Comments on: Head of Pimlico Calls for End of iambic Protests

Steuart Dewar, head of Pimlico Software, has circulated an email stating that he has accepted the apology from Vidal Graupera, CEO of iambic, for his company's recent actions and would like the Palm community to do the same. After offering thanks for all the efforts on his behalf, Mr. Dewar said, "I think we should consider that reason and ethics prevailed and that the final resolution is satisfactory enough for us to move on and get back to the issues at hand." He went on to say that he would be dismayed to see any kind of illegal or unethical attacks made against iambic because of this issue.
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That's All Folks

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 9:50:06 AM #
Sounds good. 'Nuff said.

Class act

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:24:59 AM #
Mr. Dewars is a real class act.

JBH

RE: Class act
bookrats @ 5/14/2002 11:04:12 AM #
One of the classiest. A role model for developers, software supporters and entrepreneurs alike.

Example: Someone on the Pimlico user's group at Yahoo! had asked for three enhancements to the Datebk4 UI. In his reply, CESD said one of them was too difficult -- and then explained, in a way that both technical and non-technical people could understand, *why* it was difficult.

(Of the other two enhancements, he said one was in the works, and one was already in Datebk5...)

----

Jeff Meyer

RE: Class act
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 4:05:26 PM #
I've met Mr. Dewar personally at a couple of PalmSource events and
he is indeed a fine upstanding gentleman. Here's to Gorillas!
RE: Class act
wintermute @ 5/14/2002 6:31:10 PM #
I have to agree, and that is whats going to make a good impression on him and Pimlico in the future. It's nice to see some superiors on companies such as Pimlico are not all about the money.

------------------------------------
http://pdan.has.it
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You don't want to grow old but you don't want to die young!
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Well done.

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:38:33 AM #
Stick a fork in this one...

Let's Move On

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:51:43 AM #
We make mistakes, important thing is that we are given a chance to repent and I applaud what Mr. Dewar is doing. Let's move on.
RE: Let's Move On
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 11:21:18 AM #
> We make mistakes

LOL.

Making unethical choices is not just a mistake. It's evidence of sleaze and shady business practices.

You probably think carjacking is just a mistake.

RE: Let's Move On
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 11:44:48 AM #
The pricks still don't support the Handera 330 so screw them and their products. And censoring and banning users from newsgroups is total bull****.

And for the record ther was no "mistake" in what Iambic did it was calculated move motivated by greed. As it happens it backfired and they ended up with egg on their face. Anything after they did after that is purely corporate damage control.

RE: Let's Move On
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 1:47:22 PM #
you still use a Handera 330? Haha!
RE: Let's Move On
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 4:15:55 PM #
What's a handera, when you count on your fingers wrong?
RE: Let's Move On
wintermute @ 5/14/2002 6:33:52 PM #
QUOTE: "What's a handera, when you count on your fingers wrong?"

lol, I still think the Handera is not so behind technology. BTW, i'm probably crazy, but I personally do not hate the look of the Handera.

------------------------------------
http://pdan.has.it
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You don't want to grow old but you don't want to die young!
------------------------------------

Kudos, Mr. Dewar

scouter075 @ 5/14/2002 11:31:44 AM #
What a gracious and classy gentleman! We should take a lesson from Mr. Dewar's example.

Dennis G. Esler
scouter075@attbi.com
RE: Kudos, Mr. Dewar
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 12:03:16 PM #
I agree... if only all business people could act in such manners towards something so small like this. and if only the consumers would follow.
RE: Kudos, Mr. Dewar
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 1:48:57 PM #
Works for me, let's move on, now how about that Palm with the hi-res screen?

Dewar needed in Middle East!

ardee @ 5/14/2002 12:20:13 PM #
Classy and correct attitude and actions by Mr. Dewar.

We could sure use him to the Middle East! -)


RE: Dewar needed in Middle East!
alchemist @ 5/14/2002 9:27:55 PM #
Also back here in Argentina!!!! :-)

We could use hardly anyone...

_________
alchemist

RE: Dewar needed in Middle East!
Mathrocks314 @ 5/14/2002 10:02:26 PM #
Sounds like a plan

-Mathrocks314
RE: Dewar needed in Middle East!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 7:15:14 AM #
I'd rather see General Schwartzkopf over there again, him and 10 or 20 armored divisions (Palmpilots optional).

Mistakes, Apologia and Consequences.

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 12:25:48 PM #
I can appreciate Mr Dewar's comments insofar as he is trying to call attention to and deter well meaning defenders from,
actions he considers to be extreme.
He should be applauded for his call to mercy.
However, neither he nor Iambic should expect that the comments which are to be taken as an apology are enough to restore any of the equanimity with which Iambic used to be viewed .
They have indeed stirred up a hornets nest, and while I will agree that some of the reaction is over the top.
Iambic should never expect to have their reputiation immediatly restored. At least as long as they continue to ban from their forums, users with legitimate criticisms.
RE: Mistakes, Apologia and Consequences.
Kaitou @ 5/14/2002 1:24:10 PM #
As someone who both runs sites with message boards, and works(ed) at companies that have message boards, I'd like to point out that legimate or not, their board does not have to give you a place to express your disagreement with their policies. Infact I have seen a lot of companies close their forums completely and go back to email only support after incidents of this sort. Thats because the boards are for software discussions and issues, not company policy issues, and while a convinient outlet for that by disgruntled surfers the comments do get deleted, and people do get banned if they continue to post.
They shouldn't have registered the domains, but deleting the posts is well in their right, and you'd be hard pressed to find any company that would allow you the use of their forums to go into detail on how much you dislike them =p

RE: Mistakes, Apologia and Consequences.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 6:27:39 PM #
Their forums are not particularly useful. At least with Iambic mail. Their forum moderators never seem to respond to questions. All somewhat useless.

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 1:07:10 PM #
[SATIRE]

How dare Mr. Dewar forgive a company so nefarious as iambic?

Iambic should be terrorized, yes, terrorized. We should all hack their servers and ensure that they and their customers are forever in fear of losing their credit and their identities. Fear is a powerful tool. So is destruction. If you know where iambic's offices are, burn them down! Let's attack everyone who works for iambic! Bomb their homes if you must, because this kind of unethical behavior will NOT be tolerated by the Palm community! Let it be known that those who DARE violate the posted commandments of the Palm Community will be punished!

As for Mr. Dewar, this just shows how all these business power-brokers are all conspiring with each other AGAINST those of us who make the ethically-minded Palm community. He's against us just like the rest, and he deserves to be punished, too!

[/SATIRE]

RE: OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
Kaitou @ 5/15/2002 9:24:32 AM #
Same thing happened to me as to you =p
the post I was replying to was deleted at the same time as I was writing my reply.

The real world would pity the''Palm community''

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 1:21:41 PM #
I certainly hope this story hits the mainstream news, not because I want to vilify iambic any more, but because it will expose the overzealous losers in the Palm community such as this one:

<< Despite this, some people are continuing with the protests, a few possibly taking it too far. iambic was sent an email earlier this week that said, in part, "I operate the DNS servers for a regional ISP, which provide name resolution for well over 5000 people. Our DNS servers also serve other affiliated ISPs. I have set our servers to be authoritative for the zones iambic.com, datebk4.com and datebk5.com, all of which now point to www.pimlicosoftware.com." >>

Man, if you're willing to put your job on the line with these kinds of TERRORIST tactics over a f***ing software calendar program, you need to be checked into a mental facility. And yes, I know you losers will claim "it's not just software it's principles, it's ethics, blah, blah, blah." BULLSH**!!! Principles and ethics is one thing, but most of what's happening now is sanctimonious crap spewed by lifeless geeks who cloak their own quasi-violent, judgemental tendencies under the terms "ethics." You people are sick.

RE: The real world would pity the''Palm community''
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 1:46:41 PM #
One word, AMEN!
RE: The real world would pity the''Palm community''
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 2:18:51 PM #
"Principles and ethics is one thing, but most of what's happening now is sanctimonious crap spewed by lifeless geeks who cloak their own quasi-violent, judgemental tendencies under the terms "ethics." You people are sick."

So... what you're trying to tell us is that C-A-T really spells DOG?

RE: The real world would pity the''Palm community''
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 3:14:29 PM #
No, C-A-T still spells CAT. But a dog wearing a cat costume is still a dog, not matter what type of camoflauge it tries to use.

I think the saddest thing about this is that people are actually THREATENING iambic with ILLEGAL retribution over a calendar software. Boycott iambic all you want, but the idea of ILLEGAL retaliation for their actions is assinine, hypocritical, and just plain pitiful. The world already kind of looks sideways at the "Palm Community" (i.e., PDA nerds), and this should only reaffirm that idea. Way to go, folks!

RE: The real world would pity the''Palm community''
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 5:54:14 PM #
" No, C-A-T still spells CAT. But a dog wearing a cat costume is still a dog, not matter what type of camoflauge it tries to use."

Dude, lighten up. It was a joke. (Bonus points for where this line came from :)

I don't know what's worse. These so-called "PDA Nerds" or you with something apparently up your butt.

Feel the wrath

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 1:57:19 PM #
Maybe forgiveness is some Christian thing or something, but I belong to the TWO EYES FOR AN EYE school of thought.

I will never do business with IAMBIC. As the purchaser of software for handhelds in my corporation, I will make sure that IAMBIC gets no business from us. I will tell my friends who are purchasing managers in other corporations to not buy IAMBIC software either.

Feel the wrath IAMBIC.

RE: Feel the wrath
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 2:07:42 PM #
That's fine. What Dewar is saying is that's enough, too. The punishment fits the crime. iambic did something bad, was caught, and its reputation has been hurt badly. Doing anything illegal to hurt iambic over this makes you as bad as they are.
RE: Feel the wrath
Kaitou @ 5/14/2002 2:12:54 PM #
run out of prozac did we?

Merciful Cthulhu I really can't belive some of these people.

They registered domain names

repeat after me

d-o-m-a-i-n n-a-m-e-s

good. Now lets take some deep breaths. think of flying doves or gently flowing water for a while.
Feeling better?
Good.

Now forgiveness isn't a Christian thing, and I say this as I am not a Christian. It is a human thing. If everyone was like what you prescribe then humanity would have wiped itself off the face of this planet long ago. The only person/group wronged here was Pimlico and their CEO, who happens to be a gentleman. They have accepted the apology, and feel things need to move on. Your ranting isn't very becoming of someone who makes important decisions in a corporation, and I'd pity anyone there as it seems that personal feelings overshadow your decision making process. People on these holy crusades are the ones who insist the entire company adopt something due to the fact that they start to salivate like a rabid hyena when presented with a Wrong™ that needs to be Righted™

So calm down, and get off your high horse.

RE: Feel the wrath?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 3:21:44 PM #
"Feel the wrath?" Who are you, Khan? Darth Vader? First off, NOBODY talks that way. Secondly, get over it. If you, as "purchaser of handhelds," refuse to purchase an iambic product over this, and that iambic turns out to be superior to those of competitors, and your company loses money as a result of your crusade, well, I have one word for you..."unemployed."

As for your claims that you will encourage all your colleagues, I suggest you try to be a little LESS self-important. It's one thing to boycott iambic software, it's something totally different--and egotistical--to imply that your efforts will single-handedly create this wave of negative feeling toward iambic.

RE: Feel the wrath
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 4:19:21 PM #
Since when do purchasing managers hang out together?
RE: Feel the wrath
Kaitou @ 5/14/2002 4:41:41 PM #
Well merciful as in bringing an end to it... how that end is brought about of course, well it depends on your definition of "mercy" even the madness could be an act of mercy compared to whats about to happen.

RE: Feel the wrath
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 4:43:47 PM #
Quote: "They registered domain names"

And then they tried to cover it up and they tried to pretend like they did nothing wrong, and they banned their users from Forums and email lists for questioning their actions, and they refused to answer email. And they tried to make less of it, until finally it was obvious that a LOT of people were mad.

Iambic did not just one little small mistake. They made one mistake and then compounded it with a bunch of other mistakes. That's what really got people upset. But I agree with CESD, time to move on to other more important (and interesting topics). However, doesn't mean I will easily forgive Iambic for their actions, as one of those users that own their products and were treated quite badly during this.


RE: Feel the wrath
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 1:21:17 AM #
"depends on your definition of "mercy" even the madness could be an act of mercy compared to whats about to happen."

Wow.. you're so philosophical! Can I be your friend? PLEAAASE?!

RE: Feel the wrath
Kaitou @ 5/15/2002 9:26:46 AM #
Why sure! I've always wanted a paranoid schizophrenic as a friend, and looking at all your posts, you must be the most advanced case yet =p

RE: Feel the wrath
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 1:34:51 PM #
""Feel the wrath?" Who are you, Khan? Darth Vader?"

LOL, good one.

Move on!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 2:04:45 PM #
I dislike Iambic practices in general, but ENOUGH with this. Let's move on!!
RE: Move on!
jjsoh @ 5/14/2002 2:20:06 PM #
Hahaha.. I agree. People can boycott, chastise, harass, forgive, support (etc etc) iambic all they want. It's their choice.

BUT.. the only way we can move on (at least here at PIC) is when there's enough news to shift all iambic news off the front page of this site. :)


Jim

We are forgetting the true victims.

lemmings @ 5/14/2002 3:16:09 PM #
Yes it was a very classy thing that Mr. Dewar did, but until I hear the gorillas accepting Iambic's apology I will continue to avoid purchasing Iambic software.

RE: We are forgetting the true victims.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 3:29:18 PM #
Should we play "Kum-Bah-Yah" in the background as you comment?

That's a real laugher..."Iambic killed the gorillas." You'd better get over THAT one.

RE: We are forgetting the true victims.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:20:11 PM #
"Yes it was a very classy thing that Mr. Dewar did, but until I hear the gorillas accepting Iambic's apology I will continue to avoid purchasing Iambic software."

LOL,
But soon the gorrilas will rise up against their oppressors.

Coming to a theater near you:
Planet of the apes II
"Terror at Iambic"

RE: We are forgetting the true victims.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 8:05:00 AM #
Coming to a theater near you:
Planet of the apes II
"Terror at Iambic"

LOL!!! Best joke I've seen about this whole nasty business. Thanks for the laugh!

CESD rises above it all

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 3:21:15 PM #
Mr. Dewar, as always, seems to have the right answer. Whether he's personally answering fretful emails from Datebk users, or he's expertly managing the iambic crisis, he responds gracefully and sensibly.

I've been dumbfounded in the past at how much time and energy he is able to devote to his Datebk program. Without exception, he responds in a gentlemanly manner to any and all comments and complaints about his program upgrades. How he is able to do this when a good portion of complaints are from people who need to RTFM, I do not know, but he is to be commended for his customer-oriented approach.

iambic will recover in time, but there will always be a scar. The Palm community's aggressive reaction to iambic's questionable behavior is a tribute to Mr. Dewar's honesty and hard working nature. He didn't need to say a word in his defense. The Palm world really had his back on this one.

Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget that.

iain.collins @ 5/14/2002 3:57:55 PM #
The sort of predatory business practice that includes the registering of domains belonging to competitors is indemic of the practice of a business as a whole.

Iambic are only sorry the got caught out and that it backfired - they are NOT sorry they did it because it hurt Pimlico (or any gorillas).

They WOULD NOT have suddenly have had a change of heart if there had been no backlash. They are ONLY apologing because it will make them look better. This is 'damage limitation' in practice as is a basic tennate of good marketing (used in business and politics the world over for centuries to recover from such public relations disasters).

Unless Mr Dewar realise this, he is being taken advantage of (and so is your good nature, if you accept Iambic's apology at face value).

I would say that anyone who thinks otherwise, hasn't had much relevant business experiance (and if you did this while running a commerical operation you would be eaten alive by the competion, no matter *how* good your product).

RE: Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget tha
sremick @ 5/14/2002 5:57:36 PM #
I have to agree with Ian on this one. This is business, not grade school.

Iambic showed they realized this when they took the risk of registering the domain names of their competitor's product. The potential backlash should they get caught should have been part of this calculated risk. If not, I have no sympathy for them. Although I'm against stupid retalitory acts such as the DNS one mentioned, I am all for people voting with their checkbooks and word-of-mouth.

Mr. Dewer should be respected for his response, however I think it is the proper function of the marketplace to respond appropriately. (Iambic's) Actions speak louder than (Iambic's) words. Calls to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" are just silly. We ARE paying attention, and from now on will make decisions based upon this new knowledge of what this company is willing to do to make a buck.

Like Ian said: Iambic wouldn't have been sorry if they hadn't been caught. IF they HADN'T been caught, then came back and said, "look, everyone. We did this a while back, decided it was wrong, and are now donating the $100,000 to Pimlico we feel we unjustly took from them due to lost sales" that would be different. But do you really see that having happened? I didn't think so.

They treated you like mindless consumers. Therefore, it is only proper to treat Iambic like a souless company in a competitive marketplace, and take your business elsewhere.


RE: Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget that.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 6:20:46 PM #
$100,000 in sales... please.
RE: Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget that.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:27:40 PM #
iain.collins is right, in assessing Iambics response. However you are wrong about Dewar. His response was perfect. It demonstrates the clear distiction between these two companies. He just shows class and decorum even when he is being wronged. This cements loyalty to him even more. Much of the reason why people are fighting mad is that Dewar is too nice to put on the gloves. But never forget he is also doing what is best for buisness.

Look closely. He never said we should go on and support Iambic if we like their products. He only commented on "extremists" who would take action in his behalf. While he said to "move on" he also said this will not soon be forgotten. There is a reason why he thanked us for support. He is a class act no doubt. But as a shrewd buisnessman he knows his "restraint" will do far more to feed his Gorrillas, than if he responded in kind to Iambic.


RE: Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget that.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:33:20 PM #
Oh here's the original letter I intended to send-- Vidal.

I would like to offer an apology for offending people by registering datebk4.com and datebk5.com. -- but all you who criticized me for it are still banned from our forums!

This practice was not in keeping with our standards, --since our standards are usually much lower, and also call for not being caught!

and we are currently reviewing our marketing methods -- to make sure that in the future, we won't get caught.

RE: Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget that.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2002 10:57:25 PM #
LOL
RE: Iambic are only sorry it backfired, let's not forget that.
jjsoh @ 5/15/2002 1:15:33 AM #
LOL indeed. Pretty funny.


Jim

ActionNames

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 1:26:07 AM #
I will absolutely continue to use and buy Action Names as long as it is the only major DateBk(!) with support for my NR70.
I have used DateBk3 and 4, but since i purchased my NR70, I really can't do without the use of the full screen. Once Pimlico makes DateBk work in 320x480, maybe I'll revisit my decision.

Until then I think iambic should have full rights to www.datebkforNR70.com.

RE: ActionNames
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 12:01:35 PM #
CESD has hinted that he will support NR70 soon in DateBk5. He has bought a device himself.

Trust, but verify...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 4:25:14 AM #
... as a former U.S. President once said. To put it differently, "Fool me once, shame on you fool me twice, shame on me!"

I accept the apology, but that is not even remotely enough to engender my trust. In fact, I still don't trust iambic and will stick to my vow to NEVER purchase ANY of their products again!

iambic's apology on their forum...spooky...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 4:35:45 AM #
did any of you notice the smilie that the CEO used for his apology post on his forum at iambic ?

http://www.iambic.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1426

RE: iambic's apology on their forum...spooky...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 8:54:18 AM #
If follow their forum closely, you will notice that when you pick "no icon" it gives you that big smile. Just a mis-configuration. You can try for yourself.

Unleash your anger man. It's over. Go take care of your wife and kids.

RE: iambic's apology on their forum...spooky...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2002 9:14:15 AM #
Ah, but you miss the underlying point. He has no wife. He has no children. He has no prospects. He has NO LIFE!

Screwing with DNS like the threat is not possible

Fuzzball @ 5/16/2002 2:55:42 AM #
You can't just do the redirect like that. You can't screw with DNS like that. If you had a private DNS server, then maybe. Deffinently not a public one. The root DNS is not editable like that. The domain's Name Server would have to change or the entries in the Name Server. I doubt that dude has control. Check it out yourself:

http://www.internic.net/faqs/authoritative-dns.html

RE: Actually it is possible.
iain.collins @ 5/16/2002 8:41:33 AM #
Yes you can actually - he has a public DNS server.

All you do is create a zone file for the domain and predend it's local and anyone using your DNS servers (could easily be tens of thousands of users if you are an ISP/hosting company like this guy) .


RE: Screwing with DNS like the threat is not possible
iain.collins @ 5/16/2002 8:45:44 AM #
Incidentally, if you had a router are were able to inject new BGP routes, you could even advertise their netblock and null route all traffic to that companies network.

This is what Above.net, now Metro Fiber Networks, did to Alan Brown's Orbs and is *far* more devastating and can impact all your upstreams customers as well as your customers.

(But of course, how devastating it is depends on how high up the food chain you are).

DateBK5.com free and available.

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/20/2002 7:34:34 AM #
The controversial DateBK5 and DateBK4 domain names are now available for registering.

I wish someone registers them and points them to Pimlico Software. With all that has happened I think porn sites will be crazy to get a hold of these domains.

Please someone register these domains and point them to Pimlico!

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