Comments on: SD Memory Prices Falling

Panasonic is set to double its output of SD Memory cards, and has already announced price cuts across its entire line, some of them pretty significant. A 16MB card moves from $70 to $40. 32MB cards drop from $100 to $60 and 64MB cards make the biggest jump of all, going from $160 to $100. These prices have already taken effect.

The company plans to introduce a 256MB card by this year's holiday buying season, and a 512MB card in early 2002.

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SanDisk 128MB @ $99

mikecane @ 7/11/2001 9:41:13 AM #
It looks more and more like that 128MB SD card from SanDisk for a paltry $99 later this year (summer?) *will* come to pass. How interesting that this story appears after I just got done checking MMC/SD prices yesterday. They were all more than $1/MB (the sweet spot) yesterday, and some rather pricey. This is good news.

RE: SanDisk 128MB @ $99
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 9:26:51 PM #
That's fine and dandy, but the Palm m50x series can only support up to 64MB SD/MMC cards -- this is, of course, from Palm support, so YMMV.

RE: SanDisk 128MB @ $99
mikecane @ 7/12/2001 9:32:00 AM #
What are you talking about?! It's only *internal* RAM that is limited to 64MB. Even mono CLIE owners with OS 3.x have used *128* MB MSticks just fine. And I've come across a doctor using a 128MB MMC just fine with his m505. Your information is wrong.

SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 9:49:19 AM #
What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of the various different types of expansion slots out there?

Appreciate everyone's advice!

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 10:01:16 AM #
I'm no expert, but I might be able to help a little bit.

SD - Newer than the others and slower than CF, but the speed should increase later.
CF - Faster, but larger than SD. In my searches, it has generally been a little cheaper than SD, but that may be changing.
MS - Proprietary in the sense that only Sony equipment uses it. CF is the most standard of the four.
Springboard - Very proprietary. While MS is used in Sony camcorders, cameras, handhelds, and who know what else, springboards are only used in Visor handhelds. If you only want a springboard for backup memory for your handheld, then I would advise going with another format. On the other hand, there are springboard adapters for CF (and SD?), but none for MS that I know of.

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 10:06:02 AM #
This might help a little:

SmartMedia versus CompactFlash versus Springboard Flash Memory
www.visorcentral.com/page/0-4-89-1-4.htm

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 1:47:11 PM #
What is Smart Media??? Are memory sticks and SD cards smart media???

Thanks!

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
Snubolis @ 7/11/2001 2:40:25 PM #
Smart Media is smaller and pricer than CF, but larger than SD.

It's also "floppy", sort of like those 5 1/4" disks, if you remember those. =)


RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 3:27:55 PM #
Smartmedia is a widely used memory format. Almost all digital cameras unless its a sony, uses smart media.

Springboard is really the most important. Through the springboard slot you can use pretty much any kind of memory. Currently there are Smartmedia and compact flash adapters. By the end of august there will be a memory stick one, and a by end of sept, there will be a sd/mmc one. This lets the visor uses every memory type out on the market.

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 3:59:59 PM #
I believe there is also a Springboard adapter for PCMCIA Type II cards. Thus, it would seem that Handspring will have the most versatile expansion capabilities.

What seems disadvantageous about Handspring (other than price) is that, unlike the Handera 330, which has both an CF and SD slot, the Handspring only has one expansion slot.

Future Palms will be supposedly able to support either SD or Memory Stick, which seems to put them way behind in I/O expansion capabilities for the time being.

Does everyone agree with this synopsis???

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 4:17:04 PM #
I also believe there is also a CF cady that allows the use of PC cards. This seems to add to the versatility of the Handera 330.

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 5:28:03 PM #
Actually, most digital cameras use compactflash, not smartmedia. Smartmedia is pretty much going the way of the dodo, I think (which is good, because clearly we have too many types of portable storage - SD, MMC, MS, CF, SM...)

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 5:33:16 PM #
The Handspring website cited above says:

"SmartMedia is "superior" against CF on a few important issues. It's smaller, uses about 5 times less power when read/writing and approximately 1000 times less power (depending on who you ask) when it's in standby mode."

Is this not true? If it is true, maybe it would be good to revive this Dodo???

RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 11:00:24 PM #
all new cameras use smartmedia, not compact flash. Smartmedia prices are constantly going down.


RE: SD, CF, Memory Sticks, Springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/17/2001 5:21:50 PM #
actually, i have been reading a bunch on digital camera's the past little while and....

most (underline that for me) camera's coming onto the market right now are CF or CFII type memory. This allows them to make use of the AMAZING harddrives that IBM makes and have capacities up to 1gb.

Several of the camera's use SM, but i don't know if i would say even 40% of new camera's are coming out with support for this form of memory.

So far, i have found 2 camera's that use SD memory (well, actually panasonic is coming out with several models).

here is a list of camera's and the memory types
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php3

also, anyone else looking for information on digital cameras? I found the following three sites which are excellent.


http://www.imaging-resource.com/
http://www.dcresource.com/
http://www.steves-digicams.com/

nate!


Potential Impact

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 10:07:39 AM #
Interesting that MS appears to be priced as high as ever, in light of this news. The real race, though, is for I/O devices using SD or MS. If SD wins that one and offers lower pricing, well, looks like the m50x series might fly off the shelves while the Clie gathers dust. That is, assuming all this expansion technology TRULY appeals to the general public. I have yet to encounter real interest outside of discussion boards like this one...

RE: Potential Impact
mikecane @ 7/11/2001 10:18:32 AM #
The m505 would need a 320x320 screen to offset the appeal of the new CLIE. Plus, that JogDial and Back button are really quite useful!

RE: Potential Impact
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 10:21:18 AM #
Is there an I/0 possibility with CF?

RE: Potential Impact
mikecane @ 7/11/2001 10:30:38 AM #
??? There are CF modems and bar code scanners plus ethernet and serial cards. That do?

RE: Potential Impact
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 12:42:18 PM #
505 fly off ? R u kidding ? That brian-damage M505 will be a big problem to Palm, and it will die out when 610 is released. CLIE 710 is HOT !!

RE: Potential Impact
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 2:09:58 PM #
I don't think the average consumer cares enough about the different types of expansion to choose an m505 over the Clie. More important are the other functions on a PDA. As long as there is a good option for expansion, they are satisfied. Memory Stick provides a very nice alternative to SD - small size and good portability. Palm is not helping the SD standard any by releasing such a subpar PDA. On the other hand, the Clies have been selling out left and right and further increasing the user base of Memory Sticks.

RE: Potential Impact
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 2:14:28 PM #
TRGPRo has CF expansion capability, it's cheap and popular, but it doesn't help TRGPro to be the domain of the PDA market. So SD cannot help 505 to win out this game by itsself.


Handspring & Handera seem to have best expansion potential
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 5:04:32 PM #
I care very much about expansion capabilities in choosing my next PDA. I hate to say it but Handspring and Handera seem to be way ahead of Palm in this area.

Does this synopsis make sense to people:

Through the springboard slot you can use pretty much any kind of memory. Currently there are Smartmedia and compact flash adapters as well as PC card adapters I think. We are told that by the end of August there will be a memory stick adapter, and a by end of September, there will be a SD/MMC one. Thus, it would seem that Handspring will have the most versatile expansion capabilities.

What seems disadvantageous about Handspring (other than price) is that, unlike the Handera 330, which has both an CF and SD slot, the Handspring only has one expansion slot. I believe there is also a CF cady that allows the use of PC cards with the Handera.

Future Palms will be supposedly able to support either SD or Memory Stick, which seems to put them way behind in I/O expansion capabilities for the time being.

Does everyone agree with this synopsis??? I am just beginning to learn about all these different types of memory and I/O expansion options, so forgive me, and please enlighten me, if I'm way off base.


TRGPro flying off the shelves.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 10:51:17 PM #
You know, for the total absence of advertising and the near total absence of a retail presence (Sam's club? Please!) , I think the TRG Pro units did OK.

We'll see how the 330 does, now that they've finally decided to start spending a little money on advertising.

RE: Potential Impact
JET8810 @ 7/11/2001 11:17:30 PM #
well they have sold 20,000 units in their 1st month!

http://www2.pdabuzz.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=107220#post107220

Lexar Memory Sticks

sub_tex @ 7/11/2001 10:30:13 AM #
http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/0-7085-311-2543932-3.html

you can pick up Lexar memory sticks for much cheaper than the Sony counterpart. As of this posting a 64 meg memory stick is only 80 bucks, which is still lower than the price submitted here.

Thank god another manufacturer has started making memory sticks, since the Sony ones were so over priced.

I'm sure you could find SD cards cheaper online too, the point i'm trying to make is there are other alternatoves to Sony's sticks. and they're cheaper.

heck even in CompUSA a 64 meg stick is only $100.

Check falling prices for 64MB here

mikecane @ 7/11/2001 10:34:27 AM #
http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/0-7085-311-6057564-3.html

RE: Check falling prices for 64MB here
mikecane @ 7/11/2001 10:35:12 AM #
Argh! The guy above me must've been posting at the same time.

RE: Check falling prices for 64MB here
mikecane @ 7/11/2001 10:36:02 AM #
-- and that's what I get for not reading: his link is for Memory Sticks. Mine is for SD.

RE: Check falling prices for 64MB here
sub_tex @ 7/11/2001 10:53:07 AM #
still, $77 bucks for the SD card is awesome.

no harm in posting both SD and memory stick stuff. the more people buying them -the more produced- the more prices continue to drop.

which is cool in my book.

RE: Check falling prices for 64MB here
mikecane @ 7/11/2001 11:12:48 AM #
When the m5xxs came out, a Lexar 64MB SD was going for a whopping $180 at CompUSA. Less than a month later, someone said CompUSA dropped the price to $99. Now it's even less (at least on the Net!). If only food, rent, electricity, et al, followed this curve!

RE: Check falling prices for 64MB here
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 12:22:23 PM #
I got my 64 mb SD from Sandisk for $63.03 plus SH at e-Cost. Their prices may be up now to around $80. Check them out at e-Cost.com

Ray

RE: Check falling prices for 64MB here
mikecane @ 7/11/2001 12:28:02 PM #
You have just made many people envious -- just under $1/MB! And like you said, the prices do tend to go up and down.

Speed Issues

epetrack @ 7/11/2001 12:52:34 PM #
Great to hear the falling prices. However, as a previous TRGPro user (with CF card), and now using a M505 (with 64 meg MMC card), I am struck by the differences in speed, with the MMC card significantly slower that CF. While I keep hearing discussions of SD cards eventually reaching faster transfer speeds, the timeframe for this improvement is unclear. For those of us with lots of apps and large databases on the card, it really makes a difference...

RE: Speed Issues
ganoe @ 7/11/2001 1:55:06 PM #
The latest HandEra beta OS update (for the 330) is supposed to have 100% better SD transfer rates than the current release version (no change for MMC). I am not sure how MMC/SD speeds on the HandEra 330 relate to what is current on the m50x though. You should also note that MMC and SD are basically different beasts. SD can potentially be much faster than MMC,and is supposed to currently be at least somewhat faster.

I am glad I decided to stick with CF until SD prices dropped. Looks like soon SD should get into the price range of CF memory.

I wish Palm and HandEra would post what the maximum SD tranfer rates we can expect will be. Is there a program to test MMC/SD/CF transfer rates?


RE: Speed Issues
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 3:31:45 PM #
Don't forget: CF has more pins than MMC/SD!

RE: Speed Issues
ganoe @ 7/11/2001 8:09:10 PM #
CF may have more pins, but the SD spec allows for speeds faster than the CF spec allows.

RE: Speed Issues
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 9:39:52 PM #
Size makes a difference too! In electronics, smaller IS better!

RE: Speed Issues
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 10:14:30 PM #
Sandisk 64 mb SD card for around $68 at DealCat.com

URL: http://www.dealcat.com/san64mulcar.html

RE: Speed Issues
JET8810 @ 7/11/2001 11:24:45 PM #
Thanx so much for that link! I am looking into switching from CF to SD memory on my Handera 330 and this is a major selling point! Thanx! :)

RE: Speed Issues
JET8810 @ 7/12/2001 7:19:06 AM #
To the Guy above with the $68 SD card...It isnt SD it is MMC. Sd is significantly faster on the Handera 330.

RE: Speed Issues
epetrack @ 7/12/2001 11:44:51 AM #
At this point, my understanding is that for the M50x, there is absolutely *no* difference in speed (transfer rates) between MMC and SD cards. Is that correct?

128 MB Memory Stick only $150

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 2:22:11 PM #
.......in Japan, that is. Hopefully we'll see these prices come over here soon.

RE: 128 MB Memory Stick only $150
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 3:43:21 PM #
I purchased a 128 mb memory stick from Dealcat.com last month for $189.00 including 2nd day shipping.

RE: 128 MB Memory Stick only $150
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 4:44:05 PM #
I'm talking about the LIST price for $150 in Japan. I bet it's lower then $100 retail

How to use SD

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 4:33:14 PM #

Can someone post some links or provide some tips on using the SD card on the m505?
I just picked up an SD card last week and would love to have some pointers on how it can be used.
My Palm was initially configured to use only the onboard 8 Megs. Is there an easy way to
move apps to the card and/or configure apps like Photo Suite to use the SD card instead of
onboard memory (there was an option presented at installation, but I can't find anything under
the installed configuration options)?

Thanks.

RE: How to use SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 5:08:46 PM #
Try something called PowerRun (can find it on palmgear.com's site.

RE: How to use SD
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 11:46:18 PM #
you should also get Filez (http://www.nosleep.net/apps/filez.asp) and
MSMount (http://www.geocities.com/nagamatu/MSMount/MSMount081.zip)

you'll find these utilities very helpful.

RE: How to use SD
Ed @ 7/12/2001 12:18:54 AM #
Your first step should be to read the manual. I know it will be painful but it has information you need to know. If you can't get it anywhere else, you can download it from here:
http://palm.com/support/handbooks/m500series_ug.pdf

Look over the section on how to use the Palm Desktop app to upload files and apps directly to the SD card.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: How to use SD
mikecane @ 7/12/2001 9:35:14 AM #
Ed, you should have pointed him to the McFile/MSMount article here! You can do the honors...

MemStick is not that pricy

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2001 4:45:11 PM #
check www.dealcat.com, found an interesting thing, Lexar 64Meg MemStick costs $87.25, and the Sony one costs $78.99. Why?

BTW, the ScanDisk 64M SD costs $74.98 in the same on-line store.

Help

Tino @ 7/11/2001 6:18:01 PM #
Can someone tell me if the speed goes up the smaller your card? I've got a 32mg Sansdisk and like the previous post, I'm slow when trying to access info? Does the palm 16mg do better? - Thanks!

Palm VX

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2001 11:43:57 AM #
żDoes exist any posibility to use such kind of devices with Palm Vx?

RE: Palm VX
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2001 12:49:01 PM #
Sorry, I haven't heard of any and I think I would if one existed.

an entire DVD quality video

psohl @ 7/12/2001 12:42:34 PM #
That would be COOL! not only for entertainment but could you imagine "how to" videos, instructional videos and the like? With high resolution screens and audio output also being developed, this would be very useful. The future sounds exciting!

[ No Subject ]

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2001 9:31:27 PM #
I just picked up a sandisk mm 64meg card for $70
RE: [ No Subject ]
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2001 10:45:08 AM #
If it's about $1/mb , then the 512mb SD card... will cost more than your palm.

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