Comments on: Sony Announces PEG-T600C

The rumors of Sony creating a color handheld similar to the T415 have proved to be correct. They announced in Japan today the PEG-600C. It is close in size to the T415 but the new model is .49 inches thick rather than .39. It is also .4 ounces heavier. Still, Sony crammed a lot into that small casing. It has a 320 by 320 pixel TFT screen that can display 16-bit color. It also has 16 MB of RAM and runs OS 4.1. It will be available in Japan on December 8 for 40,000 Yen, which is about $325. It is not yet known when a U.S. version will be available or at what price.
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No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?

robrecht @ 11/19/2001 10:18:01 AM #
Other than MP3, would this be top of the line SONY in terms of features and design?

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 10:24:03 AM #
It can use .WAV files at least. And there's a CompactFlash sleeve! The first CLIE that doesn't -- apparently -- need Memory Stick for storage. (You can use the MS slot for the camera or GPS sticks that were also announced.)

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
rsuplido @ 11/19/2001 10:42:13 AM #
There's no built in MP3 player but there is an accessory for it (see link below). They'd all ship by December 8.


RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 10:45:42 AM #
CF sleeve??

Very very cool. I'm not a big fan of adding a bulky sleeve to my device, but since this device is small to begin with, the sleeve might just expand it to be a regular PDA's width.

CF would be great. It's the cheapest memory i've found out there.

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
mtg101 @ 11/19/2001 11:06:16 AM #
I'm afraid it won't be supporting CF Memory - just CF comms... so you still only have MS as a memory format.

You didn't think Sony would let you ue something other than MS would you??? :-)

Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 11:11:02 AM # could happen.

not very likely, still.


RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:11:38 AM #
Are you quite sure of that?! Even if Sony doesn't support it, who said a 3rd-party couldn't hack it?

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:21:41 AM #
Hmmm... I have checked other sites. What *Sony* is saying is that this CF sled is a "Communications Card Adapter" (it hs its own battery too, if I'm not mistaken). But this *is* CF. There has to be a way to make it access just CF memory. I'm sure someone will hack it. (There's a CF adapter for the m5xxs out in Japan that connects to the UC port. If that can work, so could this.)

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
rsuplido @ 11/19/2001 11:25:05 AM #
MP3 accessory pic:

Babelfish Translation:
"Power source to be supplied from the CLIE, music playback time approximately 4 - 5 hours. As for size 30ラ74ラ12 millimeter, as for weight 40 grams. As for bit rate 32 - 128kbps (sampling 44.1kHz) . The headphone and installation CD-ROM et cetera of inner ear type belong to the product. As for price open price (approximately market expectation price 1 ten thousand 3000 Yen)."

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:30:38 AM #
Isn't that simply the same MP3 clip on that the S320 and the N600 can use, with a new connector for the T series?

RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
Ed @ 11/19/2001 11:41:45 AM #
Yes. When the T415 was announced, they announced an audio adapter for it at the same time. It was described to me just like you just did, as the same adapter with a different plug.

News Editor
RE: No MP3, but otherwise top of the line SONY?
rsuplido @ 11/19/2001 11:46:44 AM #
Yup, they didn't forget to include it. I think it's a better solution to make it a separate accessory since not everyone wants it. Also, it brings the price down.

Wow, they did it!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 10:17:09 AM #
I love seeing the new units come out, but sheesh, I've gotta watch my spending. I have an n710c (now n760c), and my mouth is watering over this one. I'll have to hold myself back.

I didn't think they'd be able to pull this unit off, at least not so soon.

Palm and Handspring better get their acts in gear, because with all these new units, Sony's going to pull the rug out from under them.

RE: Wow, they did it!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:10:26 PM #
I have a brand new 760c that I haven't even opened yet (the box is still shrink-wrapped). I'm thinking I don't really need the MP3 features, so I may sell it and get a 700c instead. What do you think I can get for the unopened 760c?

RE: Wow, they did it!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 6:50:43 AM #
almost what i had in mind except for a 66 MHz proc. may get this. Since I'm in Asia, I'll think it'll get here first. Especially with taiwanese fixation on all things Japanese.

Put the story back up!!!

kd @ 11/19/2001 10:35:08 AM #
Why'd the story get taken down???

Special Edition m505's? NOT!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 10:47:45 AM #
I'll just wait for this. It comes in 'Patriot Blue' too! :)

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:04:40 AM #

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:31:43 AM #
Oh,yes...u r right ...'Patriot Blue' . ha ha ha

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:51:05 PM #
Comparing to Sony, Palm is a BIG JOKE (in fact, same for all three "original" Palm manufacturers: Palm, Handspring, and Handera)! I am a certified idoit --- placed an order (M505, because the net price is around $300) over the weekend from Dell. With this new Sony Clie, I am sending tons of email to Dell to cancel my order!!!

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:14:11 PM #
i hope you like waiting....

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:53:43 PM #
When the 710 is out....: m505 is thinner...!
When the 760 is out....: OS 4.0 on m505is good enough dud...
When the T415 is out....: m505's screen is colour!
When the T600 is out....: Palm, anymore things left?'s really time for you to do something.....other than the patriot blue......LoL

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 3:00:13 PM #
When the T600 is out....: m505 has America RED !!!

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 3:20:26 PM #
Let's see.... according to Palm's marketing history... Tiger Wood edition m505 (green)? Pamela Anderson Edition (blonde)?

... Sorry, but I just cannot stop joking at Palm's creativity and innovation!!!

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
dhchung @ 11/19/2001 8:58:11 PM #
In my opinion, the above comparison should be like this:

When the 710 is out....: none of the palm PDA can play MP3...!
When the 760 is out....: palm still only has the old 505 and think it's good enough...
When the T415 is out....: the equiv class m500 is still using 160x160!
When the T600 is out....: Palm, anymore things left?

When the m505 has America RED !!!....: N610C got 2 colors 1/2 year ago (don't forget that T600 got 2 colors too :)

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 5:46:56 AM #
well.. CLIE T600C has Japanese Silver.... VS m505 American Red

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 10:09:51 PM #
Gee, Palm is really mucking it. To try and sell duds by calling it America Red and Patriotic Blue? Thank God somebody had the sense to send cArL Yankovich (or is he really Carl Yankowski?) to spend the rest of his days somwehere else where his jokes will have a more appreciating audience.

But I guess one last joke from this joker is just too much to take. Maybe he thought he could kill 2 birds with one stone by sending leftover colored M505's to Kabul and write it off as Palm goodwill.

Jeff Hawkins, can you please spare us from more bad jokes?

RE: Special Edition m505's? NOT!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/26/2001 10:59:11 AM #
Yes, I agree with you all, Sony is releasing more
advanced pdas, but we cannot just laugh at Palm
just because M505 is not as advanced as T series.
At least they created it! (ok, ok, it was 3com).
Anyway, Sony is huge, has lots of resources and
they also have tradition in delivering high quality
tiny devices with metalic cases, which is really
cool (see the long line of portable MD players, one
smaller than the other...)

But Palm is still behind the PalmOS, and they are
doing a good job supporting developers (quality
OS and programs make a good pda). Sony, on the
other hand, is well known for their not-so-good
support, if they also take over the OS it will be
a disaster! Yet, they love to create their own
standards for everything, from Betamax video to
MemoryStick, which I personally don't like.

Anyway, I'm far from Asia and the new T600, but
I'm happy with my T415: nice pda, great OS!


Finally, 802.11!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 10:49:43 AM #

The link to the CF adapter "sled" looks like it is using a CF 802.11 card which means no big, bulky Xircom sled like the m505 uses.

This could be the Palm I've been waiting for.

RE: Finally, 802.11!!
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:05:05 AM #
That's actually a wireless net card, the AirPetit, which seems to be very big in Japan right now. Don't know if it's 802.11b or uses cells ala DoCoMo.

RE: Finally, 802.11!!
Ed @ 11/19/2001 1:15:23 PM #
I just heard from my Sony contact that the CF sled will only be available in Japan.

News Editor
RE: Finally, 802.11!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 7:05:22 AM #
Those are PHS cards, 14.4kbps (analog) and 64kbps (digital/ISDN).

Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 10:50:50 AM #

This is innovation! We don't need someone telling me that this or that cannot be done.

Fat Phone Guy!

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:00:00 AM #
I knew you would say something and I was waiting. This is 25% thicker than the T415. They COULDN'T fit a color screen into the T415's shape.

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:18:31 AM # m505 can't fit in a m500 case....BIG DEAL!

Bottom line is that this is tinner than m505 and has a 320x320 with MP3 capability, now with CLIE gear they can even expand it way beyond what Palm does. They even surpass their own n610, all available Dec 8

Tell Palm to do that.....or just eat dust!

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:04:23 PM #
Keep in mind, it's available IN JAPAN.

Granted, it'll eventually launch in the US, but when?

Once it launches in the US, what if you get a bad unit? Sony is notorious for poor tech support.

Plus, with all this innovation, why on earth is Sony focusing on making the thing a glorified remote control? I've got much better ideas for what my PDA can do - I wish Sony would focus more on that.

Hats off to Sony for their innovation, but let's keep some perspective here...

sooner than a Palm with 320x320 display...
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:21:37 PM #
If you insist on the timing of the new unit.

And when Palm eventually does come up with a 320X320 display, God knows what kind of steps Sony will be taking?

As for tech support, Sony will no longer be able to ignore buyers when CLIE captures 20% of the market, that is just too much to lose. Remember the Lexus story and how they manage to compete with Mercedes and BMW?

You'll get the point....

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 2:05:11 PM #
i'm hoping palm won't come out with ANY 320x320 displays, and would just stick to the new OS 5 and making the 320x240 screens a reality.

If we're still on small square screens (REGARDLESS of resolution) next year, then i'd be very very disappointed.

Bigger screens are needed.

Guess it's true after all
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:17:20 PM #
A color version of clie T series at the price point of about $350 US in December.

funny that everybody shot that rumor down in 2 mins.

Available in Japan...
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:01:52 PM #
The phrase "$350 US" is an international-trade designation meaning "350 US Dollars." It does NOT mean the device will be available in the U.S.

Good for the Japanese, but if it's not available in the U.S., then it's still a rumor out here.

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done .......
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:08:04 PM #
I thought that OS5 would be enabling VARIABLE screen resolutions, i'd say that is acceptable for everybody. I dont like the square screen concept either and was wondering: why not 300x400? After all if sony does 320x320, 300 is a bit less, isnt it? Just enlarge downwards and use that nice extra bottom space for virtual graffiti etc.

200x320 may be on the way to being the standard with all those PocketPCs around, but i think 300x400 is still possible. Perhaps it would be somewhat more compatible to the widespread internet resolution of 800x600? What say?

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:01:26 PM #
Variable screen resolution would be every programmer's nightmare. Therefore, I expect Palm will do it. Now every Palm unit maker can use their own resolution standard, and programmers will have to adapt their programs for all possible combinations. NOT! Then we will have the same problems getting software that works well on any individual unit that we do now getting peripherials to fit everyones proprietary expansion connectors.

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 11:07:12 PM #
I agree variable res's would be a coding nightmare.

It will/should be just 2 most likely: the new one (320x240, or whatever), and legacy res 160x160.

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 9:03:22 AM #
Supporting various resolutions is a must if the Palm OS is going to remain as a viable platform. The Palm OS could certainly use some new developer tools to support this. The HandEra 330 already supports a bunch of different resolutions with its various modes. It is not difficult for a competent developer to support various resolutions in the same software, especially with the right tools to support it.

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 3:19:39 AM #
In my own opinion, sony should have done pixel tripling together with virtual graffiti...and a resolution of 480*640 (VGA) (or 320*480 for pixel doubling) could be achieved, which is good for both legacy and future Hi-Res applications...

240*320, in my opinion would not be as good as legacy applications won't be able to fully utilize the screen - you can't multiply the pixels by a factor of 1.5, but you can do it for 2 or 3...

RE: Now would all those who said this cannot be done ...........
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/9/2002 4:16:24 PM #
I'm not impressed with this T615. Have you seen the Sony adds for the T415 with a nice bright white screen? Go look at one in person, there rendition isn't even close to the real thing, which is absolutely horrible! Especially with the hi-res western fonts you can't read anything without a strain. The m500 is highly more readable. I seriously doubt the posted screen image of the nice T615 color display is anything close to what it is in reality. If the next generation of Palm to replace the m505 has hi-res that would be fine, but only if they do a better job with making western style fonts than Sony has done. I would hope the next Palm would have 16mb of RAM (Sony did good there)but would also have a quicker processor than the now oldhat 33mhz this new Sony has. Of course this latest Sony will quickly become obsolete in about 3 months with a new one that might have more processing power. Naw, I think I'll wait 'till spring to see what Palm comes up with.

CF info via babelfish

sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 10:56:16 AM #
For those interested:

The card of compact flash type the communication adapter whose net connection is possible with inserting and the wireless. Without the cable being to be able to connect, it can enjoy Internet and the mail smartly. In addition, it builds in the stamina lithium ion polymer charge pond. Be able to use without consuming the battery " of the クリエ " substance, furthermore to it is possible also " the chestnut エ " substance to do power source supply.

== that's a jp-eng translation of this page

RE: CF info via babelfish
rsuplido @ 11/19/2001 11:21:57 AM #
Here's another:

"As for CF card type communication card corresponding communication adapter " PEGA-SA10 ", " C@rd H of the DDI pocket " 64 petit " " Air H " petit ", " P-in Comp@ct " " P-in M@ster " of the NTT ドコモ, the communication adapter which corresponds to the analog modem card. Because the charge pond is built in, without using the battery of the CLIE besides the fact that it can do communication, at the time of CLIE installing being to be able to do power source supply in the CLIE, as an external battery of the CLIE it can utilize. In addition, also it is possible when the DC IN jack has been equipped, it is possible, installs the adapter to charge the CLIE itself and the communication adapter by the fact that the AC adapter you connect to put in the cradle.

It can also verify communication state in the LED indication to which the battery remaining amount and the utility which can verify card information belong on the picture of the device, are prepared in the adapter. With the LED verification as for being possible " while communicating " " during power source supplying to the CLIE itself " " the battery remaining amount of the communication adapter (3 gradual indication) " " the battery DOWN of the communication adapter (blinking indication) " 5 types " in the midst of charging to communication adapter ".

When the communication ON/OFF switch is prepared in the adapter, " at the time of C@rd H " 64 petit " " Air H " petit " utilization turns to ON it expects and becomes state. The user of both cards " has acquired " the mail address of H link ", " with setting of H " LINK center mail notification has become ON ", " if the condition for acquiring the ID/ password in order to utilize the E mail service of H " LINK center via the PRIN " from the setting of H LINK center ", has been satisfied, at the time of mail arrival the notification by the vibrator, the LED and alarm sound with the cooperation with the CLIE mail, is possible.

As for power source as for lithium ion charge pond built-in and size 70.7×127.6×19.9 millimeter and 90 grams of weight. The porch, installation CD-ROM belongs to the product. As for price open price (approximately market expectation price 1 ten thousand 5000 Yen)"

RE: CF info via babelfish
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:24:22 AM #
vibration? does the CF sleeve add a vibrator, or is there one in the PEG-T600c?

details, please.

RE: CF info via babelfish
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:35:31 AM #
it seems like it's an 'always on' feature.

RE: CF info via babelfish
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:44:16 AM #
Now Sony doesn't have to wait for Motient to deign to provide their "always-on" modem for them.

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:10:45 PM #
according to ZDnet Japan's review, the vibration thing is one of the "silent-alarm", like of the m50x device.

..and it comes with bunch of software, tho some of them are for japanese users in mind.

not forgetting to mention, it has a sound chip in it -FM16poly - finally, it's POLYPHONIC! the review also says the built-in speaker is good. you can costomize all the alarm sound, hotsync sound, and etc with the software comes along with it.

this thing will be hardly beatin for somewhile and it will rule i guess.. but i've read sony's CEO's interview and he is tired of weak power of the current Palm. when OS5 with StrongARM, they'll finally be freed from the limitaion and make a PPC beater, i think.

this is an impressing unit, tho i'll be using my m505 for maybe quite a while... i hope Palm m60x will have virtual graffity!! put an effort, Palm!

RE: CF info via babelfish
Ed @ 11/19/2001 1:17:24 PM #
I just heard from my Sony contact that the CF sled will only be available in Japan.

News Editor
RE: CF info via babelfish
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:34:49 PM #
well, at least as of now, the CF sled can only be used for the CF modem cards. it won't be a CF card adopter.

sony had to make this
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:42:44 PM #
much featured device because of the cell-phones in japan. japanese cell-phones of today's are incredible, the size of them are much smaller than American standard while they have built-in digital-camera, mp3 player, 32 poly sound, two LCDs - one is for an excellent TFT and the other is for additional info, runs Java, email, some of latest ones have TV-phone capability. to compete with this cell-phone, if a PDA is just about poor PIM device, people won't pay attention.

If this had virtual graffiti, I would order it in advance.

robrecht @ 11/19/2001 11:02:52 AM #
If this had virtual graffiti, I would order it in advance.

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: If this had virtual graffiti, I would order it in advanc
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 9:15:05 PM #
Dude, who wouldn't?


sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 11:03:57 AM #
" It will be Available in Japan on December 8 JPY39,800."

Isn't that only about $350?

(i'm going by an online currency convertor here, so if that's way off, please tell me).

RE: Comparative Pics
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:06:59 AM #
Hello! What's this?! A redesigned Launcher? Those are hires icons on there! Look at how many fit at one time.

RE: Comparative Pics
sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 11:09:01 AM #
Let's just hope there's some different font options. I love the hi res, but the thin fonts were tough to read when the icons were big. Can't imagine them being even smaller...

RE: Comparative Pics
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:09:50 AM #
awww, sweet! i want one now!!!!

RE: Comparative Pics
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:12:53 AM #
Too bad they did not put the T600C next to an m505 for a thickness comparison. I'd like to see that.

RE: Comparative Pics
ardiri @ 11/19/2001 11:29:42 AM #
Hello! What's this?! A redesigned Launcher? Those are hires icons on there! Look at how many fit at one time.

crs launcher :) its so cool to have 30 icons on the screen at any one point in time :) beats the standard 12 :P

// az

RE: Comparative Pics
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:31:43 AM #
Yeah, but this looks like *Sony* has put hires in the Launcher. I don't think owners will need CRS-Launcher.

RE: Comparative Pics
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:26:01 PM #
CRSLauncher is tabbed and its free. It is outstanding that there is some individuality with each unit that they are releasing. Correct me if I am too deep here but it seems like the Clie owners are not angry about these new products but applauding the innovation. Its nice to see for once!

RE: Comparative Pics
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:54:30 PM #
Does CRS Launcher support memory stick?

What is latest release and where can I download it?

I have problems finding a homepage even with google, which I didn't expect...


Crs-Launcher 0.8a
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:15:42 PM #
here you go:

it doesn't say about MS but it maybe supports, i hope.

RE: Comparative Pics
cpwoo @ 11/19/2001 5:32:27 PM #
They did compare with m505 ... sort of. Isn't Workpad C3 the same as m505? According to the comparative picture, T600 is definitely thinner than m505, albeit by only little.

All you ever wanted to hear about Sony's handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 8:46:46 PM #

Even has basically every good color or high res Clie program around. This group rocks!

RE: Comparative Pics
srs112233 @ 11/19/2001 10:05:16 PM #
Hey, using altavista, i can proudly say i learned that the launcher on the T600 has default high res appearance, capible of displaying 5x4 icons per screnn(20 icons)!!

RE: Comparative Pics
mikecane @ 11/20/2001 8:45:47 AM #
cpwoo wrote: They did compare with m505 ... sort of. Isn't Workpad C3 the same as m505? According to the comparative picture, T600 is definitely thinner than m505, albeit by only little.


I meant comparing the color T600 with the m505. They compared the T600 with the N7xx. (If they were intent on comparing Sony to Sony, they should have then compared the T400 to the S320!)

RE: Comparative Pics
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 12:29:37 PM #
Is it just me or did the T415 in the picture have a white background?!?! It wasn't as bright as the T600C but it still looked white to me.

RE: Comparative Pics
NoBackup @ 11/20/2001 1:19:28 PM #
The pictures show a combination of the C3 (IBM), 760C, T415 and T600 the one showing the relationship between the C3 and the CLIE is actually a T400 !

T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:03:03 AM #
If we're really good.

Sony has the toys - but are they willing to put them to a truly worldwide market place.

Thank you Palminfocentre - why is it I keep coming back to see pictures of truly useful devices that we in Europe have not a cat in hells chance of seeing for years. Not sure - but I'll be back.

RE: T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:08:58 AM #
FYI, each geographical section of Sony makes its own decisions as to when products are released. Don't forget that Germany got the N710C upgrade (N770C, was it?) announced there before the US.

RE: T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:12:54 AM #
OK, I'll hold my breath - but if I turn blue, there'll be trouble. It may even be worth it... :)

RE: T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 3:20:54 PM #
Sony is really taking Europeans as trashcan for old products (but high prices).

We had to wait four months to be "offered" the 770C. But they are still selling here the PEG S300. Their first handeld wich have been discontinued since months in Japan and U.S! In the same logic, Sony Europe don't think we could be interested in any other model. So, no 610, no T415, nothing.

And what about extensions? Where is the Bluetooth module? What about 802.11 extension? Where is the modem? Where are the cases, the keyboards? Where is wireless? No to talk about scandalous high prices on Memory sticks. Nothing of this is available in Europe (but sure... in Japan). If it will ever be. Sony "don't communicate".

Sony should, in place of launching a new model every month, assume a minimal support (upgrades, accessories), on released models.

Think about it, before buying. You will be happy, like I was, with their nice "toys". But when will the time begin to extend the toy, you will discover that Sony don't care about it. "Oh! You really bought that model? Did you?".

You're prisonner. It's Sony, proprietary system. If Sony decide, you will be allowed to buy. If they decide not to, you just get the right to shut your mouth up.

Ask them. Where are extensions?

RE: T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:07:40 PM #
100 % Correct. I bought the Clie 710C with FLASH ROM so that upgrades to the latest versions of Palm OS would be a snap. Ooops! Sony wants $50 to give you privilege of sending in the device so that THEY can upgrade it. And their version of Palm software is a pain to install. You must remove any trace of an existing Palm installation from your PC or the Sony software wont install. You need to clean the registry and remove any folders created by an previous installation. The USB cable must be connected to a USB port on the motherboard; no communication possible if you connect to an expansion card USB port. STAY AWAY FROM SONY!!! Just my $0.02

RE: T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:03:32 PM #
that's why you need a Mac , COZ I got clie to sync with my Mac before I could get the palm desktop to install on the PC...... well actually I gave up on trying to intall already...

Consider yourself lucky
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 6:23:27 PM #
If you have ANY PDA's in Europe developed by Sony then you can consider yourself lucky (or unlucky, depending on your position). Here in Australia, Sony doesn't even want to acknowledge the damn things exist, much less give an arrival date. However, given their level of customer support on other devices here, I think I'll be moving to PPC before giving a Clie a try.

RE: T600c due in the UK by Christmas 2008
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 12:52:15 AM #
damn straight. I called sony style australia about the clie and they didn't even know what it was. I think the person on the other end thought I was talking about another company's product! I tried getting a n710 from hong kong, but it was charging almost A$950 - which was the same price I got an iPAQ for! I still prefer palm os over pocket pc, but there's not much choice down here :(

I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:12:28 AM #
I also love the new buttons. Much better than 760/710.

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:32:15 PM #
According to the Sony Site(.jp) There will be two colors, Satin silver (S), & Royal blue (L).

Someone LIKES the buttons ?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:05:58 PM #
You actually LIKE those? I'll bet you like the buttons on the 320/610/710/760, which makes me question your judgement. Those things are HORRIBLE, and these look like they might be worse!

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:13:01 PM #
the judgement of buttons is very personal, I like thos buttons too , does that make me a retard ? I really don't see how much superior those palm buttons are.

are those palm supporters so ran out of idea that theyt need to attack clie's buttons ??

how about say sony don't have the American Cranberry ??

just admit it, palm's handheld design is so 19th century comparing to clie. they got inferior screen, inferior hardware features, and inferior software. Look at those bundles Clie only software, they did more innovation than palm and handspring combined in the last 2 years.

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:55:05 PM #
Dude, I HAVE a Clie 610 AND I think the buttons suck. (No idea on the T415 or T600 buttons though.) I can't push them very easily. Playing button-based games is impossible for me. Of course YMMV but this is the only thing I like better on Palms than Clies.

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:57:51 PM #
> are those palm supporters so ran out of idea that theyt need to attack clie's buttons ??

you don't like clie buttons, you're automatically a palm supporter?

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 6:05:44 PM #
Read my original post - I said I like these NEW buttons but I never liked the 760/710 buttons.

We need a new acroynm here: "RMFP!" - "READ MY F****NG POST!!!!"

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 8:31:37 AM #
OK, so maybe you don't like the 760 buttons. But I agree that the new buttons don't look any better. And for the record, I'm not a "Palm-lover," whatever that means. What's more, I think it's laughable to refer to the Palm as "19th century" because its TECHNICAL standards are not comparable to Sony's. Do you honestly know what century you're living in? Do you consider anything besides the tech specs? If there are "Palm-lovers" out there, then there are DEFINITELY more "Sony-istas" there, too. They're fewer in number, but they're a louder bunch of MF's.

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 8:36:24 AM #
QUOTE: "Read my original post - I said I like these NEW buttons but I never liked the 760/710 buttons.

We need a new acroynm here: 'RMFP!' - 'READ MY F****NG POST!!!!'"

Actually, you said the new ones were "much better than" the old ones. You NEVER stated that you "never liked" the 760/710 buttons. It's entirely possible to like the 760/710 buttons, but like the new "much better than" those. So READ YOUR OWN GDMF POST!!!!!

RE: I love the case color. Looks like a mini-Trinitron TV.
Altema @ 11/20/2001 12:41:54 PM #
The buttons look cool, but has anyone tried out a few games? On some devices you can just put your thumb between the buttons and rock back and forth. However, Defender NEEDS four way control, and is difficult on any set of individual buttons. Anyone want to send me a new Clie so I can do button testing?... :)

More T600C pictures

mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:16:46 AM #
RE: More T600C links
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:37:09 AM #
OK, I'll throw these Japanese links here. Have fun with babelfish!

Where's the middle?

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:10:05 AM #
I don't understand Sony's strategy - all these new units seem to be roughly the same price. The standard model for handheld sales seems to be that there is a low-end entry unit, a middle one that is usually the sweet spot on the profit curve, and then a high-end power-user model. Sony's strategy seems to be different; one model for every $50 price point. Maybe that's wise, but it seems like it's more expensive to develop, and may lead to market confusion. Personally I think it's going to work pretty well at edging out HS and Palm.

RE: Where's the middle?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:31:48 AM #
I suppose Japanese are masters of 'Just in time' methodology. They get to release new models with all the stock of previous models sold. :)

RE: Where's the middle?
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:41:01 AM #
The phrase that is always used to describe Japanese comapnies is, "By the time they put a product on sale, they have already redesigned it for sale six months from now." Seems to me that Sony is making it every three months!


-- have I missed anything? (Alas, Sony did! A 160x160 color screen. No 160x160 upgrade path for S320 owners -- except the m505!)

RE: Where's the middle?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:26:23 PM #
Sony got a pretty long history of releasing many versions of the same product with little difference features, and little difference in price.
look at their MP3 players/ MD player/ walkmans/ DVD player, even AIBO.

There's no way palm can catch up on them, coz palm's not a consumer electronics company after all, they don't have the resource to do so many designs. (actually I don't think any company can really catch up with sony on design not even apple)

RE: Where's the middle?
Mor @ 11/20/2001 10:41:47 AM #
I don't claim to be an expert on this, but the Japanese domestic market for cell phones seems way worse. Manufacturers release new phones every few months. And the consumers feed off on that. News phones are being tossed for newer ones every so often.

RE: Where's the middle?
Altema @ 11/20/2001 12:22:37 PM #
As a heavy user of Sony audio equipment, it seems like they are just doing business as usual. I have bought no fewer than six minidisc recording decks, two portable minidisc devices, and four cassette decks. All are different Sony models, and they all do the same thing except for one or two minor features. When I order a new unit, they never have the same model available. Odd thing is, I have asked Sony about producing a device with specific features, and they will not even respond or acknowledge I exist. Even though some posters here may dislike the conservative hardware approach of Palm, whenever I have any problem, Palm jumps right on it and actually listens.

RE: Where's the middle?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 5:13:17 PM #
and you are??? do you have an inside track to Palm to merit their adherence to your ideas?

T600c via Babelfish

mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:25:07 AM #
The CLIE and memory stick camera /GPS module of SONY and new design
Consecutively from December 8th sale
Ahead communicating: Customer consultation center

Standard price: Opening

The SONY corporation, PDA " CLIE PEG-T600C " and " the CLIE PEG-T400 " which load Palm OS 4.1 and, memory stick camera module " PEGA-MSC1 " and memory stick GPS module " PEGA-MSG1 " consecutively sells from December 8th.

* December 8th sale

As for the PEG-T series the CLIE which adopts the design which past compared to settles. The PEG-T600C which loads the memory of the 16MB onto 65,536 color indicatory possible semi- transmitted type TFT color liquid crystal and the PEG-T400 which loads the memory of the 8MB onto the back light equipped monochrome liquid crystal are prepared.

Price is open price, but as for shop front expectation price the PEG-T600C approximately 40,000 Yen, the PEG-T400 the possibility approximately of 30,000 Yen. It is sold from December 8th. In addition, from November 19th preceding reservation is started with the direct sales sight Sony Style of the same company.

The CPU the Dragonball VZ (the 33mHz), 320ラ320 dot display, the ジョグダイヤル, the USB port and the infrared ray port (IrcDa 1.2), loads the memory stick slot and the like. As for power source lithium ion charge pond.

You adopt the aluminum material for the frame. As for substance size and weight, PEG-T600C 71.8ラ12.5ラ118mm (width x depth x height) / approximately 138g, PEG-T400 71.8ラ9.9ラ118mm (width x depth x height) / approximately 122g. The satin silver frame color of 2 kinds of royal blue is prepared in the PEG-T600C. In addition, only the satin silver is prepared in the PEG-T400, but the schedule where the frame of limited black is limited is sold (sale time and method is undecided).

Other than the software of Palm OS attachment, " the ATOK for CLIE " of the Japanese input software and animated picture viewer " gMovie " and so on is loaded sort until recently. In addition, the software " CLIE Remote Commander " which designates the CLIE anew as AV remote control, paint software " CLIE Paint ", Word/Excel file perusal / compilation software " Documents To Go 4.0 Standard Edition " and the alarm et cetera are designated as original sound, also robot " ラッテ " of the same company and can control " the マカロン " the " Sound Utility " et cetera is loaded with sound.

As for accessory USB cradle, AC adapter, AC cord/code and stylus et cetera. In addition, this skin make, the software cover of the ballistic nylon make belongs to the T400 in the T600C.

As another sale accessory, the MP3 can be played back " audio adapter PEGA-SA10 ", the cradle is not with the HotSync is possible, connects " USB Hot Sync cable PEGA-HS10 ", the portable telephone and the PHS " Mobile communication adapter PEGA-MA15 " and can utilize the CF communication card " communication adapter PEGA-CF60 " and so on is sold simultaneously (only the PEGA-CF60 December 15th sale).

Audio adapter
PEGA-SA10 Rear of the T600C CF communication card adapter " PEGA-CF60 ". You install on the rear of the CLIE

The same " GPS module as CLIE private " memory stick camera module PEGA-MSC1 " PEGA-MSG1 " is sold simultaneously. Price is open price, but as for shop front expectation price the PEGA-MSC1 approximately 15,000 Yen, the PEGA-MSG1 the possibility approximately of 20,000 Yen.

CLIE PEG-T600C and memory stick camera module
As for the PEGA-MSC1 the digital camera for the memory stick slot which loads the CMOS of 1/6 inch 10 ten thousand pixels. As for lens single focus of F2.8. Record picture prime corresponds to 160ラ120 pixel and 320ラ240 pixel. As for record type of picture Picture Gear Pocket format.

By the private software " Memory Stick Camera " of attachment, the preview and playback are possible with the liquid crystal of the CLIE. The lens turns to top and bottom direction, also your own taking have become possible. Also it is possible to apply the effect of 4 kinds of black and white / negative / sepia / ソラリゼ. Also the CLIE Paint and the PictureGear Pocket Ver.2.1 belong as a picture software.

As for the CLIE which corresponds the PEG-T600C/T400 and the PEG-N750C/N600C/N700C. However, as for the N700C upgrade of the OS becomes necessary.

As for size approximately 36ラ18ラ78mm (width x depth x height), as for weight approximately 12g. The private hard case belongs.

As for the PEGA-MSG1, the GPS receiver for the memory stick slot which cooperates with クリエ private map software " Navin'You Pocket Ver.2.0 ". It can utilize as simple walking Nabi. As for reception frequency 1575.42mHz, as for reception method with channel 16, as for sensitivity -130dBm below. Determination it renews $dm approximately 1 second. As for power source because it is supplied from the memory stick slot of the CLIE, continuous duty time in the PEG-T series approximately 50 minutes, is approximately 75 minutes in the PEG-N series.

As for the CLIE which corresponds the PEG-T600C/T400 and the PEG-N750C/N600C/N700C.

As for size approximately 44ラ20ラ132mm (width x depth x height), you fold, the time approximately 44ラ22ラ98mm (width x depth x height), as for weight approximately 45g. The private hard case belongs.

RE: T600c via Babelfish
empire @ 4/13/2002 11:33:51 PM #
Is it possible to purchase a pega-msg1 gps from sony, if so who do I call???


Ed @ 11/19/2001 11:23:56 AM #
I just want to let you know that I'm actually writing this from vacation. I'm doing the best I can gathering info on this new device but I'm kind of limited by being at relative's house for Thanksgiving. Thank goodness they at least have DSL. Anyway, thanks to everyone who has chipped in with info; it has been a big help.

News Editor
RE: Thanks!
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:32:45 AM #
Ed on vacation?! Let me sit down...

Sony is nuts

jeremyf @ 11/19/2001 11:54:56 AM #
RE: Sony is nuts
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 11:59:50 AM #
At the very least, they are the most aggressive Palm licensee!

RE: Sony is nuts
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:32:27 PM #
And Palm and Handspring and Handera are retards

RE: Sony is nuts
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:09:38 PM #
Now, Now. No need to call names. To each their own...

RE: Sony is nuts
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:26:00 PM #
Sony is taking the design lead in the Palm Os handheld market. Handspring is taking its time to release a new color handheld. Maybe Handspring and Palm should merge! You sure can't compete with the sony design team.
Iona Prism.


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:58:47 AM #
I assume this model will do video the same as the n760c, but i was just wondering how well the CLIE's do with video compared to PPC. What kind of frame rate can you get?

RE: Video
sub_tex @ 11/19/2001 12:29:17 PM #
not very good.

the big problem with video on the palm rightnow is there is no standard. every movie playing app for palm uses it's own compression.

I had tried to gather some feedback on video encoding tests i had done a few months ago, but no one really responded.

basically, you can keep small clips of stuff, in pixelated form. since EVERY movie app for palm OS sucks.

They need an mpeg4 standard in there. like pocket divx or wmv. anything would be better than the crap that's out there now.

had 3 mmeg wmv movie with audio, at 160x120 that looked fine on the desktop (albeit small as all heck), and using all the movie apps out there the file size grew (or the app limited the file size. how stupid is that!).

Some apps even force you to use at highest 15fps.

it's a joke.

RE: Video
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 7:43:38 PM #
There's a great video app, 'Palmoovid' that plays back AVI's on the palm. With the registered version one can transfer an .avi file to the DCIM folder on an SD card, via an SD card reader and play it on the palm. Ofcourse file can be > than available ram on the palm. No conversion to a palm format, it plays the same .avi file on the desktop on the palm. Must resize to 160x160 or less. Full gorgeous 16 bit color on the 505.

RE: Video
mikecane @ 11/20/2001 8:48:38 AM #
What's the frame rate? And it's still silent video, isn't it?

RE: Video
Altema @ 11/20/2001 12:57:35 PM #
I must have missed your post about tests, I ran quite a few before deciding which app to purchase. My only problem with Palmmovid (sic) is that you need to resize to avi file to avoid wasting space. FireViewer had no sound and gmovie was a little too grainy for me. I have gotten frame rates up to 24fps with tealmovie on silent clips, and 15fps with sound at the maximum 3000 bytes per frame. That's 45k per second for the video alone, being streamed directly from an external card.

If you are using a Palm encoder, do NOT resize the movie in windows before encoding. All of the above mentioned apps will produce better looking output if you let the Palm app do the resizing, as they are designed to do the rendering specifically for the Palm. I've done it both ways, and it looks terrible if you use a windows editor to drop the size to 160x120. The longest video I have used is several minutes long, but tealmovie does not seem to care about file size. I don't know why your Palm files have turned out larger than the windows avi files, the opposite has been true with mine. I'm currently installing a USB video converter that will accept camcorder and video feeds... I have to see how that works out, even though I can only fit about 30 minutes of video on my current card.

RE: Video
sub_tex @ 11/21/2001 12:34:52 AM #

i'll definitely have to grab tha program and do some new tests. I'll put up a new topic in the forums in a week or so with the results.

thanks for the info. (and the tip about not resizing before conversion).

RE: Video
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 9:02:26 PM #
I've been playing with my new T615C. Seems to work reasonably well with the packaged gMovie and PictureGear. I can't get soudn to work on it and the documentation is very unclear. Is it supported with the enhanced sound?

TealMovie works with sound though, but I don't think it sounds any better than it would on another Palm.


What about Stowaway support???

jebahr @ 11/19/2001 12:04:57 PM #
These new thin models from Sony look great, and I am tempted to replace my Visor Deluxe with one of them. The main question I have about them though is the connector different enough from the rest of the Clies to not be able to use the Stowaway Keyboard that is currently out? If so has anyone heard when a Stowaway for the T series will be out?

RE: What about Stowaway support???
mikecane @ 11/19/2001 12:11:06 PM #
Yes, you will need a Stowaway specifically for the T series of CLIEs. Different connectors totally than the S and N series.

610 Price

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:08:04 PM #
So if this is around $325, when does the price of the 610 fall through the floor? And where can I get one for $200?

RE: 610 Price
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:21:12 PM #
I'm thinking the same thing!

RE: 610 Price
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:13:26 PM #
The article does not state that Sony will be releasing a USA version, maybe it will never make it out of Japan.

RE: 610 Price
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:08:08 PM #
This is exactly the point. A bunch of these tech nerds assume that because it's released in Japan, it'll make it to the US. Folks, there are THOUSANDS of products released by Sony and others IN JAPAN ONLY. Remember, there was a color S300, and it never made it out because it sucked! This unit could very well suffer the same fate! I might be wrong, but so might you...

Japan is the world's testing ground for high-tech products. More stuff is born and dies there than you might ever SEE in your lifetime. Sure, this looks really interesting, but for now, it's just that.

What's more, you've got to consider that Sony KNOWS the 320, 610, and 760 are doing well in the U.S. They won't undercut those models yet by releasing this one. So don't lick those chops too much; you're getting drool all over yourself.

RE: 610 Price
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 6:01:25 PM #
I'm pretty sure there were rumors before about how the 750 (760) would never make it over to the US, but it did. We can all hope... you win some, you lose some.

RE: 610 Price
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 8:40:09 AM #
Yes, but most of these nerds act like it's a done-deal. They need to get outside and experience some fresh air.


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:17:36 PM #
Listen y'all..
it is imperitive that sony got this going b/c with renewed vigor of PPC camp w/ its PPC 2002 if the palm camp can't put together a few "wow" products MS will deffinately start gaining ground. now if palm & handspring can follow w/ comparable harware, palm os will be able to maintain its market dominance otherwise...
[also let me point out that i like the palm os & don't see a compelling reason to switch to PPC, but at the same time, it does seem like palm & handspring have been kinda stagnent. [though handspring has shown some initiative [treo]]

..just my thoughts, flame at will.

:: dk ::

RE: Darwin
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:13:24 PM #
While I agree that Palm and Handspring need to "get moving," I disagree with your PPC 2002 assertion.

Remember, people who frequent these sites represent around 5% of the PDA market. The average user doesn't care about the enhancements of PPC 2002. And in a receding economy, people are less willing to drop $600+ on a new unit, especially if their's works OK right now, and if they've already got massive credit card debt.

I'll be happy to see OS 5, but I'll be happier (and not the least bit surprised) when Microsoft loses big $$$ on the PPC 2002 initiative.

what's next? Sony PPC?

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:57:14 PM #
In fact, there is also an old rumor that Sony will have PPC 2002 product next year!!! So, what would happen to other PDA manufacturers?

RE: what's next? Sony PPC?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:31:23 PM #
Sorry, although Sony has applauded Windows XP since Sony laptops run it, they are really out to compete with microsoft. They have teamed up with AOL-Time-Warner and Nokia to actually help them.

RE: what's next? Sony PPC?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:04:47 PM #
no PPC they didn't liscence CE, But there's apretty big chance you'll see a Sony/erricson branded Sybian OS device.


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 12:59:13 PM #
Just beautiful.

Sony's team continues to make other Palm-hardware designers look like interns. I think it's SOOO funny that this came on the same day as the 'Patriot-blue' thing. What a joke.

Palm is the runt of the whole litter!

RE: Beautiful
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 3:06:08 PM #
What a big JOKE......Patriot Blue...? Yes, we got it ...SONY...

Japan's Sonystyle site

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 1:08:01 PM #


huggy @ 11/19/2001 1:15:10 PM #
Just the day I just bought my N770C!

though i don't expect this T600 in Spain at least 'till september or so... and hell, I hope we'll get OS5 by then!

-------------- huggy ---------------
*-- I accept language corrections --*

Palm SUE SONY !!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:01:20 PM #
*they copied your "Patriot Blue" idea !!!!
*that is just wrong, it took Palm 2 Months to come up with that idea, now in less than 24 hours Sony copies it !!!!!

*that's a joke don't flame ~~

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:05:42 PM #
well, sony calls their color 'royal blue' hehe

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:18:18 PM #
well, Pal should sue in different reasons: 1. their creative team is better than Palm's; 2. not respecting the survival right of Palm's; 3. copying the thin design of m505; etc., etc., etc......

therefore, Palm should ask the supreme court to impose the restrictive order by banning any creative Palm device deveoped by foreign manufacturers... so Palm can survive!!!

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 2:21:36 PM #
Oh yeah? Wait til they see Yankee Doodle Fuchsia!

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 3:46:03 PM #
4. Always designs and releases better PDAs than Palm.

(Now what?
SONY = super slim, built-in speaker, vibrate, 65536, 320x320.
Palm = a 1.5 years old model with new painting outside on the case? Doesn't help too much.)

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
Scott @ 11/19/2001 4:11:11 PM #
Might it possibly occur to anyone that Palm might actually be [b]pleased[/b] about this new product from Sony? Sony is a licensee of Palm. It is in Palm's best interest for Sony to sell a lot of their devices. And, it creates yet another compelling option for someone who might otherwise choose to switch to the PPC OS.

Now, obviously, this device will take a nice chunk out of Palm's m505 sales. But, I'd imagine, this will be mainly with us geeks. If I was in charge of purchasing several devices for a team within my company, I'd probably choose a device from Palm or Handspring (or Handera) due to the improved support that I would get. Palm would also get the edge in that they own the OS.


RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:54:40 PM #
as to the first point, it is possible that Palm "might be" happy for this new device. Just wait and see what happen (next quarter financial report)...

but what I am not sure is: does Palm/HS/Handera really focus more on corporate customers? As for now, their "claimed" corporate focus just by saying it on paper/ad. Regrading how to intergrate PDA to corporate network, that's different story. In fact, if Palm does separate itself into 2 divisions (software and hardware), I have hard time to image that Palm software division would decline to offer service to those using other Palm-OS PDA....

my 2 cents...

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 6:28:47 PM #
Why would Palm sue Sony, they are licensee's. Sony is actually HELPING Palm, by selling the Clie with the Palm OS.

RE: Palm SUE SONY !!!!
mikecane @ 11/20/2001 8:50:05 AM #
Ah, what a bunch of historians.

FYI, Sony used blue in their *first* color PDA, the N500, which was never released in the US because it had such a lousy screen (believe me, all the people who howled over the m505 screen would have screamed even louder over the Sony screen).

Go see:


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 3:47:32 PM #
Does anybody know if there will be a wireless modem available. Based on my conversations with a rep. from Omnisky, and their lack of support for new products, I wonder if they are going under. I love the product but now that I'm upgrading my PDA (Palm Vx) they are making it difficult to continue as an Omnisky subscriber. Any thoughts or ideas would be helpful. New unit must be color and have wireless capabilities. Thanks.


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:03:34 PM #
I'm going to start saving now! This is my dream machine (ok, virtual grafitti would've been nice)! 16MB, high-res color, jog dial, thin, cheap (compared to m505 or N610), good speaker, etc. The only possible downside I can think of is the lousy scroll button.

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:28:50 PM #
The scroll button on the Sony couldn't be any worse than the scroll button the m505 . . . oh wait . . . there isn't one on the m505. Maybe you mean that the Sony is better off without one at all?

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:46:58 PM #
I think he meant the page-up/down button on the front, between the addressbook and to-do buttons.

Now just the FASTER proccesor
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 9:19:47 PM #
Gosh, now all i want them to do is include a faster chip! then we would really see some awsome GAMES!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 8:43:04 AM #
Actually, the page-up/down buttons are also referred to as "Scroll Buttons." What the "gratuitous Pal critic" is talking about is known as a "Jog Dial."

If you're going to gripe as a result of semantics, at least LEARN the semantics!

Don't forget

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:21:39 PM #
The Palm m505 is still the thinnest color handheld in the world. The T600 is much thicker.

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 4:58:16 PM #
you mean the Patriot Blue edition or the American Red edition thinner than son't T600 ?

COZ according to spec T600 is .49 inch thick, and the Patriot Blue one is .5 inch think ....

maybe the American Red one is thinner, I am not sure, maybe you wanna check

RE: Don't forget
PyroTom @ 11/19/2001 5:09:36 PM #
I just measured an m505 with a micrometer, the majority of the casing on all sides was 0.495 inches. (Not including the cover) Pretty much the same as the T600 specs.

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:29:10 PM #
0.495 > 0.49

When will people accept the fact that Sony now has the thinnest devices?!

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:45:35 PM #
Does it really matter anyway? Are any of you going to notice the difference of 1/100 of an inch?

I remember !
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:53:13 PM #
no one really cared until someone said

"The Palm m505 is still the thinnest color handheld in the world. The T600 is much thicker."

turns out Palm's m505 is .005 inch thicker, which makes him look like an @$$ ....

1/100 of an inch makes BIG different
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 6:10:36 PM #
SONY is 0.005 inch thinner, and the resolution is 320x320, which SONY had it since April 2001, and Palm is NOT YET ABLE TO apply on any of their advices.

What will you Palm fans say about this??

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 6:26:54 PM #
Do it's not 4.925 inch to be exact.

Also, look at
They market T400 as the thinnest handheld but not T600 as the thinnest color handheld.

RE: Don't forget
dhchung @ 11/20/2001 3:37:23 AM #
If you can read Japanese from the website.
You are right, they are saying T600C is the thinnest in the market. It's as thin as m505. Sony just has a brighter screen, 320x320, remote control, slight alarm, enhanced speaker and 8mb more ram.
Palm fans, Need I go on??

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 6:08:27 AM #
Admit it , Palm geeks, Palm is a looser now, they just cannot make the things right.

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 8:46:10 AM #
I can't believe a bunch of PalmOS geeks are getting into heated debates over 5 THOUSANDTHS of an inch? Can you SEE the difference? No. It's amazing, because Sony and Palm are supposed to be "on the same team" in this thing. You guys are so caught up in your tech spec merry-go-round that you're losing sight of the real enemy - POCKET PC! Have you seen some of the drivel PPC users promote? "iPaq is just as thin as m505/Sony Clie." Get real!

Palm and Sony BOTH must go after the AVERAGE USER, not just those of us who read PIC. That average user doesn't care much about 320x320 vs 160x160. They care that the interface is easy, which it is on BOTH the m505 and the Clie. They DON'T own a micrometer and DON'T care about .005". They just want "thin," which Palm/Sony have FAR superior to the iPaq.

But what you want, but realize that an m505 will beam very easily to a Clie, and vice versa. GET OVER YOUR TECH SPECS!!!

RE: Don't forget
mikecane @ 11/20/2001 8:57:58 AM #
Why should you be surprised?! They had plenty to say about nothing elsewhere too: the addition of red and blue colors to the m505 line.

Can you say schoolkids on Thanksgiving vacation?

RE: Don't forget
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 11:15:28 AM #
Or worse yet, adults who act like schoolkids on Thanksgiving vacation when they're SUPPOSED to be working...

how to buy one???

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:02:21 PM #
OK, I am committed to this little beauty (even with Japanese OS - someone will find a way to upgrade it later) --- can someone tell me how to purchase one and ship it to US? Any recommendation?

RE: how to buy one???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 5:07:54 PM #

you can try this, if you are in Hong Kong it's $370 US
if outside of Hong Kong it's $408 US

I am not sure if you wanna do that coz that thing is runnign japanese OS, unless you are japanese, chinese or you know japanese, it's highly recommended you should wait for the english version.


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 7:13:51 PM #
I assume that the TFT screen is reflective, like the 760? Did anyone find the specifics on the screen??

RE: Screen
dhchung @ 11/19/2001 9:10:38 PM #
I guess so. I never see any newer technology of making the LCD on PDA. not on Palm, not on PPC

RE: Screen
srs112233 @ 11/19/2001 10:15:58 PM #
Just wait for a year or so when sony gets the new OLED screens! Then we'll have pretty good graphics and battery life!

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:24:24 PM #
The LCD on T600 seems to be transflective TFT with BACKLIGHT, while the one on NXXX is reflective with FRONTLIGHT.
Check out this :

and this :

It seems the author initially worried about the spec but was later quite satisfied by the actual unit.

He seems to rate the screen 85 (out of 100?). We need someone who really understand Japanese to clear this out.

RE: Screen
ahecht @ 11/20/2001 12:06:08 AM #
In those pics, it looks reflective. Just look at how bright it is compared to the N700 when off, a transflective screen would be black.


I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 10:28:35 PM #
This is ridiculous!!! We here in the U.S. invented the PalmPilot and damn it, the Japanese are the first ones that get the thin, brilliant hi-res color Palm device! Meanwhile, the company that started the whole thing is pushing 160x160 and dull color along with American Cranberry and Patriot Blue Case Colors! Where the hell is my Palm m525??? MR. MACE!!?? Can you hear me??? Where the hell is my m525!!??!!! Damn it I want my m525 now!!! No way the Japanese should have all the good stuff first!!!

Rejection, then acceptance
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:12:26 PM #
Face it, the Japanese have a lot history of making things smaller than previously thought possible. Look at.....CARS!! How about walkmans' now even mp3s!!!

They hold the record for subnotebooks, which is the Sharp Mebius series, too.

Part of the reason I think is because Japanese people are smaller built....they have a hard time holding big devices. Therefore it comes as no surprise to me that the first and only subnotebook from Apple was designed and made in Japan..... I have no problem with that, do you still?

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/19/2001 11:57:51 PM #
Come on! Japanese did a good job on hardware design! There are great!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 12:09:45 AM #
I've noticed the Japanese never seem invent anything. They make improvements to other people's inventions. I think it is because their culture discourages individuality.

dhchung @ 11/20/2001 3:43:02 AM #
I argee, their words are chinese words, what they are speaking is actually from chinese and english.
My english not good so I'll keep it short here. Japanese took many of the chinese inventions and improved on them. Well, that doesn't mean that japanese are stealing things and never discover something new. I think that means we still have many rooms for improvement.

mikecane @ 11/20/2001 9:27:39 AM #
And we Americans are speaking words that originated in Latin, Greek, French, Spanish, and Italian (among others). What's the point?

RE: OUTRAGEOUS!!! - not really
popko @ 11/20/2001 10:50:20 AM #
Yeah, I agree. I'd say that at least 30% of Japanese written language is the same as Chinese and they do have a lot of "imported words" from other western languages. But if you look at it from another point of view, they seems to have the good stuff from both the west and the east.

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/29/2001 6:00:28 AM #
Imagine a beer pouring machine or a electronic toilet seat that washes your a**e for you. These things (and many others) are available in Japan because consumers are prepared to buy them and the suppliers have learnt how to manage their production & stock cycles without going bust. As someone else said not all of these things make it out of Japan but the one's that will sell do.

I am delighted that Sony are making better Palms. With their manufacturing and marketing skills there's a chance that we don't all have to give yet more money to Uncle Bill because PPC is the only game in town.

Palm really made this market and the V was fantastic product in it's day and is still good enough for me (but not for much longer I suspect). It's a pity that the board/management have not been able to get their act together recently but that's life, there's no rule which says US companies must be better than those from other countries. The new CEO should spin off/sell the hardware unit, keep the software division and focus them on the new OS.

As a consumer I want good products at low prices wherever they come from. The Japanese have done a great job of delivering them in all sorts of markets, good luck to them.

ZDNet USA article

ahecht @ 11/20/2001 12:10:01 AM #
ZDnet's USA site has an article at

Funny, they mention PIC as a source but not their own Japanese site.

RE: ZDNet USA article
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 12:18:35 AM #
They also misquoted the number of memory as being 8 MB, rather than the 16 listed everywhere else.

This guy takes apart his T415 !!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 1:28:09 AM #
The article is written in Chinese, but there's some nice pictures!!

dead link??
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 11:53:12 AM #
deak link!

RE: This guy takes apart his T415 !!!!!
popko @ 11/20/2001 6:15:32 PM #
heh heh ... it's good when you can read more then just English :)

Any way, try this link

I love that Technology Jacket!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 9:42:21 AM #

New m525 coming???

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 9:44:18 AM #
Question for all: Do you think a new m525 is coming before OS5? Here's why I think we might get one soon - maybe this is wishful thinking - but - recent price drop of m505 to $399. ALSO - so many new Color Hi-Res clie's, ALSO - 16MB RAM from Handspring. I would think that Palm could use the same Clie Sony Screen and use the 16MB OS Technology for Handspring and make an m525 as a stop gap for early 2002 before the OS5/ARM/XScale 2003 Model. What do you all think? Is the m505 it until OS5??? Also, Palm would be very sure to keep this m525 super quiet due to the last m505 "too early" introduction debacle. Am I only dreaming?

RE: New m525 coming???
mikecane @ 11/20/2001 10:04:37 AM #
I hope you're only dreaming, because I'd see a Palm 320x320 unit as a nightmare. They really need 240x320 with Soft Graffiti.

But I do otherwise agree there will probably be an m525 before OS5. But if they are counting on Bluetooth inside of it, all bets are off.

If they really want to add another model, there is room for a *slotless* m505. This would appeal to people who are still buying slotless Vs and Vxs.

ATTN: Mike "240x320 with Soft Graffiti" Cane
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 4:07:43 AM #
Your degree of obsession with "240x320 with Soft Graffiti" is obviously pathologic. Get help.

RE: New m525 coming???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 8:10:36 AM #
Amen, Brother!!!!

RE: New m525 coming???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 9:26:29 AM #
I agree. Its one of those 330 users that are upset about not having color and not having a unit that is small enounh to fit in a shirt pocket yet.

I don't understand you people....
sub_tex @ 11/21/2001 10:54:05 AM #
"Its one of those 330 users that are upset about not having color and not having a unit that is small enounh to fit in a shirt pocket yet."

Funny how this seems to be the only place where i can find people who are actually NOT excited about getting larger screen space in a device.

When Handera released the 330 people actually complained about how old apps had to run in a small window. The small window is the problem. It's what we have now.

It's like keeping a 15" monitor when you could be getting a 21".

RE: New m525 coming???
mikecane @ 11/21/2001 11:01:09 AM #
Come on. Why should this surprise you? These are adolescent weenies who get their PDAs from Mommy and Daddy. They don't understand grown up needs.

Get help, Mike.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/24/2001 4:23:35 PM #
Have you done your Psych rotation yet? It'll be like looking into a mirror, Mikey...

RE: New m525 coming???
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/20/2001 10:49:32 PM #
The hole in Palms lineup is not at the top. It is in the middle. They will produce a model 325. It will look like the 125 but have a color screen. I would love to see it with a 320 by 320 or QVGA color screen. I am not so sure Palm has the brains to do it. Sony will eat their lunch in the market either way.

Calm down !

Stefan @ 11/20/2001 4:36:43 PM #
Of course the new Cli sounds fantastic, but up to now no one of us had it in his own hands. There are only a lot of translated articles and some photos, but noone knows if weエll ever see it outside asia.

Iエld like to see it in the US or Europe to test it before Iエll decide whether itエs really such a fantastic product.

I know why Sony can make such a good PDA!

dhchung @ 11/20/2001 4:43:28 PM #
So what's so special about T600C? There's no big deal of their enhanced speaker and remote control, they are just parts that you can buy from radio shack.
and I don't think anyone will be surprised of it's 16mb ram because I can upgrade my N610c to 16mb ram also.

the most surprising thing is that they can put such a high resoltion display in a small size.
Why can palm do that? Remember, sony's hardware developing department is at least 100x bigger than palm. also Sony has a long history of making LCD. As I remember, sony managed to fit a 1024x768 LCD on a 10.4' notebook, and they can put a 15xx x 12xx LCD on a 15' notebook. they's why their LCD technology can be improved that fast and now exceed palm.
hope my english is alright

RE: guess you never hold a T415 in your hand
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 6:06:14 PM #
>There's no big deal of their enhanced speaker and remote control,

No big deal? yeah yeah, I guess you never hold any PEG-T series Clie in your hand.

I have T415 in my hand and I can tell you that the built-in speaker is so wonderful that you won't even imagine that this music comes out from any Palm OS PDA.

Also the RMC lets me playy around at my home, friend's home and restaurants.

You didn't mention the vibrate alarm, did you?

RE: I know why Sony can make such a good PDA!
dhchung @ 11/21/2001 12:21:58 AM #
alright, maybe I was not clear.
what I mean is speaker, rmc are not suprising at all. (well, vibra and alarm is not worth to mention as they are very small originally and we have this technology on the cell phone market 5 years ago. If you take apart your 8290 or some even bigger cell phone like 3390, you'll find the vibra module is nothing more than a small motor with a piece of metal.)

most PPC has enhanced great speakers long time ago. well you can say that PPC is much large. But what sony do is just to make the speaker a little small. You are right, I never try T415 before, but I still would think that speaker size is relative to quality. If you have a thin speaker, it'll be worse that a bigger one. I don't think there's a technology breakthrough on that.
RMC can be easily done by changing the infrared's LED. no one does it before because they think it's a waste of battery.

So still, the main change is the LCD.

Please correct me if I am wrong

RE: I know why Sony can make such a good PDA!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/21/2001 12:24:41 PM #
Just FYI, Palm is actually also using SONY's LCD....:)

Is Sony the only manufacturer listening to their customers??

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 6:59:09 PM #
Good one sony,
I've been waiting since the news release yesterday to read other people's posts before i post mine.
For those that might be wondering if this is will be coming to the US, speculate no further, it is/will be coming but maybe not in time for Christmas.
Screw this, when this comes out, i'm getting the blue one! this is one sweet ass unit! i'm looking at my 505 and if this is as thin as the 505 with better resolution, then i'm snatching one as soon as it arrives. Sony, you might want to look into managing the screen real estate much better. I mean, look at all the space wasted between the hardware buttons and the top of the graffitti areas!!
Up until now, i never really had much use for a pda that plays music, but heck, if it can, all the better. I have my down times as well and a little music wouldn't hurt.
The rc feature is pretty neat, and the bundled 16megs is niice! I read someone's post which said "i can always upgrade my 8meg clie to 16meg", well go and pay $140 then, that's your headache! its much nicer when it comes from the manufacturer.
I can understand the different pda users arguing about which one is better, but on the long run, this is much better for everyone involved. A year ago, i had my trusty Vx and it was THE ONE to me, now my 505 screen is starting to annoy me when i can foresee a world with 320x320 rez. Dang, i wish they'd just standardize the dang thing!
This is honestly going to make Palm and Handspring sit up, fast! with all these units set to drop any time soon, i don't see the Prism doing that well if Handspring doesn't do anything or the m505 being an alternative much longer unless Palm comes out with something better.
Which ever way, its all good for us the customers, afterall its our money and we can choose which unit to buy.

RE: Is Sony the only manufacturer listening to their customers??
mikecane @ 11/21/2001 10:45:17 AM #
Believe me, Sony does *not* listen when you ask for support...

S stands for speed!

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/20/2001 10:29:02 PM #
The S in sony stands for very innovative speed. It may be a little to fast, in saying: They pretty much just finished releasing a splurge of N-series handhelds. Now, they are shooting another series right at us (not yet, but assuming soon). It may be to fast, but 'darn' is Sony good.

RE: S stands for speed!
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/24/2001 5:33:08 AM #
I always thought SONY stood for Soon Only Not Yet....

Insider joke... ;)


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/8/2002 2:56:30 PM #
I bought the PEG-T600C in Japan over the 2001 / 2002 New Years Holiday. Being a Japanese Translator I needed the Japanese Palm OS interface. It is great, the color looks great, and it is very definitely compact.

The price at Yamada Denki in Nagoya was 37,900 yen.

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/9/2002 8:09:10 PM #
I've got a very nice X-mas gift it was a PEG-T600C I like it very much but it is in Japaniese and I don't understatd Japaniese can any one help me please make it to English. The sony people would not help me so can someone help me please thank you.. My E-Mail is

T615 available in Singapore

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/11/2002 4:02:31 AM #
Sony is offering the T615 for $698 SGD (inc tax).

I hope the 4MB ROM is the only h/w difference between the Japanese model. Clear type, 320x320 and jog dial. Joy.



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