Comments on: Additional Details on the New Sony NR Series

On the semi serious side, I will stick with the M515. One reason: size. I carry the thing everywhere. I figure the more I carry it, the more I will use it. the M series (and V series) has held up for me in the worst environments literally around the world (several times at that).
I have never listened to an MP3, so I would look at a version with out that stuff inside. (It may be smaller also.)
The big thing is I bet this is so proprietary that when OS5 comes out there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when it is not supported on these things (things = NR series).
Sony does seem to be making a serious move on the consumer side of the house... But I could see where corporations would pull their hair out with the swift changes in the Sonys.

Higgy

Thanks for your info. really seriously which part of the device is proprietary, I only know sony changed the screen resolution that's about all the things they changed.

When OS 5 comes out this will be proprietary as any palm OS Device running draball VZ processors.

One of the cooler solutions would be a combination of the Infostick Bluetooth MS and a GPRS and Bluetooth-equipped cell phone.

There are a number of phones that would work for this available now (Ericsson T39, T68, Nokia 6210, 6310) and many more coming later this year (Nokia 6310i; 7650, 8910; Sony-Ericsson T61g, T68i, Z700).

I just hope that the next lineup of Clies has integrated Bluetooth!

Check how many comments were made on the initial article? No interest? Check the CLIE forums... No interest? I don't know what the hell you are talking about!

As for the keyboard, I think normal users will LOVE the keyboard and also attract new users.

Puhh-leeze!! This beats the crap out of anything out there so far, camera or no camera. Treat the camera as a gimmicky bonus. It's the best PDA period anyway! And it's only US$436 judging by yen prices. Price-for-feature there is no reason to get anything else unless you are strictly low-end (m105 budget).

Now think logically: why would you choose ANYTHING else over this? US sales will NOT disappoint. I'll wager you anything you want.

Analyze it with any other consumer electronic device, say, Walkmans. Let's say Sony releases a new Walkman that completely eclipses its older models with superior features, yet doesn't price it at a substantially higher differential. OF COURSE this is going to cannibalize sales from everyone else, including older Sony Walkmans, due to the technological leap combined with value-for-money.

It's simply logical.

If Sony were to release such a Walkman, then it's likely the OTHER models would decrease in price to offset the disparity. I would think other PalmOS PDAs will decrease in price if, indeed, the NR-70/70V are released in the US at such prices.

I disagree with the initial post that US sales would prove disappointing. However, I think both of the previous posts in this thread have valid points. So why the argument?

don't make the world laugh. if that thing can play QuakeII, than maybe we can talk. (That beside the lack of FC port. ie. LAN/modem/Wifi.) Still having trouble doing web? or office compatibility?

It's a nifty gimicky toy, albeit well designed.

to leap frog mean it has to have more power than PX250, 8-10 hrs of battery, and in smaller than LOOX or Asus production model, all with standart ports. (mini USB, CF, SD)

This Clie is using motorola DB embedded processor, with very out dated OS. This is not leap frog, this is severaly behind. It's a clever hack that's about it.

M515 = $499
iPAQ 3765 = $549 ($50 rebate program from Compaq is still on)

look who is ripping of with good old 33mHz machine from the day of PalmIIIx?

The m505 has the memory expansion BUILT IN !! The same with m515. The battery lasts 3 days not 6 hours.

how about a real expansion like CF? so maybe we can do GPS while inserting WiFI card.

3 dayss? is that "normal usage"? with that criteria, my car can keep gass for 2 yrs without refill, provided it's under "nomral usage". Drive it out of the garage and back in. Get real OK, m505 don't last 3 days under the PPC battery definition. (ie. continuous use)

Plus what can you do with 5 hrs continuous on in Palm? it got no interesting game, can't play mp3, can't do movie, nor drive networking card. maybe you can tap your appointment for 3 continuous hrs and consider it "Zen" game. Well so much for advance PDA.

What's interesting is that Sony alone can produce a
wider range of products than almost all the Pocket PC
vendors combined. The only niche which they're
(currently!) missing is the
under $100 student model.

This is in the same category as "why would anybody want to have that" (color, sound, bigger screen). Or "Zen" (what do you mean you want different design than Vx plus 16MHz dragon ball?)

Could it be because...

...they feel THREATENED?? Are they thinking:

"Oh no! Sony's introduced 320x480 resolution to PalmOS compared to our 240x320!!"

"Gak! Palm OS5 is coming in a few months, there are three excellent ARM processor families available, and they're gonna run that huge library of existing apps PLUS new ones that utilize native ARM!!!"
(Motorola Dragonball MX1; TI OMAP; as well as Intel XScale which is mandatory for PocketPC 2k2)

"Urrk! M$ has defined restrictive hardware specifications for PocketPC 2002, so all the hardware is turning out basically the same, while PalmOS licencees are free to pursue various innovative designs that hit all segments of the market!!!!!"

Actually, I'd guess that only the first scenario applies at the moment -- it will take a little longer for the other shocking realities to sink in... ;-)

M515 = $499
iPAQ 3765 = $549 ($50 rebate program from Compaq is still on)
look who is ripping of with good old 33mHz machine from the day of PalmIIIx?
-----------

Uh, I was just sent an email by Palm offering the M515 for $399.-, YES, PALM!!!

What is the fascination with watching a movie on a 3.5" screen?

My guess is the following: "I can do this with my overpriced gadget, so therefore I'm not the lifeless geek you think I am." Either that, or "I can do this, which means the fact that my johnson is microscopic and never gets used is irrelevant."

It DEFINITELY can't be: "This is a neat experience, because I can see so much detail."

Just a question...

Actually as mentioned elsewhere, the M515 was introduced at $399, and has been available for $379 at retail stores. Every store I went to was sold out of the M515 except for one, and they had it hidden, so it is not exactly gathering dust.

In response to the other poster asking what boring things you could do with a Palm, how about creating relational databases, going through all your MS office files (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), watching movies (yes, movies), review your collection of JPG's and BMP's, in addition to enough games to make you sick... with the exception of Quake II. I'm out of time, but the point is that my co-workers with PPC could not do half of what my former M505 could do, so they don't even bother comparing them to my 144Mb M515.

I'm already using a Symbol WiFi card in my HandEra 330 right now, but it's nice to know that I have the option of using it with the newer Clies as well.

This is the story of American & Japan since about 1945. The US is well-known for developing NEW products. Japan is well-known for developing BETTER products. Why does this make you sad? Does your TV make you sad? Your VCR? Your CD player? Your car? Why should Palm be a source of disappointment and get slammed so mercilessly? People certainly don't rake RCA over the coals the way they do Palm...

Is Palm doomed to a fate worse than Apple? I doubt it. They have catching up to do--CLEARLY--but I think they're moving in the right direction. It appears Sony is moving toward ultra-high-end devices. Palm is handling mostly low-mid range devices, as well as the "former" high end, the V/m500 series, which is now more "upper-middle." PalmSource will handle the OS that powers all levels.

So who loses? Handera, if their niche device can't increase the size of its niche; Handspring, as clearly seen by the impending death of the Visor (see the vultures?), plus they simply can't compete with the Ericcsons & Nokias of the world on the phone market, and yes, Microsoft, who's so busy "centrally planning" the Pocket PC that they're stifling innovation and ESPECIALLY variety. Didn't they pay attention the past 20 years? Central planning doesn't work--you sanitize your product lines and lose diversification. Which is why, in 2 years, PPC users will all have essentially the same machine in slightly different packages, and Palm users will have a wide range of devices, ALL of whom can interact with each other effectively. This is also why Micro$oft will actually BENEFIT from being broken up, despite "Whiner Bill's" tantrums.

We already do. The only really distinguishing characteristics between PocketPC 2002 machines is battery life and expansion slots. Otherwise, they're virtually the same. If you're shopping for a PPC nowadays, the decision effectively comes down to whether you think Jornadas look better than iPaqs.

O well I really like this device, but I read something on the PDA Live (something like that) Forum that the Dragonball Super VZ Processor could emulate a ARM CPU someone even say he saw a demo, so the 10MB of Flash ram might be there for emulation code.

So I wonder, is the glass half-empty or half-full?

This device becomes massive (length-wise anyow) with the keyboard open. Other than for sitting it on a desk/table (for which the thumbboard becomes kind of stupid), I don't know who would want to use the keyboard feature of this. Sony packed a lot of neat hardware in there, but I'm with the NR=Not Realistic comment. Unless you're getting this to show off to others, I'd don't see this flip-twist design as practical in any sense.

-haemish

Virtual Graffiti may be another thing that will be different on OS5 than Sony's way of doing it.

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If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

> Then As usual someone will tell me it won't be
> compatble
> Then as usual I'll have to tell someone again that
> it could be easily solved,

> then again some one will tell me Sony's proprietary
> implementation will lose support ..

> Will this infinity loop ever stop ??

You're right. We should all stop with the "What ifs" and the "I think this might happen".

I'm just going to sit at home now, seclude myself from all rumors and announcements of future products, and never hope for anything that is better than I currently have. :P

Anyways, I was just responding to someone's question about whether there are any benefits to OS5 over an OS4 device with proprietary customizations. I listed the possible advantages of OS5, stated they were only a possibility by using the words "may" and "if", and that's it. I think you're reading way more into my statements than I actually wrote.

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If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

How about early 2004?

I predict that Palm will release a model like this in about 2006, 3-4 years after Sony released the same thing.

Please reply...

What you perceived as poorly designed is only what you think it is, and not to many others whom may see it as a great designed product. So just let each and everyone has his/her views.

You gotta understand 6% marketshare in less than 2 years is pretty impressive specially a market that already has a dominant player. iPaq has been in the market for how long ?? I don't know but much longer than Sony they got 7%.

Not according to some of the people who write these comments.

Typical comment:
You WILL buy the same handheld I got or you are INSANE!! There is one one possible choice, the one I made!!!! EVERYONE who doesn't own a the same handheld I got is a MORON!!!!!

Where's the choice in that?

what do you mean m515 is a dud?
wait until they release the hot sizzling claudia schiffer m515. than the world will take it by storm.

<painfull groan>

Your endless whining would be a tiny bit more interesting if it was backed up by facts. The Claudia Schiffer and Michael Jordan Palms were put out by a reseller named PTN Media, not Palm itself. PTN Media buys them from Palm and then resells them. Your complaints are on the level of saying Microsoft stinks because you don't like the woman on the cover of PC Mall.

Someone makes intelligent analysis of Sony's role in the computer industry and the most intelligent response you can make is criticize a small uninvolved company's marketing strategy. Wow, I'm so impressed with you.

The writer was suggesting that Microsoft can do with Sony on their side when Sony has a PC-based product line (VAIO) and that means they can also include PPC 2002 products if they want to. Besides, iPaq seems to be the only one from the PPC 2002 stable that anybody seriously lust after.

If Sony can squeeze so much out of PalmOS/SuperVZ for their NR-series, think what else they can do with PPC.

>It'll beg for the lucrative high end handheld market...

Lucrative for who? Microsoft?

of course it's their market strategy to support their own technology, but I really don't see the big advantage of SD while MS has 12 times more market share than SD.

And this is why you will NEVER see this kind of incredible product development on the PPC side. Micro$oft is too busy "centrally planning" the future of PPC, while PalmSource is creating an open, dynamic system that allows its licensees to spread their wings.

A loaded question: which platform will OBVIOUSLY be more customizable, leading to a wide range of devices that appeal to any and every consumer? Duh...

Of course that's what you think. You're a Pocket PC troll who has only come here to irritate Palm users because you have no life. My guess is you are a high-school kid on Spring Break who isn't cool enough to go to Florida. Your Mom took your Xbox away from you because you didn't clean your room and you are trolling to give yourself something to do. I suggest you go outside and try to find a real life somewhere. Maybe make a friend.

This is the same kind of reasoning, on a different level, that the Soviets used to use on the Supply side of the economic equation. "Central planning" meant efficiency and stability. This is why Khrushchev pounded his shoe at the UN and said "We will bury you!" I'm sure Bill has the same feeling.

Those of us who paid attention in history know that central planning emphasizes efficiency & stability AT THE EXPENSE of variety, innovation, incentive, growth, etc. PPC looks good now, but wait 2 years, or whenever Micro$oft gets bored with it. We also know that it's Supply AND DEMAND that make the economy tick.
The PalmOS is simply more responsive to WHAT PEOPLE WANT, be it a basic organizer or a multimedia machine--and just wait for OS5 and beyond.

To all you PPC trolls who insist on adhering to the world according to Bill, just remember: the Soviets worked very hard to convince its people, too, and they truly believed their system was best (or else).

Perhaps the PPC ought to be offered in a red case, eh, comrade?

But, M$ is not sleeping either. Look at their Smartphone 2002 products coming out soon. Some pretty nifty stuff.

Industry analysts were very quick to pick up on the fact that there were almost no manufacturers who are willing to sign up to actually build any hardware based on this platform.

Perhaps they should change the code name from Stinger to Stillborn?

Perhaps they're reluctant to have "Big Brother Bill" DICTATE to them EXACTLY how they're to run their production. Microsoft is getting (or perhaps "has gotten) "too big for its britches" and is micro-managing all its partners. While this won't destroy the company --it's simply too big for that-- it WILL bring it down a peg or two.

Stinger is the beginning of the end for PPC...

This is sarcasm right? Palm Source sees it as a feature that different manufacturers can drop in their own APIs for hi-res, and virtual graffiti. They have no intention of resolving the API incompatibilities till something like Palm OS 6.

It's the other way around. Risc can do much more than Cisc at the same clock speed.

Risc is a much more feature rich design with assembly instructions more efficient, most of the time one instruction in Risc = 2 or more instructions in Cisc.

I will buy the new model... My opinion

Have a nice day.

I saw my next PDA today :-)

Plenty of people hunt and peck with two fingers on a keyboard and will be able to type more easily than using graffiti. Perhaps only 20% of the Palm OS market will want this but that's still millions of units per year.

LOL! Isn't it ironic that Star Wars, Ep 2: Attack of the Clones releases in 2002, the same year that brought you the PPC iPaq clones? I just hope the stagnation of PPC isn't a precursor to a stagnant SW series.

I also think your point of view is not the way Sony sees it. I personally think that Sony feels that they need to make a large range of PDA's so they have a better chance of catching all types of consumers. Not just the keyboard likers, but the high-res consumers, slim model consumers, color screen consumers, and even low end color and monochrome consumers. They needed to play catch up and that is what they did! You can't blame them for having almost all the devices do exactly the same thing but at different prices.

I also feel these two new devices are a change. Sony is thinking once again about what will attract us consumers. The keyboard idea was a good one. You'll have to admit its something compared to what they were doing.

http://pdan.has.it

ALL the built-in apps can use the full screen (ok the calculator doesn't) i.e. Memo pad, to do, schedule in all modes, Address.... With 8 font sizes to choose from.

I wasn't knocking progress, just saying that if companies like Sony would do something right the first time, they wouldn't have to come out with new models every month. Granted Handera doesn't have the cash to do this, they at least did just about everything right the first time and have not had any reason to come out with a new model other than adding color.

Sony should have had the foresight to include virtual grafitti in the 710 which came out the same time as the Handera.