Comments on: Bluetooth to Outsell 802.11b in 2001

IMS and Cahners In-Stat have published separate reports showing that Bluetooth chipsets will outsell 802.11b chipsets this year. According to the senior Bluetooth researcher from IMS, "Our annual Bluetooth study predicted Bluetooth chipset shipments would rise from close to zero in 2000 to just over 10 million units in 2001, and the year will end not far from this figure. The 802.11b market is also growing fast, but shipments will still only be around the 6 million mark in 2001. We expect further dramatic growth in the Bluetooth market in 2002 as more products hit the market and consumer awareness of Bluetooth grows substantially."
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I.M. Anonymous @ 12/1/2001 10:32:10 PM #
I can see /why/ 802.11b became so popular - Have you ever tried /neatly/ running Cat5 through your house? It's almost as expensive as a pair of wlan cards ($40+/spool of cat5, punchblock, wallplates at $10+/ea, $10+/ea NICs, etc. It adds up, particularly if you bill your time at more than minimum wage.)

LOTS of people own more than one computer. One for you, the old one for the kids, maybe a third for the wife. At the rate Microsoft obsoletes hardware, you can have a 486 for your household pets, too.

Now, how many people do you know who own a PDA and a celphone, AND connect them? (Yes, I know there are theoretically other things that BT's good for, but this is supposed to be what sells it, right?)

Yeah, these guys were right about 802.11b - So? As the saying goes, "Stopped clocks are right twice a day".

Not here... and why!
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/1/2001 11:24:32 PM #
802.11b is being outsold, hmmm... I really question those numbers. All of the home network stuff is 802.11... Bluetooth will be nice, but I'm never that close to my wireless hub to actually use it.

The Bluetooth phones across the oceans are pretty cool and our guys there say that it is handy to have a Palm in your hand and the cell in your pocket (they wont be having any more kids I'm thinking. :-). No Bluetooth phones around here, and how far off is that Bluetooth card (SD or MemoryStick) really? I have seen them being demod since last year's CES, but non shipping yet.

On the other hand, you see 802.11b base stations all over the place, and all of the different sort of hardware talk together well over it. When I built my house I wired the Cat 5, only to have the wireless come out a couple years later. If you are not moving much from machine to machine, mostly doing Net stuff, then that is the way to go over the hardwire stuff. I don't thing a single Bluetooth hub will cover a whole house and who wants to wire a bunch of them all over the place for full coverage.

My two cents worth... anyone else?

RE: Why?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/1/2001 11:33:39 PM #
Bluetooth is more like a wireless USB port
IEEE 802.11 is Wireless LAN .....

Of course Bluetooth will outsell IEEE 802.11 ....
Jesus christ, why do human beings do stupid research like that ??

RE: Why?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 12:33:38 AM #
I totally believe these number... People by the 802.11b chip set with every WiFi card they buy, cos THEY NEED IT. People buy the Bluetooth chipship cos it's imbedded in the lastest greatest fancy cellphone, regardless if they use it. Bluetooth is mass market for the consumer, WiFi is a IT based concious buying decision.

RE: Why?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 2:50:55 AM #
"Now, how many people do you know who own a PDA and a celphone, AND connect them? (Yes, I know there are theoretically other things that BT's good for, but this is supposed to be what sells it, right?)"

What kind of question is that when there are hardly any bluetooth devices available?

How many people do you know that WANT to connect them? Now, that's a different story.

RE: Why?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 3:38:17 AM #
Yes, in terms of PDA usage, I'd really like to know how the numbers stack up when you factor in IRDA.

Marginally related, I know, but still curious. I think that Bluetooth equipped cellphones will be the entry level drug [for Bluetooth]. It has deadly competition though if everyone comes to their senses and realize that their PDA's are already equiped after all for IRDA. Therein lies the rub - IRDA requires only that you have the right kind of phone (which are now reasonably priced to boot) where Bluetooth requires the expense of a bleeding edge tech phone and additional hardware (via a CF/SD Card or sled, SD variety still being vaporware...) that add's upwards of $200-$300 to the equation.

RE: What kind of question...
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 11:43:26 AM #
> What kind of question is that when there are hardly any bluetooth
> devices available?

There ARE other connection technologies available - IRDA and good-old-fashioned copper spring to mind immediately.

Maybe that would have been better phrased as 'How many people do you know who already use one of the 'wire' technologies that BT is supposed to replace?' (No, desktop doesn't count. You've already got lots of wires for that stuff, and people already sell wireless keyboards/mice.)

RE: Why?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 11:46:40 AM #
Gee, I can't wait to get bombarded by more unwanted advertising as I walk down the street with my bluetooth device in my pocket, or walk into a store, or have my employer track my whereabouts. I can't wait for Bluetooth any longer. Give me my Bluetooth!!

BTW, whoever thought up such a stupid name for a concept/product? Bluetooth? Uggggh.

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 1:54:46 AM #
what a cold response... just wondering for the posterd who say irda is an alternative... have you tried to transfer info between an irda cellphone and pda?! thew reach is at most 3 feet AND you have to have them in direct line of sight... bluetooth solves that problem. it doesn't need direct line of sight and have a range of 30 feet, plus it allows for a faster transfer rate between pda and cellphone. which is now about 19kb. jest my 2 penn15...

RE: Burrr?
skoty @ 12/3/2001 2:26:55 AM #
Actually the IrDA connection speed currently supported by PalmOS devices is 115Kbps. Bluetooth, at best, will provide nearly 1Mbps. I say "at best," because if there are alot of bluetooth devices around or other 2.4GHz devices around, interference will slow that down. Due to the nature of the media (and the way they sliced it up), Bluetooth will not be able to increase that speed.

The current high speed for IrDA is 4Mbps, also known as VFIR (very fast infrared). Although PalmOS devices don't currently ship supporting this speed, as processor speed increases (ARM processors someday?) so will the IR speed.

Although it requires an unobstructed path from sender to receiver, IR connections will always be in some ways superior. If I want to send my buddy a big application, a natural extension of what I'm doing would be to Point-and-shoot the application from my device to his/hers. Line of site connections aren't all bad, especially with the vcard/application sharing usage model commen with PalmOS devices. As IR speeds increase, this will continue to be a desireable way to pass data between PDAs.

RE: Not here... and why!
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 10:21:54 AM #
> All of the home network stuff is 802.11... Bluetooth
> will be nice, but I'm never that close to my wireless
> hub to actually use it. [ ... ] I don't thing a single
> Bluetooth hub will cover a whole house and who wants to
> wire a bunch of them all over the place for full
> coverage.

Your home must be pretty big then, or you must do all your wireless networking from outside the house. With a range of 30 ft., I'd expect a single Bluetooth access point in the center of a home should cover all of most homes.

RE: Why?
Midknyte @ 12/3/2001 1:43:59 PM #
> have you tried to transfer info between an irda
> cellphone and pda?! thew reach is at most 3 feet
> AND you have to have them in direct line of sight...

No kidding. That was not my point. I was making light of the fact that IRDA is pretty much a included/baseline technology now and does not require an [exorbitant] extra cost and equipment (until at least products begin to show up on shelves w/BT and even then it will be another year or two for reasonable pricing to follow suit.).

VHS/Beta - Better does not always determine an outcome.


skoty @ 12/2/2001 8:55:00 AM #
I find these numbers hard to believe considering the prices that have appeared in articles for Bluetooth devices and add-ons. They are usually $100-$150. Bluetooth's buzz phrase is that it's tranceivers will eventually sell for $5 each. Right now 802.11b tranceivers cost quite a bit more than that, but the devices and add-ons sell at about the same prices as the Bluetooth ones. The only reason these numbers might be true is because of the marketing hoopla that's been flying around about bluetooth. Still, I have a hard time believing that there are enough techies out there that are willing to pay the "early buyer's" tax for wire replacement. Maybe the business types are the one's gobbling up the 10 million Bluetooth devices. You know, vcard exchanging with Bluetooth might be the hip thing amoung the corporate elite, I wouldn't know.

RE: Price?
mikeliu @ 12/2/2001 11:26:31 AM #
I don`t believe this one bit. I`m the only person I`ve ever met who even has a Bluetooth device, it`s somewhat hard to even find Bluetooth devices for sale in stores. I haven`t heard any buzz from inside my corporation about it at all, I just don`t know.....

I mean, I know plenty of people with 802.11b gear, I know that some corporations deploy 802.11b. I would guess that the majority of Bluetooth sales would come from those embedded devices where people don`t even realize it`s Bluetooth embedded, but that doesn`t seem possible to me considering how hard it is even to buy a Bluetooth embedded device. To do so unwittingly....well, I don`t believe it.

Unless there`s some hidden source of sales that I`m missing, something seems very fishy here to me....

RE: Price?
tipds @ 12/3/2001 12:07:06 PM #
The $5 cost is the cost to an OEM for the hardware to integrate, not the cost of the end product to the consumer.

Tip DS

Oh Great...

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 11:37:52 AM #
Oh Great...
More "wise" pronouncements from ANALysts.

Weren't these the same clowns who believed ecommerce would destroy Retail sales and that the Internet was a paradigm shift of the n-th magnitude?

Truth: Internet = new communication channel, ecommerce = <1% of retail sales...

Beware GEEKS and ANALysts bearing gifts and "wise" pronouncements as they are completely WRONG !!!

RE: Oh Great...
kevin @ 12/4/2001 6:51:11 PM #
very true LOL if you all believe this let me ask you one question WHERE IS E-BUSSINESS , where are the cell phone users buying stuff on their cell phone, where are ms pda's taking over??? those are all analyst's predictions and conclusions.

Bluetooth =/= 802.11x

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/2/2001 3:04:10 PM #
from my understanding Bluetooth is pretty diffrent form 802.11b/a because speeds and distance are considerably diffrent. Bluetooth sounds great if you want to connect you PDA, Cellphone, PC, and other thingies. But by no means is ~1Mbps within 30' good enough for networking PCs. - 3com's usb to bluetooth adapter

information also abalible at bluetooth's homesite on the specs. P 803 (pdf)

Only bluetooth capable phone: Voicestream Ericsson T28W

drw @ 12/2/2001 5:52:01 PM #
All these alleged sales of chipsets must be coming from europe as a tour of the major wireless providers' web sides yeilded just one phone with bluetooth accessories.

Funny how bluetooth is allegedly outselling 802.11b as the last news I heard on the bluetooth front was that it "missed it's window of opportunity and will be d.o.a."

One article on the att wireless site said in Finland they can start their sauna from their mobile phone. I doubt the sauna is bluetooth enabled, however, since it doesn't take much to walk 30 feet and turn the bloody thing on manually.

What we have here is a failure to innovate. I haven't seen much new technology in the past 24 months. Much of the stuff on the shelves at tech stores is the same stuff that was their last xmas. You still find computer stuff for sale with drivers for win9x/nt. That's 3 operating systems ago. Come on, these people need a lesson in supply chain management.

When I walk in a best buy, compusa, circuit city, sams, costco, office depot, office max, etc. I want to see boxes with logos "designed for MS Windows XP" Let's see motherboards with ata-133, usb2, cases with usb jacks on the front, notebooks with builtin 802.11b antennas, etc.

David in Pflugerville, TX

RE: Only bluetooth capable phone: V,oicestream Ericsson T28W
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 10:59:46 AM #
I am sitting here in my hotel room at San Jose ... getting ready for Internet World Wireless. 2 feet away from me is my Ericsson T68, a fully buzzword compliant cellphone (Triband GSM, color screen, WAP, GPRS enabled, IR, and yes, even Bluetooth).

Devices are available (you just need to know where to look), and mine is running on Cingular.

RE: Only bluetooth capable phone: Voicestream Ericsson T28W
Synwpn @ 12/3/2001 2:49:06 PM #
I carry my Ericsson with me all the time. Its got bluetooth, which is one reason I bought it. When I used from my Palm to my Nokia, forget, not worth the time. Ever tried getting a Nokia to sit nicely in your car while trying to dial out?

I'm on Voicestream. Been with them for over 3 years. You CAN get other phones to work on their system. Just need to shop around for what you want.

Where's the Bluetooth???

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 12:32:12 AM #
Sure, I can look all around and see all of these bluetooth products that these chipsets are in. Like all of those cell phones, headsets, pdas... The only problem is that they don't exist in the real world. My local CompUSA has one bluetooth product, a HP 995 printer. They can't demo the bluetooth feature because they don't have any other devices for it to connect to! Someone must be buying up all of those chipsets and sitting on them.

RE: Where's the Bluetooth???
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 9:42:43 AM #
Well the real world is actually larger than the U.S.

Here in Sweden you can easily find 3 different mobile phones from Ericsson which has bluetooth builtin. They are the T39, R520 and the T68 (with color display). The T39 and the R520 has been available in stores since may-june this year.

The number of 10 million bluetooth units sold this year is probably correct. Ericsson has somewhere between 7-9% of the global market for mobile phones. This year the global market for Mobile Phones will be somewhere around 400 million units. That means Ericsson will sell approx 30 million mobile phones this year. The reports in Sweden are that the the 3 Ericsson Mobile phones with Bluetooth are selling very well, and I think it's safe to assume that the sales of these 3 phones will account for at least 10-20% of Ericsson's total sales of mobile phones this year, maybe even more. This calculation gives that Ericsson alone will sell between 3-6 million phones with builtin Bluetooth this years. (That's roughly 50% of the 10 million bluetooth units)

There are also at least one Bluetooth enabled headset available in stores here in Sweden. And Bluetooth expansions for Palm are starting to appear aswell.
And I also now that Axis Communications are selling Bluetooth enabeled printservers and acces points. Check them out here:

So here in Sweden Bluetooth products are available. So I don't think anyone is "sitting on them".

Everyone wants their PDA to talk to their cellphone!

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 9:57:24 AM #
Just like everyone wants to order pet food off the Internet.

Bluetooth throughput is like accessing a floppy disc. 802.11b is like RAID. Get back to me when Bluetooth actually does something useful.

Uhh, so where are the Bluetooth products?

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 1:43:13 PM #
I won't even try and argue the technical merits of Bluetooth vs. 802.11. But where are the Bluetooth products? The Bluetooth guys have promised every year for the several years that "next year will be the year of Bluetooth..." and it never happens. Great products are always in the pipeline, but they are never in the stores.

RE: Uhh, so where are the Bluetooth products?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/5/2001 5:46:57 AM #
So you want Bluetooth products?


Notebooks & Printers;
-HP 995c Bluetooth Printer
-Toshiba Portege 4000
-Toshiba Tecra 9000
-Sony C1MRX
-Sony C1VSX
-Sony SRX7

Access Points;
-AXIS 5800 Print Server
-Axis 9010 Access Point
-Ericsson BLIP
-INVENTEL BlueDSL DECT-Wireless Voice & Data Connec
-INVENTEL BlueDSL-Wireless Data Connectivity Pack
-INVENTEL EtherBlue - LAN Access Point
-Red-M AP1000
-Red-M AS3000
-Widcomm BlueGate 2100
-Anycom Access Point
-Blue2Space High Gain Antenna
-HandyWave AP Modem Contained HBAP1000M
-HandyWave AP Stand-alone HBAP1000S
-PicoBlue Access Point
-Red-M AP1050

PC & Flash Cards;
-AnyCom Blue CompactFlash Card
-AnyCom Blue PC Card
-IBM 09N9812 PC Card
-Socket CompactFlash Card
-Sunderland BLUEcard PC Card
-Sunderland BLUEflash Compact Flash Card
-TDK PC Card
-Toshiba PA3053E PC card
-Xircom CBTM PC Card
-Xircom R2BTM
-3Com PC Card
-Brain Boxes BL-500 PC Card
-Brain Boxes BL-565 Compact Flash Card
-HP PC Card

-Ericsson R520m
-Ericsson T39m
-Ericsson T68
-Nokia DTL-1P connectivity pack for 6210
-Nokia LRW-1 Battery pack for 6210
-Ericsson DBA-10 Phone Adapter
-Nokia 6310
-Nokia 7650
-Nokia Wireless Car Kit

-Ericsson HBH-10 Headset & DBA-10 Phone Adapter
-Ericsson HBH-15 Headset
-Nokia Wireless Headset
-Plantronics M1000 Headset

-Compaq iPAQ H3870 Pocket PC
-Toshiba Pocket PC e570
-Compaq Bluetooth Wireless Pack with CF Card
-Red-M Blade Bluetooth Clip-on for Palm Vx
-Red-M Blade Module for Handspring Visor
-TDK Blue M
-TDK Blue5
-AnyCom BlueJacket
-Sony DCR-IP7 Handycam
-Sony DCR-PC120

USB & RS232;
-AnyCom Blue Printing Module
-Sunderland BLUEprint adapter
-TDK USB Adapter
-3Com USB Adapter
-TROY WindConnect - Wireless Printer Adapter

-BlueBird Evaluation Kit by INVENTEL
-BlueBird module by INVENTEL
-CSR Blue Lab SDK
-CSR Casira
-CSR Microsira
-Ericsson Bluetooth Starter Kit
-Ericsson ROK 101 007 module
-Ericsson ROK 101 008 module
-Ice Bluetooth Software Development Kit for Java
-Silicon Wave Radio Modem Evaluation System
-Silicon Wave Wireless Development System
-Widcomm Blue Connect Development Kit


BlueTooth WILL eventually succeed.

james_sorenson @ 12/3/2001 3:24:09 PM #
Bravo to the one who said that BlueTooth is wireless USB. That is exactly the purpose. Keep in mind that Intel had USB on the PC boards for TWO YEARS before it actually caught on. But look at USB now! It's just a matter of having a big company or two lay faith in it. Palm is already doing that.

Why will BlueTooth be cool? Because it will truly be a universal connector. Right now, you have to buy a special cable to plug one type of cell-phone to another type of PDA. Changing either device means buying another cable. (Don't talk to me about IR; geez that's a pain). Imagine BlueTooth keyboards that work on ALL devices! Imagine being able to play 2-player Palm games without having to lean over each other to match the IR ports. Everything will finally be able to connect to everything without having to move stuff around to match IR ports, or buying 17 custom cables to do the job.

James Sorenson

RE: BlueTooth WILL eventually succeed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 3:40:41 PM #
and this article is like,

"we predict that there'll be more USB (bluetooth) product than ehternet (IEEE 802.11) product"

Hello, USB is for conecting peripherials, ethernet is for connecting computers, it doesnt take an idiot to know that there's always more peripherials than computers to connect .

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/3/2001 4:15:11 PM #
Yeah, yeah. Bluetooth is the 'next USB'.

Except... We already HAVE a USB now. BT's probably not going to be a motherboard option for a LONG time, if ever. USB and USB2 fill that market space just fine, and Intel's not going to bundle BT with ANYTHING as long as it threatens their USB architecture.

USB became popular because it saved people from the (sometimes) amazing hassle of tearing their computers apart, stuffing things into them, then getting into an arm-wrestling match with Microsoft's Fine Products over how plug-and-pray would shake out.

It also allowed people to expand the Yugo-like Dell/Gateway/eMachines boxes they bought for $200 (Because including USB support ment that they could EXCLUDE just about everything else, thereby cutting the base machine price)

The only reason Intel 'put' USB on their boards is because they integrated it into the design of their support chip sets. It was quite literally a no-cost item once the design was done. For those two-three years, most of that support was a set)

Unfortunately, Palm isen't including BT as a 'No cost' on any of their hardware yet. Why go out and buy a $50 BT chip that just takes away your SD card memory, then go and spend $100+ More for a top-line celphone, when you could do the same thing with a $10 cable and downloaded software?

I can't see

RE: BlueTooth WILL eventually succeed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/4/2001 5:50:08 AM #
After reading these post it becomes painfully clear that many of you are thinking in terms of one or "I" we, "you and I" will require both technologies in a global wireless world.

Bluetooth will succeed. why? So that we can interact anywhere we choose to use new and emerging wireless technology.

Bluetooth is the answer - What's the question?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/5/2001 3:53:39 AM #
Dare I ask - In a world where almost NOTHING works with anything else fully, what makes you think that Bluetooth is just going to drop down out of the sky and make everything talk to everything else?

Did you somehow miss the fact that half the USB peripherals out there won't work with Macintoshes, the platform that really launched USB in the first place?

How long did it take Microsoft to put native Palm beaming support into their hardware? How about the other way around?

If you think that 'everything is going to talk to everything else' because it's got BT chips in it, maybe you need a littl reality check?

a $50 BT chip????? TI launches sub-$5 Bluetooth chipset
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/5/2001 5:50:28 AM #
What kind of BS is that.

Broadcom breaks the $5 Bluetooth barrier,,t294-s2096044,00.html

TI launches sub-$5 Bluetooth chipset,,t269-s2097647,00.html

Tip: Think before you yell.

Signs point to further Bluetooth delays

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 7:32:02 PM #

Bluetooth now expected another year of delay.

"Bluetooth will happen, but not in 2002," observed Dwight Decker, president and chief executive of Conexant
Systems Inc. The Newport Beach, Calif.-based company is a supplier of communications chips, including
Bluetooth-enabled devices. "Bluetooth is a 2003 product," Decker said in a recent interview with SBN.



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