Comments on: Palm Unveils its Own Web Browser

At CeBit, Palm Inc. has announced that it will soon be releasing the Palm Web Browser. This is a full Web browser which allows to user to access any URL on the Internet, bookmark and categorize favorite sites, save information for offline viewing, and cache a history of visited sites. Pages are reformatted to make them look better on a handheld's small screen. It will be available in the U.S. on April 8 for $20.

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why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:46:45 AM #

why are they charging money for it. it should have been for free

RE: why are they charging money

dethblud @ 3/13/2002 9:52:40 AM #

Why not charge money? It's a product that the company has spent time and money developing. Owning a Palm isn't a free ticket to any software the company makes.

RE: why are they charging money

montyburns @ 3/13/2002 9:53:26 AM #

because they can.

Handspring charges for their browser, so this should be no suprise to anybody.

I like my Palm!

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:02:24 AM #

I agree that if you have an older Palm, or a non-Palm Palm (such as a Handspring) you should have to pay for this browser. I don't think that Palm i705 owners should have to pay, as they developed a wireless handheld without these features, and these features should have been included. IMHO i705 users should be given a free upgrade.

RE: why are they charging money

LarryTheTomato @ 3/13/2002 10:02:57 AM #

If they had made it free, they would have put all third-party web browsers out of business. Palm's browser would be the only one. Do you really want that?

You've been living in a world dominated by Microsoft for too long. Palm likes and supports third-party developers. It doesn't actively try to steal their business and put them out of business.

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:27:35 AM #

"why are they charging money for it."??? Perhaps, so Palm can _make_ money. And stay in business. Won't that be good for all of us?!

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:44:57 AM #

I agree it should be free, after all PPCs include Pocket Internet Explorer for free! I don't mind paying money for apps, but some are ones that should be included on the device already and this is one of them, as well as a real email program.

RE: why are they charging money

LarryTheTomato @ 3/13/2002 10:47:41 AM #

Pocket Internet Explorer isn't very good and there are no competetors. There's no point in a company writing one and trying to sell it. Even if its was better (not very hard) they couldn't possibly make any money because Pocket Internet Explorer is free. Is that the situation you want for the Palm OS?

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 11:32:18 AM #

You think that this browser should be free just because PPCs include IE? Microsoft is able to include IE for "free" because they charge an arm and a leg for their PDAs. If you want to see Palm handhelds remain "affordable", asking them to include every home-grown software package for free isn't the way to do it... I think the $20 charge is reasonable. I do not currently need a web browser on my PDA -- I'd rather have the overall cost of the unit reduced by $20 and if I want to add the browser later I can easily do so...

RE: why are they charging money

fperkins @ 3/13/2002 11:33:40 AM #

IE is free. NS is free. Opera is free [with advertising], Palm's browser is fr... err 20 bucks.

What a joke.

I feel really sorry for anyone that bought an i705 and now they are being suckered to upgrade for 20 bucks.

This is only going to add support to PocketPC over Palm debate. "Palm charges 20 bucks for their browser while our's is Free!"

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:25:16 PM #

If Palm started providing a free, good-quality browser, they would run all of the 3rd party solutions out of business. Palm isn't Microsoft, and I don't want them to be. If they can provide and support a high-quality solution for $20, more power to them. Browsers are far more difficult applications to write than many of the other simplistic Palm apps that people charge $20 for.

RE: why are they charging money

Altema @ 3/13/2002 12:30:57 PM #

"If they had made it free, they would have put all third-party web browsers out of business. Palm's browser would be the only one. Do you really want that?
You've been living in a world dominated by Microsoft for too long. Palm likes and supports third-party developers. It doesn't actively try to steal their business and put them out of business."

I agree 100%

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 1:11:46 PM #

I bought a lot of things at the supermarket yesterday. So I will go today and ask them to give me 2 pounds of oranges for free...

You want the browser, pay for it. You don´t want to pay, don´t use a browser or use AvantGo. I agree with all the posts that say that it is a reasonable price, considering it is a very difficult software to write. And making it free would kill 3rd. party developers and turn Palm into MS... Let´s hope this never happens :-)

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:37:23 PM #

Well, Eudora already gives their Palm browser away for free, and that hasn't killed off the competition. Maybe we should pay for all the internal apps on the Palm huh, because including them for free is bad for competition?? Give me a break! Did anyone gripe about them including the Notepad app for free, when it replaces some 3rd party apps out there already? Of course not, because it will just encourage the 3rd parties to improve their products more and give people a reason to upgrade. Why are products like DateBk4 so popular when we already have a Datebook program? Because it provides a lot of additional features. There's no reason Palm should not be providing a free browser like the PPC does, while still allowing 3rd parties to develop ones that give us a lot more, like javascript and Flash capabilities.

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:43:15 PM #

If you are so cheap that you can't pay $20 for a browser, did you steal that Palm device you have or did you pick it out of a dumpster?

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:46:08 PM #

> I feel really sorry for anyone that bought an i705 and now they are
> being suckered to upgrade for 20 bucks

How do you know i705 users will have to pay for it? You don't, you just assumed it. Wait until you know whether you've been bit before you start howling.

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 3:50:36 PM #

Dont worry people. im sure it will be available on "WAREZ sites =)...

Last Time I Checked Handspring Charged $20 for Blazer

kevdo @ 3/13/2002 4:37:15 PM #

I'm not saying that Palm is a perfect company but there's been nary a peep that Handspring is charging the same price for basically the same sort of product.

If you're going to beat Palm up about this, then at least have the decency to beat up Handspring, too.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: why are they charging money

fperkins @ 3/13/2002 11:14:59 PM #

Let me ask a question. Does Palm make money off of it's wireless access subscriptions? Wouldn't a full featured browser intice more customers to buy the i705 because of the rich content it will support? Perhaps it will be a free upgrade for i705 users, but maybe not.

Err.. no I don't expect to get free oranges [stupid analogy]. Here's an anlogy that makes sense. You spend 25k on a new car and it doesn't come with floor mats. Do you tell the sales guy that you would like to pay 75 bucks for floor mats [sucker], or do you negotiate to have them thrown into the deal?

I really hate being so negative, but some of you guys are so blinded by your faith in Palm, that you refuse to be even somewhat critical of Palm, especially when they are trying to soak you for another 20 bucks after spending several hundred dollars on their latest and arguably greatest pda, not including accessories etc.

Part of the reason why I prefer Palm of PocketPC is because there are A LOT of freeware apps out there. Even the ones that aren't free, do have pretty good shareware versions. Like I already said, if Palm is going to start charging for applications to enhance their own product, it only makes it easier for M$ to creep on in.

It doesn't matter anyways. I'm sure Sony will have it included in their next wireless PDA. ;-)

If you're going to reply, point by point to this post, don't waste your time!

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:05:45 AM #

The comment about Eudora being free, and then talking about internal apps got me thinking.
Wouldn't this be solved if Palm decided to include a clipping-only web browser in the ROM
of all their Palms, and selling this full-featured web browser for $20. After all, that is what
they did with the email app, datebook, etc. They included apps are adequate, but hardly full
featured.

This way they can still use the same philosphy they always have of cooperation instead of
Microsoft's philosophy of destroying competition, even competition that isn't originally theirs.
It is my opinion that for the i705 some form of web browser should have been included with
the device, in ROM, not installable from CDROM. If Palm decided that any new applicaiton
would be installable, then they should take all their apps out of ROM and make them
installable too. This is getting into another topic.

-- Paul

RE: why are they charging money

NRowe @ 3/14/2002 12:03:53 PM #

I.M. Anonymous number 3003 wrote:

>Well, Eudora already gives their Palm browser away for
>free, and that hasn't killed off the competition.

But you are forgetting that Palm has the ability to bundle their browser into every Palm sold, Eudora doesn't have this capability. Obviously this has a far greater impact on the ability of other free browsers to survive. Witness the whole DOJ case against Microsoft browser bundling.

I don't necessarily agree with having to pay for every piece of software, but the fact remains that there are free alternatives to the Palm browser.
So far the discourse on all the reasons why Palm can/should charge users are very intelligent and on-topic. A refreshing change and long may this trend continue.

RE: why are they charging money

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:26:04 PM #

Netscape and Opera are forced to 'sell' their browser for free because of what M$ did, giving away IE free and destroying competitions. If M$ wanted to they could have sell PPC for free to destroy PalmOS and when PalmOS dies, they can charge $1000 for PPCs because no one else competes with them. Get it?

RE: why are they charging money

Edward @ 3/14/2002 2:36:50 PM #

"Wouldn't this be solved if Palm decided to include a clipping-only web browser in the ROM
of all their Palms, and selling this full-featured web browser for $20. "

Erm ... the clipping only browser is in nearly all OS 4 Roms - including Clie's. I use web clipping apps on my n770c as well as Blazer. Sadly the HTML renderer which Clippings use, and I imagine this browser will use, that is built into PalmOS at a fairly foundational level (it supports mail to links to a defined Mail App and can be called from other apps / call other apps) doesn't support Hi-Res even with Hi-Res Assist.

I am glad Palms browser is proxy based - it speeds things up!

Gee . . . .

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:48:32 AM #

What everyone was begging for . . . .

RE: Gee . . . .

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:31:46 PM #

>"What everyone was begging for . . . ."

huh? There are already several good browsers for Palm, including ones that support graphics, cookies, frames, and even javascript.

RE: Gee . . . .

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 1:45:56 PM #

Probably the point. Palm is about 6 - 12 months behind when it comes to anything lately so it doesnt surprise me.

RE: Gee . . . .

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 1:47:09 PM #

That was my point.

Wasted development resources . . . . .

RE: Gee . . . .

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:15:44 PM #

But there aren't any good browsers for the i705, unless you want to add an external modem.
Kinda defeats the purpose.

...and they shut out handspring users...

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:54:27 AM #

I know it's HS's own damn fault for not upgrading their OS, but what's in OS4.1 that the browser *had* to have? Not much, I bet. Oh, wait, there's one feature I forgot:

their biggest competitor in the wireless arena can't run it.

RE: ...and they shut out handspring users...

LarryTheTomato @ 3/13/2002 9:58:44 AM #

OS 4.x has support for web clipping integrated into the OS and OS 3.x does not. Because Visors don't have flash ROM, there is no way to add this to the OS. Palm would have to figure out a way to make Web clipping work without adding it to the OS. In short, a whole lot of work for a small percentage of sales.

RE: ...and they shut out handspring users...

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:12:44 AM #

There are Visor users that are runnign PQAs. All you need is the PalmMobile Kit (or some library files on the net).

RE: ...and they shut out handspring users...

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:35:13 AM #

try the surewave product at http://www.jpmobile.com/ it is reasonably successful at allowing visor/treo users to access pqas

RE: ...and they shut out handspring users...

Ed @ 3/13/2002 10:43:35 AM #

Please keep in mind that I said "this seems to indicate that it requires Palm OS 4" not that it definitely does. Let's stay in a holding pattern while we wait for more information and not draw too many conclusions from preliminary data.

---
News Editor

RE: ...and they shut out handspring users...

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:34:19 PM #

I don'[t understand all the whining about HandSpring in this thread - you've got Blazer 2.0 - a damn fine browser. And there is always Xiino (PalmScape) which supports javascript - i bet Palms browser doesnt do this. BTW - what web features does Palms browser support? Anybody know if it supports cookies or frames like above browsers do?

RE: ...and they shut out handspring users...

bcombee @ 3/13/2002 2:30:16 PM #

Web clipping (in Palm OS 4.0) supports cookies, so I'm fairly sure the new browser handles them too.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

''full'' Web browser

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:10:30 AM #

Does full Web browser mean support for javascript, etc. ? Anyone have any details ?

RE: Palm browsers

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:13:47 AM #

RE: ''full'' Web browser

Ed @ 3/13/2002 10:41:20 AM #

This is a very preliminary announcement without a lot of detail. However, because JavaScript wasn't mentioned, I suspect that it isn't included, at least in this first version.

---
News Editor

RE: ''full'' Web browser

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:59:25 AM #

Does anyone know when Xiino's English version is going to be out, it's been 'coming soon' for ages.
Palmscape was a good browser and it looks like Xiino will be great if they ever get around to translating it!

RE: ''full'' Web browser

Dark @ 3/13/2002 12:53:13 PM #

This is getting exciting.

A couple of days ago, there's was news on a Flash player for Palm OS. Now, a new browser for Palm. If this browser will have support for Javascript and has integrated Flash player, we are going places man!

_______________
http://www.palmvenue.com - Where Palm OS users and developers meet.

RE: Xiino is good

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:37:48 PM #

I use the Japanese Xiino and XiinoMail on my English IIIxe (Using JOS IV). It works great!
I am not a Japanese native speaker, (I'm Swedish:) but I am currently in the process of learning Japanes, and I would really recomend it to anyone!
It is not as difficult as some people say, and it is very usefull (not only because you can watch original Anime without subtitles:).

Strange thing though, there have for a long time not been any new versions of Xiino on their site, but on sonys Clié supportsite there is. But only Xiino for Clié highresolution units.
And now they are talking about a Xiino 2.0 for the new Cliés. But still no progress on the version for standard Palms...

RE: ''full'' Web browser

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/9/2002 9:40:18 PM #

Where is the PALM WEB BROWSWER????? It was due on April 8th. Can't they release anything on time????

move away from Web Clipping ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:18:32 AM #

As long as i705 can use the browser without an external modem, then they still stick with web clipping technology. Their browser is actually a general purpose PQA.

PalmOS Dev. PQA Form=Closed to Posting

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:46:02 AM #

Just clicked on to PalmOS Dev. PQA forum...Announcements Only-No posting.

Yep, looks like they are really moving away from Web Clipping...Perhaps more towards Bluetooth stuff??

PalmOS Dev. PQA Form != Closed to Posting

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:43:57 PM #

Palm has two Web Clipping email lists: one for discussion ("Web Clipping Forum") and one only for announcements from Palm ("Web Clipping Announcements"). The latter is read-only, but the former is (as of earlier this morning) still open for discussions. I think the previous poster may have confused the two lists and erroneously concluded that the discussion list has been shut down.

RE: move away from Web Clipping ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:44:56 PM #

>Yep, looks like they are really moving away from Web Clipping...Perhaps more towards Bluetooth stuff??

what do you mean? Bluetooth is a connection method - it doesnt compete with web-clipping. In fact - correct somebody if i am wrong - you can use a Bluetooth enabled Palm & phone to connect AND use web-clipping. no?

RE: move away from Web Clipping ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:13:49 AM #

yes

What sort of browser?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:44:18 AM #

what HTML specification does it support? how about java and embedded multimedia?

for 20 bucks it better does more than displaying italics and crooked pictures.

RE: What sort of browser?

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/10/2002 9:54:32 AM #

no....it can cook food and wash clothes.

Proxy Server

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:42:04 PM #

Hopefully it will be like I.E. and NOT need an external proxy server.
A proxy server will not work for sites behind out firewall.

RE: Proxy Server

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 2:25:26 AM #

The new browser is proxy based. It uses the same TCP port as web clipping (5002), so you'll need to open that in your fire-wall to use the browser.

Question regarding i705 use

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:28:32 PM #

Maybe this is a newbie question but does this mean with the on-board radio, or with an actual wireless or land-line modem?

In other words, do I have to buy a "true" modem for my i705 to use this?

RE: Question regarding i705 use

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:49:05 PM #

No, the i705 doesn't have the same limitation the VIIx did. You'll be able to wirelessly surf with this browser.

RE: Question regarding i705 use

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:35:49 PM #

If the i705 is different from the VIIx as you say, can I use third-party browsers on it like EudoraWeb and Blazer?

Current Software will suffice....

GeauxVols @ 3/13/2002 3:32:03 PM #

Is it really necessary to have a browser that emulates what you would get on the Windows desktop? I'm not sure about everyone else, but I browse from my Palm for information, and an occasional lookup of a definition or a map, etc. Doing a cost vs. utility analysis, my determination is that AvantGo will serve my purposes just fine as a web browser (albeit a limited one, but that's a given). While, as a software developer, I encourage a company to gain profit from a product they have spent time and money developing, I'm not so sure that a Palm browser, Javascript enabled or not, is worth $20 bucks given what's already available.

RE: Current Software will suffice....

Scott @ 3/13/2002 4:33:32 PM #

Sadly, I believe a lot of the effort put forth on this was simply to silence the critics who always said that the Palm couldn't do "real" web browsing. I believe the management at Palm these days has bought into the "zen is bad" mentality. I think that we'll find that the future of Palm becomes more glitzy with practicality taking a back seat. That said, I do believe that a "real" web browser makes a good complement to web clipping when you absolutely "have" to access information for which no PQA exists.

Scott

But will it truncate long pages on the i705?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:04:16 PM #

All this talk about will it support cookies or javascript, etc., is fine, but if it is
yet another browser that truncates long web pages, as has every browser for
the i705 or VII series that I know of except for the defunct DPWeb, then I think
it's pretty useless. Will Palm be caching pages on their server so that i705
users can bring them in in chunks?

Great a browser ......

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:41:15 PM #

I wonder why they makes a browser instead of improving the built-in PIM functions, I thought they want to NOT drive indipendent developers out of business. But look what's happening here, if they do a good job they'll drive 3rd party developers that writes web browser out of business, if they do a bad job that means they are wasting their time and money... O well .. live goes on.

RE: Great a browser ......

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:52:29 PM #

The difference is Palm isn't giving the browser away like it gives the PIM apps away.

Also, besides Handspring, who else makes a browser? AvantGo's is free but its kind of an add on to the off-line browsing function. Then there is the PalmScape people who haven't updated the English version of their app in forever. I don't think that qualifies as a thriving market.

RE: Great a browser ......

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:10:32 PM #

So they are still trying to run other browser company out of business, they are in direct competition with all of them free or not free. It's not like "I charge ppl 20 dollars for a browser so I am not in competition with anyone now"

Hay palm how about start charging for the built-in PIM software too ? I am pretty sure alot ppl will be running towards 3rd party developers.

RE: Great a browser ......

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:31:12 AM #

I've got no trouble with Palm competing fairly with third-party developers. As long as I'm not forced to buy Palm's software, I'm OK with it.

An Open Letter To Palm, Inc

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:00:45 PM #

Dear Palm,

Ever since the Palm V, you have been wringing your hands and throwing it up in the air with nervous laughter. One joke after another is too much for us. Time to get off the stage and face your audience.

You can't heck it in hardware. Your m515 is 10 months late. And how did Sony get their hands on SuperVZ before you did, considering the m515 just came out a few weeks before their NR-series?

And if Microsoft decides to poach Sony away, your mSeries will probably appeal only to the shelves. Perhaps your main revenue stream is coming from hardware but at the rate you are going, it will spiral into a blackhole. Instead of focusing on losers like the m515, you should be focusing on potential winners like your OS.

The latest survey has shown that PalmOS share has declined. Microsoft may not get the market share as fast as they hoped but that doesn't mean they have given it up. They have in fact, released not 1 but 2 other mobile computing OS - Stinger for phones and Mira for tablets and their market share is rising.

With a 3-prong squeeze on you from Microsoft, the 4th prong is Symbian and the 5th Java, you WILL lose market share if you continue to let it.

You should focus on your OS and make sure OS5 has variants for phones, tablets, embedded, etc. And you need to do this fast! Reassign your resource (money) and engineers to PalmSource. How come Sony has a variable contrast slider versus your poky 3-settings?

The browser should have been part of the OS not because we are cheap but even PPC 2002 comes with it. Your "zen" or simplicity marketing position does not mean stripping it out and then make us pay for it.

Whomever is your marketing dept. should be all fired anyway. Where is Palm's "Intel Inside" equivalent? Sony's machines are making waves and you ain't taking a ride with it. Nope, you gave us Claudia Schiffer Palms instead.

PalmOS should be a real competitor to all the other OSes out there. The MIK and browser should have been part of the OS upgrade - not an optional upgrade!

Say it with me, "Slap my face with my own Palm - HARD"!

RE: An Open Letter To Palm, Inc

drw @ 3/14/2002 3:03:52 AM #

I'll add my signature to that open letter.

How is it that the cheaper m130 has a better looking screen than the expensive m515?

Anyway, I can't stand waiting for the glacial pace palm is taking. I bought a new toshiba laptop for $799 that has 1ghz celeron, 256meg ram, 15gig harddrive, dvd, windows xp home. Now I'm satisfied with my current pda, because for total functionality, I can bring my laptop.

David in Pflugerville, TX

RE: An Open Letter To Palm, Inc

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:28:13 AM #

> Nope, you gave us Claudia Schiffer Palms instead.

The Claudia Schiffer and Michael Jordan Palms were created by PTN Media, a reseller that buys handhelds from Palm and markets them with their own campaign. Palm is no more invloved than Microsoft chooses who is on the cover of PC Mall.

RE: An Open Letter To Palm, Inc

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:38:59 AM #

Oh yes, they are involved alright. If some nut were to put Osama's face on Palms, would they do it?

ScreenShots

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:22:21 AM #

Any screenshots of this browser?

RE: ScreenShots

drw @ 3/14/2002 3:13:13 AM #

Finally, one intelligent comment after about 75 whinings about $20.

David in Pflugerville, TX

RE: ScreenShots

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 6:47:01 AM #

Yesterday we, at ItaPUG (Italian Palm User Group, http://www.itapug.org/), have published a review of Palm Web Browser, but consider that:
1. Our website is in italian only
2. At the moment, that review is reserved to subscribers only (free online subscriptions)

I can give you the URL of some picture, have a look at:
http://www.itapug.org/imgs/articoli/mr_mep/web_browser/home.gif
http://www.itapug.org/imgs/articoli/mr_mep/web_browser/itapug.gif

RE: ScreenShots

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 6:12:57 AM #

Pictures without subscription you can get here:
http://www.pdaforum.de/browservergleich/

Complain Sue Victory

PIC mobile user @ 3/17/2002 11:03:31 PM #

It seems very obvious that if your company has a product that competes with another from a giant company then you can complain to DOJ. Those states will willingly sue and try to ground your competitor for you!

RE: Complain Sue Victory

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/18/2002 8:43:45 AM #

This works only if the giant company has already been found guilty of using illegal methods to protect its monopoly. In short, it only works with Microsoft.