Comments on: iambic Registers Domain with Rival's Product Name

Several days ago, iambic registered the two new domain names. However, these weren't for products it makes. Instead, they were the names of some of its top competitor's products. On May 2, iambic registered DateBk4.com and DateBk5.com and directed them to its page for its calendar application, Action Names Datebook. DateBk4 and DateBk5 are two versions of a rival calendar application made by Pimlico Software.

Update: iambic's CEO has announced that his company has surrendered the two domains and he apologized for registering them in the first place.

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Palm Info Center

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 5:36:39 PM #
And palm infocenter is busy trying to capitalize on it.

Im sure he is trying to get this article slashdotted now.

We know your ILK palminfocenter editor, like a vulture!

RE: Palm Info Center
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 5:38:23 PM #
Troll, go somewhere else. Those of us that are pissed at Iambic are THRILLED to see a headline on this now, instead of buried on the page about the DateBk5 release. Thanks, Ed!!

The article on news.com is up now, cute headline they came up with.

RE: Palm Info Center
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 5:41:12 PM #
Don't try to divert attention to the real "villains" here...that being iambic and their unethical domain name redirections. PIC and other sites like it are merely reporting the facts that transpired.

I would commend Palm InfoCenter and several other Palm related sites for being objective and giving the two parties an opportunity to respond before posting articles on the matter. If they were as unethical and profiteering as iambic, they all certainly could have posted some sensationalized article early yesterday, without giving each side a chance to present their side of the story. But they did not. PIC (and most other sites) did the RIGHT thing and waited gathered facts before going forward.

Your statement, while you are entitled to make it, is certainly uninformed, biased and one that smacks of an attempt by "interested party" to shift attention away from its ill-conceived cybersquatting plan.

Kudos to Palm InfoCenter on its journalistic integrity!

RE: Palm Info Center
WhoDat @ 5/8/2002 11:30:52 PM #
First of all look at the name of this website, Palm INFO Center. This Iambic/DateBk thing is Palm community information. Saying that PIC is capitalizing on it is like accusing The Weather Channel of capitalizing on rain. IT'S their job, it's why people check this site on a regular basis.

Second, if you don't like PIC, you can probably type in a different website and just not visit.

Third, this didn't start as its own topic. The discussion began as a thread in the DateBk released article. Then this topic quickly sprung legs. Next, Iambic responded. BAM, it's a story in its own right.

Fourth, this is a great topic and likely being viewed in other industries. It calls out ethics of the web, as well as, responsibility by companies to prevent this happening to them.

Finally, this is by far the best site for PalmOS information, period. The people that visit, geeky as we may be, want to know what's going on.

Keep up the great work Ed.

RE: Palm Info Center
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 1:30:27 AM #
Boy, are you looking at the back of your own teeth!

Well Done To The Palm Community

WolfUK @ 5/8/2002 5:35:36 PM #
A big congratulations to the Palm community in general and the PIC community especially. Work of Iambic's behavior spread quickly and generally met with universal disbelief and I am delighted that Palm users felt strongly enough to email Iambic, post in various newsgroups and in site forums and generally spread the word. I hope that Iambic have now learnt the error of their ways and that cheap tactics like this will not be supported or tollerated.

As for the outcome, I would like to see them make a contribution to the gorillas as way of amends.

RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:51:28 PM #
I was on the verge of buying Iambic's product when I read about this. I went straight over and bought DateBk5 from Pimlico and sent letters to each explaining why. I hope the PR flacks at Iambic choke on the one I sent them...! :-)
RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
Caspian @ 5/8/2002 10:39:16 PM #
I agree that it was very heartening to see the Palm community come together on this issue. But, it looks like we have not won a complete victory. I would like to see Iambic give the pirated domain names to Pimlico and give a large donation to the fund that the Pimlico software sales supports. I would also like to see a clear and public _admission_ that Iambic's actions were a misguided attempt to capitalize on the release of a competitor's new product along with an unqualified _apology_ to Pimlico and the Palm community.

Their "press release" takes us all for fools and is an insult to the user community.

I have deleted the one Iambic application that I had on my PDA and will buy no more until I see an immediate and sustained change in their actions. They cannot afford to sit around on this. If it takes them a few more days to do the right thing, I will never buy another Iambic product and will actively advise other users not to also.

RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:45:38 AM #
Hi all,

i can't believe what i'am reading. It's obvious that it was a mystake, and iambic regret cerntanly this. I am customer from Europe (read my post down).

Since the beginning, i bought Action Names. iambic was the first company in Palm OS software with a REAL tech support for european people. Unfortunately, my english is not fluent. Since i buy a Palm Vx (now a Sony high res), iambic always follow me (and for god sake i'm not a genius!!) even when my question concern the Palm himself. And in French. I had always a good feeling with them since this tech support, and i always have the feeling that iambic was different of the other company because of the time they spend with me. Now i learn all this story and i find it's completely amazing that such a story take this proportion.

People have to be clever. "iambic have to remove their link", ok. "iambic have to die for this" it's completely crazy. For me, i can't dissociate iambic with the palm, because action names datebook is the only application i always use in my palm (and it's far better than datebook according to me).
But if the company die, i won't have any reason to stay with a palm device because the pim was the only reason for me to prefere palm than Pocket PC. I hear that agenda fusion was like Action Names, i will probably try it.

I respect everyone, and i hope that pimlico association will grow, i am in humanitary assocaition myself. But don't be silly. iambic is a large actor of palm software , and from Europe, Palm is dying. Some company like iambic are a large part of success of Palm in Europe.
I respect every opinion. Please respect mine.

Well done the palm community.

You are killing one of our best company software.

This is really great for Palm OS.

RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:02:22 AM #
While I agree that this may permanently ruin Iambic's reputation and they may have done much to warrant the good buzz they had before, they took the action that led to this backlash. Even if they hadn't anticipated this level of a reaction, expecting *something* should be a given.
RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 12:45:39 PM #
"You are killing one of our best company software. "

If this incident is indicative of future actions of this company, then I say good riddance to bad blood...

RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
Mor @ 5/9/2002 2:55:26 PM #
So What? I have no problem with Iambic's tactics. I thought it was clever. However, I probably wouldn't link the domains directly to Iambic's site. I'd link them to fair product comaparisons pages and sales write-ups in Iambic's advantage. I believe in "if you sooze, you lose."

Maryland - Home of the 2002 NCAA Men's Basketball National Champions - Terps!
RE: Well Done To The Palm Community
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:58:14 PM #
>> I believe in "if you sooze [sp], you lose."

And I unequivocally disagree!!! Were they clever? Yes. (Though "underhanded" is a better adjective, I believe.) Were they legal? Perhaps. But were they *moral*? Absolutely NOT. And that is the point. I am so gratified to see the Palm community so indignant over this issue--it shows that integrity still counts among a great number of people.

Brad

Registered or not, here we come...

mdyesowitch @ 5/8/2002 5:38:59 PM #
While it's true that Pimlico could have registered the names, it's easy to see why a nonprofit application would be content with one sitename. For Iambic who only needs to sell at most 7 copies of actionnames to register both domains for 2 years, it's practically nothing.

Well, it's not exactly nothing. It's still moderately sleezy even if it's legal.
-m


RE: Registered or not, here we come...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 7:15:21 PM #
If Iambic had registered domains like "datebook" or "palmdatebook" or even just "datebk", I might raise an eyebrow a bit, but would let it go. But since
they choose the _actual_ names of Pimlico programs "datebk4" and "datebk5", I shouted a big "WTF?".
- marcus
RE: Registered or not, here we come...
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 2:36:54 AM #
Iambic's Cybersquatting is a potentially dangerous move for them, not just in terms of extremely poor public relations, but also legally. Check out this article at: http://www.hg.org/art141.html

Personally, I think that Steuart Dewar has far too much class to wade into this quagmire, but the official statement from Iambic does not ring true. It's pretty obvious that Iambic was intending on driving internet traffic intended for pimlico products to their site.

Especially when you consider that Iambic has also bought keywords from Google on the Adwords program for:
Quickoffice
Quicksheet
Minicalc
Documents To Go
Datebk4
Datebk5

*sigh* I'm sure some folks will say this is just good old business competition practices, but I consider it shameful :-(

RE: Official statement received
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:11:43 PM #
It's nice that they feel they have the "right" to register the domain names that match their competitor's products...they apparently don't know that ethics is not about what is legal, but what is proper. There are lots of activities out there that may be within a business' legal rights, but that doesn't mean it is good business ethics to do them.

To issue a statement from the company's PR rep, rather than the company prez, that says they were within their rights to register the datebk domains goes to show this company hasn't a clue. No apologies or anything. Sheesh.

Statement from iambic

Ed @ 5/8/2002 6:05:53 PM #
I have updated the article with an official statement from an iambic spokespeson on this issue.

---
News Editor
Official statement received
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:06:26 PM #
RE: Official statement received
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:09:34 PM #
well, it looks like they got the hell out of the kitchen!
RE: Statement from iambic
PDA Guy @ 5/8/2002 6:11:19 PM #
"(and the abbreviation "datebk")"

Oh yeah, LOTS of people abbreviate DateBook like that...

<rolls eyes>

Nice try on spinning, but it doesn't explain a lot. And won't get your customers back that you've lost either...

RE: Statement from iambic
ardiri @ 5/8/2002 6:13:49 PM #
"(and the abbreviation "datebk")"

Oh yeah, LOTS of people abbreviate DateBook like that...

lets note specifically that it had to be datebk4 and datebk5 (exact spelling of product released by their competitor). their statement doesn't mention anything about the removal of posts from their forums, nor the banning of users from their forums. it took them almost an entire day to figure out that it was a problem (and, then, write a short explanation). this is a PR stunt gone wrong - big time. now, iambic and datebk are known everywhere, both of them getting traffic, which means sales.. who are the losers here? the users. :) this publicity just made a few people richer... not posting on the subject would have been the best thing. i dont condone iambics actions (they should know what they did was wrong) :) they are treading on very thin ice - and, its not nice to be in their position right now (been there myself)

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:26:11 PM #
That statement from Iambic justs shows how totally gutless they are. To not accept any cupability in this, and claim it was all just innocent and not an attempt to steal traffic from CESD....how dumb do they think we are?!?? Their behavior these last couple days, from the cybersquatting, to their censoring of comments on their board with no response, to this "spin" statement, just proves to me that they are a company with no values at all.
RE: Statement from iambic
Pentagonal @ 5/8/2002 6:30:13 PM #
This response shows no remorse whatsoever, and the "Datebk" abbreviation defense is a baldfaced lie. I'm insulted that they thought we would fall for such a weak response. Their ethical shortcomings become more apparent.

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:30:51 PM #
Hey Arron! Cool, a color of Diety3D coming soon!!! hey iambic did a bad thing but lets not forget that their software isn't bad, they make good contributions to the PalmOS Community...this was just a mistake!
RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:42:31 PM #
I could accept a mistake....IF they had come forward and admitted it was a mistake (something they STILL haven't done), if they turned the domains over to CESD, and if they apologized to their users for deleting all their posts off their Forums. They not only made a mistake, they tried to cover it up and keep us quiet, and tell us they had every right to do what they did, etc. etc. Nope, I don't care ONE BIT if their software is good. I will never buy it again.
RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 7:50:38 PM #
It is not just Datebook products, Iambic. It is your ethics. You are hoping that this thing would go away -Kiss, Hug and Forget. Yes, probably - forget, forget about buying Iambic Products.

Redirecting into a blank page is unethicals as well. You have to redirect it in Pimlico Software. Here is the right URL for it!

http://www.pimlicosoftware.com/datebk5.htm

Vidal are you reading this! Clean up your missed. Wipe your self now. Here are some tissues you just ...

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 8:38:46 PM #
"Ethics and strong customer support have always been the cornerstone of iambic's success."

If these are what they consider ethics, how must their customer service be?

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:07:48 PM #
I take offense that the moron sitting in Iambic takes us for morons. We are not and he/she better stop treating us as one. As for Ardiri's comments that this could have been a Hollywood-type plug and generated free publicity for Iambic and Pimlico, well, it may have benefitted Pimlico but I doubt that moron at Iambic was clever enough to use this trick as a plug for their product.

Going by what we see here and elsewhere, despite their "PR" statement a lot of the Palm Community are still furious about their unethical practice. Trying to weasel out of it is almost as pathetic as doing it in the first place.

And not addressing the issue of censoring their customers from their forums goes to show that their intention was not genuine in the first place as claimed otherwise in their statement.

I always had a bit of a trouble deciding on some of the similar products from Iambic and others. I guess for me now, I will always consider others before I would even touch Iambic.

RE: Statement from iambic
Patrick @ 5/8/2002 9:15:42 PM #
It is good to see people not losing sight of the real issues. Iambic targetted specific competitor product names, not generic variants of "DateBook".

In addition, the censorship on their forums should beg the question about what other types of topics have been ... adjusted? If someone were to gripe, for example, about a serious bug in one of their applications, can anyone trust ever again that it would be made available for others to see?

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:40:29 PM #
"Ethics and strong customer support have always been the cornerstone of iambic's success."

Should this be read as "It depends on your definition of sexual intercourse..."

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 5:29:20 AM #
Aaron Ardiri, you'd better hurry up and register www.deity3d.com before iambic makes another "innocent" mistake and takes it first!
RE: Statement from iambic
ardiri @ 5/9/2002 10:49:37 AM #
    Aaron Ardiri, you'd better hurry up and register www.deity3d.com before iambic makes another "innocent" mistake and takes it first!

i believe such "cybersquatting" in this case only really matters if the other party is actually capable of writing software like the domain they are stealing (think about it) :)

Iambic could have posted a better statement regarding this whole issue - and i thought i got flamed way back *g* - *phew*


// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/

RE: Statement from iambic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 1:18:17 PM #
Hey Aaron!
When will you release a VFS compatable update of HaCkMe? The prcs are cluttering up my RAM!
(PS- I love this program )

Only 2 domains

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:09:20 PM #
Amazing to see how much press this story has gotten in the past day! I've seen it here, News.com, Brighthand, and PDA Buzz.

I know some others registered domains in addition to me. Want to set the record straight, I only registered datebk6 and datebk7 another loyal user registered the datebk domain.

Glad to see so much support!

Griff

RE: Only 2 domains
Ed @ 5/8/2002 6:25:44 PM #
Thanks Keith. I checked with VeriSign and DateBk.com (and .org and .net) were registered by Ted Tschopp and they all also point to Pimlico's site.

---
News Editor

New site for Action Names refugees

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:43:58 PM #
I just started a new group entitled an2datebk (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/an2datebk/).

This group is to assist former users of Action Names with the transition to Datebk products. I have seen many a post today from Iambic customers who have deleted Action Names and will need assistance to get up and running with Datebk.

If you have some spare time and are a Datebk veteran, please join us in the new group to help new members of the Datebk community.

I prefer Action Names
MadMax @ 5/8/2002 9:31:07 PM #
I'm going to stay out of the editorials. I must say that as an avid Palm user [power user], Datbk seems like a fat convoluted pig. Not just in memory size, but in it's cumbersom interface. I've tried many times to use it when a new version comes out. The one basic task I need to do is:
Schedule an appointment with someone in my address book. Yeah, I know I can link to a name but, I want to look at my calander and see that at 2pm on Friday I have a meeting with Doe, John. I can't seem to get Datbk to do this! If I'm doing something wrong, let me know-
I prefer Action Names

RE: New site for Action Names refugees
rldunn @ 5/8/2002 11:03:33 PM #
Click on a time, hit the "L" link button, choose a name from the list, and make sure the option in the popup window for 'Append to Description Field' is chosen, and then the name (and/or company and/or phone number, if chosen) will show up in the selected slot.

RE: Also prefer Action Names
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:48:51 AM #
I have tried both and even though I made a two week valiant attempt to like Datebk (it seems that there is SO much support for it) I found myself deleting it and JackFlashing Action Names back into my ROM. It's interface is simpler, easier to navigate and has much better support for the Address book. (Not to mention being much smaller...)
Frankly, far from being upset by these evil business practices... I think it's kind of funny! :-)

The biggest complaints I have seen are that there are no categories for appointments, which I have found can be easily worked around by using icons and filtering the list according to what icon is on the appointment, and that you can't link an appointment to multiple contacts... which is a good time to add a note to the appointment with those contacts.

Has anyone seen ActNames on the new Clie NR70? Awesome...

Yes it's kinda wrong, but really, most who care already use Datebk!

Long Live Iambic and their sleazy business practices!

DateBk5 is worth learning!
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 2:50:02 AM #

I am frequently amazed at just how powerful a tool DateBk3/4/5 is -- it's very worthwhile learning to use templates saved views categories and the various ways of filtering and viewing your data.


Sure the (now 101 page) manual is a little daunting, but the time invested in getting to understand the capabilities and setting them up to work for your personal situation will pay-off in spades.


Easily my most essential application *and* it's by the developer (CESD) for whom I have the deepest respect and admiration!


Cheers!



RE: New site for Action Names refugees
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:36:16 AM #
yeah right! Action Names is clearly a better product - you can pick it up and use it right away. a personal contact manager / datebook should make you more efficient. thats the bottom line.
Action Names - ready out of the box
MadMax @ 5/10/2002 11:17:28 AM #
That's how I feel too. (It's like Windows software was in the mid 90's.) You can go on and on customizing. Pretty soon, you're customizing more than your "Doing". When it takes more time to enter a TODO than it does to "DO" a TODO, the purpose is defeated.
I have tried desperately to "use" datbk. It's just not user friendly.

Enhanced Datebooks
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 1:51:01 PM #

Hey, I'm not saying that ActionNames isn't a good program -- for some people, particularly those whose schedules are predominantly contacts-related, it is a great solution.


(For other people, the built-in Datebook application suits their needs fine for others, LifeBalance is "da bomb" for others...). One of the great things about the PalmOS is that there is typically a selection of great software in any given category, and we are free to find the one that suits our personal needs best. Different strokes for different folks...


I'm not going to slag someone over their preference for another application - whatever works FOR YOU.


That being said, there's no question that DateBk5 is the most powerful and flexible datebook replacement app available. Like any powerful, flexible tool you have to RTFM and learn to use it. AN may be easier to use out-of-the-box and have a smaller memory footprint but it is a lot less capable than DateBk5.


Personally, I find DateBk5 to be an extremely efficient utility for managing what feels like an insanely complex web of responsibilities and demands on my time. I feel efficient and on top of things. And that makes me feel good! :-)



Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 6:50:06 PM #
Since most non power-users don't visit forums it would be better to write reviews about Action Names mentioning their dirty business practices.

Here you can post reviws: www.palmgear.com www.handango.com

By doing that normal people will see the review beafore they buy. Also while at it you can comment on the buggyness of Action Names.

Iambic has been very abusive, they are a corporation while PimlicoSoftware is a charity organization run by just one man.


RE: Let's hit iambic where it hurts
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 7:59:36 PM #
Great idea!

Let's all delete our iambic products while we're at it. Suggestions for replacements?

RE: Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 8:01:41 PM #
Dump iambicOffice and replace with Quick Office or Docs to Go!
RE: Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:08:06 PM #
Palmgear ? forget about it! I post many times and none of them got posted.
RE: Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more
PR @ 5/8/2002 10:44:21 PM #
unfortunately, those won't work. they will only post if it relates directly to the use of the product, which kind of makes sense...

RE: Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more
stephen007 @ 5/9/2002 10:50:39 AM #
PalmGear & Handandgo both get a cut when people buy from their site so they're not going to post editorials regarding the product.

On the other hand, if it were related to the product...

Stephen

RE: Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:21:32 AM #
palmgear.com gave my review a reply that they only deal with reviews targeted on the product.

It appears that they are accepting these reviews as of May 9. The last "good" review of ActionNames was on April 23 from "iambic Support".

RE: Lets hit Iambic whre it hurts more
big_raji @ 5/9/2002 12:34:23 PM #
I noticed that one of my reviews for Action Names got posted on Palmgear.

Yay.

I don't like seeing negative reviews on Palmgear that may be fake... Mine is a real review on the product, but I never bothered to post it until this whole fiasco.

Let's not push for fake negative reviews. Let's push for real negative reviews to be made public.

-Raj Phangureh

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

Banning on Iambic forums

big_raji @ 5/8/2002 7:38:06 PM #
The bans that Iambic handed out on their forums still haven't been addressed. I posted a message on there asking about the domains. I did not flame Iambic, I merely asked why they had those domains pointing to their site.

I got banned...

From ALL the Iambic forums.

I am a user of TinySheet, which I bought long before this fiasco. Now, because I asked a question on their forums, I can no longer access those forums to get support for TinySheet.

I wonder if they will care enough to lift the ban.

I wonder if I'll care enough about whether or not they do.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Banning on Iambic forums, Ask for refund
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 8:02:00 PM #
I think if you are registered Iambic Product User and banned in their foums for just voicing your opinion. You should ask for refund. When you buy a product from them it includes support. Right Iambic?! When you could not extend support then you should refund the people who bought your product. It is not them who severe the relationship. It is you who banned them. Now, I could say that Iambic is not supporting their product because of their wrong doing. Now, the customers are getting punished.
RE: Banning on Iambic forums
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:22:54 PM #
Good point
RE: Banning on Iambic forums
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:27:35 PM #
I am reading what I posted above. I should have said, "It is them who severe the relationship" not the customer.
RE: Banning on Iambic forums
PR @ 5/8/2002 10:46:35 PM #
i agree, the same thing happened to me. banned from both forums, and when i sent an email about it, they just sent me this, with a copy of the statement they made above:

Hello,

thank you for your email, we highly value and appreciate users and
customers
feedback. I hope that the few lines below will provide an answer to your
concerns.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Best regards,

Adriano

~~~~~
Adriano Chiaretta
Engineering Manager and MIS Director
iambic, Inc.
www.iambic.com


RE: Banning on Iambic forums
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:38:36 AM #
Well, why don't you delete the cookie and try again?
RE: Banning on Iambic forums
wintermute @ 5/9/2002 7:25:29 AM #
I don't think that would work. they ban ur IP # when u connect to the internet. When I got banned, from forms, etc., I would just re-connect, because I get random IP #'s everytime I connect.

------------------------------------
http://pdan.has.it
------------------------------------
You don't want to grow old but you don't want to die young!
------------------------------------
RE: Banning on Iambic forums
big_raji @ 5/9/2002 8:32:10 AM #
It's my IP address that's banned. I pay for a static IP address, so I'm SOL.

I've sent off a request for a refund to Iambic. We'll see if they respond at all.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Banning on Iambic forums
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:28:54 AM #
go to www.anonymizer.com

They will hide you IP while you post on Iambic.

A temporary measure?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 8:10:22 PM #
"As a member of the Palm developer community, and order to move the discussion back on track, on May 8, 2002 we redirected these pages to a blank page."

...and I wonder how long it will be before they revert back to pointing at the Iambic website? We could run a sweepstake on this: put me down for two weeks!

Dryden


RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 8:41:41 PM #
Well, from my browser, as of 8:35pm EDT both datebk4.com and datebk5.com lead to iambic's site.
RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:03:57 PM #
Oh God, datebk4.com and datebk5.com is still redirected to iambic, 9:00pm EST, May8. Absolutely temporary!!!!!!!
RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:11:25 PM #
If you visit that site before, make sure you refresh it. You are seeing the page from your local cache. From my brower, which is pointing to a blank page.

RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:35:00 PM #
I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!! They really are redirecting back to Iambic's site again!!! I have caching turned off, and am on a computer that had not viewed those domains before anyway, and they definitely are going to Iambic. These people have no shame at all!!!!!
RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:45:54 PM #
Well, www.datebk5.com and www.datebk4.com do point to blank page.

However, datebk4.com and datebk5.com point to http://www.iambic.com/english/index_ie.html

RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:54:50 AM #
Hey, yes datebk4.com and datebk5.com still points to iambic. That shows that they are still don't give up! And the forum in their website is now moderated, can't believe it!!
RE: A temporary measure?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 6:58:40 AM #
Its funny...

I sent an e-mail to register.com and told them about what Iambic did and that it was illegal and now the site is directed to a blank page.

Go figure...

RE: A temporary measure?
wintermute @ 5/9/2002 7:28:21 AM #
I wouldn't think of it as illegal, wrong yes, but unless its a trademark, then it should be.

BTW, They've pointed back to the blank page. The LEAST they can do is atleast give both domains to Pimlico software to show they really feel sorry. Not even Microsoft would do such a thing! )

------------------------------------
http://pdan.has.it
------------------------------------
You don't want to grow old but you don't want to die young!
------------------------------------

RE: A temporary measure?
Kaitou @ 5/10/2002 9:28:45 AM #
Why would they do that? Remember the domains were pointing nowhere up to a few days ago when they bought them.

From the mouths of Sales

sandbuck @ 5/8/2002 8:15:18 PM #
A lawyer wrote a scathing open letter to iambic on this thread

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3421&MODE=FLAT#47655

I emailed that letter to sales@iambicsoftware.com with the subject "Bulk sales". How much do you want to bet that when sales read it they pitched a grand fit?Salespeople know the impact of bad PR (and low commisions) more than anyone else in a company.

This is a great day for the grass roots.



Pointless waste of time

nategall @ 5/8/2002 9:39:34 PM #
Geesh.

I thought it was funny that Datebk4/5 were reg-ed by Iambic, I mean what the heck, nobody else was using it. What about ILuvDateBk? Are you going to say I cannot use that?

Companies do not have the right to any instance of their name. Although it seems stupid for them to not have taken this name, if they don't learn...

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36210,00.html

if you are against this, you should also be against people paying search engines to show their ad when their competition is searched. Grow, up. We need less laws on the internet, not more.

having said all the above, it is kind of creepy that this happened. Is it suprising? no. and I like that it did happen. Remember the guy who had www.mypalm.com? Sure, that was slightly different, but to the law... they would loke the same. We do not need more controls set in place, let the customer vote (like you did in this case) and hopefully, common sense will prevail.

nategall says "blah!"

RE: Pointless waste of time
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:07:18 PM #
The reason I dont think it's funny is because I personally had slight problem finding the Datebk4 site when I was a newbie a couple of years ago. Someone had mentioned the program to me and I just wrote the name down. Later, I tried variations of "www.datebk4.com" and they didn't work. (This was before I knew about PalmGear, and I was an Internet newbie also so I didn't know alot about the search engines.) I ended up having the person beam the program to me, and found the website by looking at the "about" screen.

I bet there were other newbie's who did the same thing I did back then, and not knowing any better, downloaded AN instead of DateBk4/5.

I don't have a problem with people trying AN the program suits some people much better than DB, but it is dishonest to give someone one thing, when they _asked_ for another. - rana

RE: Pointless waste of time
volcanopele @ 5/8/2002 10:09:40 PM #
I would tend to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that they registered just datebook.com or datebk.com . As an Iambic Public Relations person said, bk is an abbreviation for book, though a rare one. However, Iambic registered datebk3.com, datebk4.com, and datebk5.com, all exact product names of Pimlico Software, their main competetors in the Palm datebook market. It would be as if Microsoft had registered netscape.com which redirecting visitors to the IE site or registering apple.biz and redirected it to Microsoft's site.

Now I will say that I am glad that Iambic took quick action to remove the redirect. I am not all that concerned that they redirect it to Pimlico's site. But they at the very least should have apologized for the actions to show good faith. The fact that they are not only not apologizing but refer to these recent complaints as insignificant. Please!

RE: Pointless waste of time
jjsoh @ 5/8/2002 11:10:38 PM #
: if you are against this, you should also be against
: people paying search engines to show their ad when
: their competition is searched. Grow, up. We need less
: laws on the internet, not more.

No, we need less indifference. Before we grow up, you should really pick a better analogy. What you wrote makes no sense (at least to me). Paying for advertisement for your own product is not wrong, but it's not the same as misleading the uninformed public by claiming that your competitor's product [name] is yours, only "abbreviated".

Maybe if unethical business practices weren't so common, we wouldn't be ranting about what iambic has done. Maybe if more people who believe in fair competition spoke up, Microsoft wouldn't be where they are (after all, THEY got to the top purely on ETHICAL business practices alone).

The worst people can do is just sit and wait for things to happen. You can do that, fine. That's your choice. But I, as well as countless others, cannot--especially when it's blantantly obvious that iambic felt it necessary to steal the names (as well as version numbers, mind you) of direct competitor's products.

So it has nothing to do with "growing up." What I took your statement as was: "Shut up and stop whining." Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure didn't sound constructive.

Less laws on the internet? You must love receiving spam and virii. Or worse, spread them? :P


Jim

RE: Pointless waste of time
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 5:33:27 AM #
My big problem with iambic is that I've always thought of Palm users as being a "community" that supports one another--we only fight with PocketPC folks! So even if their actions are legal, iambic's kind of lost the trust of the community.
RE: Pointless waste of time
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:06:33 AM #
> Maybe if unethical business practices weren't so
> common, we wouldn't be ranting about what iambic has
> done. Maybe if more people who believe in fair
> competition spoke up, Microsoft wouldn't be where
> they are (after all, THEY got to the top purely on
> ETHICAL business practices alone).

This is all reminding me of the day the corporate lawer told a group of us that it's only unethical if it's illegal. Fortunately the public for the most part knows better than to follow a lawer's definition. Still, your comparison and points are pretty inaccurate. What Microsoft did (and still does) was not just unethical, it was also illegal. What Iambic has done, though of questionable ethics, was not illegal as far as I know.

For it to be illegal, Pimlico would actually have to want the domain names and be willing to pay for them, which apparently is not the case. Then we have stupid people here claiming that Iambic should redirect those sites to Pimlico. Sorry, but that is absolutlely wrong. Domain names cost money and it is certainly not not Iambic's responsibilty to pay to advertize for Pimlico. You claim we "need less indifference", but we also need the public to be more informed. Much of what has been posted to this site on this topic has been blown out of proportion and/or is misinformed.

Basically the public has spoke out against Iambic's questionable practices, and they seem to be responding. Like the original poster in this thread said, "let the customer vote (like you did in this case) and hopefully, common sense will prevail." That is what seems to be happening.

RE: Pointless waste of time - clarify!
nategall @ 5/9/2002 8:49:34 AM #
just some replies and additional comments.

> My big problem with iambic is that I've always
> thought of Palm users as being a "community"
> that supports one another--we only fight with
> PocketPC folks! So even if their actions are
> legal, iambic's kind of lost the trust of the community.

Hey, I am one of the first people to knock somebody saying "Sony sucks, palm rulez", in my mind each of these companies is doing the best they can to get us cool products to play with and I respect that. I am all for supporting the PALM community. Heck, I even like the folks that have completely different views than me.... like all those IM folks. BUT, Iambic makes a product, and more products leads to more choices which leads to better products. You as a consumer vote with your wallet for products that you like, that is the way it should be.

Now, Iambic takes a domain name which NOBODY else had registered. As far as i can tell, they are just pointing that "keyword" to their own site. Heck, that was a smart move. Sure it seems a little slimy, but what marketing driven force isn't? Also, keep in mind that this was probably the work of 1-2 people, not the whole company. (i'm just guessing here... but i don't think that they are an evil force:)

> Microsoft had registered netscape.com which
> redirecting visitors to the IE site or registering
> apple.biz and redirected it to

did you hear about MS's "Trust Worthy Computing" initiative to make their pc's secure. type in "TrustWorthyComputing" and see what you get... That is a term MS came up with that somebody else registered. I love that. Would you have a problem with slight deviations? How about dtbk? that is sort of familiar. Where do you draw the line?

I say, don't draw any line. If a company/individual is using a domain name for a reason, they have a right to it. If i had registered CocaCola and had a fan page on how much i love it, I should have a right to it. Now, if people are just registering and sitting on the names.... that i have a problem with.

sorry, this is one of my many many peeves. (don't start me on colleges - f-in waste of time)
Microsoft's site.
> I don't have a problem with people trying AN the
> program suits some people much better than
> DB, but it is dishonest to give someone one thing,
> when they _asked_ for another. - rana

well, if i just go on the internet and type in the first thing in my head when i am looking for a product, i will probably get porn. (long live porn!) If you are looking for a datebook product, and don't know the correct web site, who cares where you go. Doesn't everyone have google as their start page? or PIC as the start page?

nategall says "blah!"

RE: Pointless waste of time
jjsoh @ 5/9/2002 10:29:03 AM #
: For it to be illegal, Pimlico would actually have to
: want the domain names and be willing to pay for them,
: which apparently is not the case.

You're right. But I never stated that it was illegal, just unethical.


: Then we have stupid people here claiming that Iambic
: should redirect those sites to Pimlico. Sorry, but
: that is absolutlely wrong. Domain names cost money
: and it is certainly not Iambic's responsibilty to pay
: to advertize for Pimlico.

I don't refute this point either. Maybe you didn't understand what I was referring to because I didn't go into too much detail (since I didn't want to make it too long). I was merely pointing out that the original poster was using a poor analogy. Anyway, what's done is done, even if iambic did redirect back to pimlico (which would be just as wrong as buying it in the first place with bad intent), that wouldn't really solve the problem.

: You claim we "need less indifference", but we also
: need the public to be more informed. Much of what has
: been posted to this site on this topic has been blown
: out of proportion and/or is misinformed.

No argument there. It's good to raise awareness and to better inform the public, which is the opposite of indifference (which is what I was saying), but wanting "iambic to die" is certainly not the answer. (Though, I can't blame many for feeling so strongly against them.)

And don't ask me what the solution is, I don't know either. Heh. :) Only time will tell.


Jim

RE: Pointless waste of time
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 12:16:11 PM #
>> I don't have a problem with people trying AN the
>> program suits some people much better than
>> DB, but it is dishonest to give someone one thing,
>> when they _asked_ for another. - rana

>well, if i just go on the internet and type in the
>first thing in my head when i am looking for a
>product, i will probably get porn. (long live porn!)
>If you are looking for a datebook product, and don't
>know the correct web site, who cares where you go.
>Doesn't everyone have google as their start page? or
>PIC as the start page?
>nategall says "blah!"

Did you miss the NEWBIE part? imabic sucks.

RE: Pointless waste of time
nategall @ 5/9/2002 12:46:53 PM #
IM. i don't care if newbies get the wrong thing. how else are they going to learn. geesh

deep breath everyone... hold it... hold it... now release... feel the stress flowing from you, ah... again.... in.... hold it .... release.... ahhhh.

now, back to work

ps i am buying all the web sites i can think of and pointing them to porn (long live porn!)
my list of sites to register

palmpilot - (that really fits for porn)
palmmaster - another good one
palmlover - i kill myself :)
palminfocentrAL - i always type that...


nategall says "blah!"

It *IS* against the law
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 11:28:11 AM #
I see a number of people saying it may not be against the law but is slimey, and then a bunch of snakes on this thread saying, hey, it's not illegal, and they should have the right to do it.

IT *IS* ILLEGAL! And immoral on top of that.

The AntiCybersquatting Consumer Protection Act of 1999 makes registering the trademakrs of another company to disrupt their business a crime punishable with fines of $100,000 ! To top it off, it's not just some name speculator registering the name, but a direct competitor using it to make sales of a competing product with a name purposefully modified to pretend to be the other product. It used to be Action Names, now it is Action Names Datebook... coincidence? Don't be silly.

Simply registering the names of a competitor's product names as domains is illegal.... this has been decided in courts time after time. To top it off, they did business themselves under the competitor's domain names. So it's not only a violation of one law, but a blatant violation of that law and perhaps others as well (for fraud and misrepresentation).

The ACPA was passed *SPECIFICALLY* to handle cases like this. Iambic's action were most positively and unambiguously illegal, and still are as they still own the names.

So will people PLEASE stop saying that's immoral even if it's not against the law, because it IS against the law.

And for you types trying to claim it is legal and perfectly OK, please either educate yourself or crawl back under your rock.

GET THIS ON SLASHDOT !

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 9:55:00 PM #
Hi everyone ! I think we should get more publicity on this issue, and the best way to do it is to get it posted on Slashdot.org. If you haven't done so already, do go over there and submit a news item on this ... here's a direct URL: http://slashdot.org/submit.pl

BTW, I just got banned from the ActionNames Yahoo!Group and my user account in Iambic's forums has been deleted. This kind of action by Iambic just shows what kind of lowlife they are.

RE: GET THIS ON SLASHDOT !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:14:38 PM #
Are you Iambic registered User? Demand a refund for all the Iambic Products you purchased. Support is included in the products you purchased as customer services. It is Iambic severe the relationship! You are just voicing their UNETHICAL business practice.
RE: GET THIS ON SLASHDOT !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:16:39 AM #
I hope you realize that what was probably only poor judgement affects the entire company. I'm talking about all their employees and families that rely on Iambic for a living. Would you be the first to undercut YOUR OWN company for a mistake that it has admitted to and addressed??? Even if it meant an uncertain future for your children? Reprimands are one thing - you people want to bring back "Burning at the Stake"!!!

And no - I have no affiliation to Iambic whatsoever, except I am a happy customer (with AN5).

RE: GET THIS ON SLASHDOT !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 2:07:24 PM #
That what happens when you work for a company that has no scruples.
Employees?
Jump ship or mutany. When they get a new prez I'll consider Iambic again. Till then they need to blame their LEADERSHIP for their woes.
RE: GET THIS ON SLASHDOT !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 8:46:18 AM #
Can you show me where Iambic has "admitted" to a mistake??? They have not AT ALL admitted they did anything wrong!! That is part of what makes some of us so pissed at them.
RE: GET THIS ON SLASHDOT !
Kaitou @ 5/10/2002 10:00:20 AM #
To hell with all those unemployed Enron employees, they should have known better then to work at a company that had such unethical business practices. Their own fault for being out of a job now, so who cares, right?

Hold The Bus

Ninja @ 5/8/2002 10:08:42 PM #
This supposed gesture of goodwill is a crock of s**t.
I don't know about others but 99% of the time I do not use www. before the domain when I type it in the browser. If I don't get to where I am attmepting to go the first time then I try with www. The domains with www go to a blank page yes. BUT without www they still point to iambic's site. Try it for yourself
http://www.datebk5.com
http://datebk5.com
How many of the rest of you don't use www initially. This supposed attempt at saving face is pretty poor if you ask me. You mean to tell me they don't realize this is stil happening...pleaaaaase, give me a break.

RE: Hold The Bus
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:38:19 PM #
I totally agree! Not to mention if the user tries to type anything else after the domain name (like index.htm) they will also get to Iambic's site.
RE: Hold The Bus
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:44:55 PM #
datebk4.com is still pointing to Iambic! Iambic Liars!!! The war is still on. Vidal is liar.


RE: Hold The Bus
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:51:26 PM #
Vidal is absolutely a liar! datebk4.com and datebk5.com used to point to the Actions Name Datebook 5 page. They only *changed* them to pointing to their homepage. Man, what a b*st*rd!

www.iambicsucks.com

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2002 10:48:45 PM #
Hey, I checked register.com and found out that www.iambicsucks.com is an available domain name. Any takers?

JBH

A Plug

PR @ 5/9/2002 4:22:27 AM #
kudos to this company:
www.designsbybert.com. they sell icon sets for action names and datebk. they sent an email and a post (of course deleted) to iambic stating in part (http://www.bertaustin.com/snitz33033_dbb/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=167),

"we are the makers of the famous and world wide awarded ActionNames IconSet Deluxe ....

We today red about the link of www.datebk4.com and www.datebk5.com ....

We think this was not the right thing to do especially for a comany like iambic with a bunch of great products ....

this leaves a bad taste in our mouth."

and they later commented on their discussion board,

"indeed our income depends on selling our IconSets .. but we here at designsbybert.com rather live on the street than not raising our hands when things are wrong as in this case from iambic..."


i, for one, bought their icon sets just to show my support. i'm sure a large portion of their sales come from actionnames users, so i think they would have a vested interest in keeping iambic happy.


Real good example of ethics...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:49:08 PM #
Pretty much all the graphics on his web site are lifted from OSX! You don't have to call yourself a graphics designer to copy and paste.
RE: A Plug
PR @ 5/9/2002 6:19:45 PM #
you know, you're right...hmmmm

iambic is liar !!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:54:20 AM #
Ok, it is May 9, 4:45am now.

iambic said www.datebk4.com or www.datebk5.com is point to blank page. Guess what? try by your self:
http://datebk4.com http://DateBk5.com/
(no www)

It is still point to iambic's home page!!

Ed, I suggest you mention these after iambic's official statement in this article. Let everybody see.

RE: iambic is liar !!!
fkclo @ 5/9/2002 6:43:45 AM #
It is now 18:40 (GTM+8).

Still no correction!

I think we claim victory too soon.

RE: iambic is liar !!!
stephen007 @ 5/9/2002 11:08:30 AM #
datebk4.com and datebk5.com *still* redirect to Iambic.

We need to keep on them.

Stephen

RE: iambic is liar !!!
Kaitou @ 5/9/2002 2:47:36 PM #
they do not redirect to iambic, they point to blank pages. if your isp hasn't properly updated yet, try to remember that domain pointer changes take 24 to 48 hours to propagate accross the networks

Complete and utterly arrogant B.S.!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 6:48:55 AM #
Iambic states, "... We became concerned when this trend continued and began to shift the discussion away from who makes the best datebook product to issues surrounding the registrations, sales practices, and other non-product issues.

As a member of the Palm developer community, and order to move the discussion back on track, on May 8, 2002 we redirected these pages to a blank page.

Ethics and strong customer support have always been the cornerstone of iambic's success."

Now, forgive me, but is it just me, or are there others out there that agree with me that this is one of the most arrogant statements of utter B#ll$#!t that has ever come out of the marketing department at any software company? This includes several big companies for which I have worked over the last 15+ years, and it definitely rates right up there along with anything billy over at micro$not has ever said. This thing sounds like something coming out of clinton!

Let's look at their statement slightly closer: "...this trend continued and began to shift the discussion away from who makes the best datebook product...." Notwithstanding the issue of which datebook product has the largest market share (you don't really think it's about iambic thinking that THEY really make the best product and that this is what matters most, do you? The "best product" isn't always the $$$ winner, and unethical software companies have been known to con and scam the public into buying their crap [anyone using a PC?], so $$$ does not always equal "best"), the REAL ISSUE HERE is the public's perception of iambic's ethics!

I know what I think, and I'm guessing that the majority of you do, too.

And as for iambic's "Ethics and strong customer support have always been the cornerstone of iambic's success," the only question and comment I would have for them are, "Really? Um, uh, yeah, SURE - I can tell, although I think that you have utterly shirked your true responsibility to the people that keep you in business - your customers."

I bought iambic products for my Newton years ago iambic was cool then. Now, I will NEVER buy an iambic product! Again, I'm guessing that many of you may feel that way, too.

Let us be sure that we vote not only with our voices, but with our pocektbooks! THIS is something that iambic will recognize. But it won't matter - the damage has already been done - BY IAMBIC! They only have themselves to blame, and it is utterly appropriate that they should pay - when we won't!


RE: Complete and utterly arrogant B.S.!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:25:58 AM #
You are absolutely correct. Iambic has not learned anything about lessons of corporate arrogance of the past few years.

The only solution is to apologize -- and mean it. Then make a donation to Gorilla Haven. Trying to somehow justify their behavior or suggest that we all stop wasting time on this "silly" issue is the height of hubris. They are getting what they deserve.

RE: Complete and utterly arrogant B.S.!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:41:45 AM #
Considering your post, you must have erased EVERYTHING having to do with Microsoft from your computer?

:)

Cheers..

??

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 7:38:35 AM #
Hello, i am from France,
I have just learn about this fancy story.
I am an Action Names DATEBOOK user since the beginning and i bought Action Names DATEBOOK 5 since january.

When i think datebook 5, i'am really thinking about Action Names.

I have never any problem with the tech support, really quick and very gentle, even in French...
I don't really understand all this passionate reaction because for me (and most of my friend in forum user group) when i think about datebook a think about action names datebook :/ I never heard about datebook 5 before this story some friends tell to me.

I'am sorry for my english,i just find this reaction are too unfair consider the good tech support help with their datebook.

I respect the other software, and especially a social warker as pimlico one, but i really think that all the stuff about iambic are exagerated, from europe, no PDA software company support european customer like them, it's really unfair.

RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:38:59 AM #
French guy, don't worry. When Micro$oft hijakes other businesses, Americans won't complain, but here, an European company (Iambic) hijakes an American company, and every stupid ***gots from America complains...
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:49:05 AM #
I think this is a prime example of how Aambic has been able to re-associate the name of "Datebook 5" with Action Names. I can really see how this would happen with someone who speaks English as a second language, when seeing Datebk5 on the internet one may assume it is just short for Action Names Datebook 5. Remember the chronology of how Iambic has changed the names of their products that was posted? Started as Action Names, then Action Names Datebook, now Datebook 5, so on and so forth.
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:00:00 AM #
Weel, this is certainly SWELL dialogue. It speaks rather directly to the un-balanced perspective of the folks participating in this forum (and, I might add, the folks so obviously offended by Iambic).

Grow up or shut up - you're more offensive than your portrayal of Iambic.

RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:04:04 AM #
but datebook is a generic term. I understand what Iambic did was wrong, but the maker of datebk should have registered the domains. If you do not want someone using your name, then register it.
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:04:21 AM #
I am not making policy or this type of stuff.

I am not taking position with anyone. I respect everyone.

I'am just saying that iambic (an american company) is the only company who makes the effort with european suppport since two years, when every software producer (all from US) ignore us.

We (european) don't invent the Palm (unfortunately we don't have people like Jeff Hawkins here), we don't have any cool american company like iambic or dataviz here too (we don"t have any people like vidal here too), and we don't have Microsoft too.

At least, something good with a company like iambic, is that each time i asked them a question, i have an aswer in French, and it's so great for poor european like us ! I'm quite old (50 years old) but i like technology, and i always respect those who understand that everyone are not early adoptors and those who take time to answer when you have questions.

I'm thinking about the poor french men of the tech support who spend with me more than two hours and 20 mails last year, sometime just too explain me something about the Palm himself, even not their software ! Since this support, i always had a good feeling with them.
Obviously,this type of thing is bad (good luck for his association) but when i say it's unfair, i am thinking about the time people spend in the tech support, and the time their reputation fall. That is clearly my explanation by using the word "unfair"

RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:10:11 AM #
>> but datebook is a generic term.

yes it is, but Datebk5 and Datebk4 are quite specific.


RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:18:07 AM #
yes, but i was replying to the other guy who said Action names datebook is wrong because of the datebook title. If this is the case, then Palm-Size PCs shouldn't have seen the light of day.
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:46:22 AM #
"yes, but i was replying to the other guy who said Action names datebook is wrong because of the datebook title. If this is the case, then Palm-Size PCs shouldn't have seen the light of day."

Ironic that you should mention that since they were originally to be called PalmPCs. When Palm/3Com threatened suit, they were changed to Palm-sized PCs (the descriptive palm there could be interpreted to be a generic reference to the hand).

RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:01:02 AM #
Ah French Guy, I though America @ France are allies!
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:08:19 PM #
French Guy, You don't understand the issue being raised in this protest of unethical business practice of Iambic. It is not about software support, how good is the software, etc. It is about HIJACKING the datebk4.com and datebk5.com.
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:22:12 PM #
Well, I must say your english is a lot better than many Americans out there :)
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:32:33 PM #
Mr. Francais, do not be an ostrich. Stick your head out of the sand and wear a stronger pair of glasses. You would see that even if you thought their service to France was great, they do a greater disservice to all within and without France. Unethical business practices is NOT acceptable ANYWHERE.
RE: ??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:52:45 PM #
Chill, folks. Just simply recognize that this guy is FRENCH! (read: amoral arrogant pig) This alone will properly color his comments and place them in appropriate perspective. He sounds like a typical whiny leftist whacko liberal masking as a nazi conservative trying to believe he's somewhere in between. (And, yes, unfortunately, America is full of these types of idiots, many of them teaching in our universities and brainwashing the truth-seeking youth who finally find it decades later after life catches up with them and the BS washes off.)

The interesting question is who this guy votes for: Chirac or Le Pen?

Take it easy Francis!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:45:20 AM #
You people need to relax. It's as if everyone has lost their mind! Don't you realize this was just business. It goes on everyday, and you know what? Sometimes it ain't pretty. Go ahead an make a stink if you want, but business drives technology. And profits drive innovation. It is the reason all you geeks have your precious palm units and fancy software. You ought to be thanking Iambic for trying to gain a competitive edge that will drive an ActionNames6 -or -10, or another completely revolutionary product that will save you time and make you more productive. Geez! They apologized already! Give it a rest!!!!

And really - people are calling for Iambic to make a donation to gorillas?!? When was the last time YOU gave a dollar to a gorilla? (I wasn't talking about your wife, either.)

RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:25:23 AM #
It all boils down to ethics. You can check your ethics at the door to make a buck, but evidently - considering the backlash - at lot of people don't agree with the approach Iambic has taken.

If you find Iambic's approach to business to be appropriate in this case, I suppose I'd question your ethics as well. Misleading consumers is how you build business? Come on... what business are you in?

RE: Take it easy Francis!
escobar @ 5/9/2002 10:27:03 AM #
lol!

RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:09:56 AM #
When did Iambic apologize? They in fact did nothing of the sort.

Iambic shows no remorse for trying to mislead unsuspecting customers.

LOL indeed.

RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:23:43 AM #
the way you are all carrying on, you would think they had slapped your mother! (or worse)

if only this energy was put toward something CONSTRUCTIVE.... sad, really....

RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:28:56 AM #
Why are you reading and replying then? LOL
RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:49:14 AM #
The last time I gave a dollar for a gorilla was when Datebk3 was updated to Datebk4, and I actually sent the gorillas 100 of them. This time I'll send them 250. I would be nice if everyone who thinks Iambic's practices are slimey would send a donation to Gorilla Haven. How about it?
RE: Take it easy Francis!
zigzago @ 5/9/2002 11:55:27 AM #
When there's an hysterical mob ready to lynch someone for littering it's hard not to watch.

RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:35:51 PM #
Oh yeah? It's just business? So, I guess this is how YOU conduct business. Can you please tell me what you do and where you work? At least let us have the chance to make sure we DO NOT do any business with you and your type.
RE: Take it easy Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:21:32 PM #
Who is Francis?

Much ado about nothing much...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:01:47 AM #
Does anybody else think that this much anger over a domain name is just a tad ridiculous?

How about getting upset over something REALLY important - like the situation in the Middle East? We all need some perspective here, folks.


RE: Much ado about nothing much...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:18:15 AM #
yeah i can't believe how a things like this take this proportion. If iambic have to suffer from this, it will be a really good thing for the palm os community.

As every palm business company are dying, we will have to buy microsoft product, like everyone.

Really clever.

RE: Much ado about nothing much...
sandbuck @ 5/9/2002 10:31:31 AM #
Chat about the Middle East in a Middle East chat room.

RE: Much ado about nothing much...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 5:13:28 PM #
Why are we getting angry about this when we could be getting angry about the Middle East?

1. Because it's dishonest and deceptive.
2. That's a false dilemma. We don't have to choose we can be angry about both.
3. There's nothing we can DO about the Middle East. We CAN make a difference in this matter.

RE: Much ado about nothing much...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:14:38 PM #
Get Out from here. Iambic. I guess this part of your job description trying to get rid about the real issue of your unethical practice i.e HIJACKING.
RE: Much ado about nothing much...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:38:50 PM #
How many free ActionNames did Iambic promise you in return for this slime?
RE: Much ado about nothing much...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 7:14:13 AM #
I see a bunch of fools in this story who registered a domain name. I see another bunch of fools who were quick to jump and cry for a boycott on the first bunch. Some other bunch of fools are spending their time reading all this. I can recognize only one smart person in all of this story who intentionally left the oh-so-natural domains names available for everyone and now is sitting and looking at some hundred of his fans doing his PR - absolutely free.

He likes his gorillas - fine. I love diving. If I spend all the money I earn (after I pay up my mortgage, my car, college for children etc.etc.) on diving - does it mean I can register some underwater exploration society where I would be able to do what I like, and claim from now on that I'm a charity? I don't think so.

I've tried both datebk and actNames and the truth is actNames beats datebk on everything, in half the size. (I am not an iambic employee, as many of you would like to think, and my IP starts with 147, which is not the case with iambic's).

I only want to add that I would really love to see this much of a public involvement, cries for boycott, online petitions, write-your-congressman and slashdot-it and you-know-who must die when Hezbullah guerillas HIJACKED and later KILLED three Israeli soldiers. And don't say there's nothing you can do about it.

RE: Much ado about nothing much...
fleegle @ 5/10/2002 9:54:26 AM #
"Some other bunch of fools are spending their time reading all this."

So... welcome to the bandwagon...FOOL! :-P

Charity, Hmmm...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:17:04 AM #
Dewar is a millionaire. I believe that he is the head of the Gorilla Haven chairity. I don't mean to be mean-spirited, but how do we know where the profits from the DateBk software registrations go?
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
escobar @ 5/9/2002 10:27:51 AM #
Go to http://www.gorilla-haven.org/ and see for yourself where the money goes!

And what does the fact that he's a millionaire have anything to do with it?

RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:57:50 PM #
He probably is a millionaire, given that he's a genius -- just read his bio (hint: you can't get his bio at http://datebk5.com). But what has that to do with anything? The Gorilla Haven discloses its records. Furthermore, if he wanted to retire now and rest on his laurels he certainly could. But he hasn't, and provides personal product support nearly every day. I for one, think it's great when I hear that a wonderful person who has achieved success not through marketing saavy, but through real innovation and tireless work. That his work is selfless too should be icing on the cake.

But the thing is, none of this should matter. Even if he was collecting every dime of money for this, he would not deserve to be the victim of this sort of unethical practice. Iambic could have competed on the merits of their product and chose a different course. I, for one, will make my own choice and never purchase anything from them.

RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:59:43 PM #
I met CESD in person during an Altanta Palm User Group meeting. I have to say this guy is the most respectable person I have ever met. Inteligent, genuine and has a great sense of humor, really a man with a mission in life. I bet most people who have met him or read his posts or emails would have the same to say about him.
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 6:02:13 PM #
Is DEWAR heir to the Dewar's whiskey fortune and he just writes software for fun?
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
getalife @ 5/9/2002 7:43:28 PM #
why don't you ask him how many gorillas are actually in his gorilla haven he is supposedly putting his profit to?

RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:18:05 PM #
Back to real issue UNETHICAL practice of Iambic.

Re: Millionaire, a lot of chinese people in Hongkong are become Millionaires by just selling noodles. They produce $1 packed of noodles and sell it at 2 dollars. Selling it to 1 million customers.

RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 8:46:43 PM #
People like you should be ashamed. You have clearly not done your homework and took the easy way out by flaming someone who is doing some work for the good of this earth. Pressing your foot on the pedal without engaging your brains shows where your mentality lies - low.
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 9:15:15 PM #
Whom, you are referring to - of being flaming. If you referring to above posting mentioning noodles. I am not. You should be more specific. I am pointing about UNETHICAL practice of Iambic. Not CESD being a Millionaire. Pea brain! You flaming personalities, not the issue being discussed.
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:07:39 PM #
There are NO gorillas in Gorilla Haven and it says so in their site. The whole project is not even done yet (read their timeline). So the registered owners of Datebk5 (and below) actually helped in building the Gorilla Haven site.
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 12:51:42 AM #
If he's a millionaire, why wouldn't he have registered datebk5.com (etc.) for himself, a long time ago?
RE: Charity, Hmmm...
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 4:06:25 AM #
Aw come on you guys - Steuart made his money BEFORE DateBk3/4/5.

The proceeds from his Palm apps go to Gorilla Haven - a project that has been in planning for a long time, and will be opening this year.

Those of us who are registered users have helped make this happen, and I think that that is VERY cool.

RE: Charity, Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:36:07 AM #
I don't think that the gorilla thing is a charity as much as it is a hobby. One man's desire to have his own zoo.

File a complaint - Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:23:17 AM #
The federal trade commission has recently taken an interest in misleading internet activities involving domain names. The problem they usually have is that there is not a solid company to go after. Here, there is.

Go to www.ftc.gov and file a complaint against Iambic. The complaint form is at:

https://rn.ftc.gov/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

Some of the information you will need to file your complaint is Iambic's address:

Iambic, Inc.
12 South First Street Ste 300
San Jose, CA 95113

If the FTC is overwhelmed with complaints they will have no choice but to look into this and go after Iambic. They are in the process of taking out a guy by the name of John Zucharini who took a bunch of "typo" domain names (ala www.amazn.com) for the purpose of misleading customers. This is the same deal. So file a complaint, do something about Iambic, and let the FTC take it from there.

RE: File a complaint - Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 2:55:12 PM #
I just sent this in to the FTC:

I just wanted to report that Iambic, makers of ActionNames Datebook which is a Palm OS software, registered internet domain names through register.com of datebk4.com and datebk5.com and had them redirect to the ActionNames page on Iambics website.

The names of Datebk3, Datebk4 and DateBk5, although not trademarked, are names of another, widely more popular datebook software for the Palm OS. Datebk3, Datebk4 and Datebk5 are made by Pimlico software which uses the sale of their product to pay for a program called gorilla-haven. Information can be found a www.gorilla-haven.com.

I find it extremely misleading for Iambic to use the names of competitors products in internet domain names to lure them into their website.

RE: File a complaint - Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.g
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:24:24 PM #
Please don't waste my tax money on stupid things like this.
RE: File a complaint - Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov
Pentagonal @ 5/9/2002 9:04:41 PM #
Please use my tax money for this. It's a cause worth fighting.

RE: File a complaint - Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov
Kaitou @ 5/10/2002 9:32:28 AM #
It's no cause worth fighting nor is it illegal, I have no wishes for my tax dollars to be wasted on this nonsense.

RE: File a complaint - Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 10:20:55 PM #
Kaitou wrote:

>It's no cause worth fighting nor is it illegal,

Hi Kaitou -- you are horribly ignorant of the law concerning domain names. It is extremely illegal. Please educate yourself. Do a search on Google for "Anticybersquatting" and read any (or, preferably, all) of the links on the first page of results.

Latest Comment From CESD

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:48:54 AM #
Here's his latest comment from the DateBk list:

Ok, as you can imagine, I have been following all the uproar with quite some interest. I realize that there are many people expecting me to flood this forum with frequent and expansive expressions of invective, dismay etc., which I have not done.

First, I don't think it was necessary - there is not much that I could have added to the overwhelming expression of support for my efforts, and certainly not to the uhhhh... other opinions expressed :)

Perhaps it is because of my formal British upbringing and the notion that people in business should act like gentlemen that leaves me with an aversion to getting involved with this much further.

Sometimes people think they are clever. Sometimes they learn that they are not so clever. I suspect Iambic is learning the latter today.

I also suspect that this may not go away quite as fast as they would hope. I didn't get the impression that this was just an outcry by an anonymous and "very insignificant percentage of the population"

Thanks again to all of you for your support - THAT has been the enjoyable part of this all for me :)

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.

RE: Latest Comment From CESD
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 12:19:51 PM #
What a class act. Datebk5 rocks!
RE: Latest Comment From CESD
PDA Guy @ 5/9/2002 12:58:53 PM #
"anonymous and "very insignificant percentage of the population""

This is a good point, Iambic really doesn't consider this much of a problem, since they see posted here a lot of I.M. Anonymous posts.

Vote with your e-mail! Send pr@iambic.com and vidal@iambic.com a message telling them what you think, as well as voicing your opinion on any future business they may have just lost...

RE: Latest Comment From CESD
bookrats @ 5/9/2002 1:06:48 PM #
He's definitely a Rennaisance man rare to find technical expertise, imagination, commitment to quality, business saavy and a sense of humor in one person.

----

Jeff Meyer

RE: Latest Comment From CESD
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 1:55:16 PM #
Yes, there was a reply from Iambic posted to the DateBk user group that basically said they feel that the outcry is just a small number of people posting in a lot of places, that's what CESD was referring to. They also continue to give their "line" that the domains were registered based on a "common" abbreviation of datebook.

ONLINE PETITION

PR @ 5/9/2002 2:00:38 PM #
somebody has started an online petition here: http://www.petitiononline.com/iambic/petition.html

go sign it!!!

Sign the petition!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 2:00:48 PM #
Iambic says that the outraged comments are from just a small number of anonymous people. Show them they are wrong!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/iambic/petition.html


RE: ONLINE PETITION
sundance_7 @ 5/9/2002 2:13:34 PM #
Brilliant idea, exceptionally good form.

Not only that,

But I've signed it as well.

Cheers,
sundance

RE: ONLINE PETITION
jjsoh @ 5/9/2002 3:34:05 PM #
I signed it as well. At the very least, it serves to inform the public.

However, my only gripe about these online petitions is the fact that all it takes is 1 troll to ruin the sincerity of it all.

Take for example signee No. 89. Carl Yankowski? Heh. I really hope it's just coincidence that there's another Carl Yankowski out there signing said petition. :)

I'll admit, it's funny. But it doesn't exactly help the cause either.


Jim

RE: ONLINE PETITION
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:30:39 PM #
Great constructive idea!
I signed too!
RE: ONLINE PETITION
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 6:10:07 PM #
Oooo... Please sign petition. OooAAAAAA!! Need new home. Zoo no fun no more. EEEEEEE-ooooooo. Bananas stale. Girl gorilla no put out. AA-a-a-a-a..oooooo

-Koko

RE: ONLINE PETITION
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:41:07 AM #
Cool I just sign the petition. I also made lots of fake ones to help out so they really think we are alot of ppl outraging. Everyone do the same. I think I made 25 in 5 mins. Sweet.

Well on to the real stuff

So if iambic apologize, everything is okay? Man, you guys are gonna f**k some people over just for a little thing like this. Geez. HIJACKING?? PALEEZE!!! they didn't take it from them. It was free for anyone to buy and register. No hijacking here. You americans can use all ur tax money on f**king this company over. I'm happy with using Action Names and happy that my tax dollars won't be touching this nonsense.

RE: ONLINE PETITION
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 4:00:18 AM #
Please don't sign the petition more than once -- that's really unnecessary, there will be enough bona fide names regardless!

And no, it's not "HiJacking". The term is called cybersquatting. And yes, it *is* illegal.

RE: ONLINE PETITION
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:01:02 AM #
Just ignore the jerks. The petition software automatically removes duplicate signatures. See their FAQ at:

http://www.petitiononline.com/petition_FAQ.html

RE: ONLINE PETITION
Kaitou @ 5/10/2002 9:55:44 AM #
It's not cybersquatting either


cyber-squatting

The practice of registering famous brand names as Internet domain names, e.g. harrods.com, ibm.firm or sears.shop, in the hope of later selling them to the appropriate owner at a profit.

(1998-01-22) (Courtesy of Dictionary.com)


note the "in the hope of later selling them to the appropriate owner at a profit" part. THAT is the nature of cybersquatting. Unethical advertisement practice? Yes. Hijacking? No. Cybersquatting? No. Foolish? Yes. Justifying this insane lynch mob? No.

RE: ONLINE PETITION
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 10:05:22 AM #
i don't think so!.!.!

KoKo the Wonder Chimp wuz here hehehehe

O-O-O-O--E-E-E-E-E-E-A-A-A-A-a-a-a-a-aaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

RE: ONLINE PETITION
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 1:23:39 PM #

It's not cybersquatting either


Sorry Kaitou, but you need to do a little better research than relying on dictionary.com - purchasing domains for resale at a profit is only part of the story... -)


Check out both the ICANN domain name dispute resolution process and the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act (ACPA):


Both contain wording to the effect:


That by using the domain name, the registrant has intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to a web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the trademark holder's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of the site.


That's obviously the intent here, so I think that using the term CyberSquatting is entirely justified.



UPDATE!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 2:38:17 PM #
datebk4.com and datebk5.com now go to blank pages as well. I personally think this is not enough, I wouldn't expect them to turn them over to Pimlico, but I don't see why they are leaving them in the DNS at all. I think they are hoping that the customer will try other addresses on the domain and find their way to Iambic. There's no reason to put ANYTHING UP at those addresses if they weren't hoping they'd do something.
RE: UPDATE!!
Beavis @ 5/9/2002 2:56:12 PM #
Why shouldn't they turn them over to Pimlico? It would be the right thing to do.

Sure, they are not in the business of buying domain names for their competition, but transferring ownership is a good start in healing the wounds that they have caused, and would be a gesture of goodwill.

RE: UPDATE!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:20:06 PM #
I just don't think there's a chance in H*ll of Iambic ever doing that. The closest we could come would be for them to turn the domains off completely.
RE: UPDATE!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:26:10 PM #
Domain registration is on a yearly basis. They certainly aren't going to buy advertising to a competitor and Pimlico doesn't want to pay for the addresses. Give it up already. It's over.
For everything else, there's MasterCard
Palm_Otaku @ 5/10/2002 3:51:55 AM #
Annual registration fees for two domains (including redirects): $25.

One registered copy of ActionNames : $25.

Cost to transfer domains: $0

Maintaining the goodwill and respect of the Palm Community: priceless.

Glass houses?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 2:48:43 PM #
Let he without sin cast the first stone....
RE: Glass houses?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 2:58:51 PM #
*middle finger*

Hows that? It is less painful than drilling you in the head with the rock.

-)

RE: Glass houses?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:06:47 PM #
classy.

good luck with that.

RE: Glass houses?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 3:13:24 PM #
and I guess your Jesus Christ.
RE: Glass houses?
nategall @ 5/9/2002 3:50:33 PM #
IM, stop fighting with yourself, and please seek professional help.

ps. you cannot possibly be jesus, because I am.
na-na-na-na-na-na!

nategall says "blah!"

Messages erased from iambic forums

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 4:24:00 PM #
If you go to the ActionName forum on Yahoo groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actionnames/) you will see many posts have been removed. iambic claims the posts were removed because they are off-topic, but the messages that are not critical of iambic have been left. Also, iambic started moderating it's own forum yesterday and has deleted ALL posts critical of iambic (http://www.iambic.com/forum/). Hmmmmm.
RE: Messages erased from iambic forums
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 6:22:01 PM #
The posts have been removed because "Iambic pooped in it's mess kit", translation "they are taking a lot of s**t" for this screw-up!

Why not reserve Datebk1.com, or anyother DatebkX.com?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 6:09:01 PM #
Too clever for your own good. Yes protect your business. You chose to reserve only the current and the new version of your competitor's product, not other names that have datebook or a variant for a reason, and not the reason you admit to.

Shame on you. Caught being too clever for your own good, and then lying about it.

Iambic employees posting...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 7:45:14 PM #
Has anybody noticed that iambic employees are now posting in this forum (thread)?
is this their new PR strategy? ..pathetic.!
RE: Iambic employees posting...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 11:25:22 PM #
Sadly, they are posting here...

They don't have the ba11s to apologize.

They don't have the ba11s to tell the truth.

The irony is, by trying to shout people down, and try to belittle and weakly intimidate those who have spoken out - they rally the cause further against themselves.

Poetically self-defeating arrogance and foolishness on their part.

RE: Iambic employees posting...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 3:14:34 AM #
sounds like YOU are the one who should reach down and check your "ba_11_s" ---- just to make sure they're there!

you haven't gotten laid in a while, have you?

RE: Iambic employees posting...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 7:06:49 AM #
A case in point! My, my - a bit defensive, are we?

Dumped Iambic Years Ago

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2002 10:51:01 PM #
Their unethical actions surrounding Tinysheet turned me away from this company years ago.

They identified a bug in their software which causes a miscalculation. They chose not to fix the bug but instead put the fix in a newer unavailable version. In order to get the fix, I was required wait to PURCHASE the newer version.

I have NO problem purchasing new releases but if CURRENT software has a known bug and they know how to fix it, they should provide the fix and not require a person to wait and purchase an upgrade later on.

At that point, I purchased Quicksheet (and later Quickoffice). Their product was higher priced but they promised lifetime upgrades. They've later changed that policy but THEY HAVE KEPT THEIR PROMISE TO THOSE TO WHOM THEY MADE IT!

That is what I call ethical company behavior.

What you call this?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 12:38:07 AM #
In Taiwan, we call this kind of action as "WWW ****roach's action".

How do you call in US?

RE: What you call this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:42:14 AM #
We call it "Unethical Iambic Losers"!!!

I'll try Action Names Datebook

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 12:58:00 AM #
Due to all this noise and comment, I think I'll actually try Action Names Datebook. I certainly know that DateBk5 isn't for me.
RE: I'll try Action Names Datebook
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:40:05 AM #
GET OUT from this forum. You loser Iambic Staff. You are out of line.
RE: I'll try Action Names Datebook
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:44:39 AM #
It is because you are paid by Iambic to do some posting!!!
RE: I'll try Action Names Datebook
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:48:45 AM #
Trolls! Not the first post but the 2nd and 3rd ones.
RE: I'll try Action Names Datebook
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 2:19:28 AM #
Trolls? You are the who posted the first one. Pretending to be using AN and DateBk for the first time. No reads Palminfocenter.com who have not tried the two applications before.
RE: I'll try Action Names Datebook
Kaitou @ 5/10/2002 9:36:04 AM #
I've been reading PIC for years and have never felt the need to try either one of these products. I certanly agree with the first person, I've been giving both products a heavier look-over lately, and actualy think AN may be better for me.

And don't worry, I don't work at Iambic. I actualy work at a fairly large banking firm.

RE: I'll try Action Names Datebook
Pentagonal @ 5/10/2002 12:18:14 PM #
Well have fun doing business with an untrustworthy organization. I hear their tech support is tops, too.

Lighten up, Francis!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 12:58:30 PM #
Jeez! Don't you guys have anything better to do? I actually like AN better than DB4. I don't hate gorillas or anything though, and I am not an employee of Iambic. What do you want Iambic to do? Burn down the shop, execute the owners and make the rest of the staff shovel gorilla dung in Georgia forever? What they did was not THAT bad--from reading the posts you would think that they've been funneling funds to that freak in Afganistan. Lighten up, Francis. (Sgt Hulka, Stripes, 1981)

pathetic no life losers

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:14:42 AM #
Honestly - the moral outrage here is contemptible. Ethics be damned - business is business...no rules.

Plimco - put out a datebook that looks half as good as action names...doesnt fill my screen with annoying icons...and I'll buy it. Good products are rewarded with good incomes. And just think - your 10% of income contribution to gorillas or wtf other various sad, teary charity you nauseatingly promote as demonstrating your good nature (whereas the tax benefits of charitable donation dont seem to have raised a mention) - will be that much more again.

Grow up the lot of you. We are a capitalistic society - anyone who owns a palm let alone can afford to group masturbate like this whole forum on the internet really isnt in that convinving a moral position to discuss business ethics.

Good luck Iambic - hope you cream the miserable pathetic competition.

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:39:26 AM #
Another Iambic Personnel!
IP are logged, don't forget that !!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 4:25:19 AM #
During two days, everybody was against what Iambic made and suddenly, some very strange messages appear...

Can the moderator publish the IP addresses used to post all those messages in favor of Iambic, to see where they come from ?

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:09:41 AM #
I'll save you the bother you small minded conspiracy freak.

I am in Australia.
I have no affiliation with Iambic - and I don't care emotionally for either company. I just respect good hard business play. The world is full of business losers and has a few winners. Thats life.

As to publishing my IP....Do it PIC and I'll redefine the word lawsuit for you.

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:15:02 AM #
...not to mention the fact that I have said nothing that is fraudulent, racist or defammatory in any of my posts...so I don't care if the moderator knows who I am exactly and my IP address...but I would have a major problem if he decided to release it for general consumption for your sanctimonious perusal...
RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:19:56 AM #
Why are you afraid of your IP address being published ??? Chances are, you're probably surfing from your company's network that has a static IP address, and that we can probably trace you to Iambic :) ...

Also, publishing your IP address is a non-issue. There are no legal requirements that your IP address must be hidden.


Ed, I would suggest you check out the IP addresses of suspicious posters to see if they are coming from Iambic :)

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:21:00 AM #
period
RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 6:35:16 AM #
Lol, he is right, some geeks have to grow up. Business is business, and Action Names is so far better than Datebook 5, people have to be blind not to see this. You can check any IP you want, i'm from Paris. If you don't like the true, or respect antithesis, you will never grow up.

I have the feeling that it is not the lawsuit of a practice (we see that million and million times since internet) but some datebook fans who needs to give cool ads to their product.

Hey grow up men !

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 8:27:33 AM #
Loser boy threatens to sue if his IP address is revealed?! ROFLMAO! Business is business, loser! (BTW, IP addresses are not legally privileged info.) If you want to see a control freak dork who needs to get a life, go look in a mirror dude...
RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 8:53:56 AM #
Wow, criticizing someone because the funds from their software goes to charity (what difference does it make if you get a tax deduction or not!) Some people really are scum and are scrapping the bottom of the barrel here to find ways to defend Iambic. I don't really care if their are Iambic employees or not. Someone that shows that little character is not worth listening to. I personally believe that a company should conduct themselves with ethics and morals and NOT do anything they think they can get away with and certainly not anything that is illegal. I don't care SQUAT what the better product is, I will not support a company that behaves the way Iambic has.
RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:05:27 AM #
If you go looking for any company's products (including Iambic's), try them and like them better than the competition, so be it. I have no quarrel with you on that point. But, if you go looking for a product and are redirected to a competitor's product, then you have been cheated. Under U.S. law, whether a trademark has federal government registration is not relevant to its status as a trademark. Trademark registration was created to assist in deciding who estabished the trademark as a form of prior usage. Pimlico clearly has prior usage rights to DateBk3, DateBk4, and DateBk5. And, as the largest competitor in the DateBook replacement market, Iambic knew that (doesn't Ford know who General Motors is???).

Iambic's actions are unethical and illegal. Maybe they still think they can get away with it without issuing an apology..... NOT!

Alan Cohen

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:20:29 AM #
> Also, publishing your IP address is a non-issue.
> There are no legal requirements that your IP address
> must be hidden.

Buying a domain name with the product name of a competitor is a non-issue (unless the competitor wants that name). There are no legal requirements as to what domain names you can buy.

The original poster was right, "the moral outrage here is contemptible." You want to start a witch hunt? If this site published the IP addresses previously anonymous posts, I can tell you what the next group of outraged people would be boycotting and what the next top story on PDABuzz will be.

Give it up people. You did your job, you complained, you got news items posted, and Iambic relented. What else do you want them to do, go out of business, get up on a stage and do tricks? Move on to the next more worthy cause.

RE: pathetic no life losers
Kaitou @ 5/10/2002 9:40:06 AM #
I couldn't care less what happens with the money when I give it to a company for the software, they can donate it to a gorilla fund, they can *give* it to the gorillas, or they can roll around naked in it.

I pick and support a few charities, and have no need to justify purchasing a product by who it claims to support.

Plus try to remember, most companies have problems with their names being attached to individual views, which is why I could understand the person earlier worrying about his IP. Those of you posting from home, or school, or a library couldn't care less, but the ones here on company time, have a cause for concern.

to the victor go the spoils
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:51:00 AM #
the first poster nailed it. who do you want to be in life? you've got your winners and your WHINERS. you know what you all sound like, don't you?


RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 10:32:18 PM #
>Buying a domain name with the product name of
>a competitor is a non-issue (unless the competitor
>wants that name). There are no legal requirements
>as to what domain names you can buy.

Again we have someone who:
1) advocates immoral behavior
2) stupidly claims that something that is completely against the law isn't (hint: ACPA law of 1999)
3) dares to call *other people* losers

Check the mrror, bub. You'll find an ignorant amoral slimebag who is making incorrect statements about what is legal and what isn't.

RE: pathetic no life losers
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2002 2:56:12 AM #
amoral - absolutely. I have no interest in your self-serving apple-pie definition of goodies and baddies.

I am a machiavellian - I endorse Conrads' writings on the pretentions of societal niceties and I deplore your tedious attempt to ascribe concrete legal/ethical absolutes of one case in a flexible legal environment that internet case law is pro tempe.

Not a slime bag - just aware and practical and amoral and uninterested in the well-being of plimco, its sycophants and purile ethical appologists who seem to be in abundance in northern america this side of September 11....

Funny logo :)

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:27:27 AM #
RE: Funny logo :)
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 10:11:58 AM #
I wish I had that much free time to spend on non-essentials like making logos ........... Oops I'm on this site I do have free time ...... Gotta run here comes the boss ..... Yes dear, I'll go cut the grass.

Sanctimonious Drivel

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:19:45 AM #
Wow. Can you smell the gullibility? Can you see the ignorance? Are your rose-colored glasses getting smudged?

You can talk ethics all you want, but the fact IS that business is business. Which means business is a very Machiavellian pursuit, and MOST business--MOST--engage in "ethically questionable" behavior if it means subverting the competition. This is one thing Microsoft knows all too well.

I'm not defending iambic tactics I'm just saying "Calm down" to all the people who are apparently going into cardiac arrest over it. I'm sure at some point Pimlico might be willing to do something legal but not-necessarily-nice, as well, in spite of their tree-hugging pro-gorilla facia. I'm sure they make Diane Fosse proud, but I'll bet they make Bill Gates proud, as well.

You folks need to come out of your shell, experience the real world for a while, and then take a deep breath and simply make a decision--iambic or no iambic? But let all this conspiracy-theory paranoid, outrageous bullsh** go, please.

And for the record, NO, I don't work for iambic, NO, I don't work for Pimlico, NO, I don't work for Microsoft. Hell, I still use the built-in Datebook. So get over that BS, too.

Honestly, IT'S A PDA, PEOPLE! Focus your energies on something useful...

RE: Sanctimonious Drivel
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:54:36 AM #
I'd like to see some evidence that "most" companies participate in questionable behavior to subvert their competition. Quite the opposite, my experience has been that most companies do their best to pull customers by putting out the best products and/or providing the best support they can. When I try to think of underhanded tactics, most of the examples that come to minda are Microsoft or other really large companies that know they can get away with it.

As for Pimlico being guilty of the same behavior, give me a break. It's obvious from just the fact that he had not registered these domains himself that CESD just goes on his merry way letting word of mouth do his advertising for him and doesn't worry about trying to keep one jump ahead of the competition. This is a guy that gives free upgrades and answers ALL his support questions himself. Give me a break and find a better person to pick on.

RE: Sanctimonious Drivel
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 10:07:45 AM #
Man, this is amazing you would think with some of the ranting and raving our world depended on this issue. It's as if Datebk5 were the Savior or something ....... get a life IT'S A SOFTWARE PROGRAM! PERIOD!
RE: Sanctimonious Drivel
jjsoh @ 5/10/2002 11:10:20 AM #
"Man, this is amazing you would think with some of the ranting and raving our world depended on this issue. It's as if Datebk5 were the Savior or something ....... get a life IT'S A SOFTWARE PROGRAM! PERIOD!"

And here you are reading and posting (as an IMA, no doubt) about the same issue. Wow. I guess your life is so much better than everyone else's. You must be the exception.

What's wrong with allowing people to express their own opinions, especially when they feel passionate about it? And what better place to post messages than on a message board? I'll admit that some posts are just blindingly (is that a word?) extreme, but hey.. to each his own.

I seriously doubt anyone will take seriously one who tells others to "get a life" when they're doing the exact same thing: expressing their opinions.


Jim

RE: Sanctimonious Drivel
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:23:26 PM #
The point Jim is there are more important things in life that the energy I have seen wasted on this issue. In fact up until this post I never really posted a comment on this board. I guess the reason I never did is because I put things like this in perspective.
RE: Sanctimonious Drivel
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 11:43:45 PM #
Hey Jim, what does (IMA) have to do with this, I mean how do we know your real name is Jim? As far as opinions that is what they are, just opinions, and I to have a life!
RE: Sanctimonious Drivel
jjsoh @ 5/12/2002 1:49:50 PM #
: Hey Jim, what does (IMA) have to do with this, I
: mean how do we know your real name is Jim? As far as
: opinions that is what they are, just opinions, and I
: to have a life!"

You're right. It's not Jim, it's James. But Jim has a more amiable ring towards it, don'tcha think? :)

Anyway, I never said you didn't have a life. But it's nice to know that you do.


Jim

Ethics vs. Legality

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 9:28:28 AM #
Much of the iambic's support seems to center around the argument that their action was (probably not) illegal, and that capitalism demands every effort to make the sale. I respectfully submit that anyone whose actions are only limited by legislation needs to reevaluate their personal philosophy, and I hope never to make your acquaintance. There is a chasm of difference between, on one hand, an act that's so damaging to society that all must be banned from it and on the other, our personal vision of what would make a better society and our desire to achieve it.

Unfortunately, people on both sides of this divide seem to forget that it's there. Our legislators (liberals and conservatives both) forget that they have no authority to subjectively determine what form of society would be best, while libertines abuse us all by doing whatever they can simply because they can.

I also note many silly posts of the form "Datebk sucks, AN rulez!". It's long been accepted by all but the most irrational that both applications are among the best created for the Palm platform, each addressing their need in a different way. AN has a reputation for its ease of use, while Datebk is praised as the Swiss Army knife of calendar applications. To ignore the vast functionality of Datebk while concentrating on its memory usage and AN's cosmetics is doing oneself a disservice: at the very least, learn what Datebk can do, and how AN could be made better by matching those features. (And conversely, how Datebk could be prettier and easier)

RE: Ethics vs. Legality
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:34:43 PM #
I take a machiavellian/Conrad view of the world. Winners and losers. The whys, wherefores and hows are irrelevant.

Nope

PIC mobile user @ 5/10/2002 12:09:25 PM #
I WAS thinking about buying Action Names... Iambic will NEVER see a dime from me.

iambic buys Datebk4/5 on Google too!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 12:15:28 PM #
Seems the folks over at iambic have bought ads on Google using "datebk4" and "datebk5" as keywords. If you go to www.google.com and put "datebk4" in the search, on the right will pop up an ad from a company that has "Ethics and strong customer support have always been the cornerstone of iambic's success." Interesting enough, if you search on actionnames it doesn't show an iambic ad. Shame on iambic.
RE: iambic buys Datebk4/5 on Google too!!!
PR @ 5/10/2002 12:56:58 PM #
as well as minicalc, and quicksheet, and others...

RE: iambic buys Datebk4/5 on Google too!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:12:18 PM #
Iambic is just another one of those greedy corporations following in the foot steps microsoft and aol. Hope Iambic learns a really hard lesson out of this. I am afriad this is one of the big drawbacks of unregulated capitalism (it denegrates into cut-throat competition)


Greed is good!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:24:21 PM #
Greed is good. (Gordon Gecko, Wall Street.)
RE: iambic buys Datebk4/5 on Google too!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 5:55:31 PM #
it's "Gekko".
RE: iambic buys Datebk4/5 on Google too!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2002 10:42:33 AM #
Do you mean the lizard on TV? sorry that's Gecko -), or maybe you want Geico

Is it over?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2002 1:00:53 PM #
Iambic has relented. The datebk4.com and datebk5.com are now blank, too.

They have gotten bad press which is usually bad for business. This will linger for everybody disagreeing with it. With the size of the Palm market, word-of-mouth is still very influential.

And, it is unknown if they will keep datebk4.com and datebk5.com blank. If they don't this will start all-over again.

It isn't enough

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2002 3:53:48 PM #
Iambic needs to come completely clean on this. What's the deal on them buying Google Action Names using their competitor's products? Iambic has a serious ethics problem and they need to start explaining what they intend to do about it. If I was a programmer for Iambic, I would be looking for another job. I would not work for a company like this.
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