscreen is indeed gone, then what will that do to legacy app compatibility? I could also see Verizon and Sprint heavily subsidizing this thing in order to sell more of their overpriced data plan bundles (look how VZW pushed the Q strong from day 1).

For the other specs, I predict a slow (200mhz) CPU, 64mb RAM (~48 available to the user), the Treo 755p's removable battery, a microSD slot and an improved (ie Foleo-ready) BT 1.2 stack but still without A2DP. EVDO Rev-A sounds HIGHLY suspicious at this point but anything's possible from Palm.

5. If it doesn't have a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack I will scream. This is something DEMANDED by the "youth market". If any Treo yet has a chance of a proper headphone jack it's this one. In fact, that MIGHT be this device's main selling point.

6. If I were Palm I think I'd push the GSM version of this thing super hardcore as a $250ish unlocked device. Heck, sell it to the kids as PDA/mp3 player now and in 6 months they can pop in a SIM card and begin using it as a smartphone when their funds/parents permit it!

7. The first thing I thought when I saw the grainy B&W pic of this thing a few days ago was that it might be a sliding Treo. About 9 years I had a superb Qualcomm CDMA handset that had a sliding earpiece. It was VERY comfortable and very intuitive. It'd be nifty to see a variation of the T|T slider design on a Treo. Take the basic shape of this thing but give it a 320x480 screen (smaller size than the T3/T5/TX but same resolution). Then put the d-pad & all of the app/call buttons (the silver area on this Gandolf) in the slider area. When the slider is shut you just see the QWERTY board and the screen. That'd be the easiest way to squeeze a larger screen into the Treo formfactor while keeping the keyboard and still offer some rigidity while typing. And it wouldn't look TOO iPhoneish either!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Bwahahahahaha!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2007 10:31:36 PM # Q
This could become a solid device with the inclusion of:

- Treo 600 D-pad
- 64 MB user-accessible RAM
- Well-integrated MP3/video player that works with online music sites + YouTube, etc.
- Included online email account + PIM account/calendar that syncs with phone
- Included version of ChatterEmail
- Included version of Palm's threaded SMS application
- Included digital camera/videocamera
- All-black color scheme
- 3.5 mm headset jack on the top of the phone
- Stable Bluetooth
- EVDO
- Small size
- Light weight
- Long battery life
- Low price
- Good voice quality
- OS stability

If Palm is able to get the feature mix right, I'd consider buying one. Otherwise, I'll keep using my piece of sh!t Treo 700p (until it dies) as a backup to my amazing little Samsung i500. Unfortunately for the Treo franchaise, their raison d'etre is quickly disappearing as dumbphones like the latest Sony Ericssons, Samsungs and Nokias get "smarter and smarter".

TVoR


RE: Bwahahahahaha!!!
sims2k @ 6/10/2007 12:09:39 AM # Q
After waiting two years for a worthy upgrade to my Treo 650 I am beginning to think outside the box and go for the Blackberry 8830. Well...maybe I will hold on a little bit longer to see if this new Treo is worth waiting for.

RE: Bwahahahahaha!!!
freakout @ 6/10/2007 1:53:06 AM # Q
Ugh. What an ugly colour scheme. All-black, please!
RE: Bwahahahahaha!!!
BaalthazaaR @ 6/11/2007 11:36:40 AM # Q
Yeah I really liked the Samsung i500.... I can't believe that Samsung stopped making a similar model (the last one being the i539 for the Chinese market). The Kyocera 7135 was another nice phone. I wish it's screen hadn't cracked on me. My brother still has and uses his.
Reply to this comment

hmm a sliding Treo

VampireLestat @ 6/9/2007 7:24:05 PM # Q
You know, I had almost forgotten about the sliding T3.

If this Treo had a slider that reveals a 320x480, I might actually be interested.

RE: hmm a sliding Treo
VampireLestat @ 6/9/2007 7:27:12 PM # Q
The slider would have to have a lock-open (unlike the T3), OLED would be nice, and a little foot in the back to stand up the device.

Put all that together in a Treo and if you might have a popular device that accommodates both the Treo and handheld markets.

RE: hmm a sliding Treo
VampireLestat @ 6/9/2007 7:33:37 PM # Q
WiFi would have to be included and the dPad improved.

RE: hmm a sliding Treo
LiveFaith @ 6/9/2007 8:32:44 PM # Q
Vampy,

If it slid out to HVGA, then that thing would be 28" long. Look at all the non-screen real estate below the display. Too much for sliding another 1.5" or so. All MHO.

Pat Horne

RE: hmm a sliding Treo
Gekko @ 6/9/2007 9:27:47 PM # Q

VampireBoy - what is your obsession with OLED???



RE: hmm a sliding Treo
VampireLestat @ 6/10/2007 12:13:24 AM # Q
It is called 'visual clarity'.

- OLED uses less battery power.
- It has extremely wide viewing angles (so if you tilt left or right, you can still see , great for comfortable movie viewing).
- It is thinner than current TFT screens.
- Unlike TFT, if offers TRUE blacks. Also amazing for when viewing pictures or movies. Much more natural look onscreen
- Faster refresh rates, again for movies.

So why the hell isnt Palm selling devices with OLED?
Don't give me the cost argument because that doesnt stand up.
Sony has been offering to sell PDA OLEDs worldwide for years now.

Its just one of those dumb ass Palm things.

RE: hmm a sliding Treo
BaalthazaaR @ 6/11/2007 11:39:26 AM # Q
OLED costs are not coming down to the level that Palm would consider using. Also their life is much shorter than TFTs.
RE: hmm a sliding Treo
fierywater @ 6/15/2007 1:35:07 PM # Q
Sony may have used them in a few Japan-only PDAs, but the price reflected it.

If you've never used an OLED screen, then S T F U. Thank you.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/16/2007 7:45:51 AM # Q
Also their life is much shorter than TFTs.

Excuse me as I debunk more FUD:

Modern OLED screens have life expectancies that exceed the device's useful lifespan. Please stop regurgitating the BS you dined on elsewhere.

As one of the (select) few to own a CLIE VZ90 I'd have to say that people who have never used an OLED device really need to S T F U. The difference seen going from a regular screen to an OLED screen is similar to the change going from monochrome to color. Really.

TVoR

Reply to this comment

Wider screen?

millydog @ 6/9/2007 8:17:38 PM # Q
It looks like the screen is wider, perhaps 480x320, that is something that I look forward to in future Treo models. However, if these models are geared towards young consumers then I will wait for a more full-featured version. I am waiting to see what the Palm-Linux version is like when it arrives anyway and until then I am sticking with my trusty 650.
I do like touch screens and don't think that Palm should remove that feature (although it seems that they would have only removed it from the WinMob device and not the PalmOs device.

RE: Wider screen?
LiveFaith @ 6/9/2007 8:38:14 PM # Q
Yep. The 7W:6H ratio aint square, but it aint a QVGA or HVGA ratio either. I think the photoshop needs to be squeezed by about 15% to make it all look rite.

Pat Horne
RE: Wider screen?
hkklife @ 6/9/2007 10:25:49 PM # Q
Know what I'm betting? The POS version of this device will be 320x320 as usual, while the WinMob one will be like the Q et al and be 320x240. Now, the Palm version may have a higher resolution but physically smaller square screen in order to fit everything into the same formfactor.

Still, a true low-end Treo would've made MUCH more sense a year or two ago. But something like this is still a far better "extension" of the product line for Palm than a doomed leap of (live?) faith like the Foleo.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

The phone Palm NEEDED 2 or 3 YEARS ago...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2007 10:38:02 PM # Q
Still, a true low-end Treo would've made MUCH more sense a year or two ago. But something like this is still a far better "extension" of the product line for Palm than a doomed leap of (live?) faith like the Foleo.

Imagine if Palm had introduced this in 2005 with solid email/SMS/MP3? At a $300 pricetag? Sales would have gone through the roof and the company would have become a household name in the world of cellphones. And I doubt Palm would not have needed to spend the last year begging someone to buy the company.


TVoR

RE: Wider screen?
hkklife @ 6/9/2007 11:39:07 PM # Q
I know there are many, many "what if" scenarios that we can play with Palm and their...usually questionable choices over the past 7 years or so. But one of the most telling ones was the tragic 18 months between the Treo 650 release and that of the 700p. Palm SHOULD have followed up on the 650 with the 700p (in a bug-free state, no less) in fall '05 if not sooner (as soon as the CDMA carriers' started having decent EVDO coverage, in fact). Then this new low-end Gandolf device should then have come out in '05 or early '06. Priced poperly and with strong e-mail/SMS/mp3 support (as Voice says) it would've been a huge home run, regardless of its color or questionable styling.


But to come out in fall '07 or later.....that's just too little, too late. Now, I'm not saying this will be a total failure. It's just a shame Palm didn't break from the hopelessly tired Treo 600-derived designs at least two years ago.

Ya know what other dirty little thought I had?
Palm should release a FrankenGarnet version of this Treo (branded as a Palm WX or something) with wi-fi instead of a cellular radio and a larger LCD. Sell it at retail for $200ish and position it as a Mylo-style chat/IM machine that also can play games and do "multimedia stuff". Heck, throw in some VOIP software in the box and--Bingo!--there's your instant T|C successor and something to keep the Foleo company on the retail shelves.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Screen Sizes Interchangeable
LiveFaith @ 6/10/2007 1:28:59 AM # Q
Check this out.

The white Vodaphone (GSM) model with the WMstd screenshot & different app keys has a landscape QVGA.
It has greater wasted space above the screen to the top of the device, and below the screen to the app/phone "belt". Also, the space from the outside edges of the display to the sides is less. It sports a landscape screen.


The black unbranded model is obviously a digitally enhanched touchup.
If it's an actual rendering of the device, then look at the screen in proportion with the device. The upper and lower areas are lessened by the taller screen, and the outside edges are increased due to the thinner square screen. The actual photo has a 7:6 screen ratio, but the screen shot is obviously added on digitally, just like they do most web images. Looks like I'm the only one with genuine photos round here.
The black device uses the 320x320 square display and Palm OS, hopefully the Linux version unless Palm is shifting FrankyG to the entry levels and Plinux to the upper line and Foleo Monster Laptop Killer.

Note. The black device has palm directly in front of the phone speaker, whereas the WinMob version has the logo to the left and an obvious speaker indention. The black device looks smoothly rounded at the top edges, while the white has the little rolled lip.

Note v2.0. Palm is obviously soon to release this device. Their "leak machine" is acting like normal. Trickling out a few unclear shots here and there to create a buzz, before the announcement.

Note v3.0. Looks like the front face of the device is flat. I wonder if the rear is shaped with a rounded form, in keeping with the rounded edges.

Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

i kind of like it

Gekko @ 6/9/2007 9:16:51 PM # Q

i really do. the exterior got a major overhaul but what's lacking is the OS. same old FrankeGarnet. look at the screenshot - when was the last time FrankenGarnet got a major overhaul? this phone's OS is still a slumbering turd.

Reply to this comment

Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!

LiveFaith @ 6/9/2007 9:25:19 PM # Q
This is the connected Z22 we've been waiting for. Everybody around here slammed the little red headed stepchildren Zire & Z22. But, those babies sold. Not to us power freaks but to a muuuuuch larger market.

A few notes ...
#1 the pics do not show a square, but a 7:6 ratio screen (just do the measuring). Either Palm is releasing a strange new screen size or these pix need some adjusting.

#2 Looks like Vodaphone stamped on the front of the white one. GSM huhhhhh?

#3 These "waste" a lot of frontal area for such a small screen. I hope they are thin.

#4 The colors and form factor will work for the younger crowd. This aint for the stuffed shirts. They get the power of Foleo! :-D

#5 The white one also has strange screen shot. I'm sure these babies are running on the New Palm OS. That one may be WinMob tho, and standard which means no touchscreen? If no touchscreen, then PalmLinux must handle everything by the keypad. Garnet, even PalmIncanized does not.

#6 Looks like the antiquated 755-700-650 phone app. Maybe this is a test unit?

************** **************

** Palm can make a mint in no time by just doing the following. Of course they won't but nonetheless here I go ...

... simply market and advertise this iPod killer with a bundled 2GB SD mini, and AD2P with low cost stereo WIRELESS headphones. Advertise the "MP3 without the wires". Even slap Apple around a little for leaving you "bound by the wires". Show the sillouette without the wires! 99% of the target market doesn't even know AD2P or Softick even exist. They just see the iPod at school and the mall. I'm telling you Palm it will be huge and you could seize some serious publicity and market share. And it even lets you text and make calls!!! Woohoo!

Musts ...
1. keep the price really low on the carrier shelves

2. bundle the 1GB, 2GB or up 8GB card with the unit. Or even market it as flex-storage and have optional price points at purchase. Give the SD-mini card a trendy name like "flex storage" or "music bank" or "mega chip" or somebody figure it out! Offer the SDs in fluorescent colors, camo, or to match the phone. Even make it a marketing point that "this is no locked in MP3 player, this baby has limitless storage". Just pop in another card or better yet pop in a friends and share". Help me Lord Jesus! They could sell a gazillion

3. Make the MP3 sync and usage foolproof and dumb-simple. Can we download right off the web via broadband? Can it sync iTunes directly? (maybe that's a stretch?) Whatever. It's gotta be simple and painless. It should even be a selling point.

4. Texting has gotta be awesome, solid and powerful, not to mention right at your findertips. Advertise it with the tunes kickin in bg while texting all your friends. They'll eat it alive!

5. Needs a cam / vid too. And ohhh, if you could surf and play on YouTube, you could take over the world one teen at a time.

Market this as a Cam-Phone+MP3+Text in cool colors and storage options. Palm OS, Linux, SD-mini, bluetooth and all that other tekky terminology should be thrown out the window. The sweetspot of this market don't care. They just wanna communicate and be communicated to in style, and in momma's budget.

Do it Palm and you'll not only be back in the news, but you'll get some serious cash flow. Send me a little cut too.


Pat Horne

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
Gekko @ 6/9/2007 9:30:28 PM # Q

it actually looks like a Pat Horne photochop created while experiencing an 80's acid flashback.



Amen, Brother Pat!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2007 10:08:33 PM # Q
This is the connected Z22 we've been waiting for. Everybody around here slammed the little red headed stepchildren Zire & Z22. But, those babies sold. Not to us power freaks but to a muuuuuch larger market.

They sold because of (low) price and (clean) design. This phone is hideous, though an all-black versio would probably look OK. The market for this phone is the 16 - 30 year olds that eat up products like the iPod nano, LG Chocolate, Apple iPhone, Scion xB. Clean lines, simple design and dark colors = cool style. STYLE SELLS. Why would any company handicap a new product by making it look ugly? W T F is wrong with Palm? They're acting like HndEra! (Remember the HandEra 330?)

A few notes ...
#1 the pics do not show a square, but a 7:6 ratio screen (just do the measuring). Either Palm is releasing a strange new screen size or these pix need some adjusting.

Photo distortion.

#3 These "waste" a lot of frontal area for such a small screen. I hope they are thin.

A slightly larger screen and the Treo 600/700p D-pad with smaller app buttons would have made more sense. And licensing Launcher X, Comet, Directory Assistant, Google Maps, HandyShopper, DiddleBug (for touchscreen version), AeroPlayer, RescoViewer and TCPMP would make the software pretty solid right out of the box.

#4 The colors and form factor will work for the younger crowd. This aint for the stuffed shirts. They get the power of Foleo! :-D

I'll trade them 3 FOOLeos for an all-black ("Black Tie") version of this phone.

#6 Looks like the antiquated 755-700-650 phone app. Maybe this is a test unit?

Or maybe Palm is just being... Palm.

************** **************

** Palm can make a mint in no time by just doing the following. Of course they won't but nonetheless here I go ...

... simply market and advertise this iPod killer with a bundled 2GB SD mini, and AD2P with low cost stereo WIRELESS headphones. Advertise the "MP3 without the wires". Even slap Apple around a little for leaving you "bound by the wires". Show the sillouette without the wires! 99% of the target market doesn't even know AD2P or Softick even exist. They just see the iPod at school and the mall. I'm telling you Palm it will be huge and you could seize some serious publicity and market share. And it even lets you text and make calls!!! Woohoo!

AMEN, Brother!

Musts ...
1. keep the price really low on the carrier shelves

AMEN!

2. bundle the 1GB, 2GB or up 8GB card with the unit. Or even market it as flex-storage and have optional price points at purchase. Give the SD-mini card a trendy name like "flex storage" or "music bank" or "mega chip" or somebody figure it out! Offer the SDs in fluorescent colors, camo, or to match the phone. Even make it a marketing point that "this is no locked in MP3 player, this baby has limitless storage". Just pop in another card or better yet pop in a friends and share". Help me Lord Jesus! They could sell a gazillion

AMEN! Ship it with a 2 GB Neon Yellow "SoundCard®".

3. Make the MP3 sync and usage foolproof and dumb-simple. Can we download right off the web via broadband? Can it sync iTunes directly? (maybe that's a stretch?) Whatever. It's gotta be simple and painless. It should even be a selling point.

AMEN! Loading MP3s and videos should be idiot-proof. (But Palm's codemonkeys are too clueless to make this work. Once iPhone blows Palm away with its integration and syncing prowess, Palm will probably release a buggy, helf-hearted attempt to improve syncing.

4. Texting has gotta be awesome, solid and powerful, not to mention right at your findertips. Advertise it with the tunes kickin in bg while texting all your friends. They'll eat it alive!

AMEN! I don't understand why Palm's brilliant threaded SMS client isn't being hyped more. This phone could be pushed as an MP3 player, SMS/email device (can you say included version of ChatterEmail?) that also happens to be a broadband web browser... AND PHONE.

5. Needs a cam / vid too. And ohhh, if you could surf and play on YouTube, you could take over the world one teen at a time.

AMEN!

Market this as a Cam-Phone+MP3+Text in cool colors and storage options. Palm OS, Linux, SD-mini, bluetooth and all that other tekky terminology should be thrown out the window. The sweetspot of this market don't care. They just wanna communicate and be communicated to in style, and in momma's budget.

AMEN!

Do it Palm and you'll not only be back in the news, but you'll get some serious cash flow. Send me a little cut too.


Pat Horne

Actually, those checks should be payable to TVoR, Inc...


TVoR

RE: HTC called. It wants the Excalibur back
Foo Fighter @ 6/9/2007 10:37:16 PM # Q
simply market and advertise this iPod killer with a bundled 2GB SD mini, and AD2P with low cost stereo WIRELESS headphones.

Oh good god, could we please stop using this tired phrase...especially where Palm is concerned? The only thing this device is going to kill is its creator. An appropriate name might be the Palm Imploder 800w.

Anyone who would believe that any such product from Palm is capable of challenging, let alone killing, iPod has been using PalmOS too long. No one wants PalmOS anymore. The Palm-powered logo is now a product warning label, not a mark of excellence.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

Rabid Apple Cultist attacks preacherman. Film at 11
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/9/2007 10:58:44 PM # Q
Oh good god, could we please stop using this tired phrase...especially where Palm is concerned? The only thing this device is going to kill is its creator. An appropriate name might be the Palm Imploder 800w.

Anyone who would believe that any such product from Palm is capable of challenging, let alone killing, iPod has been using PalmOS too long. No one wants PalmOS anymore. The Palm-powered logo is now a product warning label, not a mark of excellence.

Kent, try not to be such an Apple-flavored-Kool-Aid-swilling Drama Queen.

The only thing wrong with Palm is that they have repeatedly failed to capitalize on obvious advantages that the company possessed. Even now, with minimal effort, Palm could produce a device that makes more sense than an iPod. While nothing but time will truely "kill" the iPod (the standalone MP3 player niche is living on borrowed time), Palm is perfectly positioned to move MP3 players to the next level. Of course, Apple has already anticipated this change and will likely also offer phoneless versions of the iPhone in an effort to keep the MP3 player segment alive.

If you Apple Cultists would look up from feverishly licking Steve Jobs' boots once in a while you'd realize that Appple actually isn't all that special. Smarmy "Svengali" Steve Jobs' company's main asset is not so much designing cutting edge products, but rather marketing nicely styled, overpriced gear to people with more fashion sense than brains.

Get back to work, Bubba. Steve says his boots are drying out...


TVoR

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
Foo Fighter @ 6/9/2007 11:34:05 PM # Q
Even now, with minimal effort, Palm could produce a device that makes more sense than an iPod.

Not with the software they're peddling now they can't. You're the one knocking back one too many glasses of Chateau Le Kool-Aid if you believe Garnet in all its antiquated glory can honestly stand up to well designed software from Apple. Forget fanboy allegiances, we're talking logic here. Garnet can't even run my phone reliably. It's shit. And you think from this Palm can develop a killer product that consumers would want? My magic 8-ball says Not Likely.

You seem to forget, no one wants PalmOS anymore. Users and developers have abandoned the platform in favor of a better software experience. Anecdotally, everyone I know personally that once owned a Treo has since migrated to BlackBerries.

Palm isn't capable of creating innovative software. They're a follower, not a leader. And they can't even execute that strategy well. Give them another two years and they'll deliver a product that will beat the original iPod. Just you wait.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
hkklife @ 6/9/2007 11:45:13 PM # Q
Kent;

You just sold your TX on Fleabay, right? Do you still own/use any POS devices?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
LiveFaith @ 6/10/2007 12:32:17 AM # Q
Kent,

The dose of Foleo applied liberally to the forehead can heal Garnet Anger Syndrome (Gas). Help is on the way. :-D

Pat Horne

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
freakout @ 6/10/2007 12:45:27 AM # Q
Palm isn't capable of creating innovative software. They're a follower, not a leader.

Oh, rubbish. A perfect example is the Treo's SMS/MMS app: after all these years it's still the best messaging app on the planet. Even Apple have recognized this. iPhone's threaded messaging looks identical. (Albeit a heck of a lot glossier.)

Apple Cultist blinded by Steve Jobs' halo... Oh the humanity!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/10/2007 2:45:58 AM # Q
>>>Even now, with minimal effort, Palm could produce a device that makes more sense than an iPod.

Not with the software they're peddling now they can't.

No one is saying that Palm's current software offerings on its devices are cohesive. The point is that with little effort, Palm can put together a hardware and software package that makes more sense than an iPod.

You're the one knocking back one too many glasses of Chateau Le Kool-Aid if you believe Garnet in all its antiquated glory can honestly stand up to well designed software from Apple.

If you think TVoR has ever swilled Kool-Aid then you really need to buy a vowel. What you don't seem to understand is that hardware and software don't need to be perfect, they only need to be "good enough"; the hardware look pretty enough; and be offered at a cheap enough price to tempt potential customers. The average user is fairly clueless, so simplicity and reliability are the key. These design features USED to be the hallmark of Palm's offerings. The intuitive design of the iPod OS (which Apple never even designed) is what we should have been seeing coming out of Palm had they decided to continue to innovate rather than simply sitting back and lining their pockets with money in the go-go 90s and early 2000s.

Forget fanboy allegiances, we're talking logic here. Garnet can't even run my phone reliably. It's shit. And you think from this Palm can develop a killer product that consumers would want? My magic 8-ball says Not Likely.

FrankenPalmOS is indeed horribly behind the times, but with a little effort and the right applications, it can be set up to reliably do most of the things that 99% of users would be looking to do with a mobile device.
Give users a device that out-of-the-box has:
- A stable OS. After five years, there's NO excuse for Palm to be shipping a device with an unstable version of PalmOS 5. Just because the codemonkeys Palm employed were butchering PalmOS doesn't mean that PalmOS is irreversibly broken. With the right troop of codemonkeys and a little TLC, PalmOS can regain its former glory (admittedly only if it keeps its sights low).
- An intuitive MP3 player application. The touchscreen and D-pad should be exploited to allow navigation that rivals the iPod's ease-of-use.
- A tabbed launcher. The simplicity of an application like Launcher X makes Palm's default launcher look like it joke.
- A stable video player with a full suite of codecs. Palm can already handle video better than iPods, but no one other than techies are aware of this fact.
- An iTunes-like application with easy syncing of media from desktop and/or the Internet.
- And intuitive listing program like HandyShopper.
- A solid email program like ChatterEmail (coming Real Soon Now thanks to Palm buying out ChatterEmail)...
- A solid SMS application like Palm's current threaded SMS program.
- A solid file manager like Resco Explorer.
- A solid photo viewer like Resco Viewer.
- A solid backup application like Resco Backup
- A solid web browser like NetFront.
- A proper security application like TealLock.
- Reasonable battery life.
- A nice-looking screen.
- Trial/freeware versions of software (that can be fully deleted) like VideoHound, Zagat To Go, Vindigo, Ultrasoft Money, TealAuto, Vexed, Wine Guide, Weatherman, etc.

You seem to forget, no one wants PalmOS anymore. Users and developers have abandoned the platform in favor of a better software experience.

Bullsh!t. Users and developers have abandoned the platform because Palm abandoned the platform. When was the last time Palm released a new PDA? Has Palm released a new smart phone in the past four years significantly different than the Treo 600? When was a last time we saw any interesting designs in the PalmOS world like the tiny, Lexus-quality, magnesium clamshelled CLIE UX50 or OLED-screened CLIE VZ90? The answer to those questions is why users and developers have abandoned the platform.

Anecdotally, everyone I know personally that once owned a Treo has since migrated to BlackBerries.

Anecdotally, most of the people that live in my old neighborhood are lesbian/gay. Does that mean that everyone in the world is also lesbian/gay? Try again, Kent.

Palm isn't capable of creating innovative software.

Some have claimed that several of Palm's best codemonkeys were siphoned off to work on the FOOLeo. Based on the stunning lack of software evidently developed for this device thus far, that's not exactly reassuring, but perhaps the company has the potential to deliver better software once they regain their focus. But if they can't develop software in-house, there are plenty of off-the-shelf best-of-breed applications that Palm could easily license. ChatterEmail is a prime example of Palm buying a solution that they were not smart enough to be able to come up with themselves. While it's disappointing to hear that a single individual (Marc Blank) was able to come up with an email application FAR superior to anything that Palm's troops of codemonkeys were able to develop, it's also nice to know that with the right talent it doesn't take a lot of people to be able to come up with good PalmOS software. Palm would be wise to start pruning the dead wood from their company and reinvest the money in licensing applications that will provide users with a better out of box experience.

They're a follower, not a leader.

NEWSFLASH: Palm has always been a follower. But as Microsoft has shown repeatedly, sometimes it's okay to be a follower, as long as you're able to either improve on whatever the leaders have done before you or else if you are able to leverage your dominant position to allow your "good enough" copycat software to dominate those that came before you. The arrogance of Apple led to the downfall of the Newton, but now we've seen the same fate befall Palm. History repeats...

And they can't even execute that strategy well.

Palm has been run into the ground by a series of arrogant, lazy managers. A changing of the guard might reverse this trend before it's too late. Personally, I believe the combination of the upcoming iPhone and the distraction/resource wasting of the FOOLeo may prove fatal unless Palm's management aggressively and immediately reorganizes the company.

Give them another two years and they'll deliver a product that will beat the original iPod. Just you wait.

;-O

Sorry, but I won't be waiting. I'm quite happy with my old-school 512 MB and 1 GB iRiver MP3 players. I wouldn't touch one of those horrid-sounding iPods if you gave one to me for free.

Even though I believe that for most people convergence is the future, I'm finding that I continue to use single focus devices for most activities because I'm not willing to put up with the compromises currently imposed by convergence devices. While I would rather carry a separate MP3 player than listen to music stuttering through my Treo 700p, I'm sure that it won't be long before converged devices require few - if any - compromises. If Palm bothers to invest a little money in upgrading the design, specs and construction of the Treo lineup, it has a good chance to become the first company that puts out a device that ideally integrates several device categories (MP3 player, portable video player, radio, email device, instant messaging device, SMS device, Web browser, cell phone, pager, digital camera, digital camcorder, alarm clock, watch, GPS device, file transporter, entertainment guide, telephone book, etc.). Palm's biggest problem right now is that the iPhone has the advantage of both style and a company (Apple) that understands user interfaces and obviously won't sit on its a$$ for 10 years watching the competition pass it by.


Anyone wanna bet on how this is all gonna turn out?

TVoR sees the Elevation deal a LOT like the recent deal to buy out Chrysler. Right down to the facts that the newcomers are spending very little of their OWN money on the deals and that both Mercedes and Palm have been DESPERATELY looking for victims suitors for a loooooooong time. Expect a LOT of changes in the upcoming months at Palm. You have been warned...


TVoR

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
joad @ 6/10/2007 6:30:26 PM # Q
>>Palm isn't capable of creating innovative software. They're a follower, not a leader.

>>>>>Oh, rubbish. A perfect example is the Treo's SMS/MMS app: after all these years it's still the best messaging app on the planet.

IMHO it's a piece of cr@p: it has the unfortunate "feature" of sending your texts directly to some unfortunate person in Korea if you use "*82" in your address book to unblock the caller ID. Palm refuses to fix it with some simple scripting (still, on the 755!).

Also, it "nicely" hides your destination phone number in favor of the person's name... further obscuring the expensive bug mentioned in the first paragraph.

Perhaps the messaging program has it's merits over others, I've only sent text on the Treo. But when a program has such glaring (and expensive) problems, the programmers are well aware of it and refuse to fix it with some simple filters or programming, then I have to agree with the comments of the original poster above: "Palm isn't capable of creating innovative software." At least - not anymore. It's always been the third-party developers that have saved them from disaster time after time.

RE: Impressions + How to make a Mint!!!
freakout @ 6/11/2007 2:34:11 AM # Q
That sounds annoying - although I've never had that problem before, 'cause I see no reason to block my caller ID from people (are you a debt collector, joad? :P ), and if I ever did need to there's a checkbox for on/off in the phone app - but it's a nitpick, not a showstopping bug.

Also, it "nicely" hides your destination phone number in favor of the person's name... further obscuring the expensive bug mentioned in the first paragraph.

It's not "hiding" anything. Notice how the names in the To and From fields are hyperlinked? Poke them. Look ma, a phone number! And if the person who is messaging you back isn't in your Contacts, then it will appear as just the phone number. I really don't see the big deal...

Perhaps the messaging program has it's merits over others, I've only sent text on the Treo. But when a program has such glaring (and expensive) problems

Oh please. Glaring? I bet 99% of the people reading this have never even heard of this bug till you mentioned it!

It's got plenty of merits, by the by: threaded messaging is the nicest part, but the Treo's large screen (compared to most other phones), the easy one-handed navigation, the simple-as-pie media messaging... it makes everything so damn easy, which is what you need on a small device like a phone. For such a simple, basic function it amazes me that so many companies can't get messaging right.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

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Folding?

dhaupert @ 6/9/2007 10:47:14 PM # Q
Is it just me or is there a seam right along the mid line of the d-pad? It looks like the dpad, and the send and end buttons won't fold over, but the keypad will. Perhaps on the other side is a normal phone keypad. That would be pretty sweet and innovative a design.

But I hate the two tone- hate when devices do that- the excalibur from HTC has that and it just ruins an otherwise attractive phone.

re: screen res, I'm guessing it's 320 x 240 for the Smartphone OS. On Palm OS, I recall the Handera units running 320x240 though the other orientation, but I'm guess it might be possible.
A 320 x 480 would be nice however and go toe to toe with the iphone.

Thanks,
Dave Haupert
dhaupert@ddhsoftware.com

RE: Folding?
LiveFaith @ 6/10/2007 1:30:57 AM # Q
No. One folding release disaster per month is the limit.

Pat Horne
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