Comments on: Week in Review: August 5 - 11

Without a doubt, the top news of the week was the leaked m125 details, which even made it all the way across the Atlantic to appear in The Register, too.

There were a couple of interesting statements from handheld company execs. Palm's CEO said they are going to be more aggressive about selling to companies and Handspring's COO admitted that leaving color out of the Visor Edge was a mistake.

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The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/11/2001 4:29:40 PM #
Why would *anyone* in their right mind choose this over a CLIE S320?

Palm's current lineup shows an amazing lack of innovation from a company that seems to have become fat and lazy:

m100 - nice basic model for new users and those looking for just PIM functionality. Need to drop price to below $100. Basically a repackaged version of a 4 year old PDA

m105 - overpriced for what it offers and now blown away by CLIE S320

m500 - the PDA no-one wants (for a good reason). This might sell if they cut the price to $250 - but then isn't that what the m125 will cost?

m505 - poor color screen, only has size in its favor. A sales disappointment, and Palm was betting its future on this model. Will be remembered as the PDA that killed Palm. Would have made more sense at $350, but now that Sony's N610C is out, it's too late anyway.

IIIc - essentially discontinued

Vx - about to be discontinued. Still is the best design Palm ever produced - too bad they never released a 16 MB version.

VII - about to be discontinued

With nothing significant in the hardware pipeline, no I/O standard yet ratified for the SD slot, sales plummetting, vicious competition from Sony and Handspring, and Palm OS 5 and the new processors at least a year away, what does the future hold for Palm?

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/11/2001 10:11:32 PM #
I wouldn't touch a Sony with a stick. Speaking of sticks, I definitely wouldn't touch a MemoryStick either. It's becoming really annoying how Sony zealots are so full of themselves. The only thing worth mentioning about Sony's line is the S320's reasonable price and a barely impressive hi-res screen on their really expensive models. Thanks, but no thanks.

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 12:46:21 AM #
hahaha, yeah go stick with your "thin" form factor of your m505 and barely readable screen.
I bet you've never even seen a the high resolution screen.

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 6:06:32 AM #
hmm don't forget the m700 coming soon...always on wireless with no bulky antenna? That's a killer product in my book. Also the m500 series was designed to go after Handspring-not Sony which wasn't released yet. Remember when Handspring fans thought that they were the way to go because of 16 bit color and expandability? Now Palm has that too and Handspring has to come up with something new. Now it's time for the Sony fans to take potshots at Palm. ok that's fair but don't be surprised if Palm adopts hi-res just like they adopted 16 bit color. The cycle repeats itself.
AriB

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 7:40:04 AM #
Sorry to burst your bubble but I've seen the "m700" and it is not "a killer product in my book". And the Palm wireless network is about to be decimated by enhanced cellphones capable of basic web browsing and email functions. Palm had a two year head start, but blew it because they were greedy and priced themselves out of any significant market share.

If Palm still has a hardware division next spring (and has not been absorbed by IBM), they will probably obtain the high resolution color screens from Sony, just like they currently obtain the low resolution color screens from that company.

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 7:52:05 AM #
BARELY-IMPRESSIVE hi-res screen? Sony zealots?

The only zealots I see are those Palm fanatics who still insist on defending their m505s against every negative comment as if the m505s were a member of the family.


> I wouldn't touch a Sony with a stick. Speaking of sticks, I definitely wouldn't touch a MemoryStick either. It's becoming really annoying how Sony zealots are so full of themselves. The only thing worth mentioning about Sony's line is the S320's reasonable price and a barely impressive hi-res screen on their really expensive models. Thanks, but no thanks.


RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 8:18:49 AM #
you can't compare an always on wireless Palm to a tiny phone. The only PDA that will compete with the m700 is RIM and the difference in functionality is not even close. You want to have email but you also want to have the many applications that are available for Palm too

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 9:08:04 AM #
"hahaha, yeah go stick with your "thin" form factor of your m505 and barely readable screen. I bet you've never even seen a the high resolution screen." and "The only zealots I see are those Palm fanatics who still insist on defending their m505s against every negative comment as if the
m505s were a member of the family."

Typical Sony folks. I don't have an m505. By this time next year, people will laugh at the 610/710's sad excuse for a screen. Sony should've taken a lesson from PocketPC and made a screen with some actual real estate instead of squeezing more and more pixels into a smaller and smaller screen. If some dinky company like HandEra can do it in the Palm OS, Sony ought to be able to. What's next, 640x640 on a 2 inch screen? Maybe they'll stick another quarter inch of glass over it while they're at it. Enjoy your expensive screen while you can, it won't last long at the top of the Palm OS chain. Don't be so excited about things that PocketPC folks have had for a while, and maybe you'll come back down to earth.

m505 Selling Well
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 12:35:02 PM #
> m505 - poor color screen, only has size in its favor. A sales disappointment,

Here's a quote from Cnet:

    "Even though Palm released the m505 right at the end of the second quarter, (the product) was still the No. 4" seller at retail for the quarter, [NPD analyst Stephen] Baker said. In fact, he added, Palm had "the seven top sellers" during the second quarter.

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-202-6792981.html

m505 a sales flop
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 1:39:15 PM #
You seem to forget that the Vx (which was killed off by the m505) was Palm's biggest seller and brought in the most money to the company. Income from the m505 isn't even close.

Palm's latest quarterly report will probably trigged a number of long-overdue dismissals of their clueless, bloated management.

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 1:47:50 PM #
So what do you have? A Palm Pilot 1000? I laugh at you even more.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Typical Sony folks. I don't have an m505. By this time next year, people will laugh at the 610/710's sad excuse for a screen. Sony should've taken a lesson from PocketPC and made a screen with some actual real estate instead of squeezing more and more pixels into a smaller and smaller screen. If some dinky company like HandEra can do it in the Palm OS, Sony ought to be able to. What's next, 640x640 on a 2 inch screen? Maybe they'll stick another quarter inch of glass over it while they're at it. Enjoy your expensive screen while you can, it won't last long at the top of the Palm OS chain. Don't be so excited about things that PocketPC folks have had for a while, and maybe you'll come back down to earth.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 1:52:22 PM #
A Palm Pilot 1000 screen is about as readable as a m505. Remind us why the m505 is worth $450.

I can't hear you. Speak up

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 2:33:39 PM #
there is no palm pilot 1000. there never was. it was simply the pilot 1000. peoples insistence on include the name palm is actually quite annoying

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 2:50:07 PM #
Annoying to whom?

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 5:44:12 PM #
Annoying to Pilot 1000 owners. Not everyone goes out right away and plops down $500 on the latest Sony toy.

RE: The m125 is proof that Palm's hardware is second rate
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 10:35:13 PM #
Does the Clie have a wireless modem attachment. Having wireless access to the internet is the way to go. Still hopeing the 700 series will be impresive, otherwise it might have to be a 505 & omnisky attachment.

Marketplace

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/11/2001 5:19:29 PM #
I must say, the marketplace is great. Through the marketplace I've bought/sold 7 items. It's really a great way to off load some of your extra stuff and get other things for dirt cheap.



Help

John @ 8/11/2001 5:52:33 PM #
I am looking for info on a Palm, I would like to buy one but don't know which one. I want to use to keek track of inventory and be able to share info between two PC's. Please help, John
john@allabouticecream.com
RE: Help
Cheetah @ 8/11/2001 11:26:37 PM #
For business purposes, you should consider the Palm 500. It doesn't sound like you need color for your business application, so the black and white screen is better due to its long battery life.

Another model you might consider is the HandEra. It is also black and white, but has a larger viewable screen area (when you are not writing).

Why recommend an m500 over the Sony CLIE S320?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 3:16:17 AM #
If the original poster wants a small, light, inexpensive PDA with a good monochrome screen, the $199 S320 (http://www.sonystyle.com/micros/clie/models/320.html) is a lot better deal than the $399 m500 (http://www.palm.com/products/palmm500/).

Only an idiot would buy the m500 for $399 - or even $299 for that matter.

RE: Help
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 9:22:14 AM #
Only an idiot would buy into the MemoryStick farce.

The m125 doesn't sound too bad for the original poster, if the screen looks reasonable. Otherwise, if you want expansion, there's the m500 (a bit expensive), the HandEra 330 and TRGpro (the TRGpro's a great value, but kind of big), and the midrange Visors (but I don't usually recommend the Visors since they're not flash upgradable).

RE: Help
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 1:49:51 PM #
>>>Only an idiot would buy into the MemoryStick farce.<<<

And only an idiot would say that.

Don't bother trying to argue with the CLIE bashers
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 1:55:11 PM #
These paranoid Palm drones have developed a bunker mentality over the past month and are now taking it personally whenever someone points out some of the m505's many deficiencies.

RE: Don't bother trying to argue with the CLIE bashers
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 2:12:07 PM #
Amazing how whenever someone says anything negative about the CLIE, Sony idiots think they must own a m505! The Sony drones think there is something wrong with every model in the Palm line, but there isn't anything wrong with their precious Sonys. Get over it! MemoryStick is a proprietary format that myself and others will not support. The 610/710's screens may be higher-res and brighter than the m505, but it's still too small, under too much plastic/glass and too dim for a $400-$500 price tag.

Help All of Us
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 2:34:53 PM #
Both groups are about equally matched when it comes to paranoia. Both seem equally defensive about their choice in handhelds. The Sony group is abit more irritating (not by much) because of their harping about how all the Palm handhelds are junk while mostly the Palm people react defensively.

I wish I could tell who had written all these messages. I'd they're from maybe 5 people, none of whom is normal Palm or Sony user. I wish you guys would just exchange addresses and take your flame war somewhere else. Its really boring. You're also hurting what you're trying to defend by making first timers think all of us are a bunch of nutjobs. I think your both wrong for no other reason than people as irritating as you can't possibly be right about anything.

Palm m505 v. Sony Clie N610C/N710C: THE WINNER IS...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 2:51:33 PM #
Palm m505 v. Clie N610C/N710C was over almost as soon as it began. Palm is now destroyed in terms of both technology and sales. It will just be getting worse.

Seeing the Palm camp attempt to rally around the feeble m125 is tragic. The new kid on the block now owns the block and is about to take over the entire town. It must hurt to see your entire company collapsing around you and be utterly powerless to stop it.

RE: Help All of Us
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 3:19:09 PM #
The problem I see is that some (probably 1-3 people doing the actual posting) Sony people refuse to see the faults in their own machines, even when somebody flat out tells it to them. If the Sony's were perfect, everybody would buy them, and the numbers clearly show that isn't true. All I can guess is that it's a couple of people who paid $500 for a 710 and can't understand why everyone else isn't jumping on the bandwagon. These people need to understand the m505 and N610C/N710C are expensive machines that most people won't buy and will all be old news before you know it anyhow.

RE: Help
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 4:59:27 PM #
Funny.

>>>>The 610/710's screens may be higher-res and brighter than the m505, but it's still too small, under too much plastic/glass and too dim for a $400-$500 price tag.<<<<<

Funny how the m505 users keep praising that the 610/710's screen is TOO SMALL. Have you even taken a 610/710 and an m505 NEXT TO EACH OTHER and COMPARE THEM? From looking at it, they are almost exactly the same size. And if you take a ruler or look even closer, the 610/710's screen is smaller by about 1 millifreakinmeter. And if 1mm is WAY too "big" for you, then you have to be an Ant to care for 1mm. Sheesh. And yes, I'm a 710c user. The the S300 I know for a fact (I owned one a long time ago) Has a way smaller screen, and has a smaller screen compared to the Palm Vx too (very noticeable difference). So, the first "report" i heard about 710 screen being smaller than m500/505 I went out to compusa, stuck my 710 next to a working display model of the m505 and did my comparisons, and like i said, the 610/710 is smaller by about 1mm. And again i say, if you think 1mm is way too small, then you gotta be an ant or something! Sheesh!

RE: Help
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 5:33:26 PM #
Why do you keep bringing the m505 into this? Do you have a Palm m505 complex? I don't have a m505. The 610/710's screen is small, especially for its' resolution and price, PERIOD. That has nothing to do with the m505.

RE: Help
Pepper @ 8/12/2001 5:39:40 PM #
Okay, the m505 has the screen of the Vx which is smaller then the III series. The clie has a smaller screen, and the m1xx has an even smaller screen.

so, the clie's screen may be too small for some people not because its smaller then the m505, but because its smaller then the III. The m505 screen may also be too small for some people because of the same reasons.

Personally, I don't mind the size of either screen. I can even handle the m100's screen.

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Help
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 6:31:44 PM #
I'm really tired of all this bickering. Sony sucks! No! Palm sucks! No! PocketPC sucks! That does it. I'm getting a Blackberry :)

AriB

RE: Help
Hephaestus @ 8/12/2001 6:42:11 PM #
You can certainly tell that there are some large insecurities(sp?) floating around out here. Also It's quite evident that many people have forgotten that just because someone doesn"t agree with your way of thinking doesn"t make them wrong or someone to be ridiculed! Grow up people.

John

RE: Help
EGarrido @ 8/12/2001 6:53:12 PM #
Wow, some people really do need to grow up. Just because other people don't think the Palm you own is the best doesn't mean you have to get all nasty about it.

I, myself, own a Sony 710C and I love it. But I definitely respect the people who have chosen the m505 and I even can understand why they would choose that particular model. Simply put: they both are excelent machines.

It's just too bad that when people come and read these boards, the only thing they see is "hey, my sony is better than your 505" and vice versa. It's also too bad that the people who actually see things evenly have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

And as for the m125: this model will bring in a few thousand new Palm users, meaning that there will be more programs that *everyone* can use. Live with it's existence (if you haven't already) and move on.

Eric Garrido

RE: Help
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 7:46:30 PM #
> "hey, my sony is better than your 505" and vice versa

I don't want to drag this out, but there never was a vice versa. Someone started a thread that bashed every Palm device available and said how great Sonys are and that Palm is about dead. I tried to point out that the Sony devices are not perfect either, and some idiot(s) kept insisting that I was making a comparison to the m505. If you read the thread carefully, it's obvious that I was not even trying to discuss the m505. All I kept saying is that if you're going to offer a higher-res screen, it ought to be bigger not smaller, and other reasons why I don't think the CLIE's screen is that great (certainly not worth $400-$500). Heck, I wouldn't buy a m505 either for that matter. Neither of their screens are that great for the money.

RE: Help
EGarrido @ 8/12/2001 10:16:36 PM #
I'm talking in general, not specific to this thread. It's almost always the same thing, no matter which thread you go to. Palms vs. Sonys. And then at the end there are comment from people like me who thing some people could turn it down a little.

Think about the larger picture.

Not to be corney, but "can't we all get along?"

Eric Garrido

How can this be called m125?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 10:38:43 AM #
I know this fits in with the m100 series in that it is a very budget PDA, but I don't see why they would call it the m125. There are loads of things at your favorite computer store that say "For m100 series handhelds". If this has the universal connector, then that means consumers will have to pick products that say "Designed for m500 series handhelds."

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just saying a lot of consumers will be confused by this if it indeed is called the m125. Any thoughts?

RE: How can this be called m125?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 5:50:03 PM #
Yeah, if the connector is different and this is supposed to be a III type replacement, they should've called it the m3xx.

RE: How can this be called m125?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 5:51:57 PM #
I posted the reply above, but I had some other thoughts. Maybe Palm wants to distance it from the m500 as much as possible and that's the reason for the m125 designation. Also, it sounds like it might be replacing one of the m10x's so that could be another reason.

I bet the m125 is replacing both the m100 and m105.
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 6:31:22 PM #
This way, Palm and vendors can stick with and develop accesories on one standard - the beloved "Universal Connector". So, we will have:

m125 - low price point
m500 - mid
m505 - high
m700 - high

And also, everything in the Palm product line will have SD and the Universal Connector. They really want to have SD hit critical mass and become THE standard. The m100 was an ill-conceived stop-gap for the low end. The only question is, is there room for an m30x? What gap would an m30x fill if any?

p.s. - Sorry if I stated what is the obvious to some.
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 6:37:36 PM #
.

why is everybody fussing over about palm?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 8:32:15 PM #
Palm is finished, not only palm but all the other palm OS-based PDA. Why? Because prices of the PocketPC are soon or later going to be comparable to today's prices for the Palm-OS based PDA. The Compaq Ipaq 3100 for example sells for 299. It definitely offers more than any palmOS pda in terms of memory, expansion, screen, OS. IMHO, anyone who even considers to buy a Palm, handspring or whatever is an idiot.

RE: why is everybody fussing over about palm?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/13/2001 7:32:24 AM #
Hey Troll:

Go back to your PocketPC forum where you belong and let us continue our Palm vs. Sony wars in peace.

RE: why is everybody fussing over about palm?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/13/2001 10:12:45 AM #
Pocket PC=
1. Quirky Performance from a lousy, complicated mess of an OS

2. Not a truly portable device, which kinda defeats its own purpose for a lot of people...

3. The ABSOLUTE WORST ! Graffiti writing system!

4. Not as well accepted into the business world as PALM..

5. Just Plain, stupid unplanned, GARBAGE!!!!!!!
IF YOU DON'T LIKE PALM OS, THEN GO TO BRIGHTGHAND, OR ANY OTHER PC POCKEDT SISSY SITE...


Stick your screen...

Azureguy @ 8/12/2001 9:36:04 PM #
back in the box and pick up a Handera 330, cuz I would if I could afford it =) Guys, Palm is about SIMPLICITY, it was created to cater to business professionals, not a bunch of obsessed men, of course I'm one of them, but give me a break! Yes some people are excessively obsessed with their m505, Clie, or IIIxe (me!) but please, stop saying remarks that are going to offend a group in the palm community.

If I wanted a
•hi-res screen
•16-bit Colour
•MP3 playback
•Access to a huge library of software
•Cheap memory expansion
of course I would get a Clie, it would make sense

If I wanted
•Light-weight
•16-bit colour
•Access to a huge library of software
•Business oriented features
I would buy a m505

If I wanted
•hi-res screen
• expandability
•huge assortment of peripherals
•Access to a huge library of software
•An amplified internal speaker (which saves me $10 on buying an alarm clock)
I would get a 330

There those are a broad definition (so no one get your feathers in a ruffle, cuz if this gets you angry-buy a IIIxe and a pair of rollerblades and enjoy the real world for a few hours, the sun and fresh air tends to clear out the cobwebs =)

Take care!

My first impression...

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2001 10:58:23 PM #
OH my gosh...no freaken way!!! $400 to the cost of the Palm? No thanks. I have my Clie which does MP3 and some. BTW I just dropped some $$$ for a BOSE Lifestyle 40(speakers and audio component) for less than this piece of sh*t combined with the Palm. Just my 2 cents.

RE: My first impression...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/13/2001 10:09:32 AM #
Oh NO! Don't start a BOSE Flameware!!!! ;)

RE: My first impression...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/13/2001 10:19:12 AM #
I agree... Sony got smart and adjusted it's prices.. I'm buying a Color Clie on my next purchase...

Last 6 months.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/13/2001 1:07:28 PM #
In the last 6 months, Palminfocenter has gone from a place of useful discussion to senseless bickering. Week in Review's typically get about 3 quiet comments, and today we have tons of attacks on eachother. I really believe only a few people are causing this, and I hope not everyone buys into this approach. Why can't we just get along?

m125 Pics

Moosecat @ 8/14/2001 6:01:32 PM #
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