MobileInfocenter

Access Linux Platform SDK Released

Access Linux Platform SDKAccess today announced general availability of its SDK and development tools for the Access Linux Platform. The company has also released a Garnet VM Compatibility Kit in conjunction with the new developer tools, which enables developers to test their Palm OS Garnet applications' compatibility with ALP.

In addition to the SDK, the company has announced some major new partnerships. Access is joining Orange in joining the LiMo Foundation, a non-profit organization working to create a cross compatible mobile Linux software platform. Access has also announced new partnerships with Wind River Systems and MontaVista Software.

Access Linux Platform SDK

The ACCESS Linux Platform Development Suite is now immediately available to all registered members of the ACCESS Developer Network. The Development Suite is a complete, integrated development environment (IDE) that leverages open source tools such as Eclipse and Glade, integrated and extended for the needs of mobile applications. The ALP Development Suite includes all the necessary components, tools, samples and documentation to develop, run, test and debug native applications for mobile devices based on the ACCESS Linux Platform.

The ALP SDK kit includes:

  • A complete Eclipse-based set of development tools
  • The Glade 3 Interface Editor for GTK Apps
  • The ACCESS Linux Platform Simulator which runs on the Linux desktop and provides seamless application debugging
  • A Compilation Toolchain: gcc, linker and gdb
  • The VirtualPhone Tool which simulates a carrier network for telephony applications
  • Scratchbox, which enables command-line development and cross-compilation for ARM device targets
  • Headers and libraries
  • How-To Documentation and an Integrated API Reference

Garnet VM Compatibility Kit
Also freely downloadable from the newly created ADN Portal is the ACCESS Garnet VM Compatibility Kit, a stand-alone kit enabling developers to test their ACCESS Garnet OS-based applications' compatibility with ACCESS Linux Platform. The ACCESS Garnet VM provides the ability to run existing ACCESS Garnet OS (formerly known as Palm OS Garnet) applications on the ACCESS Linux Platform.

Access Linux Platform Demo Device"We have a great history building a successful developer ecosystem and supporting mobile developers," said Larry Berkin, senior director developer ecosystem & technology acquisition, ACCESS Systems Americas, Inc. "By making the ACCESS Linux Platform Development Suite and ACCESS Garnet VM Compatibility Kit freely available, we begin building and growing a robust mobile Linux application ecosystem benefiting developers, operators and handset manufacturers while providing end users a choice of market-ready applications."

Successfully field-tested by select ISVs since early 2007, the ACCESS Linux Platform Development Suite has also been productively used by developers creating mobile applications for the Orange Application Package for ACCESS Linux Platform that is part of the Orange Signature strategy intended to deliver a consistent customer experience across a variety of devices and applications.

The newly created ACCESS Developer Network Portal is a community-driven website designed to stimulate development of mobile applications for ALP. In addition to technical tools and documentation, ADN provides new social networking features to facilitate developer community interaction via discussion forums and feedback mechanisms that include a bug tracking and feature request system.

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Another wheel invented

Geezer @ 2/12/2008 4:18:25 AM # Q
Access Linux Platform,
Palm's Linux
Android

All the same but different. Oh they all have a common feature, none of them support Flash for the the present and for quite a lot of the future too.


RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/12/2008 5:26:28 AM # Q
Where did you get the idea that we don't support Flash on ALP...?

RE: Another wheel invented
WareW01f @ 2/12/2008 9:00:00 AM # Q
Well, unfortunately, baring any huge announcements that I'm not yet privy to, you are going to see a Android handset quite a while before either of the other two. Which is very sad. Someone really needs to knock Palm upside the head and get them to fly right. They seem to have *no* issue giving Microsoft cash for an OS, yet the greed kicks in with ACCESS?? Drop ALP on the GSM Centro (no hardware mods, just flash the OS) and SHIP THE DAMN THING see how it does.

Can't be a bigger flop than the Folio. Or wait until Google is releasing a FREE phone OS that all of the carriers are shipping on their self branded phones that *blow* Palm's fantasy Linux away (and for half the price.... with Palm 6 months to a year too late to the market)

On the ACCESS front. The focus seems to be Asia and I which them well. I'm still a bit confused about how all these MVNOs seem to get phones made/brought into the US and they haven't managed it in how many revs, but perhaps that hasn't been a push.

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/12/2008 10:42:20 AM # Q
Orange is a European carrier, not an Asian one.

RE: Another wheel invented
Geezer @ 2/12/2008 12:01:12 PM # Q
Because Palm(source) has never seen the need for Flash before - let alone be prepared to shell out for any license or bundle it, make it a standard that can be developed for. They've had ARM processors since the original Tungsten T and never worked with Macromedia, so forgive me, but this time its Adobe and Linux and I bet they still don't do a thing.
Anyway, what's all this 'we' are you in the know or actually Mr Big himself?

RE: Another wheel invented
twrock @ 2/12/2008 12:30:47 PM # Q
Where did you get the idea that we don't support Flash on ALP...

You've been away far too long, David. Have you forgotten how we like to make up the facts as we go along here in the PIC news forum? It saves us from having to deal with reality.

Welcome back.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Another wheel invented
jeffhoward001 @ 2/12/2008 1:28:09 PM # Q
Let's be honest... We all love Palm, but Android is going to be a serious competitor, hands down. That said, there are definitely some chinks in Google's armor though. First, they say the phone's going to be free, but they haven't released any details on that business model yet. Chances are it will get a lot of attention, but who knows if the average business user (which still comprises the lions share of the "smartphone" market) will want to buy into that business model. Yes, it is true that the smartphone market is still a small percentage of the overall handheld market, but I think those are two separate issues. Palm's just in the beginning stages at marketing to the broader handheld market with the Centro, and that seems to be going well, even with PalmOS (which is another point I'll make at the end-users).

Second, Android looks cool so far, but as shown with Windows Mobile, who knows if the market will like it. Look at how much money Microsoft has thrown into Windows Mobile over the years, and they're still just a small percentage of the market. WM6 is a great product, but a lot of people still just don't "like" the WM experience. I'm sure Google will learn from Microsoft's mistakes in that area, but there's no denying that smartphone users are loyal and downright picky about their phone OS.(completely opposite of normal handheld users, which I'll talk more about below).

So why doesn't Palm just go with ALP or Android on their handhelds? Someone mentioned earlier that is was greed... I don't think it has anything to do with that. I think the root of the decision probably came out of analyzing what's been "core" to the company over the years, and there's no two ways about it, a "Palm OS" is core to a Palm. People seem to like the WM versions of the Treo, but that business line isn't taking Palm anywhere except down the road of a competing on thin margins with some major competitors. As far as the smartphone market goes, I think making their own custom OS and device that really feels like a "Palm" is the only route they have right now. It they just re-brand WM and/or ALP and/or Android devices, they're going to get their guts stomped out my all the other cell phone companies doing the exact same thing.

As for the handheld (non smartphone) market? It's tough to say if their own OS will buy them much. I don't know enough about what makes consumers in that market tick... The main drivers I see are price, ease of use, and stability (roughly in that order). Can a new Palm OS really aid in those goals? Maybe, since using your own OS is a little cheaper (in the long run), and if it's true to the original "Palm", is should be pretty easy to use. Aside from that, my experience has been that the standard handheld market doesn't seem to care at all about what OS the phone uses. I think that partly explains the success of the Centro. Palm gave the handheld market something cute, fast, cheap (relatively), and with a richer set of features than the average handheld. I really doubt the average handheld user will trample the OS like Palm power users do, and as such, the Centro will be a stable device for the average user.

All things considered, I'm not saying that another "wheel" will be enough to make Palm a major competitor again, but I am saying that it's their best bet for survival right now.

- Jeff

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo-mini??(like an LD-II with a small attached keyboard??)

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/12/2008 4:14:13 PM # Q
You've been away far too long, David.

Oh, busy, busy. As you can see from the range of announcements and such coming out of MWC...

Have you forgotten how we like to make up the facts as we go along here in the PIC news forum?

Oh, yeah, that's right! I remember now!
—Bill Cort as "Veronica's Dad" in Heathers

It saves us from having to deal with reality.

Experience shows that reality tends to deal, it its own ways, with those who won't deal with it on their own initiative...

Welcome back.

Thanks.


RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/12/2008 4:19:33 PM # Q
Because Palm(source) has never seen the need for Flash before...

I don't know anything about what Palm or (source) do, but ACCESS has supported Flash in NetFront for a good while now.

Adobe does insist that device manufacturers execute a license with them for such support. Go figure, huh?

...this time its Adobe and Linux and I bet they still don't do a thing.

Oh, yeah? How much are you willing to put on that proposition?


RE: Another wheel invented
SeldomVisitor @ 2/12/2008 4:42:31 PM # Q
I use Ubuntu on one of my boxes with Firefox as my browser.

Am I simply imagining something or does YouTube work fine thereon?

[though, admittedly, I cannot DEVELOP Flash software thereon, AFAIK]

RE: Another wheel invented
Geezer @ 2/13/2008 3:46:27 AM # Q
Oh, yeah? How much are you willing to put on that proposition?

Like everybody else, surprise surprise, the price of a new device.
But I just heard that Flash is coming to the iPhone. For the average user here in the UK, the iPhone remains ridiculously expensive with the device costing the user 269 plus at least 35 per month for eighteen months contract.
If they bring that down and it has Flash combined with Safari which is a much better browser than NetFront I can't see much competition.
They're even talking about fixing the Exchange Server support for the iPhone so really what has Palm got that the iPhone doesn't? Oh true, I give you the interface is very different.
So regrettably, I can't see myself really willing to put that much into 'the proposition' unless, of course, as an insider, you know something more...

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/13/2008 1:14:02 PM # Q
As "an insider", I know plenty more, but as a professional, I won't be sharing most of it.

Sorry, nature of the business we're in. The iPhone is an underpowered, overpriced low-end 2.5G feature phone with an admittedly snazzy user interface (which will be widely duplicated by Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, LG and others to the best of their abilities quite soon, I'm sure).

I also hear, after the initial rush, the bottom's pretty much dropped out there: Apple's cut production substantially for the next quarter, and there are evidently somewhere between a half million and three times that many iPhones languishing in various carriers' inventory...


RE: Another wheel invented
mikecane @ 2/13/2008 2:10:34 PM # Q
>>>Apple's cut production substantially for the next quarter, and there are evidently somewhere between a half million and three times that many iPhones languishing in various carriers' inventory...

Christ, ACCESS must *really* be desperate to promulgate *that* total BS.

http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/what-if-the-iphonetouch-sdk-is-delayed/

Let's see how you spin next month.

And I expect you'll have a nice pink slip for Xmas as ACCESS throws in the towel.

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/13/2008 2:24:28 PM # Q
Heh. Keep whistling past that graveyard, fan-boi.

Toni Sacconaghi of Bernstein Research and Barron's (http://online.barrons.com/article/SB120130794713218339.html?mod=googlenews_barrons) say differently, as did Steve Wozniak (http://www.iphoneworld.ca/news/2008/01/31/wozniak-whats-needed-for-iphone-to-reach-its-10million-target/). Reports of stagnant iPhone sales in Europe are all over the place (http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/01/20/apple-aapl-iphone-sales-disappoint-in-uk/). CNET reports that they're sitting on the shelves at the AT&T stores (http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9857622-37.html?tag=nefd.blgs).

Not to mention no 3G support, no SDK...

So, where's your support for the "total BS" claim, Mikey...? Trot it on out, by all means.

And I expect you'll have a nice pink slip for Xmas as ACCESS throws in the towel.

How much are you willing to put behind that expectation? Are you offering odds?


'iPod Air'....? C'mon, This Makes No Sense.
akalefty @ 2/13/2008 6:06:14 PM # Q
By the way, Mike, I left a comment on your blog, but it's worth pointing out here that your theory (that Apple has dramatically cut its orders for parts for the iPhone and iPod Touch in the coming quarter to address the expected "self-cannibalization" of those devices when Apple introduces the vaporous iBook tablet, which you're referring to as the "iPod Air") doesn't really make a lick of sense.

To constitute a tablet iBook, the device in question would have to run real OS X, I'd think. This would place a pretty good lower limit on screen size at, say, no less than nine inches. An ARM processor is going to seem pretty pokey running full-blown OS X, so it'd presumably have to be an Intel-based device. That's going to place lower limits on battery size and upper limits on active usage time, particularly for a WiFi-enabled (and GSM-enabled...?) device.

Now, how's a device like this going to "cannibalize" the iPhone? Can you hold it up to your face to make a phone call? Or do you only use the Bluetooth ear bud and carry the thing around under your arm...? That'll be a hit at parties and on dates. Unless you've got really big pockets, it's not going to replace your extremely portable iPod Touch, either.

Now, maybe it's smaller. Just based on screen costs--do you have any actual sense what a capacitive touchscreen costs and how fast those costs go up as the size increases...?--it'd have to be a whole lot smaller to hit a price point anything near that of an iPod Touch. Like...about the size of an iPod Touch. So what's it offer beyond what the Touch does that it would cannibalize it?

Now, even assuming that it's more or less the size of a Touch or an iPhone, if it's going to cannibalize the iPhone, it's gotta to be phone, I'd think. And if it's going to cannibalize the iPod Touch, it's gotta have a flash-based "disk", yes?

So, if Apple's trimming all their orders way back, what exactly is it that they're going to be building this device out of...? Gossamer?

"iPod Air", indeed.

RE: Another wheel invented
mikecane @ 2/13/2008 9:14:32 PM # Q
I saw your post. Do you think I don't read my own blog or that I'd disallow the post? (I've only disallowed posts that are clearly spam and one nutter who left nothing but cuss words with no other point.)

>>>How much are you willing to put behind that expectation? Are you offering odds?

Yeah. I think the odds are 90% they'll fold it up.

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/14/2008 12:15:24 AM # Q
Nine to one, huh?

Okay, sport. I've got fifty bucks that says you're wrong. I'm still here by Gift-mas, you're into me for four Benjamins and a Ulysses S. Grant. And I'll give you a side-bet of twenty dollars at even odds that both you lose and welsh.

Whaddaya say?

Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?
—Clint Eastwood as "Lt. 'Dirty' Harry Callahan" in Dirty Harry


RE: Another wheel invented
nastebu @ 2/14/2008 2:37:48 PM # Q
I don't know Lefty, it sounds like your business plan is to close your eyes and hope really hard that the iPhone goes away. Since that's not going to happen, maybe Mike is right.

RE: Another wheel invented
freakout @ 2/14/2008 3:40:08 PM # Q
^^ Why would ACCESS even give a damn about the iPhone? They sell an OS, not hardware. But more importantly, given that the iPhone still has a less-than-one-percent share of the handset market, why should anybody care?

(Anybody except Palm, that is, 'cause it seems that's the first place their disaffected customers are going...)

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/14/2008 5:41:08 PM # Q
No, we look quite closely at competitive devices, including the iPhone, and judge their merits and deficiencies. I've played extensively with the iPhone. The most interesting discovery I made, overall, was that it took me under a half hour to see its entire repertoire of capabilities. On the basis of these, user experience aside, it wouldn't even qualify as a "feature phone"--virtually every phone that carriers give away these days does more, if in a less attractive fashion. Phones like the Nokia N95 or Sony-Ericsson P1i blow the iPhone completely away in terms of functionality.

The iPhone has some significant strengths, but they're all around user experience--not that this isn't important. I believe that a phone that only delivers good user experience without underlying functionality (like MMS, sending to multiple recipients in SMS, a truly open applications development environment, actual security--did you know that everything on your iPhone runs as root? Neat, huh?--real Bluetooth support, real Javascript support, the ability to change wallpaper and add ringtones of your own choice, and on and on and on...) won't succeed in the long run, especially when there are phones coming out (see the LiMo Foundation announcements, for example) quite soon which will offer all those things and more, plus a decent (and certain to improve) user experience.

Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. But Apple set a goal of selling 10,000,000 iPhones in the device's first year. It's looking increasingly unlikely that they'll hit that goal.

So, what's Mike supposed to be "right" about...? That Apple's going to somehow put ACCESS out of business via the iPhone (or the imaginary and inexplicable "iPod Air" which he claims is itself going to "self-cannibalize" iPhone sales)...?

I don't see it. We've got (and have had for many years) an excellent business selling browsers and other mobile software, on a global basis: we've shipped half a billion copies of NetFront, and the latest version is better than ever. We now have seen announcements of a phone powered by ALP coming out from Orange late this spring; I wouldn't make the assumption that this is the only thing going on with ALP. We don't make sales predictions, but the way things are progressing, the likelihood of ACCESS "throwing in the towel" as Mike puts it when we're actually (and now demonstrably) doing quite well, seems pretty small.

I pointed at a number of stories in the news which substantiate what I've been saying about the iPhone. Neither you nor Mike have addressed any of those.

Who's "closing their eyes"...?

RE: Another wheel invented
nastebu @ 2/14/2008 10:00:46 PM # Q
Nah, the stories you cited are unconvincing. The whole 1.4 million missing iPhone thing was hashed out in the press and responded to. Even the link you provide offers several possible theories, the one you fixated on being pure speculation. What speaks to me is Apple's astronomical profits last quarter.

Look, complaining about the iPhone's lack of features is missing the point. The iPhone isn't, "user interface aside," a mediocre phone. The iPhone is an successful phone because the designers treated the user interface as everything. Complaining about there only being a half an hour's worth of things to learn about the iPhone is a bit like picking up a book and complaining about the binding, the font face used, the choice of endpaper, and then admitting the novel is going to win the Nobel. That user interface you just jilted to the side is what most people buy phones for.

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/14/2008 10:18:30 PM # Q
And that's why Apple's cut build rates for the iPhone and iPod Touch by 60% from Q407 to Q108, even as they presumably add carriers, because they're flying right off the shelves. (http://www.smartphonetoday.com/articles/2008/2/2008-2-13-A-Slowdown-For.html)

Okey dokey.


RE: Another wheel invented
Geezer @ 2/15/2008 3:30:01 PM # Q
All of which makes this feature look a little strange doesn't it?
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/02/14/google_iphone_usage_shocks_search_giant.html
I suppose that's just Steve Jobs and Jonny Ives frantically searching Google all day trying to cover up that no one else has bought into their handheld disaster.
Looks as though they over did it a bit too.
To be fair, I don't think theiPhone is the last word in the business - yet.
Right now you can't use Flash on it, it doesn't yet work with MS Exchange Server (more important than most people would let on) and the Notes application doesn't do all that one would want - straightforwardly sync with a comupter so longish text can be made in a mobile situation and transfered for further editing etc.
However, it is a first generation device and it has made all the phone competitors think again - I dare you to admit that you have had to think of new ideas in the light of the iPhone - or just think about the leaked documens about the next generation of Windows Mobile, Microsoft internal planning documents that are obsessed with the iPhone, splattering mentions in nearly every paragraph...
but I digress, my original point was here is Plam, late to the game and doing a basic configuration tat only replicated what a lot of others are doing. Where is the new thinking? I would like to buy a new Palm device but why would I? Seriously I have a Treo 650. What new is there to have?
Once I gotPower Clip on it andfixed the 4k nonsense what else did I need?

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/15/2008 5:38:06 PM # Q
No, it doesn't seem strange to me at all. Doing searches on a iPhone is a lot easier, it's got a lot more screen real estate. I do a lot more web browsing on my Nokia N810, probably an order of magnitude more, than I do on my (much smaller) cell phone.

Everything's relative, but what seems certain is that Apple can't be planning on building (or, hence, selling) too many devices with large capacitive touch screens and flash-based mass storage in the coming quarter: they're not ordering the parts needed to make them to nearly the degree they were, as I've pointed out.

As far as the features of the iPhone go: No, you can't use Flash. No, you can't use a lot of Javascript-based web sites, either. No, you can't synch to Exchange. No, you can't do anything with an attachment to an email, really. No you can't send an SMS message to more than a single recipient. No, you can't send an MMS message at all. No, you can't use your A2DP Bluetooth headphones with your Bluetooth-enabled music-phone. No, you can't use a Bluetooth keyboard, either, Steve wants you to learn to "use the Force". No, you can't use an external Bluetooth GPS receiver, either, for that matter. And no, you can't add your choice of ringtones. No, you can't add your choice of wallpaper. No, you can't add your choice of applications. In fact, you can't add applications at all, just Safari widgets. And no, you can't change the battery or carry a spare, you'll just have to do without your phone for a day, or a a week, or two, when it needs changing (at a cost approximating a quarter or a third of the price of the unit as a whole)...

Good thing it's so easy to use!


RE: Another wheel invented
freakout @ 2/15/2008 7:56:57 PM # Q
^^ There you go with those facts, again. Who the hell do you think you are??!!
'Oh, yeah...there's just one more thing...'
akalefty @ 2/15/2008 8:16:12 PM # Q
Who the hell do you think you are??!!

An ex-long-time Apple employee. I know exactly how that "Reality Distortion Field" works.

Steve could bring out "the iSponge, with built-in iSoap", which would clean your whole house by itself (as long as you got it wet first and pushed it around) and much of the press (and a number of folks here) would write postings about how it was going to revolutionize everything we ever thought we knew about kitchens and soap, and that every company that made cleaning products was now doomed. (Some would start peddling conspiracy theories about an upcoming "iSponge Air", which would clean your whole house without your intervention, using WiFi mesh networking.)

People would stand in line in the rain for weeks in advance of its release, all for the privilege of paying $99.99 for one--which would come in a tasteful white box saying nothing on it but "Clean Different. iSponge." in Apple Garamond--even though it turned out that you could only use it to clean things that were white--it somehow wouldn't work on any other color--and once the soap ran out, you had to throw it away and buy a whole new one. Attempting to use you own soap with one would not only invalidate the warranty, but cause it to catch on fire.


RE: Another wheel invented
hkklife @ 2/15/2008 9:45:21 PM # Q
The new ThinkPad X300 makes the MacBook Air look positively sick. I expect more (read: cheaper) 'me too' wafer-thin subnotebooks w/ integrated optical drives in the coming year from the likes of Acer, Asus etc. If Lenovo doesn't hurry up and release a slightly cheaper version with a "regular" hard drive (80gb+) ASAP, they're gonna be left behind by the cheaper Asian manufacturers.

I went from a 1280x800 LCD to a 1440x900 in my new laptop and it makes a noticable difference. I'm really Apple didn't aim higher in the resolution department.

Now, if someone can just hurry up and release the equivalent of an X300 in the PMP/PDA market to blow the iPod Touch away...and then follow it up with an iPhone killer. In fact, I wish Acer, Lenovo, Asus or a similar entity would just go ahead and buy Palm and be done with it!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Another wheel invented
nastebu @ 2/15/2008 10:51:09 PM # Q
*sigh* This argument is done to death.

As for facts, iPhones have been able to SMS multiple recipients since Jan 15, and the OS does support Javascript, although not Java. You've been able to make your own ringtones in Garageband since the fall, and you can view email attachments, which is certainly more than nothing.

Exchange support will be most likely sorted by the end of Feb when the SDK comes out (on time, by the way), and possibly Flash. They might also sort out the lack of todos and proper syncing with iCal, which would go a long way towards making me buy one of those damn things. And about the choice of applications, that's obviously about to change, and in a big way.

As for the argument that iPhone sales are tanking, the article you cited Lefty didn't actually say that. It said "build rates for the iPhone and iPod had been cut again, first by 50 percent from Q4 2007 to Q1 2008, and then to 60 percent." That's a very ambiguous statement as it probably includes all models of iPods, not just the Touch and the iPhone. Apple's Q4 announcement cited only a 5% increase in iPod sales compared to last Q4, which does mean that the growth rate of all iPod sales are down. On the other hand, revenue from iPod and iPhone sales was up 17%, which would imply that the more expensive models are selling well.

So for iPhone sales, who knows! Not me, not you, and no single analyst. For what it's worth, just in the last two weeks on PIC there have been two articles about how well the iPhone is doing in terms of customer satisfaction and market penetration.

RE: Another wheel invented
Geezer @ 2/16/2008 7:24:12 AM # Q
Also there is this about those fiendish commies at it again:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/02/15/report_400000_unlocked_iphones_loose_on_chinese_network.html

I don't want to appear as an unthinking, uncritical apologist for Apple and the iPhone but Palm doesn't do anything that competes in teh same way - nor would it have even considered doing so if it were not for the iPhone.
The iPhone is so uptodate, it makes you realise graphically, how old and stuck in the mud mindset the Palm platform is - Windows Mobile looks crappy too by comparison. That last fact is apparently not lost on Microsoft.
What we don't need from Palm or Access is another basic Linux variant which does te basics in a routine way (graphical interface and services) but doesn't re-think the whole use and driving purposes for a device in th way that the much despised iPhone already has.
We need everything current plus Flash, plus exchange and something more - maybe interoperability with documents and formats, something new to make it compelling as a purchase

RE: Another wheel invented
mikecane @ 2/16/2008 3:54:45 PM # Q
>>>But more importantly, given that the iPhone still has a less-than-one-percent share of the handset market, why should anybody care?

And ACCESS has what percent of that share? Geez, for a browser that is alleged to be on a HALF BILLION HANDSETS, why does Google tout the iPhone stats? (Let's see lefty deftly come up with "Well, the Netfront browser doesn't ID itself as such, or people can click an option that makes it cloak as Mozilla..." blah, blah, blah.)

I'm sure once the ACCESS execs got a load of what Apple devised as a phone UI, they got scared. They should be.

Now lefty old hat, tell me how fast ACCESS intends to steal all those Apple UI features. Just like Nokia. Just like Samsung. Just like Microsoft.

And as for you being able to run through iPhone's features in a "half hour" -- that's a negative? People can actually USE those features. Funny how now I've seen TWO people with PalmOS phones (Treo and Centro) pull out *iPods* when they wanted to listen to MUSIC. I'm sure the same thing will happen with ALP users too.

It's easy to see why you are *ex*-Apple. You never fit in. Had YOU designed an Apple OS, it'd be VISTA.

And, no, I don't bet money, period.

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/16/2008 4:53:25 PM # Q
It's easy to see why you are *ex*-Apple. You never fit in.

Tell me what I did in the course of my ten years at Apple, Mike.



RE: Another wheel invented
Geezer @ 2/17/2008 3:08:52 PM # Q
No come on, you tell us what you did - you keep suggesting that you were at Apple but knew better, now you're the big fish elad engineer at Access etc but you're too professional to say what, just drop a few hints that you really know a load more but can't verify things to the interested passers by frot eh lofty heights, blah, blah or 'reckon' as people might say in England - I suppose 'sure you are' would be the American equivalent.

By the way, I spent ten years at Buckingham Palace, OK I only worked in the ice cream stand outside the car park but everytime one of the big royals came or left I saw it all.

What is the Access wow factor? None. Its a very standard offering, a 'me too' product in an already over populated marketplace that doesn't stand out from existing competitors and looks as though it will get squashed by Google and Apple, curse them they don't deserve the success they get, its so unfair with their limited... (continues page 73 of Handheld Armchair Review)

What is it that Access/Palm can do that will outrun the iPhone/ Android platform let alone Nokia et al?
Genuine question this time.

I would love to have a serious answer that made me think I was wrong but I am afraid the million dollar/ pound question is actually only two hundred and sixty or so pounds: the price of a new device in a growing vibrant and uptodate format that gives the user something new, as well as all the previous facilities and a sense of currency, a sense of ease and style and convenience with moing data around and accessing it at home on the go and whereever and whenever they need it.

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/17/2008 9:30:11 PM # Q
No come on, you tell us what you did...

I was taunting Mike, who seems to be implying that he knows something the rest of the world is unaware of regarding my tenure at Apple. Fact is, he doesn't know the first thing about it. But if you insist:

Among other things, I initially worked on most of the Ethernet and Token Ring drivers for NuBus-based Macs, went on to lead the team that maintained and improved the MacTCP and AppleTalk stacks, did some of the initial design on Open Transport, worked on "Enterprise Systems" when Apple thought they could make a business there, was a tech lead on the Common Hardware Reference Platform, went back to manage the Open Transport group (between v1.1 and v1.2, so when it started to get good, that's right about the time I took over the group)... For what it's worth, before I became responsible for open source-related issues at ACCESS, I was director of the department that did the kernel, driver and low-ish-level middleware engineering. Satisfied? My resume's up on LinkedIn, if your really interested.

What is it that Access/Palm can do that will outrun the iPhone/ Android platform let alone Nokia et al?

Versus iPhone: it's got a truly open development environment, and doesn't lock developers into the jail of Safari widgets. It also allows unsigned applications to run within a sandbox of allowed APIs. There'll be a lot more possibilities for writing software on ALP devices. We can do these things because, unlike the iPhone, ALP has an actual security model. I'm not going to go into specific user interface comparisons, but we're not too worried about how an ALP-based system can compare. As only AT&T can sell the iPhone in the States for several years yet (and similar situations exist with other carriers in other geographies) there could potentially be a lot more manufacturers offering phones running ALP, and from a lot more carriers. I've already discussed the deep functionality shortages of the iPhone.

Versus Android: it remains to be seen what Android will look like on actual hardware, and the consensus is that it won't be out before 2009, at least six months after the first ALP phones are supposed to come out. No carriers have made specific commitments to carry Android phones, so the availability of them and the timing of that availability is anybody's guess. Android poses some significant difficulties for programmers as well: Java-only, and a pretty arcane application model, which represents a significant learning curve in and of itself. The new UI is quite horrible, if you've taken a look at it. If it's representative of the look of Android phones, then there's little for us to worry about; Android's overall functionality doesn't compare especially favorably with ALP, either, particularly on the applications side.

ALP can support programming in virtually any commonly supported language--unlike either the iPhone or Android. ALP represents an open programming environment--unlike either the iPhone or Android. ALP is highly customizable by device manufacturers, carriers and end users, unlike the iPhone; Android's customizability is so far unimplemented and hence unknown (you can't change the wallpaper there yet, either.) ALP is based on the mainstream of open source development--unlike either the iPhone or Android. Because of this, it's already well-known how to develop for ALP; standard GTK+ x86 programs can be rebuilt for ARM and will run fine there.

For device manufacturers, Apple is a competitor. There's no possibility of Samsung or LG or Motorola ever putting out an iPhone themselves; they're not about to get out of the business. The iPhone has actually been quite helpful to us, in terms of business development.

For carriers, Google is a potential competitor. They're the 800 pound gorilla in online advertising, and they'd dearly love to sew up the mobile market, too. It's open to speculation how far the carriers are willing to go in order to assist them in that quest. Google could, indeed, sell unlocked phones on their own, as could device manufacturers. This approach has its own risks and issues--handset vendors don't typically make handsets that don't have some reasonable degree of carrier support...

ALP compares favorably with Symbian as well, and I think people will find the user experience is far superior. I'm quite confident that ALP will enable our customers to compete more effectively with Nokia--something they have to do in any case--and I'm extremely confident that the developer community that will get behind ALP (drawn from both Garnet and open source developers) will come up with a raft of additional applications that will blow people away.

Don't forget, the cell phone business is big: the analysts I talk to believe that up to 50% of the smartphones sold 3 years from now could be based on Linux; the estimates of smartphone shipments by that time are a quarter of a billion per year.

RE: Another wheel invented
SeldomVisitor @ 2/18/2008 7:28:50 AM # Q
Garbaghe (high-class trash).

You've been taking courses in Marketing, huh?

For the rest of you out there, some old words from the Yahoo message boards about beliefs - though couched in investing terms, they apply to just pain old believing as well:

----

Words to remember:

== "...Information posted anywhere
== should not be used as a substitute for
== independent research, and should not be
== relied on to trade or make investment
== decisions. Prudent investors do their
== homework and don't believe everything they
== read anywhere..."
==
== "...Never assume people are who they say
== they are, know what they say they know, or
== are affiliated with whom they say they are
== affiliated..."

about those missing iPhones
nastebu @ 2/18/2008 12:52:43 PM # Q
There's an article in the New York Times today about the missing 1.4 million iPhones. Not so many are sitting on AT&T's shelves apparently. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/business/worldbusiness/18iphone.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

If this article is right, it shows a great deal of pent up demand world wide--far from slowing down sales.


RE: Another wheel invented
twrock @ 2/18/2008 7:49:17 PM # Q
"...Never assume people are who they say they are, know what they say they know, or are affiliated with whom they say they are affiliated..."

You're definitely right on that point!

I took you advice and did a little digging into this "Lefty" character on my own. Turns out that he is not David Schlesinger of ACCESS at all. It's been a elaborate scheme all along!

Turns out "Lefty" is really some guy over at..., get this..., Microsoft! His name is actually Milton Bradley.

Way back when Microsoft and Palm were sworn enemies, some MS exec types came up with a plan to "inject" Lefty into the Palm organization via a web personae. To complete the ruse, they planned on having Lefty spend months and even years doing nothing but convincing everyone that he really was with Palm. He was so thorough in his efforts that (according to my current sources at Palm), the Palm management team actually thought he existed and was a Palm employee!

At the time of the pa1mOne/PalmSource split,a decision was made in Redmond that "Lefty" should go with the PalmSource side. Obviously this was because pa1mOne did not pose the greatest threat to MS's plans for mobile OS domination, so they wanted their mole inside the OS "division".

So this game has been going for years now, and most are none the wiser.

But you ask me, "Why?" Good question. What purpose is it serving for MS to have only a personae and not a real person within what is now the ACCESS company? (MS certainly did not see the ACCESS acquisition coming either.)

The answer is simple. This hasn't yet played all the way out. In the end, after having established himself as a voice for PalmSource/ACCESS, Lefty will suddenly and without warning..., wait for this..., turn against ACCESS and unleash what will appear like nothing but completely true, insider criticism of ACCESS. Using the best of MS FUD techniques, Lefty will bring ACCESS to its knees. Lefty will have fooled everyone!

I know you are sitting there right now, completely shocked and stunned. But this is absolutely true. I did the research myself. I didn't listen to anything the Lefty has said about himself, so I can be sure nothing he has so clandestinely placed on the internet is influencing me in any way.

So thanks for that heads up. You saved me a ton of grief!


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/19/2008 2:31:20 AM # Q
You're a dead man.

RE: Another wheel invented
twrock @ 2/19/2008 4:16:57 AM # Q
Threats, huh? Keep that up Milton and I'll get a restraining order against you.

Ryan, I think you should ban Lefty for threatening me.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Another wheel invented
SeldomVisitor @ 2/19/2008 6:26:19 AM # Q
Lol!

When I included that entire Yahoo financial board warning I thought to myself:

== "Now someone's gonna miss the whole point of that and focus on the 'Don't believe
== the identity of the person" part. Should I cut that out? Nah..."

Giggle.


RE: Another wheel invented
akalefty @ 2/19/2008 10:38:22 AM # Q
...I'll get a restraining order against you...

What, are you gonna have the court order that I don't get an IP address on the same subnet as you....?

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