Comments on: Handspring to Eventually Stop Making the Visor
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RE: Good luck Handspring
RE: Good luck Handspring
RE: Good luck Handspring
RE: Good luck Handspring
This would be a stupid announcement
Lets hope this is not true.
It's True
http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/5/12625.html
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News Editor
RE: It's True
The slant that you've taken Ed, is a strong and not necessarily correct one. It almost seems like you're reporting that Handspring is going to stop Visor sales, development, and support next week, which definately is not the case. It may be more than two years down the road (when all warranties are up) that they finally put the Visor line behind them. I think that you're just trying to gloat about the possibility of one of your predictions comming true (Springboards will be phased out). Lets try to keep the news unbiased as much as possible.
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
You have to admit that the prospects for the Springboard don't look good. If Handspring had intended to continue using it, I believe Ms. Dubinsky would have made that clear as part of this statement. That she didn't do so I think speaks volumes. Perhaps I'm reading too much into an omission but conference calls like this with analysts and the press are carefully planned out and everything that gets mentioned, or doesn't get mentioned, is for a reason.
---
News Editor
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
We all have opinions and it colors the way we think and write. It's unavoidable.
My point (attempt to get this bit back on topic): Keep up the analysis, Ed! If anyone disagrees, it will just lead to (hopefully) thoughtful discussion.
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
Handspring may need to do some damage control ASAP. So far, they have not made a nickel off of the unreleased Treo, and Donna has started rining the death bell of the only thing that they have ever sold! Lets hope this does not blow up in their faces.
Doug
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
Lord knows, you are not required to take the same opinion as the editor! I enjoy how he can extrapolate viewpoints and make connections to past stories. It is what separates this site from Handango.
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James Sorenson
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
RE: This would be a stupid announcement
1. Take a look around you and see how many people have cell phones stuck in their ear vs. jotting down a note on a Visor or Palm. Janitors, Preachers, High School kids, etc.....everybody has a cell phone....but not a handheld.
2. There will come a time.....where the handheld device will take the same path as the calculator, VCR, CD Radio, etc.....in other words....they will become much cheaper and common place than they are today.
Try making a profit on those margins while still making a innovative product.
HandSpring will not only survive.....it will prosper.
Visor discontinued...
Guess I shouldn't hold out for a new hi-res reflective TFT screen Visor. Seems like everytime I buy a handheld, a year or so later they discontinue it. Then if I buy something new, I have to buy new accessories to go with it. I'm about ready to switch back to my dayrunner and shuck the entire electronic thing.
RE: Visor discontinued...
RE: Visor discontinued...
Ok, I probably could find one, buy I'm faced with these choices:
1) Buy a new one (Probably a Clie T615 actually) and replace any/all accessories I still want/need.
2) Pay almost as much as a new one would cost, for a replacement for the old one, with the understanding that cool accessories like the thumb keyboards will never be made for it, and I won't be able to use memory expansion, etc. (Am I really the only one constantly pushing the edge of 8mb?)
3) Buy a used one cheap, and risk it dying just like mine did. (Besides the non-replacable LI battery in it would be just about at the end of its lifespan by now, unless they never used or charged it.)
Just my thoughts...
RE: Visor discontinued...
Please don't buy a T615. I want one and I don't want
it discontinued. :-) ("everytime I buy a handheld,
a year or so latere they discontinue it")
RE: Visor discontinued...
RE: Visor discontinued...
Sad...
RIP
RE: Sad...
But I guess they have no choice, they can neither compete with Palm in the low end not Sony on the high end. Since they are going to die anyway, why not take the last bet?? They may survive....
RE: Sad...
RE: Sad...
However, if they offer no form of expansion for the TREO then they are admitting the Springboard was a flop. If that is the case, then I'm afraid they have ruined the business contacts that have given HS the edge(no pun intended) for the past few years.
At some point, HS *WILL* be considering a form of expansion for the TREO and when they do, they will find it difficult to sign up their first manufacturer.
I wonder if it was that Napping module that finally made them pull the plug on the Visor? Hmm.... -That's a Joke, ok ;)
RE: Sad...
RE: Sad...
Currently, the company's cash and investments balance is $175.5 million, of which $124.8 million was unrestricted. Last quarter, Handspring lost $15.2 million and the quarter before it was $26.2 million. So at absolute worst, the company might lose $30 million a quarter. And that's assuming the Treo utterly flops. That means Handspring is good for at least another year at minimum.
That's a really pessimistic analysis. Handspring has an optimistic one that says the company will be profitable by June. In either case, the company isn't going anywhere soon.
---
News Editor
RE: Sad...
http://biz.yahoo.com/p/h/hand.html
It's $112.7 mil cash as of Dec 31st, 2001. That includes investment(s) from Qualcomm already.
With Visors quitting Handspring's lineup in the coming quarters, Handspring's revenue will come from primarily Treo. In the meantime, the revenue will only keeps going down and down. Also, when new users know that the Visors will be discontinued, that hurts consumer's confidence to buy their handhelds because there is a likely chance there will not be add-ons and accessories any more.
Yes, Handspring may not run out of cash when it announces the color-version. But it would just shortly after that. Remember, you have to pay cash to manufacturers to make the products. So that if the monochrome versions are dying, they will not get the cash returned to build the color version one. And more important is that if the B/W fails, would anyone buy the color one, presumably it will be about $200 more? I know most of us are Palm lovers, but Handspring's condition is really in question.
RE: Sad...
5 months may be a little too pessimistic, but I can promise you that Handspring won't be celebrating Christmas, if you know what I mean.
RE: Sad...
New English?
RE: Sad...
;-)
Bye, bye Handspring
If Handspring really focusses only on the Treo, I'll bet they'll be dead at least in two years. A combination of PDA and cell phone sucks. It's heavy nadf bulky, or has a way to small screen. genuine PDAs and genuine cell phones are still much more powerfull (small m505 with all it's advantages, ericsson t39 with voice dialing, vioce commands for answeriung/rejecting calls and so on), and if I loose one device or one battery runs out, the other is still good. WIth bluetooth built in in all future PDAs and cell phones, no one needs a LAME combination, because you can use the two in a much more conveniant way (cell phone to your ear, pda in your hand) or like a combo device (cell phone in the briefcase, but use the PDA like it was a combo).
The Siemens SX45 was the one I thougth to be a good combination, but it's really LAME. It has the old PPC system, not upgradeable to PPC2002 (I like Palm OS better, but that's not the point here), has less phone features than the cheapest Siemens cell phone two years ago. It really sucks.
The Nokia communicator is a real brick and very ugly. It's a good device only for few people, and most people buying it are dump asses in my opinion "Wow, PDA and phjone, I have to get it" - despite the fact it costs more than two good separate devices and it has many weaknesses. The succes is mainly because it has "Nokia" written on it, I think. And Handspring will have a hard time competing with them, and surely be dead if they concentrate just on wireless PDAs. At least they'll loose what tehy started to built in europe, because:
- wireless data prices are much higher
-almost no cell phone user knows the name Handspring here, and people in general know much less about PDAs than in the US
I can only hope that Handspring doesn't make such a stupid descision. Otherwise it would be a very sad day and I too could only say: RIP, it was nice to have had you with us for some months, Handspring.
zap!
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
The Treo is smaller than many handhelds that don't have built in wireless For example, the m505 is 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.5". The Treo is 4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7. Asside from being slightly thicker, the Treo is shorter and much less wide than a m505. Here's another way to look at it. Get out a deck of cards and look at it. The Treo is smaller than that.
As part of the design process, Jeff Hawkins and his team used the Treo as their mobile phone in public many, many times. No-one saw that they were anything other than mobile phones.
Think of it as a super-slim PDA that just happens to have a mobile phone built into it.
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
Can you tell us if there will be an expansion option for (i.e. Springboard adapter/sled option) the TREO? I think this would ease many of our concerns about the Visor line being dropped.
If not, is this even possible with the TREO?
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
As appealing as the treo is to me, I could never go back to just 8 (or even 16) megs. I am hooked on all that extra space the SD card gives me.
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
BTW A cell phone in one hand a palm in the other is no solution at all. I am sick and tired of fumbnling my PDA with one hand trying to look for a number and having the phone in the other.
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
Have you actually played with one? I have, and it is neither heavy nor bulky.
RE: Bye, bye Handspring
So how am I supposed to jot down some information while the person at the other end is reciting it to me? The phone's up to my ear right?
Oh wait, there's the "Star Trek Communicator" (speaker phone) mode right? What if the information is private? What if it's a noisy environment?
A separate headset? Is there a jack for one? If so, carrying the headset/wire around will be a drag. Maybe it could be a bluetooth headset?
Honestly, I don't know how a combined phone/pda is really going to be better than two separate devices.
Mobile phone companies...
So high margins it is.
By only entering the mobile and wireless arena, they will be pummeled by Nokia, Ericsson, and Motorola. If GSM is the best they can offer, they're in deep doo doo.
Most people DO NOT want a phone that is larger than what they have. ONLY the geeks or the gadget freaks want phones that look like PDAs.
Well, good luck and I'm sure the armchair marketing "geniuses" here will claim that everyone wants a PDA-phone. Well, that's why you work a day job in the backroom as opposed to running the marketing for Nokia.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
I think I said this long time ago, Handspring is going to drop the whole visor and springboard all together, and those handspring zombies are like "no no no, Sony will go out of PDA business next year (2002)" and "Sony S-series can't use those new MS modules that's why Visor/springboard rules!" isn't that ironic ? In the 16th day of Jan 2002 we hear the news of Handspring dropping the visor line.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
> ONLY the geeks or the gadget freaks want phones that look like PDAs.
As I said above, Hawkins and the design team used the Treo in public many times and no-one noticed that it was anything other than a mobile phone.
Have you seen the Nokia "Brick"? Its really called the Communicator and its HUGE. Its also the number one selling handheld in Europe now at $799.
Here's a pic (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20020115/tc/mdf113195.html)
Once the Europeans get a look at the Treo, which is half the cost and a quarter the size, they are going to snap them up. If the Brick is the best the European mobile phone companies can do, this is going to be no contest.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
Their decision to sell in Europe first is a smart move, though. GSM coverage is great. And, apparently, if people are buying Nokia communicators over there in droves, the price may not be an issue there. In fact, he might be best served by moving his entire company to Europe and not bother selling it in the US at all.
If he can get the price down by the time the color screen is ready and GSM expands by then (it will be expanding thanks to Cingular and AT&T's move to GSM - but I don't think that will happen till next year), he may be OK.
Scott
RE: Mobile phone companies...
There is a numeric keypad overlayed on the Treo's keypad. Is very easy to use for one hand dialing. This is not available on the grafitti version of course.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
RE: Mobile phone companies...
One hand dialing:
The Treo has been designed for one handed use. Just because it doesn't have the standard 9-key keypad on it doesn't prevent this.
Most phones calls are not made by typing in someone's phone number. You call someone by selecting their name in a list and then pressing 'call' or some similar button. The Treo uses the jogdial to allow you to do this with one hand.
Voice Dialing:
Have you ever used this? All the current versions are pathetic. You need to set it up in a sound-proofed room and then use it in a sound proofed room. Of no use in a public place.
Always On:
The release version of the Treo will be GSM only. However in the summer we'll get a software upgrade to GPRS, which is always on.
Price:
It will be subsidised. All phones sold on GSM networks are subsidised by the operator. When you buy the device you are tied into a monthly contract for a certain length of time. For example you may get 200 euros of the list price when you sign up for a year's contract.
Cheers
Russell
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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
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Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
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RE: Mobile phone companies...
Russels law
Voice Dialing:
Have you ever used this?
All the current versions are pathetic.
You need to set it up in a sound-proofed room and then use it in a sound proofed room. Of no use in a public place....
---
Dear Russel!
I use a Ericsson T39 mobile phone and voice dialling basically only to dial my numbers. Neither has the phone to be set-up in a sound-proof room nor does it need a quite surrounding when calling. Strangely – even in the noisiest places the Ericsson T39 can separate two friend of mine without failing once in a hundred times
For example: he can separate Peeeeter and Peter and the numbers are dialled absolutely accurate.
If you would have tried only once what you claim is not working – you would know otherwise.
Without any intention of harassing or flaming you: That very point only which can be confirmed by anyone seeing a local cellphone dealer today, put some shades on the rest of you posting as well.
Sorry – but THATS a fact
Boris v Luhovoy
www.palmtop-pro.com
RE: Mobile phone companies...
Samsung phone and the voice dialling feature. It took a min. of 3 attempts in a relatively quiet
office to get it to dial the right number. In a noisy area, ie restuarant, up to 10-15 attempts
before they give up in disgust and manually input the number.
Not to flame or harrass Boris, but that is a fact as well. I can show you 10 different people for
whom voice dialing does not work. Between them, they use 3 different handsets and each and
every one of them say that the feature is worthless. Does this mean that Boris and his T39 is
an isolated working example? NO! It just means that YMMV with the feature. Should anyone
point towards a cell phone dealer and say, "But it works there! You and your friends just don't
know how to use the feature." The main purpose of the cell phone dealer is to make money.
If they demo ANY feature in the store, it is in their best interest to show that it works one the
first attempt. Otherwise, the feature seems to take more effort than it saves. And of course,
they are hoping that the feature helps make the sale.
Should someone think I'm defending Russell, no. I am not defending Russell. I don't know Russell.
I am only giving another example of voice dialing.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
I now have a Motorola v.60c (with voice dialing). I used it at a noisy indoor arena with barking dogs all around. I was at the AKC National Championships in Denver. Again, I used the voice dialing with no yelling into it.
I won't say that it works great everytime, but it does work very well. At the times that it did not work was mostly in a quiet room. I think it was due mostly to the way I pronounced the names rather than noisy environments.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
But... IT is already $399 when you signed a two-year contract! How much will that be without a contract?
Is Handspring going to sell these Treos to enterprises? If so, where are their partners? Currently, there are not many enterprises purchasing their Visors.
Is Handspring going to sell these Treos to consumers, just like some of us? If so, please reduce your price to around $249 because Samsung's one is only $299, and it's color. Of course, Samsung's one is not GSM, but it does not make a heck of a difference in North America. Always-on e-mail and Internet access on GPRS will not be avaiable across the cities until the end of the year.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
Actually, the SprintPCS web site lists $499 for the color Samsung I300. Maybe if you got a great corporate contract with Sprint you could get it for $200 off, but most can not.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
I have some friends who use a
Samsung phone and the voice dialling feature. Does not work...
--
you always get in life what you pay for - The Samsung is comparable cheap stuff - get the real thing like a Ericsson T39 and you see what nowadays technic can do. You cannot compare a Beetle with a 747 longtail - can you?
RE: Mobile phone companies...
I have used voice dialing, specifically on an Ericsson R380s.
OK - so a sound proofed room may have been a little excessive, but you certinaly couldn't set up voice dialing by a road, or in a restaurant. Same went for activating it, no chance in a bar or something.
It did work some of the time, but not as reliably as setting up speed dials and using those. So I tended to use the speed dialing rather than hoping voice-rec would work. The only time I'd use voice-rec was when on hands-free. However, after saying 'Phillip' 3 times progressivly louder and people around me were starting to look at me as though I was mad... I would have to get the phone out and use speed dial instead.
Maybe things have got better since the R380s. But I certainly didn't have a good experience with it.
Cheers
Russell
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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
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Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
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Voice dialling work
The background voice or how loud you speak when voice dialling is, and I have experienced this several times, is of minor concern, but the name has to be pronounced the same / as similar as possible as recorded. Therefore the phone can distinguish between a "Peeeeter" and a hard spoken "Peter!"
After a six-pack (depends on size & brand) your pronunciation starts to shift and your voice gets louder (but not neccessarily more accurate) – that is also the case after several Gin Tonic. Thats indeed a general bar & restaurant specific problem.
I stand firm by my claim - in german langage the voice dialling with nowadays technology is simply working - under virtually all enviroments.
Boris von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-Pro Magazin
www.palmtop.at
RE: Mobile phone companies...
Probably the trick is to record your initial sample in a quiet place and try to speak normally. It's also worth listening to it played back so you know you got it right.
Then don't shout just because you are in a noisy environment, it's not necessary.
RE: Mobile phone companies...
you always get in life what you pay for - The Samsung is comparable cheap
stuff - get the real thing like a Ericsson T39 and you see what nowadays
technic can do. You cannot compare a Beetle with a 747 longtail - can you?
-----
Gee ... and you skip the part where I mention 10 other people that use 3
different handsets and it doesn't work for them either. Unless you assume
that 3 different handsets just means 3 different Samsungs of the same
model. Oh ... and I see your justification too, Samsung phone is to
an Ericsson T39 as a Beetle is to a 747 longtail. A phone compared to
a phone and a car compared to a jumbo jet. Right ... that made sense ...
Thanks for playing. Come back when you can find a something constructive
as opposed to just playing a 'Brand X phone is the best and anything else
just sucks' card.
And for those that were curious about the price of a new phone without
service and activation, just go and ask any dealer for the price of a new
phone without activation. They will look at you funny and all, but they
should be able to tell you. Otherwise, take a look at the price of the
newest phone you are interested in and add this range to the price:
$200 to 2x in-store price. The phones are not cheap. The operator sells
them at a loss WITH service in hopes that it can recoup that loss off a
1 yr contract. As an example, before 'The Matrix' and Nokia's 8800 series
phones were released, my 2100 series phone died. I went into the store
to see what they could do and came out with a phone number as the
store couldn't offer what I wanted (another 2100 series phone as I still
had 2 extra battery packs and a desktop charger). The 800 number
didn't have any of the 2100s, and offered me a 6100 series phone. The
catch? I had to sign a new 1 yr contract to get the discounted price.
Otherwise, I would have to pay $599 to buy the same phone and stick
to the calling plan I had which they had discontinued 6 months ago.
Handspring 1, armchair critics 0
about how Handspring would disappear after moving
from the Visor to the Treo look a bit silly.
They are doing well with the Treo and have
a palm-only version (Treo 90) as well as several models with
GSM phones, a CDMA version coming (with Sprint),
and other new models pending. I think the geeks in the
crowd underestimated the extent to which the mass
consumer market would move on something that had
a decent cell phone and a PalmOS device and a keyboard
at half the price of the Nokia brick and at 5-1/4
ounces in weight, smaller than many existing cellphones.
Maybe some of these are the same people that predicted
that Windows would never sell when UNIX was so readily
available? Or at least have the same attitude?
I dunno, but it seems like an OK parallel.
Springboard is dead
RE: Springboard is dead
[http://www.mediathreat.net]
This is only market-speak.
RE: This is only market-speak.
RE: This is only market-speak.
RE: This is only market-speak.
RE: This is only market-speak.
1. I like the HS Treo specifications, but I will not buy one because I do not wish to be forced into changing my ISP carrier, business cards, letter stationery, and have to contact all my customers and associates that I am using a different cellular telephone number.
2. I did not buy the H.S. VisorPhone springboard for my Visor Delux for the same reasons.
Isn't HS harming it's chances for survival and success buy "forcing" the consummer to conform to its marketing strategy and accommodations rather than making products that are convenient for us to use?
Why should I chang my carrier just to use HS products! They should have offered my options.
My Visor "died" and even though I liked my Visor, I think it is time to change companies. I am evaluating the HANDERA 300. It looks very good!
Goodbye HS
RE: Goodbye HS
RE: Goodbye HS
RE: Goodbye HS
LoL .... you are funny ..... now go back to your imaginery world.
RE: Goodbye HS
Good luck then
Reminds me that I should do a writeup about that SMS bug in the VP I found that they refused to acknowledge. So little time...
RE: Good luck then
Good luck I have a Nokia so I could actually read what people where trying to tell me.
i luv my visorphone!
Bad Idea
...Well basically, all of you nice people who supported us as a company are screwed. Sorry, but thats life!"
I would suggest that all HS users Email HS and let them know how displeased you are if in fact these comments are true.
Gregg
RE: Kiss the Prism II Goodbye
RE: Kiss the Prism II Goodbye
RE: Kiss the Prism II Goodbye
Handspring is wise to quit!!
Sony has already put out enough handhelds that if Handspring wants to compete they will likely drain most of their resources just trying to compete with one of Sony's handhelds.
Palm Inc. has better make some decisions soon. With Handspring already a leg up in the communication market and Sony's emerging dominance in the PDA organizer/entertainment market, Palm's hardware division may find it hard just to find scraps.
RE: Handspring is wise to quit!!
Dump those eggs...
I don't have a definitive opinion as to what will happen with Handspring, except to say that it'll be interesting to watch. I hope they succeed.
If I had predicted *this*?
RE: If I had predicted *this*?
"The weight of these actions on Sony's part can only lead to an awful yet inevitable conclusion: The Clié
is most likely destined to be abandoned by Sony here in the US."
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1695
(c) Copyright 2001 by Mike Cane.
RE: If I had predicted *this*?
Next!
For Sale: Visor Prism with memory card.
DUH!
Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
Having seen and used a Treo in person, I can tell you that it is a good phone and (IMHO) will do well in the market, regardless of the fact that it is on GSM. Look at VoiceStream - they're signing up customers left and right on GSM *without* having a phone as cool as the Treo. And according to the stats I've seen, GSM networks actually have the largest percentage of global cellular customers. While I would have preferred CDMA initially, I personally don't think Handspring is making any mistakes at all.
The VisorPhone interface is very intuitive and well done - and that's what they've used on the Treo (with some enhancements). I actually love my Samsung I300 as far as size and functionality, but I hate the interface. You can tell they slapped together something pretty quickly in that department. I actually tried to use a Prism+AirPrime for a while so that I could have the best of both worlds ... but the size was just too difficult to manage.
The Treo will do well, but it's unfortunate to see Handspring turning their backs on so many other small companies that made Springboards ... the thing that made Handspring a better choice than Palm. Guess it goes to show you that when it comes to the bottom line ($$$) there really is no loyalty in business these days.
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
I would expect this rumored statement to be retracted, if it was true in the first place. Given the amount of time it takes to get hardware product into the pipeline, you don't evangelize a format and then pull the rug out two years later... and then expect to have any credibility in getting third-party support for future product offerings.
If true, then kiss Handspring (or at least Dubinsky) goodbye, because this screws a large number of folks who will never trust them again. It even puts Palm OS at risk as potentially too unstable to support with custom hardware products.
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
Most smart people could figure out that if the Treo did well the Visor was doomed. Why did she have to announce this BEFORE the Treo started doing well or was even in stores?
Its like telling your girlfriend that if things go well with the cute girl you just saw for the first time across the bar, you're going to dump her. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going to happen next.
Its another tragic case of premature annunciation.
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
You're absolutely correct. At Comdex this year, I saw a ton of vertical-market stuff. Fortunately, most of those companies also had non-springboard versions ... but this will definitely piss a few companies off!
And then there's companies like the guys who make MemPlug. I would imagine that he just soiled his underwear. Donna basically blew up their entire company, because (unless I'm missing something) all they sell is springboard modules!
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
I would tend to agree that the board of directors is going to be firmly unhappy, and may very well have her head on a platter. You don't tell everyone in the world that you have plans to abandon a product when you have tens of thousands of unsold units sitting in warehouses (Pro and Neo) from a new-release ramp-up. Stupid, just incredibly stupid.
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
r she might have lynched her career. I don't know if HS is publically traded, or if there is a board of directors, but I wouldn't be surprised to see either a retraction, or the announcement of a new CEO in the near future.
Handspring is publicly traded, so this is the real deal. Public companies work VERY hard on their earnings announcements, and CEOs never make off-hand comments on the conference calls. Their answers to questions (if there even is a Q&A) are usually well-planned in advance. Failure to do otherwise is much more than an end-of-game issue, it gets you in trouble with the SEC.
She knew what she was saying - QED.
RE: Donna just lynched a dozen small companies....
Handspring is forced to stop selling Visors.
They have only around $115 mil cash. And they anticipated Treo will be a big hit so that they will manufacture many units to meet demand. These $115 mil cash is used for building B/W and Color Treos.
Without any accidents or incidents, Handspring will go bankrupt or totally under the umbrella of Qualcomm before the end of the year. Qualcomm may try to use another $20 mil to acquire the rest of the company, or may not.
Handspring's corporate executives have no ideas of which customers is Treo goin to target. No enteprise partners right now and priced too high for consumers. These CEOs have no experience on selling and marketing a product. All they learnt in the past year is like what MS generally does - ask and pay a bunch of media jerks to hype your device and the product will sell. Indeed, PPCs sales are in the dark hole or somewhere out of the universe. If Compaq or MS relies their revenue primarly on PPCs, they go out of business last year.
It is sad Handspring's CEOs to follow suit of what the PPCs manufacturers just did. However, Handspring's revenue totally relies on their products. They do not have free cash to hype, unlike MS or Compaq.
RE: Handspring is forced to stop selling Visors.
RE: Handspring is forced to stop selling Visors.
MERGE WITH PALM HS!
RE: MERGE WITH PALM HS!
Palm can get all those low end sales, especially when the m10x to be discontinued. Sony commits the same mistake because all the new accessories will not work on the Sony S series. It is much more negative than having 16MB of RAM.
RE: MERGE WITH PALM HS!
Well, I would not. The existance of the SB Connector requires the PDA to be an oversized for the sake of it.
Yuck...
HS burns Springboard Manufacturers
We are in beta test with the SM2496 right now, and if these statements are true then it looks like we will have to do a redesign. It really irritates me that HS would move away from Springboard devices after so many people have invested time and effort into developing modules to expand and enhance their Visor products.
Brian Lane
---
Lead Programmer, Shine Micro http://www.shinemicr.com
RE: HS burns Springboard Manufacturers
Why don't you make SD pheriperals instead? or cases for palms.
Graph
RE: HS burns Springboard Manufacturers
If it would be SD MP3 player that supports VFS. I want to get one.
Why the announcement?
RE: Why the announcement?
And I believe the Treo has a lot good going for it. (The Nokia 9210 is an expensive brick with far less software, but even it's selling well).
Sony end various Clie products left, right and center, yet this is seen by many as progress by Sony.
p.s. (By the way, if anyone hasn't yet heard the web cast, but wants to?, the thing about dropping Visors is said at (I think it was?) almost exactly 30 minutes into web cast).
Comments are True
I don't find that very reassuring. It looks to me like they just destroyed the entire Visor and Springboard market in one fell swoop. Noone is going to want to invest their money (and time in my case) in a product line that is obviously near its end, or is going to be perceived that way by the consumers.
Brian Lane
Lead Programmer
Shine Micro
http://www.shinemicro.com
---
Lead Programmer, Shine Micro http://www.shinemicr.com
RE: Comments are True
This seriously undermines Palm OS in the customized expansion hardware market. Palm skipped over PCMCIA and went straight to MMC/SM, which is simply not realistic for small manufacturers to support as an expansion format. Even the HandEra 330 with its CF slot isn't much help; CF is beyond the tooling ability of most small operations and really doesn't offer enough real estate for anything fancy.
It's a sad day, and there are going to be a lot of long faces at Palm Source. If this was yesterday, I could at least get a partial refund of my conference fee, because my crystal ball is saying that Palm OS was seriously hurt by this "non-announcement". I can only be but so patient; my gut says I really need to spend the time and money retooling for PPC.
...mike musick
RE: Sad to see Springboard go
But of course if Dubinsky et al cannot manage to sell effectively into the vertical markets the point is moot.
RE: Comments are True
Like someone said above, the vertical market was just getting going for Springboards. Now every system integrator wanting to do something that's in a specialty market or enterprise-specific has just been told to take a hike.
Maybe somebody with less lofty gross revenue goals (TRG?) can purchase the Visor tooling? Well, I can dream, can't I?
RE: Comments are True
The problem with "sleds" is that you take the serial port. In most instrumentation solutions or other industrial custom portable computing situations, you need your custom interface AND the serial port. Springboards (when done right) allowed your custom piece without blowing the interconnect.
HandEra still has a good product
The HandEra 330 is hands down the best, you get a CompactFlash slot, and a MMC/SD slot. I can add 64MB of memory to this thing, and still have room to plug in my GPS, 802.11 wireless NIC, cell modem, or landline modem (all based off of the miniature PCMCIA standard that CompactFlash uses) all while using the built-in microphone to record things. Plus I can use equipment that was originally designed to work with the Palm III line of products. I'm going to purchase the Lithium battery pack and charger, which will eliminate the need for the 4 AAAs it currently uses. I'm in PDA heaven...
And no, I dont work for them...
RE: HandEra still has a good product
RE: HandEra still has a good product
I like to support the little guy, but from the looks of the big companies situations I'd hate to think the shape the little company is in.
Anyone have any 'inside' info on that?
RE: HandEra still has a good product
I'm a Handera owner - and use many older perphierals - and nothing out there right now is compelling me to upgrade...maybe next year....
HandEra's always been very fiscally responsible.
TRG was doing things right back when they were making memory modules for the PPPersonal.
They were here before Handspring, before Sony, before any of these johnny-come-latelies.
And they seem to understand a lot of things that other companies don't get - examples:
* Hey! I don't WANT to buy all-new peripherals! (Fine! We work with the Palm III - Longest selling PDA in the Pilot line)
* I don't want to get roped into some idiotic propriatory peripherals. (Fine! We'll use Compact Flash - It's an exsisting standard! You can plug them into an adaptor and use them with your laptop.)
* I want improvements that actually IMPROVE the Pilot.(OK - Skip the battery-slaughtering and/or indecipherable color screens, up the speaker power(What good is an alarm you can't hear?), more usable screen area(What good is having more pixels in the same space? Are you going to use a microfiche reader to read the screen?), etc, etc.)
* Hey! TWO expansion slots! (So I can use more memory AND a peripheral!)
* I want a rechargable PDA /BUT/ I don't want to be forced to carry a charger (Or one of those ridiculously-expensive air-battery charging packs)around! (Sure! Rechargable Li-Ion pack, coming up. A standard power plug in the side you can use with any cheap-ass $12 wall wart, OR you can just use batteries! Your choice!)
They don't have to spend fortunes on advertising - And they're very rarely anybody's FIRST pda. If you already know what you want, and you've looked around, they don't HAVE to advertise - You'll hear about 'em.
RE: HandEra still has a good product
I've had my 330 for several months now and was a previous Palm IIIx user (with TRG's 8x2 MB expansion). I am completely happy with it.
I can only hope that HandEra will remain a front-runner and continue to provide real innovations (unlike Palm).
Sony is a very close 2nd on my list. If they added virtual graffiti and STANDARD expansion slots... they too would have a model worth looking at (IMHO). Sorry bashers, but color is not at the top of my list... well, at least not yet (I hope HandEra produces one).
RE: HandEra still has a good product
http://tavern.2ya.com
What is up with the PDA companies?
Oh well. They don't want my money, they can't have it.
RE: What is up with the PDA companies?
Handspring is going the right direction. There's no way (and no reason) to compete with Sony on what's become a very pricepoint-driven market (the low end).
Handspring's only chance to survive is to focus on making money, and that means margins, and that, in this arena, means more expensive product.
RE: What is up with the PDA companies?
There is no way Handspring, Palm or Sony can compete with this because they are market leaders, and everyone wants to see innovation from them not more low-end models. So they must each find their own niche. Handspring is doing this with communicators, Sony with multimedia and god only knows what Palm are doing!
Technology marches on and these companies go with it, but there will always be a market for 'cheap-as-chips' organizers and plenty of companies willing to make them.
RE: What is up with the PDA companies?
Spingboards a joke/ The Treo is Handprings only hope
Even most people who have VISORS never use them for anything other than memory. Spingboards sold the kind of person who hangs here, but you are a minority.
THEY ARE JUST TOO BIG FOR SIMPLE MEMORY. You cannot do a slim model with a springboard properly. The "Edge" with a spingboard is just lame, the reason why it has not sold well. Give it the tiny alternatives for memory expansion (sd) and it would work. Handspring is second to Palm for 1 reason. They were a cheaper alterative to Palm. Sony is coming on strong in this space. If they stayed there Sony would crush it out of existence.
PEOPLE, even if Handspring stuck to non connected devices they would have abandoned your beloved springboards.
I say take advantage of this blunder, (I agree the early anouncement will hurt visor sales during the transition.) If you keep your device you will get your spingboards at a reasonable price for the first time ever. (I do feel for beta spingboard dude, bummer for you.)If you upgrade you can make an educated decision knowing the Visor line is dying. They did you a favor.
Let me tell you about the Treo. It is so much better than current phone/PDA combos it aint funny. I've seen it, I've fondled it in my own hands. I saw it a comdex. EVERYONE who tries it LOVES it. I have YET to see a negative post by someone who has actually handled it.
That is why EVERY reviewer is fawning over it.
Soon enough they will release one with an SD slot, and cdma. It will be even sweeter.
Bottom line-
It just works.
It will be a monster.
This is NOT going to get any better for long!
PDANature - http://pdan.has.it - Hourly refreshed pda news, reviews, commentarys, software, software update notices, features, etc. http://pdan.has.it
RE: This is NOT going to get any better for long!
"Another Treo with a sd slot? I cannot think of many ways to upgrade in the future."
Come on now. What makes people upgrade PDAs now. Memory, Speed, Screen rez, Color.
Does one upgrade from a visor Plat to Neo so that he can now use a springboard? No, you could use your springboard with a Platinum. This upgrade give you greater speed, and memory.
An upgrade to a next gen Treo will do the same for treo users.
Sooner than we think?
Why springboards suck anyway
Personally I'd like to see Handspring stay in the PDA industry. I was looking forward to upgrading from my Palm V to a Handspring but now I might wait until they discontinue the product lines and sell them cheap through third parties on eBay.
High N' Dry
RE: High N' Dry
---------------------------------------
When you have a Clie shoved up your mouth, you can only talk in vowels.
RE: High N' Dry
hmm..... maybe because Handspring dropped the whole product line suddenly, that why he "regret thinking of going to Treo". who know when they'll drop the whole Treo line :)
And for sony, they never did drop support for any of their handheld, if your PDA is in trouble you can call them up and ask them to fix it any time any day you want. it's funny that ppl can accept that fact that handspring dropped a whole product line, and can't accept the fact that "some" MS modules can't work with some low end Clie models ... LoL ....
Coyote67 you can keep saying handspring will keep supporting springboard modules, but it'll be a matter of time before they stop selling Visors and announce that springboard is dropped too. Can't you see the trend ?? Viros with sprinboard dropped, Treo with no springboard lives on.
RE: High N' Dry
forget HS
- just some pointless ramblings
RE: forget HS
It is already evident that the PDA situation is not unlike the Apple/PC situation. The Palm OS devices being the simpler, more integrated devices like the Mac, and the Pocket PC devices being the strewn-together bloated bricks that only microsoft could love.
Nobody reads, nobody understands...
3) organize; in that order. So here is where the Treo comes.
Ms. Dubinsky said : "We are a company that is transitioning out of the organizer business and into the communicator business," Dubinsky said. "At some point, we will have transitioned out of the organizer business." This doesn´t mean that they won´t make gadgets that are able to have organizing capabilities.
If you like it, these gadgets will be connected but their primarily function will be TALKING, then RECEIVING/SENDING EMAIL, then WEB SURFING, finally ORGANIZING.
This is what phone makers are trying to do, while succesful they are not perfect products, the Treo is getting near that perfection.
You have to realize (although you don´t like it) that Handspring is going directly to the big market, and not to a bunch of techno freaks like us.
Finally something about the Springboard. It was thought almost four (yes 4 years ago, in 1998).
Technology was bigger, it did great and it´s still does. It set a path. This is a great achievement in electronics.
Again maybe those geeks don´t like some bulky modules but THEY WORK. (And there are not so many substitutes or soon to be...) Stop underestimating the intelligence of inventors, enterprises and consumers.
The Visor line is the SECOND PDA seller in the market. It sold more than all the "Wow!" PPC together...
RE: Nobody reads, nobody understands...
Technology was bigger, it did great and it´s still does. It set a path. This is a great achievement in electronics. "
Great achievement in electronics !? ...... you can say Walkman is a great achievement in electronics, or maybe even Gameboy achievement in electronics, but springboard !? don't make me laugh .....
RE: Nobody reads, nobody understands...
I was talking about EXPANSION... The Springboard was just the beggining...
Flippity floo!
RE: Flippity floo!
Seriously, this treo thing is very expensive, even with a contract. Most of us here, including myself, already have a contract and a phone. One of the reasons why phone sales are dropping like mad is this "replacement market". I got my phone almost for free and now they want me to pay a small fortune for my next one? Forget it.
My current phone supports bluetooth. All I need is a pda that is able to use my phone to send and receive mail.
Personally, I think that any company that is not making any profit and never has should think twice before stepping into a market with players like nokia around. The big guys can afford to spend a lot of cash to get/keep market share.
Jan
As a Newton developer and loyalist, I feel your pain.
No electronic hi-tech product lasts "forever".
The closest to lasting forever is software. If you choose to build on a closed software platform, do not cry when the owner of the platform packs up and goes away.
The closest today are ISA bus, VME bus and S-100, and that is in order of popularity/exinction/that you can still get parts.
In the case of a handheld with a data bus, you can choose springboard or PCMCIA. (there may be some other I don't know of, but these are 'mass market' versions) If you pick springboard, you have, err, well one vendor. If you picked a Compaq, you have a standard interface. And if compaq goes away, picking PCMCIA means you can upsize to a laptop, etc la.
Not to mention with a Compaq/Laptop solution you can even choose to dump windows and run BSD or one of the many different linux versions.
But both of these assume that the need to portablly gather data is worth the extra expense.
I just obtained a handspring and have a visorphone on order. Is it big? Yes. My last cell phone was a 3 watt bag phone, so this is an improvement. When the phone dies/lost/no longer aviable, I'll pick something else. I've opted to move my remote data entry to a web site....so the phone is the 'data entry of last resort' system, and I'm rather sure the 'web access on phone' is here to stay, like the VME bus.
RE: As a Newton developer and loyalist, I feel your pain.
isn't that interesting, a platform that was dead 5 years ago has more functions and more expandable than a platform that's not dead yet.
visors end
Co-op of Springboard Module Manufacturers
I work for a company that derives a majority of its revenue from making a springboard module and I can tell you that we were not pleased that Donna decided to announce this in such a haphazard fashion.
It reminds me of that CEO at Palm who pre-announced a new version of the Palm which instantly froze all existing sales. And then the new product was late, so they totally missed their quarterly numbers. What an idiot. This is the problem with public companies. If they don't grow fast enough, the investors are not happy. So, management takes big risks which more often than not, don't pay off.
I believe their is a viable market, albeit not as large as the consumer market, for the Visor product line. In the vertical industries, like bar code scanners, magnetic card readers, smart card readers, contactless smart card readers, and many others. In fact, Symbol technology licensed the Springboard slot from Handspring for their line of ruggedized PDAs.
http://www.handspring.com/company/pr17.jhtml
There is some value in the product line, just not enough to sustain a publically traded company that needs to grow at 50% a year.
Perhaps a collation of Module Manufacturers should license the design from Handspring and pay them a royalty. The collation would support manufacturer but not high paided CEOs (like Donna) and Handspring would get a royalty stream which would please their investors (high margin, drops right to the bottom line, etc.).
Of course, Symbol might buy the product line and kill it so that only their ruggedized version would be available.
Only time will tell.
OS 5 + Qualcomm = No More Visors
The Springboard, as much as I like the concept for smaller manufacturers of custom product, never did get true mass-market acceptance. When you're making product that has to see 500K unit sales for break-even, you bias strategy towards satisfying the larger market.
Bottom line - Handspring PDA's were going to be toast anyway with Palm OS 5. This announcement is actually doing the community a small favor by not becoming "news" at Palm Source, either by Handspring not being there or an outright announcement that they won't be supporting OS 5.
Still depressing - ah, heck, I lost half a dozen product development opportunities yesterday - but becoming increasingly understandable.
...mike musick
RE: OS 5 + Qualcomm = No More Visors
RE: OS 5 + Qualcomm = No More Visors
The main point of OS 5 is to drop the Motorola Dragonball processor and move to way better ARM-based processors.
RE: TREO called a ''DUD''!
Goodbye, Handspring
What I want is a pocket computer, able to take over as many tasks from my notebook and desktop computers as possible. Not the "less is more/PC companion" vision, I'm looking for better displays, more internal memory, more powerful processors, improved third-party software, removable expansion memory, etc. Wireless connectivity is a must, but data access (Internet, e-mail, and fax) is very different from voice capability!
One reason many people purchase Visors is the Springboard slot. I prefer the size and weight of the M505, but decided there would be more useful "stuff" released that would fit the Springboard slot. The Springboard form factor is unwieldy when you're trying to make handhelds smaller and lighter, but the answer is to adopt "something" that's smaller, not to eliminate expansion!
The Treo has no SD, MMC, CF Card, or other memory expansion. Dumb, dumb, dumb! It’s obsolete before it’s released! They could bump the internal memory up to 32 or 64K, but there goes the battery life. It didn’t take long for me to fill up the Visor’s 8 megs. Fortunately, a Matchbook Drive CF Card adapter along with great VFS software from Kopsis Engineering means I'll never run out of expansion room.
It’s ironic - Handspring doesn’t want to sell “just organizers,” but the limitations built into the Treo relegate it to just that: “an organizer with built-in phone.” It's not a powerful pocket computer since there’s limited storage for programs and documents. Another thing, how do you hold the Treo to your ear and talk, when you’re discussing and looking at a document stored on the Treo?
When Handspring announced free VisorPhones with activation, I visited my local GSM provider (VoiceStream). There is no data-only plan, you pay by the minute for access plus your ISP charges, and VoiceStream isn’t competitive with other carriers on voice. Sprint plans cost about .01 per minute including long distance, and Cricket offers unlimited local-area calling for $32.95 a month. This means the Treo is aimed at ONLY those individuals and companies who can afford very costly per-minute charges. My OmniSky plan costs a dollar a day for unlimited CDPD coverage, which isn’t as widespread but is affordable.
If Handspring believes the Treo is their future, I'm afraid Handspring will disappear into the same Black Hole that’s about to devour K-Mart.
RE: Goodbye, Handspring
To the second poster "get a clie" - Remember that sony is targeting home users and is marketing an "Entertainment Device" - Many of us need a real handheld and not a glorified remote control.
(Watch now as poor Doug is attacked by a pack of Rabid Clie Owners...He bravely fends them off with a Prism in one hand, and a stowaway in the other...)
RE: Goodbye, Handspring
LoL first some one shove a Clie in his mouth to speak in vowel, now someone uses a Prism to fends enemy !? what's happening here ... it's funny how creative people can be.
RE: Goodbye, Handspring
What Jeff hawkins said...
While Handspring is clearly focused on wireless, Hawkins offered no timetable for when the company might exit the traditional handheld business.
"The PDA as we know it will become the middle and low end of the market," he said. However, he added that the company might still be selling handhelds 15 years from now. "Hewlett-Packard still sells calculators," he noted.
WHY?????
Perhaps this will be the same situation for their stock.
Outside the US
The plain fact is the treo works as a communicator, it could do with an sd slot but hey. I cant for the life of me see why anyone would buy any other handheld (apart from the handera 330 which is an exectelentally engeneered device) The sonly line is a joke with no style (sony's products are flashy but few have style. . . i can only think of the mzr90, that has style) I lament the dropping of the springboard but it was too big and too small to compete with sd cards/cf cards/memory stick. Althought it did produce some apsoloutly brilliant products. Jeff hawkins is right when he supposes the palmtop is dead. It is the only reason i'd buy an palmtop now is to read books on, and id' buy a handera - wide screen. But if i can do that on my treo... One thing i would like to see is the saveing of wireless content. This would be a godsend. Btw wireless prices are dropping fast in ireland in a few years a net connection call will be the same price as landline. :) Can't wait for a treo
RE: Outside the US
RE: Outside the US
- GSM 900/1800: that's old stuff. why didn't they get a decent triband GSM chipset?
- GPRS: nice
- Bluetooth: no, just IrDA (ugh).
and all that for how much? $400? better get a small bluetooth enabled GPRS phone and a bluetooth module for my prism (both for less than $400) --- and it will also work with the bluetooth headset and my bluetooth enabled laptop...
Clarification from Jeff Hawkins
Dear Handspring Developer,
There has been some confusion over Handspring's commitment to the organizer business as a result of comments we made in our recent conference call with financial analysts. We are sorry for any confusion we may have caused. I am writing to clarify our position.
Handspring remains committed to producing and supporting our organizer products. We believe that there will be a market for organizers for some time to come. What we intended in our earnings call is that because of our strong belief in the value of wireless communications, we are putting more and more of our development resources into our communicator products. This is true. We are very excited about the Treo communicator and are investing heavily in future communicator products.
The Visor product line has been an incredible success and the Springboard expansion slot supports many great solutions thanks to you. As the Visor product line matures we are consolidating the line into a few key products, Visor Pro, Visor Neo and Visor Edge. Going forward we will continue to support Springboard developers. We will continue to manufacture and sell Visor products as long as there is sufficient demand and we are able to build them. It is natural that as demand dictates we may reduce the number of SKUs and the geographies and channels in which they are available.
Again, I hope this clarifies any confusion we may have caused. Thank you for your support of Handspring in the past and I look forward to continuing to work with you in the future.
Jeff Hawkins
RE: Clarification from Jeff Hawkins
Doh!
This could quite easily kill handspring stone dead. The ONE THING that handspring have done since the start was to keep the same connector (unlike Palm) and the same Springboard Slot, meaning you could upgrade your Visor and keep all your addons - which frequently cost more than the Visor !
They must be STUPID BEYOND BELIEF to let this information leek out. Don't they know that palmtop owners get fanatical about their machines, that we want to feel secure in the future use of them, that we can buy add ons, get them repaired, continue to use our favourite applications?
I have no problem with the communicator concept (I have a Visorphone module), but for heavens sake KEEP THE SPRINGBOARD YOU IDIOTS!
not much hope for treo
forget about it, i want an organizer not another bill. this is a 180 from the open source life style. you can't really say the organizer is going to replace the cell phone when the cell phone gets so small and the pda is useless with a smaller screen.
next we're going to get a publishers clearing house web services sticker book-order two subscriptions and get eight for free?
hahah!
visor
give me some better news.
steve
This sucks since I just got a Visor
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Good luck Handspring