Comments on: Palm OS 5 On Track for June Launch

PalmSource to ship Palm OS 5 in June
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/03/28/020328hnpalmos.xml

> Developers are going to have a field-day at what they will be able to do with the new system. We'll see some real games, and some powerful database/office applications.

You're surely joking. The API is virtually the same. As for a "field-day", we still have to wait for OS 6.0.

And we already have "real games" and powerful office applications: Wordsmith, Docs to Go. If you want more "real games" get a Gameboy Advance. I have one and it's great.

Please tame your expectations. If you want more, either use an ultralite laptop or a PocketPC. I will stick with my Palm m515.

Sure the OS5-only software will be great but that will take some time. The first generation OS 5 handhelds will surely be obsolete before some of these new applications are out. Think about it. What developer is going to write software that only runs on OS 5 handhelds the during the first year?

It should be called OS 4.6arm, instead of 5.0

There's some good factual info on OS5 at: http://www.palmos.com/platform/os5/ for anyone that's interested.

Assuming the hardware is on track for the Fall or Winter, then, one has to wonder whether YOUR favorite applications will be compatible. I have a many apps that, if incompatible, would not make OS 5 worth having. Some of these are niche apps that have not been modified by the author for over a year. Think about MathLib. The last update was about three years ago.

Just think about how long it has taken for many apps to incorporate VFS and that was supposedly planned way in advance.

<< The NR-series devices weren't worth getting in any case. >>

I agree. They're cool and all, but coolness is not worth a minimum $500. Especially not when there will be new devices, at least as cool, with more functionality, and all available by the end of the year. The only people who buy, AND KEEP (a very important point), the NR series will be the hard-core gadget enthusiasts.

it's not even a digital camera, my $20 webcam can take higher resolution than the NR.

>>The NR70V means not having to carry around three >>separate items:
>>1) Digital Camera
>>2) MP3 Player
>>3) PDA

On the entire planet Earth there are probably only five people carrying around these three separate items at one time. All five read PIC. Three will buy the new Sony Clie'. One will get the veto from the wife, and later divorce. The fifth will get run over by a bus crossing the street to get to CompUSA. Life will go on. Those of us who actually use a pda in making a living will wait for OS6 because, in reality, we don't really care about the operating system, and waiting for OS6 is just the excuse we need to put off wasting $400 on another handheld computer that we don't actually need because the one we have works just fine.

>> On the entire planet Earth there are probably only five people carrying around these three separate items at one time. All five read PIC. Three will buy the new Sony Clie'. One will get the veto from the wife, and later divorce. The fifth will get run over by a bus crossing the street to get to CompUSA. Life will go on. Those of us who actually use a pda in making a living will wait for OS6 because, in reality, we don't really care about the operating system, and waiting for OS6 is just the excuse we need to put off wasting $400 on another handheld computer that we don't actually need because the one we have works just fine. <<

You forgot to mention that the 3 PIC readers who do buy the Clie will post ENDLESSLY to PIC, claim ad nauseum about the apparent superiority of the new Clie, and acting like we're all neanderthals because we've got better things to do with our money. One will cuss like a 13-year-old who just discovered the shock value of profanity and wants to appear cool; one will use the phrase "reality distortion field" when criticizing for keeping our current Palms even though they're low-res, and one will try to act like he knows everything about computers.

well if you don't care about the speed increase or multimedia capabilities (and you can give a crap about the extra security features) then you are probably right.

It'll be more apparent (i think) in a year or so when the new apps you want will only run on ARM.

Sort of like die hard DOS people holding off on buying windows 95/98/2k. Sure they had tons of DOS games and apps that they loved........but now they couldn't use them.

While OS5 will not be a major upgrade from OS4.x, the new devices will have two important features:
1) ARM-based processors
2) upgradeability(sp?)

So buying an OS5 machine when it's available won't be a wasted purchase, because you can upgrade to OS6 once that's released. However, OS6 might have capabilities that your OS5 hardware can't take advantage of, so it is, indeed a leap-of-faith, somewhat. One would hope that the hardware manufacturers would anticipate this and build it into the OS5 hardware, but sometimes our hopes are dashed.

OS5 supports much faster hardware. The difference will be like upgrading from a 25 MHz 386 or Mac IIcx to a 100-266 MHz Pentium MMX or PowerMac; some new apps and games rewritten for OS5 will run around 10- to 100 times faster (e.g. much faster than by just the clock scaling factor).

Some of the main beneficiaries will be rewritten action games and web browser type applications. Ever try to run a web brower on an old 386?

OS5 will also give you standardized hires support, multivoice sound, and better built-in security. The built-in PIM apps will look pretty much the same.

>Nevertheless, if all you want to do is keep track of
>your contacts, or even just do word processing, you
>will still be happy with OS 4.1.

Ed,

If that's all I did with my Sony S320 I'd have chucked it into the kitchen junk drawer months ago ;-)

PDAP work has been going on for well over a year now, so it is surprising that they are calling that breaking news. When it gets to public review, that'll be news. It won't surprise me if it is even supported on pre-OS5 devices as well though.

Depending on how much RAM the new OS5 Palms have, I wouldn't be surprised to see something more substantial like a Personal Java implementation on that platform.

I was refering to the jsr82:java/bluetooth spec. message that was posted awhile back. RIM is one of the members of the jsr82:java/bluetooth expert group. It seems that the post has been deleted? It must be. I think it was a little off topic, although it was an interesting post.

c'est la vie

> past behavior by Palm and company indicates that you
> will have to buy a new PDA to take advantage of OS 6.

What past behaviour would that be??? That Palm provides upgrades for any Palm III or later device to the current OS 4.1? With the right upgrade hardware, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the old original PalmPilots can even run OS 4.1.

> I've got an old pilot 5000 with the 2MB upgrade kit ...

There's a thread over on Brighthand discussing which upgrade boards work with 4.1, and many of them do.

May be you miss my statement before the one you quote.. :)

"Imagine that Palm is work so hard, so that the new Palm OS 5 provides a new platform for ARM CPU, new API, new UI. ........"

And actually I mostly agree with you. Palm OS 5 is something like Windows 95, which is a hybrid of pass and future. But it maintain reasonable compatability with Windows 3.1.

PalmSource doesn't make any devices, and this wasn't a device announcement.

> PalmSource doesn't make any devices, and this wasn't a device announcement.

True, but they make money for each PalmOS PDA sold, right? A slow down still hurts them.

why can't you beat microsoft by imitating them?

Microsoft seems to imitate others - so why can't others imitate microsoft??????????

I agree with the original post, but let's not get over-excited here.

Unlike M$, Palm isn't going to force the new OS onto anyone. It will be up to each manufacturer to decide if they want it and, if so, how to use it. Mike Mace made it pretty clear in his interview with Ed, that OS 4.x will continue to be available for producers who are happy to stick with the current chips.

Speaking for myself, a little more speed doesn't hurt (but if and only if it doesn't have a material effect on battery life). As for multimedia stuff, well the piece of junk on my desk is full of that, which is one of the reasons I despise it so much. Any manufacturer who does ape with multimedia won't get any $ from me (are you listening, Sony?).

PalmStation's demise was not because of Anonymous postings, it was because the site owner got bored with the site and did not put the time into it anymore. User Names will not accomplish what you want unless you require REAL NAMES. Real names are obvioulsy not practical. So please quite your whining and post something interesting rather than just "The Sky is Falling" Chicken Little nonsense. The free-form flow of this site with all kinds of opposing, zealot opinions from all sides is what makes this site interesting. I believe the exact oposite of what you believe on this topic - I believe that if you make people log-in each and every time - you will see less posts - and less interesting discussions - and it will be the equivalent of CASTRATION of this site. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. So please don't be such a big baby and just ignore what you don't like. And don't take yourself so GD seriously. We are not solving world peace here, we are just talking about new technologies and PDA's for Pete's sake! Thank you.

"IMNSHO, PIC has to stop anonymous postings to help cut down on the flaming, trolling, FUDding and other moronic comments that are increasingly part of the posts on this site. If people are held accountable for their words, the signal-to-noise ratio should improve."

Youre totally wrong, this makes this board more interesting; if you eliminate anonymous postings, this would become a boring board and the posting volume will decrease tremendously, besides anybody can register fake names..

Spammed by who? The ultra-radical, heavily armed, my PDA or you die faction? I make it a point to read all of the registered posts (except for the ultra geek who has the tag line about hopping on one foot and speaking french etc....) I also read most of the anon, but not as religously.

Higgy

FYI I have 7 fake registered names here

I am not clear as to what one would find innovative about Pocket PC. Their devices are pretty much all the same and have been for a couple of years now. In contrast, the Palm platform has many more software and hardware choices at a wide variety of prices.

Palm does not have more hardware choice specially in peripherals area. (no face plate doesn't count)

what is 'overall package'? the size of m500 with 20hrs continuous battery? sure they are unbeatable.

but beyond PIM that's where things are lagging. Simple thing like pictures, web, mp3, manipulating office file. Current Palm OS start to show some sever strain.

On the hardware side there are always bigger color screen, cheap CF memory argument. (leaving the more esoteric CF items)

Overall, there are simply more things to carry around inside a PDA these days than simple appointments and few text files. Filofax replacement is an old trick, while the veriety of digital items one wants to carry has changed. Be it presentation file, view voice recordings, mp3 or mpeg. How these 'digital items' could be carried, access and manipulated with ease define a successfull PDA. It is afterall called Personal 'Digital' Assitance.

Pretty soon it's all about wireless pda, how to toss around the 'digital item' inside the PDA via wireless seamlessly.

Palm stil has no strong answer facing this trend, specially with current product.

-The quality or even if the feature exists are not consistant throughout all Palm models. Isn't that what the dispute is about? Sure you can say the high end Sony model has very nice screen and does mp3, but the price parity vaporise and so does the expandibility.

-Palm can handle office files, sure, but user must jump through numerous hoops to get it work if desktop is not handy, contrast to direct access.

-Palm smartphones feature would also be limited by current hardware and OS. The early models are merely cellphones glued to a Vx with little integration beside address book. Than Handspring add eamil and limited web software. By next month the question again emerge, can Palm phones compete and adequately handle color web, email, attachments, small mpeg, and multitasking (open one or two apps while talking on the phone)

["On the hardware side there are always bigger color screen, cheap CF memory argument. (leaving the more esoteric CF items)"]

The Handera models both have CF and many CF peripherals work with them quite well. The 330 also has an SD/MMC slot, so you can still have added memory while using these peripherals.

["Pretty soon it's all about wireless pda, how to toss around the 'digital item' inside the PDA via wireless seamlessly.
Palm stil has no strong answer facing this trend, specially with current product."]

Hmmm...I can get a digital phone card from Socket that connects my Handera 330 to my cell phone via the CF slot. I can still use my keyboard on the serial port, giving me the equivalent of a wireless laptop (minus some multimedia stuff)that is easier to carry around and costs much less.

Soooooo....clearly PPC has absolutely no real advantages in these areas. Too bad Handera didn't get more market share with a truly remarkable piece of engineering.

Sean

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