Comments on: Palm Canada Passed on the i705

Since the Palm i705 was released in the U.S. yesterday, some have asked why it also isn't available in Canada. As it turns out, Palm Canada wasn't interested in it, according to an article in The president of Palm Canada, Michael Moskowitz, dismissed the i705 as not enough of an improvement over the VIIx and complained that its wireless network's speed is too slow.
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big surprise

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:06:30 PM #
This guy is out of touch - what a joke!
This really is because of the lack of network infrastrucutre to support the demand. There is no demand because the networks arent there

RE: big surprise
mknowledge @ 1/29/2002 7:17:32 PM #
Actually, I think there may be some truth to your statement... What is the coverage, afterall?

RE: big surprise
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:04:51 AM #
I Live in Toronto Canada and have bever seen or heard of the Palm VII here. I had a friend who was trying to get one and it wasn't available. Why? Becuase there is no network here to support the darn thing. Ditto the i705.

RE: big surprise
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 8:43:44 AM #
Research in Motion (RIM) is based in Waterloo, Ontario and makes the Blackberry wireless email device. Like the VIIx and i705, it uses the Mobitex network and works fine in Canada.

RE: big surprise
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 4:05:05 PM #
No network!? Rogers AT&T runs a Mobitex network. They declined to support the VIIx because they balked at making changes to their billing system.

RE: big surprise
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:57:07 PM #
I live in Toronto and I have owned a Palm VII since they come out. When checking for two
or so years on wireless capability I'm always told the problem is CRTC. I'd like to take
full advantage of the wireles capability of my now out dated Palm VII.

i705 is a boring US only product....

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:10:58 PM #
At least very little interest in Asia anyways. Some handhelds already offer emails and it is not to hard to include vital information on emails.

A very unconvincing machine outside of US....

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:20:30 PM #
Actually, it seems fairly unconvincing within the US. Why bother with a mobile phone AND a Blackberry AND a Palm when you can have a mobile phone AND a Palm i705? Seems like a dumb question. Why not just buy a Treo?

RE: i705 is a NOT boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:33:09 PM #
An analyst from Gartner disagrees:

"The packaging of the machine is extremely good, a sign of the continued evolution of a successful design."

"The unit is priced at $449, which Gartner believes is fair. "

"The i705 represents an attractive option for small businesses and individuals looking for its specific features. Gartner also believes that the i705 is a solid offering for large businesses that use Palm as standard."

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:04:50 PM #
I don't want an all-in-one device. I want to buy the cellular I want, and the PDA I want. I don't want to pay for a phone to get the PDA I want. And if I lose or break one, I don't want to be without the other. I also like my toaster and blender separate.

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:27:43 PM #
"An analyst from Gartner disagrees"

But is he a Palm user?

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
Ed @ 1/29/2002 4:18:50 PM #
> But is he a Palm user?

Probably not. I was astounded when I read this Gartner report this morning. Gartner has often been accused of a strong pro-PPC, anti-Palm bias and I was amazed to read that it had anything good to say about the i705 at all.

News Editor

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 6:39:06 PM #
what happens if you travel outside the continental US - is that something i705 users are not expected to do anymore? you're dead in the water in Europe with this thing...

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 7:58:50 PM #
You're dead in the water in Europe with pretty much any wireless device from the United States. Since when is this news? We may as well start bashing the i705 for not coming with chopsticks, you'd be dead in Asia without them.

Does the RIMM offer WORLDWIDE Coverage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:04:43 PM #
I see th i705 is US only, but what about RIMM? Can I use RIMM while rafting in the Congo or trekking the Sahara or cruising the Nile or sledding at the North Pole???

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:45:53 PM #
The point I was trying to make is that this is the only product that Palm developes that could not be sold to anywhere except the US. I therefore strongly disagree with the post that US wireless products have to be this way.

My Tri-band phone works anywhere in the world with the exception of probably Japan and Korea. If Palm really want to further develop its market share IN THE WORLD they need to come up with something that can be used anywhere in the World. Get it?

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:04:05 PM #
The name of the company is Research in Motion. The acronym is RIM, not RIMM.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:11:30 PM #
I just really hate "Know-It-Alls". Were you the annoying kid in school who always sat in the front and corrected other kids answers in class for the teacher???

I referred to it as "RIMM" because that is the company's STOCK SYMBOL. People often do this with MSFT, INTC, CSCO, etc. Please don't be so quick to correct other people - because you are not half as smart as you think you are. Thank you.

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:34:16 PM #
Yes, the ticker is RIMM. And yes many many people use the stock tickers for companies like MSFT, CSCO, BEAS, HWP.

So, don't correct people without using that noodle noggin.

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:04:40 AM #
I called it RIM in a post last week and someone snottily told me the name of the company was RIMM.

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:06:52 AM #
> Can I use RIMM while rafting in the Congo or trekking the Sahara or
> cruising the Nile or sledding at the North Pole???

No, but neither are you going to get wireless access in most of those places no matter what you use.

Returning to reality, there is a wireless divide between the US and the rest of the world. With the exception of the very few places in the US that you can get GSM, no wireless handheld is worldwide.

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
parb33 @ 1/30/2002 1:47:15 AM #
>I just really hate "Know-It-Alls". Were you the
>annoying kid in school who always sat in the front >and corrected other kids answers in class for the >teacher???
>I referred to it as "RIMM" because that is the >company's STOCK SYMBOL. People often do this with >MSFT, INTC, CSCO, etc. Please don't be so quick to >correct other people - because you are not half as >smart as you think you are. Thank you.

Getting a little defensive, aren't we? Most people use stock ticker symbols to abbreviate the names of companies; since RIMM is longer than RIM an unbiased observer would have to conclude that you're either strange or lying. The guy who corrected you was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you'd simply made a mistake.

RE: i705 is a boring US only product....
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/1/2002 10:17:44 PM #
I completely agree! As a Palm user in Asia, the i705 offers nothing useful for me here and now. Palm released a product that needs an infrastructure that my part of the world doesn't widely support. I think that's the whole point of Canada's not taking up the i705. Palm must have known this from the start, and perhaps that's why it's been hyped so much.

Handspring has the advantage with the Treo, and it's interesting to note that the man from Palm Canada was quoted as saying Palm hasn't dropped plans for building a voice-capable wireless PDA. Palm is playing catch-up yet again.

Perhaps Palm should have listened to Mr. Palm Canada before they embarked on the development for the i705. This is all hindsight of course. Maybe the people at Palm didn't think they'd need to go global so soon. This just tells me that they've been caught napping once again. Hopefully for Palm the US market gets enough sales, cause they won't be able to sell this thing outside of the US.

The next Palm CEO!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:48:30 PM #
We can only hope. Someone within Palm that can recognize their products are sucking air, amazing.


I.M. @ 1/29/2002 3:08:55 PM #
Perhaps this guy from Palm Canada may be looking for a job soon. Who in his right mind would say something like that about a new product from his own company even if it is true?

i705 is a looser..
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:15:20 PM #
yeah! at leat somebody has guts!
the i705 is only for the US where the wireless industry is many years behind Europe and Japan

Aint no Company Man
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:27:07 PM #
Wow, this guys aint no "Company Man". He's got a lot of balls to speak the truth. I'll be surprised if they don't axe him.

RE: Ouch!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:32:13 PM #
Whether its true or not, I see him leaving to "pursue other opportunities" in the near future. You don't diss your own company's products to a reporter. Remember Yankowski dissing the VIIx? Notice the way he was fired? Though not fast enough in my book.

e-mail him!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:55:45 PM #
I think we should all e-mail him and tell him what a dumb ass he is!

RE: e-mail him!
Foo Fighter @ 1/29/2002 4:27:44 PM #
Yes, very mature. Let's e-mail him and tell him what a dumb ass he is for voicing his opinion!

RE: Ouch!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 7:32:20 PM #
I don't know why Handspring and Palm have these
kind of people as executives. No wonder their
stocks are where they are.

Handspring's CEO was dumb. One of my co-workers
wanted to buy a HS, I told him they just
said they are going to discontinue Visor. And
he decided not to get one.

As this Palm guy, I would fire him if I
am Palm's CEO.

RE: Ouch!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:51:49 PM #
I tried a number of times to speak to a corporate sales agent on Monday re Canadian sales of the i705.

Dispite leaving a polite request for info, the agent did not bother to call back. Too bad, but now I understand why.

I'm really pissed about this, and will be leaving a polite message with the CEO (although I'm sure that there will be 50 flunkies screening the information) explaining why I feel that this is a bad idea.

The key is to spend five minutes and explain (voice or print) what the problem is. Calling someone a jerk - or worse-, even (especially) if I agree with the sentiment will be useless.

Handspring Job?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:27:09 PM #
Maybe he is resigning and going to run Handspring Canada and roll-out the Canada TREO??

RE: Ouch!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:09:24 PM #
Well I managed to speak to the Canadian sales rep for Palm, and she just rehashed the company line. It's too slow and no one in Canada wants it and there is no network support.

I pointed out that it uses the same support as the RIM Blackberry, so she dropped that arguement, and went back to the fact that the RIMnet is too slow.

We went back and forth on this, but the upshot is that they have "been told" by their big corporate clients that they don't want the i705.

Unfortunately, no one asked me! looking at Blackberries

2 Problems With That Idea...

raak @ 1/29/2002 3:37:54 PM #
I live in Canada, and it is very interesting that Mr. Moskowitz would say something like "they ain't much better than the VII series" considering the Palm VII devices have _never_ been available in Canada. As far as I know, there have been numerous promises to bring the device here, but we have never been able to legitimately get (or operate) a Palm VII (or now, the i705) up in Canada.

Needless to say, RIM is a Canadian company, and so obviously the infrastructure is there to support the i705 (the devices work on the same Mobitex network). And as far as demand goes, I see people on the subway constantly using their RIM devices. At the very least, I'm sure everyone in Waterloo uses one ;)

It's too bad. Canadians rarely get much choice when these types of devices are released. At least the Treo works on GSM / GPRS, which we have up here... Perhaps when the Treos are successful, that will convince Palm to change their minds.


RE: 2 Problems With That Idea...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:58:41 PM #
the treo will be launched by two GSM carriers in Canada (take a guess).

RE: 2 Problems With That Idea...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/4/2002 1:59:55 PM #
I live in Canada and own a Palm VIIx. No service available but you can get the VII's.

I am curious

digilaw @ 1/29/2002 3:51:58 PM #
Being an American I am not sure the following is correct and I am curious to hear from people who live in other countries like the guy above. From what I know, Canada uses the global GSM standard and their operators *may* have either started or finished GRPS/3G upgrades. If so then the i705 offers little or no bennifit to Canadian mobile telecom consumers who can get the same service and functionality on much cheaper devices/mobile phones. This would be true in parts of Europe and Asia where GRPS/3G is a reality or soon will be. I would appreciate the international community chiming in and telling me if I am right or wrong. Thanks!

RE: I am curious
raak @ 1/29/2002 3:58:27 PM #
Actually, Canada uses the same GSM standard as the US. I think it's partially because of Canadian partnerships with US companies, and also partially because I think the GSM frequency used in Europe and Asia (among others, I think one is 900 MHz) would interfere with other devices such as portable phones already in the North American market.

We have some GPRS devices on the market already, but the only useful devices are the RIMs as far as mobile email goes. Wireless internet still kinda sucks. The only other way to get data access is through the same hodgepodge of devices you guys in the States have already. I think having the i705 up here would introduce some competition to the RIM for wireless data. The Treo would just add to that.

Hope that helps!


RE: I am curious
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 4:09:33 PM #
I'm in the UK....we are not happy over here.
You have your gadgets in the shops over here. But nothing to support them.

The GPRS is coming. That's true. But at a price

The whole thing is a lot of promises from companies and little follow up....

They should get their fingers out of their *%$"* pretty fast, if you ask me....

RE: I am curious
digilaw @ 1/29/2002 5:11:58 PM #
Thanks for the feedback. So you guys are kind of in the same boat we are in the US. Though we are still far behind in GSM services like SMS and push services and still there is no true bluetooth phone here. I had to import my r520 from the UK and trick Voicstream into giving me a sim card. That was almost 6 months ago and still there is no true bluetooth phone here, only battery upgrades.

RE: I am curious
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 5:31:18 PM #
hey....getting there. (me from uk again)
So you have the bluetooth phone....What about your handheld. What are you using?

I will get the sd-slot card as soon as it comes in the shops over here...(or anywhere else in the world).
Don't really understand why they went with that daft big board on the back from TDK. I wouldn't have that thing in my pocket.

Have people forgotten the beauty of handhelds already? You can fit it in any pocket and use it wherever you are.

the 705 just don't fit in with this philosophy. I want a sleek sexy machine which is USEABLE. Not some piece of %$"&*^ the i705.

write back here palm-people, and maybe we can sort this thing out.
My m500 is fitting with the sleek sexy looks and is useable. I miss the bluetooth and other "wireless" appz.


RE: I am curious
mtg101 @ 1/29/2002 9:16:28 PM #
Actually in the UK GPRS is readilly available to the general public. OK... so one of the main networks to offer it doesn't support Palms yet due to a technical issue with connections... but GPRS is live over here. Honest.

But more to the point, everyone over here in Europe has a mobile phone. It's a culture thing. Everyone from 10 years old upwards has at least one phone. And an annoying 'personalized' ringtone. We're used to wireless voice / text communication devices that are cheap, even free, that have coverage in most of the world! I think that's the big difference between the countries, the culture - not the technology.


Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos

RE: I am curious
digilaw @ 1/29/2002 10:47:33 PM #
Hey UK guy, I am currently using a Clie n760 and I imported the Japanese bluetooth module. However, it took me a week to figure out how the dratted driver works since it was in Japanese and I have an American Clie. Also, I find the module crashes regularly. Russell, that is how I envisoned it. I was in the Phillippines and Singapore a year ago. In those two contries its like a madness. Everyone has a phone, like you said, and they are constantly texting. I disagree that its the culture instead of the technology. I think its the tech. In the US we are fractionalized into non-cooperating standards. In fact every network type is represented here and has a decent percentage of wireless subscribers. In Asia as well as in Europe I believe, the GSM standard is, well, the standard. SMS takes off in the rest of the word because you can send text to practically anyone with a phone. Not to mention that even Voicestream, our leading GSM provider, dosen't allow me to text outside of the US. I have a cousin in the Phillippines who can text with her friend who lives in Montreal. When my aunt came to visit from Singapore her 8810 (I think that was the model) was roaming on Voicestream and she could text back and forth with her home. However I, as a Voicetream subscriber, cannot even text to Mexico. Go figure.

RE: I am curious
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:17:04 AM #
Why send a text message on a phone keyboard when you can press a button to make a call? People in North America are just too busy for this kind of thing. We want something that is functional and make us more productive, not the other way around. Its a culture thing. Gadgetry always catch on in the Japanese and other Asian markets because adults get bored of their toys quite easily.

RE: I am curious
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/1/2002 10:34:25 PM #
A very juvenile response coming from an "adult". Please don't make comments on the usefulness of technology you've never even used.

I use SMS all the time when I'm stuck in a meeting to coordinate with my staff. When GSM signal strength in patchy areas is too weak to get a clear voice connection, I send an SMS message that a person can clearly understand.

I think people here and in Europe have adopted SMS so well because they see the value in it. It's cheaper than a voice call, and for some things like sending a contact a phone number and the like, it's much easier than explaining by phone. It is funny that people here have taken so well to using a phone keypad to type, and even I thought that was a complete hassle before I got into using it, but it's just the same thing as learning to use Graffiti.

RE: I am curious
johnbartley @ 2/2/2002 2:10:19 AM #
Canada, like its other North American neighbors, uses a variety of cellular systems.
It is not a monolithic GSM nation, instead using both TDMA and CDMA as well.
My Samsung SPH-i300 PalmPhone works rather well when I visit, thank you very much.

for details thanks!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:55:06 PM #
I've just seen you guys getting your new 705 in the states. I'm sitting in th UK, and we won't be getting this machine over here. Just as well. The palm looks HORRIBLE.
Something like a square m100 with a blob on the top.

I own a M500, with various expansions. Does the job great, without any sync problems (fingers crossed).

Be looking forward to that bluetooth card coming.

Please palm-people, if you read this....get a grip.
From me as a fellow are digging your own grave....who in their right mind buys this junk?

Not me. No Thanks


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 5:32:40 PM #
Is Michael Moskowitz simply an alias for Michael MACE???


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 5:54:55 PM #
Always nice to hear from an idiot. You've got such pointless, empty headed things to say. And you've sprung some kind of leak. Must be from the big hole in your head.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:07:54 PM #
That's not nice to call me an idiot. I can buy and sell you many times over, my friend.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:36:55 PM #
> I can buy and sell you many times over, my friend.

Welcome to the 21st century.

It's nice to hear from living fossils and bigots.

FYI: Slavery has been banned in most countries of the world for over a 100 years.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:03:02 AM #
For the guy who can buy and sell.. sure, and you have all the time in the world to make stupid posts. I guess each word from you would be worth $1000.00, and your every sentence priceless. So we add it all up and still come out that it was worth zip!

Just an excuse for stupidty...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:39:55 PM #
I think this is just a cheap excuse. I would love the wireless ability and my co-workers. Who is this guy kidding? Stupid companies like these are what holds back everyone else. These guys running these companies seem to care more about the bottom line and not really progressing technology in Canada or anywhere else. It seems that all advanced users are getting tired of the lack of companies not listening to their customers.

I spoke to a co-worker of mine who uses a PocketPC. He didn't mind the 2 hour battery in the ipaq when he uses it alot. He compared it to a laptop battery. I told him about palm os devices and the batteries, that it would be hard for me to be recharge everyday my device if I switched. I'm getting very tired and I think I'll hold on to my Visor platinum until os5 comes around & new devices.



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