Comments on: Sony Officially Announces PEG-N710C

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RE: Not quite there
RE: Not quite there
This can be verified by any other PalmOS developer with early CLIE's.
RE: Not quite there
http://www2.pdabuzz.com/Forums/showthread.php?threadid=16373&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
Scott from Red Mercury tested PalmReader on the Clie2 and was able to run the app off the MemoryStick (presumably via some auto-move capability) and was also able to read a doc directly off of the memory stick (without having to move or auto-move it to main memory)
RE: Not quite there
I put more than 20mb e-book & dictionary in MS and use MS Mount to mount into my clie
It can be accessed directly without copy to ram first
MS Mount + PowerLauncher is the best choice for those people who need more than 8mb of memory
RE: Not quite there
Run Apps from MemStick
> When you run a program off the storage card, this new CLIE model
>automatically copies the application into RAM and automatically deletes the file when you
> close it.
Metrics people, metrics!
The metrics system. Using standard decimals (based on 10) rather than the utterly ludicris fractionsystem they use for the inches and feet or whatever.
The metricsystem is clearly the way to go in the future!
Not that this has anything to do with the article....
"The Clie is 2.88 x 4.75 x 0.69 inches and weighs 5.7 ounces."
really is telling...
Oh well... At least it uses decimals...
But still, metrics is the way to go!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
The cost to change over to the metric system will be incredible. A couple of things that will need to change: maps, every mileage sign, speedometers, odometers, tape measures, golf courses, education and so on
hiehie the french whaahaha
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
But that's just the way I am, and I come from sweden, a country where we have metrics...
And if you wish to change system, a goog starting-point would probably be the education.
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
Miles are used for speed and distance, but most architectural and engineering stuff is done in mm, m and km (not cm they are EVIL!) ...
Under EU law most stuff has to be sold in metric measures, which sucks, because we all know what a lb of potatoes looks like, but are pretty clueless when it comes to Kg.
-
kHiTeDev
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
But I very much think you could keep the pint, when it comes to beer as a pint is never wrong.
By the way. I may not spell good, but on the whole that doesn't really matter now does it? Most people can still understand me perfectly, and I them, but when it comes yo meassures, I have absolutley no clue about anything other than metric meassures.
Ok, there are around three feet to the meter and circa 25 mm to the inch (and it might be 13 inches per foot) but this is not at all exact, and probably down right wrong too. Plus all the calculations I have to preform in my head to get some sence of perspective.
And it's not getting any better when things like oz, lb, gal, cup, pt, qt, tbsp, tsp, ft3, yd, mi, ton, F or whatever are mixed in.
It's not just that there are so many and so uneven values they represent, it's also that they often are different in different countries (US / UK) and, to make the matter slightly worse, even different when it comes to wheter the thing to meassure is liquid or solid...
The metric system is the ultimate solution to all thease problems, and because it is based on the decimal-system, it is also easy to calculate on.
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
Peace Out
Alan
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
hell if i know how many feet and a yard, and how many inches in a mile or yards in a mile...
switch to metric already you lazy asses!!! =)
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
The Sony Clie. Remember the Sony Clie? This is a discussion group about the Sony Clie.
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
You know, you could put an Unit Convertor program on your Clie (or whatever PDA) and see how many things are in other things (inches in feet, yards in miles, x in y, etc.) But you should use metrics ;)
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
Humans live between 0 F and 100 F. Basing temperature around an the freezing and boiling point of a molecule under specific atmospheric pressure is just silly. When you talk about the weather, fahrenheit simply makes more sense.
A teaspoon is about the size of well.. a tea spoon.
A tablespoon is about the size of a table spoon.
A foot is about the size of a foot.
A gallon is the maximum amount of milk you'd ever want to take home. 5 gallons to a paint can.
The entire imperial system evolved to the point where we deal mostly with whole numbers and/or extremely basic fractions.
It turns out that the imperial system is extremely useful for the building industry. The size of nuts come out to be nice round fractions (1/8, 2/8, 3/8, 1/2, etc).
Miles turn out to be extremely useful when driving. The maximum speed on most roads in the US is 65 MPH which works out to about a mile per minute making timing your lane changes extremely simple. Signs are placed at 1 mile, 3/4 mile, 1/2 mile and 1/4 mile markers.
RE: Metrics people, metrics!
Viva la France!!!!
Full Info Here
Tons of screen shots, info on performance, details on running old applications in high resolution mode, etc.
AcidSolitaire 2.0, AcidFreecell 2.0 and Atom Smash 2.0 support high resolution, so there is also a ton of information and screen shots about these titles as well.
Check it out
RE: Full Info Here
RE: Full Info Here
RE: Full Info Here
RE: Full Info Here
Peace Out
Alan
RE: Full Info Here
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: Full Info Here
I am a physician who purchases PDAs for my large multidisciplinary group practice and I think Sony has now become the best choice. It's unfortunate that HandEra was too arrogant to listen to those of us who suggested a color screen was needed. (Last year, they told me "Our customers are generally not interested in color screens".)
RE: Full Info Here
RE: Full Info Here
256 Color...
In other words if you uprade to OS 4.0 can you get 16 bit color.
Allan
RE: 256 Color...
If i remember right the Prism from Handspring can display like 16,000 some odd colors.
I find that the Clie can only have 256 rather dissapointing.
Guess i will wait another year till that gets improved.
The Clie is just almost what i want.
Put in more colors
a SD slot and a Memory stick slot
and a soft grafite area so i can have a bigger screen
and you got me.
RE: 256 Color...
The reason that everyone is giving for the screen being only 256 colors is that the processor can't handle doing the increased resolution and the 64k colors at the same time.
RE: 256 Color...
> Put in more colors
> a SD slot and a Memory stick slot
> and a soft grafite area so i can have a bigger screen
> and you got me.
Actually, for me the additional feature priorities would be:
1) soft graffiti area (PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!)
2) 16-bit color (but without killing battery life or performance)
2) SD slot (Palm is standardizing on this, so I expect more developers for SD than MemStick)
I don't personally have any need for two slots, as this would just make the unit bigger.
Softer Graffit Spot
RE: 256 Color...
RE: 256 Color...
Question for clie n700c owner
24 bit picture from pc to clie
thanks
RE: 256 Color...
RE: 256 Color...
Probably hardware limit
RE: 256 Color...
Pre-Order? Don't start that again!
RE: Pre-Order? Don't start that again!
NOTE TO PALM: For future reference, READ NOTE TO SONY!
RE: Pre-Order? Don't start that again!
RE: Pre-Order? Don't start that again!
Any comments on this
Memory Sticks
The N710C comes with an 8MB Memory Stick. It can launch preset applications directly from MemStick.
I don't quite understand this. Do they mean that one can actually run programs off of MemStick, maybe even read large databases.
RE: Any comments on this
RE: Any comments on this
run drug database on memory stick
how long does it take for it to copy the database from MS to ram
thanks
RE: Any comments on this
RE: Any comments on this
RE: Any comments on this
you access it with an app in the main memory, does it require 4 MB RAM which are free in the main
memory? if not, how is that possible?
also, how can you write datafiles which are bigger than the 8MB Ram of the main memory (according
to Sony, only 7 MB are actually accessible) to the Memory Stick?
RE: Any comments on this
However, databases that are stored in the memory are access in aa different way. I think there is a way the MS-gate allow direct access to the databases.
I believe that the way that the Clie access to the memory stick is the same method used by Palm m500 and m505 to access the SD card.
RE: Any comments on this
say 5mb naoth lite dict) directly from MS stick, without copying it to ram.
Cover
Can anyone describe the "protective cover" that comes in the Clie package?
RE: Cover
Click on "hardware overview" one the following link to see it:
http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/clie/index.html
Hope that helps:) I am getting off the M505 train today.
RE: Cover
RE: Cover
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: Cover
RE: Cover
RE: Cover
RE: Sony Cover
RE: Cover
RE: Cover
RE: Cover
RE: Cover
Stop spreading rumors and lies, you little troll!!
RE: Cover
Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
(1) Does anyone know if the the new PEG-N710 has a vibrating alarm like the new Palms?
(2) Do memory sticks work in any computer/laptop?
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
You can buy a memory stick reader/writer from Sony (In fact, I saw one the other day that was integrated into a mouse). You will probably need a USB port free to add a MemStick reader to your laptop.
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
http://www.sonystyle.com/sonystyle/4621/4803/8079/8069/916.default.html
http://www.sonystyle.com/sonystyle/4621/4803/8079/8069/5000.default.html
2c
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
>can't imagine that someone won't write a program to add this to the 710.
Write a program to add a vibrating alarm to the Clie2? Sure, then they could write an app to increase the color depth to 16-bit color, change the graffiti area to software, shrink the device to a PalmV form factor, plus add integrated wireless (GSM+CDPD+802.11+bluetooth)!
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
memory stick directly from your PC while the Clie is sitting in the cradle. Appearently, it will look
like an additional drive in your Explorer. Amazing...
There is no Vibrating Alarm on Clie N700C.
Palm Developer Gathering Service in Chinese.
http://dgs.palmforce.com.tw
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
The main purpose of this is to transfer the MP3's to the device (drag and drop), but it can be used to copy, move and delete other files and directories on the Memory Stick as well. It basically doubles as an all around Memory Stick slot for your PC.
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
http://www.fureai.or.jp/~mori-t/
to see what these inventive Japanese Palm enthusiasts do with their Palms!!!
RE: Vibrating Alarm? Memory Stick For My Computer?
Memory Sticks
RE: Memory Sticks
Only handspring can launch program directly off their compact flash modules.
RE: Memory Sticks
RE: Memory Sticks
RE: Memory Sticks
MagicGate have some stupid copy protection on them too
RE: Memory Sticks
You could think of like the difference between SD and MMC. One has copy protection and the other doesn't.
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: Memory Sticks
RE: Memory Sticks
When Palm began to license it OS to other manufactures like Handspring and Sony, Palm made them sign an agreement that any improvements or modifications that the licencees make on the Palm's OS would automatically channel back to Palm before anyone else can implement the new modification.
For example, Handspring was the first to modifiy the OS 3.5 enabling the support on 16-bit color. This modification immediately went back to Palm which they incorporated into the OS 4.0 and the m505.
What does that have to do with Sony? I think a prior post here mentioned that Palm's OS 4.0 support for the their SD expansion slot were based on sony's modification of the palm OS 3.5 to support the memory sticks!! This would imply that the Palm 4.0's ability to access data and programs stored in the SD slot were developed by Sony.
In other words, just as Handspring's 3.5 OS support of 16-bit color which went back to the Palm 4.0, the Sony's OS has the ability to access/read data and applications stored in the memory stick just like Palm 4.0.
Make any sense?
RE: Memory Sticks
On the other hand, their AutoCF program copies parts of the accessed programs into RAM on demand.
(As described in a post in the TRGPro Users Group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TRGPro_Users_Group
neck strap
RE: neck strap
RE: neck strap
710 is for me....
Audio Playback from Memory stick
The US release info says it actually supports MP3 AND ATRAC3, but only mentions needing the MagicGate stick for ATRAC3. Now it is my interpritation from reading the specs on Sony's site that the you don't have to convert MP3 to ATRAC3 (Though I could be wrong). Does this mean that MP3s will play without a MagicGate stick (ie on the memory stick that ships with it)?
RE: Audio Playback from Memory stick
RE: Audio Playback from Memory stick
>The N710C plays both native MP3 and encoded-ATRAC3
> audio files. It reads digital audio files directly from the supplied
> 8MB Memory Stick
Seems plain from this that it plays MP3 files from a Memory Stick. It doesn't come with a MagicGate MemStick, so it has to be able to play from a regular one.
RE: Audio Playback from Memory stick
...
*8MB Memory Stick media supplied. Supports ATRAC3 secure audio content when used with MagicGate Memory Stick (sold separately).
RE: Audio Playback from Memory stick
- Atrac3 can only be played from the white Memory Sticks.
- A Blue memory Stick is included with the CLIE.
Will the new CLIE sync with Palm Desktop software (for Mac)?
RE: Will the new CLIE sync with Palm Desktop software (for Mac)?
'can mac's play?'
RE: Will the new CLIE sync with Palm Desktop software (for Mac)?
Clear Sony PEG-N710C
"If they will just add [unrealistic geek feature] I'll buy one tomorrow!"
"Anyone know if you can flash Palm OS 4.0 ROM onto it?"
"Anyone know if I can attach this to my [obviously non-compatible accessory] that I just bought?"
"OK, I just sold my [perfectly good PDA] on eBay for more than a new one costs! I need this Sony now!"
*** NOTICE ***
The above question is brought to you courtesy of the Preemptive Geek Post Project (PGPP), a grass-roots effort to consolidate the inevitable Geek postings into one specific area in an effort to free the remainder of this forum for interesting messages. If the above was one of your questions, there is no need to actually post a comment. Thank you.
Upgradable Flash Rom OS
Regarding the reflective TFT 320 x 320 color display, I think this alone justifies making this a superior product to the Palm m505 based on reports that it has a dimely lit, hard to read display. Over half of a PDAs functionality is based on the quality of the screen and if the Sony screen is comparable to the Compaq Ipaq, which is currently the best quality screen out there, then the Clie will kick ass.
Don't call me a Sony freak either, since I have owned a US Robotics Pilot and currently own a Palm V with 2 mb of memory. Also,in general, I feel that all Palm OS based PDAs need to come with 16 mb of memory out of the box. All these great apps, specifically Avantgo, take up a lot of memory.
RE: Upgradable Flash Rom OS
RE: Upgradable Flash Rom OS
> upgradable flash ROM OS like the Palm PDAs?
Everyone who actually read the first paragraph of the article knows that it has 4 MB of flash ROM.
RE: Upgradable Flash Rom OS
BTW, If you want to play ATRAC3 music from N700C, you must have a MagicGate Memory Stick(white card) and Memory Stick(blue card) works for data/program only.
Palm Developer Gathering Service in Chinese.
http://dgs.palmforce.com.tw
RE: Upgradable Flash Rom OS
The N700C and N710C handle music differently. The N700C doesn't support MP3s while Sony has said the N710C will. Sony's PR seems to say that music can be played off regular Memory Sticks. I don't know why the U.S. version can do stuff the Japanese version can't but that seems to be the way it is.
RE: Upgradable Flash Rom OS
>actually having anything to upgrade it to.
In addition to the possibility of an OS upgrade, there's also the possibility that a 3rd party app will allow you to store your own apps in Flash ROM (e.g. an upgrade to FlashPro or JackFlash)
>I don't know why the U.S. version can do stuff the Japanese version can't but
>that seems to be the way it is.
Maybe because there are so many more Napster users in the U.S. than in Japan? ;)
Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
Stupid Palm!!!
The annoying game that you has played is now working against yourself!!
You just made me wait for m505 for way too too too longggg.......
And after today that I clearly saw the screenshots and specs of N710C and its date of availablility.
I just simply cancelled my m505 order from Day3/19/01. and get rid of my prior intention to buy m505.
I will go for Sony!!!!
to Palm.. I am so upset with your strategy and the way you screw up your company's prospect.
I believe it's not only me who think like this..
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
Palm's new m500 and m505 ARE taking some heavy hits though. It seems like they are getting challenge from every direction. On the m500 front, the just announced HandEra is taking most of the atttention. I wonder do many people even know (or care) that the m500 is actually in stores now(I saw one at office depot), I also wonder how the m500 are selling.
On the m505 front, the Clie has just stolen its thunder. Now when the m505 does make it's debut, the Clie will be right beside it. Now I know that Palm loyalist are going to argue about the m505's form factor and the 16-bit color depth. Well, granted the Clie is a little bigger and only has 8-bit color, but it has other innovations (increase resolution, MP3 playback, jog dail, etc..) certainly outweighs the m505's slight decrease in size and richer colors. IMHO, just getting rid of those black grid-lines is enough reason for me to pick the Clie.
I suspect that once the m505 is out, people are going to be very critical of the dimness of the screen. There are articles upon articles from people that have seen a pro-production m505 and most have complained about the screen....another blow for Palm.
Just my $0.02
Oh yeah,
From past history, Sony announced the N700C in Japan and it was available by the date that they stated, I think it was three weeks post-announcement. I believe that the N710C will be available on the promised date.
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
I agree with you. Regarding availability, I am certain that Sony won't make customers to wait, or to get frustrated as Palm do with us in this m505 case.
For me, I admit that I am one who have to keep checking this board 3times a day every single day for more than a full month to check in case the m505 is available.
Look at the way they treat their loyal customers...
It's so .. ..
And now, even they already have it, they still direct Staples , OD not to make any sell at all, before May 8,
Look at the screen of Sony.
- 320*320 does matter.. and I prefer it to the 65,356? color of Palm.
- Yes, form factor really matters. 505 is thinner, Sony is narrower, thicker and longer but it's not too bad though. It's a super good trade-off for the MP3 feature! that also comes with the remote.
My prediction is that Palm, therefore, definitely will be losing this game.
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
The clie is just too expensive to cover my music needs. $499 for the machine and at least $100 for a memory stick with at LEAST 64 MB (which doesn't even hold a CD's worth of stereo quality music). That for me is enough to nullify the mp3 advantage of the Clie. Screen looks nicer than m505 but I'm not paying an extra $50 for the screen!
Anyway, just my thoughts...
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
In very rough estimates:
Clie+128MB memory stick= m505 + MP3 player + 128MB card.
now translate that into $$
$500 + ~$150 = $450 + ~$150 + ~$75
Clie w/ memory stick= ~$650-$700
m505 plus MP3 player plus storage= ~$675-$700
Alway the price of the Clie with a 128MB is roughly about the same as the m505 plus a descent MP3 player and 128MB storage card.
The above didn't even consider that 320x320 resolution, brighter screen, no grid-lines, memory stick support with other Sony prodcts, and the all in one design.
Is the Clie worth it? IMHO, I think so!!
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
What's wrong with your comment is that
1. why you assume that everyone would buy 128MB just like you want to ??
For me, I like its MP3 audio feature. and I don't think that I will buy 128MB memory stick for the current price. But the 64MB seems to be a good,reasonable choice for me.
2. For u, u might want to carry both Palm and MP3 feature with you wherever with you all the time. Just carry both gadgets in your big pocket in your pants.
For me, I prefer to carry one. I won't listen to MP# all the time. but I will do when I have a mood. And I don't to have hassle carrying both.
3. Not to mention a much better screen.etc.
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
I was trying to point out that the poster above mine that claimed that the Clie was too expensive do not have a valid arguement.
I'm glad that you agree with my calculations.
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
You're right.
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
Your argument is fine if you assume that mp3's are the only way to listen to music. Personally, I will take the m505 for $450 and burn endless CDs and play those on the Discman I already have. No need to dish out extra bucks for an mp3 player and certainly not for a memory stick/card.
Fer real...
Alternate calculation:
HandEra 330: 350
Rio Volt: 150
For $500 you get 650 meg of mp3 playback on each mp3 cd- in the same form factor as the Sony- with increased screen resolution and voice recording- and better battery life all round...
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi
d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
yes, you are absolutely correct! you should go with a dedicated standalone unit.
BUT: what if you want to listen to music while reading AvantGo Channels without having to juggle
two devices??? Ever thought of that? It's a completely different game then. So, your argument
is not valid because the requirements for usage are different.
Now, Clie+MemoryStick is still a hefty price. but the fair comparison would be with a Handspring
model + mp3 player. As far as I know, the clie+memory stick would be more expensive but it would
not only offer more (color, high-res, etc.) but you can have multiple memory sticks with different
capacities whereas you are stukc with e.g. 64 MB with the Soundsgood MP3 player module.
And correct me if I am wrong, but are there mp3 players for Palm m505 or the HandEra?
RE: Clearly, Palm is the loser. I will go for Sony
backordered
and yo fellas, we dont need to argue about which is better each one has something that fits our own individul needs, so buy what you need, and stop bad mouthin the 505, handera, and the clie
thats just my opinion
peace
RE: backordered
or u are expecting to hear only good things about Palm?
Next time, close your ears (or don't read) if truth (or my opinion) hurts you that much.
Only 4MB Flash ROM?
What do you think guys?
RE: Only 4MB Flash ROM?
RE: Only 4MB Flash ROM?
RE: Only 4MB Flash ROM?
2c
RE: Only 4MB Flash ROM?
Sony to Mike Cane: You liar!
As for the article I did about Sony abandoning the US market ... never mind!
On the other hand, current mono CLIE owners are besides themselves because Sony has apparently dropped all prior mono CLIE content from their site!
Mike Cane = Jorge "Sycho_Graphics" Morales (of TRG infamy?)
RE: Sony to Mike Cane: You liar!
What to buy (Vx, M500, M505, or the new Sony)?
RE: What to buy (Vx, M500, M505, or the new Sony)?
Vx = outdated and greenish display, M500 = the right choice (comes with DocsToGo, better display, longer battery, upgradable, vibrating alarm, really small, BUT it is mostly plastic), M505 = poor color version of the M500 probably not worth $50 more, New Clie = to expensive if you actually want to use MP3s. This is just my take, take it for what its worth!
RE: What to buy (Vx, M500, M505, or the new Sony)?
playing music
RE: playing music
RE: playing music
which describe that you can use other Palm apps while listening to music. If I remember correctly
Sony's website states the same.
RE: playing music
RE: playing music
The only drawback I can see is size. If you like the size of the Palm V series, then the 710 is going to look like a brick. On a flat table, it sits even higher than the orginal Clie, and seemed a fraction longer. I guess it's to be expected with all it's new features.
Overall I'm very impressed with the 710, but it's size makes it a difficult hands down winner for me. I'll have to wait till I can get a M505 to play with to see if I can live with the lower res.
Mossberg's WSJ review of New Clie
He was not impressed with the high price or the high cost of actually using the MP3 capability (either in expensive memory sticks or battery life). He was so impressed with the high res screen that he thought it was worth the high cost.
You can read the article at this link:
http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20010503.html
RE: Mossberg's WSJ review of New Clie
Stylus / Remote
RE: Stylus / Remote
Nothing Else Can Compare
Side note, I wish Sony would include a deal where you could buy the Clie and upgrade the stick for a discounted price. The memorystick it comes with seems useless, except for backup. Who wants a stick that can hold 2 songs with decent quality?
All in all, nothing can compare with what Sony is offering. I consider myself a Palm traditionalist, but admit that the superior color screen is tempting and MP3 capability does not hurt.
Turned it in!
I hate to say it folks, but I returned it and bought a iPAQ 3760 for the price of a Sony and a 64 meg flash card. Its waaaaaaaaaaay better.
Goodbye Palm!
We need to buy Sony Clie Handhealds.
B&B corp.
www.bb_cor@hotmail.com
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Not quite there
Sony was always really bad with releasing patches or any other support for Clie. I don't think this will change.