Comments on: Rumor: Visor Snap Coming Next Week

The m505 screen wouldn't have been such a let down if Palm didn't paste "BRILLIANT COLOUR" on every m505 ad.

It's the marketing, not the leaking that was the downfall of the m50x launch. (oh yeah, and not to mention the manufacturing delays, but that also has nothing to do with leaks since the delays were announced after the offical launch).

I'm amazed that Palm is still selling *any* m505s at all. There's something to be said for blind loyalty.

Every program that works on a III series Palm with a recent OS also works with the HandEra. Add in that all III series add-ons also work with the HandEra and I don't think that any mistakes were made.

http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=visorsnap.com

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Ryan
Editor in Chief
webmaster@palminfocenter.com

So.... Twist and Snap may be 2 different products, or just 2 possible names for the same product. My guess is that Handspring has decided to go with a cutesy naming convention like Edge, Twist, and Snap, which will replace the original Visor models.

Hmmm....Palm Computing, a wholly owned subsidiary of IBM, Inc. I kind of like the sound of that.

A> Work for the Gartner Group, and are used to being PAID for having these weird delusional fits.

B> Some poor bastard who bought a WinCE v2.x machine, and still hasen't gotten over it.

C> Drank the liquid you squeezed out of a Sterno can.

Reguardless, feel free to STFU and spare us all your juvenile daydreams.

RIIIIIIGHT. Sure. Go back to the nintendo boards/alt.syntax.tactical and leave us alone, OK?

Even if Palm did major hardware booboos, it won't kill 'em. You see, every Visor, Platinum, Prism, Edge, Clie, HandEra 330, Kyocera Smartphone, etc., sold Palm profits. You create another company that licenses Palm OS, Palm profits.

Palm doesn't have to create a kickass PDA to outperform Handspring, Sony, HandEra, Kyocera, etc. because they are their licensees. The only competitor here is actually Microsoft's PPC. I've heard that Palm plans to concentrate on the OS side and all they have to do is use the new OS on a new device.

-- And if Palm dies, so are their licensees.

Mr. T

Think about this, the size of the PDA market is very small, plus the price/unit is lot less (~$280), even worse is the margin is coming down due to the competetion. I am not worried about Palm users since some company will pick it up but I am worried about Palm Inc.

Apple failed with the Newton because it only realized at the 11th hour that the true market for PDAs is in the vertical market. Personal users are a small market with limited potential for sales, while say the medical market has greater capital and can leverage the PDA for greater use [read need]. As an analogy: few drivers in America own large tractor trailers. There is little need for the power and the tractor trailer does essentially the same thing [moves one from point A to point B] as a sedan that costs considerable less. But I am sure that somebody has one as their personal vehicle. Accordingly, Peterbilt doesn't market their product to the average citizen, but if the average citizen walked into a district office and had the money in hand they would sell it to them. Peterbilt on the other hand DOES market to cargo transportation companies....they *need* them and thus buy them.

The average personal PDA user uses it as an electonic Post-It Note. Very expensive, not very efficient and thus not a major seller to the public in general [anybody remember the SNL skits making fun of the Newton?]. If you think that desktop PCs have a low market penetration, try PDAs. OTOH the average clinician uses a PDA for charting, prescribing, referencing medical texts [ever tried carrying Merck, 5MCC, preg wheel, Harrison's, DeGowin's, Washington Manual on rounds all at once?] There is a definite need for the power and the money to purchase it. the IM residency program at King/Drew here in LA purchased Visors for all the residents, UCLA Medical school and many medical and PA programs *require* an 8MB Palm device [some stipulate Handspring or Handera] from day one. You show up with your stethoscope, Visor and white coat for work. {as an aside: Hmmmm why would programs insist on students/IT departments not purchasing a Palm? The m505 is like a Porsche 911: underpowered, overpriced and not that great to look at}

Some will argue that I am wrong in the same way engineers in the 70s were in predicting that developing computers for home users was a waste of time. But there WERE right. More people use computers at work and don't own one at home than have one at work and at home. The need isn't there so the purchases don't happen. Given the option of purchasing a $500 computer and getting a VCR and cable, the average American is purchasing the VCR/Cable hands down. More VCRs are sold in America per quarter than computers in a year, I'd bet. Hell there are probably more homes with >2 VCRs and no computer than those with a computer. The Economist used to publish a list of such things: computers/capita, refrigerators/capita.... somebody look it up and prove me wrong.

So Palm isn't circling the drain because they pre-announced a product they didn't have adequate stock of or because they licensed their OS to more innovative corporations or because they have strange celebrity endorsements, but because at its core, their business plan is flawed.

>>Nope - the average clinician doesn't use or want to >>use a PDA.

Two points: 1) should have read "average clinician usaing a PDA uses..." and on that point I am correct. You'll find few clinicians just using it as an electronic Post-It. 2) I don't know where you practice medicine, but where I work everybody wants one and those that have them want to exchange them for HandEras.

"There is a definite need for the power and the money to purchase it."

>>You're wrong. Until the killer app

Please... The killer apps [yes apps plural only an idiot would run a business off one "killer app"] are already here. Reference, coding, charting...

>>is a reality, no docs really "need"

and the average clinician doesn't need Merck, Harrison's or the PDR on his desk or an OB wheel in his pocket. Must be nice to have memorized all the necessary texts, the rest of us reference them and use the tools necessary to practice.

"The m505 is like a Porsche 911: underpowered, overpriced and not that great to look at"

>>Huh?

You failed the analogy section of the SATs didn't you?

"Some will argue that I am wrong in the same way engineers in the 70s were in predicting that developing computers for home users was a waste of time. But there WERE right. More people use computers at work and don't own one at home than have one at work and at home."

>>Home computers have only been around a few yearn and >>already have significant market penetration.

Prove this. There are only 580 computers/1000 persons in the US. That is total computers. Businsess, government, home, submarines, AWACS.... Market penetration into the home is poor, ask Compaq, IBM, Dell

>>players, etc. before you make any more silly claims.

My claims aren't silly. PDAs for personal use are a niche of the home computer market which in and of itself is small.

"The need isn't there so the purchases don't happen. Given the option of purchasing a $500 computer and getting a VCR and cable, the average American is purchasing the VCR/Cable hands down."

>>Let's see your data to back this up.

The sales numbers speak for themselves, if YOU choose to look them up. Given the current economic situation in the US has Sony dropped the prices on it's VCRs, have stores slashed prices in an effort to move inventory? No. similar price, but different function and different value to the average consumer. Got teenagers? Offer them a TV/VCR combo for their bedroom or a Palm see which one they pick.

"More VCRs are sold in America per quarter than computers in a year, I'd bet."

Let's see - you think there are more $100 VCRs sold in 3 months than there are $1000 PCs sold in a year? I wonder why that would be?

My point is that the numbers aren't even close. Not by a long shot. Does the price point justify your argument when there is an 80% home penetration of the VCR and that is just a measurement of homes with VCRs not the number per home [see my other vcr argument].

"Hell there are probably more homes with >2 VCRs and no computer than those with a computer. The Economist used to publish a list of such things: computers/capita, refrigerators/capita.... somebody look it up and prove me wrong."

>>You should have looked it up yourself before posting >>this kind of crap.

Why?

"So Palm isn't circling the drain because they pre-announced a product they didn't have adequate stock of or because they licensed their OS to more innovative corporations or because they have strange celebrity endorsements, but because at its core, their business plan is flawed"

>>Palm's problems are multifactorial. To try and say >>their current situation is due to a single mistake >>is a gross over-simplification.

True, Palm's problems are multifactorial, but one of them is central: focusing on personal users.
I'm sure you'll not get this one, but try: Hitler lost WWII because he engaged too many enemies on too many fronts, in particular he should have never engaged the Russians. Sure, he COULD have won if he had prepared his troops for the winter and had the proper equipment and supply chains, but fundamentally it is a bad idea to engage three fronts at once. So poor supply chains and overextending his troops brought about the end of the military aspects of the Third Reich, but if he hadn't engaged the Russians he wouldn't have had those problems would he?

And so it is with Palm. They haven't focused upon a group that has the desire or the money for their product.

I expect the next color unit from Handspring to be LCD. And about the same type of screen as we're seeing on the m505 and Clie. High Res? Maybe. But will it be as bright as the prism (and IIIc). Nope.

Let's face it, 320x320 reflective screens are the future, like the iPAQ's display, is what we all want... and after all, the iPAQ isn't that bulky, we could live with a visor that thick...

well, let's have faith and wait one week, time will say...

Hell - I need a color pda, and I'm going crazy with your comparisons... I think if they do not release a color edge I'll get the PRISM, the visorphone SBM is too good to ignore...

btw... I am the only one who wishes a "TV" springboard module to watch tv on my visor visor?

I was just reading all this comments about The Snap, and all of a sudden I found this one commenting about Ol' Rickety.....

Hmmmm....

Upon opening my Palm to find my problem, I found the base tab to my power button snapped. I'm either going to jerry-rig it or find a part site online and revive Rickety's power button; It LIVES AGAIN!!! I'm sorry my posts bother you; I simply intend to represent the retro-techie who prefers to stick with what's working for the time being. You never know when Ol' Rickety will log off (knock on wood)...

I do think that perhaps the author of this intended to post this in a different chain, so I'll not continue answering here, as it's off topic (sorry 'bout that, Ed). However, this post, and many others on this chain, lead me to ask a question of my fellow Palmists...

I think that most of the comments on this post are well-thought and valid. I wonder, though, why we have become so angry with each other that we need to assault someone whom we disagree with. I think that the feel of the page is getting a tad hostile, and it dilutes the very valid opinions and points that are posted here. It's scary to consider that one cannot post a thought without being insulted for their view.

I just hope that my thought might be considered by others when disagreeing with previous posts. We can disagree without being disagreeable....

Brian Hazard