Comments on: Rumor: Details on Upcoming HandEra Device

One advantage of Sony's hi-res and virtual graffiti is that it is more compatible with old apps. As long as hi-res assist is turned off for old apps, simple pixel doubling makes everything look exactly as it does on a 160x160 screen. With HandEra, the 240x240 main screen means that older apps have to be either shown in a smaller 160x160 section of the screen or 'scaled to fit' which can cause compatability issues. Both require applications to be modified in order to take advantage of the extra screen space when you minimize/hide the virtual graffiti. Plus, the higher resolution of sony's screen means better images/graphics and fonts.

>> One advantage of Sony's hi-res and virtual graffiti
>> is that it is more compatible with old apps.
>
>and Sony's hi-res APIs for developers are completely >incompatible with the Palm OS 5 hi-res for new apps.

Not surpising, considering the Sony API's were written before Palm OS 5 was. Hard to make things compatible with something that doesn't yet exist.

Not sure why people pick on the Sony API's - software developers have done a good job of supporting the hi-res Sony units with them, and I've had nearly 100% success in running non-high-res applications on my Clie 610.

Sure things will change with Palm OS 5, but until it's released, Sony will have the best solution for high resolution. And at the rate Sony and Palm are going, Sony will have released another 30 or 40 new models of palmtops before Palm releases OS 5.0 - sometime in 2006...

I wouldn't doubt that HandEra has a device like this lying around somewhere or that maybe they've given a few similar to some people to test, but these specs seem more like rumor than fact.

> Sony requires a CF-sled (currently only available in Japan)

From what I understand, that sled only works with one or two devices, maybe just a single wireless phone card.

Is the handera going to have basically the same form factor as previous handeras or is the design going to be redone so that it looks modern?

Also is it USB compatible using the palm III connector? or is it serial compatiblity only? That may be the ultimate killer for me.. although the CF slot would be SOOOOO cool .... but then the drivers...

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LC =
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> and Sony's hi-res APIs for developers are completely
> incompatible with the Palm OS 5 hi-res for new apps.

Not quite. Sony's hi-res API is DIFFERENT from PalmOS's high-density API, but it's not completely incompatible.

Sony's high-resolution library can be implemented using OS 5's high-density calls. This means that it should be easy enough for someone to develop a substitute library to allow apps written for high-resolution CLIEs to run on OS 5 devices. (In fact, Sony indicated at PalmSource that they will provide such a compatibility layer.)

(Whether or not high-density apps written for OS 5 will run on existing high-resolution CLIEs is a different matter; Sony's API is more limited, so implementing Palm's API using Sony's would be quite a bit harder.)

from someone who owns a memory stick digicam (Sony P5)and a memory stick PDA (Sony 760) let me tell you that it's pretty overrated to be able to view digicam output on your PDA.

Palm OS PDA's are just too slow to be able to handle displaying those 1+ MB monster JPGs that digicams output, and they have to scale it to, and they're too slow to be able to scale it without it looking crappy.

Still, everything else you have might still make going HandEra a good choice even if you took my advice and ignored the digicam angle.

I never understood why folks say that 8MB is not enough. I used to have a Palm V, and as soon as I installed AvantGo on it, I ran out of RAM. So I felt quite liberated when I eventually bought my HE330 because it had enough RAM to handle the AvantGo channels I subscribed to (7 total). Today with all the things I do with my HE330 (games, lists, built-in apps, Acrobat, Quick-sheet and -word) I am
only using half the RAM in my device. With the 32MB MMC card I have as well, and the AutoCard app Handera has (when will that come out of beta?), I don't see why 8MB isn't enough.

I'm not claiming that anyone demanding 16MB is wrong, I'm just wondering what to *DO* with all the RAM I have.

-- Paul

"ePocrates, the most ubiquitous program for medical PDA's takes up 1.6 megs or so. It's twice as large as it was two years ago. PatientKeeper's new 3.0 beta is over 2 megs. Neither will work off a memory card anytime soon. "

Wow, What a BIIIIIIIggg program.

So they can not even put in to /Palm/Launcher instead
of RAM? Did you try PiDirectVFS to put their database on the card?

Another TRGpro user who has TONS of programs and database.
(Still can not fill up half of 8mb, but almost finish my 128mb CF)

PiDirect II is awesome! I was using AutoCard first, but it gave me some problems to the point that I either had to sacrifice RAM or buy PiDirect II (i.e. using the large spellcheck dictionary in Wordsmith. I now can use it on the card). PDII allows you to run 10 files off the card without registering it, but it will not work simultaneously with AutoCard, so that defeated the purpose.

I now have absolutely NO problems running any app from a memory card.

As for having to remove your card to use peripherals, a unit with 2 card slots works wonders for getting around that. With my HE330, I can have memory and apps in the SD slot, a Socket digital phone card (to hook up to my cell phone) in the CF slot, and still use my PPK keyboard. Combine that with the right software and I effectively have a wireless laptop!

Sean

Yes, a few weeks ago Tony Rudenko introduced an upgrade for the HandEra 330 to 16 MB of RAM. It costs $110.

www.PalmPilotUpgrade.com/about.html

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News Editor

hmm. cant log in...

i agree with ed. this has to be false. it doesnt seem like handera to come out with a device thats just a 330 with a color screen. they would need a good reason to release a new device.

-scaught

Well I don't know about that. I agree to an extent. Handera understands that 16mb is a trend, and most are going to follow it, infact most have already in the PalmOS platform. And the 66mhz will soon become a trend if OS5 takes a little longer, to have some side profit or something. BUT Handera knows by adding all this, it will only extend the price. Handera is becoming VERY common, but Palm is still most known. SO, inorder to have consumers to order their product, they must have great prices that beat Palm, great function, rather than a name you can trust. It might not make sense, perhaps I'm not saying it well enough. But it does make sense once you think about it. The features you talk about will increase the price. I think their goal right now is to steal consumers and get some of that market share! This is one good way.

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http://pdan.has.it
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You don't want to grow old but you don't want to die young!
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Just keep in mind, this is a rumor. It may turn out to be incorrect.

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News Editor

It still better than all Palm product in term of screen and expandibility, second only to Sony in term of screen and style.

No matter how much money you pay, you won't be able to put Wi-Fi or 1Gig microdrive on Sony. Handera on the other hand can take ANY of Sony peripherals, even that idiotic memstick. (with CF universal adapter)

Try Pretec site.

some british store sells it (too lazy to click more of google search)
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=PRECTRIO

so incidentally, this mean PPC can accept memory stick.

"Hilarious. Memory Stick is slower than SD or CF. Come back when you know what you are talking about."

yes.

Along with the totally original title of this post (which we sure need to hear a few more thousand times because it's SO cool to post Too little Too late whenever new hardware is introduced...) this whole post is not worth the time to read it.

Handera seems to have their heads on straight, and have produced quality products. I agree with Ed in that i'm leaning more toward the rumor on this one since this device wouldn't hold well in the next 4-6 months.

The 330 is still a darn good pda today. in 6 months though when the ARM and os 5 devices hit? Hence the new device, which i think we're still yet to hear about.

Basic Fact: SD has the fastest transfer rate in theory

> The ONLY "industry leader" with anything higher than 160x160 res is Sony.

Sony isn't an industry leader. Their PDA marketshare is small, and the number hi-res devices they sell is even way far smaller than that. Their S-series has likely outsold all the rest of their devices to date. The most common industry standard screen size for PDAs is 160x160 followed by 240x320.

The theoretical throughput, according to the official spec, of SD is the fastest of any of the PalmOS-supported memory card. Notice "theoretical". Due to the physical electronics present in all Palms, CF cards (or rather the CF bus connection) delivers the best real-world throughput of any card on the Palm today.

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This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

Oops, I was wrong, it acually is megabytes (MB). Transfer rates are usually measured in megabits though. Anyhow, you still are never going to see that performance, and the actual differences in between 2MB/sec and 2.5MBsec isn't going to be noticable unless you are working with very large amounts of data. CF, like on the HandEra devices, is still way faster than the current SD and MS implementations.

Compare CF and MMC side by side? OK. (I don't have a SD card) I have a SanDisk 32MB MMC card and a SanDisk 32MB CF card in my HE330.
Currently my CF card has 4.71MB free due to vacation pictures on it, and the MMC card has 14.8MB on it due to 5 backup files on it.

I backed up my device onto the MMC card, and it took 1:06 to create a sixth backup file at 3.276MB. The same backup on the CF card took 31 seconds.
I suppose I could wipe the CF card and create 5 backup files on it before trying this test, so that both cards have the same stuff on them, but this seems
close enough.

-- Paul

I have TRGPRO with 64MB CF card, and a Sony S320 with 32MB memory stick. TRGPRO backs up about 7.5MB data in less than 20 seconds, while Sony backs up about 3MB of data in what feels like eternity (1 min). This is the primary reason I am not willing to go to the color sonys right now despite its many other appealing features. Technical specs means nothing, only performance matters.

Greg

"mature" meaning everyone agrees with your flawed theory of Sony being an industry leader?

C'mon, it's already obvious you're not interested in discussing anything, because you've already decided on the "Sony rules" mindset.

Get real.

Sean

> it's already obvious you're not interested in discussing anything

Yes, and for some reason he thinks posting false information as "tipds" is better than posting factual info anonymously.

SD Standard Specs
http://www.sdcard.org/press5.htm

MS Specs
http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/mscon/media.html

· Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments may be moderated/deleted.

There's an app called VFS Mark that performs 9 various read/write/etc. tests of removable expansion card media.

The reference score of 100 is for a Palm M500 with a Palm 16MB SD card and provides an average of these tests (higher is better).

Here are a few results we've seen:

m505 : 16MB SD : 94

m505 : 16MB MMC : 59

T615c: 32MB MS : 43

H330: 192MB CF : 131

I don't know how accurate/representative the numbers for VFS mark are, but they certainly put at least some quantitative data on card speeds. They also validate my observations that the Clie/Memory Stick combo is relatively very slow.

You can find VFS Mark at http://www.kopsisengineering.com

--I'm not sure what kind of backups you're doing, but using the included backup program on the HandEra 330 it only takes
about 12 seconds to back up the entire RAM, over 7MB, to CF. You may want to look into using a different backup
program.--

I *AM* using the native backup program. I'd like to know how you got twice as much data to back up in half the time as me.

--Unfortunately, these kinds of comparisons tell nothing of real interest. There is no laboratory controll at all. There are
many factors that will come into play when backing up... the least of which is not the backup program.
If there's anyone that would like to discuss the matter further (in a rational manner), I'd be more than happy to do so in a
more "mature" environment.--

I don't know, seeing how fast others can get transfers done seems pretty interesting to me. And why worry about laboratory
controls since we don't work at Handera and aren't privy to the internal software code. Kinda makes a lot of laboratory
control conditions impossible. We're doing performance testing here, not unit/functional/integration or even system testing.
At this level, there is no white-box testing...it is all blackbox (push stuff in, see what comes out). The only factors I can think
of are:

CPU speed, OS version, list of enabled and disabled hacks, list of software on device, brand and model of flash card,
battery level (if you really want to get anal about variables), amount of data, fragmentation in RAM and on flash.

I think the best test I've seen on this "immature" board so far was the VFSmark tests, but the standard backups on various
media was very interesting. In short, lighten up.

Just my opinion.
-- Paul

"Well, Anonymous, judging by the fact that you haven't figured out how to register here, and also by your comment above, you clearly haven't read many of my posts. Now, you never DID tell me what you do for a living. Tell me how it is that you've become an expert on this subject."

I work on PC's and *handheld* devices. What is it you do again besides trolling?

Oh, and in spite of not registering, my posts have my name signed at the bottom, so don't be confusing me with other "Anonymous" postings. You didn't originally pose the occupation question to me, but since you later directed it my way, you now have my answer.

Sean

If I remember right, there is an interview of HandEra's president someplace where he implied that they may keep the Palm III connector for accessories (since Palm wouldn't let them use their "universal" connector), but that they would also provide some other means for USB syncing.

Handera claims that the 330 is the FINAL model with serial port hotsync.

Don't go insulting another person's country, now, Mr. Europe. There is no need for that and no harm was intended in the post.

The article says March 31st I think, if the translator is working.

Yeah, the world certainly DOES NOT revolve around the U.S. In fact, there are many people in the US who visit Russian websites to find out about new cutting-edge Russian PDA's. :)

> Yeah, the world certainly DOES NOT revolve around
> the U.S. In fact, there are many people in the US
> who visit Russian websites to find out about new
> cutting-edge Russian PDA's. :)

Well, be careful here. Following the logic of your post one can conclude that the world really revolves around Japan.

April Fool's Day did not start in America. No one knows how this holiday began but it was thought to have originated in France.

In the sixteenth century, New Year's was celebrated on March 25 and celebrations lasted until April 1st. When New Year’s Day as changed from March 25 to January 1st in the mid-1560's by King Charles IX, there were some people who still celebrated it on April 1st and those people were called April Fools.

Each country celebrates April Fool’s differently.  In France, the April Fool’s is called "April Fish" (Poisson d'Avril).  The French fool their friends by taping a paper fish to their friends’ backs and when some discovers a this trick, they yell “Poisson d’Avril!” .

In England, tricks can be played only in the morning. If a trick is played on you, you are a "noodle". In Scotland, April Fools Day is 48 hours long and you are called an "April Gowk", which is another name for a cuckoo bird. The second day in Scotland’s April Fool's is called Taily Day and is dedicated to pranks involving the buttocks. Taily Day's gift to posterior posterity is the "Kick Me" sign.

In Portugal, April Fool's is celebrated on the Sunday and Monday before Lent. The traditional trick there is to throw flour at your friends.

In America, Americans play small tricks on friends and strangers alike on the first of April.

Wow,
Thanks for that info on the different "April Fools" traditions... It was really quite interesting. I did not know that New Years day was actually celebrated in late march/early April! (Well, 400+ years ago). You learn something new eveery day!

Handera is a kick ass machine!

>> Sure it may not be all that pretty <<

People acknowledge/complain about the 330's looks, but consider the following:

Even with the form factor it has now, the 330 is still equal in size to the smallest PPC - the Toshiba Genio. (I don't count the iPaq because it requires that enormous sleeve to add expansion.) And it's also at least as nice-looking as most of the PPC offerings, better than some. Have you seen the new Casio? Yikes! Put a bag over that one!

I also don't quite comprehend people's complaints about the casing. HandEra chooses silver, and everyone howls. Sony chooses silver, and the same people go "Ooooh, Aaaaah." Sounds to me like Sony-apologist biased bulls***.

He is talking about N710/N610/S320 silver PLASTIC casing, OK?

>> He is talking about N710/N610/S320 silver PLASTIC casing, OK? <<

Yes, that is indeed what I was referencing. I should also affirm the above post that the HandEra is metal-PLATED plastic, not PAINTED. If you want CHEAP & PAINTED, buy the Sony N-series. You'll notice paint rubbing off pretty much every place that the unit gets consistent friction--stylus silo, sides, bottom, back...

And if you want CHEAP METAL housing, go for the Sony T-series, which, depending on the unit you get, may be warped or slightly bent. Yeah, THAT'S quality control...

But I guess we can't point out cheap cost-cutting measures in the Sony, can we? That would burst people's oh-so-fragile bubble that they feel compelled to flame others in order to defend...

Isn't the point of April Fools to be funny or absurd rather than simply wrong or made up? What's the point? Does this pass for humor in Russia? Perhaps.

What's next? Doctoring a photo to make a dark gray case look black? Ha ha ha! Change OS display from 4.1 to 4.0? Wheeee! Pass the Vodka!

At least you got a response. I sent an email to their sales department shortly after the announcement of the new Sony indicating that I loved my Handera but that I was starting to thirst for a color screen and faster processor. I just wanted to know if they had something in color planned for the summer timeframe or visible future because I'd wait that long for a color Handera. I never got a response.

TFT stands for thin-film transistor; basically it means the screen is active rather than passive, allowing for faster response times and better colors.

By itself, it doesn't mean anything about the screen's reflectivity properties. Sony CLIEs have TFT screens but are visible both indoors and out.