Comments on: Sony Clie PEG-T415 Shipping

What do you mean?

I think he means the T6x0 is on the way, so T415 is NOT the latest PDA in CLIE family anymore.

funny that the word "too bad" has so many meaning to you guys ..

what's "too bad" is before the STATE OF THE ART HANDSPRING COMMUNCATION device Tero PDA is even released, it already can't use any SPRINGBOARD modules... that is so sad ... I feel sorry for all those people who invested in/bought springboard modules, because handspring don't even support their own technology in THEIR OWN LATEST state of the art HANDSPRING device.

If Handspring can find the right way to go, let it be.
If Springboard is not good for their PDA, let handspring move on, it's a good thing.

And what OS does the treo run on? PALM OS the same as the Visor line. How can you compare the treo to the walkman?

So Spring Board is 5

It's obvious they are just attempting to provoke a reaction. Just ignore them and don't respond to any more of his (its) TROLL posts.

"And about the
"Visor = sedan
Treo = sports car"
comparison .... different cars have different engines and different outlook Design. But all of them have windows, Doors, Wheels, steering wheels. I see Expansion on Palm device as important as doors wheels and window."

Nah, expansion is all about the trunk space. In that example, you have more storage in the sedan. (Of course, with SD cards, PDA's are not like cars cause smaller CAN be big.)
;)

Are you sure the camera works with the S320? The sony site

http://www.sonystyle.com/micros/clie/accessories/index.html

and sales people say otherwise.

Maybe I'll check the Urban Legends Website under "PDA Hoaxes". ;) I bet the picture of Waldo (The Tourist Guy) was taken with a S320 with the digital camera!

I have and only have one thing to say about this thing, SWEET!!! At Best Buy there is even an as yet unadvertised special, the printer spits out a rebate for a 32MB Memory Stick in the mail. Price for unit is $280 on sale for the rest of the day.

I just double checked, it seems that all the Sony's have the free 32MB rebate.

I got mine at BestBuy. I got the MS rebate but I didn't get the case. Is the free case offer only available at certain retailers?

Actually, the backlight in the m500 is very VERY close to white when you put the hack to invert the backlight. Its very bright. I wont judge and flame till I personally know what i am talking about.
Http://pdan.has.it : PDANature - hourly refreshed pda news, discussions, reviews, and what not!

The kind of "professionals" like businesspeople, physicicians, lawyers, etc. who wouldn't be caught dead carry a big, geeky, flashy PDA. The kind of professional you probably aren't, "skoty".

A small, thin, unobtrusive PDA is what these individuals want. That's why Palm was able to sell the V and Vx for such an inflated price for so long.

You got me, I'm not a doctor or lawyer, I'm a professional programmer. My point is that the "thin feature" is only appealing to those who won't/can't see past it to the other "technical" featurs of the device. My Visor Platinum still offers more options for expansions/add-ons than any other device out there. It's not as thin as the m50x or the T series, but it's thin enough for me. I'm really not interested in spending extra money so that it can lose a half inch in thickness. As you point out though, there are alot of other professional types out there that would.

No, I just wear Levis, and carry it in my front pocket. If I were to use a case with it, it wouldn't fit in my pocket. If I wear slacks, it fits even better in my front pocket. I broke the screen one time when I was moving funiture (I shouldn't have been carrying it then anyway), but my Staples insurance enabled me to trade it up for a new one with no hassle. Staples is great. I didn't even buy it there (I bought it on Amazon) and they still would sell me an insurance policy on it.

Anyway, I'm sitting in my chair right now, and I don't even notice my Visor Platinum in my front pocket.

Nah. I haven't seen too many Sony prodcuts that didn't work.

I think what he/she means (and I agree), is that the screens on the 415 and m505 both don't live up to the hype or expectations of most.

I bought a 415 several days ago. I returned it 72 hours later. The screen is a bit small and does not do well in low light when compaired with my old Vx.

The high-res is kind of useless w/o color.

I'm either going to get the 610 or wait for the T6xx.

I realise all of this is based on opinions.. But, what is your logic when you say the T415 beats out the m500 and the Handera??

If comparing just the T415 and the m500 you have a pretty good match and it would all boil down to taste.

But throwing the Handera in is another matter.

If your looking at size alone, then the 415 has it, but if you look at features and expandability, the Handera beats the both of them over the head.

Is all about taste and what features you want in a handheld.

You know, it's a real shame that Handera can't makret their products like Palm and Sony can. If the H330 was sitting side by side in retail stores, I'm sure it would be a much more widely used PDA.

Damn, handera is so UGLY !

The Handera 330 is now at CompUSA.

HandEra's problems are much bigger than incompetent marketing. They are out of touch with what people want. When I say "people" I mean the typical customer - not the three HandEra geeks that post to this site 50 times a day trying to defend HandEra.

At one time, HandEra (TRG) made the most advanced PDA around - the TRGpro. It's still a great machine for anyone that doesn't mind a Palm III form factor. The TRGpro was amazing back when only Palm and Handspring were the only real alternatives. With Palm releasing new designs almost as slowly as HandEra (just two PDAs in around two and a half years) and no advances in the displays in four years, they were able to get away with their "we don't need to advertise - we only care about the vertical market" attitude.

2001 is a different world, thanks to Palm's mistake in licensing the OS to a certain Japanese manufacturing giant. Sony is shrinking their PDAs, adding the color displays people really want, stylish design and interesting gimmicks like MP3 players that will bring non-traditional PDA users into the fold. Meanwhile, HandEra released their hideous (not just my opinion) 330 using the big, old Palm III form factor and a non-standard screen that prevanted several apps from running in full screen mode.

HandEra can argue from now until the cows come home about how superior and functional their design choices were. In many ways, the HandEra 330 is the best-engineered PDA around. But it doesn't matter - this is the real world, not engineering school. Show 100 people a Clie N760C and HandEra 330 side by side and guess how many choose the HandEra? Maybe two techno-geeks. The same ones reading this site. Those two geeks aren't enough to sustain HandEra, especially now that they have decided to change their company's focus to just selling PDAs.

What HandEra should have done is jump on Sony's bandwagon rather than arrogantly think they could actually beat Sony. Had they just licensed the color screen from the N710C and designed a better-looking PDA, HandEra would have had a chance. They are apparently now trying to correct this mistake, but it's probably too late for them.

Palm also used to think they could compete with Sony and look what has happened to them in the past six months. Will *anyone* be buying Palm branded PDAs in 12 months? I seriously doubt it. Palm depends on Sony for its crappy color displays (believe it or not, Sony makes the screen for the m505). Why should Sony provide Palm with good displays when they can just take over the market completely in the coming year and then buy the PalmOS company at a bargain basement price?

Palm needs to get out of the hardware business now. Hopefully, Sony's OS licensing deal expires soon and Palm can renegotiate a better deal for perhaps $25 - $30 per license. Otherwise expect Palm, Handspring (whether or nor they merger) and HandEra to be either bankrupt or insignificant players in the next year.

Deepnose

Good analysis,Deepnose...you are totally right !

DeepNose... Wow, your comments are so reflective, engaging, and original, please, please post more of you Market Genius so that Palm and Handera may survive Sony's onslaught. NOT!

Hmmm... DeepNose MUST be DEEP UP SONY'S A**!!! Oh please, what gives your biased "expert" statements and opinions credibility and depth. Don't give us this "From someone who knows" b*llsh*t, we're far more intelligent than that. You're not a market insider, nor are you in the PDA business (okay, start making up some BS credentials... Sure, we've heard it all before), just a size-challenged PDA owner who wants to convince everyone that innovation other than Sony's is paltry and useless.

Yes, Handera has committed many transgressions against the angry Sony god, and it should correct it's mistakes.

Yes, yes, Handera should've abandoned the virtual collapsible graffiti, 320x240 resolution, and instead used Sony's screen, therefore, we can forever stay in that little 3 by 3 square making fonts almost unreadable. DAMN to all those who try to move beyond from the square to a (gasp!) LARGER rectangle. Oh dear, curses to Handera for attempting such a feat. Oh, and damn them too for making TWO, I hear TWO expansion slots... Industry standard slots even! And how about those Handera techno-geeks, may the wrath of Sony shower them with bad tech-support so they can't get to use the number of CF Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and wireless modems available, as well as the other Palm III compatible accessories. I also can't believe they would include a REAL speaker, a voice recorder, AND a jog wheel/backbutton. How dare they!

I know it's hard to appreciate any other PDA than your own, since you've worked so hard mowing lawns for the past 6 months to save up and buy a Sony Clie. I commend and honor you on that one, we're ALL proud of you. And listen, don't stay up too late thinking of a great response to this message, since your schoolbus leaves early in the morning and you don't want to miss homeroom.

Making DeepNose Run....

Please feel free to respond further.

It's sad how some people manage to deny the obvious. If others here agree, let the previous posters know - they may eventually see the light. (They should also bookmark this thread and come back here in two months so they can eat crow.)

> Also, would you really want Sony to be the only maker of PDA's anyway? I like having many choices when buying gadgets and I know most people out there also do.

I also like having choices and support smaller manufacturers whenever possible. In fact, I've used a TRGpro for two years and don't plan on changing until it stops working. For me, function is more important than form. But the writing's on the wall. Don't try to shoot the messenger.

> Lasly. You can jump off the "looks" and "style" horse whenever your ass ges soar. PDA's are meant to be useful tools to their users, how cute and hunky dorie they look should be last on the list.

??? While you might think PDAs should primarily be functional, the real world says otherwise. Palm sold millions of V and Vx models based on style. In fact, besides the Palm name, style is probably the only thing the m500 and m505 have going for them right now.

> I know it's hard to appreciate any other PDA than your own, since you've worked so hard mowing lawns for the past 6 months to save up and buy a Sony Clie...

It's imbeciles like you that make the comments section of this site so amusing. I would rather spend six months mowing lawns than work one day with a pompous arse like you. Please show us some more of your wit. What other jobs are beneath you, Sire?
i use a TRGpro but for me, it's a tool - not my only friend, as your HandEra 330 probably is in your case.

> Oh dear, curses to Handera for attempting such a feat.

Again, try to read *before* you post. As I said before, the HandEra 330 may have good engineering behind it, but this doesn't really matter if the can't sell them. Think about it. Take your time...

Deepnose (?) is pretty much on point on the HandEra thing. I don't know whose idea it was to push these things at Sam's Club, especially given its target market. "Gee honey, while you're out picking up some Pampers, could you get me a $300 PDA on the way out? Thanks dear, and get one for yourself." Can you imagine the senior working in aisle 9 trying to explain the benefits of Soft Graffiti or multiple expansion? Don't you have to PAY to even get in the store? Instead, you would think these things would have been pushed (harder)in every medical, engineering and law publication. I wanted a TRGPro something awful while I was in law school, specifically for the storage, but couldn't afford it. I got caught up in the initial Handspring fiasco so they were out of the question. Today, expansion storage is common place and every PDA maker needs more to distinguish themselves, and the way something looks counts for a lot - ask Pontiac about the Aztek if you have any doubts. I know HandEra has one of the more tech-advanced PDA's out there, (only because I'm a recovering Geek) but a lot of people just browsing for a PDA in CompUSA may not get to know the thing just because of its looks. That may sound shallow but that's the way it is. Meanwhile, folks are still buying Vx's just because their friend has one and they like the way it looks. The sad thing about it is the 330's looks probably would be a fairly easy thing to change, even if it just meant making the thing in a different color.

C'mon HandEra (and Palm) - I'm rooting for ya' because competition is good for the entire PDA market (and my wallet), but you're making it hard.

Smells like a Larry Garfield post. (Or is it Craig Bowers? Or are they one in the same?)

No-one's bashing your Handera 330s, so try not to get so defensive. I think all that's being said is that in the real world, all of Handera's engineering means squat. There aren't enough geeks out there who'll buy a big, pock-marked, dorky-looking handheld over a sleek m505 or N760C. How many people even install extra programs?.

Someone mentioned Pontiac's butt-ugly Azztek station wagon/sport ute/monstrosity and I think it would be a good example of the car equivalent of the 330 - except for the fact that the Azztek is a also piece of junk as a vehicle.

"I know tons of people that own Palm PDA's now. The only 2 people I know who own Clies are two girls in their early twenties. Everyone else has useful and "non feminine" devices ;)"

This might have been true for most of us six months ago, but everything is changing now. I'll bet that after this Christmas you'll be seeing a lot of Sonys being sported by "manly" types as well. I read here that Sony now has captured something like 10 or 15% of the market in recent months.

>I don't know whose idea it was to push these things (HandEras) at Sam's Club, especially given its target market.

I agree here, Sams Club is not a store you go looking for a PDA. But go check out your local CompUSA now. I saw they put them on the shelves this weekend.

Just FYI.

Good grief! I own a HandEra 330 and my girlfriend is looking at getting an Aztek. Obviously since the 330 doen't look like a Palm Vx it's junk. So, since the Aztek doesn't look like the new Thunderbird, it must be junk too. Could someone actually post honest info about what is wrong with the Aztek though? You obviously know so much about what is wrong with these devices, and I don't want her to buy a lemon.

<<>>

Actually I shudder everytime I see one of these Aztec things. Ugh.

Although we're really getting OT, re: the Aztek,(GM's "hip" spelling of "Aztec") was a vehicle that was designed from the inside out. The interior is excellent and innovative. The problem occurred when the designers had to put a wrapper around the thing and it came out, how should we say, "unique". The second problem occurred with the price. The exterior was designed (apparently) to attract or appeal to younger buyers. The problem was that it was (is) too expensive for its target market. If you like it, that's fine, just as long as you buy it without considering resale value. Now that you think about it, it does sound a lot like the HandEra 330. Note to HandEra - GM (slightly)redesigned the exterior of the Aztec for 2002 and it looks "better" just by changing the wheels, trim and color. It's also holding or lowering the price.

http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/details/pontiac02aztek/

I just saw a Handera for the first time today at CompUSA, and I must ask: Why do people insist on calling it ugly? Have you seen one in person, or are you judging by the pictures posted on the web? Most photos make the case look more shiny than it truly is--it actually quite subdued and classy. Yes, it carries the III-series form factor, but it seems somehow sleeker. It's definitely lighter, and the overall feel of it is quite nice. No, not as many curves as some of the more "marketed" PDAs, but it's definitely NOT something you'd be embarassed to carry. I already own an m505, but if I didn't, I'd give the 330 a long look.

OK, then are Visors ugly? Because the Handera looks very similar to a Visor Platinum or Pro.

and he's the first one who killed his T415 after he's trying to dismantle the screen and the circuit board ;o)

I've had a Vx for 2 years and have been pretty happy with it.

I wish I had taken some photos to compare the two.

I will tell you that the screen on the 415 is physically SMALLER than the Vx by about 15%. The high-res is ok.. but the screen refreshes slower so you get a sort of "ghosting" effect when things move fast.

The 415 is a poor choice for those that want to play games that have fast movement. Try any of the Breakout clones or Air Hockey 3D and you'll see what I mean.

I compared the two side-by-side in VERY dim light with no backlight. The Vx was still readable, while the 415 was so dark I couldn't tell if it was actually on!

The 415 will need the backlight far more than the Vx.

I do have to say that the vibrate and enhanced audio functions are really nice.. but I don't see much of anything using the enhanced audio except alarms.

The screen is really smooth to write on and I'd have to say it's as good or better to write on than the Vx.

Those who are concerned about the buttons shouldn't be too much. They are pretty easy to press. The Up/Down button is pretty small.. though it's easier to get used to than past Clie's.

I would advise buying from a place with a liberal return policy such as Best Buy.. that way you can try it for a few days and return it if you aren't satisfied (like I did).

Hope that helps...

The ghosting was noticable throughout.. but only when things on the screen change. It was fine for normal use.. just bad on games.

The unit did NOT seem to remember my backlight preferences. If I had the backlight on, turned the unit off, then back on again, the backlight would be off. There are hacks for that, but the backlight makes things harder to read in normal light.

Circuit City and many other online shops are starting to get the 415 in stock. Brando is taking orders for the Japanese color T600: http://www.brando.com.hk

In all honesty, I'd get a Clie.

Curcuit City has the N610 for $350 with a $50 mail-in rebate, dropping the final price to $300. They also send you a free 32mb memory stick by mail, too!

It's amazing that more companies haven't released handhelds in plain black cases. IBM has sold tens of thousands of theirs over the years based on appearance alone.

Comparing the T415, m500, and Visor Edge shows what a HUGE mistake Palm made by licensing their OS to competitors. If they had just kept it to themselves, we'd all still be buying $400 Vx (and we would be as happy as clams for the "privilege", too).

Anyone want to bet on how much Palm will lose this quarter? And the next? It's probably time for them to cut their losses - the 800 pound gorilla (Sony) is now loose in the candy store. Sony went from less than 5% market share to around 12% in a couple months. They'll probably have 25% by January. Sony can afford to delay profits for a year, but Palm and Handspring are already losing millions every week and can't survive having Sony cannibalize what is left of their profits.

At least Handspring is trying to reinvent itself...

No doubt the screen is darker than the 320 and smaller than the m50x, but the total package, i.e., price, size, sound, resolution and even the bundled programs make up for the trade-offs. I know some people have to buy online based on reviews, but the T415 is impressive when you actually get your hands on one and compare it to other PDA's. Having said that, it does go to show that Palm isn't alone when it comes to screen trade-offs and unit size and the m500 is good competiton for the 415, especially when Palm matches the price with Sony.

Here's a novel idea. Let's cut out the retarded speculating based entirely on one or two photos. How many people bought m505s based on Palm's "paper-white" display claim?

Go to a store, try it out for yourself. If you like it, get it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Now that wasn't very hard, was it?

If you buy it from an online store, you can't try it out. So, thanks for the pictures. The online shoppers among us will appreciate them.

You got to be careful when comparing this side by side. When Clie 7XX first came out, everyone compared it with Palm IIIC or Handspring Prism and said, it is too dark.

Believe me, I have had my Clie for awhile, and I can tell you that I have not had any problems at all in any ligting situation.

Go and judge for yourself.

I have 7XX series. The brightness has been more than adequate in my book under all ligtning conditions.

I dont see the big deal bashing other devices. ITS ALL YOUR THOUGHTS. Some think monochromes have weak backlights but in truth it does not. Untill you have seen the t415, dont judge.
Http://pdan.has.it : PDANature - hourly refreshed pda news, discussions, reviews, and what not!
P.S. I personally dont want to buy it but i surely wont dis it.

1) the backlight is not a P.O.S. I've seen many worse (but I am pretty sure you are)
2) you can see those icons and read those words on the hi-res launcher. (if u don't like it you can always switch back)
3) it's always nie to have more functions than less.
4) get a life

(This post brought to you by a Newton user who's extremely tired of people bashing Clie for absolutely no reason at all)

My name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana. EEK EEK!

What is the point of making a small PDA if it has a bad screen?

The T415 hasn't shown up in Manhattan yet. I hit five stores yesterday trying to see it.

If the T415 is that bad, then the above comments about the T600 never reaching the States might have some validity. Too bad.

If I'm bashing Sony, it's deserved - I stated that I have a 320 and love it! I've contemplated upgrading to a 610. I've recommended the 320 to many people over all other PDA's. I also stated that the unit would be awesome if the screen was as pictured by Sony. Sony should, however, be reprimanded for clearly deceptive tatics in their web pages and on the box for showing a paper white background when the unit clearly does not have a screen that is brighter than the 320 (or most other PDA's). If the pics on the 320 box show the true color of the screen, one would assume that the 415 pics on the box (and Sony's web site) would also be somewhat representative of the product. This is not bashing... It is mis-representation of product.

Can anyone who reads Japanese please interpret these reviews for the rest of us?

Yes... If you angle it perfectly, you can see the screen. Try reading text though, and you'll see that it has to be in a bold font to read it in most lighting conditions. The 320 was perfectly readable right next to the 415 in my camparison. Believe me... I really wanted to justify keeping the 415, but the screen is the true interface to the user for extracting information and under most lighting conditions it would cause eyestrain, while the 320 does not.

Here is a quote from the Japanese review as translated through AltaVista: "Looking at the dot certainly, finely you can feel the height of detail, but because the liquid crystal of the appraisal machine the reaction is slow, also contrast is low, with use of long time the eye may become tired rather". Amen