Comments on: Sony Introduces Two Models with Keyboards, MP3 Players

The same as US's T-series

If the news is not from this web site, I would
probably say this is fake. :-)

Unbelievable. Sony do a great job again.

Anything else?
I shouldn't think so.

WOW

Cheers,
Jan

A mobile will get you the same speed a 56 K will provide. This is too slow for most needs.

2. I really see only a very small niche for these palms. There will be even more software problems than with the older Sony hirez screens.

3. I would buy one with an ARM processor and Palm OS 5, UMTS connection built-in.

There are basically 2 types of applications, those that takes advantage of the big softgrafitti screen, probably most of those are written and maintained by sony, so they should know how to clean up their own mess. And those that doesnt take advantage of the big screen, for those apps, the grafitti area will always be visible.

anyways it's not like this device will be running OS 5, so there should be no OS 5 migration compatibility problems too.

Don't be an fool, remember that Palm makes the OS, if it weren't for Palm we would not have our Clies.

-----------------------------
I love my Clie, and I love Palm. Do you?

Yen/US$ = 128.6

W/Camera - Y 59,800 = $ 465
W/o Camera - Y 49,800 = $ 387

This is Japan. Prices in the US (if they ever get there, or should I say WHEN) should be closer to 499 and 399.

Nicer picture and more info here in Japanese!

Dragonball SuperVZ�i66MHz�j
320�~480dots�A65,536 Color
1 Megapixel Camera

PEGA-MSB1 Memory Stick Bluetooth

HandEra's screen API was completely different, and separated the current resolution from the API functions, making it more elaborate but also more flexible.

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This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

>HandEra's screen API was completely different, and separated the current resolution from the API functions, making it more elaborate but also more flexible."

I've done development with the sony hi-res API and its a snap. An app that i just did detects if its a Sony w/hi-res and then uses the hi-res functions - which are identical to the Palm API functions except the name of each function has a 'HR' prefixed to the function name - virtually a mirror of every Palm OS graphics function. Any x and y paremeters must of course change to reflect 320 x 320, but that is all - nothing new for Palm programmers to learn in order to implement. I dont see how you could beat this. You could come up with a more flexible open ended approach that deals with different resolutions (which i expect is what we'll see in PalmOS 5.0) but for now, the Sony approach has been elegant, easy, no compatibility problems.

I guess it doesn't matter to you, all you care is Sony is using something not standard in Palm OS, so you could go on some online forum and post it for 100 times.

No I don't agree with you :P There is not other better ways to do this right now, sony wants higher res for photo and stuff like that, so they made a new API just for their high res, and so happen the function call of those high res is basically the same as the old Low res.

example:
Low Res:
DrawScreen(a,b,c)
High Res:
HRDrawScreen(a,b,c)

How hard would it be for Sony to redirect their High Res Function calls back to low res function call when palm OS 5 comes out? very easy, they always take the same parameter of data.

But the worst 'hack' of the OS comes from PalmSource itself: Palm OS 4.0. The 'money people' at Palm decided that, although $$ could be made by charging users of older machines for this upgrade, they knew that m5xx users wouldn't shell $40 just to fix bugs in the device they just bought. They also new that - with a price war going between them, Handspring and Sony - that profit margins were tight so they weren't about to make the upgrade free to m5xx users.

Their solution? Tell everybody that '4.1 is just for older devices - m5xx users dont need this cause its the same'. They blatantly mislead everybody in an attempt to save $$$ and the result is that users get screwed with software that craps out and developers get screwed with the blame and responsibility (and cost - it took me 2 wks to work around OS 4.0 bugs) of finding work-arounds.

Sony 'hacked' the OS??? Please!!!

PS - The above can be verified as fact by any member of Palms Dev program - there is a ROM file called 'paltform41_m505enUS.rom' (it may still be on their sit - im not sure)that confirms that they originally planned to release 4.1 for m505 users (this is the only Palm rom file i know of where this has happened), before the PalmSource management decided not to release this in order to save money. I love Palm OS and will continue to develop for it - but screw whatever idiot at PalmSource was responsible for this - YOU COST MY COMPANY $$$$$$!!!!!!

I haven't looked at the handspring SDK. How does this work if you wish to uses both standard and hi-res at the same time?? With the Sony API, this is easy. And yes - somtimes you do wish to use both - keeping with standard for basic lines and interface element and only going to hi-res where the detail would be noticeable to Clie users.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J19C3238

Thanks

New Sony is really a jewel (err... how to write? ;]P).
However it will take a lot of time to reach here (where "here" is <>japan).
Since I need a nice handheld now I'll buy a 515 that's almost half weight.
Yes, there's not comparison between these two, Palm one is lower; if I have to choose now, in a shop, I'd buy Sony but at the moment here in italy there's 515 (well, bad Sony strategy still didn't bring here any model!).

Good work to Sony, anyway... :]

It is all too likely that the first few batches will have all kinds of disappointing glitches. Just sit back and wait a little while. "Be cool, dude. Be cool."

Palm please brainwash me like sony did anytime you like.

Thanks for your info.

But I think I'll wait to see the real thing before saying ut'll fall apart. I think sony made some even more complicated gadgets than this before, so falling apart should not be an issue.

The camera is attached to the keyboard directly, so basically there are 2 parts

first part:
Screen

second part:
MS Slot
Camera
keyboard

First part and second part are attached together with a hinge that flips for about 180 degrees.

My Sony camcorder has an LCD screen with a hinge that folds out for viewing by the operator. The screen also swivels 180 degrees for viewing by those being recorded. Sony has sold an awful lot of camcorders and seems to have the hinge and swivel thing worked out.

I think it's important to keep perspective here. $385 is based on conversion from Yen. It is NOT the "US$ Price." Electronics are generally cheaper in Japan than they'll be in the US when introduced. Combine that with the price drop on the N760, and it looks like the NR70 should release in the US at about $450, with the NR70V at either $500 or $550. What's more, the m515 will likely drop in price to, say, $350. So there will likely be devices for EVERY taste at many price points. Variety is the benefit of capitalism.

But, naturally, some idiot sees the new Sony as an opportunity to slam Palm. Perhaps you should read the above thread that states that 1) these new models are VERY impressive, 2) they WON'T be the device for EVERYONE, and 3) the whole "Palm vs. Sony" controversy should end. Or perhaps you should read the article on Brighthand, which says essentially the SAME THING.

Like I say, let's keep some perspective here...

Ok, till now I was more than happy with my M505 and none of the Sony Clie models would do it for me, also due to the Memorystick question...but, I think it is about time to seriously re-think my 'strategy' now.

Luckily, I live in Asia and getting one should be no more than 2 weeks.... I might just go for it.

The funny part about this is the head of Sony's U.S. Clié PR team will almost certainly read this and probably give me a call about it.

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News Editor

The DraagonBall Super VZ is running at 66 MHz

- Eugene

The jogdial :)

Whilst I saw it in the pics, I didn't in the text I was looking up so I forgot to list it. Sorry!

The NRV70V is for the Japanese market, so they usually have more flash mem for their characters (kanji), (I read somewhere that they include a dictionary).

Also the hinge never ever flips for more than 180 (maybe 160) degrees, that's why the screen can be rotated too.

Obvious, no?

Sony confused me and I think I confused a lot of other people. Take some confusion and pass it along, that's my new motto.

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News Editor

Go to this URL... and look at the Bluetooth picture, see the little light on it that's lite up when it's inside the NR70??? it DOES Stick out!

http://www.clieclub.jp/clie_exbit/pages/nr086_jpg.htm

For other NR70 pictures, (REAL LIFE PICTURES) not "model" pictures go here:
http://www.clieclub.jp/clie_exbit/index.html

Damn pity the InfoStick doesn't fit entirely inside the device - but at least it's coming out now.

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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk

At 16.7 (D) mm the unit seems to be about as thick or thin (take your pick) as the M50x series with the standard leather cover.

Definitely NOT too thick unless you like to use your M50x without the cover...!

Clie needs to appeal to first time users and this certainly has the "Wow factor" to do that.

I think (as an M505 owner) that this device is the one to woo people who would not have thought of buying a PDA. Kudos to Sony, I think this is great. Just wish Palm would produce a "wow-factor" device to compete......

mrscarey

palmist and visionary

I've never seen an ARM based thin form factor PDA yet, and none of those color PDA out there with ARM processors has "Long" Battery life.

A Newton using a 200MHz ARM CPU has a battery life of about 8-9 hours contious use. It doesnt have a color screen and 8-9 hours is counted with backlit off, so I'd expect a color screen PDA with ARM cpu will have a battery life of about 3 hours.

Just because there haven't been any doesn't mean there won't be any. The primary reason the developers of the Palm OS passed on ARM chips all those years ago was the performance-to-power ratio wasn't very good. But a lot of progress has been made over the years. The processors coming out now based on ARM's designs have a much better ratio. Intel's just announced ARM-based XScale processors use less than half the power of their current StrongARM SA-1110 one. They can do things like scale the performance as high or low as necessary in a single clock cycle. That's why Palm/PalmSource have decided that now is the time to move to the new processors. Using them before now would have been a mistake but they are finally ready to be the heart of handhelds that are both powerful and run for a long time without being weighed down with large batteries.

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News Editor

Zaurus is expected to release MI-E25DC with built-in camera. Built-in camera is very popular in Japan started with J-Phone's 'shameiru' - email attached with picture taken with the built-in camera in cell phone.

For those who worry that there are too many moving parts, worry not, the clamshell phones are very popular here and the quality is very good. Almost all the new feature-packed cell phones are foldable/clamsheel type. The Japanese manufacturers are very good with it. Most of us have clamshell cell phones and I have not heard anyone complains (including myself - used it for more than 1.5 years). For example ALL the FOMA (3G) phones are clamshell type.

- Eugene

The Motorola ARM-based Dragonball is the same physical size at the VZ. I think many of the TI ARM-based chips are even lower power. Almost all of the ARM chips have a much higher MIPS/milliWatt rating, so at the same performance level, they will consume less power. The Newton was a battery hog because they needed to run the CPU full tilt even to do hw recognition badly. OTOH, most Palm apps leave the CPU idling. A higher MIPS CPU can spend even more time idling. Most of the battery power will then be consumed by the backlight... just like now.

If you are that concern about "gaming" then buy a freaking game-boy. Leave the grown-up toys to the grown-up.

looking at the side picture, it's impossible to flip the screen all the way back!! ... and looking at it more closely, you flip the screen open like a cell phone, then you swivel (spin/turn) the screen 180 degrees and then you close the flip.....

ok .. but what's the "everything" that sony released with hinge got screwed up ??

All their laptop got hinge did those got screwed up ?
They got phones with hinge did those got screwed up ?
Well they even got TV with hing did those got screwed up too ?

I'm not arguing with anyone, I was just repeating what you said because I was about to say the same thing when someone already posted it.

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/Images/feat_wide_2.gif

As you said, I guess people in Japan and most people in Asia are ubergeeks then. And you must be one of those very intelligent Enron executives.

Cheers,Jan

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One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

Sony also offered a sneak preview into a new line of "U'' series VAIO computer models that are set to rival handheld computers in terms of size.

They will run Microsoft Corp's Windows operating system and are small enough to fit into a large pocket, with thumb controls so they can be operated while being held.

Its 9900% WINDOWS XP home version.
The name of the model alone is VAIO that is their designation for their desktop and notebook line.

That coupled with their complaints recently about Microsofts licensing practices, and their schedule to appear in the anti trust trial, they sure dont want to add a new Micro$oft OS into their line.

Dream on.

RE: NR70V Features
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:33:32 AM

The T615C is backlit too. It uses a transflective screen, which is visible indoors and out. I assume the NR70(V) would be the same.

RE: NR70V Features
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:34:17 AM

No, it's the same screen on the T series
besides, there is no way they could put a backligh @ such thinness

MAKES ME WONDER!?!?!
How can anyone find out for sure? My HS Prism is useless outdoors. Visible outside would be a must otherwise, no dice!

Thankx!

I don't think palm should or could make anything similiar, as many people always say this kind of device is only for geeks specially geeks in asia :P so if palm follows sony's way, they'll both battle for the same crowd of Geeks. and left the normal consumers market to the PPCs.
In order for palm to save guard the normal non geek consumer market they need to keep making 160X160 res PDA with basic PIM functionality, that's what normal consumers want....

LoL .. Sorry I just joking.
Actually I was trying to justify why people should buy M515 over T615. Turns out after typing it, it sounds more like a joke.

First no one is saying palm will not survive without Sony. Did you notice that Sony has been selling PDA for nearly 2 years and palm has been selling PDA for like more than 7 years? Sony entered a market with a clear market dominant leader, If you get on the street and ask ppl do they know sony is selling Palm PDA, many of them probably will tell you NO. The any Palm model outselling Sony's any model argument is not making any sense. It's basically saying the population of roaches is much higher than human so they must be better than human. For christ sake roaches has been walking the surface of earth for how many times longer than human being ??

"Palm WILL survive without Sony. They appeal to two different users. Palm to professionals, Sony to techgeeks."

I don't know about you, but I think people in Asia bought alot of N-series with mp3 player, and I am pretty sure the NR-series will be a big success there too, are they all techgeeks ? Hell no they just want to get things done like everybody. The things is they can get more things done with Sony's model, and get a better price/function ratio. If you are techgeek you should be buying the iPaq and flash the ROM and put a linux on it, now that's what I called a techgeek.