Comments on: Sony Announces SL10 with Hi-Res Mono Screen

After having some info on it leaked on Friday, Sony officially announced the PEG-SL10 today. This is a low-end handheld, costing just $150. It has a 320 by 320 monochrome screen, which is an improvement on Sony's current low-end model, the S360, which has only a 160 by 160 monochrome one. It has other features typically on Sony's handhelds, like a Jog Dial with Back button and a Memory Stick slot for extra storage. It will be available sometime next month.

Read the Full Article Text Here

Article Comments

(235 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

ROM / RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:30:11 AM #

Interesting to note that the Sony Style Web page says 8mb of RAM (7mb available). Could the OS be in RAM to cut costs?

RE: ROM / RAM

Ed @ 7/22/2002 10:33:02 AM #

No. The SL10 has 4 MB of flash ROM.

---
News Editor

RE: ROM / RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:41:21 AM #

OS in RAM?!?! Nice idea... So if you let your SL10's batteries die you lose your OS?

Think before posting nextime maybe...

RE: ROM / RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:47:52 AM #

Sony Clies use 1MB for stack space for better stability.

RE: ROM / RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:48:16 AM #

Why the antagonism? It's possible that they've moved some of the built-in apps to RAM. Handspring does this on their Treo 90: after a hard-reset, it decompresses a number of the built-in applications from ROM into RAM, leaving 14.9M of 15.7M free.

OS in RAM?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:12:59 AM #

>OS in RAM?!?! Nice idea...
> Think before posting nextime maybe...

I guess you've never heard of Franklin's Ebookman?

Yeah - OS Dynamically loaded in RAM. And it's as (un)popular as you'd think. Particularly when they had that spate of bad capacitors that dropped the memory every time the battery lost contact, combined with the weak battery springs that would cause the battery to disconnect momentarily from a light thump.

It's a stupid idea, granted, but that dosen't make it IMPOSSIBLE.

RE: ROM / RAM

hotpaw4 @ 7/22/2002 1:49:32 PM #

Clies use 1 MB not for stack space, but for the 4x larger frame buffers that games (and other graphics applications) require when customized for a 320x320 display.

RE: ROM / RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:18:10 PM #

> Could the OS be in RAM to cut costs?
Ha ha ha! Thanks for making my morning with this ridiculous idea. ;)

> Ebookman? Treo 90?
These still have compressed OS in ROM... Not the same thing. ;) Is that what you meant?

I can see it now. "Sony recommends that you keep fresh AAA batteries in the device at all times. Replacing the OS in RAM in the case of flat batteries is considered an out of warranty repair."

Wait! Microsoft would probably want to get in on this one too... Windows XP - RAM edition! "Minimum requirements: 2GB RAM. If you power down for any reason, please reinsert the recovery CD to compeltely reinstall Windows XP-RAM edition. You might lose some files. Microsoft strongly recommends that you never power down. Ever."

RE: ROM / RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:40:47 PM #

> Ebookman? Treo 90?
> These still have compressed OS in ROM... Not the same thing. ;)

The EBookman (at least in the early versions, I haven't kept up with the later iterations) actually stored the whole OS in RAM - You had to download the OS image directly into the machine from Franklin via their conduit. If you lost power or hard-reset it, the only thing it would do is sit and tell you to connect it to a computer.

They may have changed this later (In fact they probably have - I see the occasional working (Inasfar as you can call the Ebookman 'Working') model at stores. You may remember that earlier models were almost never actually running at stores?)

I believe that their centrally-controlled OS revision system was supposed to be a selling point - at least from the view of content providers - The ability to patch DRM holes as quickly as they were discovered would hopefully keep content secure. But, of course, Microsoft deciding to pull out on their promises of implementing Pocket Reader for the platform has all but doomed them.

It's a shame in a way - It's pretty nice hardware. Too bad the OS/DRM stuffis so buggered up. The marketing could probably use a lot of help as well - The top model last I checked was the EBookman 911 - Hardly an auspicious model number.

Up/Down Rocker Buttons

costein @ 7/22/2002 10:32:29 AM #

I see that Sony still loves to provide new variations on the up/down button. :-)
How functional will this one prove on a daily basis...?

costein

RE: Up/Down Rocker Buttons

Lock @ 7/22/2002 12:19:48 PM #

Well, at least finally they built "human buttons", big enough to be used with big fingers and pen... :]
I even like the shape, too bad for the b&w display (well, afterall it's a low-end model)... ;]

ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:36:20 AM #

Ummm, is it just me or is this unit not exactly the prettiest thing on earth?

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:37:10 AM #

Ahhh, the art critics once again. Who cares how good it works? Appearance is all that matters.

RE: ugly?

BiffK @ 7/22/2002 10:37:34 AM #

I don't mind it... I'd have to see one in person before I could say for sure... 8 MB though... that sucks!

-Biff K

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:40:21 AM #

is it just me or is this handheld $150 dollars ?? what kind of design do you expect .. ~~ and the size is just really small ... it's not the thinnest palm ever, but probably the smallest palm ever.

RE: Matter of opinion

Foo Fighter @ 7/22/2002 10:40:29 AM #

Some might find it unattractive, but that is purely a matter of personal taste. I think it looks very cool. Though I wouldn't buy it (can't go back to grayscale). This will make a wonderful PDA for new users, although I would have liked to see SONY add a few tantalizing new features to the low-end market (such as MP3 playback). Still, it's a winner. :-)

Now...when is SONY going to bring out the big guns?

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:47:34 AM #

I think it looks rather cool too, but the grey scale screen is the only reason holding me back from getting one. But it runs on 2 AAA battery, probably no a good idea to use it with color screen.

Anyway it's a good surprise, I was expecting something big and fat ...

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:49:31 AM #

Please people, tell me which $150 PDA looks better? Can't do it can you?

I think this is a great value considering what else you can get for your $150.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:53:52 AM #

$150 for a hires screen? Damm good deal to me.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:43:25 AM #

It seems like GREAT value. Just compare with a Palm M500: At twice the price, it's larger and heavier, it's got the same 8 Mbytes of RAM, has no jog dial, and the screen has 1/4th the resolution; it is a bit slimmer, though, and has got rechargeable batteries built-in (which is not a big point if the AAA's in the SL10 last as long as Sony say).

I'd say Sony's *cheapest* PDA seems as powerful as Palm's second best ... Palm should better offer something competitive soon.

UGLY!!!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:23:24 PM #

OH MAN. this is Sony?! AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
this thing is ugly.....
did a member of the handera team move to sony or what cause i'm surprised sony actually stamped the clie name on this.... sony should have released a new line and called it, UGLIE....

just playing. but honestly. i was expecting something more on the eye candy side from sony... with that said, it IS nice to see that sony is not abandoning the lower end market, it must have taken a lot of ballz, or a really dumb upper level manager, to kick out another hi res grayscale model after that whole T415 debacle. lets see how well this model fairs... i'm personally not too worried about 8mb or ram. it IS for the lower end market and those who do go for this model probably wont be too up in anything other than the basics. Dont like the batteries though. bad personal memories from the m105 i guess....

3.6 oz without batteries. good stuff.

jog dial! unlike those handspring guys who left it out in their treo 90.....

up down buttons! ha... those sony guys.... not sure how well these will work... but it looks better than the ones on the T. actually, i dun get it. the buttons for the S and N are so well designed.... then all the sudden the T was like... blah.

on a side note. i currently have a n610. is sony going to release a 0S 5 model anytime soon cause this puppy needs to upgrade. actually, does OS5 have anything for this puppy the T665 doesnt?! i'm thinking no... any ideas people? i heard from some people that an OS5 model will be a ways off: announced in japan, sold in japan, then announced in the US, then finally sold in the US. whole thing will take around three months. but i'm thinking, the SL 10 came from almost no where- skiped the japanese cycle as a whole... so could a OS5 model be on the way....?

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:36:12 PM #

Can you EVEN compare this to an m1xx series???? not even a Vx or an m500 can compare to the beauty of this thing.

PLUS they finally fixed the damn up/down buttons.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:40:48 PM #

It's not ugly, just...funny-looking. I'd still buy, carry, and use one.

I am one of the few people, ever to find the m1xx series kind of cute. And the Palm Vx is just wonderful, IMHO. A more accurate statement is that the m1xx and the Palm VX couldn't possibly compare to the VALUE and BENEFITS, considering the cost, of this thing.

--JM

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:42:24 PM #

I must agree, they don't get much uglier (HE/TRG maybe).

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:44:21 PM #

C´mon! Have you ever saw a Sony handheld that you can really say has a good design in terms of aestetics, not from a technical point of view? And yes, I do think that´s important too.
Maybe we should wait until Apple releases it´s PDA -probably never- to see a nicely designed one. Until then, I´ll stay with the original Palm V

RE: ugly?

useybird @ 7/22/2002 12:53:25 PM #

The Palm M500 has 1/2 the resolution of the sl10 not 1/4 as you put because 320x320 is double the 160x160 of Palm's M500

--(Josh)-- Support the USA in the war against terrorism.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:01:30 PM #

You did good in math in highschool, didn't you?

160x160 is 160pixels wide and 160 pixels tall - think back to the calculation table - 12x12 = 144

160x160 = 160 x 160 = 25,600
320x320 = 160x2 x 160x2 = 102,400

Anyway, each pixel in a 160x160 becomes four pixels (a 2x2 block) in direct translation - four times the resolution... 2 times the resolution in any given direction, but this isn't print media this is screen real estate.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:02:50 PM #

Dust off your math: It DOES have 4 times the resolution.

320x160 WOULD be twice the resolution.

RE: ugly?

nXt @ 7/22/2002 1:06:14 PM #

Wrong, the m505 is 1/4 the resolution of high res.

m505 = 160x160
hires = 320x320, yes it's DOUBLE the number, BUT it's a SQUARE so it's actually 4 times more.
You can fit FOUR 160x160 boxes into ONE 320x320 box. like this:

this is 1x1:
_
|_|

This is 2x2:
_ _
|_|_|
|_|_|

Notice 1x1, and 2x2 in numbers it's 2 times.. BUT there are four 1x1 squares in a 2x2 :) get it?

160x160 = 1/4th the size of 320x320.

nXt's Clie Club
Place To Be For Sony Clie Discussion
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nxtclieclub

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:06:57 PM #

Didn't you take basic highschool math, useybird? 160 pixels x 2 is 320, but 160 pixels squared x 2 increases by a factor of 4. A Sony hi-res screen is 4 times the resolution of a Palm/Handspring screen.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:21:32 PM #

Whoever waits for a Apple PDA, I am sorry to tell you that Steve said that PDA is going aways soon, Phones will replace them in the near future, so there will be no PDA from Apple ever.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:13:13 PM #

I dunno about the word 'soon', but the point Jobs is making about the direction the market will take is *right on*.

Their will be phones out within 12 months that do everything a Palm can, and more.

It's up to Palm Source to get their OS in as many products as possible.

Symbian is so far ahead of Apple, Palm, and even Microsoft in this area that it's scary.

It doesn't matter that you don't see many devices in your local store that carry Symbian.

The point is that in 3 months from, YOU COULD. Not so with the other companies.

My personal preference would be to have Blue Tooth enabled tablets in the workplace, with your phone/pda acting only as a briefcase, from which you'll beam your work to your home computer if need be.

There is simply NO NEED for most Americans to edit Excel and Word files on a PDA. But that's not just me talking.....the marketplace has made this clear. And so have enterprises.

For the few Nazis that DO engage in this behavior.....it'll be easier to do on a tablet. Or better yet, continue being a part of the 10% (and shrinking) of PDA buyers who use PocketPC.

Still, that said, I don't see PDAs ever FULLY going away.....sort of like wrestling.

I don't see convergeance units having a huge stake in the marketplace for another year and a half, and I don't see them dominating the market for another 3.....but I'm no expert.

I do know one thing.....that IS the direction the market is heading.

People only want enhanced organizers....snicker all you want.....it's a fact.

RE: ugly?

Davy Fields @ 7/22/2002 2:35:56 PM #

Ah, I love the internet. We can get four math explanartions in the space of 5 minutes, all with that wonderful brand of e-criticism.

-Davy Fields
www.davyfields.com

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:34:33 PM #

Couldn't help but jump into the math fray. =)

You are talking about two seperate concepts here
resolution
and
screensize

Resolution refers:
x by y

so if you say twice the resolution it would be:
(x * 2) by (y * 2)

screen size refers to the cumulative amount of pixels.
So the product of x by y will be 1/4 the product of (x * 2) by (y * 2)

So the resolution it twice that of a palm,
but the screen size is 4 times larger.

Confused yet?

-J-

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:16:59 PM #

It's TWICE of nothing.

Try to explain to me in what way a 32x32 room is only twice as big as a 16x16 room. It isn't is it? You cna fit 4 times as many thing into a 32x32 room than you can with a 16x16.

This thing is a bargain

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:51:28 PM #

I think it's absolutley disgusting. $150 for this it doesn't have os 5 gps or blue tooth. Yeah right. Every one slating this item for it's lack of features, STOP! For some one on a tight budget this is brilliant. If you want MORE features you need to spend MORE money.

RE: screen size

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:26:00 PM #

Just to get this straighten out:

When talking about desktop monitors, examples of "screen size" are "17 inch LCD", "15 inch CRT" right?

Resolutions like "1024x768", "800x600" right?

So for PDA, a "320x320" resolutions are 4 times of "160x160". For screen size, Palm & Sony Clie (except NR) are similar -- "about 2x2 sqaure inches", right?

Resolutions & Screen size are totally two different things.

RE: ugly?

hotpaw4 @ 7/22/2002 7:06:58 PM #

Resolution is usually measured in units such as dots per inch, or lines per millimeter (linear). If a 320x320 display has twice the diagonal measurement of a 160x160 display, then the resolution (in DPI) of the two displays will be exactly the same, even though the 320x320 display has a 4 times larger area. Since the diagonal of the S360 and the SL10 are both given as 3" on the Sonystyle web site, the linear measure of a side is sqrt(3), or about 1.73 inches. So the resolution of the SL10 is about 184 DPI, and the resolution of the S360 is about 92 DPI.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 9:28:39 PM #

I'd like to know how or why "foo fighter" would like to see Sony put mp3 playback in a LOW-END model. $150 w/mp3 is currently a pipe dream. But then, judging from the majority of foo fighter's posts on this site and others, he may well be smoking some strange type of pipe.

RE: ugly?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 2:25:24 AM #

"resolution" means "the power to resolve", how well an image can be represented. So, with 4 times as many dots in the same space, you've got 4 times the resolution. Doubling the dot density in one direction and leaving the other direction would double the resolution. Doubling the dot density in both directions _quadruples_ resolution.

USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 10:53:33 AM #

As this Sony Clie has a mini USB on it, wy can't palm devices all use USB to do hotsync instead of using the old serial interface? this way everyone will have a unified interface for connecting perpherials.

RE: USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:00:26 AM #

"As this Sony Clie has a mini USB on it, wy can't palm devices all use USB to do hotsync instead of using the old serial interface?"

Ummm...Maybe because not all PC's have USB? There are still a couple of us still content with our i386's using Win95.

RE: USB sync

mikeliu @ 7/22/2002 11:08:05 AM #

Heh funny for those of you running Win95 on your i386's that your PDA has a good shot at having more computing power than your PC.....

RE: USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:11:49 AM #

I agree with the first poster. Why can't we have standard already? As for not working with 10+ year old i386 PCs - sorry guy - but it would be a small price to pay.

RE: USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:13:22 AM #

there's a pretty big chance that your PDA is more expensive than your computer, you might want to buy a new computer before buying the PDA,

RE: USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:57:41 AM #

I have a PalmIIIxe (clearance @ Staples for $50) can I upgrade to a USB hotsync it would be so much easier

RE: USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:00:06 PM #

Well, i have sold second hand pc sets (including the monitors P3-466 Mhz, etc) at prices that are LOWER than brand new pdas :)

RE: USB sync

martopiggus @ 7/22/2002 9:59:15 PM #

I think it's the WinNT installed base that counts, not Win95.

RE: USB sync

Altema @ 7/22/2002 10:39:03 PM #

"wy can't palm devices all use USB to do hotsync"

I assume you mean all Palm OS devices, since Palm branded handhelds (except the M100 and the M105) already have both USB and serial hotsync capability.

RE: USB sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:22:16 PM #

when I say USB sync, I mean directly use a USB cable like this one, not some USB / Palm Serial interface converter

RE: USB sync

Altema @ 7/23/2002 11:07:49 AM #

Ahh, I see. I did not think about it that much since the default hotsync method is USB, and folks have to buy a serial cradle or cable to use the old serial interface on the Palms.

RE: USB sync

legohead @ 4/14/2003 3:41:11 PM #

Does anybody know if the side mini-b USB jack on the Clie SL10 can be used along with a "sync AND charge" cable attached to a "USB to AC" adapter in order to use AC power?

I am planning on buying a wireless keyboard that has a stand for the Clie, but the Clie would probably be off balance if i had a plug sticking out of the Clie's bottom. So I'd like to use the side jack. I want AC power so I can write papers at college on my PDA without wasting the batteries.

USB-AC adapter: http://makeashorterlink.com/?M17832534
USB cable: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P21542534
Keyboard: http://makeashorterlink.com/?O16625534

Device ships with mini USB sync cable

bcombee @ 7/22/2002 10:54:43 AM #

If you go to the Sony Style site and look through the images, the last one (seen at www.sonystyle.com/images/250x250/shots/sl10_5.jpg) shows the SL10 with its sync cable plugged into the side mini-USB jack, rather than into the T-series connector on the bottom.

This cable is very similar to the one that ships with the Network Walkman memory stick music player and with some Sony digital cameras, so it may be that they added this jack to reduce costs, since they were already producing lots of cables like this. This also seems to indicate that its unlikely that you'll be able to use this connection to talk to other peripherals, since this makes the SL10 have USB slave status.

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

digilaw @ 7/22/2002 11:38:53 AM #

It is also similar to the cable that comes with the clie modem for the N760.

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

useybird @ 7/22/2002 12:58:05 PM #

If you look at the battery icon on the top it has the little lightning bolt sign which means it can probably take Rechargeable AAA's and charge it through USB

--()-- Support the USA in the war against terrorism.

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:06:26 PM #

Don't bank on it - you can't charge just any old battery at any old rating, you need to charge a battery with the voltage and current it's expecting... you can skimp on the current and just let it take forever to charge, but that makes it feature-poor... if you overcharge the battery you're damaging the device, which you claimed could charge that way, and you get to be liable.

That's why many devices have their own battery form factors - even if the internals are all the same stuff, it's just better business sense to not chance it. Even the handera (excellent company imo) doesn't let you charge normal rechargable batteries when they're put in, for just such reasons - they just don't know what the battery actually needs / what its safe tolerances are.

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

bcombee @ 7/22/2002 3:06:42 PM #

The new USB cable also looks just like the USB cable shipped in the T-series USB HotSync cable set, sans adapter. That little adapter apparently just converts from the mini-USB cable to the USB pins on the T-series connector. I would expect that the mini jack on the SL10 and the T-connector are wired together and handled internally by the same hardware.

http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?itemid=20384

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 6:04:15 PM #

...and the cable appears to have the same mini USB connector as used on the Sony DSC-F707 camera.

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 6:12:57 PM #

it's the same as the one on my netMD walkman, they call it the Mini-B or Mini-D ... forgot :P

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:54:17 AM #

You and several others seem to be under the mistaken assumption that there's a T-series connector on the bottom of the S-10. There is not.
The mini USB is all you get on this economy PDA.
re:
vshows the SL10 with its sync cable plugged into the side mini-USB jack, rather than into the T-series connector on the bottom.

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 8:55:01 AM #

Yes there is a T-series port ...

"It also has the same HotSync port as on the T series. This means that all of Sony's handhelds will have the same connector for the first time since Sony introduced the T415 late last year. "

read the article, it tells you stuff you didn't know

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

Ed @ 7/24/2002 9:00:26 AM #

> You and several others seem to be under the mistaken assumption
> that there's a T-series connector on the bottom of the S-10. There is not.

You are incorrect. There is a T-series HotSync port on the bottom. This info comes straight from Sony.

If you don't believe that, take a look at the list of accessories for the SL10 on SonyStyle, like the PEGA-KB20, a mini-keyboard that plugs into the T-series HotSync port. In fact. the SL10 and the T-series can both use almost all the same accessories because they share the same port.

For whatever reasons, Sony put two ports on this model, the T-series one and the USB one.

---
News Editor

RE: Device ships with mini USB sync cable

legohead @ 4/14/2003 3:43:06 PM #

Does anybody know if the side mini-b USB jack on the Clie SL10 can be used along with a "sync AND charge" cable attached to a "USB to AC" adapter in order to use AC power?

USB-AC adapter: http://makeashorterlink.com/?M17832534
USB cable: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P21542534
Keyboard: http://makeashorterlink.com/?O16625534

Extra power option?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:05:03 AM #

>AC Power Adapter (supplied)
>Output: DC5.7V
>Input: AC100-240V

So, the SL-10 can run off AC power like the HE330?

RE: Extra power option?

rsuplido @ 7/22/2002 11:16:02 AM #

Hmm. Great point. I think it will let you run the unit on an AC Adapter to save the AAA batteries. Also, a member of Cliesource has mentioned that the USB connection would power the SL10 when it is connected to the PC. :)

Reggie
http://www.cliesource.com

RE: Extra power option?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:17:41 AM #

Could it be that it is able to recharge NiMH's? Or are they just saving on a supercap to keep the RAM alive while you replace worn batteries?

There must be some practical use for this port that is not working while plugged in the mains just to save batteries; after all, this should not be a problem when they last (Sony say) 20 days.

Yes. But the power adapter can't recharge the batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:17:59 AM #

Isn't that strange :P

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:21:01 AM #

If you use a modem, the AC adapter makes sense

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:30:42 AM #

RE: Extra power option?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:35:42 AM #

If Sony says that the AAA batteries last 20 days, I don't believe it. Probably closer to 10 days if you're a user like me who uses the PDA a bit more often than they think.

There's no technical reason why it couldn't trickle-charge the batteries if you had rechargables installed. Wouldn't be fast, but leave it in overnight and you'd be good to go in the morning.

RE: Extra power option?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 2:29:19 AM #

Sure, and if you use the PDA one minute every two days, they would last for months.

Now, why don't they agree on a common benchmark for battery duration? PPCs (AFAIK) quote their non-stop battery duration, not assuming what your work needs are: I'm sure that when they say esteemed duration is 8 hours, it does not mean that if you take your PDA off the craddle when you leave for work, the batteries will _always_ be down (and the RAM contents are lost) before you go back home!

Of course, non-stop battery duration is also not a good measure of energy efficience, because of course the energy drain depends on what you do when the thing is on.

RE: Extra power option?

legohead @ 4/14/2003 3:45:52 PM #

Does anybody know if the side mini-b USB jack on the Clie SL10 can be used along with a "sync AND charge" cable attached to a "USB to AC" adapter in order to use AC power? (The Universal connector on the bottom CAN for certain be used for AC power- my question is with the side USB port).

USB-AC adapter: http://makeashorterlink.com/?M17832534
USB cable: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P21542534
Keyboard: http://makeashorterlink.com/?O16625534

two hotsync ports

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:25:14 AM #

Quite interesting. SL10 has two hotsync ports: the side USB port and the bottom T-series hotsync port. It comes with a cable for the side USB port. The bottom port is for compatibility with T-series accessories, hotsync cradle and serial hotsync cable.

I believe the side USB port can be faster since it forgos the serial interface.

USB vs. Serial Sync

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:51:31 AM #

Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought that all Palm OS mfrs moved to USB at least 18 mos ago (after Palm Vx). Do all Sonys really still use serial sync? Why?

RE: two hotsync ports

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:54:58 AM #

I am sorry to tell you this, but USB is a Universial Serial Bus, so USB is Serial. The only difference with this palm and all the other palms on the market is, this palm has a mini USB port built-in

RE: two hotsync ports

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:28:03 PM #

Sony T-series hotsync port support both USB and 9-pin serial cables. It supports a traditional serial interface in addition to USB interface, and is not a true USB slave.

RE: two hotsync ports

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:57:17 AM #

You and several others seem to be under the mistaken assumption that there's a T-series connector on the bottom of the Sl-10. There is not. There is no mention of this in the specs sony posted and seems to be from speculation posted only here.
The mini USB is all you get on this economy PDA.

RE: two hotsync ports

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 8:53:26 AM #

Yes there is a T-series port ...

"It also has the same HotSync port as on the T series. This means that all of Sony's handhelds will have the same connector for the first time since Sony introduced the T415 late last year. "

read the article, it tells you stuff you didn't know

RE: two hotsync ports

legohead @ 4/14/2003 2:27:44 PM #

Does anybody know if the side mini-b USB jack on the Clie SL10 can be used along with a "sync AND charge" cable attached to a "USB to AC" adapter in order to use AC power?

USB-AC adapter: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I28412534
USB cable: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P21542534
Keyboard: http://makeashorterlink.com/?O16625534

Interesting, but...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:50:32 AM #

Good low-cost PDA, but I would have prefer an OS5 palm annoucement... Maybe later !

RE: Interesting, but...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:51:42 PM #

Really, people should stop makin gthese OS5 comments every time a new device comes out, especially when on ethat obviously won't benefit from OS5 at all. This is a basic PDA, what do you need OS5 for?

RE: Interesting, but...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:36:50 AM #

Why do you care? What does PalmOS5 give you that PalmOS4 doesn't already have?

RE: Interesting, but...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 8:05:21 AM #

It is a lot cooler

How much does 8 megs cost?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 11:48:30 AM #

It would be nice if they also had a 16 meg model for just a few dollars more. I guess they were trying to hit a certian price point and needed to shave a little off. It seems like an 8 meg chip vs. a 16 meg chip would cost less than a dollar!

8MB only

Scott R @ 7/22/2002 12:03:56 PM #

It looks like Sony's doing what I predicted last month that Palm would/should do with its next low-end handheld: reduce the memory but include memory expansion. While the folks here may frown on this, it makes perfect sense for Sony/Palm. Here are the advantages (from their perspective):

1) It allows them to sell the device cheaper (save a few bucks on RAM).
2) Contrary to public opinion here, 8MB is actually way more than enough for a casual user. My Palm 5000 only had 512K if I remember right, and for PIM usage and a couple of small apps, it met my needs fine. I should add that my current PDA (a Samsung i300 smartphone) has 8MB and no memory expansion.
3) And the biggie...It increases sales of memory cards (more money for Sony and the memory-stick partners).

Scott

RE: 8 MB RAM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:43:20 PM #

Hmmm, it appears my post from last Friday or so was pretty much on the money. I _knew_ that the s360 was too good of a deal for the money...and Sony would end up replacing it soon with an "inferior" model. Personally speaking, I love the fact that it runs on AA batteries but WHY did they halve the ram? This is yet another perfect example of the Palm OS market taking a backwards step after it takes a forward step. Note the recent trend of diminishing screen sizes, maddeningly small and poorly shaped buttons and now this ram reduction. It would cost Sony SO little to keep the ram on this unit at 16 megs--then they could make a single size chip standard across their whole (for the time being) Clie product line. I'm still waiting for someone to release a 16 meg Palm OS 4.x unit that runs on AA's.

The benefits of high-res in a B&W unit are dubious at best....but having extra ram is always beneficial! Having a reduction to 8 megs is already an insult, but losing another meg to a stack is an absolute slap in the face@! I'd rather drop the memory stick slot (slow and proprietary) and have 16 megs (or more) internal anyday!

RE: How much does 8 megs cost?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:20:35 PM #

In theory, skimping on ram and adding an expansion slot is perfect for manufacturers because they sell more expansion cards and can save on manufacturing costs.
In practice, however, it sucks for the Palm OS in its current state because of the lack of standardized expansion format, OS 4.x's handling of external storage, the slow a** access time of the cards (especially memory stick), and the slew of programs that either refuse to run off a card or are so poorly programmed that they only run well when in ram.

Probably the thing that made me detest all thins memory-card related on my Palm was the memory leak bug on the Palm games card with Zap 2016. The whole point of having the games on the card was to save ram space, but then the thing was shipped with a fatal bug and required filling more precious ram with a "patch" that still doesn't solve the problem completely.

Finally, in regards to the previous post about the average user not needing more than 8 megs: well, my father is an inexperienced, yet avid user of his Prism and keeps a large emount of e-books in ram. He also keeps photo albums in Photosuite for showing off when he visits family etc. He's down to about 300k remaining and he would gladly welcome an extra 8 megs so that he can hold, surprise surprise, more books and pictures!

8MB only

Guinfs @ 7/22/2002 3:07:54 PM #

I agree with Scott and also believe that the 8Mb would keep the low end model away from the T series. If somebody wants or needs more RAM then he´d better go for the next level. Cruel but effective.

Guinfs

color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:00:00 PM #

so where are all those nice expert guys who called me a liar or went "LOL" when i posted this last week:

***
true ...
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2002 1:47:53 PM

the mentioned device will use the 320x320 gs display of the t-4xx series.
it will run on AAA batteries.

BUT THAT´S NOT ALL:
we will see 2 low-price clies with palmos 4.1 blowing away the m1xx series of palm.

both will be quite thick but way shorter than any palm today.
no metal casing but a light-silver squarish plastic-casing.

the other one is REALLY SWEET:
rechargable, 320x320 colorscreen comparable in brightness and color to that of the NR.
(ca. 350 euro / 300-350 us$)
believe me or not! - i had my hands on this one a couple of days ago and could compare it with my NR!
flame me if you like but remember where you heard it first!
***
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3865
***

maybe you´ll have a little bit more trust in me this time!
(or do you know better?)

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:16:22 PM #

No, I posted the prediction last week not YOU. You are an imposter.

RE: color sl30 is next ...

Beavis @ 7/22/2002 12:17:39 PM #

You'd have way more credibility if you did not post anonymously. BTW, I am the previous anonymous poster just trying to make a point. I did not post the original prediction last week.

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:20:55 PM #

O cool so there will be a hi-res colored one

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:27:29 PM #

if we knew who you were, then it would be easier to have trust in you. it's hard to have trust in i.m. anonymous

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:38:53 PM #

the original poster:

ok - i see your point - but neither could i use my real name nor one of my nicks without compromising a sony employee (who might lose his job).

some sony official could have detected my nationality or real name easily by doing some research in the common boards.

you can see the dilemma:
i wanted to share my first hand information with you but had to protect my source.

by posting anonymously some people might have thought that i was just some troll trying to show off.

a healthy scepticism is a good thing - but i was suprised how fast people call you a liar.

if you don´t know better a thing MIGHT BE TRUE unless it´s proven wrong.

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:03:16 PM #

errr ... how about your ip, hopefully Ed won't give that to Sony :)

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:05:47 PM #

as you've seen this device already, can you comment about the screen ? like is it just like T-415 ?

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:14:35 PM #

the screen was as brillant, bright and colorful as the screen of my NR. (short: perfect!)
the only thing i noticed was that with lowest brightness it was dimmer than the NR. (which is ok. for me because i think the NR is too bright when reading in bed for example.)
with med. or high brightness i couldn´t detect a difference.
i just could play with it for 1or 2 minutes but this thing is a cute little pda - not state of the art but the best value if you want color.

Ed: you would delete my postings before giving my ip to sony, wouldn´t you?! = )
think of this nice sony dude who gave me a glimpse.

RE: color sl30 is next ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:33:31 PM #

"as you've seen this device already, can you comment about the screen ? like is it just like T-415 ?"

oops ... my mistake:

in the previous posting i was referring to the color sl30.
i didn´t have the opportunity to play with the sl10.

RE: color sl30 is next ...

Beavis @ 7/22/2002 2:57:11 PM #

Nobody called you a liar. At least today. The only thing is that one comes across as less credible if they post anonymously. My real name may or may not be Beavis, but whenever something is posted under the name "Beavis", It has to be either me or someone else that has my login password, which no one does, at least I dont think they do, but you never know.

/Ramble Mode=Off

RE: color sl30 is next ...

Ed @ 7/22/2002 4:26:30 PM #

> Ed: you would delete my postings before giving my ip to sony, wouldn´t you?! = )

Of course I won't give your IP address out. In any case, Sony won't ask for it. They aren't that kind of company.

If you would, please send me an email at ed@palminfocenter.com I'd like to ask a couple questions.

---
News Editor

RE: color sl30 is next ... 665

graph @ 7/23/2002 11:43:04 AM #

So does that mean the t665 is one of the tree devices this summer, the 2nd is the SL10 and the 3rd is the lowend colored device without mp3?

But why does the 665 have the same button and design?

Palmpro, IIIe, Vx, IIIxe, m505
& Clie Peg-T665c owner

BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:29:07 PM #

So, where are all the sony lovers this time, always bragging about sony being the "only" innovator in the palm os? it seem the last two units from sony are nothing but very minor changes from the models they replace. NO INNOVATION. I'm shocked!!

As a matter of fact, they're going backwards, with less ram, no rechargable bateries, thicker than a big-mac, etc.

The only reason I bring this up is because of one thing, If this had been Palm that announced such a device today, then multitudes of morons would have been all over palm for "no innovation", no this, no that.....

Just my 2 cents.

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:39:42 PM #

hey, i'm the person who wrote the "UGLY!!!!!!" message above. i agree. this isnt exactly the N710 or NR when it was released, but keep in mind, lower end market. basics with the lowest cost wins in this arena. look over at handspring and the closest thing you get is the Visor Platinum. over a Palm you have m105. both of which, older than you know what.... and if you compare the sl10 with the m105 and Visor Platinum i personally would pick the sl10 for hi res and job dial alone... again, for me- but i can see how some would disagree- for me, it IS very nice to see that Sony is keeping their eyes on all of the pda market, from going against Pocket PC with the NR, and the lowest of the low with the SL10. personally i think they re excelling at the lowest of the low level (the S series with exception to the S300) and pushing the Palm OS as far as it can go with the NR series....

just MY two cents....

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:40:08 PM #

Show me a better $150 handheld.

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:42:49 PM #

Did I miss somthing? Does Palm has a hires $150 PDA? This is for low end and this thing is any time better than the m1xx Palm.

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

BertBert @ 7/22/2002 1:12:15 PM #

Just this morning I had a talk with one of my freshman students about a good, cheap entry-level PDA she could get to keep track of classes and do basic PIM things. I told her about the m100 but I didn't feel comfortable in actually recommending it to her. The SL10, however, is exactly what she needs and is in a college student's price range.

Sony is not taking a step backwards -- they are just making what looks like a hard-working, low-end handheld for a good price that normal people can afford and use. While we uber-geeks here at PIC might look down our noses at an SL-10 in favor of something with MP3 or Wi-Fi or built-in Cuisinart, remember that 85% of the population doesn't know what a handheld even *is*, and of the remaining number the majority just want soemthing that works and won't bust their budget. Just because something isn't "innovative" doesn't mean it's worthless... in fact many times innovation isn't worth anything to the average person.

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:28:16 PM #

I think you missed the original poster's point. This is a good PDA but if it was from Palm all the Sony fans would be bashing it as not being "cutting edge". Instead its from Sony so you're quick to leap to its defense.

"Fan" is short for "fanatic".

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:04:39 PM #

it's still kinda cutting edge in the low price and smallness department, I don't think there's any Palm OS PDA this small b4.

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:16:51 PM #

I don't think sony was intending on making innovation. I mean how much innovation can you expect from their BASE model. To the original poster, I think you missed the point here. Is sony going to put all of their innovation into the BASE model and sell it for $150? NO! What do you expect? MP3 playablility, virtual graffiti, built in 1.3mp camera, wireless capability in their BASE model?

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

abosco @ 7/22/2002 2:39:28 PM #

I am getting really fed up with these Sony glorifiers. You are comparing this device to the m105, the m125, and the m500. Fine. Then you go on to bash those three units for being way too expensive and having much less features. Well how old is this device? 1 day old? Well then, how old are the m105, m125, and m500? Over a YEAR old. At the time, the m105 and m125 were the greatest low-end models available. And now you are comparing the aging m500 to the SL10. STOP THAT. The m500 will be discontinued within a month, as well as the m125 and the m105. You guys can't really compare this to anything fairly. If you impatient fanatics are willing to wait a month, compare this to the Palm m300 or whatever their new $100 unit will be called. That is fair.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

BiffK @ 7/22/2002 2:43:54 PM #

Hey, it's got that little USB port... that's some innovation for you.

-Biff K

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:39:46 PM #

Sony seems to be responding to what the market claims to want. I have read countless posts by people (including Ed) claiming that AAA batteries are the way to go. Well, congratulations, now we've got them! I just traded my m125 for a Vx and would do it again to get rid of the @#$%@ things, but maybe I'm alone. Just bring the Treo 180g down to the same price as the 180k (200 dollars at Amazon) and I'll be happy!

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

PR @ 7/22/2002 5:50:56 PM #

this is the best deal in it's class right now. bottom line. it isn't unfair to compare it to what palm is offering right now. when palm actually comes out with something new, then we can compare it to that.

btw i'm a 515 owner

innovation

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:20:23 PM #

Sony is a Japanese company. One area in which Japanese companies have a reputation for innovation is in manufacturing technology. If Sony can make a unit with similar features for a lower manufacturing costs, they have an opportunity to increase profitability. Since the low cost units have a higher volume than the high cost units, innovation in manufacturing at the low end often pays off more than at the high end.

RE: BACKWARDS INNOVATION from sony!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 3:02:30 AM #

Who CARES how old Palm junk is... they had a YEAR to innovate on the low end and they simply pumped out more low-res junk. This device has a jog dial, USB port, 320 x 320 screen, not to mention a T-series connector meaning it won't be left out in accessories. Sony ALREADY has innovated and it's showing up in the low-end units now -- Palm hasn't and it's NOT showing up in their low end units.

Sony rules the roost in quality and innovation and Palm simply sucks it's thumb and wonders why it's lost 1/2 it's market in 2 y ears.

no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:45:24 PM #

is this the same screen as the T415, just re-hashed to fit in this thing? If this is the same or very similar screen then even 150 is too much. The picture don't look very inviting either. Has anyone actually seen one and could comment on the screen quality, backlight, daylight usability, etc. Thank you

How's the display?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 12:58:42 PM #

Let's hope that you can actually see the screen, unlike the T415.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

Ed @ 7/22/2002 1:18:06 PM #

This device has only been announced, not released, so no one outside of Sony has seen it. My contact at Sony said they hoped to get some demo units in this week so hopefully I should have a review out in a week or so. Until then, we can only speculate on the screen.

---
News Editor

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:20:35 PM #

I would hope that sony learned from their first monocrom hi-res disaster (t415) and won't do it again.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:46:46 PM #

Anyone have an idea on the screen size for this one? Are we looking at a hideously tiny Treo 90/m100 style mini screen or will this be closer to the s360's screen?

Also, on a related note, does anyone know offhand what the (to-date) largest Palm screen has been for a fixed graffiti unit? I had always assumed it was the Prism but I could be wrong...

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:35:29 PM #

If only, if only it had a collapsible, virtual graffiti area ... Curious to see the contrast, too.
I am really tempted by this little thing. I wonder if the construction is superior to the s360 -- or are the rumors about the power switch problems urban legend?

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:59:38 PM #

If it's the same screen as the T415, they could save money by dumping them into the landfill now.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:57:38 AM #

Hey! Sony has SAVED the T-415 screens they were SENDING to the landfill. Old crap in new wrap (ancient post-industrial Japanese saying!).

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 2:32:52 AM #

I happen to LIKE my t415's screen.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 2:21:17 PM #

So YOU'RE the one.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 6:25:24 PM #

It really wasn't that bad, just not nearly as good as the pictures showed. Most people who bash the T415 (if they even saw it in person) expected it to look horrible. When I used my T415, the backlight was on all the time (which, because it was monochrome didn't drain the battery very much at all) and I liked it.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 6:29:01 PM #

> Most people who bash the T415 (if they even saw it
> in person) expected it to look horrible.

Oh, please! I saw the T415 within days of its release, no prior expectations, and the screen is/was horrible. I even checked it out in a few other stores to verify that it wasn't that particular unit.

The screen was essentially black, all black, you could barely read it without the backlight. With the backlight (in lit conditions anyhow, never saw it in the dark), it was still far worse than ANY monochrome LCD display I've ever seen on any PDA or other electronic device. For that matter, you should never have to use the backlight on these types of B&W displays ALL THE TIME. It's nice that one or two of you thought that was acceptable, but the average person does not.

RE: no one has commented on the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/27/2002 11:41:18 AM #

I saw the SL10 at Comp USA. The screen is the same as the T415

Will there be a

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 1:51:18 PM #

I have a palm III which my gparents found in a charity shop for free as the owner didnt have a clue about electonics.
Anyway, its really cool, but the screen and low memory (2mb) are a bit annoying, but all i use it for is making notes and todo and games for at school and traveling.
But i am looking into the next generation of cheap handhelds to upgrade to.
If i upgrade i want to make it complety worthwile. This looks good (8mb, hi res screen) but i want to wait for OS 5, Will there be any cheap OS 5 devices, with all the good stuff?

RE: Will there be a

Altema @ 7/22/2002 10:54:55 PM #

If you are looking for a good, inexpensive unit, this is it. There will not be any "cheap" OS5 devices for a little while yet... perhaps after the high end devices are on the scene for a few months.

RE: Will there be a

Altema @ 7/22/2002 10:58:52 PM #

Let me add that this is a good deal *IF* the screen is decent. We don't know yet, and if the screen is poor, then go for the S360.

RE: Will there be a

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 10:08:56 AM #

I saw the S360 on sale at Best Buy in Sunday's flyer for $180 before "savings", so I'd assume another 10% off that price. Might as well go ahead and buy the S360 now and return it within the 30 day limit if the early reports of the Sl10 are good. If they are not, as I suspect is the case, then you'll have saved yourself the hassle of trying to track down a 360 before the supply dwindles too much. I am thinking more and more that this is, as the previous poster said, the same old crap (T415) in a fancy new shell. Keeping the T415's 8 megs of ram only furthers this theory...

New Accessories Too!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:15:55 PM #

Here's something else that's very interesting--if you look at the optional accessories listed on the specs page for the new Clie, there are a few intriguing new items listed:

Game controller: PEGA-GC10
Compact keyboard: PEGA-KB11
Mini keyboard: PEGA-KB20

I know the Mini keyboard has been out, but I included it to show that a "compact" keyboard is also being released, as well as a game controller. Can't wait to see what these look like!

(There's no other information that I could find on either the US or Japanese Sony Style sites.)

RE: New Accessories Too!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:22:35 PM #

I was just about to point that out... Any idea if the 'compact keyboard' could be a Stowaway, branded by Sony like Palm's PPK...?

RE: New Accessories Too!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:51:47 AM #

I'm just glad that the accessories I bought for my dead T415 will work if I decide to get the SL10.

It just makes my decision easier, damnit. So many times I try to teach Sony a lesson and they do something like this.

The tradition continues

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:22:17 PM #

Yay! Sony continues to discontinue old handhelds once again. R&D must be happy, but i can't see how they are making money.

RE: The tradition continues

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:26:30 PM #

If Sony could sell this PDA for 150 dollars, that only means Palm has been over charging the M500 for a long time.

RE: The tradition continues

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:03:56 PM #

well doh'...

Palm overcharging?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:28:10 PM #

If they're running a negative 8% profit on sales (and doing layoffs), maybe they should have been charging more?

RE: The tradition continues

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 8:45:20 PM #

Or hiring less designers to think for months and come up with brightening the screen and putting more ram in.

No Online Access.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 2:46:28 PM #

Sony is constantly overlooking the need for a modem. It's a problem even with the higher end line of PDAs. The PEG-NR70V and PEG-T615 do not have a modem as an accessory WHY? I understand from reading in the forums you can use a iR modem. Not made by Sony. :-( Of course the PEG-S360 has a Sony modem as an accessory. Bravo Sony! But this is gonna to be retired soon. :-( When is Sony ever going to wake up and make the modem option standard for all the series of CLIÉ? Wake up Sony!!! I hope Sony will address this problem and correct it ASAP. Sure Palm has this situation covered, but I am hesitant to go with Palm with all the defects on hardware and software. Not to mention Sony has more style sense.

RE: No Online Access.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:14:26 PM #

actually there are cables sold that could connect some cellphone to the clie and act as a modem.

RE: No Online Access.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:20:12 PM #

how many palm modems sold this year..not that many

RE: No Online Access.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:07:07 AM #

#1: You don't want to see all of the surplus discontinued PDA modems i've seen clearanced to $3.99 in my shop.

#2: If modems are such a big priority, why have the wireless systems (Palm i705 & VII) completely flopped?

Especially now, as cell phones have become more and more useful for wireless web, email, and such, having a connected PDA is becoming less and less of a priority.

Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:06:04 PM #

Plastic?

RE: Case material?

Beavis @ 7/22/2002 3:21:00 PM #

Platinum/Gold Mix

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:49:30 PM #

nope, bat guano. It keeps the prices low.

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:27:43 PM #

"nope, bat guano. It keeps the prices low."

thanks, i really laughed out loud hard like I haven't did in a long time on that one!

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:12:35 AM #

Seriously, though, I was one of the lucky 6 to have a T415.

The unit was the thinnest metal surrounding a cheap plastic skeleton. The plastic was actually stronger than the metal, which Sony didn't apparently realize when they attached the faux rear lower battery cover to the main unit with that same thin metal in the size of a toothpick (and as thin as paper).

The metal did feel nice and cool for the first 10 seconds in the hand, though. Other than that, it was just plain crap.

Call me stupid, though, i'm looking forward to this one. I didn't really mind the screen of the T415, it was one of the redeeming qualities of the unit in my opinion. The buttons look better, the unit looks thicker and sturdier, and actually, as I alt-tab to sonystyle while typing this, it really looks pretty damn stylish.

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:39:17 AM #

Bat guano would probably be expensive. Not much demand for it and it's not cheap to keep bats.

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 2:39:10 AM #

Yeah, they eat horrendous quantities of mosquitoes and **** all over the place!

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 8:45:22 AM #

oh I thought you called the guy who made the comment "bat guano". now that was funny!

RE: Case material?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 9:38:48 AM #

The use bat guano in lipstick.. i sh!t you not (pun intended) something to do with adhesion and consistency.

I'm sure its just an extract or oil or something..

Try not to think of that the next time you giveyour sweety a kiss.

Give Us a D Pad!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:09:01 PM #

With faster processors coming out and a new OS, it would be nice if Sony gave us a D pad so that we might be able to play games and navigate through menus. Of course, if I could program, I'd like to see MAME ported to the Palm OS.

RE: Give Us a D Pad!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:49:07 PM #

Right on.....you'd think that Sony, of all people, would see fit to include a D-pad. I mean, the playstation d-pad would be oh-so-easy to shrink down to a Palm. Or, remember that little Palmstation ( I think it was called) PDA-type device that had a little lcd screen and went in the PSX's memory card slot? I always assumed that the next step after that would be a Gameboy style device using miniaturized PSX-derived innards...

RE: Give Us a D Pad!!!

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2002 3:29:09 AM #

It was called a PocketStation - the coolest looking memory card ever made for the PSX but it eats batteries like crazy.

Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:31:52 PM #

I'm glad that they went with the AAA batteries instead of a built in recharable.

One thing that people forget is that when you're on the road, a lot of times you don't want to pack your charger with you. By using AAAs, Sony is making this unit really friendly to the Road Warrior.

With this, and a couple of rechargeable AAAs, I think I've finally found the replacement for my old IIIxe.

RE: Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:38:59 PM #

I agree. I actually prefer AAA over rechargable batteries.

ted

RE: Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:31:20 PM #

not me! I've had a Palm III, V, 505, 515 and I will be damned if I ever buy/change batteries again!!!!

RE: Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:38:55 PM #

Very true....if someone is on the go, it is easier to just spend a few bucks for some AAA's. And it is not like this new model is power hungry...like Palms with color screens and wireless net access

RE: Batteries

Altema @ 7/22/2002 11:10:34 PM #

"And it is not like this new model is power hungry...like Palms with color screens and wireless net access"

Very true if they are using a bluetooth card, but it is not likely anyone would be using a PAN while on the road except for cell modem access. Even I get tired after surfing the web for more than 30 minutes on a 2 inch screen. Especially since you can only get the handheld edition of PalmInfocenter which has none of the comments!

Sony says the battery life is about 20 days (10 hours average use), which is better than their other models, and almost on par with the M515 (12 to 14 hours). I spend a lot of time on the road, but it's mostly short trips of less than an hour. However, there are days I don't even make it to the office, and the Palm will be in use most of the time either in spread sheets and databases, or in the GPS sled while I'm driving or taking measurements. Even though I have never used my car charger, I can see someone who is away from home for a few weeks getting nervous if they don't have a place to recharge.

RE: Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 2:41:16 AM #

My arachnid sense tells me that not many people who can only afford $150 for a PDA are going to add an expensive WiFi card to it. Plus, and it is just my personal feeling, for really boundless connectivity you are much better off with a Bluetooth link to your GSM/GPRS phone.

For in-office connectivity, you can always pop in NiMH's (the wall socket shouldn't be far) or, if you don't like this alternative, shell quite a few more bucks for a higher end device

RE: Batteries

Altema @ 7/23/2002 11:17:45 AM #

"you can always pop in NiMH's"

Yep, those were my favorite. My laptop bag has a couple of pen loops that were perfect for AAA's. When they got low, I'd just make the switch and pop the low ones in the charger. The kids use Charge 'n' Run for theirs now though, cuts down on the "those are mine!" discussions....

Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:54:02 PM #

With Handpring, Kyocra (sorry for spelling), and Sony showing their new OS 4.x devices -

Does this mean that there won't be a low end OS 5 device
or
that the new OS 5 devices are still further out (e.g., won't be ready until at least 2003?

RE: Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:31:39 PM #

How would a low end device benefit from OS5 (in the next 12 months) anyway? If you add any feature that's new in OS5 and it wouldn't be low end anymore by today's standard. The first OS5 devices will be high end stuff... eventually, maybe after a year you'll see higher ends stuff.

RE: Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:56:51 PM #

not sure i agree.

right now, there are both low end and high end OS4.1 machines.

why wouldn't there by both low end and high end OS5 machines, unless it will take a year for the low end OS5 machines to appear after first the high end ones do?

And the t665 is not a low end machine. while much is said about now close the new sony's are anyway to OS5, and while sony innovates maybe too fast in some cases - do we also think that sony will be slow to introduce a OS5 machine since theirs are so close anyway? or in 3 months time, the t665 and nr70v will be discontinued??

RE: Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:28:24 PM #

I don't see how they can build an OS5 device for $150. There's both a technical and marketting reason for not having a low end OS5 device.

How are you going to give somebody a 200Mhz ARM for the same price as a 33Mhz Dragonball? I mean in 12 months, this may be a no-brainer but not in the immediate future.

There won't be any low end device for a while. Anything that costs more than $200 isn't really a low end device.

RE: Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 6:33:18 PM #

So what you mean to say is - that the "low end" OS 5 device, would actually be a OS 4.x device. And that there would be no "low end" OS 5 devices at all. That all OS 5 devices would be the "high end" Palm OS devices. That would be too bad.

I think there will be a "low end" OS 5 device. Just like there are low end OS 4.x devices now.

It's just surprising to see new OS 4.x devices being released. Even if I was short on cash - I'd wait for now before buying a new PDA; waiting to see what the OS 5 devices offered and how much they cost. (Or just go with the T665!)

RE: Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

Ed @ 7/23/2002 9:20:19 AM #

There probably won't be low-end OS 5 devices. There's no point. Basically, these would be no different from low-end OS 4 devices. Both versions of the OS can run 68k apps, which were written for OS 4. PACE requires a fairly quick processor to run 68k apps at a good speed. If you put a slow, inexpensive processor in a low-end OS 5 handheld, it will actually be slower than a 33 MHz Dragonball in a low-end OS 4 one.

Read more about PACE here:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3863

What OS 5 will add is high-end capabilities, like multimedia. The slow, inexpensive processors likely to go in low-end devices probably won't be able to do handle multimedia and high-end games very well.

OS 6 (or whatever it gets called) is the big change, when you will start to see apps totally coded for ARM. Even low-end processors will be able to run these very quickly so you'll probably begin to see low-end handhelds running OS 6. This won't happen for about a year and half, though.

Just so we're clear, this is just my opinion. There are some of those slow, inexpensive processors in the Palm OS Ready program so someone could make a low-end Palm OS 5 model if they wanted to. I just don't see a point.

---
News Editor

RE: Does this mean there won't be a low end OS 5 device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 6:47:22 PM #

I think there will a low end OS 5 device. Just like there are low end Pocket PC 2002 devices.

RE: Slightly off-topic question for Ed.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:56:18 PM #

Hi Ed,

I was just wondering how that additional info you were going to get on the "OSLO" is coming along. I'm not trying to rush you or anything, I just can't wait to find out more about the new palms coming out. I love this site and I'll keep checking for updates on that story.

Sorry for using the Sony story to ask about the upcoming palm but I didn't know where else to post a question like this.

Thank you Ed. Keep up the good work.

RE: Slightly off-topic question for Ed.

abosco @ 7/22/2002 10:56:00 PM #

Try the forums.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

RE: Slightly off-topic question for Ed.

Ed @ 7/23/2002 9:04:42 AM #

Sorry, I was working on a part of that article about PACE and it grew to the point where it became a whole article on its own. I'm running it today so look for the Oslo article tomorrow (probably).

Also, I've been delaying because I can't get anyone to talk about how much RAM it has. I may just run the article without that.

---
News Editor

Where's the on/off button? [nm]

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 3:59:59 PM #

Where's the on/off button

RE: Where's the on/off button? [nm]

Ed @ 7/22/2002 4:16:25 PM #

It is on the top:
www.sonystyle.com/images/tour/computing/sl10/images/tour_07.jpg

---
News Editor

RE: Where's the on/off button? [nm]

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 4:34:06 PM #

just look at pic 3 on the sony site..

RE: Where's the on/off button? [nm]

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 1:55:45 AM #

if nothing else, sony can sure style a cool on/off button.

Battery Life

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:03:06 PM #

Does anyone knows how much hours is 20 days of battery life by Sony's standards?

Thanks

RE: Battery Life

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:13:33 PM #

About 3 weeks.

RE: Battery Life

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:18:07 PM #

when I see the 3 weeks comment, for some reason I burst in laughter .... 20 days ... about 3 weeks ... hmm .... didn't know that.

RE: Battery Life

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 12:39:16 AM #

Sony generally rates battery life of its PalmOS handhelds with a usage of 30 minutes per day. So 3 weeks would be 21 days or a pinch over 10 hours of continuous on-time before the battery warning, assuming fresh alkalines, much less with rechargeables.

Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:19:33 PM #

Why bother bringing out a handheld like this now? It seems backwards. No cradle, OS4.1, 8mb ram and no rechargeable batteries. I thought the entry level models were getting better?

Another sign that the manufacturers are suffering in this economy. They are scaling back instead of bringing new technologies to this entry market. Oh well, I'm not buying it. Maybe good for someone.

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:48:42 PM #

As many posts have stated, at $150, this device is not backward at all. Of course it is "backward" if you have a NR70V. But hello, we are talking about a $150 PDA.

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:59:27 PM #

you don't really need to buy everything sony makes, no body is asking you to buy it anyway. So you can probably save your time from telling sony you are not buying it everytime they releases a product.

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 6:02:15 PM #

> Why bother bringing out a handheld like this now?
Because there's a market. All those features for $150 is tasty.

> It seems backwards.
Quite the opposite. A step forward.

> No cradle,
Most people dislike cradles. A standard USB cable is included.

> OS4.1,
So what? That's the latest version!

> 8mb ram
It's a reasonable tradeoff.

> and no rechargeable batteries.
Lithium batteries have a limited lifespan. When your NR70 dies, I'll still be chugging along my trusty SL10.

> I thought the entry level models were getting better?
This one is way better - it's a major improvement over all previous $150 handhelds. Are you an idiot? You forgot to mention the crisp 320x320 screen, back button, mini-USB port and its small form factor.

> Another sign that the manufacturers are suffering in this economy.
Irrelevant.

> They are scaling back instead of bringing new technologies to this entry market.
Care to be more specific? To deny that the SL10 is short of groundbreaking (for its price) exemplifies your idiocy. In any case, Sony knows business - you don't.

All levels suited

Stingray @ 7/22/2002 10:12:07 PM #

The only thing i like about rechargables is that you can overclock the palm and leave it overclocked without worrying about $$$ for new batteries....after some time the amount really gets large...if someone bothers to keep accounts for his/her palm battery you will notice it. I think it would be better value to just buy a travel charger pack:)

"May the potato be with you!"

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 12:18:20 AM #

> As many posts have stated, at $150, this device is not backward at all. Of course it is "backward" if you have a NR70V. But hello, we are talking about a $150 PDA.

You think b/c it's cheaper, that the previous model with 16mb was too much ram for you and this 8mb is not going backwards. The only real improvement is the screen. No cradle either just a cable? I think the m100 was the first and last time that Palm thought about that one.

> Why bother bringing out a handheld like this now?
>>Because there's a market. All those features for $150 is tasty.

Tasty to who? Obviously to people who never owned a palm device. No current entry level Sony user is going from 16mb to 8mb.

> It seems backwards.
Quite the opposite. A step forward.

Step forward? Better screen, yes. But that's it. Losing 8mb of ram and a cradle? I think not. Remember the m100? I believe they all come with cradles now.

> No cradle,
Most people dislike cradles. A standard USB cable is included.

Who doesn't like cradles? Only travellers possibly. You're telling me you don't like looking at your PDA sync in a cradle, instead flat on your desk away from your eyes?

> OS4.1,
So what? That's the latest version!

Sorry, latest version yesterday. Did you hear OS5 has been RTM for awhile? Yes, pal. Maybe some OS5 device could appear uh? No current user is going to buy a device knowing that OS5 is around the corner.

> 8mb ram
It's a reasonable tradeoff.

Tradeoff??? Give me a break. 8mb was yesterday's model, no sorry the previous model had 16mb. Who would go backwards?

> and no rechargeable batteries.
Lithium batteries have a limited lifespan. When your NR70 dies, I'll still be chugging along my trusty SL10.

Like you will be using this still when the battery dies in the NR70! They do last for more than a couple of years, pal.

No sir, you're the idiot. The screen is better, but the tradeoffs are too much. Small form factors are not new, mini usb port is for the sync cable not some new technology to attach accessories and the new case is nothing great. Sony doesn't even keep the handheld model around for long to even create accessories for it! Different conenctors since Sony came to market are common and not universal as with Palm.

> Another sign that the manufacturers are suffering in this economy.
Irrelevant.

Why else but bring models to the market that will be outdated already in a couple of months when OS5 appears. We know it's for the shareholders and for money to keep bringing out models to keep things flowing. We saw this with Palm also and their i705. this thing isn't selling or being promoted. Why? Because there is a new model coming this fall that is wireless and with OS5 similar to the Treo.

Sony knows business, you sure are correct. It's all about the Benjamins baby. You think they care? This model will be dead in a few months just like the other models. We know this as a fact from Sony. You're the idiot for thinking this is a marvelous product in this price range. New users it maybe fine, but come on, who else is this for? I'm not upgrading my Visor Edge to this. Slim, rechargeable batteries, 8mb of ram and expandable too. The screen is better on the Sony, but if it's the same as the T415, good luck looking outside. That screen sucked.

Sony Connector Misconceptions

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2002 3:37:55 AM #

I don't know why we keep seeing this myth.

Sony has had a total of 2 connectors:
(a) the original style on the "S" and "N" series and
(b) the newer style on the "T", "NR" and now "SL" series

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 4:20:54 AM #

I think 8mb is a huge amount of memory. when i see my friend delting stuff because he "only has 2 mb free" i am extremely confused. i have a palm III (free from charity shop) with only 2 mb. i wouldnt have a clue what to do with 8 mb.

Gaming note taking rambler

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:25:31 AM #

> You think b/c it's cheaper, that the previous model with 16mb was too much ram for you and this 8mb is not going backwards. The only real improvement is the screen. No cradle either just a cable? I think the m100 was the first and last time that Palm thought about that one.

Cradles add a useless bulk to the package. It's a remnant from the days of the disconnected organizer. The future is wireless. Nobody needs them anymore.

> Tasty to who?
Lot of folks. Go to your brick and mortar shop and ask around. I do it all the time.

> Obviously to people who never owned a palm device.

I have used most of Palm's releases since the early Pilots. I'm sure that most power users would like the SL-10 for what it is.

> No current entry level Sony user is going from 16mb to 8mb.

Who gave you the authority to determine what the entry level user wants? 8mb is still plenty by PalmOS standards.

> Step forward?
Absolutely.

> Better screen, yes. But that's it.

Isn't that enough?

> Losing 8mb of ram and a cradle?
As I've said, they're very reasonable tradeoffs.

> I think not.
Oh, you WILL think so.

> Remember the m100? I believe they all come with cradles now.

Bzzzt - WRONG! You've just blown your credibility away (or the lack thereof). The m100 ships with a serial CABLE. From the m105 and up, they ship with cradles, although the 105 uses serial.

> Who doesn't like cradles?
I don't mind a cradle, but in a base model it's a critical cost-saving measure. You want cradle? Buy one, or get a higher end model.

> Only travellers possibly.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this idiotic statement.

> You're telling me you don't like looking at your PDA sync in a cradle, instead flat on your desk away from your eyes?

You're arguing personal taste. Weak.

> Sorry, latest version yesterday.
You're dead WRONG. All current Palms don't run anything higher than 4.1

> Did you hear OS5 has been RTM for awhile?
And show me a -product- in the market already running it. That's right, you can't answer that one.

> Yes, pal.
I'm not your pal.

> Maybe some OS5 device could appear uh?
Uhh?

> No current user is going to buy a device knowing that OS5 is around the corner.
The SL-10 is a low risk at $150. All the early OS5 devices will be high-end.

> Tradeoff??? Give me a break. 8mb was yesterday's model, no sorry the previous model had 16mb.
8mb is more than enough for an ENTRY LEVEL user. Can't you get that through your thick, vacuous skull?

> Who would go backwards?
Nothing backwards about it, you fool.

> Like you will be using this still when the battery dies in the NR70!
I could prove you wrong.

> They do last for more than a couple of years, pal.
Again, you flex out your idiocy.

> No sir, you're the idiot.
Nope. As it stands, you're the idiot. I pray that your kind does not breed. Oh, the horror!

> The screen is better, but the tradeoffs are too much.

Not really.

> Small form factors are not new,
DUH!

> mini usb port is for the sync cable
It also has a 'standard' T series port. Two ports for the price of one!

> not some new technology to attach accessories and the new case is nothing great.

How do you know?

> Sony doesn't even keep the handheld model around for long to even create accessories for it!
Most users don't buy accessories.

> Different conenctors since Sony came to market are common and not universal as with Palm.

ROTFLMAO!!! You're seriously messed up, pal. There's nothing universal about Palm's connector, outside of Palm, Inc. By that logic, Sony's MemorySticks are 'universal'

> Why else but bring models to the market that will be outdated already in a couple of months when OS5 appears.

Ask Sony.

> We know it's for the shareholders and for money to keep bringing out models to keep things flowing.
As it is with every other company.

> We saw this with Palm also and their i705. this thing isn't selling or being promoted. Why? Because there is a new model coming this fall that is wireless and with OS5 similar to the Treo.

In that case, they should just stop promoting PDAs altogether. There will always be a better one around the corner.

> Sony knows business,
They do, don't they?

> you sure are correct.
Always.

> It's all about the Benjamins baby.
Everyone wants them. Not just Sony.

> You think they care?
Nope. Neither should you. Let the economy determine its outcomes.

> This model will be dead in a few months just like the other models.
And now you figured it out.

> We know this as a fact from Sony.
Sony updates frequently because they are a multi-billion dollar company. Palm & Handspring combined, are not.

> You're the idiot for thinking this is a marvelous product in this price range.

No, YOU are the idiot. The SL-10 is a marvelous product for $150. How many times do I need to correct your defective reasoning? Go see a doctor, ASAP!

> New users it maybe fine, but come on, who else is this for?
Road warriors would find it convenient to swap AAA batteries while being away from a power source. Besides, this is the best mono device ever made!

> I'm not upgrading my Visor Edge to this.
Ah, now you're getting defensive about your $400 investment. It must be hard to cope.

> Slim,
Not anymore, pal.

> rechargeable batteries,
Poor battery life and no travel charger included.

> 8mb of ram
You just said 8mb sucks. Eat your own words.

> and expandable too.
LOL! You're a comic genius. Wake up, idiot, the Springboard is dead and overpriced. Stop trying to justify your $40 on a meager 8mb backup card. Here's my suggestion: cut your losses NOW, and move up to an SL-10.

> The screen is better on the Sony, but if it's the same as the T415, good luck looking outside.
Have you even played with a T415? Obviously not.

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:55:35 PM #

>" No current user is going to buy a device knowing that OS5 is around the corner."<

Well, golly gee! So anyone want to show me an announced product yet?

>"Besides, this is the best mono device ever made!"<

Not quite. The SL10 has a nice form factor, but in terms of battery/power options, expandability, and the ability to add peripherals when needed, the Handera 330 still has this beat. Can you connect a full size keyboard to your Sony with a T-series connector? That's the one thing I miss since getting a T615. For the price, though, SL10 is a very decent offering. Now if Handera would lower the price on the HE330, and promote it a little more...

RE: Why Sony, why bother?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 9:37:32 AM #

> Lithium batteries have a limited lifespan. When your NR70 dies, I'll still be chugging along my trusty SL10.

Thanks for making this point.

Rechargables DO have a finite number of charge cycles over their life. Yes, I have exceeded that number in a Casio E-100 color Palm PC. I even bought a second battery at the time (proprietary, $ 99 plus s&h, only from Casio of course). Note these were NiMH, I believe.

Though I bought the unit in August 1999, it still is a useful tool. BUT 8 months ago, I have exhausted both batteries, and am faced with buying a new battery (discontinued)??

My Palm IIIx, bought around the same time, is still going strong, replacing the disposable AAA's about once a month on average.

I just can't understand how so many folks balk at disposables, like they're replacing them every other day or something!!?? At least I can choose when to retire a device, not the rechargable battery,

1st Disposable Battery Sony Palm?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:22:14 PM #

is this the first sony palm pilot that runs on disposable battery?

RE: 1st Disposable Battery Sony Palm?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:38:08 PM #

Yes, the first and only.

If you think twice...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:38:53 PM #

you'll notice that there is a great move by Sony.

SL-10 may not have many innovations, but it's an important guiding light for Sony. Did you notice that SL-10 has many things that has been done by other PDA's manufacturer, but it's the first time for Sony?

- AAA battery
- Optional game pad
- 2 different optional keyboards
- mini-USB
- absence of cradle
- bundled software (no OmniRemote etc, but kept Doc To Go)
- $150 price point

Sony wants to see the comments/reviews/sales generated by this low cost unit as a test for market direction. Future Clie will definitely be affected.

And I would like to argue that this is the first Clie to invade the enterprise market, if the screen is done right. Don't you think SL-10 is a nice PDA for the Sales (ok, except for the optional game pad) at an attractive price point for the current corporate market?

RE: If you think twice...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 5:57:46 PM #

I definitely like Mini USB on the device, it would be great if the mini-USB totally take over the function of the serial port.

RE: If you think twice...

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2002 3:48:07 AM #

My take on it is that Sony wanted to make their new entry-level device as inexpensive as possible. Period.

Where was this when I bought my M125???

Strider_mt2k @ 7/22/2002 6:44:46 PM #

Given the choice, I would have taken this unit in a heartbeat. Now, unfortunately my M125 will probably hang on for another 5 years! gaaa I'm disgusted.
(Also broke!)

strider_mt2k@yahoo.com

RE: Where was this when I bought my M125???

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:09:17 PM #

Sell you m125 and eat soup for a month.

Maybe it is worth it. :)

Just how big is the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:20:51 PM #

Several pictures on the sonystyle web site show the SL10 next to an actual credit card and it's only slightly taller than the cc. Does this mean that the screen is tiny or what? They even mention that the unit is 13% shorter than the T series which is pretty small to start with.

This screen has got to be either the same size or maybe even smaller than the Palm M1xx series or even the treo 90. I hate the fact that they don't mention anywhere the actual dimensions of the screen.

Re: Just how big is the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:32:30 PM #

The Sonystyle web site say the display is 3 inches (diagonal I assume), same as the S360.

RE: Just how big is the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:39:50 PM #

I know this will seem like a stupid question, but where does it say that on the sony web site, I've been looking and can't find anything but the dimensions of the whole thing, ot the screen. If you could post a link, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

RE: Just how big is the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 7:38:45 AM #

>> Several pictures on the sonystyle web site show the SL10 next to an actual credit card
>> and it's only slightly taller than the cc

The picture you are referring too shows a credit card behind the Sony and tilted to make it look longer.
You should look more closely. Actuall size of this is pretty close to the s320/360. It is a bit shorter due to case redesign and a hair wider . It is also thicker to hold the replaceable batteries. Screen dimensions look to be prety much the same also. Only screen change I can tell is the higher resolution and if it is the same screen as used before that may not be any improvement. Has anyone notice there are no pictures of the bottom of this showing whatever connecter may or may not be there? If this is the low end economy model maybe there is only the usb port on the side.

>> Does this mean that the screen is tiny or what? They even mention that the unit is 13%
> shorter than the T series which is pretty small to start with.

Just how big is the screen?

RE: Just how big is the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 11:10:07 AM #

I made a rough estimate of the screen's size by comparing my S320's length-width-height to the measurements given for the SL10. The screen appears that it will be the same size as the S-series screen, or possibly slightly larger.

Bluetooth ms and SL10

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 7:59:25 PM #

will it work with the bluetooth ms ?

RE: Bluetooth ms and SL10

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2002 3:52:09 AM #

The Bluetooth supporting files are an optional component of OS4.1 so they might have included them, but if it cost any extra for licensing fees, probably not. Actually, with the cost of the Bt Memory Stick being more than the device, I don't think it's a feature that too many SL10 owners are going to miss ;)

RE: Bluetooth ms and SL10

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 5:31:27 AM #

ok - im i low-tech - old scool - and i would love to BT my ericsson t39 and the SL10 - thee coolest combo
i m h o

The Handstrap Ringy Thingy is Finally Gone!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 8:11:00 PM #

Probably why they could sell it at such a good price point ;-)

RE: The Handstrap Ringy Thingy is Finally Gone!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 9:29:24 PM #

It looks like there's still a loop to attach handstraps to; it's just plastic and part of the case (look in the top-left corner of the picture).

The S320/S360 were similar.

RE: The Handstrap Ringy Thingy is Finally Gone!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:52:50 AM #

its still there ;)

it looks like a box of altoids.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2002 9:50:08 PM #

not a very nice lookin device....sorry..

RE: it looks like a box of altoids.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 11:25:42 AM #

It IS a good-looking device.

RE: it looks like a box of altoids.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 6:31:26 PM #

is not

RE: it looks like a box of altoids.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 6:35:24 PM #

wow...it does look like a box of altoids...wonder if it really IS a box of altoids!

Enhanced IR?

DoYouGotPalm? @ 7/22/2002 11:01:52 PM #

Does this model have an enhance IR for A/V TV remotes? Like the T-series?

I dont cuss, smoke, or drink ...
Damn it, i left my cigarettes at the bar.

RE: Enhanced IR?

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2002 3:54:55 AM #

Probably not -- they don't include the Clie Remote Commander software, and the additional Ir transmitter means additional cost (and I believe they're try to make this device as cheaply as possible)

waw?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 5:59:30 AM #

can it play waw files like the 415

RE: waw?

Ed @ 7/23/2002 9:18:12 AM #

No. That requires several pieces of hardware not included on this low-end model.

---
News Editor

RE: waw?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 10:53:38 AM #

will it be the standard palm beep beep then again?

Speaker or Piezo

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2002 2:28:30 PM #

That is one of two remaining questions I have regarding the SL10. Does it include an actual speaker (so you can actually HEAR alarms) or have they reverted to the Piezo to save costs?

Inquiring minds want to know!

The other question, of course, is:
"So, how good IS that screen."

I TOTALLY don't understand why ... ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 3:27:03 PM #

I TOTALLY don't understand why you guys ask so much on this Clie SL-10.

What are we talking about here? A latest Clie with HiRes, selling at the lowest price in the market (does not include those discontinued device).

Please take a look at the features it has, compare to other Palms that you need to pay $200+ to get.

What do you expect to get in this $149 device?
All functions in NR seris? All function in T series? MP3?

Come on.. it was defined in the low-end entry level, and it's been priced at a GREAT range, please be very clear to keep the the price you pay in mind, before go ahead to be picky on the spec of this machine.

RE: I TOTALLY don't understand why ... ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:48:32 AM #

I guess people are frustrated with this device because they paid 299 for m500, now they can get everything m500 has to offer and even more for half the price, if I were them I'd be pissed too, darn Sony how could you sell it for 150, at least sell it for $350 so people who bought m500 could be less pissed.

RE: I TOTALLY don't understand why ... ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:45:31 AM #

yes, I totally agree, don't complain on a $149 device if it doesn't have remote controller, it doesn't play MP3, its case is not made by aluminum, the screen is smaller than NR70V...

It is a $149 product which supports 320x320 HiRes !! Don't make yourself looked stupuid, it's like to compare a Mercedes C230 and S600.

YES they are made by the same manufacturer. But NO, you pay different price to them, can't expect the same things. Nothing to complain iof the low--end product does not have something "you like it to have".

If you want those features, then please pay more to get the model of a higher level.

RE: I TOTALLY don't understand why ... ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:31:32 PM #

I agree. Carrying the car analogy along even further:

A base Mercedes 190 series 10 years ago was pretty bare bones, basic transportation yet retailed for approx. $30,000 or so with a 4-cylinder engine. It was certainly safe, reliable, fairly comfortable etc but lacked any bells or whistles short of the essentials for a car of that caliber (power windows, AC, Airbag, radio with cassette, etc). Certainly no leather seats or anything of that nature!

Fast-forward 10 years later and for about $28,000 you can get a brand new Mercedes c240 with a v-6 engine, numerous airbags, keyless entry, automatic climate control, leather sesats and numerous other features for less than Mercedes' cheapest model a decade ago!
Yet do you see angry customers storming the Mercedes factory in Stuttgart demanding a refund/trade-up to the newer model? Nope, everyone accepts it as progress/competition and either enjoys what they have or trades it in for a newer model.
While the build quality might not be as good you will get an overall more desirable package with more "goodies". That's just how free markets progress and improve their products!

Use the same logic when looking at these Palm handhelds! This SL10 Sony has features on it that were unimaginable (at that price point, that is) a year and a half ago when the m500 was released. So what if the case if made of a flimsier material--you are not comparing apples to apples. Now if Palm releases a new $150 OS 4.1 handheld in the next month or so and it's just an m105 with the UC and a SD slot, then yes, _then_ you can make an accurate comparison and say "Sony rules!". This market is so volatile and moves along so speedily (even at Palm's pace!) that it's not really fair to do so many constant comparisons. People should just buy whatever they like and can afford and stick with it. The m500 is not magically renedered obsolete overnight by any means! Sigh...

Potentially HOT deal on SL10!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 11:02:52 PM #

Guys, I just saw an advance copy of the weekend's upcoming Best Buy flyer. The SL10 is advertised on the front page of the ad for $149.99 with a $25 mail-in rebate (Bbuy promo, not Sony's--it applies to ALL PDA's in the store, btw). The m105 is inside the flyer at a "price break" savings of $50, making it $99.99 _before_ the $25 rebate as well (this finally puts it in a pricing category where it belongs, IMHO).

To sweeten the deal a bit more, I know that my buddies are always getting these $5 and $10 Bbuy coupons in the mail for being a preferred customer, so if you combine all of this (and factor in their generous return policy) you have the makings for a pretty good deal for a nice new PDA to hold y'all over until the OS 5 units are out/affordable.

And for the kid with the Palm III.....maybe you can talk your parents into getting this or the m105 so you'll have some more ram to play around with ;-)

P.S. I also recall seeing somewhere else recently, the Handspring Visor Neo for $99.99--a far superior unit to the m105 if Bbuy are selling it at this price.

RE: Potentially HOT deal on SL10!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 11:27:36 PM #

Ok here's a quick follow up on my previous post. Looks like I posted before scanning the rest of the Sunday ads.

Staples has an m500 for $184.99 after "instant savings" (none of that POS mail-in rebate junk) and is showing a regular price of $194.99. Hmmm, I smell a huge price drop coming for the Palm monochrome models...

Also, Staples has listed on the same page (remember, these prices don't go into effect until Sunday the 28th!) the m105 for $89.99, after $5 instant savings. So probably a better deal for those that don't want to wait around for Bbuy's rebate check to come in the mail. Now, the interesting part of this is that in the item description it says that the m105 runs OS 4.0. PROBABLY a typo but it could also be like what I recall Palm doing for the very last of the V units--selling them with OS 3.5 preinstalled (while ironically some of the early Vx units shipped with 3.1 standard). Still, in all likelihood it's prob. just a mere typo ;-)

Discussion Hijinks

Polyman @ 7/24/2002 2:44:20 AM #

Come on guys, use the forums for crying out loud. Easier on the eyes :)

www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6146

Use AAA Batteries

PIC mobile user @ 7/24/2002 3:29:14 AM #

Do you really think that the SL10 with Hi-Res screen can survive using AAA Batteries alone? The Hi-Res Screen will drain the power? Remeber the HandEra? It's need 4 AAA Batteries! Hope Sony will make rechargable Li-On battery pack. :-)

RE: Use AAA Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:10:01 PM #

Hello idiot! The Handera 330 used 4 AAA's so that you would have adequate current if you used a Microdrive in the CF slot. Without that, the battery life is incredibly long on the 330. So yes, two AAA's should be more than sufficient to power the SL-10 for quite and extended period of time.

Why bother using flash ROM at all?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:21:07 PM #

Since it's obvious there is not going to be an upgrade to OS5 anytime soon for the current units, couldn't Sony have pulled a Handspring and left the flash memory out completely? That would have (possibly) saved them enough to enable 16 megs of ram on the unit--unless, of course, they don't WANT to give users 16 megs!

But I really don't see the benefit coming out of the extra cost from the flasm rom chips. Perhaps someone else has some further insight (Asian models etc)?

Am I correct in thinking that every unit released by Sony, thus far, has had flash ROM?

of the extra space for flash memory

RE: Why bother using flash ROM at all?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:55:20 AM #

If it is true that this unit can not accept Palm OS5, then I totally 100% agree with you.

Does this have an audible alarm???

supercoupe92 @ 7/25/2002 7:00:41 PM #

I'm quite interested in this PEG-SL10 (size, cost, resolution), HOWEVER, there is one key feature that I haven't been able to confirm yet.

Does this thing have an audible alarm?

Circuit City's website says it does NOT have a "Reminder Alarm". However, I'm not able to confirm this on Sony's website or any other vendor's website.

I think an alarm is critical. I love the small size, so it will be in my side pocket as I bounce between places at work. However, without an alarm to remind me of things... I fear I will forget a meeting, etc. I don't want to have to check it ever 20 minutes visually to see what's coming up.

Can anyone confirm that this has an audible alarm?

PS> I'm tempted by the rumors of a color SL10 (SL30??), while it would be neat... I feel it would be priced above the $200 mark (too much!). I already have an iPAQ3850 for the color, MP3, wireless, compact flash, etc,etc.... I want an SL10 type device to keep in my pocket while I'm at work or out and about shopping for schedules, to-do, and contacts. I also don't want to worry about charging it every 4-8 hours.

Thank you for your replies and putting up with my winded post. :) LOL!!

RE: Does this have an audible alarm???

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/1/2002 5:50:29 PM #

This reply is posted extremely late, but since I do have an SL-10 I figured I'd throw in my two cents.

It does have an audible alarm. About 5 to choose from. Very useful, I agree. :o)

Batteries

UZI4U182 @ 7/30/2002 1:06:33 PM #

This device would be perfect if it wasn't for the use of AAA batteries. One of my friends has a Visor Neo, and it kills batteries in hardly any time at all. Just think of the battery life on this thing: Hi-res screen, USB port, Memory stick read/write, etc. etc. I will wait and pay the extra $50 for the SL20 which supposedly has a rechargeable and maybe if we're lucky it will have 16MB of RAM.

www.tavern.2ya.com

--Devan--
[ http://www.tavern.2ya.com

Memory Stick Access

soccernut @ 12/5/2002 5:05:02 AM #

Im looking into purchasing one of these little units. My question to current owners is, how is its access time and performance using programs from the memory stick? Can any type of programs be stored on the memory stick? I played a little bit with a Palm M125 and SD card and it was a little slow. Anyone with an M125 also that can compare the two? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

< Home | Return to Article | Comment Board

Account

News Higlights

Latest Comments

I got one -Tuckermaclain
RE: Don't we have this already? -Tuckermaclain
RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -richf
RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -dmitrygr
Palm phone on HDblog -palmato
Palm PVG100 -hgoldner
RE: Like Deja Vu -PacManFoo
Like Deja Vu -T_W