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webOS Developer Application Basics Webcast Video

App-Basics-BannerThe good folks at O'Reilly Media have posted a video of their September 9 "webOS Application Basics" developer webcast, hosted by Palm Software CTO and webOS book author Mitch Allen. If you can ignore the scratchy audio, it's nice and informative and provides a decent introduction to webOS apps for the beginner, although there won't be too much that's new to those who've already read the O'Reilly book. We've posted the full Youtube embed after the break.

Additionally - and we must have missed this one when it popped up in July - Christian Sepulveda and Davis Frank of Pivotal Labs have hosted a developer webcast on Automated Unit Testing with the Mojo SDK. It delves into the topic of using the Jasmine Javascript testing framework, using the example of a basic Twitter application. webOShelp.net has an excellent, thorough summary of the presentation and Q&A at their site.


YouTube Link

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Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?

gmayhak @ 9/12/2009 7:26:54 PM # Q
I was going to post my impression of the sdk but instead I'll just say... the majority of iPhone developers won't sign up for a new phone contract just to see if this platform can support their apps.

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
hkklife @ 9/12/2009 7:48:39 PM # Q
Gary;

My thoughts exactly. I'm not an Apple fanboy by any means whatsoever, but I have to admit that the iPod Touch has been a no-brainer and one of the more unheralded reasons for the iPhone/Touch's huge app library and developer interest.

Not wanting to beat a dead horse, but I strongly feel that Palm really, really should have released a wi-fi-based Pre Touch (or similar) at the $199 pricepoint sometime earlier this year. Just today I exchanged some e-mails with someone in Europe who informed me of how upset the Palm faithful over there are after the Pixi announcement and still NO news whatsoever regarding a GSM Pre release in Europe. A wi-fi oriented WebOS device would go a long way toward giving users & developers alike a way to dip a toe into the WebOS waters without having to switch carriers and/or sign up for a pricey 2yr contract.

Heck, take a Pixi, strip it down to ~4GB of internal storage space, drop the camera & the GPS and sell it for $150ish exclusively at palm.com. If Palm was still seeing a decent bit of revenue up until Q2 of this year from their 4+ year old PDA lineup, then a WebOS non-phone device would at least garner more than a few sales and some positive attention & press.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/13/2009 3:35:50 AM # Q
A GSM Pre was demoed at the beginning of the year; that suggests, no?, that one is coming Real Soon Now.

Maybe GSM is more power-hungry than CDMA? I have no clue about that...

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
Gekko @ 9/13/2009 5:31:36 AM # Q
>Heck, take a Pixi, strip it down to ~4GB of internal storage space, drop the camera & the GPS and sell it for $150ish exclusively at palm.com. If Palm was still seeing a decent bit of revenue up until Q2 of this year from their 4+ year old PDA lineup, then a WebOS non-phone device would at least garner more than a few sales and some positive attention & press.

1. pixi doesn't have wifi - which is critical.
2. pixi/webOS does not have a robust media player/ecosystem.
3. few would buy it over an ipod Touch at this point.


RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
gmayhak @ 9/13/2009 8:43:48 AM # Q
Replace the phone with WiFi and sell it, as Kris said, for around $150 will attract a good percentage of the 100,000 people playing with the iPhone sdk.

The OS that's easy and low cost to develop for will get the developers and the apps.

http://www.technewsworld.com/rsstory/67473.html

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
hkklife @ 9/13/2009 11:49:51 AM # M Q
SV:

GSM devices have traditionally always been more power-thrifty than their CDMA counterparts. Also, until fairly recently, the GSM chipsets boasted smaller packaging as well. Look at the time difference between the GSM and CDMA RAZR releases (well over a year). Or, more recenty, the larger battery grafted to Palm's CDMA Treo 755p vs. the GSM 750. I expect any delay in a GSM WebOS device to be due entirely to business/carrier/marketing reasons, not technical hurdles.

Also,the fact that the GSM Pre seen in Barcelona had room for a SIM slot but the CDMA version supposedly didn't have room for microSD can also lead us down an entirely different road of debate as well but I ain't gonna touch that one for right now...

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
bhartman34 @ 9/13/2009 3:12:29 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:
>Heck, take a Pixi, strip it down to ~4GB of internal storage space, drop the camera & the GPS and sell it for $150ish exclusively at palm.com. If Palm was still seeing a decent bit of revenue up until Q2 of this year from their 4+ year old PDA lineup, then a WebOS non-phone device would at least garner more than a few sales and some positive attention & press.

1. pixi doesn't have wifi - which is critical.
2. pixi/webOS does not have a robust media player/ecosystem.
3. few would buy it over an ipod Touch at this point.

Hi, Gekko.

While the idea of a Pixi doesn't appeal to me (because it doesn't, on the surface, offer enough of an improvement over a Centro), I think a couple of counterpoints need to be mentioned:

1) Wifi isn't critical for everyone. Without ubiquitous (or at least municipal) wifi coverage, it's a "nice to have", but a lot of people (myself included), could say "Meh." to it. Wifi is critical for the iPod Touch because it doesn't have carrier access, and an Internet-connected device is critical, but for a phone, it's not a "must have", unless unlimited Internet access is too expensive under your carrier.

2) The ecosystem is just a matter of age. The Pre itself came out less than 3 months ago. Even at that, though, Palm's done a decent job on the hardware side (the Touchstone, the third-party cases, etc.). On the software side, there have definitely been some snags, but, again, it's only 3 months out the gate. There's no movie purchase ability, but lack of proprietary video isn't necessarily a bad thing.

3) I think few would upgrade from a Centro for it, which may be more relevant. Palm isn't positioning the Pixi as an iPod Touch competitor. They're positioning it as a lightweight (in both senses of the word) messaging/social media phone. That's a problem in itself, because the competition in that space is teeming with phones that do messaging/tweeting just as capably for less money, but I don't think it has anything to do with the iPod Touch.

At this point, I'm assuming:

a) Palm won't be including video recording in the 1.2 update (since it's apparently also lacking in the Pixi)

b) They're working on the upgrade to the Pre (which will probably have video recording, more memory, and/or an expansion slot.

I think someone already mentioned this point, but if Palm can squeeze 8MB into the Pixi, I think they can squeeze in an expansion card in something the size of a Pre.

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
Gekko @ 9/13/2009 3:59:36 PM # Q

bhartman - hkk was talking about a Pixi PDA. re-read the OP. my point was - without cellular connectivity - WIFI is CRITICAL.

i still say a Pixi PDA would fail regardless.

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
LiveFaith @ 9/13/2009 7:40:56 PM # Q
Forget this whole Pixi dust dream concerning a PDA. Yeah, the enginerring and tooling might have an economy of scale. What we need is a device that dumps that QWERTY and gets us about 3.5-4" on an HVGA with Pixi or even 10% more girth to get in a decent battery and SDMicro expansion. This baby needs a front/rear option 3mpx cam, WiFi(n), and BT2+edr. Price it that same as the iPod Touch. Give me decent BT dialing from contacts and I would seriously consider non-convergence again.
Can you imagine browsing with WebOS on that killer screen, Skype vids and BT dun with the 3G dumbphone of choice, easy app, pic etc sharing on edrBT. I've got cash in hand Palm. All those retail channels you built for years are going to waste!!!
Pat Horne
RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
Gekko @ 9/13/2009 8:11:00 PM # Q

they'd sell dozens!!!
RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
hkklife @ 9/13/2009 9:59:37 PM # Q
Pat;

Palm's retail channel efforts are already a distant memory. They haven't sent out a new ChannelSource newsletter since Oct of '08 (IIRC) and other than maybe a few unlocked GSM Treo Pros, they don't HAVE anything (other than the handful of Pre accessories) that really would be sold outside carrier stores or palm.com.

Stop being so fanciful! You know that the device you just described will never appear! You'd better rush out and buy yourself a spare GSM Centro just in case your ol' 680 buys the farm!

I personally think that WebOS would shine much more on a larger screen yet Palm remains true to past form by regressing in both resolution and screen size.

I also think that the gesture area on the two WebOS devices is an enormous waste of precious real estate. It doesn't have the traditional Treo d-pad + hard buttons for intuituve use AND it reduces the screen size. IMHO, Palm needs to make a drastic change for WebOS 2.0 (if not sooner) and drop the silly gesture area. First of all, it'd probably lower production costs. Secondly, that reclaimed space could gain the Pre an additional .4" to give it an iPhone-sized screen. And the Pixi could then have a 3.1" screen like the current Pre. EVERYTHING done in the gesture area can be done onscreen thanks to the capacitive touchscreen. And Palm could easily add a side button or an option key to the keyboard to replace the Pre's click button or the Pixi's middle slot.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
bhartman34 @ 9/14/2009 10:35:21 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

bhartman - hkk was talking about a Pixi PDA. re-read the OP. my point was - without cellular connectivity - WIFI is CRITICAL.

i still say a Pixi PDA would fail regardless.

Hi, Gekko.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I still don't think your logic follows with the wifi, though. Sure, some connectivity is critical, but wifi is still too limited right now. If/when municipal wifi arrives, that will change, but right now, there're too many places that wifi connectivity is a worthless function. Hell, there are workplaces where wifi is a worthless option, for a lot of people, because of the security measures needed to get on the network (PKI tokens, etc.) I went through a lot of that with my TX, back when I had it at work.

It's even of questionable utility to be able to sync applications over wifi. The Pre sort of demands it right now, because of the requirement to install apps over wifi, but there are other options available (e.g., WebOS QuickInstall, and good old-fashioned ipkg install, which, while it might be a little geeky for someone to remember, could easily have a wrapper written around it).

I'm not saying the concept of wifi sucks, but its implementation so far certainly has. It needs to be a lot more widespread before it becomes significantly more convenient than, say, Bluetooth (which Palm, so far, hasn't done a good job on with the Pre at all).

RE: Need a webOS PDA! Pixi?
hkklife @ 9/14/2009 11:21:39 AM # Q
Bhartman;

Just so we are clear, it was originally Gary's comment, though I have stated several times in the past that a non-phone WebOS device would be a nice addition to Palm's lineup for several reasons.

Also, I have shared your pain in years past with my T|C, LifeDrive and still with my TX, as far as trying without success to get them to connect to municipal wi-fi networks and/or public hotspots in coffee shops, hotels, airports etc. But WebOS is an entirely more modern OS than Garnet with support for the latest security protocols, a modern WebKit-based browser, 802.11G etc, so I am positive that the wi-fi Garnet woes would certainly be a thing of the past.

Gekko said a WebOS PDA would fail. I say that it would not be a huge sales success but would garner SOME sales and, more significantly, would be a handy development tool & WebOS testbed platform for users & developers alike.

So, in short, I am fine with the Pre having WWAN & wi-fi. I am fine with the Pixi NOT having wi-fi. And I would like to see a wi-fi only WebOS device from Palm.

Take the netbook category. Envision the explosive sales growth it has seen over the past year. Now imagine that the ONLY netbooks on the market are those that come with integrated 3G data cars and tied to a 2-year carrier agreement. I think you'd find the world of netbooks a decidedly niche market if that were the case. I'd love to see some hard numbers on iTunes + App Store sales broken down between iPod Touches & iPhones. Is there REALLY a market for a non-phone "touch" version of X device or is the iPod Touch success really only due to the Apple effect?

P.S. You know, I have a new rule of thumb when measuring all new non-phone/non-converged devices that hit the market: "Is this something I can recommend to Mike Cane?"
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

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