Comments on: Screenshots from Palm OS 5

This sounds beleiveable...

Latest OS5 POSE have the same icons.. and theme ..
It looks so nice.. I want it in my M515 .. hehe :)

Dude... if you want themes, get a laptop.

Just kidding... I like the idea of themes too! Now I'm all amped for OS5!

Palm Power!

Not a theme at all, just a color scheme.

>>Not a theme at all, just a color scheme.

I didnt realize balloons was a color. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

on the snapshot of Palm OS 5, on the right, you can choose your theme....

What exactly do you want to see?

If Palmsource was smart, then the "theme" implementation should mean that not just icons and colors are considered themes but real launchers.

So, someone like sony could make their version of say, megalauncher, and that would be the default view you see on their pdas - not a seperate app to run.

That would prove most flexible and offer users different devices and different views. And if you don't want all that? the base standard decade old interface is there.

For the originator of this topic - you did know that they were not redesigning the gui right? I mean, there have been SEVERAL pictures from Palmsource to show this as well as statements made.

This isn't new news.

Also, it isn't Palmsource's responsibility to redesign the gui really. I mean, not if they are going with the whole philsophy of not having one perfect pda for any one person. They offer all the tools the vendors need to make it THEIR pda.

that's the plan, or so it seems.

Heeyyy... what happened to the free expression of ideas...???

All I was getting at is that in general, many new customers to PDA's and the such are drawn to interesting interfases, ofcourse this concept changes over time, there was a time when the win3.0 interfase was considered high tech!

I am not in any way a mac user of fanatic, but I have seen many people at fry's seriously considering iMacs due to the computer's design and how simple yet modern, high tech and pretty the OS look.

I am just saying that if you look at a PDA display at a compusa, fry's etc. the 'coolest' looking launchers do not come with palm devices. I wish they did so even more people would buy palm, more apps and accesories produced and subsequently more innovations happen.

Anyway, I am happy that there is innovation on the OS side, what I fear is that other companies are out-innovating palm.. I love the platform, I have PPC's and even psions and I allways come back to palm... I just hope they keep giving me reasons to

= = =
LC =
= = =

Hey, look up there! A flamer in every sense of the word.

There should be some kind of ignorance clause for these boards.

"I am not in any way a mac user of fanatic, but I have seen many people at fry's seriously considering iMacs due to the computer's design and how simple yet modern, high tech and pretty the OS look.

I am just saying that if you look at a PDA display at a compusa, fry's etc. the 'coolest' looking launchers do not come with palm devices. I wish they did so even more people would buy palm..."

Yup...and generally those are the people that shouldn't be buying computers to begin with, because they have no clue what it is or how to use it. Apple has maintained a breath of life in the marketplace by ooohing and aaahing the gullible (oh, and a substantial amount of funding from their chief rival, so there could be "competition" in the market...Apple becomes a pawn of M$). I DEFINITELY don't want these kind of people buying PalmOS devices until they have a genuine use for them and a level of intelligence that allows them to think beyond "pretty pictures" to actual functionality. Let the "pretty pictures" crowd buy a overpriced PocketPC's to go with their overpriced IMAC's. The two products seem perfectly targeted for the same demographic.

This isn't to say that the interface couldn't be jazzed up a little bit, but the day my Palm looks like WinXP or OSX (especially if it is at the expense of performance and usefulness) is the day I ditch my Palm.

Comment from a previous post:
"Yup...and generally those are the people that shouldn't be buying computers to begin with, because they have no clue what it is or how to use it. ..... I DEFINITELY don't want these kind of people buying PalmOS devices until they have a genuine use for them and a level of intelligence that allows them to think beyond "pretty pictures" to actual functionality"

Begin rant:
Is this a joke, I don't want "these kind of people" buying a palm. The irony hear is that you all sound like a bunch of Mac users and yet your slamming them. Your being just as elitist at about the Palm hardware/OS as a Mac user. And for the record I've owned several PCs and just bought one of the new iMac. I'm not one of those freaks about their computers -- it was the right tool for the right job. Believe it or not, people need computers and peripherals for different reasons -- for a lot of people if it's easy to use out of the box and it looks good too, that's just fine for them. A lot of people don't need to spend hours tweaking their palms so they can use this launcher or that freaky Star Trek theme. They just want an easy to use device that works. Hasn't that always been the hallmark of a Palm?

It's simple... very nice. What? Would you like something tacky like PocketPC?

Yes this is just the OS 5 simulator running essentially the normal Palm apps. It is available to registered developers. Although I think the emulator is 320x320, OS 5 apparently supports many other resolutions than just 320x320 and 160x160.

How about something fun to see? A showcase what it can do, instead of front icons and a menu page. (ie. the theme at work full blast, make it rawdy)

How about mp3, .mpeg, multimedia and the tauted new networking and security features.

There isn't anything useful to see in the OS 5 emulator. It is really just for developers and only has the usual Palm apps built in for testing purposes.

I think that will all depend on how manufactures use the Palm OS5 SDK. We just need to wait and see I guess.

Since the os is to be ARM based from here on right now i don't see how software changes in OS 6 would change the device processor chip requirements.

Even better, you will probably be able to upgrade them to Linux.

> There may be per-loaded OS on your PDA. But you can
> always reflash the ROM and install OS of your choice.

I'm sure we will have that at some point. There are various OS's that you can already flash onto the iPaq. Of course it would also be nice if the serial/USB connector at the base of PDAs was standardized too.

Oh yeah. But rather than try to showhorn everything and the kitchen sink into a handheld, why not a .39" palm os5 16bit colour with blackberry thumboard and integrated bluetooth.

>Nooo...I personally don't like the integrated thumboard to replace grafitti,

Yr right if yr talking about Handsprings Treo - with those you have to choose. But integrated thumbboard on PalmOS doesn't mean you have to replace grafitti. Look at the new sony NR70. This is a clamshell design (which some dont like) but you could also follow the design Sharp's Zaurus (linux pda).

Really. The Clie has themes? How do I access them?

Oh, wait, I can't. Maybe if you pull your head out of your a** the pressure released from your brain will allow you to think clearly.

LOL!!!

You don't need Sony or OS 5 to change "themes" on your palm... take a look at the Butterfly:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K5EE427A

Oh, and it's a freeware :)

>My point is that everyone seems to be salivating about an OS that my not do much more than what a Clie does now..

Wow! yr Sony has has a 200-400Mhz processor! integrated SSl and VPN! Got to get me one of those.....

Do you really think Palm will actually take advantage of the new Palm OS!?!??! Hamahahahahahahahaha. FUNNY.
THey won't,I have seen their innovation. A new PalmPilot every 5 years. FUNNY.
Btw, the SD slot is the stupidest thing ever. Panasonic cameras do not widely use the SD slot YET, however Sony's memory slots do.
DO you really think Palmsource will let their new PDA's run 200-400MHZ!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, shoot a can in my a** and knock me silly. Palmsource is all about 'simplicity', and that other garbage. I'm not suprised if they come out with support for only processors up to 100mhz. WoopdeeDO. Sony's new NR70 can easily do that right now. 66mhz, in addition to a current app that overclocks your PDA wouldnt be so far behind that. And im sure by the time they develope a program to overclock the ARM processor PDA's, Sony would have created a faster processor, of course, with the crappy regulation of Palmsource's stupid OS.
High Res screeN? You guys really think thats innovative? Sony's screens already support that, and they have apps out there, not alot, however enough, in addition to games that actually support that. What about the new NR70V's 480 X 320 high res screen, or whatever it is? Now that is freakin' amazing. And palmsource cant even create an OS that supports higher than 320 X 320 color resolution. Sick.
Virtual graffiti? Well, I haven't heard of virtual graffiti in the new Palm OS 5 officially yet. THe new NR70V has support for virtual graffiti. Gee wiz, i guess OS 5 hasnt implemented that yet. Or should I say, PalmSource. Hah. Funny. A half done job. And btw, the pic shown on that picture. I dont know where it came from, so I'm not trusting it. If it has VG, wow, thats amazing, the Sony already has it. If it doesnt, I'll laugh harder tonight when I meet at Starbucks with my friends.
I will obviously watch for OS6, however, it will be another year since that will come out, with multi-tasking and everything else. Who knows how awesome the PPC will be. :)
Seems like OS5 is still definitely a dissapointment. And please. Do not buy anything from Palm Inc. They eat your money, develope something 1 month ahead. Go to sleep. Eat your money and do the same cycle over and over again.

An Anonymous User.
A definite Sony and somewhat of a PocketPC fan.
BTW. Samsung. Go to sleep.
BTW: Handspring. Go to sleep. Your springboards are junk. If you want to add an mp3 module, make a clie.
BTW: Handera. You've lost the race. Go home and get out of that wheelchair and learn how to walk.
PS. What I love. I am an anonymous user, so you cannot directly flame me.
Anything else I forgot, shoot me. But you know I'm right, you stupid Palm, Handspring, and Handera fans. Go sleep and wake up when Palm Inc, HS, and Handera go bankrupt. I'll laugh. :)

If the guy who posted before bcombee isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

Ed, does such obvious flamebait really need to stay on the board?

And that is exactly what I had referenced to.
It is not trolling, it is stating a fact.

>>DO you really think Palmsource will let their new PDA's run 200-400MHZ!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, shoot a can in my a** and knock me silly. Palmsource is all about 'simplicity', and that other garbage. I'm not suprised if they come out with support for only processors up to 100mhz. WoopdeeDO. Sony's new NR70 can easily do that right now. 66mhz, in addition to a current app that overclocks your PDA wouldnt be so far behind that. And im sure by the time they develope a program to overclock the ARM processor PDA's, Sony would have created a faster processor, of course, with the crappy regulation of Palmsource's stupid OS.

Well. Where do we start with this?

>>DO you really think Palmsource will let their new PDA's run 200-400MHZ!?!?!?

Well no i dont. But thats because PalmSource doesn't make PDAs - they only make the OS (and other related software). Palm is split into 2 completely seperate entities. PalmSource has zero control over what/how the hardware guys (called Palm Solutions now?) decide to do with the hardware.

>>I'm not suprised if they come out with support for only processors up to 100mhz.

Ummmm - Intel has already announced PalmOS compliant processors that at 200 and 400 MHZ. In theory, the ARM architecture can scale to at least 700Mhz (i originally heard 1.2 Ghz but can't confirm). Of course the practical limitation here is battery life - so we aren't likely to see 700Mhz PalmOS devices soon.

>>And im sure by the time they develope a program to overclock the ARM processor PDA's, Sony would have created a faster processor, of course, with the crappy regulation of Palmsource's stupid OS.

Sony doesn't build there own processors dip**** - they'll use Motorolla's (like they do now), Intel's, Texas Instruments, or whoever else build processors that are ARM architecture. As for 'Palmsource's stupid OS' - apparently Sony doesn't think it's stupid since they choose it to power YOUR HANDHELD.

You Sony freaks should stop and think before you make fools of your selves by continuously missing the point that Palm and PalmSource are 2 seperate companies. Why would you slam the OS when it is one half of the thing that defines your Clies as what they are?? Sony didn't choose PocketPC because they know that Microsoft doesn't allow you to do things like deviate from 320x240 resolution graphics. Anyway, slamming Palm is not the same as a Windows user slamming Macs - its more like a Dell or Compaq user slamming Windows.

BTW. I own a Sony t615 - so this isn't a case of being 'defensive' about Palm.

i like these fonts better than thinfonthack though.

cyruski!

Lubak's high-res fonts with FontHack123 look almost as good if not better than the emulator shots of OS 5.

I do hope that someone compes up with a prog. that allows hacks to be used. They do make the palm so much more usefull I find that it is one of the things that make my palm 'mine' when I use someone else's palm that does not have 'my' hacks, it is like typing on a Dvorak keyboard, you can do it but you have to think about it too much.

= = =
LC =
= = =

Like the Zaurus? lol im messing around. the only reason im picking the Clie NR70 over the Zaurus is the AV remote tho. I love the design on the Zaurus, but it needs a jog dial. I like the Clie, but it needs OS5...

Actually 320x480 is HVGA (or half VGA)...

Handera has had software grafitti for a year now. Did you miss it? Oh, and you can actually control when you want to minimize it instead of having Sony decide for you.

Sure you can control the VG? How many apps support Handera? Sony does not control it. It leaves it to 3rd party developer. That is better to have current apps crashed all the time. The extra space is useless if it is not supported by the apps and only adds compatibility problems.

hey, Hey, HEY, careful about the old VW beetles, your really hitting low now ....... -)

I doubt many apps will be written for Sony's NR series (320x480) since only a few people will ever buy it.

go away, troll. go use your pocket pc and go back under the bridge.

Silly as it is, icons look does count. You stare for the rest of that Handheld life. COme on, at least have some really stylish icons update for once instead of tired recoloring of old icons.

you mean it is not possible to design something new, interesting but yet intuitive?

we are not talking about replacing the icon with some ultra modern simulacra of objects here.....

just spiff up the darned thing with something more interesting, that's all.

The most intuitive user interface for current users is the one they're already using. Changing something with an installed user interface just for the point of change will just add to the total frustration level of the universe. I personally really like the facelift of the new icons, while preserving the simple but functional launcher UI that Palm has had since OS 3.0.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

"The most intuitive user interface for current users is the one they're already using. Changing something with an installed user interface just for the point of change will just add to the total frustration level of the universe. I personally really like the facelift of the new icons, while preserving the simple but functional launcher UI that Palm has had since OS 3.0."

now what would be nice is that if the icons in os5 were animated of some sort when clicked on. nothing drastic. but like when u click and hold on the memo icon that the page rips off or on the phone one that it looks like it rings. that would be kool but not too differnt since all of us dont click and hold on the icons. [of course this goes to a previous post i had that said that there should be a pop-down menu when u click and hold on the icon that gives u options...sorta like mac and beos]
~twizza [unlogged and supposed to be doing research on oil drilling :\ ]

so it's near the end of OS 4 and you tell me that you do not even know there's also a Graffiti Program in your OS 4 Palm too?

oops...

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

what would be nice is that if when u installed an input/grfatti replacement program tht it would be accessible via the grfatti icon and from there you could configure it to ur tastes.

Just an update:
I've just checked the Palm Developer pavilion and they've posted a new simulator for OS5 along with a SDK.

So if you wanna develop software for OS5 register and download.

I'm registered at palmos.com, but currently i cannot get the PalmOS 5 simulator. Where must i go to when i have logged in?

There haven't been any indications that PalmOS 5 is going to support software graffiti natively.

The fact that the photos from PalmSource really don't prove anything. I'm not sure what you mean by "the old developer edition didn't have [the graffiti] graphic" the emulator shows a graffiti area. I'm not sure about the Mac Simulator, but that's a completely different program from the OS 5 Simulator, despite the name.

SONY already made it happened on Palm OS 4.1 on their Clie NR series.

What Palm. Inc is developing is ALWAYS 1.5 years slower then SONY.

I spent the evening pouring over the 'draft' preview copy of the PalmOS 5 SDK documentation and there isn't any reference to Virtual Grafitti anywhere - i looked through the Palm API Reference and the Palm OS Companian and could find anything. I even did a keyword search of the documents.

Isn't effective UI design is what modern consumer PC is all about?

All the talk about simplicity of buttons, etc. Now that we have more CPU power, why not desing better UI so user can work faster/interact more effectively?

ie. skip the sacrifice of the original UI design caused by hardware limitation.

If Palm doesn't do this. Let's just say they fail to innovate in one MAJOR aspect of good PDA.

not necessarily copying PPC, but some aspect of current Palm interface is definitely need improving. File organisation would be a good example.

They said the first OS5 device is going to be wireless, so my guess is it will be what people wanted over a year ago, an m515 with 320x320 screen and integrated Bluetooth for wireless (making the BT SD card irrelevant), except with an ARM processor. Same proprietary 'universal' connector, same substandard SD slot, maybe even a static discharge 'feature' to boot...

an interesting question would be:

Is a square screen a common product? It seems to be the odd duck on the industry. Most product out there seems to be QVGA/HVGA/etc....

I mean will one day Palm producing a perfectly squre computer tablet at quadruple resolution? That would definitely look as comfy as holding a CD jewel box on single hand.

As long as layout is in terms of absolute pixels, developers will have to worry about every single device separately, and users can never be sure whether some application is going to work well on the new high resolution device they have. Pixel doubling is not the answer. What PalmOS needs is layout support in its GUI. It's absolutely sad that any platform sold in 2002 can still have layout as primitive as that found in PalmOS.

Sorry, but OS 5 standardizes APIs for things like hi-res and audio that were not before. Developers will now be able to take better advantage of those features without fear that they are developing code that would be wasted in the future.

Palm has already demonstrated that OS 5 is faster than the current OS, and that is before any optimizations we will likely see in the future. I don't know what you expect Palm to provide. This is just an OS, and it all comes down to what application developers do with it. The current OS already has a real filesystem and seamless access to expansion media.

> PalmOS does not have a file system and the way it
> handles files/databases on memory cards is horrible

The Palm OS absolutlely does have a file system. VFS allows you to create, manipulate and delete files and directories. That is what a filesystem is. On the various platforms it works the same way with various media types like SD, CF, Memory Stick or whatever. If you dig around on the Palm website they discuss how VFS is designed to allow for other underlying filesystems like NFS and others to be supported though VFS. How applications take advantage (or more often fail to take advantage) of that support is up to the application developers. Complain to them, not Palm.

> Certain programs and databases can only be run from main memory

You are correct, *certain* programs do have problems. Poorly written ones. A large percentage have no problems.

> What kind of crack are you smoking? [ ... ] one must use hacks

You need to learn what an operating system does versus what applications do (and possibly some manners). Palm OS 4.x provides means to run appications from expansion cards, and it provides a standard filesystem API, VFS, to access and manipulate data on those cards. If an application fails to use or properly support those features, there is nothing the OS can do about it. Yes, there are clever hacks that help you get around those problems in the applications, but you should not need those hacks if applications were fixed to work properly with the OS.

> With a true filesystem, it is not up to the application
> programmer to make a distinction between main memory
> and expansion memory

Despite typical comsumer confusion, expansion memory (flash memory cards) are not memory like RAM you would stick in your PC. Flash cards are really not any different than if you could stick a floppy disk in your PDA. Everything on the flash card is files, there is no memory. Conversely, I can guarantee that you will crash your PC if you pull the RAM out of it.

Main memory on current Palms is treated exactly like the RAM on your PC. It is where the currently loaded programs reside. That is memory, there is no filesystem. There apparently seems to be a RAM disk in the OS 5 emulator (which would be a filesystem) if that makes you feel any better.

I agree somewhat with the original poster. In my view, Palm has a problem making good use of expansion cards. Just imagine that you purchased an office computer that had no ability to view the files on your external media (Zip disks [yuck], floppies, external drives, etc). Just assume that you could not find the individual files that might be on the external media until you openned Photoshop to look for Photoshop files, and Word to look for Word files, and Access to look for Access files. What a mess!

Isn't that what you have with Palm right now? No integrated "Windows Explorer"? Sure, some companies out there are making explorers for the Palm. However, shouldn't that be in the OS??? To that extent, I agree with the original poster.

Multithreading is the other thing that bugs the heck out of me with the current OS. I use Palm Reader and WordSmith to read books on the run. When I run across a word I don't know, I like to make a note of it to look up later. To do that, I have a simple HandBase database of unique words and definitions. Do you know how hard it is to stop one program, start the other, do what you have to do to paste in the new word, close that program and go back to your reading program? Yuck! It takes forever!

On the other hand, Palm has taken small steps in development, and I believe this has allowed them to maintain incredible stability in the underlying OS. If it's a question of stability over functionality, in the past I've leaned toward stability. However, I think it's time that Palm get a move on in development. Palm shouldn't rest on the laurels of simplicity and stability in this market. It's only the folks who read sites like this one who really can understand and implement an end-to-end solution with the Palm OS as it is today. I've been using Palms since the Palm Pro days. I use my Palm constantly. However, I even have trouble trying to figure out all of this card/VFS stuff. Do I need PiDirect? Do I need PowerRun? Do I need Launcher III? I really don't know, and I consider myself fairly up to date on all of this stuff! I love my Palm, but I want the company to fix some of this ASAP, or at least publish a book of how you fix the OS to work like other computers.

JBH

Hmmm. My Windows XP notebook has a file browser in the OS. My office computer running Windows 2000 has a file browser in the OS. My old Macintosh computer had a file browser in the OS. Gosh, I think Linux has file browsers in the OS. Come to think of it, Unix even has a file browser in the OS. Hey, even in days before Microsoft programs like Dr. DOS had a stupid file browser in the OS. Hmmm. Even in pre-Macintosh days you could access the media on an Apple to see and move individual files from place to place. I think you'd call that a file browser, if I'm not mistaken. You know, even my FTP site has a file browser. Almost all of the programs I use have file browser support, but that is generally piggypacked off of the file browser build into the OS.

I'm curious. Exactly what OS do you know of that does not have a file browser built in??? Not Mac. Not old Apples. Not DOS. Not Dr.DOS. Not Windows. Not PocketPC. Not Linux. Not Unix. Not nothing that I know of. . . . I'm not sure about Pocket Linux (Sharp), but I make an educated guess that they've got one.

The key issue here is whether or not you can do with your Palm what you can do with your office computer. The current Palm philosophy seems to be that you can use individual programs, but the programs and the data for those programs must be segregated from other programs. You can't make a file with shortcuts to associated data of different types. That may be a simple approach that prevents a lot of programming concerns. However, it's not how people think.

JBH

who cares about what theoritical minimum function of OS suppose to be, a customer wants to see and manipulate file transparantly and consistantly across all applications. We are talking about busy soccer mom as a PDA user here not a Unix geek heading ans IT department. She wants to flip quickly all her son's match picture between email apps, paint apps, and SD card. She maybe also probably want to stick the picture onto her word processing file.

And that cannot be achieved with current palm thinking.

PDA is an information tool, and a person has to jump all the hoops to play with all his information that tool is not efficient. And current Palm inplementation is in danger of turning into absolute tangled spagetti.

unless you have some radical paradigm of file object. Or super smart apps that know where to get user data file automatically. I think we will stuck with file browsing for all users.

ie. the soccer mom still needs to hunt down that picture file to be used in various different apps. She might have to hunt the picture file for email apps, or word processing apps to make and distribute simple flyer for eg.

and this situation will increase as more apps are interacting with each other and use common file. I am talking about user's data file here, not OS internal. And that is where file browser interface matter the most to user.

>> The average PDA user DOES want to be able to plug in a memory card, and read and write to it easily without having to use a third-party utility or having to remember which programs can be run from the card, which can't, what databases can be run from the card, etc. This functionality will not be present in OS5, rather it will still use the current, ghetto-ized memory card system. <<

Exactly! I want the ability to put my related Quicksheet files with related WordSmith files, just like I do on my desktop. That functionality is lacking in the Palm. The Palm paradigm will hit a brick wall in the very, very near future if Palm does does not realize that people will reject the device if it does not "feel" familiar to them. To me, the lack of seamless individual data file manipulation brings the entire system right up to that brick wall. The system is not enough like what people have on their laptops, desktops and office computers.

And I don't care whether the file explorer is embedded in the OS or is its own program. The important thing is that the software is there, in the box, and accessible by programs running on the device. Today, the software ain't in the box. I have to go look for it on the web and try to find ways to hack into VFS cards to do some of what I want to do. I shouldn't have to do that. Today, I'm using a USB card reader, and I use my Windows Explorer to read and write to the card and move things around. Life should be easier! I should not be calling on Windows to a function that I say should be inherent in the Palm, whether it be in the OS or just on the device. Today, it's missing.

JBH

> And the point has been proven that OS5 indeed lacks a
> true filesystem including seamless memory card access.

We are right back to the top again. That is absolute bull. No such thing "has been proven".

The ability for applications to load/save/choose files from card is completely the application's responsibility. The operating system can only provide the means for applications to do that. The operating system does that now, not OS 5, NOW.. Application developers have failed almost completely (one can probably count the exceptions on one hand) to take advantage of it.

If you want a file browser on your Palm, get FileMan or McFile or one of those apps. Ask Palm to include one as an app with the OS 5 release. I already said this once, but there is no way of knowing what applications Palm will include (or how the existing ones might change) with the OS 5 release. Looking at this developer test tool (OS 5 Simulator) is absolutely the wrong way of determining what applications might be included with the OS 5 release.

It is clear from the posts here that you (in general terms) fail realize how application developers have utterly failed to use the OS provided file system support for expansion media.

>>> It is clear from the posts here that you (in general terms) fail realize how application developers have utterly failed to use the OS provided file system support for expansion media.
---

Did you not understand when I explained why it is not the responsibility of the application programmer to distinguish between built-in space and expansion space when reading and writing data? Any OS in which this is necessary is ghetto. Once any expansion device has been properly mounted by the OS, writing to it and reading from it should be seamless this is the case for any OS with a real filesystem. A third party application such as FileMan or McFile should not be necessary. The fact that memory card access is not seamless is a flaw.

> However, do you know what you would have to do [at
> least as a hobbyist] to write the routines to access
> cards and move things around on them visually?
> Creating the forms alone would drive you nuts.

Alone? There is nothing to do other than create the forms, which is not as difficult as you claim. Once you have the forms, you can reuse them. Though I do agree that Palm should provide standard file selection dialogs. Someone could just as simply create a shared library to do this though.

> Then you would have to worry about creating
> something that would work with VFS cards and CF
> cards [Handera]

They work exactly the same, they all use VFS. Nothing to worry about.

> you would have to come up with methods of
> syncronizing the information

Palm is developing new synchronization software. It is unknown (at least to me) at this point what it supports. Still, even the meaning of synchronizing info on cards is non-trivial and a developer must decide what they want their app to do, if anything, with info on card(s), and write software to support that.

> Even the best programmers in the world have only
> done fairly reasonable jobs so far in creating such
> a solution.

Please! Probably less than a dozen developers have attempted a real solution. Dumb hacks that try to stick with the status quo don't count.

>> If you are unhappy with how one of your applications works with data on cards, tell the application developer about it. Palm cannot fix it for them.<<

You must work for Palm. No one else would suggest that every developer in the world must create their own novel solution to this underlying issue without some lead work by the company that build the OS. People want an out-of-the-box, end-to-end solution, and Palm does not offer that currently. Attempts to really "use" the expansion cards turns into an Internet equivalent to the Quest for the Holy Grail, trying to find the mystical and arguable non-existent perfect file browser. Unfortunately, no one has yet been able to provide what the company has thus far failed to address. People want a solution IN THE BOX. You can't blame every developer in the world for not developing something that is not in the box. It's Palm's job to put stuff in the box, and if every developer in the world is just ignorant of the company's perfect file system and expansive expansion capabilities, then the company should do something to show them the light, by putting something in the box! Palm should add file browser capability to some stupid core program like the Memo Pad and then make the file browser routines and forms freely available.

JBH

Well, I have a sony clie (n760c) and as far as I know all sony devices include a file browsing utility called MS Gate. It shows the there is a directory heirarchy on the cards BUT the fact remains that with out hacks, the OS cannot launch apps from the card without copying them to memory first. That is what I would like to see fixed.

I don't get you people. Based on this screen shot you are all saying that OS 5 is a letdown? This can only be because you have fabricated yr own idea of what to expect - despite the fact that Palm and others have TOLD US what was going to be in Palm OS 5 for months now. For the tenth time, here is the plan:

-OS 5: move to ARM processors to allow CPU speeds up to 1GHZ, native support of hi-res and improved Audio (good 'cause prior to this PalmOS had no real audioto speak of), SSl and other encryption. This sounds like 'real innovations' to me. Or do you have a PPC that runs at 1Ghz with 320x320 color screen?

-OS 6: Multi-tasking(32-bit), redesigned interface.
Anyway, my main point is that we already new what was in OS 5 months ago (and you would have to if you had been following PIC), so what are you guys b*tching about?

I know what the plan is for the new OS', but in your rant about my "bitching" you failed to answer a simple question: What is an EDUCATED guess on when OS6 will come out?

Your right about me having a false idea of what OS5 would be like, but I was hoping for something more then what appears to be on the way. Lets cry and get exasperated, want to?

When I spoke with Mike Mace from PalmSource a couple months ago, he said they were hoping to have the next version of the operating system out 6 to 9 months after OS 5. That puts it around the first quarter 2003.

BTW, don't get too set on it being called "OS 6". As far as I know, they haven't officially picked a name.

---
News Editor

you are basing your 1Ghz claim on THAT slide? It's very laughable. If believing Palm's slide is true, we should have camera, GPS, modem and Wi-Fi SD card by now. Instead of BT card that just barely work with no application.

Palm couldn't care less if what they put on slide describing the future of other corporation product is real or not. It sounds good, the'll put it.

Palm Marketing Slide.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/
images/img_PS02_KN1_Future_L.JPG

PS. It's pretty amusing re-reading a slide where Palm is talking about 6 years into the future, when they can barely show a clear roadmap 2 yrs into the future.

4K for memo is okay. Read my lips - IT IS FOR MEMO not DOCs! you want to write a novel, you use a Doc program. Get a life.