Comments on: Rumor: Sony T-Series with Virtual Graffiti

Many people are hoping Sony will release a T-series model with a hi-res+ screen. Well, one appears on SonyStyle right now, sort of. In the Product Tour for the T665C is a page talking about its built-in TV remote control. However, the images on that page clearly show it with a virtual Graffiti area, exactly like the one from the NR series but which the T665C doesn't actually have. However, this is more likely a mistake made by a graphic artist than a hint of Sony's plans for the future.
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fperkins @ 7/29/2002 9:10:16 AM #
... pretty soon people will be buying remote controls with the PDA feature built in ;-)

[ED: Could you please post the article above [or below] the comment fields? Makes it easier to comment on a story when you can reference it as you're typing]

RE: Funny...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 1:05:38 PM #
Its actually very useful when you cant find your remote. No training required, but by the way you talk im sure you havent owned a longranged IR Clie with RMC. too bad

nice, but...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:11:10 AM #
not to start a flame war, because I really don't - but it seems to me that 1/3rd more screen means a reduction of at least 1/5th or more battery life - as its more pixels to turn over, and more processor time doing it...

people are always complaining about the battery life of sony devices (I personally don't see it / care - its a rechargable battery, cradle it... it will last a few days of moderate use) but if they keep the dedicated DSP with mp3 playing and use this better screen, I think their battery life will continue its downward spiral.

Of course, using the 66mhz processor and shucking the mp3 for more battery life might be a nice choice for the more business/application minded like myself... A bigger screen is always a welcome addition.

RE: nice, but...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 2:37:15 AM #
This isn't always the case. The Handera 330 uses virtual graffiti (they were the first to market with it), and the battery life on that unit is quite good.

False Hope

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:25:13 AM #
Another thing that suggests this is a mistake is the lack of physical buttons on the bottom front...Too bad.
markgm @ 7/29/2002 9:26:58 AM #
As much as I would love this to be true, I wonder where the buttons are (maybe Sony realized how bad they were and just got rid of them ;-).) This makes me wonder it I would have gotten the nr70v if they were both out at the same time.
RE: Virtual stylus
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:40:43 AM #
This new model will implement the much anticipated virtual stylus (neural control) instead of using any hard-buttons.

-Peng Lord

RE: False Hope
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:34:37 AM #
What if this IS a real unit and it will really be devoid of any external buttons but the power buton and the jog dial?

The optional clip-on "gamepad" will be available for those that want to play games...but for most users, Sony might have figured that the hard buttons would not be missed. Hmmmm....

RE: False Hope
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:52:49 AM #
>The optional clip-on "gamepad" will be available for
>those that want to play games...but for most users,
>Sony might have figured that the hard buttons would
>not be missed. Hmmmm....

I strongly agree. The functionality that both the jog dial and virtual graffiti area possess should more than make up for the missing hardware buttons.

RE: False Hope
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 1:04:58 PM #
It seems more reasonable to consider the picture a mistake by the artist/web designer. BUT If there was such a device I would certainly buy it! Sony are you reading this? There is a big demand for virtual graphiti and once you take that step then it also becomes clear that there is no real need for the buttons either. The jog dial does duty as the up/down buttons and the others can be virtual buttons as far as I care. The buttons could even be on the side. If Sony did some thinking outside the box of standard palm layout they could put out an awesome device that would dominate the market.
No doubt
cyn @ 7/29/2002 1:15:18 PM #
I have a T415 - there's no doubt in my mind that someone just gave the artist the wrong screencap - because the bottom metal bar (the thin buttons have dark brushed metal bars above and below them) still even has the down arrow, which is there for the.... yes .... thats right, the hardware scroll buttons that *would* be immediately above it.

If this were a new model that they accidentally leaked, there would be no reason for it to still have the metal bar - it would look cleanest and be just as functional with minimal space used... screen, case surrounding it, power button.

Still - man would I love this device [with or without unneccessary metal bar :) ].

RE: False Hope
Galley_SimRacer @ 7/29/2002 1:34:13 PM #
I could certainly live without hardware buttons, when there are apps such as NR Buttons. I love my NR70, but a T-series Clie with virtual graffiti probably would've gotten my money before the NR70.

"Life is what you experience between racing games"
RE: False Hope
Dan Harkless @ 8/6/2002 3:51:39 AM #
"It seems more reasonable to consider the picture a mistake by the artist/web designer."

Yup, especially since the picture has been fixed as of "July 29, 2002 6:14:07 PM GMT" according to Netscape's Page Info (always annoys me that crappy IE doesn't have this feature -- Properties gives you the completely worthless date/time the file was written to your cache).

"There is a big demand for virtual graphiti and once you take that step then it also becomes clear that there is no real need for the buttons either."

Nah, there's always a need for at least a hardware power button, and getting rid of the other buttons really sucks if you like to play games on your handheld. I don't think a device that was incapable of playing most games would "dominate the market".

This is the One

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:43:33 AM #
This is the unit I would buy...

If it were true that it had virtual graffiti

If it was OS 5..make that OS 6

If it ran on 400 mhz Xscale

If it had at least 256 mb RAM, 64 mb Flash

If the screen also acted as a solar recharger

If it had a Universal slot for MS, SD/MMC, and CF

If it was free after rebates

Just my .02 cents

RE: This is the One
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:25:39 AM #

right.... why not stick a time machine in there for good measure! Unless you want to spend $1500 on a PDA.. you'd better get comfy while you wait...
RE: This is the One
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:43:29 AM #
Oh yeah, and a time machine and a GPS :) Just kidding
RE: This is the One
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 4:17:34 PM #
...Seeing as how we are unfamiliar with sarcasm...

-The comic book guy

RE: This is the One
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 12:51:36 AM #
you better go and buy PC computer :-)


I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:40:19 AM #
>However, this is more likely a mistake made by a
>graphic artist than a hint of Sony's plans for the

So, Ed, basically _you_ are starting the rumor and dispelling it at the same time? Have you thought about a career in politics? :)

RE: Huh?
Ed @ 7/29/2002 10:15:07 AM #
I didn't start it. I had several people send me tips on this and saw it on at least one discussion board over the weekend. Several people were taking this picture as clear proof that Sony was working on this exact model and some of the PR images were accidently used for the T665C. I used to work in a marketing department with people who were creating ads and such for products they knew almost nothing about so I know how easy it is to make mistakes like this. So I wanted to point out that this could be evidence that Sony is working on a T-series model with virtual Graffiti, but not proof.

News Editor
RE: Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:00:33 AM #
Nothing is by accident here ;-) Not the release of the OSLO picture, nor the "mistaken" Sony T picture. In a down market people are still spending on PDAs and the marketing and sales gurus are using these discussion boards as tools to create hype and push product. BTW there's nothing wrong with it as long we have our eyes open :-)
RE: Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 3:06:46 PM #
I think it's just a mistake. Look at it you can still see the 'down arrow' symbol that would sit below the scroll nubbin. I think sony just put this out thinking that no one would care that it's the wrong picture. Quit debating.

Not sure this explaination works

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:05:40 AM #
While I understand Ed's point, I don't think it's that simple. And the lack of buttons, mentioned above--although confusing--actually suggests to me that this might be a real model.

A graphic artist, when combining images to produce the virtual tour photo, would be working with an actual photograph of the device and the screen capture. The proportions of a screen capture from the correct device (T665) would be correct for simple placement over top of the blank screen on the photograph. In other words, the screen capture would be square and the space to fill would be square. However, the 320x480 resolution of a screen capture from a virtual grafiti device would mean that the graphic artist would have to cover a portion of the device photograph (the section with the buttons), then work pretty hard to blend the edges so that the result looked natural.

This may not mean that a virtual grafiti T-series Clie exists, but I think it is unlikely that this is a case of a simple "mistake," since the process itself would really not be that simple.

RE: Not sure this explaination works
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:38:21 AM #
The image is of a different screen pasted on a 615 or 655. If you look below the virtual graffiti area you will see an arrow in the middle. This is on part of the plate that contains the buttons on a 615 or 655.
Artists Fault
tpipher @ 7/29/2002 11:16:58 AM #
I saved the image and blew it up, you can clearly see that this is a artist at work and not real as you see a line down the far left side where the image does not cover compleatly. DARN IT! Was wanting this thing bad!

RE: Not sure this explaination works
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:25:52 AM #
I agree that this is a cut and paste job. All I'm saying is that this was not done purely "by accident." It may have been put on the T665 virtual tour accidentally, but the image itself was created intentionally. Whether that means it's just a concept or was done illustrate a device in development is the question.
RE: Not sure this explaination works
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 2:23:34 PM #
"A graphic artist, when combining images to produce the virtual tour photo, would be working with an actual photograph of the device..."

Not necessarily. Photos sometimes are taken of preproduction models.

Sony is real

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:16:32 AM #
I think the Sony unit is real and the screen is not a mistake. Sony knows palm users do love this virtual grafitti area. Cross my fingers.
RE: Sony is real
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:03:36 AM #
I agree! Sony knows this IS what is wanted. Then the only thing left for the perfect Palm is for them to fix the freaking buttons! :-)
I think the unit like that exist =)
mocca @ 7/29/2002 11:52:07 AM #
I don't think it is the mistake from the artists. I understand the process of creating product photos by cut-and-paste as well but the artist won't make the obvious mistake by didn't recognize the different between 320x320 and 320x480 pictures =) At least, I will ask someone first when they want me to cut-and-paste 320x480 picture on the space that is square. I think Sony USA slip and put the wrong picture on T665C product tour.

I believe the real unit like in the picture exist (at least at Sony USA). They might don't want to release it because 1) controvesial of having no hard buttons and 2) it will compete with NR series directly since there are many people want virtual graffiti but slim design of the T series, I for one =)


RE: Sony is real
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 2:21:16 PM #
No HARD BUTTONS?!??!! I need the hard buttons esp for games and to open datebook, todo list, addresses, and memo with the touch of a button WITHOUT having to pull out my stylus and tap at the TINY TINY virtual hardkey buttons.

It is much easier to open a program by hitting one button than the tedious process of pullin out the tiny stylus and having to aim the stylus at the exact virtual hardkey button.

If sony is going to do away with the hardkey buttons, i'm afraid i'm going to have to do away with sony.

I love my Nr70v for EVERYthing except the fact that there are no hardkey buttons in tablet mode. I think sony should have somehow made only one set of hardkey buttons available in BOTH clamshell and tablet mode on the NR70v. They could put these buttons where the hinge is, sorta like how the power button is accessable in both clamshell and tablet mode.

the point is, I (and i believe many other people as well) NEED the hardkey buttons.

RE: Sony is real
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 5:50:00 PM #
"the point is, I (and i believe many other people as well) NEED the hardkey buttons."

I changed my mind, i don't need hardkey buttons.

RE: Sony is real
mad212 @ 7/29/2002 7:21:23 PM #
Why would you paste a picture over the hardware buttons without asking first? you would have to be a real moron to do this. But it does look like a mistake. What i want is a n760 with virtual graffiti. So they can stuff a fat battery to hold juice. maybe a better up and down button, and bluetooth built-in.


4 real world = hard buttons, to show off = virtual buttons
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:40:58 PM #
I prefer real buttons, virtual ones suck, first you have to push POWER, besides real buttons are faster
and you don't have to look at the screen
RE: Sony is real
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 9:23:04 AM #
This from the people that gave us the innovative 'paperwhite' screen? I think I'll just wait and see.

Just fix the buttons

sandbuck @ 7/29/2002 10:31:07 AM #
That's all I ask

RE: Just fix the buttons
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 5:03:21 PM #
Apparently, Sony is incapable of building a Clie with a complete set of adequate buttons.

They must have decided to give up and "go home" so to speak and just avoided the buttons entirely!

Truly awful!

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Just fix the buttons
whiterabbit @ 7/30/2002 3:58:03 AM #
I Love the buttons the the T615c! The Up/Down is great and the 4 app buttons feel very solid.

Just my $.02 of course

Masters of Marketing – Death of PalmInc

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:30:02 AM #
PPC will sit in sofwtare limbo, and PalmOS (not PalmInc) will survive, why?

Sony (and other 3rd party hardware makers) want what all companies want – market share, period. Frankly, I can’t wait for Sony to release a T series 66+mhz with a soft-graffiti area so I can actually use all of the fantasy claims Palm is making about OS5 today and replace my IIIc.

Yes, that’s right I said IIIc – it is the only PDA device that actually works. No I don’t watch movies, view pictures, or read the bible on my PDA. I do project planning, goal setting, read mail with attachments, and get things done (you know, PDA stuff). I’ve owned too many PDAs (Sharp, Apple, PPC, Palm) to mention and have come to the conclusion that software matters and PPC apps will always be tiny versions of PC apps that lack functionality because of the desire to squash a PC app on to a tiny screen.

Given the extreme pace at which Sony is pumping out “new” PDAs I believe a 66mhz T series with a soft-graffiti area already exists because a T series device such as this is nothing more than an NR70 without the flip-casing. So why hasn’t it the market? I believe Sony is waiting just prior to the release of the new OSLO device because it knows there are allot of OSLO dollars waiting to blindly fly out of electronic junkies wallets very soon.

In this chess game Sony is several moves ahead. When the release date for an OS5 device is made you’ll see a flood of 66mhz/hi-res OS4 devices hit the market and kill PalmInc’s OSLO because there will be no more dollars to spend on OSLO. This will kill PalmInc because Palm needs OS5 sales to successful fund the real ARM device to be released sometime in 2003 and it won’t financially be able to make that happen.

What is ironic here is that Palm did the same thing to Apple. Palm introduced the Pilot when Apple decided to make the Newton more PC-like. The Palm was simpler, faster, and user friendly and the rest is history. The same scenario will probably happen to PalmInc as OSLO tries to morph itself into a PC/PPC. The difference is that PalmSource will survive on its license dollars and continue to provide the OS to the marketplace while innovators such as Sony will continue provide the hardware. And who knows perhaps a Sony ARM device will happen before 2002, but I do know that PalmInc is currently pinned down by Sony’s checkmate and not even the partnering agreement they currently have will save Palm.

RE: Masters of Marketing – Death of PalmInc
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 10:24:11 PM #
Where on earth is this coming from?

How do you possibly conclude that the market will be "flooded" with OS4 devices AFTER the announcement of an OS5 device?

Umm... have you gone mad? Get your facts straight, at least
abosco @ 7/29/2002 10:44:07 PM #
I see THREE, yes THREE, mistakes from your, umm, essay. Here goes...

1) This model will not be sold. What you see in the picture is a fake. There simply are no buttons on the unit. Who would want to buy a pda with no hardware buttons?

2) The market will definately not be flooded with OS 4.1 devices after the Oslo hits the market. Do you know why? If people are willing to wait since the beginning of the summer of LAST YEAR for an OS 5 device, I don't think when the Oslo hits that they will say, "Well, that Sony looks nice so I'll get that." No they will not, they will snatch up the Oslo like a baby on a highway. If they waited a full year for OS 5.0, they won't just settle for OS 4.1, that's for sure. So no, Palm Inc. will not die. Nor will they for a long time.

3) Sony does not need to make more money to fund their OS 5 device. Sony has to be in the top 50 richest companies in the world, so I don't think they need to fund their OS 5 device. And if they are going that broke that they need to, it will most likely be the death of Sony Inc, but that would be nearly impossible. So no, neither company will die (esp not Sony).

Try to think a little bit. Would people settle for a high end OS 4.1 Sony that costs as much as an OS 5.0 Palm that has more features? Would Sony need funds to support their OS 5 models if they are already loaded with cash? The answer is no. No, Palm will not die, no Sony will likely not release this device, and no, Sony is not poor.

If early to bed, early to rise makes you healthy, wealthy, and wise, does going to bed late make you sick, poor, and dumb?

RE: Masters of Marketing – Death of PalmInc
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:09:04 PM #
So, how is your new position at Sony working out for you?
RE: Masters of Marketing ?Death of PalmInc
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:37:59 PM #
LoL ... some Anonymous people (from palm Inc.) attacking some people that actually registered to post their opinion ....

Oh well ....

RE: Masters of Marketing – Death of PalmInc
abosco @ 7/30/2002 12:32:18 AM #
"So, how is your new position at Sony working out for you?"

You don't need to work at Sonystyle to see simple things like this. Everything I stated was based on logic and marketing, a subject that I actually study in school.

As a side note, I'm interested as to where you put your award for "Smartass of the Year". Did you put it on top of the fireplace or did you just hang it up on the wall?

Quick question for ya if you are the original guy who posted the above essay: What makes you think the market will be flooded with OS 4.1 devices? Just give me a few reasons why they would as I gave you a few reasons why Sony wouldn't.

If early to bed, early to rise makes you healthy, wealthy, and wise, does going to bed late make you sick, poor, and dumb?

RE: Masters of Marketing – Death of PalmInc
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 9:19:10 AM #
Thank you. You have now made your quota for biased posts at PIC. You can go home now without losing your job.

Side Buttons

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:10:51 AM #
This is more than a photoshop job on the screen. The lack of buttons on the buttom yet the addition of the power button (not on the front of the NR70) tells us the whole front is a different item.
Sure, the whole unit could be a fake, but understand it isn't just mistake on the screen shot insert.
This might be the unit that uses all side buttons. They have always made sense on the pocketPC devices... the one hand theory (no, I don't love PocketPC units, it's just a point about other research on this.) seems to work. Do everything with datebook/memo/etc buttons under your finger tips on the right side and the jog/back items on the thumb (left side).
Hmmm... no left hander support, well non of the current Sony devices are either. Why not continue.
RE: Side Buttons
jpfeiffer @ 7/29/2002 11:23:56 AM #

The picture is a combination of the SCREEN from the NR70 and the BODY of the 615/665.

For those of you not familiar with the 615/665 case, the power button (and the small arrow just below the center of the virtual graffiti area) are exactly where they are on the 615/665.

And this is indeed a simple image to produce, considering that the non-metallic portions of the 615/665 case is proportional to the NR70's screen.

RE: Side Buttons
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 12:16:08 PM #
Then you are saying this is not an accident wrong screen shot on the 665 body?! They took the time to accidently past the screenshot over the date/memo/etc buttons too. Nah, that doesn't hold water. If this came from a xyz web site I would beleive it, but that is not an accident when it comes from the manufacture that way.
RE: Side Buttons
midnight @ 7/30/2002 1:10:26 AM #
well, sonystyle usa has made mistakes with their pictures before. when the t665 first came out, it showed pictures with the remote wand, which isn't supported on the thing.

Concept not picture is real ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:30:02 AM #
If you download the pic and zoom in on it you’ll see clearly under the pic the 665 hardware-plate that houses the buttons. Also if you go to Sonystyle and look at the remote control pics for the NR70V you’ll see where they copied the graphic.

HOWEVER, I don’t think this was a mistake either. I think Sony knows how easy it would be to take what they already have and make a new Tseries device and they probably just want to elicit some real feedback under the radar.

Stylus ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 9:30:02 AM #
As long as we're discussing the perfect PDA (and I'm sure the Sony guys are monitoring this discussion) - please, please, please provide a device with a larger stylus!
RE: Stylus ...
rsuplido @ 7/29/2002 12:50:34 PM #
The InnoPocket Metal Sylus is now available at Global Source: :)

RE: Stylus ...
terrysalmi @ 7/29/2002 1:08:27 PM #
This isn't a larger stylus though, just heavier!

I wish sony would incorporate the Visor Stylus into their handhelds - that was truly the best stylus size/weight/function I've seen that fits in a silo...

RE: Stylus ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 8:37:12 AM #
"Who would want to buy a pda with no hardware buttons?"

Apparently not you, but everyone else..

Clie stylus is its Achilles heel
drixter @ 7/30/2002 11:33:46 AM #
Couldn't agree more with original post. I've had two Clies - 615 and NR70V - and the splinter of stylus is without question the worst feature of each. And I haven't adjusted - it still seems just as insubstantial, and annoying, as ever. I even shelled out extra bucks for the heavier all-metal Innopocket stylus -- it's a bit better, but not satisfying in the end.

It baffles me - Sony goes all out and creates fantastic machines, then saddles them with cheap, too-small styli that are a constant annoyance. And KEEPS the crap stylus on successive models! How could they be so smart with the hard stuff - the machine - and so dumb with the easy stuff?!

A Clue

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:31:26 AM #
Since most of the other screen shots in the rest of the product tour have a different looking graffiti area (the same non-virtual style) than this one shot, I'd say that some artist did indeed screw-up.

I would think this would be a big clue...

Before the ppc trolls turn up

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:43:56 AM #
I have a question:
Why are they here? on a PALM site. Claiming it is biased towards palm, well dur.
Are they ust causing trouble? Do palm users do it on ppc sites?
RE: Before the ppc trolls turn up
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 12:19:01 AM #
Get a life buddy... we're here! Hahahahahaha

Star Trek Data Pad

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 4:29:06 PM #
Reminds me of a Star Trek Data pad.
Eventually pdas will be like that and a 665 with virtual graffiti is the start!

Then thinner!


I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2002 11:54:18 PM #
But then you also need to develop ultra-thin high power batteries for it too.....So Keep working
The fake picture has been changed to a T665C
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 10:39:16 AM #
The fake picture has been changed to a T665C. Sony must have realzed their mess-up!

The fake picture has been changed to a T665C.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 10:44:37 AM #
The fake picture has been changed to a T665C. Sony must have realized their mess-up!


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