Comments on: Rumor: Images of Color HandEra Device Leaked
Someone who says he is the biggest Handera dealer in Germany has posted pictures and some details of what he says is a prototype color handheld from HandEra in PDABuzz's forums. According to him, the device runs Palm OS 4.1, has 16 MB of RAM, and 4 MB of ROM. It uses the Palm III connector which HandEra has modified to run at USB speeds. It uses an internal li-ion battery.
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RE: Huh, bulky?
RE: Huh, bulky? then its not for you!
RE: Huh, bulky?
btw, the NR series is not big at all, it's long, but big would not be an appropiate description.
Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!
RE: Huh, bulky?
RE: Huh, bulky?
RE: Huh, bulky?
No comparison here, NR70 is the BEST and most POWERFUL PDA available in the market today and Handera ? What is that ? It's only a brick, an ugly brick.
Best, huh?
RE: Huh, bulky?
(what is this? kindergarten trip to the Zoo?)
RE: Huh, bulky?
Those who predict that every company that produces a Palm based unit should be purchased by Sony are IDIOTS. Why do you want one company to produce all Palm devices? we all know how well that has worked in the IT sector.
Sorry for the rambling but the comments on this board have degraded to the Slashdot level. I want useful information and opinions. That is what I used to find here.
RE: Huh, bulky?
"Sorry for the rambling but the comments on this board have degraded to the Slashdot level. I want useful information and opinions. That is what I used to find here."
But you began buy saying:
"Sony is crap. Everything looks like the ugly a$$ stereos of the 70's. Hell even their car stereos are the same awful fake metallic look. Ugly exsits everywhere in each of the manufacturers product lines. Most of these people probably want Abercrobie & Bitch to brand a Palm device."
Yeah, very two-face of you.
RE: Huh, bulky?
Come again? I have to hand it to the Sony Visual Appeal Design Department but....
The shape of the NR70 is too cumbersome. You have to either use it sitting open (sometimes a very hard proposition, like when walking) or sacrifice the app buttons and be left with only the jog dial. and back button. I won't even start on the button layout for gaming but then again I will **** now, even though I am an owner of a 710c the handheld with the stiffest buttons in the world (I had to modify them so I could play games.... quite fun) But I also have to look at the fact that many PDA owners do not play games...
hmm.. this post may not make no sence what-so-ever because I'm on muscle relaxants right now - torn muscle in my back =(
Oh well,
Peace
-Bartman007
RE: Huh, bulky?
RE: Huh, bulky?
RE: Huh, bulky?
Where it says ''SUCKER!''
Uuuugly
Until now.
Boy that thing is a dog...
-Kevin Crossman
RE: Uuuugly
RE: Uuuugly
RE: Uuuugly
RE: Uuuugly
In the eye of the beholder...
To me, at least, it just goes to show that you can't expect one aesthetic design to please everyone any more than one featureset will.
I for one, like the Treo design--90, 180 and 270. I'm mixed on the Palm V/m5xx design. The Palm III series was ok, but lackluster (better in the darker tone, though). The m1xx--blah, ho-hum. The i705 would be better in actual metal rather than silver-painted plastic. Most of the Visors were ok; I liked the Edge, but not its stylus. The only Clies that really look worth much--IMO--are the T series. (That's aesthetically, remember, not in terms of the screen.)
But looks are only part of the picture anyway. While it would be good for HandEra to use a simple, understated design, there are a lot of other areas where their handhelds really deliver, and sometimes more so than other companies. And if this is a prototype, there may be other features and enhancements with more "wow" factor on the final result. Who knows? They may even give it a new look.
RE: Uuuugly
RE: Uuuugly
There's room in the market for many types of devices, and it is sad to see a quality board such as this one being polluted with the kind of juvenile rhetoric that we have seen such far.
If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1819-1892)
d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados
RE: Uuuugly
That said, on paper it's hard to beat the functionality that this device brings to the table, provided it ever gets built. Frankly, if I didn't already buy a hideous, overweight cinder block of an NR70V, I'd really consider adding this one to my PDA "stable" - CF, SD, color, virtual grafitti, a wealth of accessories... Aside from the looks, what's not to like?
-Adam
RE: Uuuugly
First PDA: PEG-NR70V
Comments: Amazing and well worth my money. However, if you're not a fan of the camera than you're not a fan of the NR70V. Buying it sans camera would be a big mistake. IMO
RE: Uuuugly
Wow, that's ugly
Not the Right Time
RE: Not the Right Time
RE: Not the Right Time
This Would've been AMAZING....
I just wish it came out a year ago.
I traded my Palm IIIxe for a Clie n610c last year, and I was amazed at the size difference. Realistically, it's not THAT big a difference when you're looking at it, but when you put it in your hand, it's like comparing the feel of a pencil with a thick magic marker.
I just couldn't go back to a Palm III form factor today.
---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html
What reason does Handera have for existing now?
The company's reluctance to produce the unit without retailer committments shows that they are wondering also. Even they don't know if this will sell. The Palm III form is so five-years-ago. A couple of years ago they may have had a niche but I just don't see it now.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/begging.htm
Anonymous Howard
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I mean, this begs the question, does anyone even know of any Palm OS application that makes use of 1 gig of expansion? If so, let them know that there is a color version of the brick coming out.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
>opinion would truely make a product stand out in
>today's crowded palm os market
Not any more, NR70's virtual graffiti will be far more better than this "thing".
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles.
I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
Remeber , u need to commit to buying 50 thousand of them .
Horrors!
Americans are so embarrasing when you get all patriotic!! I love that - with sony making inroads - you claim that these 'foreigners' are are pushing 'inferior' products on poor, helpless, americans! And to think - they way we helped out the whole world so much - you'd think they'd be more grateful for all the things we've done! Just stop it - we live in a different world now - okay? There aren't any commies under yr bed, the Japanese made it into the north american car market BECAUSE THEY WERE COMPETITIVE, and hiding behind 'troubled times' (terrorism - which is as old as humanity) as an excuse for this embarrassing pap is just plain silly. grow up.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
>>I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.
Is this guy being sarcastic?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months. Then they do NOTHING to promote the damn thing. Finally, they sell 3 and wonder why, don't release OS4.0, only include 2megs of Flash ram in a 330, design an SD card port that wont work with SD accesories. They blew the deal with CompUSA to get units in peoples hands. Sit on their asses for a year while Sony eats them for lunch. Fast forward 1 1/2 years later NO new hardware, No color units, NO OS4 release, NO support for AutoCard (still BETA for 1 year and counting), and a screen format no one supports. And the damn things are over priced as hell for a B&W unit.
I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Handera supporters that blindly kiss Handeras tender stupid ass and justify every stupid mistake this company has made. The problemn in IOWA is they are a bunch of engineer geeks with ZERO marketing/sales skills and a bunch of YES men kissing each others asses. They may have had the balls to try but they sure show no freaking brains in following through. Now H330 users get little or no support or respect from 3rd party applications, No OS4.0, No help from Handera to get 3rd party apps written. Screw them, they want to stay in business start by releaseing OS4 and getting some 3rd party apps to use the damn harware otherwise its just an expensive glorified 5 year old IIIxe PDA.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
OK, So no other device can have Wi-Fi because of a lack of CF slot? Well Gee I know of companies developing Wi-Fi SD cards, and Wi-Fi Sleds are out there.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
get real ok, we are talking about real product here, not some imaginary, soon released in undetermined future.
How big was Palm Inc's promise on this SD slot? supposedly we already have GPS, camera, modem, wireles, and whatever else on SDIO. (but so far.....
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: Off topic
There isn't much you can do about this. Have a look at your stuff around the house ... most of them are made not made in the USA. You need to face the fact that America does not equal the world (not any more anyway) and there are another 5.8 billion people out side America who also have the need by food and clothing. Boycotting foreign good will not solve the problem either. It will only made America even less competitive and in the long run, the degradeion of the standards of living. So instead of cying out, America need to join the completion and beat the others to win the race.
BTW, the Japanese don't make inferior products, not in this case. If they did, they wouldn't have lasted this long in a free market.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
and last I heard, the only device it worked with was a single wireless modem, plus it adds bulk to an already big device. All these sled devices are going to be slower than CF anyhow, because they either have to go through the serial port or be more expensive plus slower as a USB master device. Then on the software side, the sled devices and Springboards have all had to use PPP for connectivity, so speed suffers there as well. Sorry, but the Clies are the worst choice for any kind of expansion.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
The handera is made in Korea (Samsung)!
Still a great machine!
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble.
<<
Palm and Handspring may be incorporated in the U.S., but the m5xx series is built in Mexico and Hungary. The Treo is built in Mexico as well.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
There certainly are. And yet, it's more expensive, can only be used on a PDA series vs. a CF card that can be used in PalmOS devices, EPOC devices, PocketPC devices, Laptops, and desktops.
Also sleds are restricted to 115Kbps (the speed of the serial port). CF cards are already much faster on current hardware, with WiFi network hotsyncs faster than USB. And my own informal test of FTP transfers direct to/from SD over WiFi yielding 4-5 times the maximum rate of the serial port. On Arm hardware, we should be able to approach the full rates 11Mbps.
Ugggggggllllly
Prediction for 2002
Sony buys Palm for $50
Handspring for $20
and HandERA for $1.00
RE: Ugggggggllllly
Somebody develops a way to filter I.M Anonymous comments. Including this one! Ah!
RE: Ugggggggllllly
Handera , we will remember you FOREVER.
RE: Ugggggggllllly
Higgy
RE: Ugggggggllllly
Somebody develops a way to filter I.M Anonymous comments.
[/Quote]
That would be great! Take a look at this:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4995
RE: Ugggggggllllly
Why make such an ugly device?
Just dosent make sense in a world where people want sleek looking devices unless Handera has planned on this being a corporate-only device.
RE: Why make such an ugly device?
RE: Why make such an ugly device?
RE: Why make such an ugly device?
so meanwhile, it stays ugly
Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
I'm not saying we should support this device out of pity for the mfr, and, yes, with the unique yet marginalized API of the HandEra screen, this device is probably a non-starter (tell the German to order NR70s--oh right, it isn't going to be sold in Europe), but condemning it for being ugly or behind the times is an mean-spirited, immature form of stating the obvious.
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
others have stated. HandEra clearly cannot find a good industrial
designer -- or can't afford one (ie, frogdesign).
That said, it might just photograph badly (as the Toshiba PPC
e310 does).
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
All the comments here are about how ugly this thing is. Nobody said it was an easy thing to make a cutting edge device. But thats precisely what is so stupid about Handeras move here: They build this great device and then when it come to the 'easy part' they create the ugliest case imaginable. For all of the comparisons to a brick that people have written above, i think a basic magnesium box (a 'brick' if you will) would be a vast improvement on this horrid design.
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
Ever wonder why only Sony can have so many magnesium case in handheld products? (if you count Handspring ugly mold..well there is another one)
NR-70V available in Europe/Germany
FYI
On a more serious note...
RE: On a more serious note...
RE: On a more serious note...
This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version
Me thinks Handera, Palm, and um Treospring.. Handspring have no freaking clue how to come up with an exciting product..
Did I read Sonys profits were up because of demand for their handhelds???
RE: This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version
RE: This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version
Uglier than Watergate....
RE: Uglier than Watergate....
I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Handera supporters that blindly kiss Handeras tender stupid ass and justify every stupid mistake this company has made. The problemn in IOWA is they are a bunch of engineer geeks with ZERO marketing/sales skills and a bunch of YES men kissing each others asses. They may have had the balls to try but they sure show no freaking brains in following through. Now H330 users get little or no support or respect from 3rd party applications, No OS4.0, No help from Handera to get 3rd party apps written. Screw them, they want to stay in business start by releaseing OS4 and getting some 3rd party apps to use the damn harware otherwise its just an expensive glorified 5 year old IIIxe PDA.
RE: Uglier than Watergate....
RE: Uglier than Watergate....
Good Lord! Did one of those Iowa engineer geeks steal your girlfriend? Fire you? Drink your chocolate milk??
RE: Uglier than Watergate....
fact 1: HandEra 330s were available in all Sam's Clubs and in a some Wal-Marts.
fact 2: there marketing offices are only in Iowa, so don't blame Iowa. their tech offices are in Omaha, NE
By the way i should mention, i am not of your supposed hardcore handera supporters...I prefer Handspring products..i just take offense at how you blame Iowa.
Thank You.
RE: Uglier than Watergate....
Can't belive that !
My advice: before you say 'ugly' think that for some ppl you are ugly too, for some you may be valuable person :)
--
Ne0
RE: Can't belive that !
> you are attacking HandEra device ?
You need to realize that it is just one or two trolls that keep making the same ugly comments over and over again. Note that ugly is about all one could say, as feature-wise this device is right-on for what many on this site would like to see.
RE: Can't belive that !
Let them support curent users with a real OS update to OS4.1, work with developers to get 3rd party software working and then maybe someone will give their PDA's a second look. But as of now I must warn all potential users to buy elsewhere.
RE: Can't belive that !
RE: Can't belive that !
Where is Handspring in all of this?
RE: Where is Handspring in all of this?
RE: Where is Handspring in all of this?
you get high res or QVGA transreflective instead of the lower screen quality of treo90, some even is a full blown multimedia capable device.
RE: Where is Handspring in all of this?
Bluetooth?
RE: Bluetooth?
Mario
msmasitti@qwest.net
Handera
Handera 330 was one of the most innovative units to come out of the Palm platform a year ago.
Guess what? Sony took their ideas: Hi-res and virtual graffiti. Handera came out with it.
Yet another instance of innovation coming from, you guessed it: America.
RE: Handera
RE: Handera
RE: Handera
Liking American company is fine, but you gotta tell them straight that that thing is UGLY. Give them suggestions, feedback on how to improve it.
Consumers shouldnt take being spoon fed.
Otherwise we'll have nothing but broken down old primitive companies.
Being an American company is one thing, its good, but that doesnt give you the right to spit out something as ugly as that, we also have standards here you know.
Prototype?
Handera deserves some credit, please!
As to color device, well, we will see if this will come to production at all.
IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
From the beginning, HandEra said that its main consumer was not the PDA gaming guy (who cares about its color, form, and geek factor mostly), but the business people (who care mostly about useful features, and also compatability with seral computers, price, etc.) Thus, they fortunately make their models not having color of device and form as their first priority. This makes business people happy which IS what HandEra wants.
I don't think people understand HandEra at all. This doesn't mean though, that you shouldn't buy HandEra products if you're not a business person. They're succeeding in what they want to, so they don't HAVE TO have your business anyway. BUT, if you like their products- I do! - its absolutely fine for you to buy them.
Anyway, some of this negative comment comes from not liking the 330c's face color. Well, do you REALLY think that HandEra (a business oriented company) is going to let a businessman go into a meeting with such a colorful and somewhat-unprofessional looking PDA?? I don't think so!:) It must be that Georg ordered or modified his 330c to that blue and white color. It's probably still only a black or maybe dark blue color (normal).
I don't want anyone to get mad here:), it's just that some of you are conused. I think we should praise HandEra for what they HAVE succeeded in! Let’s hope HandEra can find 50,000 people to sell 330c’s to. By the way, I'm not actually Anonymous, my name is Joel Waage.:) Bless you for reading this far!
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
Second they are no longer the anything leader. They are in fact the biggest joke in PDA's homany H330 did they actually sell? As many as Sony sells in one day? They had Sony with a 1 year head start and did squat with it. They are arrogant, they are stupid and they ar no longer important. So who cares if they offer a H330c at this point? Actually they should worry more about what they are going to do now that they are out of the PDA business. Actually they have just look at their websit under "services" they are back to offering their engineering (not design) services in order to pay the bills. I guess they are calling it a night. I just wish the sineless bastards had the guts to call it and not leave thier users hanging. I mean how long are you dip****s gonna wait for OS4.0? or the infamous H330c? I am sure 90% of the posting about Handera is done by 5 guys who have their asses so far up Handeras ass its pathetic.
RE: Uuuugly
Also, although I too am not impressed with the aesthetic design of the prototype, it must be remembered that it is just that: a prototype. It would be silly to make comments judging a private functional prototype as if it were a finalised commercial product.
But then, silliness is far from rare, isn't it?
If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1819-1892)
d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
-Joel Waage
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
My question is... WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!?? Let me guess...are they:
1.the bussiness executive types... no, because they're more image-conscious. It's better to impress the client by pulling out a sleek Sony(name recognition) Clie than a bulky HandEra(who?).
2.the medical professional...no, we have enough bulky things in our coats already. A small thin PDA like the m515 or the Clie will fit into the shirt pocket a whole lot better than the HandEra.
3.the geeky computer tech...yes, because it goes with their numerous other gadgets that they clipped onto their belts. Image? What image...
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
Handera 330.
I don't like the ways some people discussed this new device. But their messages do reflect some of the opinions of
many consumers.
Whether they are right or they belong to the consumer
groups that Handera is trying to sell the devices too
is another matter.
In that sense, the current way to speak out might be
right. People might not speak out their honest opinion
if they need to register.
ted
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
4. pretty much any industry type application where you need inexpensive 802.11b access, mobile bar code and magnetic card scanning, mobile sales, etc. That is where the bulk of HandEra's sales go. Of course, those industries probably aren't going to put up the extra bucks for color when it is not necessary.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
"You can't justified that having an extra slot is worth all that inconvience."
Yes, you can in fact. What other PalmOS PDA can you use in that environment and still be able to use helpful hardware like a laser barcode scanner (meds, and patient ID's, or stock tags), or Wireless ethernet, will still having your data on a second card, and leaving the serial port free for a keyboard? A Palm? A Sony? A HandSpring? No. There's only one other companies that can do that, Symbol (with models having wireless and Barcode built in rather than optional on the 330). No one goes around yapping that the Symbol PDA's are ugly. The point is, you put this type of fuctionality into your current favorite PDA, and it too will take a hit on aesthetics and size.
What other PalmOS PDA can you charge or give continuous power to via a DC port on the side, while it's on a keyboard or connected to a GPS?
What other PalmOS PDA can today use large storage options other than HandEra's other CF PDA, the TrgPro. You might not need 1Gig (others I know do), but how about 500MB, 256MB? Still tough to get in other card forms.
There are PLENTY of things the 330 is still the only PDA to be able to do. Besides the above, where's the true landscape mode on the Sony NR-70? Where's the voice recording? Where's the AAA fallback (alkaline or rechargeable) from L-ion when you're in Timbuktu?
And there will be plenty more such items in their future hardware and software.
With HandEra the "beauty" is in the details, and functionality. If you have other criteria for a PDA, then quietly move along to other PDA's and be joyful that your PDA platform is broad enough to encompass market niches *you* hadn't considered. That's a Strength not a weakness.
It'll make you seem a whole lot more intelligent than the resounding gongs above who're speaking, rather loudly, on things they've revealed that they are completely ignorant of.
how much is it?
(BTW, I think OS4.1 will goes into history soon)
RE: how much is it?
How about you do us a favor and start with 50,000 and we can get this thing out the door ;-)
anything but Sony
RE: anything but Sony
Not everyone can enjoy/understand the good stuff, just choose what suits you.
design vs. functionality
The main subject in most of these comments was 'design'. Interestingly - WHY? HE is not a fancy 'toy', it is not something that you will put in your wallet, it's purpose is not to 'impress'. Anyone of you said something about Palm III form factor 5 years ago? It still works fine, if you are not trying to put it among your business cards;) It is sure that they can improve it, but if this is with the price of functionality - NO, thanks.
And this, IMHO, is what the main discussion should be about - the functionality. Who was the first to introduce Palm PDA with expansion slot /and remember when was that/? Who introduced high-res screen on Palm market? Virtual graffiti? Not talking that even nowadays HE 330 is the only Palm PDA with voice recording and dual-expansion slot. They are keeping the Palm III factor and serial connector, because of the compatibility of the accessories. Anyway, who uses the real advantages of USB? Someone synchronizing his 8 MB device? Though - if they really make USB connection using the serial connector design - this will be admirable.
In brief - HE is serious and professional tool for serious people, and HE company is small /<50 people/, but leading, business-oriented company, that probably believes that 'better quality than quantity'. It's like to compare 'Jaguar' with 'Ford' or 'Toyota'......
Last, but not least important - the HE community is not the place when you will read comments like the above:-P)
Enjoy everybody
SAS
RE: design vs. functionality
I still think all the above sarcastic opinions are valid, even the "Charming" ones.
I use a 330 ("serious user") but I could also get really sarcastic about handera marketing (not design for me, but their marketing...). I would want them to be really successfull, but the appropriate clever action is missing...
Example: In german online-forums, there is hundreds of opinions about palm, and ONE opinion about Handera, which is done by the enthusiastic user who also keeps up the german handera-website.
So I can understand that even handera-loyal users get sarcastic.
In spite of that, I also agree to the "functionality"-argument. I had a stylish sony, and I changed back to Handera, because of the accessories and the 2 slots.
I got gps, palmpix and ... for little dollars from ebay. This is worth more to me personally than design...
What I was astonished about was: One year ago, they mainly got admiration for their pda; now, they mostly get sarcasm. Not to value this, but I think its interessting...
RE: design vs. functionality
And I don't buy the size arguement either. A coworker of mine recently switched from a Palm V to a Toshiba model similar to the new e310 (but half the RAM). That thing is UGLY compared to any Palm, including the Handera. But it does what he wants it to do, so he switched (MS Office compatibility was a big deciding factor). I hear him gripe about not being able to do some things that are simple for PalmOS, but he still has the device, so he must like it...even though it is far more bulky than his old Palm V.
As for looks of the prototype, I think it kind of looks like a Palm 705. Which is OK for me. I just want to play with the new device before making a purchase, as I want to make sure the screen looks right.
RE: design vs. functionality
I'll also be happy if there are more news about their products - mainly application support for the advantages of 240*320 screen. But even now - the majority of the applications work quite well, and definitely do not look worse than on any Palm.
Let's hope that they will deserve admirations again;)
SAS
RE: design vs. functionality
RE: design vs. functionality
Exactly. And when i hear people argue about Mac vs. Windows i just want to scream: Amiga was literally years ahead. Anybody out there edit video with yr PC or Mac in 1987? No? The first true multi-media computer.
RE: design vs. functionality
Remember the Toaster? And Commodore blew it too. That's what happens when you have a company full of engineers and no sales/marketing team.
What is needed is dealers to industrial clients
50.000 prepaid units are obviously needed for Handera to start production. These are not coming from private customers most likely, but only from industrial users.
Why? The example of the German Handera Dealer says it all: His customers save loads of money by getting the
Handera instead of PPC or PC-Notebooks.
In contrast, for the given price, all Palm-Fans here would start discussing, that they get a higher resolution with Sony, a smaller Case with Palm, and so on... And for them, thats even a valid argument.
Result (IMHO): - Private users can't be the key-market for a color Handera
- The realisation of this Color-Handera doesn't depend on what we (private) consumers think of it at all! So all these discussions are interesting, but they won't change a thing anyway...
Solution: Dealers with industrial clients should think about what the Handera can do for them and then join the German Handera-Dealer for a preorder-List.
Otherwise all private Handera-Fans won't see the device.
Handera & SONY
If only SONY had I/O options to rival Handera's CF slot.
SONY doesn't even have a full size keyboard option on their T600 or NR70 units.
If only Handera's design and form factor were more seemly.
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Handera & SONY
RE: Handera & SONY
RE: Handera & SONY
You cannot be serious ! SONY CLIE's color hi-res(+)screen is the BEST of the best ! tReO ? trEO 90 ?!! 12-bit washed-out low-res screen ??! Even Gameboy an do better than that.
RE: Handera & SONY
RE: Handera & SONY
In 80% of applications, the minimized graffiti area on the Handera went unused. Sony's method is more stable, and has seen FAR more support from the developer community. Many of the major applications now support Hi-Res+.
"If only SONY had I/O options to rival Handera's CF slot."
Sony does (at least the NR series does): http://www.xigma.jp/02/clie_NR70_CF/img/2_big_w.jpg
"SONY doesn't even have a full size keyboard option on their T600 or NR70 units."
Yes, this is a problem.
"If only Handera's design and form factor were more seemly."
Agreed. If they're going to insist on a built-in CF slot, howevre, the mcahine will always be brick. That's the downfall of the larger CF format. You'll never get a T-series or m5xx form factor with a slot like that (thank goodness for Memory Stick and SD).
RE: Handera & SONY
Thanks for the SONY CF jacket website. More information on whether and how this expansion option could be used on US or European models of the NR70 would be greatly appreciated. Earlier reports seemed to indicate that this might not be possible. In comparison to the Handera 330, I would be looking primarily for both a POTS modem and a wireless modem.
In terms of optimal use of the soft grafitti, I admire how Handera came out with their model and included QuickOffice software that supported their hi-res soft grafitti. Particularly impressive was QuickSheet's support of spreadsheets in landscape mode. Iambic's TinySheet moved quickly to support the SONY version of hi-res+, but they still don't do landscape mode. I hope SONY takes the initiative more in the future.
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Handera & SONY
http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen45a/treo90.html
CNet: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q2AC52701
-Joel Waage
RE: Handera & SONY
?? Ya, but virtually 100% of High-Res ones used it. The same will be the case for Sony HR+ apps. And yet, what percentage of apps out there currently use this already on a Sony? Let's just start with the built in apps. How many of the built in apps make full use of the high-resolution *and* virtual graffiti, vs. all of them on a HandEra?
"Sony's method is more stable, and has seen FAR more support from the developer community. Many of the major applications now support Hi-Res+"
Cite?
Sony does (at least the NR series does): http://www.xigma.jp/02/clie_NR70_CF/img/2_big_w.jpg
That's a picture of hardware. To validate, provide a link of devices that have driver support. Every I/O accessory on HandEra's site has driver support (and when it comes to ethernet and WiFi many more non-listed cards will function under their generic drivers).
"(thank goodness for Memory Stick and SD)."
Now if you only had two slots, and an equal number of i/O expansion options (with PalmOS drivers).
RE: Handera & SONY
Not necessarily. If the guts could be miniaturized a little, the SD slot could be moved to the side, since with CF onboard, you wouldn't need it for I/O functions. This would make a thinner unit possible because the slots wouldn't have to be "stacked" on top of each other.
If it must be brick, the N760C form factor is still a good shape that fits nicely in the hand, and is thick enough to "stack" the slots one above the other, if you move the IR port over a little bit.
Just my $0.02 =)
Sean
Coming clean about my 330
Eventually it got old, so I thought I'd treat myself and I bought an m130: cheap and color, with expansion.
Then I had my revelation... My eyes were opened.
I had no idea all that time of how unstable and lackluster the 330's support for expansion cards is. The m130 was like a bolt of lightning while accessing the card compared to the 330. Also alot of people don't realize that the 330 doesn't have a system like the Palms where you insert the card and a new category pops up. You have to use AutoCF or Autocard to access them, meaning you have to know how. This was resolvable with Megalauncher (or Launcher or whatever), but I didn't know how much work I was putting into using the expansion.
The 330 was also unstable. The voice recorder often froze, requiring soft resets. You couldn't beam anything from off of the card without a 3rd party launcher. And hack slowed down its speed drastically.
I loved it for the time I had it, but I was ignorant. I have now bumped myself up to the 515 and I am in love. It's much smoother than the 330, in looks and function.
I just wanted the 330 owners out there to know that there are smoother expansion options out there. You may not know what your missing.
...In accordance with the prophecy...
Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com
RE: Coming clean about my 330
Sounds like you never upgraded the OS from the first version that came with it.
RE: Coming clean about my 330
RE: Coming clean about my 330
Is it too much to ask for a device with as much functionality as the Handera 330 with a quicker card reader and processor that doesn't look like a cellular phone of 1986???
BTW- Is it really necessary for SD and CF slots if it can't support SDIO???
One more thing- Make the thing a little more pleasing to the eye!!! I understand that the people who buy this device are looking for functionality, but MY GOD!!! It's like going into a business meeting with shorts with a Hawaiian shirt and some shiny Iversons! They better make this thing come with detachable faceplates like the m100 series!
Bosco
RE: Coming clean about my 330
Why are the idiots at Handera not working with developers to write programs that use the capabilities of the hardware? 240x320 screen, dual expansion slots, the recorder. Come on if they don't give a **** about their machine and users why should anyone else?
RE: Coming clean about my 330
I have wanted a 515 on occasion, but NOT for the card access, which I found to be significantly SLOWER than the 330's.
No, the appeal of the 515 for me would lie in form factor and the colour screen. But, I am not really willing at this point to accept the tradeoffs- diminished battery life, weaker speakers, lack of virtual grafitti area, no voice recorder, etc., etc.
Right now, we can't get it all, and Handera has been best-of-breed for many.
It would be wonderful if certain posters could simply accept that in a courteous manner, even if their own perspectives differ...
RE: Coming clean about my 330
Yeah, it's too bad HandEra hasn't released 4.1 for the 330 yet, but otherwise the orginal poster's rant is a lot about nothing.
RE: Coming clean about my 330
How else am I going to use 802.11b and a memory card at the same time?
RE: Coming clean about my 330
Why are the idiots at Handera not working with developers to write programs that use the capabilities of the hardware? 240x320 screen, dual expansion slots, the recorder. Come on if they don't give a **** about their machine and users why should anyone else?"
Come out from under your rock and see each and every point addressed. Current OS, has full VFS support, including launch on card insertion (start.prc). Most of the major apps have QVGA support. The only thing it doesn't have is the OS4 VFS aware launcher. So what. Like that's a bad thing. Who but you and Palm thinks it's a great idea to have 15 categories for RAM based apps, and one for all the CardBased apps. Regardless wether you're using a Palm OS4 device, or a HandEra 330, if you're a big VFS user, you're using a 3rd party VFS launcher anyway, like Launcher III.
Cutting edge handheld... of a few years ago
been released several years ago. The screen looks fairly washed out and the form factor is huge
compared to more "modern" PDA's. It's a shame Handera is having a hard time keeping up with
other handheld companies, competition is a good thing.
RE: Cutting edge handheld... of a few years ago
Handera still suits me fine
I just thought I would say that I take a close look at every PDA that comes out and have yet to find something better _for me_ than my Handera 330.
The two slots rocks. Good on them for going with CF a few years ago with the TRGPro and then adding the SD slot. These guys were ahead of their time and as far as I am concerned still are.
Has anyone noticed the updated and redesigned 'Expansion Options' page on their web site. Pretty slick. Not sure when they changed it. I was there today looking at WiFi cards.
http://www.handera.com/solutions/acc_expand.asp
I am in Japan and we have a few CF PHS (Personal HandyPhone systems) cards that work beautifully. I leave the DoCoMo 64k Comp@ct P-in card in most of the time. Occasionally I pull my DDI Pocket card out of my ThinkPad and connect at 32k, but flat-rate. The Symbol or Socket WiFi card is next.
I couldn't imagine pulling out these cards everytime I wanted to back up. I just leave a 64MB SD card in and back up often. In my opinion, backing up is the killer app.
Oh, speaking of which, those 256 & 512MB Panasonic cards are now very easy to find here. I have an SD camera (Minolta DimageX) and MP3 Player (IO-Data ExRouge) and I have read that the bigger cards work, so I expect them to work in my Handera. I'll find out soon enough.
Let's all admit that one size doesn't fit all and nothing positive can come from most of the negativity.
But yeah, the thing in those photos doesn't look so hot, but I could get used to that, the color and additional memory if it were to come out before I have found something better.
Handera and the CF slot
Where is a resonse from Handera?
Re: Where is a response from Handera?
RE: Where is a resonse from Handera?
RE: Where is a resonse from Handera?
Oh, poor poor poor baby, don't cry...
I know you are sad and envious (Palm/Handspring/Handera employee ?) But the world needs the best, not the worst, so there is nothing we can help you. Have a good day.
''Read it on our website...''
anything new would be on their website...
Really, what else should they say...? ;-)
Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
What that leaves is that it is a matter of money. Think about it: Palm/PalmSource is an unprofitable company. Thus, the licensing terms for OS 4.x are likely to be very front-loaded (a big chunk of money up front, and a smaller per-unit charge). It's very unlikely that it is licensed completely on a per-unit basis.
Given that the OS 4.x upgrade is not particularly compelling for most users, they aren't going to sell a lot of copies. Sure, I'd buy it. And the very vocal minority of power-users would too. But the average corporate IS department or industrial user is NOT going to get the upgrade. That means they couldn't sell enough upgrades to recoup the cost of the OS license -- and raising the price would only lower the # of upgrades they would sell.
HandEra's problem is not an inability to innovate or a desire to rest on their laurels. It's an unwillingness to hemmorage money for the sake of cool factor. And I, for one, think that's a good thing.
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
Too many flamers and trollers on this site
It's full of little boys who are just learning how "neat" it is that they can spew out verbal garbage all day without getting caught by Mama and papa.
What a bunch of losers.
Too all the little trollers with the little peckers: Kiss my butt!
Handera Rocks!!
RE: Too many flamers and trollers on this site
Anyway. I am anything but a troll or flamer but the system Ed has working for us now is just fine. I would think twice about posting if I had to log in simply because I, and Im sure many others are too lazy to do it. Some of the best posts on here have been from Anonymous fellows, and if it bothers you so much, why not just ignore the flame wars from geeks for obviously have no lives.
morons
RE: morons
To Answer the OS 4.1 Question....
So, PEOPLE - Read and understand - Its NOT PHYSICALLY possible!
That's why the new "HE330c" will have a 4MB ROM instead. The 16 MB RAM is going to be a nice option too!
And to quickly address why the HE330 is such a great "useful" Palm OS PDA is because:
* Built-in Voice recorder
* Real Speaker with Amplified output
* CF Type II slot (IBM Microdrive compatible)
* SD/MMC slot (use for apps/ backups while using CF slot!)
* Old Palm III serial interface for backward compatibility with MANY existing products on the market, including businesses (and hospitals) that are still using Windows NT 4.0 that doesn't support USB
* Virtual Graffiti (of course)
* LED for both charging notification and missed appointments - it will continue to blink until you acknowledge it - a truly nice feature - too bad Sony doesn't do this...
* LiION Battery option with side charger (so you can use serial interface for whatever (keyboard, GPS, etc.) and not worry about running out of power. Plus, normal battery option if you don't have a place to recharge.
* Jog dial w/back-out button / Voice record. Voice files are saved as .WAV files. PLUS ability to save directly to either CF or SD/MMC card!
One item I wish the HE330 had and that would be a vibrate feature option for the alarm. It would be nice if this were an option, along with
Sony has nice color screens and high resolution, but no recording feature - this would have made it a close alternative replacement for this HE user, and if I could "BUY" a CF sled for the Sony models here in the STATES (USA), but you can't....
All in all, if this new prototype is HandEra’s NEW 330c - it should be pretty good. Epson mentioned at Palm Source that they were supplying the video graphics chip for Palm and HandEra, so the speed should be pretty good - considering Epson also supplies that same graphics chip for Sony.
Plus, if the new HE330c device has OS 4.1, then it will be Bluetooth compatible - so we will be able to use Symbol's CF Bluetooth card - something I've been wanting for a while now (have a Sony-Ericsson T68i I've been wanting to take full advantage of)
Like many have posted here before - there is really only one PDA that fits into that "perfect" category, and that is the PDA that WORKS for YOU - if it doesn't work for you then its not the perfect PDA for you - and leave it at that - lets not bash things just because it doesn't look the way WE think it should - that's fine - that's how you feel, but other's may and probably don't. Its just like the old saying goes:
"One person's trash is another person's treasure."
- PalmZealot
RE: To Answer the OS 4.1 Question....
Bzzzt. You're propagating a myth that has been beaten to death. OS4.1 is not a single package. There are optional pieces. It's why you can buy OS4 upgrades for 2MB flash devices that only shipped with OS3.5 HandEra has stated that the 2MB ROM is not an issue for them on the 330 for OS4.1, or they wouldn't have said that an update would be made available at some point.
There are a select few outside of HandEra with first hand knowledge that this is so. Other than the leak that started this whole thread. HandEra NDA's seem to have been quite effective, and thus myths like the one you're furthering are a little harder to stamp out.
Learning to Juggle...
He worked and worked on it - It took almost a month. But he could juggle four tennis balls.
And the first thing said to him after he showed somebody was 'But... Can you do five?'
That took him almost four months.
And the first person he showed off to said 'Can you do six?'
TRG starts off by making 8mb memory expansions...
And makes 8MB expansions with 4MB Flash RAM.
(But can you...)
Then makes the TRG Pro
(A Palm-OS PDA that read like a laundry list of fixes for the Palm III - Including that godawful loud alarm!)
(But can you...)
Then makes a PDA that has not one, but TWO media slots! And collable graffiti.
(But can you...)
And now they've made one that's got twice as much RAM, and is color to boot - and the only thing people can find to gripe about with it is the case color???
They must be close to perfect, then.
I /am/ the eggman.
This will never be mass produced.
If I was going to put $5 down on it, here's what I'd say was going to happen:
They'll bide their time, wait untill PalmSource and Palm have got a shipping model that uses ARM processors. THEN they'll finalize their work to make sure that it's compatable, and THEN release it.
And everybody except the Sony Trollz will be standing around agog, just like the last two times.
Oh and the development time for the 330c wasen't lost - I'm willing to bet they billed Symbol for at least part of it. :)
I /am/ the eggman.
Why so much loose and ill talk--not required, simply.
I work in a hospital. It's kinda serious, so i've been told. I like the HE330. Plenty of room, large screen, sizeable fonts (small when I'm reading on my own but large for a verbal presentation), truly GOOD backlight (even tho its heavy on the juice a bit), voice notes for when my boss doen't give me the time to write, backup and reinstall (shld the need arise, knock on wood) which is VERY quick (16 secs to backup), illuminated virtual graffitti area which is essential cos the other doctors like to show LCD projector stuff in dark rooms and the rest of us are supposed to have photographic memories, and some more.
I don't mind that it does not look like a Palm V, I find it more functional. I don't know if I would splurge for colour cos I don't like to have to watch the batt meter. I think the Palm 515 doesn't even last 48 hours with the beam receive left on. (that's 2 days & not 48 hrs of continuous use).
If u do make a device in colour, make sure that the batts last a whole lot longer cos I actually work with my "palm" and don't spend time looking at porn pix! Colour is nice, but it shouldn't be a compromise like it is with the Palm 505s etc.
I don't care what it looks like on the outside so long as it does not look like a toy. And it should fit into my trouser pocket; IIIx factor is not bad.
Oh and by the way, did you know that the OS 4.x extensions which allow for external memory card access like on the Palm 505 etc are SLOWER than memory card access on the 330? I bought an SD card but much to my chagrin, found out that this new factor only has a 4 Bit bus. MMC cards even have a much worse 1 Bit bus. CF has a 16 Bit bus and is much faster. I have Harrison's and a load of iSilo books, some with pictures, on my Hi-Res handera and it does the job without a struggle. Quick, painless, and I don't look dumb waiting for something on the memory card to load in front of my patients. nuff said.
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Huh, bulky?