Comments on: Handango Opens Software Store for Handspring

You're right. I have worked with Handango for a couple of years and when they started their terms were wonderful, flexible and they would do anything to get developers to sign up. Now that they got most developers their terms suck. 30% comission fee? give me a break!

Try selling it on your own.... it's hard i bet. people want to come to one place and check out palm software... i think like only %5 of people with palms even GO looking for software besides what comes install on the palm.

Their contract doesn't preclude you selling and promoting it on your own company site.

Please.. spare us, with your over inflated palm software prices.

> Please.. spare us, with your over inflated palm
> software prices.

Sorry, but charging developers a 30% comission fee is absurd. I don't know what PalmGear charged, but 10% to 20% is more than enough. Basically means I'll be bypassing Handango to make sure the developers get their fair share. Developers have to make some money off of these things if you want them to support these apps. A 30% markup just to stick a downloadable file on a website with a payment method is ridiculous.

If Palm and Handspring are profiting off of this little scam, they should be ashamed of themselves. One has to assume that Palm and handspring are, since they probably give this software store deal out to the highest bidder. Essentially that means they're taking money out of the pockets of the "little guy" developers that made them successful.

>> Their contract doesn't preclude you selling and promoting it on your own company site.

>Don't think so? Have a look for yourself. It's getting very close to that.

Agreed. Still, it is a voluntary contract. Unfortunately, there's only two real games in town (Handango and PalmGear), and one seems bent on domination (as is their right). They are free to set any terms they like, true. But at some point, the developers will start finding or developing alternative outlets. I hope they do, rather than get out of the business.

>Now that they got most developers their terms
>suck. 30% comission fee? give me a break!

Actually depending on the sales volume their fee can rise to over 60% for an online distribution channel.

I'm also a Palm OS software developer and have been using PalmGear and Handango for my apps. Palmgear charges 20%. Handango charges either 20% for apps purchased from their site while 25% for those purchased from Handango-powered sites, e.g., Tucows, etc.

Actually, I've considered submitting apps to other sites that charges little or none at all. Among them are http://www.palmvenue.com.

This rise in the rates that PG and Handango had left other developers no choice but to charge higher prices for their apps therefore it's the consumers who is affected in the end. I can't blame them for chargin this much. They have to get money for maintenance costs and payroll you know.

I just hope these new sites will become successful so small developers like me will have more channels to showcase my apps.

This is in response to the following post:
Consider other sites...
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/1/2002 9:35:29 PM

This person was completely mistaken about the commission percentages that Handango & Palm Gear charge. The following info can be verified on the respective websites:

Handango charges 30% commission for software purchased through their website or through their partners (Palm, Yahoo, etc.). The commission percentage for software sold through the partners increases if a developer sells more than $10,000 in software per year through them.

Handango charges 15% commission for software purchased directly from a developer's website through a Handango Powered Store. Therefore, this is the best option if you want to give the most back to the developer.

Palm Gear charges 25% commission. This was recently increased from 20%.

>Handango charges either 20% for apps purchased from their site while 25% for those purchased from Handango-powered sites, e.g., Tucows, etc.

>Handango charges 30% commission for software purchased through their website or through their partners (Palm, Yahoo, etc.). The commission percentage for software sold through the partners increases if a developer sells more than $10,000 in software per year through them.

Ahhh, OK. So it's actually *higher*. =)

I'm no developer but it's interesting to know these things. A look at what's hapenning inside the "industry"

Flying off on a tangent ...

www.eurocool.com seems like a good site too, I'd probably go there if PGHQ went offline.

Why do you think Handango is on top?...if they take so much from developers? How can they survive? It is because few complain, or have reason to complain,you want your software to be with the best!
PalmGear had plenty of opprtunity to out-do Handango for the Palm contract, they couldn't and barely tried, money had nothing to do with it. Money is a easy answer for someone to use to complain

I would have to agree. Handago is a poor site compared to Palmgear. I don't even go to handago or for the most part Palm's software site. But, I do go quite regularly to palmgear.com for software updates and new apps.

"I couldn't disagree more. I WAS a very loyal PalmGear supporter. I had been buying stuff from them before they went to their current site layout. After the switch, I never, ever got notified of software updates."

That is unusual. I have continually gotten notification of software updates, when the author has requested PGHQ to send one out. It is the author's responsiblity to request the notice be sent out, and some authors are better then others at doing so. As far as unreturned voicemail, I don't need to leave voicemail, because when I call their number, I almost always get the question answered. I have purchased over 100 software programs from PGHQ, along with various cases and accessories, and had only two problems.. both of which Kenny West or his staff fixed immediately. I have been extremely happy with my relationship with Palmgear and recommend them daily.
PGHQ has always done me well, and I think I'll stick with the one that brought me to the ball. :)

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

I personally find PalmGear to be much more easily navigated than handango. I've had occasional problems with developers who sold software they should have tested better first, and have gotten immediate refunds from PalmGear. Their customer service is always, always prompt.

Handango on the other hand, where I've only bought a few items, has the crappiest customer service in the business. You have to fill out their form, then wait 48 hours for a response, which in my sorry experience, never comes. I've written email after email to them, to no avail. I finally heard back from someone named Seth who asked me what the problem was, and i told him to refer to the case number Handango had assigned me and look it up for himself, and that was the end of hearing from anyone there. I eventually had to look their number up on Switchboard and call them to get the answer (but not the apology) that I wanted, but the whole thing took 5 weeks. They will never get my business unles I have no alternative.

I am thinking the same thing too. That was a little big shock for me (as a Palm developer who sale software on both sites) when Palm 'jump ship'. I visit Palmgear everyday but rarely visit Handango. It doesn't mean that I put new software or update my software everyday on PalmGear. I think most developers are submitting their software to Palmgear. I can get the idea of what 'other developers' are doing (I have to watch my competitors too.) I gave up easily when I navigate Handango's site.

1) Only the big bucks can turn things around. Palm was in cash cruch. This might explain it!!!

2) Handango was charging 20% transaction then up to 30% right before/after the announcement.

This is a free market so that we can have our own choise. I am not sure how it impact my net sales. In my case, I use everyone as my online portals. The following is just my case, your may vary...

I listed every titles I have on Handango, Plamgear, Kagi, and some other small on-line store. The fact strike me is: Even Palm teamed up with Handango, my major sales is coming from Kagi. If you know Kagi, you should know that they don't promot any Palm software at all. They are simply a PayPal or BidPal like purchase agent.

I couldn't disagree more with prev. poster. Palmgear's payment is the worst. Sometime it let you fear that they already gone under and you will recv. any check from them.

Recently Palmgear picks on developers who does not sale their software (list only) on their site. I understand they have to pay the bandwidth but they also need the net traffic. Not with so many Palm loyal developers sumbit their work to Palmgear, Palmgear would not have today. I think they forgot the old days.

Handango 30% takes are the highest among all my on-line saler. They will promot your product if you have a popular title and you will get more enterprize customers.

Kagi send out monthly report on 23rd. of every month, you recv. the check on 15th of next month. They haven't miss or delay a check (more than 40 months so far). They charge 8 to 17% depends on your unit price. Their tech. support is barely exist. So if you want to use them, your web site need to work a lot on FAQ's.

I wish there is a potal that has Handango's service, Palmgear's web interface, Kagi's reliable, and only charge 20% or less.

In terms of Handango vs. Palm Gear, if you want to give the most back to the developer, then you should buy their software from the following stores in this order:

1) Buy directly from the developer's website, even if they are selling through a Handango Powered store. In this case, the developer is charged a 15 or 20% commission. 15% if they choose to only sell through Handango. 20% if they choose to sell through Handango and other methods.

2) Next would be Palm Gear, because the developer is charged a 25% commission.

3) The last would be through the Handango website or any of it's partners (Palm, Yahoo, Tucows, etc.), because the developer is charged a 30% commission.

Option one is always the best, as Handango is able to do things that make life much easier for the developer, such as generate custom registration codes for each user. Handango is also very prompt in paying developers each month.

Option two may be lower in commission than option three, but there may be other things to consider, such as Palm Gear not paying developers in a timely manner.

Developers can make special arrangements with Handango so that they can sell through Handango on their own websites (as opposed to through the Handango website or through any of the Handango partners). When developers make these special arrangements with Handango, they are charged lower commissions (15 or 20% as mentioned above) for all purchases made directly through the developers' websites. However, if a customer buys from Handango's website, for example, the developer is still charged the higher 30% commission. That's why it's better for the developer if you buy directly from their website.

These lower commissions are mentioned on Handango's site at:

http://www.handango.com/Partner.jsp?siteId=1

They call it the Affiliate Program and the relevant information is located near the bottom of the page. They don't mention the exact commission percentages, as they ask developers to contact them for more info. But if you wish to verify the numbers I've given, you can e-mail them.

If Handango is able to charge lower commissions for handling sales through a developer's website, then all the better! Palm Gear needs to stay competitive and offer a similar option. Why would a developer choose to sell through Palm Gear at their website when Palm Gear doesn't even try to be competitive in that respect? Is there a reason that you are so adamant about defending them?

Palm Gear needs to get with the program and improve their offerings to developers. Only then can healthy competition spur both Palm Gear and Handango onto continually improving their services.

Also, your analysis of Handango's commission structure is completely off. Handango doesn't charge a 60% commission for sales up to $100,000. The 60% commission is only for sales ABOVE $100,000. You need to re-read the partnering agreement and interpret it correctly. For example, if a developer sells $100,000 through Handango's Value Added Channels, they will be charged 30% commission on the first $10,000; 40% commission on the next $40,000; and 50% commission for the last $50,000. But of course, this is only for software sold through Value Added Channels (Handango's partners sites - Palm, Yahoo, etc.).

Software sold through Handango's website will always be charged a 30% commission, and software sold through a developer's own website will always be charged a 15 or 20% commission.

So, once again, it is best for developers if you buy directly from their websites.

It's true that eSellerate and PayPal charge lower commissions/fees than Handango. It's a trade-off between the features you want and the commissions you wish to pay. Handango has the ability to automatically generate custom dynamic registration codes for users, something that I consider worth paying an extra 5% in commissions for. But if you don't need that, then other sales methods, with lower commissions, would fit your situation better.

But I thought this was a thread just comparing Handango to Palm Gear. Between those two, Handango wins hands down, for all the reasons mentioned above.

I have been a loyal user of Palmgear for 4+ years now. It's one of 2 sites (along with PalmInfoCenter) that I check regularly each day. But, after reading the above I figure'd I'd check out Handango to see what all the fuss is about.

My first impression: Wow, it is so much faster! My chief complaint with PalmGear is how long it takes to load each page. Handango's night & day difference in speed was almost enough to make me think about jumping ship - almost...

But then I noticed Handango's major weakness. I check out PalmGear every day because I want to be kept abreast of every latest Palm software release & update (a much more difficult task than it used to be!) Palmgear lists way more new releases & updates by far. Of course a lot of it is junk, like separate listings for every single database for a given program - (Just list the program once, and say "Lots of databases available" for crying outloud!) But even so, just over this weekend there were several new releases/updates that I was interested in (eg HandyShopper) that were were listed in PalmGear but not on Handango.

I also noticed that there tended to be far fewer customer reviews of individual software titles on Handango than on Palmgear. Those customer reviews are very helpful, but only if there's enough customers to actually write the reviews!

One other gripe that applies to both sites -

Has anyone noticed that in the past month or so, PalmGear eliminated from their listings links to the developer's web site? I guess they decided it was a bad idea to encourage their customers to leave their site, but it was very helpful when I wanted to get more information on a given piece of software. Now I have to download a file I may not want, check the readme, & cut & paste the developer's web page address. Handango also does not have links to developers' sites.

Anyway, I am going to stay a loyal Palmgear user. I met Kenny West once at PC Expo, and he was the nicest guy. The Handango reps were creeps who were only interested in what I could do for them, and not the other way around. So I'm rooting for Kenny & Palmgear!

--Charlie

Why do you think Handango is on top?...if they take so much from developers? How can they survive? It is because few complain, or have reason to complain,you want your software to be with the best! PalmGear had plenty of opprtunity to out-do Handango for the Palm contract, they couldn't and barely tried. Money had nothing to do with it. That is a easy answer for someone to use to complain.