Comments on: iambic Registers Domain with Rival's Product Name

The article on news.com is up now, cute headline they came up with.

Second, if you don't like PIC, you can probably type in a different website and just not visit.

Third, this didn't start as its own topic. The discussion began as a thread in the DateBk released article. Then this topic quickly sprung legs. Next, Iambic responded. BAM, it's a story in its own right.

Fourth, this is a great topic and likely being viewed in other industries. It calls out ethics of the web, as well as, responsibility by companies to prevent this happening to them.

Finally, this is by far the best site for PalmOS information, period. The people that visit, geeky as we may be, want to know what's going on.

Keep up the great work Ed.

Their "press release" takes us all for fools and is an insult to the user community.

I have deleted the one Iambic application that I had on my PDA and will buy no more until I see an immediate and sustained change in their actions. They cannot afford to sit around on this. If it takes them a few more days to do the right thing, I will never buy another Iambic product and will actively advise other users not to also.

Personally, I think that Steuart Dewar has far too much class to wade into this quagmire, but the official statement from Iambic does not ring true. It's pretty obvious that Iambic was intending on driving internet traffic intended for pimlico products to their site.

Especially when you consider that Iambic has also bought keywords from Google on the Adwords program for:
Quickoffice
Quicksheet
Minicalc
Documents To Go
Datebk4
Datebk5

*sigh* I'm sure some folks will say this is just good old business competition practices, but I consider it shameful :-(

Oh yeah, LOTS of people abbreviate DateBook like that...

lets note specifically that it had to be datebk4 and datebk5 (exact spelling of product released by their competitor). their statement doesn't mention anything about the removal of posts from their forums, nor the banning of users from their forums. it took them almost an entire day to figure out that it was a problem (and, then, write a short explanation). this is a PR stunt gone wrong - big time. now, iambic and datebk are known everywhere, both of them getting traffic, which means sales.. who are the losers here? the users. :) this publicity just made a few people richer... not posting on the subject would have been the best thing. i dont condone iambics actions (they should know what they did was wrong) :) they are treading on very thin ice - and, its not nice to be in their position right now (been there myself)

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/

If these are what they consider ethics, how must their customer service be?

In addition, the censorship on their forums should beg the question about what other types of topics have been ... adjusted? If someone were to gripe, for example, about a serious bug in one of their applications, can anyone trust ever again that it would be made available for others to see?

The biggest complaints I have seen are that there are no categories for appointments, which I have found can be easily worked around by using icons and filtering the list according to what icon is on the appointment, and that you can't link an appointment to multiple contacts... which is a good time to add a note to the appointment with those contacts.

Has anyone seen ActNames on the new Clie NR70? Awesome...

Yes it's kinda wrong, but really, most who care already use Datebk!

Long Live Iambic and their sleazy business practices!

Hey, I'm not saying that ActionNames isn't a good program -- for some people, particularly those whose schedules are predominantly contacts-related, it is a great solution.

(For other people, the built-in Datebook application suits their needs fine for others, LifeBalance is "da bomb" for others...). One of the great things about the PalmOS is that there is typically a selection of great software in any given category, and we are free to find the one that suits our personal needs best. Different strokes for different folks...

I'm not going to slag someone over their preference for another application - whatever works FOR YOU.

That being said, there's no question that DateBk5 is the most powerful and flexible datebook replacement app available. Like any powerful, flexible tool you have to RTFM and learn to use it. AN may be easier to use out-of-the-box and have a smaller memory footprint but it is a lot less capable than DateBk5.

Personally, I find DateBk5 to be an extremely efficient utility for managing what feels like an insanely complex web of responsibilities and demands on my time. I feel efficient and on top of things. And that makes me feel good! :-)

Let's all delete our iambic products while we're at it. Suggestions for replacements?

On the other hand, if it were related to the product...

Stephen

Yay.

I don't like seeing negative reviews on Palmgear that may be fake... Mine is a real review on the product, but I never bothered to post it until this whole fiasco.

Let's not push for fake negative reviews. Let's push for real negative reviews to be made public.

-Raj Phangureh

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What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

I've sent off a request for a refund to Iambic. We'll see if they respond at all.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

BTW, They've pointed back to the blank page. The LEAST they can do is atleast give both domains to Pimlico software to show they really feel sorry. Not even Microsoft would do such a thing! )

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http://pdan.has.it
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You don't want to grow old but you don't want to die young!
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I bet there were other newbie's who did the same thing I did back then, and not knowing any better, downloaded AN instead of DateBk4/5.

I don't have a problem with people trying AN the program suits some people much better than DB, but it is dishonest to give someone one thing, when they _asked_ for another. - rana

No, we need less indifference. Before we grow up, you should really pick a better analogy. What you wrote makes no sense (at least to me). Paying for advertisement for your own product is not wrong, but it's not the same as misleading the uninformed public by claiming that your competitor's product [name] is yours, only "abbreviated".

Maybe if unethical business practices weren't so common, we wouldn't be ranting about what iambic has done. Maybe if more people who believe in fair competition spoke up, Microsoft wouldn't be where they are (after all, THEY got to the top purely on ETHICAL business practices alone).

The worst people can do is just sit and wait for things to happen. You can do that, fine. That's your choice. But I, as well as countless others, cannot--especially when it's blantantly obvious that iambic felt it necessary to steal the names (as well as version numbers, mind you) of direct competitor's products.

So it has nothing to do with "growing up." What I took your statement as was: "Shut up and stop whining." Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure didn't sound constructive.

Less laws on the internet? You must love receiving spam and virii. Or worse, spread them? :P


Jim

This is all reminding me of the day the corporate lawer told a group of us that it's only unethical if it's illegal. Fortunately the public for the most part knows better than to follow a lawer's definition. Still, your comparison and points are pretty inaccurate. What Microsoft did (and still does) was not just unethical, it was also illegal. What Iambic has done, though of questionable ethics, was not illegal as far as I know.

For it to be illegal, Pimlico would actually have to want the domain names and be willing to pay for them, which apparently is not the case. Then we have stupid people here claiming that Iambic should redirect those sites to Pimlico. Sorry, but that is absolutlely wrong. Domain names cost money and it is certainly not not Iambic's responsibilty to pay to advertize for Pimlico. You claim we "need less indifference", but we also need the public to be more informed. Much of what has been posted to this site on this topic has been blown out of proportion and/or is misinformed.

Basically the public has spoke out against Iambic's questionable practices, and they seem to be responding. Like the original poster in this thread said, "let the customer vote (like you did in this case) and hopefully, common sense will prevail." That is what seems to be happening.

You're right. But I never stated that it was illegal, just unethical.

: Then we have stupid people here claiming that Iambic
: should redirect those sites to Pimlico. Sorry, but
: that is absolutlely wrong. Domain names cost money
: and it is certainly not Iambic's responsibilty to pay
: to advertize for Pimlico.

I don't refute this point either. Maybe you didn't understand what I was referring to because I didn't go into too much detail (since I didn't want to make it too long). I was merely pointing out that the original poster was using a poor analogy. Anyway, what's done is done, even if iambic did redirect back to pimlico (which would be just as wrong as buying it in the first place with bad intent), that wouldn't really solve the problem.

: You claim we "need less indifference", but we also
: need the public to be more informed. Much of what has
: been posted to this site on this topic has been blown
: out of proportion and/or is misinformed.

No argument there. It's good to raise awareness and to better inform the public, which is the opposite of indifference (which is what I was saying), but wanting "iambic to die" is certainly not the answer. (Though, I can't blame many for feeling so strongly against them.)

And don't ask me what the solution is, I don't know either. Heh. :) Only time will tell.


Jim

deep breath everyone... hold it... hold it... now release... feel the stress flowing from you, ah... again.... in.... hold it .... release.... ahhhh.

now, back to work

ps i am buying all the web sites i can think of and pointing them to porn (long live porn!)
my list of sites to register

palmpilot - (that really fits for porn)
palmmaster - another good one
palmlover - i kill myself :)
palminfocentrAL - i always type that...

nategall says "blah!"

And no - I have no affiliation to Iambic whatsoever, except I am a happy customer (with AN5).

We need to keep on them.

Stephen

:)

Cheers..

Grow up or shut up - you're more offensive than your portrayal of Iambic.

I am not taking position with anyone. I respect everyone.

I'am just saying that iambic (an american company) is the only company who makes the effort with european suppport since two years, when every software producer (all from US) ignore us.

We (european) don't invent the Palm (unfortunately we don't have people like Jeff Hawkins here), we don't have any cool american company like iambic or dataviz here too (we don"t have any people like vidal here too), and we don't have Microsoft too.

At least, something good with a company like iambic, is that each time i asked them a question, i have an aswer in French, and it's so great for poor european like us ! I'm quite old (50 years old) but i like technology, and i always respect those who understand that everyone are not early adoptors and those who take time to answer when you have questions.

I'm thinking about the poor french men of the tech support who spend with me more than two hours and 20 mails last year, sometime just too explain me something about the Palm himself, even not their software ! Since this support, i always had a good feeling with them.
Obviously,this type of thing is bad (good luck for his association) but when i say it's unfair, i am thinking about the time people spend in the tech support, and the time their reputation fall. That is clearly my explanation by using the word "unfair"

The interesting question is who this guy votes for: Chirac or Le Pen?

If you find Iambic's approach to business to be appropriate in this case, I suppose I'd question your ethics as well. Misleading consumers is how you build business? Come on... what business are you in?

Iambic shows no remorse for trying to mislead unsuspecting customers.

LOL indeed.

As every palm business company are dying, we will have to buy microsoft product, like everyone.

Really clever.

1. Because it's dishonest and deceptive.
2. That's a false dilemma. We don't have to choose we can be angry about both.
3. There's nothing we can DO about the Middle East. We CAN make a difference in this matter.

So... welcome to the bandwagon...FOOL! :-P

And what does the fact that he's a millionaire have anything to do with it?

The proceeds from his Palm apps go to Gorilla Haven - a project that has been in planning for a long time, and will be opening this year.

Those of us who are registered users have helped make this happen, and I think that that is VERY cool.

This is a good point, Iambic really doesn't consider this much of a problem, since they see posted here a lot of I.M. Anonymous posts.

Vote with your e-mail! Send pr@iambic.com and vidal@iambic.com a message telling them what you think, as well as voicing your opinion on any future business they may have just lost...

http://www.petitiononline.com/iambic/petition.html

However, my only gripe about these online petitions is the fact that all it takes is 1 troll to ruin the sincerity of it all.

Take for example signee No. 89. Carl Yankowski? Heh. I really hope it's just coincidence that there's another Carl Yankowski out there signing said petition. :)

I'll admit, it's funny. But it doesn't exactly help the cause either.


Jim

-Koko

And no, it's not "HiJacking". The term is called cybersquatting. And yes, it *is* illegal.

cyber-squatting

The practice of registering famous brand names as Internet domain names, e.g. harrods.com, ibm.firm or sears.shop, in the hope of later selling them to the appropriate owner at a profit.

(1998-01-22) (Courtesy of Dictionary.com)

note the "in the hope of later selling them to the appropriate owner at a profit" part. THAT is the nature of cybersquatting. Unethical advertisement practice? Yes. Hijacking? No. Cybersquatting? No. Foolish? Yes. Justifying this insane lynch mob? No.

It's not cybersquatting either

Sorry Kaitou, but you need to do a little better research than relying on dictionary.com - purchasing domains for resale at a profit is only part of the story... -)

Check out both the ICANN domain name dispute resolution process and the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act (ACPA):

Both contain wording to the effect:

That by using the domain name, the registrant has intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to a web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the trademark holder's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of the site.

That's obviously the intent here, so I think that using the term CyberSquatting is entirely justified.

Sure, they are not in the business of buying domain names for their competition, but transferring ownership is a good start in healing the wounds that they have caused, and would be a gesture of goodwill.

good luck with that.

ps. you cannot possibly be jesus, because I am.
na-na-na-na-na-na!

nategall says "blah!"

you haven't gotten laid in a while, have you?

And don't worry, I don't work at Iambic. I actualy work at a fairly large banking firm.

I am in Australia.
I have no affiliation with Iambic - and I don't care emotionally for either company. I just respect good hard business play. The world is full of business losers and has a few winners. Thats life.

As to publishing my IP....Do it PIC and I'll redefine the word lawsuit for you.

Also, publishing your IP address is a non-issue. There are no legal requirements that your IP address must be hidden.

Ed, I would suggest you check out the IP addresses of suspicious posters to see if they are coming from Iambic :)

I have the feeling that it is not the lawsuit of a practice (we see that million and million times since internet) but some datebook fans who needs to give cool ads to their product.

Hey grow up men !

Buying a domain name with the product name of a competitor is a non-issue (unless the competitor wants that name). There are no legal requirements as to what domain names you can buy.

The original poster was right, "the moral outrage here is contemptible." You want to start a witch hunt? If this site published the IP addresses previously anonymous posts, I can tell you what the next group of outraged people would be boycotting and what the next top story on PDABuzz will be.

Give it up people. You did your job, you complained, you got news items posted, and Iambic relented. What else do you want them to do, go out of business, get up on a stage and do tricks? Move on to the next more worthy cause.

I am a machiavellian - I endorse Conrads' writings on the pretentions of societal niceties and I deplore your tedious attempt to ascribe concrete legal/ethical absolutes of one case in a flexible legal environment that internet case law is pro tempe.

Not a slime bag - just aware and practical and amoral and uninterested in the well-being of plimco, its sycophants and purile ethical appologists who seem to be in abundance in northern america this side of September 11....

As for Pimlico being guilty of the same behavior, give me a break. It's obvious from just the fact that he had not registered these domains himself that CESD just goes on his merry way letting word of mouth do his advertising for him and doesn't worry about trying to keep one jump ahead of the competition. This is a guy that gives free upgrades and answers ALL his support questions himself. Give me a break and find a better person to pick on.

And here you are reading and posting (as an IMA, no doubt) about the same issue. Wow. I guess your life is so much better than everyone else's. You must be the exception.

What's wrong with allowing people to express their own opinions, especially when they feel passionate about it? And what better place to post messages than on a message board? I'll admit that some posts are just blindingly (is that a word?) extreme, but hey.. to each his own.

I seriously doubt anyone will take seriously one who tells others to "get a life" when they're doing the exact same thing: expressing their opinions.


Jim