Comments on: Palm Easily Retains Lead in Worldwide PDA Shipments
Palm Inc. had 29.7% of worldwide PDA sales with 745 thousand units sold during the third quarter of 2001. That's a slight drop from its 31.7% in Q2. In the U.S., Palm had 38%, down from 40%
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RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Microsoft, Compaq, HP and others, if you are listening, multimedia functions are NOT necessary in a business environment. If you continue to make products that can play movies and music well and yet, crash and lose important data as well as make it difficult to access this data, then your market share will dwindle. Especially if you continue to charge 600-800 bucks.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Better luck with the XBox! ;)
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
I believe there are many people "waiting" for PPC2002.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
As for the 8 hours battery life that's another myth. Don't forget that it's 8 hours of *continual* use. My Visor on very good rechargeable batteries lasted me about 5-6 days of usage, my iPaq about 2 days. It's not as horrible as you say...
Oh and by the way, have you seen that all the PalmOS machines that are becoming the more populars are the one that are adding more functions like the pocket pc? mp3 player, color screen, movie playing, expansion slots... you find some of these in the Palm m505, Sony Clié, Handera 330.
And for the record, my brand new iPaq cost more than 100$can less than a Palm m505...
Sorry for the long post...
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Cheers!
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Now don't look to me as the bad guy here... I am just pointing out the obvious. What the Palm community doesn't want to look at is costing them. Every single Palm unit you see now and all the money and accessories and software you have now and invested in your palm will be a waste when the new Palm arm processors hit the market. Tht too me sounds like starting over. I am more worried about Palm than I am about PPCs. Palm has made themslevs looke like the biggest @$$ to the world with the market share dropping to just over 2 bucks, loosing a deal with a company they were about to purchase cause there stocks weren't worth a pile of S**t when the deals was suppose to go through, There new complex, having to back out cause they had no more money, and grossly over pile of invetory for a product that was no longer in high demand, the m505...(need I say more to the disappointment?) Their compettors making new innovation while they are wasting their time attacking their own customers for using the word PALM in their websites. It's Palm that looks like they don't know what they are doing. Like they are making up the business plan each dayas they wake up or as they go along.
I wouldn't get too excited about palm's lead. It's only nature for people to hold off buying a product when a new one is about to be released. So for MS it is expected. BUT WHAT has Palms excuse been for the LAST YEAR??????
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Yeah, and they are, at least, $100.00 cheaper...for example:
A Clie N760C with 64MB Stick is $550. An 64 MB Ipaq 3870 is $659.00 or more. The whole point is why keep charging 20% more than the competition when, as of recently, the competitions product is doing what you can do?
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Let me tell you something. If Microsoft only made profits off of PocketPC products, they would have gone out of business a long time ago. I can almost bet that they are losing money on PPC. They are STILL not outselling Palm in the PDA market and Palm is at, as you say, $2.00 a share. MSFT has the cash from their slew of other products to keep throwing money into PPC. Now, in saying that, drop the nonsense and understand that MSFT has no idea what everybody wants in a PDA and how to get it to them cheap.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
By the way, I love and hate Microsoft.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Well that's not what i'm seeing. I see the iPaq 3635 at 550$can, the Casio e-125 at 500$, etc... The new HP and iPaq are at 900$can to 1000$can (for 64meg). The Palm m505 is 700$can and the Sony clié is 800$!
"A Clie N760C with 64MB Stick is $550. An 64 MB Ipaq 3870 is $659.00 or more. The whole point is why keep charging 20% more than the competition when, as of recently, the competitions product is doing what you can do?"
Well i think you could not have taken a worse comparison between 2 products. The clie comes with 8meg of ram while the Ipaq has 64meg. Take a 32meg 3635 ipaq and buy a 32meg SD card and look at the price. The worse in this is that you took the 3870 price... the one with integrated Bluetooth!
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
-Raishe
"Monster Pig eats Jesus
More at 11"
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Internet Explorer vs. Netscape Navigator
EVERYONE bashed IE when it came out. Now...Netscape is out. That's why Palm is shaking in their boots. Granted they are still the market leader but their profit margins are sooo low (along with their stock price) due to the price wars. Granted I'm a Palm user (Clie 760), I foresee th PPC to dominate maybe not now but later on.
MS has the deep pockets to ride the PDA roller coaster. I hope that Palm make it but I'm not tryin to deny the inevitable. I hope I'm wrong...
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Netscape vs. I.E.
I.E. wins because it is illegally bundled into Windows 98. Also, it wins because it is FREE.
Who is going to buy a version of I.E. if it charges you $30? (Hmm. Yeah the service packs should be free.)
Now, Pocket PCs are even more expensive than Palm handhelds. Who is expecting Pocket PCs to win?
What M$ should do is to give out free Pocket PCs in Christmas so that it can regain some market share. After the battery life is used up, it can be thrown like snowballs because it is as goog as bricks.
Don't! That hurts! :-p
Commitment of software developers is the key......
Some years ago a company called Microsoft "got" an idea to use GUI for its windows software, but then they crash so much people don't want to use it. But then they stuck with MS windows because they have a kick-butt software called MS office, which is always a version faster than the Mac counterpart...
Though there are many reason which I won't discuss why Mac is where it is right now, the point I was trying to make is that - if Palm has many dedicated developers with customised software available that stretches Palm OS's limits, Palm should be able to continue its dominance in the PDA market. Microsoft has to fight battles in many fronts (XBOX), there might not be enough resources to catapult the PPC.
But Palm, don't seat on your success, innovate more and innovate often.......;->
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
I for one will hold on to my Visor and start saving money while the battle of PocketPC vs PalmOS goes on.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
> and accessories and software you have now and invested
> in your palm will be a waste when the new Palm arm
> processors hit the market.
This is just not true. OS 5 will run all current Palm applications. All handhelds from Palm will use the Universal Connector (from the m500 series and m125) for at least the next 2 years.
Ignore this troll's FUD!!
Please, let me laugh at you.
>
>Ignore this troll's FUD!!
To the Troll..
OS 5 is VAPORWARE. Don't tell me what OS 5 WHISHES to have when Palm is still trying to buy BE to help them get their heads out of their @$$'es in trying to make their OS with more multimedia functions.. Besides.... HOW MANY DEVELOPERS do you know still write software for Windows 95?????? Maybe a few..but hardly anyone.. Even though most of all Apps for Win 95 will still run on WinXP hardly anyone is still writing just for Win95. The same will hold true with the new OS 5. IF Palm had the talent and ability to make their new OS backwards compatible (Ha..good luck) What makes you think people will keep writing apps that will only run on the old technology of Palm? Hence..
EVERYTHING YOU SEE NOW for Palm will be of no use... And you will windup having to buy new stuff..ALL OVER AGAIN.
BESIDES..Here is something to think about. HOW LONG Do you think the new Palms if and when they ever come out with the new OS, and new Arm processors running at 206 or 412 mhz will last with a color screen? You actually think it will get any better time than any PPCs now?? U think you will be able to use 2 AAA batteries? I will give you a hint. The Palm IIIc get's worse battery time than any PPC out there with a slower processor and smaller display. I'd say Palm users are the ones who look foolish for barking and complaining when their own devices can't even compare.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
That's not really the point... i'm saying that now, with the PPC2002, the PPC2000 devices are cheaper than the top of the line Palm OS machines. The previous comparison between a Clie and a 3870 iPaq isn't really fair.
How much ram in a pocket pc is supposed to be equal to the 8meg of ram of a Palm machine? Don't forget that you do more with the PPC than a Palm. Running multiple programs at the same time, running videos, running a newsreader with over 1000-2000 messages, etc... sure that consume lots of ram but try that with a Palm!
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Battery Life - The Palm IIIc has a continual runtime of up to 16 hours on a single charge. In the real world of cranking up the brightness to impress onlookers, you get 12 to 14 hours. The iPaq will run 3.5 hours with the sidelights turned down to a moderate level, knock that time down to 2.5 if you turn the sidelights up. This is not a problem unless you are traveling, or put more than 3 hours of use on your device a day. For travel, there ARE travel chargers for most handhelds, but to tell the truth I only used mine once on my former IIIc just to see if it worked.
Memory - I have a 72Mb Palm with no "helper apps" to run things from the card, so forget about the 8Mb glass ceiling for Palms, it no longer exists.
Multimedia - Don't know where the idea came from that Palms cannot do multimedia... I have about a dozen media clips, trailers, and music videos. Yes, that's with sound.
Multi tasking - I've never seen anyone on a PPC actually USE more than one app on the screen. The other apps may be open, but they are covered up while the user is doing something else. The ability to do is good, but I don't see it in the real world being used a lot. It DOES serve some purpose, as I don't know what I'd do if I could not access my notepad, address book, and others while in the middle of a telnet session or something. The argument of saving time by not closing the app does not stand, how much faster than "instant" do you want?
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Of course we have to look at the big picture: Everyone with a handheld... take a look at it. It does not matter if it is a PPC with more processing than a mini mainframe, or if it is a Palm OS device running full multimedia, 45 applications, and half a gig of memory. Every one of them will be obsolete in 2 years. So enjoy the device you prefer... if it does what you want, then you have the correct device.
Goodbye Mr. Troll
You've stopped listening to facts that don't agree with what you've already made up your mind about so I'm going to stop talking to you with one final statement: Palm showed off OS 5 almost a year ago running current Palm apps on an ARM-based processor. So you are totally wrong about that. You totally ignored me when I said Palm would be using the Universal Connector for another couple of years because that wasn't what you wanted to hear. So your statement that all peripherals would have to be replaced wasn't just wrong, it is now a lie because you know that's not true. When you start having to support your arguments with lies, you lose.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
And suppose that by closing your telnet client and switching to notepad you loose the connection? not very good...
Hmmmm, i suppose someone listening to an mp3, while having MSN messenger to chat and surfing the web will not be used in the real world?
The other thing you are missing, it's not really the time saved (as you say, on the Palm it's instant) but it's the fact that the apps is still running in the background. While my very big list of newsgroups is loading, i can look at my appointments of the week, etc... (and BTW don't tell me that a Palm would have opened these newsgroups faster... it's false, i know, i had one).
Multitasking has it's use!
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Well i think there is a difference. The PPC2002 devices have been announced for a while now while the OS5 devices are nowhere to be seen... (if you know where we could see them, give me a link, i would be interested). That's normal than people are waiting for the new PPC2002 machines.
Just look at Palm when they announced too soon their m505.
I think the christmas season will be the real test...
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
I listen to mp3s and surf the Web all the time on my N760C.
RE: Goodbye PocketPC!
Exactly my point, multitasking has its use. The only difference is that your Clié is able to do that because they built a mp3 player into their PDA.
Palm outsells Compaq four to one...
RE: Sony
---------------------------------------
When you find yourself in the company of a halfling and an ill-tempered Dragon, remember, you do not have to outrun the Dragon...you just have to outrun the halfling.
RE: Sony
and just recently in a cnet news article the Clie S320 is number 3 in retail sales.
RE: Sony
Price
With M10X series below $200, Palm sells because it works and it's cheap.
If you've got a big budget to blow before year end and a requirement to limit yourself to a M$ platform, by all means get a PPC.
I'd rather get tools in the hands of those who need it as opposed to having it look cool (wow it's windows) and be politically correct to the folks paid off by M$.
RE: Price
PPC is great!
Palm is crap.
They're toys, not real computing tools.
They have no corporate support either!
RE: Price
You are talking about PPC, aren´t you? They crash and eat your batteries (8 hours at most), weigh double than a m505, need an extra sleeve for expansion, etc. (I forgot that you need a bigger shirt pocket...)
Corporate support?
Maybe you don´t know how to surf the web or use Google, I won´t teach you, but there are lots of corporate solutions for PalmOS, and support from Palm inc. is more than adequate. (You don´t need technical support because they are easy to use, two taps and you are on the soft you want, and they work and don´t crash).
RE: Price
Palm is heavily used in the corporate arena. It's a tool (just like ppc), not a toy.
I'm not playing favorites here. They both have their own following for their own reasons. Me, I'm a palm person, but that's me.
Isn't there a ppc forum for you to hang out at... You jerk!
RE: Price
Isn´t Palm Infocenter a center for Palm related information? Why is PPC people always here bashing Sony, HandEra, IBM, Handspring, Palm, etc.?
Don´t they have a specialized site to explore and know about the new marvels of MS?
I know there are some inteligent guys who make really impressive software for that platform and some accesories too, so I think that there must be something interesting to discuss out there...
RE: Price
First of all, if you want to compare, you *have to* try and experience with both of the products first. So many of you are saying that PPC has a short battery of life when compared to PalmOS, but have you tried and proved this before? You believe because this is what you heard. And so many of you is saying that PalmOS can also play a main part in corporate market? But have you noticed that not many company is investing PalmOS extensions into the corporate market because it is going to be a large investment?
It's a good thing to have opinion, but you shouldn't trash another product simply because it's made by the company you don't like. (by the way, do you know those guys who invented PalmOS is now HangSpring? wouldn't you say HangSpring sucks now?)
RE: Price
RE: Price
I have been a Visor user for some times. And I need to shed some FACTUAL truths to all of you.
My Visor crashed more often than ever any PPC has ever. Now my Visor didn't crash often, but it did crash on the average of 2 or 3 times a month. Loading new software, trail versions, over clocking, and so on.
I have also been using a PPC for a while for reasons that are so obvious that more than of Palm community refuses to see. That being said, My PPC has never crashed.. this on top of trying the latest cutting edge beta software, and with a hacked up version of PPC2002 OS. I have been using the PPC heavliy for over 7 months and with both OSes I have never had problems..
So please lets stop using the "Oh MS crashes" issue... cause it's old, and not true. PPC do cost a lot more... I will admit.. But take any Palm os device and out fit it so it can do half as much as any of the latest PPCs, memory, mp3 if even you wanted too, and you would of spend way more than any PPC would of cost
RE: Price
The Palm is not crap. It's a great, mature platform with a dedicated and committed user base.
It has terrific corporate support. You'd be amazed at how many Palm OS handhelds have been bought by corporations for their employees. Vertical apps are there too - look at Symbol.
Palm and Handspring (not Hang-spring) should be thanked for getting the units down in price so everyone can afford one. You don't see a PPC for $100. True, it's not color and doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it still performs the core functions. If you want the extra features or functions, spend more money or add the software or peripheral later.
Microsoft is in this market because Bill Gates wants to have influence over it and ultimately control it like Windows.
Have you looked at PPC 2002? It's cool. It has nifty watermarks on the screen. And the power of Microsoft behind it.
I remember many years ago, the logic was to purchase IBM products "because no one was ever fired by buying IBM". Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer rely on a similar thinking - no one is ever fired by buying Microsoft.
So, look beyond big brother's safe "PPC" choice. Support the Palm platform in both the home and corporate environments.
RE: Price
By the way I work in a large Healthcare company and Palm OS and Palm are our national standard. PPC's are not even on a draft standard waiting for review.
So........ I guess it depends on what need. The only PPC's I have seen here are by the Desktop support staff who brought them from home.
RE: Price
I get there just like you, only the car looks different.
Chew on that.
RE: Price
RE: Price
Both Palm and PPC as well as any other handheld is just that, a handheld. It's not a way of life. It's a tool. Some people like to use power tools some people like had tools, some even like antique tools. Guess what. They all work for the people using them.
All this name calling and anger over a plastic and metal device is silly and slightly sad. Enjoy whatever tool you have chosen and be happy.
RE: Price
require one ultimate winner. This is the glass ceiling that drives our media and the people responding to this post.
I would worry much more about a different operating system encroaching on palm and PPc's market much more than
either ultimatly getting it all. The science of handheld ergonomics, personal information efficency and user connectivity
is still in it's infancy. The Plam OS is super. Lets use this board to explore its pros and cons and leave those of the PPC OS
up to it's users.
George
Speak softly and carry a big memory stick.
Pocket PC users
What site am I surfing? Hm... It is PALMinfocenter.com
I think I am surfing the wrong site here. It would be PocketPCinfocenter.com
Anyways, for some of the true Pocket PC fans, no matter how you defend your product. Just admit that Pocket PC is unreliable as Firestone tires on Explorer. Your Explorer will not crash does not mean that other Explorers will not crash. Understand?
If there is a NHTSA for cars, there should be something similar for PDAs. It will recalls all Pocket PCs that have problems. It will rank Pocket PCs two stars for frontal crash test and marginal on rollover.
Where is your friend, Gartner Dataqest? It is famous for biased number towards M$.
P.S. Give me $600 bucks and perhaps I will buy a Pocket PC. Indeed, I will buy a Palm m505 and save the extra $200 for some cool shirts that can fit my Palm m505. By the way, I owned a Palm m505 already. So, what should I do? Should I hang out PocketPCinfocenter.com? Am I lost? Don't... :-p
Wrong Info......
For the record, Apple was the first easy-to-use computer that implemented GUI. Windows did crash very often when version 3.0 came out, while Macs are already very stable.
PPC is simply to bulky (hard and soft) for people to use, period
RE: Price
It's amazing what a little bit of schooling, learning, and education can do. I'd say most Palm users could learn a PPC or any other platform if they would stop complaining and actually tried to learn something much like a kindergarden can do. Just maybe more Palm users whether they switched or over or not would find more use for their PDAs, than besides a coaster..and maybe people will actually carrier ther PDAs with them.
RE: Price
It starts out commenting on a lack of education. But, it is comprised of run-on sentences that change points in the middle.
The post ultimately makes no point at all.
I'm not surprised that it was posted anonymously.
RE: Price
RE: Price
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PALM OS
End the discussion.
We all like what we like.
We solved nothing.
It will eventually be solved it in the marketplace.
I don't care if yours/mine is bigger/better/stronger/weaker/lousy/smaller than mine/yours.
Let's move on.
Thank you.
Have a nice day, kids.
Palm is doomed... or not
Long live Nokia... hmm nope they are only doing well in Europe...
It looks like we are all doomed... except perhaps those cunning people that saw the end of the handheld revolution and bought into paper and pencils
Serious point here... don't write off any brand/OS on the basis of one or two quarters' information. This business is cyclicle. Consumers are generally pretty savvy and know what is on the way from various companies so quarterly figures are very heavily influenced by rumour of impending products.
Carts and horses
It is not the case that PocketPC sales are down because of the announcement of the PocketPC2002. Quite the reverse.
Companies like HP and Compaq are going through a tough time in their core businesses at the moment. On top of that, in the handheld market (which for them is a sideshow), they see their market share declining consistently and they find themselves having to reduce their prices to stay in the game. This is not good. In fact, at a time when they have more than enough on their hands just to keep their main businesses afloat, they are becoming less and less willing to devote time and money to the handheld market. And let's not make any mistake, saddled with the WinCE/PocketPC, this market was never going to be a goldmine for them. Their commitment to Uncle Bill's folly is now shaky (at best).
To put it bluntly, the reason why PocketPC2002 was announced so early is that certain M$ executives were forced into it, so that they could point to something in the future which they can sell to the manufacturers a "light at the end of the tunnel". The early announcement was just an attempt to prevent a mutiny, to try to keep some of the manufacturers in the game. M$ simply cannot afford too many more situations like what occurred when Phillips dumped WinCE a couple of years back.
So, you see, the annnoucement was made because of poor sales; the annoucement was not, as Gartner say, the cause of this unacceptable result.
Another consideration is that Redmond is not exactly united when it comes to support for PocketPC. It has now gone well past the stage of quiet whispers in the corridors. Questions are being asked, openly, about the viability of PocketPC. The beancounters are sharpening their knives. Unless there is a turnaround soon, the pressure will build until there is only one alternative left.
There is a very real prospect that PocketPC2002 will be axed early next year.
RE: Carts and horses
Palm is probably going to announce "a major restructuring" (last step before declaring bankruptcy) soon after Christmas.
Handspring is withering on the vine. (If their Treo fails - and it will once Sony enters the wireless game - they will follow Palm in filing Chapter 11.
HandEra has fallen on hard times (despite what their three shrill supporters on this site keep saying) after gambling and reinventing itself as a PDA company. I wonder why Sam's Club dumped them so quickly... Who else is selling HandEras?
Sony is rapidly expanding its sales and will probably sqeeeze everyone else out by undercutting prices and providing better hardware. Once Palm's hardware sales nosedive this quarter, expect Sony the White Knight to swoop in.
RE: Carts and horses
Goodbye Palm
RE: Goodbye Compaq and HP
Besides, you've never owned a Palm in your life. You've had a WinCE since 97 and never even tried a Palm. Billy Gates told you it was bad and you believe everything it says. Begone, Microserf.
RE: Goodbye Palm
thousand as well. The merger is estimated to bring addtional layoffs/attrition of 15,000.
Latest Comments
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Goodbye PocketPC!
Better luck next time, Microsoft! =)