Comments on: Rumor: Info on Low-End Sony and Palm Devices
According to a separate source, Palm will release a new low-end model in October. No other details on this model are currently available.
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RE: OS 5?
RE: OS 5?
RE: OS 5?
If you've done some research before, you should have known that Palm buy back some technology (such as WAP, etc.) from HandSpring so that Palm can add it into their PalmOS 4 devices.
RE: OS 5?
RE: OS 5?
----------------------------------------
As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!
RE: OS 5?
RE: OS 5
NOT new model from Palm....
According to this "rumor", I don't think Palm is likely to release a new model..
Well, the model number will be new, of course. But it might be some upgrade on exsiting models, m100 series.
I feel very bad about Palm on this, m100 series is on the market for more than 2 years, what change / innovation we saw in this series in two years????
Why don't they toss this and have a real "new model"?
RE: NOT new model from Palm.... - who cares?
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
______________________________________
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
-Hubert Humphrey
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
p.s. Despite my defense of the m100 design, I wouldn't be surprised if Palm changed it if they can find a better way to do the same thing.
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
And why do we expect "innovation" in a low-end model anyway? The innovation we see here is usually the incorporation of features already in more expensive models. People buying the low end models want something to do the standard PIM stuff, and that's what they get.
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
Depends on what you want it for... I'm sure my 12 year old daughter would freak if I gave her an NR70v. That is, until her little brother played catch with it, or until it bounced down the stairs, or until it was left in a car that was so hot the rearview mirror mount melted. Her current device has been through all of the above and more. The only thing that could kill it was being thrown 15 feet onto concrete. $50 for a new screen and she was back in business. My son's Palm has been dropped several times, and dropped into the toilet twice (please, no comments about "that's where it belongs" :). It came back after disassembly and drying.
Yes, the screen is not my favorite either, but the basic Palms have to live in situations that mean death to many handhelds. The screen is even better than some Sony B&W handhelds, none of which are as durable. Anyone want to do a drop test? A Rubicon edition Jeep is not the most attractive vehicle in the world, unless you are on a mountain firetrail.
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
The combination of memory card slot and limited memory would spur purchases of Palm-branded SD cards and other SD cards with preinstalled apps. Remember, MS, Sony, and Nintendo can afford to sell their game systems at a loss because they make up for it in profits on the game cartridges. Obviously, the analogy isn't perfect, but there's still some profit to be gained there even in the handheld world.
Scott
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
1. small screen
2 POOR backlight!
I had a Palm m105 and very disppointed on this, I can not see much difference between ligh on and light off. I also can not stand for the small viewing area.
I got mine on 2/11/01 and sold it on 2/20/01, got another Clie S300 and I'm very happy with it! Paid only $40 more and I got a larger screen, much better backlight and expansion slot !!
I am so surprised that Palm is still selling m105 at this time.
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
I don't understand why Sony has been the only player to have hi-res units. (Having never seen a Handera device I don't consider it successful. I was even considering it before buying my 615 but could never find one to test drive.)
However I also don't understand why Sony or Palm haven't released a 'cell-phone' model. Well maybe just Sony. They've proven to be bolder than Palm at releasing new units.
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
This might just have a *little bit* to do with why Palm is splitting into two companies, don't you think?
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
This would be great but 90%+ of Palm revenue comes from the Hardware side. Do you know what that would do to Earnings??????? There is a little group called SHAREHOLDERS that want some value.
RE: NOT new model from Palm....
BTW, If you can't see the screen, GET GLASSES!
----------------------------------------
As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!
We can milk a new form factor for 4 or 5 years...
Palm x100 (or whatever). 40mhz ARM processor. 2 meg of memory. Crappy screen.
6 months later:
Palm x105 (or whatever). 40mhz ARM processor. 8 meg of memory. Crappy screen.
6 months later:
Palm x130 (or whatever). 66mhz ARM processor. New connector. 8 meg of memory. Crappy color screen.
6 months later:
Palm x130SE. 66mhz ARM processor. New connector. 8 meg of memory. Crappy color screen. Special Wayne Newton edition in *blue*.
and so on...
I think you guys are missing the vast possibilities that a new form factor gives Palm. Heck - for only several million dollars in R&D, they probably did something *really* revolutionary with this model, like changing the picture on memo button...
[grin]
I'm sarcastic I know. But Sony will own Palm in 6 months, and then the REAL competition begins...
Shut up
Try and understand that the m100 series models were one of the most successful pdas. How do these companies stay afloat? Releasing low end models, and that is what the m100 series is.
If Palm can do that again with a new set of models then all the more power to them. They will be able to get back on their feet in no time.
_______________________________________
So how's that nice girlfriend of yours?
Oh she got hit by a car, she's dead.
Shut up
RE: We can milk a new form factor for 4 or 5 years...
Palm should simply make disposable PDAs -- throw them away once the battery dies and get another 2 for $50 bulk pack at Sam's Club.
RE: We can milk a new form factor for 4 or 5 years...
Sony should do the same thing. Oh wait, that means you'd have to buy several to make it through the week.
RE: We can milk a new form factor for 4 or 5 years...
Sony NR70v = $600
Palm can EASILY sell six m100s by the time Sony sells one NR70v. So if you think about it, they are making the same amount of money and Palm is grabbing more marketshare (but that is only saying that Palm sold 6 m100s before Sony sold 1 NR, which is just rediculous considering Palm can sell 20 m100's before Sony sells 1 NR). It all depends on the production cost of the model. Whoever overcharges the most, in this instance it's Palm, gets the most money. So yes, Palm IS making a lot more money off their low end models than any other. And I didn't even get into the people who want more memory with the m105, or expansion with the m125, or even cheap color with the m130.
I'm American! I park on a driveway and drive on a parkway!
RE: We can milk a new form factor for 4 or 5 years...
RE: We can milk a new form factor for 4 or 5 years...
I'm American! I park on a driveway and drive on a parkway!
You can make more money on markup than on volume...
If this IS true as a general axiom, please explain why Wal*Mart is making so much money? They sure don't seem to be doing it on markup.
Profit on markup may be higher, but profit on volume grows quicker.See 'Dollar General' or any discount chain.
That having been said, I bought a m105 as a present for my girlfriend a while back (after she'd dropped the PPPro that I'd lent her, and wiped it out for the sixth or eighth time.) She's tickled - Mainly because she dosen't worry so much about breaking it now.
$300 for the SJ30 is ridiculous...
RE: $300 for the SJ30 is ridiculous...
It's all in the manufacturing, man!
The guy who started this thread is missing the point.
The SJ30 is, for all intents & purposes, the same as the 615c. Sony isn't making money on the 615c at a price point of $300, because it costs too much to make.
That is why they are switching to the SJ30. It will cost less to make, and they will eventually be able to offer it at prices around $200....maybe even less....in the not-to-distant future.
It's the same reasoning that went behind the demise of the superior Palm IIIxe.
I'll make up these numbers so that it makes sense:
If it costs $90 to make a IIIxe, and you're selling it at $200, you're making an alright profit.
When the market changes & you're forced to sell it for $100, the profit margin is no longer acceptable.
The m100 and m105 have equal (as perceived by the average consumer...not us..of course!) value, yet the m105 may only cost $45 dollars to produce.
Thus, when the market dictates that a unit of that power be sold as low as $100, or even $75, you're still turning out a nice profit.
Those are bogus numbers, for sure, but you get the point.
I hope.
Models like this are OUTSTANDING for the PDA market. When the SJ30 comes down in price, everybody and their mom will have one of these, which pushes everything in the technology curve upward.
New & better software, more peripherals....more EVERYTHING that will make the Palm marketplace a better environment.
RE: $300 for the SJ30 is ridiculous...
This is really the front edge foam of a tidal wave.
NO PROFIT MARGINS
RE: NO PROFIT MARGINS
RE: NO PROFIT MARGINS
RE: NO PROFIT MARGINS
Learn
That is why they are switching to the SJ30. It will cost less to make, and they will eventually be able to offer it at prices around $200....maybe even less....in the not-to-distant future.
It's the same reasoning that went behind the demise of the superior Palm IIIxe.
I'll make up these numbers so that it makes sense:
If it costs $90 to make a IIIxe, and you're selling it at $200, you're making an alright profit.
When the market changes & you're forced to sell it for $100, the profit margin is no longer acceptable.
The m100 and m105 have equal (as perceived by the average consumer...not us..of course!) value, yet the m105 may only cost $45 dollars to produce.
Thus, when the market dictates that a unit of that power be sold as low as $100, or even $75, you're still turning out a nice profit.
Those are bogus numbers, for sure, but you get the point.
I hope.
Models like this are OUTSTANDING for the PDA market. When the SJ30 comes down in price, everybody and their mom will have one of these, which pushes everything in the technology curve upward.
New & better software, more peripherals....more EVERYTHING that will make the Palm marketplace a better environment.
RE: NO PROFIT MARGINS
Dell is the most profitable PC manufactuer because they have the lowest cost to manufacture. And now (with Acer) they're entering the PDA market.
A low end PDA forces Palm to keep manufacturing costs low, and this will transfer over to more profit for the higher end models also. If they just go with high end models, there isn't as much incentive to force the manufacturing cost as low as possible (see HP/Compaq).
(Focusing on the mid to high end can actually create a feedback effect when other companies undercut you. Soon you can be forced out of the mid-range when low end devices become powerful enough, and forced into a shrinking niche of the high end market as low cost devices become more and more powerful. You'll have great profit margins for a few years, and then sales will plument.)
Todd.
ok
and i hope itīs hard
im a m100 sucker - and i can say that itīs plastic is broken and torn - BUT - it works
m100 is thee - pda hog
say thAT it sucks - but it ticks
itīs like a drummachine compared to a laptop
m105 is stronger ?
10Wtech
Why Doesn't Anyone Understand This?
FACT: the low end market is always going to have infinitely more customers. Average Joe doesn't want another PC, he hates computers, he wants a organizer.
If WinCE devices had been inexpensive, they would have wiped palm of the face of the earth.
NR70 and such devices have a small niche market. Nobody really needs a camera for a productivity device. It is only us geeks buying these devices. Palm is successful because they realized that an organizer has lots of market potential, where as a PC in your Pocket is out of reach for most, and unwanted by many more.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 13yrs Old, Flat Broke
Odds of ever affording a palm without resorting to crime: 1765:1
RE: Why Doesn't Anyone Understand This?
Bottom line is that PDA's will become more complex BUT more elegant and much easier to use (ie perfect voice recognition/audio/video, etc.). They will become so easy to use that in the future that 3 year olds and 98 year olds will use them en masse.
RE: Why Doesn't Anyone Understand This?
RE: Why Doesn't Anyone Understand This?
Bottom line is that PDA's will become more complex BUT more elegant and much easier to use (ie perfect voice recognition/audio/video, etc.). They will become so easy to use that in the future that 3 year olds and 98 year olds will use them en masse.
"
Oh, i agree. I was just pointing out that while people complain about the m100, it is these devices which will really bring PDAs into the
mainstream. Ultimately, most people don't want/need:
Hi Res
Camera
MP3
etc. etc.
It just annoys me when people snub these devices. Not everyone can afford $1000 (AUSD) on a device, where all they want is an organizer...
I got a bit worked up tho' :)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 13yrs Old, Flat Broke
Odds of ever affording a palm without resorting to crime: 1765:1
RE: Why Doesn't Anyone Understand This?
Regarding Sony's high-res screen: even though it might be true that most people in the United States do not need high resolution, in order to display Asian languages with good readability, the so-called "high" resolution suddenly becomes "entry-level" resolution. Hence I can understand that the T415 screen, which was considered worse than crap here, can actually be far more preferrable to a Palm 500 screen in Asia.
Money In The Low End
I predict the announcement will happen around September 7th as the rebate special on the m125 ends on the 6th.
Expect what Palm has already eluded to...
1. A sub $100 unit as the Palm boss has told us (starting on 6/11.)
2. A "communicator" wireless model (out on November 1st based on the i705 rebate expiration on 10/31.)
3. A player to be named later unit.
Whatever comes out need to be in place for the Christmas selling season, so, it will need to be shipping in October at the latest.
Microsoft is releasing it's Tablet PC OS the first week of November so Palm will want to stay clear of that I would think.
Finally, with the stock debacle that has unwound itself in the last week, Palm needs to get the stock holders happy quick -- before their October meeting where they try to reverse the value "problem" they have.
Sony Clie SJ20 & 30
The launch date will be the 23 August.
Organiser King (www.organiserking.com)will have stock on the release date.
Prices will be A$549 including 10% tax(US$290)
A$749 inc 10% tax (US$395)
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OS 5?