Comments on: CEO Says Palm Needs to Be More Agressive

Carl Yankowski, Palm's Chief Executive Officer, said today, "We haven't been as aggressive as we need to be in terms of marketing." He admitted that one of the reasons Palm is losing market share to its competitors is those competitors, lead by Compaq, have done a better job of selling their handhelds to corporations. He went on to outline what measures his company is doing to remedy this situation.
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I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 6:22:21 PM #
U need to be CREATIVE !!

RE: Nope!
wayne @ 8/8/2001 6:31:27 PM #
What's that mean?

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 6:49:02 PM #
Yeah, how can they be more creative, especially since over 70% of PDA users don't do anything other than PIM? The corporate market doesn't care about functionality. All they care about is interoperability, ease of maintenance by IT, and support. Palm hasn't done anything to address these issues directly in the past. Hopefully they'll get off their butts and do more to address the needs of the enterprise market. What they don't need is an MP3 playing Palm. That's for the consumer market.

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 6:49:37 PM #
They need a soft graffiti area, and 320 x 320 res for the screen (not counting the new graffiti area).
They need to quit changing the size and shape of the unit or at least the way periherials connect. (For me upgrading to an M505 would mean throwing away or replacing enough add-ons to double the cost of the new unit.) They need faster processors and more memory.
I think they will get there. But it may be too late. They need to innovate, rather than letting the licensees innovate and then later adopting the changes themselves. If I were to buy a new unit it would be a Sony Clie 710 or an iPaq, not a palm.

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 7:09:12 PM #
Guess it depends on your needs.

I did buy a new unit. I looked at each of the three choices you listed and I quickly bought a Palm. Size and price were the deciding factor. It has to fit in my pocket and not empty my wallet.

By the way, in our company, Palm is pretty much the standard. I haven't surveyed all 100,000 employees yet but in my travels so far I have yet to see a Sony and I have only come across one iPaq. Yet I have seen hundreds of Palms.

Enough with the Soft Graffiti!!! It's gonna take a lot more
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 7:54:02 PM #
than that to save Palm!!!

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 8:52:55 PM #
Palm's new product development strategy is very interesting, if one cares to look at what they have done carefully.

Palm licenced the OS to Handspring, TRG, IBM, Symbol, etc. TRG develops the expansion slot, supporting CF. Handspring develops Springboard, and does tweaks in the OS - to the datebook and the phone book.

At the same time, software developers are creating hacks and apps that make the OS run the way that users want it to.

The TaleLight is developed and all of a sudden, you have a silent flashing alarm, and innovations like that.

Palm, at every iteration, takes the best of breed hardware and software innovations and builds them into the common platform. Tapping on the titlebar to drop the menu was one - formerly a hack. In fact, it was an early hint that a soft grafitti area would eventually be available. SD, as opposed to CF is a wise choice powerwise, and because of its wide industry support. The core apps have minor tweaks that other developers had introduced.

And don't begin to think they haven't done anything themselves. Moving screens gradually from green to light-grey-green is a big step in readability. M10x and M50x Palms have a plastic digitizer layer that will reduce the number of entries in the Palm Graveyard. Lithium Polymer batteries make a major difference over the Lithium Ion batteries in the older rechargeable Palms.

At the same time, they make the OS and the design flexible enough to support things that the licensees want to do, like high res screens and alternative expansion.

Palm may have erred on the side of caution by not aggressively innovating. But it allowed them to not make admitted product mistakes like the first Clie and the Visor Edge. But their approach has allowed them to take the OS that much closer to perfection, by implementing the things that the majority indicate are required.

Palm is not dead. They are quietly doing what needs to be done, while Redmond continues to spout spin.

Besides, on a personal and lighter note, I'm not comfortable carrying a 206MHz chip in my hip picket. Who knows how much radiation that puppy is generating? And think about it - just how much faster do you think the Palm OS will run when it it moves from 33MHz Dragonball to 200MHz StrongArm?

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 11:32:57 PM #
I just wanted to share some thoughts on this..

Even though Palm still dominates the market now.. and something like 70% of all PDAs are still Palm.. I think there is a more realistic picture that need to be considered.

I remember in 95, and 96, after Windows 95 was well in the market, there were still alot of computer buffs and organizations that would not upgrade to Windows 95. Dos and Windows 3.1 still seemed to be in high demand and in use. I think the reason why Palm still has a large market share is because of all the old timers with their trusty Palm IIIs and so on. Palm was just lucky to be at the market first with a much better PDA then others..(including the very high priced Newton).

What I am getting at is Palm does need inovation. They may not need an MP3 Player..But they need to do something. All PPCs being sold to the enterprise market and consumer market can play MP3s. It's not a physical add-on like with the new Sony Clies, It's just software loaded on to the PDA and processing power in all PPCs. If you want to play Mp3s..then fine, if you don't then thats fine too.. you're not wasting anything on the PPC, it's just processing power.. much like those people who are reading this now that have a 500mhz or higher computer and do nothing more than mostly surfing the net and reading and writing email. Are you wasting your computer because you are not pushing it to use all it's resources? No, neither are PPCs, but it's nice to know it's there if you want to use all that horse power.

I am just thinking.. that PPCs have gained alot of ground with in the last 8 months... Alot of ground.. And Palm.. seems only now to be see the late of day that their business model needs changing. What is wrong with that picture?? It almost seems like they were so confident in the market share, that they ignorantly belived they could never be moved.. Well, well, that's what Netscape thought too, and Novell, and IBM with OS2, WordPerfect, Apple...(though Jobs will never belive it) and the list goes on and on.

Palm....The time of inovation is not today... It was yesterday.

RE: Nope!
AriB @ 8/8/2001 11:38:57 PM #
I think if they compete with RIM, Palm will have something greater than the sum of its parts-an always on wireless solution with no clunky antenna that gives you your email, database updates, spreadsheet changes-everything in real-time. Just click on a few buttons and everyone with a Palm is syncronized no matter where they are. As far as the consumer market is concerned, Palm is doing just fine. In fact they have even increased market share. Developers? No problem. We have several office apps and they are always being updated (Blue Nomad is working on a spreadsheet, Docs to go is looking more like Office than a file viewer, etc)

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 1:52:01 AM #
I've owned Palms when they were made by US Robotics. In the last 12 months I have owned a VII, a IIIc and a Vx with an OmniSky modem. I too thought PocketPC's were nothing more than overweight, battery sucking paperweights. That was until a friend, an admitted MS zealot, showed me his iPaq 3670. It did everything my Palms did, only easier and more completely; basically better. Additionally it did a number of things my Palms couldn’t do. Do I absolutely need 192megs (i.e., 64 in the iPaq and a 128 meg CF card)? No, but it’s nice to carry a number of MP3 files, videos of my kids in addition to Excel spreadsheets, Word docs, street maps, and graphic files, either as synced documents or as Outlook email attachments. Throw in a wireless modem (several vendors), a Targus keyboard and many of your computing needs are taken care of; in a package not much larger than a Palm device. Does Palm need to become more aggressive? Absolutely, but frankly I think they’ve lost the war. Would I ever go back? I’ll answer this way. Go to a Fry’s or whatever and look at the best Palm device they have (forget the M505, it’s a joke), say one of the new 320x320 PEG NX10C Sony Clie’s and put it next to one of the color iPaq’s. Which one would you pick?

RE: Nope!
AriB @ 8/9/2001 2:38:23 AM #
I'd pick the Clie without hesitation.

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 3:21:14 AM #
Me, too! I'll also pick the CLIE immediately!

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 10:53:03 AM #
No Doubt! And yes I did pick the Clie!

RE: Nope!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 1:10:12 PM #
I picked the Ipaq....( No I am not the same person who wrote above ).
I can now log on with Cisco's Aironet Access Point with the 802.11 ethernet LAN Adapter to my LAN and access the NT network, surf, get my email and other tasks at the same time.

Is this for everyone... Sure maybe not..
But it sure is nice to know that I can do this with the equipment I have.. AND AM ABLE to buy off the shelf third party solutions and it works with out any priproity adapters like what is now being seen all over Palm.

I think Palm is doomed because...

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 7:22:04 PM #
the key to this whole PDA game is ENTERPRISE business customers. Without them, Palm can't survive long-term as anything other than a bit-player (see Apple). Companies want to STANDARDIZE on the mobile platform that works best and is most scalable with their workstation and server OS and business applications/productivity software. Who controls the majority of the business OS and Applications?? Answer: MSFT Windows, Office, Outlook, Internet Explorer, etc etc. You can bet PPC4 will have the ability to integrate more seamlessly with XP/Office/etc. than Palm could ever hope to. PDA's are COMPLEMENTARY to the PC/Workstation/Server and MSFT can/will use this to its advantage more than ever before with PPC4. I just don't think that Palm can compete against this advantage. Even without this huge advantage, I think PPC4 will be killer. Say what you want, but MSFT does one hell of a job of copying someone else's idea and then innovating light years ahead of that original idea and company leaving it in the dust. The only time this did not work was with AOL but that's because that was a subscription, continually purchased product as opposed to a tangible, disposable,physical product. Also, AOL is pretty innovative and has smart management (unlike some other companies we know). Palm is dying a quick death - it would have been a slower death had they not rested on their laurels for the last few years. I predict in 5 years PPC will have 90% of PDA OS market share and Palm will have 10%.

p.s. I own an m505 but I own MSFT stock.

RE: I think Palm is doomed because...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 8:05:29 PM #
Well, at least you were smart enough to post anonymously.

Palm Has a Chance
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 8:11:37 PM #
> Say what you want, but MSFT does one hell of a job of copying
> someone else's idea and then innovating light years ahead of
> that original idea and company leaving it in the dust.

Ever hear of Microsoft Publisher? That's the application that Microsoft created to run PageMaker and Adobe out of business in desktop publishing. Odds are you haven't heard of it because it failed.

How about Microsoft PhotoDraw? It was designed to replace PhotoShop and/or Illustrator. It also has failed and in fact did so badly it has been discontinued.

Microsoft doesn't succeed in everything that it does and certainly hasn't put all its competitors out of business. The argument that "Microsoft always wins" is a fallacy.

Palm Must Act Now & Fast
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 12:39:34 AM #
Palm and the handheld manufacturers must innovate quickly to recapture the worldwide market. Palm must release OS 5 by 1st quarter next year, while the Palm handheld makers must release the next generation of faster processors and more powerful capabilities by then. Greater emphasis must be placed on the enterprise level to get into the corporate market because these people will help Palm survive in the long run.
Palm and the developers must help all the handheld makers to work seamlessly with Windows software like Office and OS. Moreover, the business developers must develop programs to work for all the storage devices like SD, CF and MS instead of just of SD. There should be greater cooperation between hardware and software developers for Palm to succeed.

RE: Palm must act fast now
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 8:06:03 AM #
Sure..Release an OS that is buggy and crash prone for the purpose of rushing it out to market. That will definitely help Palm.

Same thing with the new processor chips. Let's rush them out and let the users be the testers.

Great idea.

PALM will be just fine

Emma @ 8/8/2001 8:45:43 PM #
It's only Palm that will defeat itself . Forget the ppc or whatever .

People tend to think that because msft dominated the desktop, they'll do equally well elsewhere - WRONG.
Msft has lost the sort of focus they had when they took on the likes of Big Blue. They are spread too thin trying to compete in every market segment and shamelessly leveraging their desktop dominance. It's strategy that's sure to backfire as angry competitors and govt antitrust busters zero in on the company's business.

Yes, PALM will do fine. They only need to get more aggressive and innovate like crazy. The PALM brand is already a very succesful one ...almost synonymous with the word PDA.

RE: PALM will be just fine
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 9:24:21 PM #
That's true. The only other PDA that is approaching the brand recognition that Palm has is the iPaq. All other PDA's are referred to by the neophyte public as "Palm" or (still) "Palm Pilot".

RE: PALM will be just fine
GregGaub @ 8/9/2001 12:00:46 AM #
Yeah, iPaq has brand recognition. Not.
Go hold an iPaq up in front of a crowd of people anywhere (other than a PPC party :P) and ask them what it is. They'll all say, "It's a Palm Pilot!" and think they're being real smart about it, too.

Yes, Palm needs to work harder at getting into corporate sales and enterprise markets, and maybe a little faster on the innovation timeline could help as well (like getting OS 5 on ARM processors out by next year).

RE: PALM will be just fine
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 12:20:06 AM #
Yeah.. I have to agree with GregGaub... I own an Ipaq and use it as my right arm, and 95% of everyone who inquires about it will call it a Palm. LOL... I like my PPC and Ipaq enough to feel no need for any other PDA, but I still would like to see Palm kick it in to gear. They are still great PDAs, (as I owned one once) and I would love to see what new inovations they will bring.

RE: PALM will be just fine
digichimp @ 8/9/2001 12:39:51 AM #
Palm is a platform.
The licensees are the innovators.
OS is the core competency.
PIM still dominates.
The fundamental values of simplicity, cost and battery life not to mention snazzy crap marketing will win over the masses.
Palm's upgrade path to ARM based architecture will be difficult. Screw innovation, let stability rein.
Enterprise will follow.
If anyone went to the MS Mobility Tour and survives til 2005 they're see the coming of .net
MS is focusing on across the board web infrastructure of their OS. PPCs are thin clients. Stinger phones too.
These agents communicate and transact information.
Palm should focus on this. You can't stand on a 1-legged MyPalm. Work it. Think bigger. Court your Developers. Focus on solutions and the user experience not stretching short term boundaries. Ease of use, function transparency to end user is where its at.
Hawkins is right, your enemy is Paper.
Palm, you said you wanted to change the world at PalmSource 2000. Think out of the frigging Palm. Listen to James Burke and that Stanford Prof.

Think about it. Once you have expansion and wireless, do you really need to sync except for desktop work? Add WordSmith, a Stowaway, RIM-like functionality like m700 or Handsprings new wireless, you have a nice complete solution. Flash on PCC is cool but seriously until the TabletPC with voice rec comes along it's all about screen real estate.
Palm and its licensees have innovation. Some Handspring Springboards out there are incredible: GPS, MP3, camera, Presenter!, measurement probe, scanners, visorphones. What the heck more you want?!?

Please tell me what more innovation you crave that will make you experience richer? I know soft graffiti, jog dial, 4k limit broken, user defined button mapping, blah blah duh uh
er a color m700 with 128 Meg and a Bluetooth module with PCMCIA uh oh yeah and a mini CDR writer serial add-on with FireWire interface for my videocam.
I think all of us experienced Palmies have a closet full of legacy add-ons: pen scanners, keyboards, blocky power supplies, CFs, pocketmailers, 2 cases, 4 kinds of styli, and on- bascially enough crap and junk that we might as well carry a 7 pound laptop.
dang now I'm craving the zen of simplicity. I want a PalmPilot 100. just kidding.

I want my Palm Powered Handheld to be a functional extension of my knowledge management experience-e-mail, web clipping specific info, e-wallet secure transactions, local database functions, e-books and word processing. You can have the full motion video, mp3 and photoshop work. Cmon there are only so many hours in your daily life.

Consumers maybe bored because of Palm's crawling, but I think they are on the right track.
I only fault their sorry asses for destroying all of their acquistions and lack of enterprise zeal. I mean nice word-of Palm enterprise sales start from the 'inside', heck we all have probably sold our coworkers on Palm before their division has even got a foothold.

A little sweat and tension does wonders. Good Luck Palm.

2003: Palm 56% Enterprise, 65% Consumer

Simple, Palm.

I'll go back and crawl in my stylus silo now.

palm cheerleaders

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 12:18:29 AM #
haha, frankly, to me all your Palm cheerleaders who can't seem to see any wrong in the way Palm has been carrying itself sound to me just like the Palm management did. While competitors are surging ahead with innovations, Palm management (and it's evangelists) sits back and say, we don't need this feature, we don't need that feature. It's not until last quarter, where in a single quarter Palm dropped from selling 6x as much Compaq to only 2x, that Palm management is finally beginning to admit that they were wrong.

And through it all the cheerleaders still can see no fault.

Sure, the Ipaq may not have half the brand recognition of Palm yet, but to brush aside the fact that it's easily become the 2nd most recognizeable PDA overnight is foolhardy. Up until the moment where your competition overtakes you in name recognition you could keep on spouting those same tired lines, and by then, well, it's a little late to be doing anything about it.

And sure, maybe Publisher and Photodraw didn't do well, but you're completely missing the point of the guy's original argument. Microsoft has a potentially un-overcomeable advantage in its ability to seamlessly integrate PPC with Windows. That in itself could win over every IT department in America...

Or how about "Palm is not dead. They are quietly doing what needs to be done, while Redmond continues to spout spin." Face it, the very problem is that they haven't been doing what needs to be done. The problem with just copying the solid features of competitors is that you never get ahead. Why should I ever buy your product when the competitor's one does everyone plus the latest cutting edge gee-whiz feature too? Sure, you can copy that in a year, you can copy features until the cows come home, but by then I've moved on. And I dunno what you think Redmond has been spinning, frankly, because as far as I can tell they've done a smash up job at crashing the PDA party...their market share is consistently on the rise, and unless Palm starts doing something to stop that, they are dead.

That guy who was afraid to carry the 200 MHz processor though, that takes the cake. That epitomizes everything about Palm Inc. apostles. "We don't need color screen, we just need to organize, and organize well! Oh, you made a color screen?! I can't wait to buy it..." or there's the "We don't need external memory, it's an organizer, if you need more memory on a Palm, get yourself a laptop! Oh, there's external memory now? Yahoo for Palm! We're still #1!" I would bet my bottom dollar that the people who make comments like "a PDA doesn't need a 200Mhz processor, get a laptop dumb@ss," will be the very first in line when Palm releases the next generation 200Mhz Palms......

Disclosure: It may seem otherwise, but I actually have nothing against Palm at all, I just think I can see the situation a little clearer than the people wearing rose colored glasses. My PDA runs Palm, I love my Clie, however, besides the Clie series, the M100 (for price), and the HandERA there really aren't very many compelling reasons left to stick with Palm platform. The only things left really are size and battery life, the gap has been closed in just about everything else. Sizes are rapidly converging as well it would seem (witness the new Toshiba PPC)...the city is starting to burn, the emperor had best put away that fiddle soon.......

RE: palm cheerleaders
digichimp @ 8/9/2001 1:24:43 AM #
Good points but do features translate to sales?
I'd like to see the numbers on cheap crap m100s and used eBay Palm IIIs versus Sony Clies and iPaqs.

And what about useability? Use it, or store it in the drawer.
I once pretended to be a imbecilic buyer (sometimes I don't have to pretend) to a MS PPC rep as he gave me the classic e-book, mp3, doom game demo. When I asked for a simple application launch, boy he thought I was nuts. Why is it that the latest PPC OS incarnation is 'simpler' in the PIM arena?

I think the observation is simple. There is convergence between the feature-poor Palm and PIM-poor PPC. Both platforms are moving toward the balance point of ease of use but with a rich experience.

There aren't any winners or losers. It's just how you play the game.

No sh*t Carl...

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 12:33:36 AM #
Every day I use my Palm. Take it out of my bag and input what I need. Sometimes I take it out just to hold it in my hand. I have been connected to Palm since the early days. I sometimes think about buying a PocketPc device for the extra features, but when I see my co-workers recharging their Casio's twice a day, I laugh. My device lasts for weeks. But, I do hope for a device that Palm can make with more features. They need different models for different folks (consumers & enterprise). I would love to hear my mp3 collection where ever I go without carrying another device. I do want a Palm that does everything. It can be a digital camera when I want, so why not a mp3 player? By now, there should be a player in retail stores for Palms. I see Kodak camera attachments everywhere. It's too bad that there are not as many third party developers for Palm. Even Palm said that when the m100 series came out, there would be modems, mp3 players, etc. Where are they? Faceplates are all I see, and just a few if that.

I think Palm needs to be agressive in pricing, in accessories to market, and some standard form factor for third party developers. It seems that accessories come out in full force, when a new form factor appears. The Palm IIIc is the oldest form factor. I think this model would be a great consumer edition to build on. Perhaps leave the m500 series for the enterprise. They need to balance it out.

The m100 series for the basic and new users. Sell them at a great price to catch on. The m300 series should be the big consumer model. Music, color, storage cards, etc. The m500 series can be their high end models for the enterprise or consumers with deep pockets. This is a good balance... hope Carl is listening! This year has been a big let down for most of us in the PDA market. Perhaps no one has the funds to push the envelope!

Palm knows what they need to do

AriB @ 8/9/2001 3:00:07 AM #
Palm knows what they have to do and they can do it.

1) They've been working since 1999 to bring Palm on ARM so once that happens you won't have to worry about keeping up with hardware. When the 400 mhz version PocketPC comes out, Palm will be there. When the 1 ghz version comes out Palm will still be around smiling.

2) Now that Docs to go 4 is out, Palm can say "we can do Word, Excel and Powerpoint too! We can sync with Outlook too." Docs to Go 4 will ship with future Palm m50x's. The only issue is proper marketing.

3) Because of the way Palm licenses its operating system, they can evolve faster. Handspring brought 16 bit color, USB and expansion to the platform. So now the latest Palms can have 16 bit color, USB and the VFS doesn't care if you have SD, memory stick, CF or Springboard. Sony came up with a hi-res color solution that is so well thought up that I'm sure it will be the standard for future Palms . And it's not just hi-res: it's hardware accelerated graphics so the CPU doesn't matter as much. ( Then there's the deal with Nokia which brings ARM and the symbian kernel to PalmOS and PalmOS to millions of Nokia cellphones.
I think one of the reason we see all these "Palm is doomed" comments is because a lot of people want to be first with the "cool" stuff. You know, Palm could've said "to heck with all the current Palm users. We're going with ARM and everything must be coded from scratch so too bad." Instead, they are working hard to make sure there's backward compatibility and an upgrade path. A real solution takes time and in the meantime we're going to hear a lot more crap about how Palm doesn't innovate etc. oh well

real performance/technology gap

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 5:46:17 AM #
Palm is falling behind because it has a real performance and technology gap: a 33MHz processor and a 16bit OS. Custom development for that kind of platform, as well as many high-end applications on that kind of platform are just hard to impossible.

Palm needs to be aggressive about delivering a 200MHz ARM-based system and a more powerful OS within 6 months or they are in very serious trouble. If it takes them more than a year, they don't stand a chance at all IMO.

Expand Palm Sales @ 8/9/2001 8:28:34 AM #
I had the flrst Palm at my small office, and convinced four others to buy palms too. I praise them to my students and other faculty as well, noting how much the make my life easier. I'm selling Palms when you think about it.

My M505, which I love, has led to four rounds of contact with incredibly uninformed tech support. Ignorance won't sell Palms. Cavalier suggestions to just mail it back for a replacement next week, delete everything and reinstall, and blame it on a software conflict (read "magic we don't understand") will not sell Palms. Promises from customer support kept a month later won't sell Palms. Truth is, the more inept support and service I receive, the less I sell Palms..

RE: real performance/technology gap

altema @ 8/9/2001 12:25:25 PM #
The gap is not large enough to compensate for the difference in OS performance and reliability. Why does a 200Mhz PPC spend more time in the wait mode than a 33Mhz Palm device? It's not the hardware. Palm can change hardware, is the PPC platform going to fix their problem and drop Windows?
RE: RE: real performance/technology gap
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 1:57:58 PM #
What are you talking about? Wait time??? Have you ever used the a 206 mhz based PPC? There is no wait time. And the things that do need to be waited, are things usually like accessing files from an expansion card..(which is still faster than anything Palm has to do while accessing anything from any kind of storage device). And as far stability goes.. I have had my Palm crash more times than my PPC has ever crashed before. There has been a lot of changes fron WinCE 1.0 to WinCE 3.o and the newest PPC OSs.

RE: RE: real performance/technology gap
Altema @ 8/9/2001 7:46:40 PM #
I was not refering to waiting on screen changes, I was speaking of processor wait states while the processor handles different tasks. You can't just count clock cycles and state everything is equal, tick for tick. It's not equal. A more obvious way to bring out the difference would be to take the best PPC known to mankind, use a utility to slow it down to 33Mhz, and compare with a Palm OS device running 33Mhz. It would be nice to say they were both as responsive (especially since we are a Microsoft-based shop!) but that's not the case. Even at 100Mhz for the PPC, the main complaint would be how slow it is (and that's exactly what happened in the real world). So it's really an apples vs oranges situation when trying to compare processor frequency rates.

On the reliability topic, I ran a helpdesk for 16,000 employees for several years and I know Palm's reliability record. Once in a while we will come upon a problem Palm, but our field engineers do not even support the PPC platform due to the difficulties. I've recently moved over to being a telcomm engineer, but we still have Windows and Palm OS devices used in the same department for the same things. We work together, go to meetings together, have lunch together, and we use our handhelds together, so I'm not completely in the dark here.

I agree completely that the current version of Windows for PPC is loads better than the original, MS has come a long way, but it still carries a lot of baggage. Hopefully they will bring it to where it should be, as it would be nice to have ethernet access without a special adaptor. Other than that, I've yet to see a real advantage other than the "wow factor" of running slick demos. Workload is where the proverbial rubber meets the road. Can I do Excel spreadsheets, make fully formatted Word documents, access corporate and private Email, perform scheduling, read ebooks, create relational databases, keep photo albums, remote control my sound system, make sketches for cable documentation, surf the web, do my time tracking and expense accounts, plug into and configure networks, map out my next remote destination, play a few games when I get home, then go to sleep with a slideshow going as a nightlight? I think I would get nauseous if I used ANY handheld more than that.

RE: Nope!

altema @ 8/9/2001 12:25:25 PM #
Choose between a Porsche and a tractor trailer? I'll take the CLIE anyday!

All Palm needs to do is......

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 1:23:49 PM #
to put Clie 610C in m505 case!!

More aggressive on marketing to the coorporate? Am I hearing some thing wrong?

You don't know jack

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 1:47:40 PM #
It's so funny reading people's opinions on why Palm's falling behind. Most seem to think it's because Palm's technologically inferior to iPaq that they're falling behind. And yet statistics show that the majority of PDA users don't do anything beyond the basics. So now you have the small group of techogeeks who look for the bigger/better/faster and because Palm doesn't have that, it's going to lose. What ever happened to ease of use as being a factor for success? iPaq surely doesn't have that down. What ever happened to ease of finding applications? I had a heck of a time finding just a terminal emulator for my iPaq (in fact, I still didn't find one).

Bottomline, if you're selling to Joe Salesdroid, or Mr. Bigshot Executive, the iPaq is going to get tossed out the window. You have to be somewhat technologically inclined to use it. On the other hand, the Palm app's are right there, the ones used most. That's what made it so successful.

Palm will lose out if they can't get this message across to the non-technogeeks who need PIM features. Otherwise, the technogeeks will convince them that they need more memory, more MHz, MP3, color, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is, you don't need anything beyond pen and paper for PIM, so why would you need all the other stuff? Especially if it makes the device bigger and fatter, and more power hungry?

I program PDA's for a living. I have an iPaq, an M505, a V, a Vx, a Handspring, and tons of cell phones. And I don't use any of them daily. Why? Because I don't need to. But I know for a fact that the only reason why someone chooses an iPaq over a Palm is because of the "WOW" factor. I find it easier to enter text and get information on my Palm than on my iPaq (probably cause I hate "typing" using a stylus). The best thing I like about my iPaq is its integration with Outlook. I can look at my schedule and get contact information that's in my Outlook easily from my iPaq. That's why Enterprise markets like the iPaq better than Palm, and the only reason why I think Palm could lose out to the iPaq.

That's just my opinion.

RE: You don't know jack
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 2:13:03 PM #
I can't imagine that outlook is the only reason why the enterprise market and the consumer market is buying the Ipaq. And another thing.. If the PPC directions of the WOW factor is so anti Palm, than why is Palm slowly moving in that direction? It will be funny to see the Palm in 2 or 3 years when it will reseamble more like the Ipaq of today how most of the Palm community will react. But I am sure they will love it, just like the Apple enthusists woo hoo'ed that the new Imacs which had like a 20 percent increase of spead in the last 2 years and than balked at how there is more to a copmputer than the MHZ race.

Ease of use is there on all PPCs, or any new program. It's a matter of learning something new, like it was first learning a Palm. And what made the Palm so seccessfull was the same was the fact that there was no one else.. period. They had the time to build the market which now seems to be slipping away... and bottom line that is really what speaks louder than any comment on this discussion thread.

And last.. I've noticed that the term Programmer seems to be tossed around alot in technology board.. (yes like this one too... So I guess we all can't be that average of a joe). I just need to say that doesn't hold much ground. I've progammed in VB.. Does that make me an Author of what is right.. No.. Neither does anyone else who programs for any other platform. Show me what you've programed and it's sucess on the market.. Than I will show you someone worth listening too.
Either way.. The market share of what is happening to Palm and the PPCs will continue to speak, what the general public really wants to buy as time moves on.

RE: You don't know jack
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/9/2001 6:07:05 PM #
There's the Enterprise market, and there's the consumer market. Each have their own reasons for buying something. What the consumer looks for in a product (WOW factor I referred to) isn't necessarily why corporations buy them. As I said, it's also the usability and purpose that makes them more attractive to corporate buyers.

Obviously there's more reasons for corporations to buy iPaqs than just Outlook capabilities (like incentives and easy integration/syncronization/maintenance by the IT department in companies who are Microsoft houses), but for those who buy based on need, I think Outlook is the only reason why they will choose the iPaq over the Palm.

When I mentioned that I was a programmer (11 yrs in C++, C), I was only referring to the fact that as a programmer, I have access to multiple devices, giving some background to the kind of daily exposure I have to these devices. Let's just say I work for a well known company within the PDA realm. Funny thing is, I'm not particularly fond of PDA's. I find any device I have to carry annoying. But this doesn't make me completely unbiased, as I have my personal feelings about certain designs and implementations as a UI designer, but not with a particular device. Somethings I like about WinCE, other things I hate about Palm, and vice-versa.

If you're referring to the general public, as in the consumer market, showing more interest for the iPaq than the Palm, I completely agree. Palm has sat on its laurals too long without introducing a more feature packed device. But as I was referring to the Enterprise market, I think Palm's loss to the iPaq has nothing to do with its technological inferiority.

In my opinion, if Palm wants to dominate the PDA market for the Enterprise, they need to start bundling software to make access to the corporate exchange data native and easy to use, without adding more work for IT, like how the iPaq does with Windows (it must be nice to tie everything with Windows). Anything on top of that is just WOW factor that most IT buyers don't give 2 hoots about.

The bottom line is that Palm has concentrated only on the consumer market share, while Microsoft concentrated on the other market that Palm wasn't targeting, the corporate market. In any economic downturn, it's the consumer market that will dry up faster than the corporate market. And if the battle between Microsoft and Apple is any indication, the corporate battle usually decides the long-term fate of the consumer market for productivity devices.

Re: Nope

Stratman @ 8/11/2001 1:19:10 AM #
I couldn't agree more. Some people are still slow in embracing the latest in Palm products. There are still users who happily chug away on their old Palm Pilots and may never need an upgrade until they need replacing. Little wonder why casual observers still call a handheld as a "Palm Pilot". So popular is the platform that I've heard of Palm emulator apps for the Pocket PC (now why would a PPC user want a Palm emulator is beyond me)

I think Palm has come of age and should offer devices past that of a "simple organizer". I don't intend to migrate to the PPC camp but I feel Palm can at least, match the PPC devices' offerings. Instead of touting the future Palm devices as a pocket multimedia thingy like the PPC, why not offer scalability and let the user decide what he or she wants the Palm to be? Then the Palm community will not be divided into the Clie 700C have and have-nots. This will ensure uniformity across all future Palm devices. It's nice to know that you can decide if you want your device to be a simple organizer or a feature rich handheld computer. With the next generation ARM processors, I'm sure the the technological gap between Palm and PPC will be narrowed. And please, let the upcoming OS 5.0 take advantage of flat memory models so we could do without the complexities of MsMount, PowerRun, etc..... Just my personal ramblings here.



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