Comments on: Rumor: Sony to Release S360

How is this setting the pace. I read on this site comments, all the time that, the Palm OS has had no improvements in years (although I disagree with this, it is regularly repeated in comments here). That minor changes in the hardware, i.e. the addition of greater memory is not enough to save Palm.

One could just as easily pose these comments in relation to this device or for that matter any of the Sony devices that have been released over the past year with the exception of their first wave of new devices. Each newly released device has been incremental in nature and has appeared in a remarkably short time after the device it is replacing. In fact, one could argue that this short product span will/is hurting the Palm handheld market. I am not going to go into any Sony bashing here because it is not necessary or appropriate, each of the Palm licensees (including Palm) advance the platform and cater to a different market segment. Too me this is a good thing because I believe that this is the true we to keep Palm alive in the long run, with diversification of the product line. Unlike the PPC devices that are virtually identical at this point, when you shop for a Palm there is real choice.

Anyway, if one is being completely impartial in examining the Palm licensee landscape, the innovator head and shoulders above the other (even without a color screen) is HandEra. But even with HandEra's innovation (dual expansion, high-res screen, virtual graffiti area) they have not set the world on fire. So maybe, just maybe we tech nerds that visit this site and others like it need to have a broader view of the actual market and make room for the realities of the situation.

Finally, while I look forward to the developments that this year may bring, I hope that Palm devices do not become more complicated because of it. I hope, that more capable does not need to be synonymous with complicated.

I have to agree with this comment.

Sony is an excellent consumer electronics company, they stay abreast of the competition and do not hesitate to add new features to their products. Unfortunately, a computer (even a handheld one) should not be on the same type of product cycle. First, when you put a device on this type of cycle the interest of significant customer support is diminished because the device is no longer being produced.

Second, I buy a Sony VCR and two weeks later Sony discontinues my model and releases a new VCR with one more feature, two weeks after discontinues that new model and releases another model with one more additional feature. Six months of this and you might a VCR on the market that truly does something that the one I bought does not but this is not such a big deal because it is still a VCR and it still works and does the job well. Also because the VCR is a consumer product it is probably cheaper to replace it then to get it repaired if it is out of warranty, so the notion of it being obsolete is not a significant consideration. When a computer device is treated as a commodity like this, the value of your $200 - $500 investment is diminished far sooner than one should reasonably expect and all because of incremental, superceding devices. Soon the device you bought just 3 months ago will be on a shelf at a small electronics store for $50 right beside the Sony radio/cassette player.

Is that what we, as users, really want?

For that, SONY ROCKS!!

For that, SONY ROCKS!!>>

I agree with this comment, to an point.

Sony has been very aggressive in pricing their devices. And this has certainly caused both Palm and Handspring to forego the pricing scheme that they enjoyed for so long (although I am sure that the downturn in the economy had a little to do with this as well). But competition is something different from what Sony seems to be doing which is releasing new devices with minimal changes and an incredibly short life span. For example, with built-in memory expansion, isn't addition of increased internal memory a minor upgrade? And doesn't it beg the question that if they can release a device for the same price and form factor, why didn't they do it originally?

Enter handspring and TRG and it picked up again, but the innovation model now was... stay with what we have until a competitor innovates something new, then one up it with the next release. This somewhat shortened the pace of innovation but it was still slow as both companies would only release new product when they felt they needed to to maintain market share, etc. In other words their sales were dropping so its time for something new.

Sony takes a different approach to this for better or worse... they see it as a consumer product like a walkman or minidisk player. They are used to adjusting their products very frequently as the consumer segment is MUCH more competitive than the handheld market is. Its not likely sony will change and their approach will force the competition to keep up or be left behind. Im sure customer support will suffer, and sonys upgrade policy stinks... but on the plus side theres something new to drool over much more frequently and just as frequently you can find old models at great prices on clearance.

As far as innovation goes... most of the licensees have done something... its palm that lags behind in general.

Sony - Highres pixel doubled screen, VFS, Jog Dial
Handera - Proprietary CF support (later VFS), hires reflective TFT, soft graffiti.
Handspring - Springboard, 16mb, first 33mhz unit.
Palm - PalmVII wireless, palmV formfactor.

Im sure im missing some things, but most companies have done some innovation... palm counted on this, and they are the folks that merge all the innovation into the next OS release. I figure they did this so they wouldnt have to spend as much time on R&D but they didnt count on how 'behind' their units seem as it takes a few months or longer for new features to make their way into the Palm OS proper.

Battery Peformance Tests and More at... http://www.pocket-gizmos.com

Well, take your bitchin' elsewhere. If you don't like Sony's than go buy yourself a Palm Vx or the ever stellar m505 with crappy backlight.

'Nuf said.

I bought my 900 mhz dell back in february. A month later they had 1ghz. Then 1.13ghz. Then 1.3ghz. Now they're up to 2ghz!!

Dell doesn't care about their customers! They should still be selling my 900mhz dell for the same price!!

As for Sony dropping support, they still support the ancient S300 and release updates for it. And even if they do "drop support," it's a Palm device. There are a million avenues for Palm support, like this one right here.

Years ago, Palm was the only player (I had a Palm III), then came Handspring with its PDAs (I upgraded to the incredibly thin Edge model), but now Sony is the innovator PDA manufacturer.

I bought a color Sony 610 (upgraded from the Edge) a few months ago, and couldn't be more happier with it. Two friends in my office recently purchased Sony Clies and it seems Sony is now the name of the game.

It's sad that Palm and Handspring got caught napping at their own game only to be surpassed by the newcomer in this market. Good luck to Sony and keep the new models coming...

Second, the palm hardware isn't that great! Isn't the software which make your system overall valuable?
Software like WordSmith, ThinkDB, NoahPro, ActionNames, SilverScreen, AvantGo, PowerOne Graph set the pace to.
Don't they make your palm worth the money?
ThirdParty products like memory expansions, the Stowaway Keyboard ( which i own ) and other think i forgot. They make your palm useful.

yours
SaxonMan
long live the intelligent user!

If u wanna criticize my english and tell me that a person who writes this cant be intelligent...
maybe that's because i'm german.

Sony's support does leave something to be desired and I can only hope they will learn.

Sony is leading the market in palm os

Each new model adds something
High res screen (colour and grayscale)
more ram(not really needed if you got MS)but still nice
Jog Dial (old idea now) cant be ignored because it is so usefull.

All at very affordable prices

The only thing I would have like is having all the models the same size so 3rd party cases would be compatable with all clie's

I just hope Sony realizes a Palm OS handheld isn't just a Walkman and that they need to think about the 3rd party add-on accessories. They need a "universal connector" too, just like Palm. One that is around longer than the N series was around!

Sony doesn't have a very good history in this area. They tend to have a "if we don't offer it, you don't need it" philosophy.

1.
I personally do not think releasing a new model every 3 month is a bad thing. A new model is a choice for new customers, that does not mean old customers have to, or be forced to upgrade.

When you buy a Pentium III 850Mhz and 1GHz is out after 3 months later, would you just dump your 850 and go for 1GHz? Of course not! The releasing of 1GHz means another improvement in technology and available for new customer's choice.

If the fact of "realeasing a better technology after you spend your money" pisses you off, then you don't have a correct concept as a computer product consumer.

This is all about technology and innovation, improvement! If anybody has the same thought in palms, then I think he does not really "need" a palm, he just "wants" a palm.

2.
What's wrong about keep using your stuff after it is discontinued?

Does discontinuing Clie S300/N710/N610/S320 makes the users of them not able to keep using their device? Or will it terminate the wonderful moment it had been helping you on managing your life/business?

NO. That only means, they can make a better device now and wish the customers who taking out $$ from their pocket now, to get a new stuff instead of old ones.

2.
Base on your words "How can a consumer decide when to buy a Sony if they release a new unit every 3 months?"

Well.. ask yourself: "How can I decide which CPU to get for my computer if they release a faster one every 3 months?"

If you have this thought in your mind, then this is absolutely not correct.

When I need a PDA, I spent my money on what's the best at the time. I can not wait for the next one because a better one will eventually be on the market and I NEED IT NOW.

The next time I'll upgrade my palm is when I feel this is not powerful enough for the tasks I wish it to do for me and I need a better device to serve me, NOT WHEN THEN ANY NEWER MODEL IS RELEASED.

3.
A one year cycle for Palm device is absolutely too long.

Take a look at Palm Inc., Making a long-term-life of their m1xx and m5xx series; how much revenue (or I should say, loss) they got in last quarter? I can only say.. poor business strategy.

Take a look at SONY, how many new innovations had been made in one year while Palm only made a tiny move? HiRes(color and monochrome), MP3, FM sound effect, super slim, seamless case....

4.
I agree on your point at that SONY might not be making profit on those Clies and they seal this hole by selling other electronics products.

However this is a good move in trying to lead the trend, also a good thing to consumers -- you pay less to get a better thing.

>It is? I hope not, I really can't afford to buy a new
>one each year.

Apparently you did not get what I mean in my (1) and (2).

Why you need to by one PDA each year? I can't afford this, either! But why do you think you MUST upgrade it whenever a new model is out in the market?

If a PDA works for you and is enough for you, of course you can use it for 5 or 10 years.

My PDA retires when it is not enough to work for me, NOT when it does not keep its 1st place in market as the next model released.

>I still have an use my other Palms, the xe (I had it
>repaired recently) is used with my palmpix camera,
>and my IIIc is used by a friend. Both of these are
>over a year old, and still are great PDAs.

I really love to know what makes you think both of your Xe and IIIc can last one year and still are great PDAs *BUT* N710C, N760C or N610C can NOT work for you for one year and/or can not still be great PDAs after one year??

To me the term life-cycle means how long something lives, or is useful. So saying something has a one-year life cycle means that after a year it becomes useless or so out of date that that is the case. What I was trying to say was that I hope that my devices don't have a one year life-cycle, and I went on to say that I still use my older devices, so they must have a longer life-cycle than one year. I guess I get that from being intrested in biology, and saying somethings life-cycle is how long it will biologically live.

I'll still be using all my PDA's in some fashion for years to come. Just like I used my C64 for years and years and years.

I think every piece of hardware lives for as long as someone can use it. Maybe one day I'll donate my older PDAs to someone who could use them. (Well I already did that for my IIIc)

As for new devices for my older PDAs, no, I don't buy anything for them. I have a palmpix camera, a GPS and a modem and thats all I'll ever have for them.

As for sony tech support. I have never had a problem with them, but then I only contacted them once. Being a long time PDA user I know what they will say, "Hard reset"... thats what everyone says. I know how to fix my PDAs, having hacked one IIIxe to play mp3's to headphones and having replaced a screen on another. I'm not saying I'm an expert, far from it, but I would say I am a power user.. and a nerd ;)

Chris

As for actually availabity, I've heard everything from "a couple of weeks after announcement" to "first week in February".

I do know that my local CompUSA had the T415 about a week before it officially went on sale. I got to play with one, even though they weren't supposed to show it yet.